Product Heirachy

[Shaz]

Hi Guys,

Im a basketball guy slowly getting into Soccer cards - I have no idea where to start so slowly reading the threads to get my head around how it works on this side of the fence.

I had a couple of questions - first roughly how are products like, Select/Prizm, Flawless, Topps Chrome, Topps Stadium Club, etc rank?

Also in terms of player values - in what order does Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe and Haaland rank and what x the value? For example, in basketball MJ is king and Kobe and LBJ are valued around 3/4 times less than MJ and valued around the same price as each other.

Hoping this is not too much of a noob question.

[Skattered888]

Flawless and eminence are the ultra high end. There has only been 1release of flawless and that was back in 2016. Those cards along with 2 eminence releases are the ones that commands the most as a set.

Then comes prizm world cup 2014. The first ever “premium release” of a soccer set. Highly sought after due to obvious reasons.

When it comes to yearly release products, chrome is king imo. Followed by prizm EPL, and maybe merlin. But yeah, hands down, for ROI wise, chrome. Specifically chrome UEFA competition.

When it comes to value, at current market, i believe the order should be Messi, Halland, Mbappe, and CR7.

Messi still coming frm his WC success and how well he’s doing in miami at the moment, halland at the back of man city treble, and mbappe being relatively new to card world. CR7 unfortunately has dropped abit since his move to Saudi.

Off course all these are related to the set and kit. Eg: CR7 in real jersey would worth a whole lot more $$ compared to his juventus ones. Messis barcelona kit will command more compared to his psg ones, etc.

Special things to look out, Messi in Miami kit next year if miami ended getting into the finals. Topps is releasing Dynasty champions league, that would be big.

[YayNJ]

mbappe being relatively new to card world.

what?

Mbappe has had cards for the last seven years, that's twice as long as the average career length of an NFL player, and more than twice the average career of a player in MLB! :D

[Shaz]

This is awesome and a great start for me to start researching more.

I love the look of Eminence but dont like the thickness of the cards.

I knew flawless was huge but didn't realise the release was only for 1 year so that makes sense.

Im an on card auto guy and it's surprising to see how little on card autos there are of the big 4.

[panenkacards]

Roughly in my view:

On the Panini side:
- Eminence/Flawless
- Impeccable/Immaculate/National Treasures
- Prizm World Cup
- Select / League-specific Prizm (EPL only league with Prizm right now, Serie A and La Liga get Prizm via Chronicles)
- Obsidian / Donruss (Optic is in Donruss for soccer)
- Chronicles
- Score / Elite

On the Topps side:
- Chrome UEFA / Sapphire UEFA
- Merlin Chrome
- Museum (not a lot of love for this, Dynasty should be a significant improvement) / Inception
- Finest UEFA / Stadium Club Chrome UEFA / League-specific Chrome (right now only Bundesliga, had Premier League in the past) / team-specific Chrome (PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Salzburg, Atletico Madrid, etc. have had these)
- League-specific Finest (Bundesliga only) / random sets (Deco, Simplicidad, Knockout, Gold, etc.)
- Flagship
- Flagship subsets (Japan, Carnaval, Jade, 1st Edition, etc.) / team sets

Definitely wouldn't put Mbappe or Haaland above CR7 as far as values go. It's Messi by a significant amount (since WC win), then CR7, then Haaland and Mbappe.

[kingb22]

Roughly in my view:

On the Panini side:
- Eminence/Flawless
- Impeccable/Immaculate/National Treasures
- Prizm World Cup
- Select / League-specific Prizm (EPL only league with Prizm right now, Serie A and La Liga get Prizm via Chronicles)
- Obsidian / Donruss (Optic is in Donruss for soccer)
- Chronicles
- Score / Elite

On the Topps side:
- Chrome UEFA / Sapphire UEFA
- Merlin Chrome
- Museum (not a lot of love for this, Dynasty should be a significant improvement) / Inception
- Finest UEFA / Stadium Club Chrome UEFA / League-specific Chrome (right now only Bundesliga, had Premier League in the past) / team-specific Chrome (PSG, Juventus, Bayern, Salzburg, Atletico Madrid, etc. have had these)
- League-specific Finest (Bundesliga only) / random sets (Deco, Simplicidad, Knockout, Gold, etc.)
- Flagship
- Flagship subsets (Japan, Carnaval, Jade, 1st Edition, etc.) / team sets

Definitely wouldn't put Mbappe or Haaland above CR7 as far as values go. It's Messi by a significant amount (since WC win), then CR7, then Haaland and Mbappe.

I would agree with most of this. However, some of the sets lower down on the list can provide something fairly unique to soccer - the "unicorn" rookie cards. For example, Darwin Nunez (Liverpool) ONLY had Obisidian as his rookie card (195 base cards, and maybe another 200 parallels). Bukayo Saka had Impeccable (Metal rookie subset), Imac base, and Chronicles Pitch Kings subset - a total of maybe 300 rookie cards (plus a sticker - different topic :) ). So in rookie cards, player trumps set if they are very limited. Otherwise the above list makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, the cases of these unicorn cards are going down since every league has sets now, Topps expanded to all UEFA club competitions, etc.

[mfw13]

Hi Guys,

Im a basketball guy slowly getting into Soccer cards - I have no idea where to start so slowly reading the threads to get my head around how it works on this side of the fence.

Are you only interested in current products featuring active players?

Or are you also interested in older products featuring retired all-time greats?

With regard to current products, the only stuff that isn't grossly overpriced is Topps UEFA Champions League/Club Competitions.

However, there are a lot of older products, especially from the 90's, that are reasonably priced and fun to rip and offer a lot of cards of all-time greats.

[panenkacards]

I would agree with most of this. However, some of the sets lower down on the list can provide something fairly unique to soccer - the "unicorn" rookie cards. For example, Darwin Nunez (Liverpool) ONLY had Obisidian as his rookie card (195 base cards, and maybe another 200 parallels). Bukayo Saka had Impeccable (Metal rookie subset), Imac base, and Chronicles Pitch Kings subset - a total of maybe 300 rookie cards (plus a sticker - different topic :) ). So in rookie cards, player trumps set if they are very limited. Otherwise the above list makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, the cases of these unicorn cards are going down since every league has sets now, Topps expanded to all UEFA club competitions, etc.

Yeah, I was speaking set-wide. But the checklist variation is definitely part of why people like Merlin Chrome - tends to have some different rookies who don't make it in other sets. To your point though, that may be a thing of the past now that Topps is doing UCC for Topps Chrome as opposed to just UCL.

[YayNJ]

2018 Eminence is probably the best modern set, but out of reach for most collectors.

Nobility is my all time accessible set, however it's starting to go the way of Panini Treble and the cool kids have decided it's ultra cool and the prices have shot up.

[Shaz]

Only interested in Messi, Haaland, Mbappe and Ronaldo so none of the older guys.

Another quick question - where does say a Chrome Red Refractor /5 or /10 sit versus a Select Gold /10? Is one valued more than the other?

[Skattered888]

what?

Mbappe has had cards for the last seven years, that's twice as long as the average career length of an NFL player, and more than twice the average career of a player in MLB! :D

You know, i was talking about how he only started signing last year with the psg set, but sure.

[Skattered888]

Only interested in Messi, Haaland, Mbappe and Ronaldo so none of the older guys.

Another quick question - where does say a Chrome Red Refractor /5 or /10 sit versus a Select Gold /10? Is one valued more than the other?

Chrome 100%. Select is up there, but chrome is king for mid range products.

If you are only after on card/match worn, then your option is fairly limited. 2016-2019 flawless/eminence/nat treasures/immaculate are on card and match/player worn for the most part.

After that though, its a hit and miss, each of those set i mentioned earlier still have some on card auto/match worn after 2019, but majority now are sticker/non associated (except 2022 eminence obviously).

You can also find match worn stuff on select and museum but those are also few and far in between

There are also other on card stuff for clubs exclusive sets (PSG, dortmund, liverpool sets etc) but they are mad expensive, and some impeccable EPL also have on card.

[YayNJ]

You know, i was talking about how he only started signing last year with the psg set, but sure.

You never made that clear in the slightest.

[GrangerCollectr]

I don't think anyone has brought up 2016 Noir as it is one of my favorite sets with on-card autographs and quite possible the best looking base cards of all soccer sets (all numbered /75). And if you want Topps Chrome Red Refractors.....go 2017 as that set will go down as one of the greatest soccer sets ever made.

[MonsterTruck20]

I don't think anyone has brought up 2016 Noir as it is one of my favorite sets with on-card autographs and quite possible the best looking base cards of all soccer sets (all numbered /75).
2016 Noir is a beautiful set and among my favorites as well.


Definitely wouldn't put Mbappe or Haaland above CR7 as far as values go. It's Messi by a significant amount (since WC win), then CR7, then Haaland and Mbappe.
In the long run, I also don't expect Mbappe or Haaland values to be even close to CR7. And I expect CR7 to slightly close the gap to Messi. These two will forever be intertwined.

[cardbuster]

what?

Mbappe has had cards for the last seven years, that's twice as long as the average career length of an NFL player, and more than twice the average career of a player in MLB! :D

I'm getting the subtle feeling that some people don't know or understand what football really is and the magnitude of the phenomenon worldwide.

[yiguiri2002]

I'm getting the subtle feeling that some people don't know or understand what football really is and the magnitude of the phenomenon worldwide.

Also, the Mbappe equivalents for football and baseball play longer than a decade on average. Mbappe's first cards were in 2017 and because of Ligue 1, wasn't in a lot of sets until 2020.

[mfw13]

In the long run, I also don't expect Mbappe or Haaland values to be even close to CR7.

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team. He's already played in two WC Finals and won one, whereas CR7 never even made it to a WC final, with his best performance being a 4th place finish in 2006.

And there is also the factor that many collectors dislike CR7 because of his arrogant personality.

[MonsterTruck20]

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team. He's already played in two WC Finals and won one, whereas CR7 never even made it to a WC final, with his best performance being a 4th place finish in 2006.

And there is also the factor that many collectors dislike CR7 because of his arrogant personality.

Nobody expects Portugal to reach a World Cup final. They had only qualified for three World Cups before CR7 made his debut. 4th place was a massive achievement for such a small country. As was winning the Euro in 2016, their first major trophy.

Imo, for Mbappe to surpass CR7 values, he would need to:
- Finally get out of his comfort zone and move to a major European club
- Win 3-5 Champions League titles
- Win 3-5 Ballon d'Ors
- Break a lot of records on the way
- Become a major brand

[YayNJ]

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team.

Nope.

[panenkacards]

I think Mbappe could easily surpass CR7 due to his success with the French National Team. He's already played in two WC Finals and won one, whereas CR7 never even made it to a WC final, with his best performance being a 4th place finish in 2006.

And there is also the factor that many collectors dislike CR7 because of his arrogant personality.

There's nothing easy about the amount of titles and stats Mbappe would have to rack up to surpass Cristiano Ronaldo. Ronaldo had already won a Champions League and Ballon d'Or at Mbappe's age and this was right as he stepped foot in Madrid, with 12 legendary years of European success yet to come.

If collectors don't like CR7's personality, they won't like Mbappe's. And who knows if Mbappe will be able to transform his playstyle the way Ronaldo did multiple times to stay on top of the game.

[Ianhatcher]

This has been discussed ad nauseam but CR7's personality perception is purely media driven to prop up Messi and make him seem like some humble guy and feed the rivalry.

Imagine if CR7 did the things Zlatan did. They would lose their minds if he had taken out an ad announcing he was here and you are welcome or sent Lebron his jersey back signed. Probably would have called him a racist for that one.

[YayNJ]

all the nice fellas offer people $375,000 settlements and forced NDA's after totally consensual sex

[MonsterTruck20]

all the nice fellas offer people $375,000 settlements and forced NDA's after totally consensual sex

It's mostly rich fellas. Not all of them are nice. Some are. The woman in this case was not forced to accept the money. But she did.

Not the first celebrity who paid dearly for bedding the wrong gal. And certainly not the last one.

[YayNJ]

What a guy!

[Ianhatcher]

You mean the case where he won $335,000 from her lawyer and the judge threw her claims out as she tried to get more money out of him? Yeah, left that part out didn't you?

Never said he was a nice guy but if you think she wasn't after anything other than money you are more naive than I thought you were. Or more likely you are just angry because your pitiful joke of a club Leeds is stuck in the EFL so looking for another fight.

Hope you are enjoying the mid-table of the EFL.

Any players get hurt this weekend that you want to celebrate about while you are at it?

[YayNJ]

https://i.imgflip.com/812e4f.jpg

[yiguiri2002]

Would Mbappe pass CR7? Long shot but it's not impossible. His country achievements could end up being out of this world (all-time WC goalscorer, multiple WC titles, Euro title). He's gonna fall short on club achievements but if he wins a couple of Ballon D'Ors and UCL titles, gap will shrink.

His prices? Not a chance. He's gonna have way more cards than CR7. Just 5 more years at this level of production would do it. Can't imagine a decade and that's without even thinking about him moving to a league that have their own releases.

[YayNJ]

all-time WC goalscorer

What's that done for Klose cards?

Does anyone collect Klose cards? It seems like it should be a real marker, but does it ever come into conversation regarding Klose, or even Fontaine and real Ronaldo?

[GrangerCollectr]

What's that done for Klose cards?

Does anyone collect Klose cards? It seems like it should be a real marker, but does it ever come into conversation regarding Klose, or even Fontaine and real Ronaldo?

In all of the card shows I've done over the years and being noted as the "soccer guy" here in Indy.....I've never had anyone ask for a Miroslav Klose card. It's always Messi, CR7, Haaland, Mbappe and the occasional Pele, Maradona, Neymar, Jude, De Bruyne or Vini Jr. It's sad that many of the greatest footballers of all time never get asked for here in the states (thus why I continue to pick up vintage soccer in high grade).

Anyways....back to the best sets out there. I will say kudos to Topps for adding more of the legends into their products. This is helping all the young collectors learn about the history of the sport and that there are more amazing players out there other than Kai Havertz and Mason Mount :coffee:

[MonsterTruck20]

In all of the card shows I've done over the years and being noted as the "soccer guy" here in Indy.....I've never had anyone ask for a Miroslav Klose card. It's always Messi, CR7, Haaland, Mbappe and the occasional Pele, Maradona, Neymar, Jude, De Bruyne or Vini Jr. It's sad that many of the greatest footballers of all time never get asked for here in the states (thus why I continue to pick up vintage soccer in high grade).

It just shows that national team success does only so much. Klose was a fantastic finisher for the German national team but his club career was above average at best.

A great club career is more important nowadays. That's where you can see if a player can consistently deliver at the highest level week in, week out. A great national team career or even a title, that's the cherry on top.

[Gin&Juice]

Klose also played the bulk of his club career at clubs that have no following outside of the local, core fan base. He was largely invisible to the average follower between World Cups and does not have the aura to interest younger collectors that have never even heard of Kaiserslautern and think of Werder Bremen as a bottom of the table team (if at all).

That being said, his cards actually sell pretty well because he doesn't have too many and there are some committed followers who do value his quality.

[fadster]

The hobby sweet spot is players who get you to watch games and make you go wow, whilst coming up with end product / silverware on a regular basis. Klose might be the latter but was never the former. I am actually sometimes surprised by how well his nicer Germany cards sell.

[yiguiri2002]

What's that done for Klose cards?

Does anyone collect Klose cards? It seems like it should be a real marker, but does it ever come into conversation regarding Klose, or even Fontaine and real Ronaldo?

Klose's peak was short, neve considered a Top 10 player in the world (or barely) and the main reason he became the all-time goalscorer was consistency. Doesn't get much of a following.

That being said, there's a reason his cheapest Germany autos go for $30 while the club ones can be had in the mid to low 20s. Without the record, I doubt he'll go for anything over 15.

[yiguiri2002]

Klose also played the bulk of his club career at clubs that have no following outside of the local, core fan base. He was largely invisible to the average follower between World Cups and does not have the aura to interest younger collectors that have never even heard of Kaiserslautern and think of Werder Bremen as a bottom of the table team (if at all).

That being said, his cards actually sell pretty well because he doesn't have too many and there are some committed followers who do value his quality.

I pulled his auto from a Euro Mosaic blaster and it went straight to my PC. Don't plan to sell it or trade it.

He's one of those guys that hardcore soccer collectors might not be crazy about but will keep cards/autos of.

[tupacgr13]

Germany is usually the national team that have the most antistar players(talking about the last 30 years that I watch them). They perform exceptional as a team. Even players like Michael Ballack, Matthias Sammer, Schweinsteiger, Matthaus, Muller they didn't act like primadonas most of the time. I have some fantastic autos of players like Mehmet Scholl or Joshuah Kimmich, Lucas Podolksi, Philipp Lahm etc. I consider them fantastic players. But they don't have a lot of hype in the hobby world. Its because people from other continents haven't been watching them regularly or not having a deep knowledge of the game. Of course I do not want to insult anyone with this comment its just an observation of mine.