Topps and Panini

[jcp2]

I just started collecting two years ago since i was a kid. I am 48. Will be Panini still be making the same "brands" next year or do you think they are going to lease the football brands to Topps? Do we expect Topps to maintain the brands they have or expand the amount of brands? I actuallly prefer fanatics having all the licenses because they seem to be getting the best signers. Also i know this has happened in the past, do past panini lines go down in value? Sorry if these have been answered or stupid questions.

[SkolVikesCards]

The dates for the changeover seem to be different by sport, but Topps will be getting the full license within the next year and a half or so. Topps will be greatly expanding their amount of products with bowman u line probably still growing and also greatly expanding their NFL stuff probably very similar to baseball products. Unsure what will happen with Panini, I’m sure they’ll still try to stick around as they have in baseball, with the popularity of stuff such as prizm, kabooms and downtowns it’s hard to imagine those completely disappearing

[Fenway55]

I expect Panini to make most of their usual brands next year. That'll be their grand finale though.

IMHO Topps has enough product lines of their own that they don't need to lease/rent/buy any of the trademarked product names from Panini. They can just make up names where needed.

The fact that Topps football - even though unlicensed - had the same design as baseball this year makes me wonder if that is going to be the case going forward.

[Ninotores]

Topps doesn't need Panini lines.
Five Star, Supreme, Chrome, Regular OG "Topps" (was always my favorite), Inception (which is their Origins basically), Finest maybe they bring back triple threads ...I'm sure there's new stuff they will introduce as well. There's so much history there they really don't need Panini.

Panini will certainly go down in value unless they have exclusive deals with players. Which is doubtful.

[49erRCCollector]

Topps doesn't need Panini lines.
Five Star, Supreme, Chrome, Regular OG "Topps" (was always my favorite), Inception (which is their Origins basically), Finest maybe they bring back triple threads ...I'm sure there's new stuff they will introduce as well. There's so much history there they really don't need Panini.

Panini will certainly go down in value unless they have exclusive deals with players. Which is doubtful.

Beyond TC, Finest, none of this brands were coveted. Five Star were OK cards but worthless compared to Exquisite and NT.

Topps doesn’t need Panini, but the loss of legacy sets will sting.

[Scottish Punk]

I also see no reason why Topps would continue with any Panini brands. Topps will create new ones or reproduce the brands of baseball. Basic Topps and Chrome will likely have the same design every year. Topps football could do throwback 35th anniversary stuff in football. That would be cool.

[4barrel]

It breaks my heart that the legendary Rated Rookie logo will be dead.

[marinocollector]

It breaks my heart that the legendary Rated Rookie logo will be dead.

10 years ago, no one thought Topps would come back.

Honestly, with what Fanatics wants and after seeing and knowing the print runs of Panini products, if the hobby takes a down turn (as it may bc all things are cycles) I can see Fanatics paying big for the Panini brands to revitalize sales

[rms13]

I expect Panini to make most of their usual brands next year. That'll be their grand finale though.

IMHO Topps has enough product lines of their own that they don't need to lease/rent/buy any of the trademarked product names from Panini. They can just make up names where needed.

The fact that Topps football - even though unlicensed - had the same design as baseball this year makes me wonder if that is going to be the case going forward.

Panini loses the NFL license on March 31, 2026 and they will probably lose the NFLPA license before that date. So any cards they are making next year will probably be college or USFL or maybe CFL.

I can't imagine Panini is going to sell rights to their brands to Fanatics which they've refused to do over the last couple of years. But it looks like the only valuable license they have left is FIFA and I'm sure Fanatics will come for that as soon as it expires.

I'd imagine Topps will produce all the same brands for NFL that they do for Baseball. That seems to be what they have been doing with UFC and WWE since they got those back from Panini.

[rmw10]

Panini loses the NFL license on March 31, 2026 and they will probably lose the NFLPA license before that date. So any cards they are making next year will probably be college or USFL or maybe CFL.

I can't imagine Panini is going to sell rights to their brands to Fanatics which they've refused to do over the last couple of years. But it looks like the only valuable license they have left is FIFA and I'm sure Fanatics will come for that as soon as it expires.

I'd imagine Topps will produce all the same brands for NFL that they do for Baseball. That seems to be what they have been doing with UFC and WWE since they got those back from Panini.

I believe the NFLPA contract expires in October this year. Would guess Panini will run the presses as much as possible until then. Will probably have enough product to run through their sell-off period, but still leaves a couple of months of weirdness until Fanatics gets both.

[tjforce]

Beyond TC, Finest, none of this brands were coveted. Five Star were OK cards but worthless compared to Exquisite and NT.

Topps doesn’t need Panini, but the loss of legacy sets will sting.

I've been trying to understand the baseball market to prepare, and my observation is that its:

Topps
Topps Chrome
Bowman Chrome
Topps Finest (sort of)

and the rest is a total mess.


Hopefully they turn BC into their version of Contenders, but they have no good RPA option the way Panini has NT or UD had Exquisite.

[rms13]

I believe the NFLPA contract expires in October this year. Would guess Panini will run the presses as much as possible until then. Will probably have enough product to run through their sell-off period, but still leaves a couple of months of weirdness until Fanatics gets both.

The NFLPA tried to terminate the license in August 2023 but it's been held up in the lawsuit that Panini filed against Fanatics. The judge just allowed the lawsuit to continue yesterday. But that license will be gone as soon as the court case is resolved assuming it ends in Fanatics favor.

[rms13]

I've been trying to understand the baseball market to prepare, and my observation is that its:

Topps
Topps Chrome
Bowman Chrome
Topps Finest (sort of)

and the rest is a total mess.


Hopefully they turn BC into their version of Contenders, but they have no good RPA option the way Panini has NT or UD had Exquisite.

Topps Chrome baseball has rookie debut patch autos which are the pinnacle of RPA now. Those are 1/1 on card auto with the rookie debut patch that the player wore in their first MLB game. I'm sure Fanatics will bring that to NFL. I think Topps Definitive and Dynasty are the premium products that have RPAs. Bowman is generally a prospect heavy product so I don't know how well that will translate to football.

But on the baseball side I like to collect retro products like Heritage and Platinum Anniversary. I'm sure Topps will bring those to football. I'm pretty sure they have Heritage football in the past but Platinum is a newer product. Cosmic is another newer product that has been pretty popular since it came out which is crazy space themed designs and lots of inserts. But I'm sure Topps will milk all the same products out of Football that they do in baseball

[hermanotarjeta]

From the production standpoint, it would be much easier for fanatics simply to maintain the same lines for each sport, ie use the same template and designs.

[kipgen]

I've been trying to understand the baseball market to prepare, and my observation is that its:

Topps
Topps Chrome
Bowman Chrome
Topps Finest (sort of)

and the rest is a total mess.


Hopefully they turn BC into their version of Contenders, but they have no good RPA option the way Panini has NT or UD had Exquisite.

Topps Dynasty has been growing in popularity recently as the preeminent RPA option

[tjforce]

Topps Chrome baseball has rookie debut patch autos which are the pinnacle of RPA now. Those are 1/1 on card auto with the rookie debut patch that the player wore in their first MLB game. I'm sure Fanatics will bring that to NFL. I think Topps Definitive and Dynasty are the premium products that have RPAs. Bowman is generally a prospect heavy product so I don't know how well that will translate to football.

But on the baseball side I like to collect retro products like Heritage and Platinum Anniversary. I'm sure Topps will bring those to football. I'm pretty sure they have Heritage football in the past but Platinum is a newer product. Cosmic is another newer product that has been pretty popular since it came out which is crazy space themed designs and lots of inserts. But I'm sure Topps will milk all the same products out of Football that they do in baseball

We're talking about a 1 card per player issue. That really doesn't help anyone but the highest end collector. That card will be cool, but that's about it.

Heritage works in baseball because Topps baseball has a lineage like no other. It wasn't the same in football when they made it, and it still won't be now that they've missed so many key years.

[tjforce]

Topps Dynasty has been growing in popularity recently as the preeminent RPA option

Dynasty's problem is that they make multiple RPAs per player each year.

I was tracking a 2022 rookie today and I counted no less than 6 Topps Dynasty RPAs all with the rookie card logo. I have no idea which one is 'the one' to have, and that matters. I do agree that if they clean that set up, it could be a good RPA set.

[jkampis]

I would predict that Panini will keep some of its most popular lines like Prizm, Select and Optic going by doing what Topps/Fanatics is doing now with Composite, Finest, Chrome, etc. — signing retired vets and rookies to exclusive deals. That would mean a continued fractured market where you’d have to buy both Topps and Panini products to chase all of the rookie autos, with the Panini cards being unlicensed.

[rms13]

I would predict that Panini will keep some of its most popular lines like Prizm, Select and Optic going by doing what Topps/Fanatics is doing now with Composite, Finest, Chrome, etc. — signing retired vets and rookies to exclusive deals. That would mean a continued fractured market where you’d have to buy both Topps and Panini products to chase all of the rookie autos, with the Panini cards being unlicensed.

The problem is that Fanatics already has deals with all the retired vets that anyone cares about which is why they are in the current Topps football product. And they have signed most of the college guys. Fanatics already thought about all that.

[hairysasquatch]

I eagerly await the chance to urinate on Poopnini's grave.

[Ninotores]

I left the hobby when Topps lost the license. Panini was always a sticker dump with no motivation imo. When I heard Topps was making a comeback I started to slowly come back to the hobby. It's only been a few months for me. I've bought some Panini stuff and it seems very lazy. They use the same pictures of players throughout almost every product line they have. Stickers on even highend cards. Patch cards are completely useless. Everything I feared and why I left. So I was happy to hear Topps is back. Then I found out it's not really "Topps" per se, but Fanatics selling Topps and that kind of bums me out because I can see it becoming more corporate and repetitive products like Panini. Cards don't have the soul they used to.

Hobby is kind of washed in a sense. These napkin patches not worn by players, much less game used. 2 letter autos. Case hits that are found 4x in a case (looking at you downtown). I hope I'm wrong about Fanatics and they can invigorate the hobby. I feel like best case would be for both to have the license. Competition is needed to overcome apathy.

[rms13]

Dynasty's problem is that they make multiple RPAs per player each year.

I was tracking a 2022 rookie today and I counted no less than 6 Topps Dynasty RPAs all with the rookie card logo. I have no idea which one is 'the one' to have, and that matters. I do agree that if they clean that set up, it could be a good RPA set.

So the rookie debut patch is no good because it's 1/1 and Dynasty is no good because they make too many? You are hard to please

[rms13]

I left the hobby when Topps lost the license. Panini was always a sticker dump with no motivation imo. When I heard Topps was making a comeback I started to slowly come back to the hobby. It's only been a few months for me. I've bought some Panini stuff and it seems very lazy. They use the same pictures of players throughout almost every product line they have. Stickers on even highend cards. Patch cards are completely useless. Everything I feared and why I left. So I was happy to hear Topps is back. Then I found out it's not really "Topps" per se, but Fanatics selling Topps and that kind of bums me out because I can see it becoming more corporate and repetitive products like Panini. Cards don't have the soul they used to.

Hobby is kind of washed in a sense. These napkin patches not worn by players, much less game used. 2 letter autos. Case hits that are found 4x in a case (looking at you downtown). I hope I'm wrong about Fanatics and they can invigorate the hobby. I feel like best case would be for both to have the license. Competition is needed to overcome apathy.

Nothing is different in Topps world. They use the same pictures across multiple products. And with retired vets, you'll see the same picture on multiple products across multiple years.

Topps does do some on card autos even in lower end products like Stadium Club and Heritage. I think even Series 1 has some on cards. Still lots of sticker autos but a lot more on card stuff then Panini.

Case hits and SSP cards are also dubious with Topps. Breakers seem to get a lot of hot boxes with more hits then are supposed to be in products. And Topps also started doing the Breaker's Delight boxes where each box is full of hits but at least they don't try to hide that one.

[kipgen]

Dynasty's problem is that they make multiple RPAs per player each year.

I was tracking a 2022 rookie today and I counted no less than 6 Topps Dynasty RPAs all with the rookie card logo. I have no idea which one is 'the one' to have, and that matters. I do agree that if they clean that set up, it could be a good RPA set.

There isn't really any "one" to have beyond it being a dynasty RPA because they're all game used patches and on card autos, the only thing that changes is the artwork on the card and the choice of patch. I can understand the argument that it makes the cards less uniform and more confusing, but I like the variety that having multiple cards offers, as well as the fact that having multiple cards makes them more available to people as a whole.

Also, the market has a way of sorting itself out anyway, in the same way that the vertical flawless RPA has become "the one" to have over time and that reflects in the prices of the cards.

[slyguy]

The only one I could see Topps/Fanatics maybe paying a bit for is Donruss (for nostalgia, Rated Rookies).

Doubtful, though... Donruss and Fleer were Topps' main competition back in the day.

Panini brands are dunzo for NFL cards soon. Don't expect to see Prizm, Mosaic, Select, etc again for NFL.
(unless they want to do unlicensed nonsense... as Topps is making now).

[rms13]

The only one I could see Topps/Fanatics maybe paying a bit for is Donruss (for nostalgia, Rated Rookies).

Doubtful, though... Donruss and Fleer were Topps' main competition back in the day.

Panini brands are dunzo for NFL cards soon. Don't expect to see Prizm, Mosaic, Select, etc again for NFL.
(unless they want to do unlicensed nonsense... as Topps is making now).

From what I've heard Fanatics has exclusive deals with Brady, Montana, Sanders, Elway and a lot of other retired NFL players. So if Panini tries to do unlicensed football cards they won't have many desirable players. Fanatics also has exclusive deals with over 100 college sports teams. Panini will probably have to stick to soccer until they lose that too.

Panini will probably need to get more creative and grab niche non sports properties or just sell the business to Fanatics.

[kipgen]

From what I've heard Fanatics has exclusive deals with Brady, Montana, Sanders, Elway and a lot of other retired NFL players. So if Panini tries to do unlicensed football cards they won't have many desirable players. Fanatics also has exclusive deals with over 100 college sports teams. Panini will probably have to stick to soccer until they lose that too.

Panini will probably need to get more creative and grab niche non sports properties or just sell the business to Fanatics.

That's one of the things I'm worried about

I collect a lot of Amen Thompson in basketball and he has an exclusive (including likeness) contract with panini, so he only appears in panini products

I'm wondering if when the license transfers over to topps I'll be stuck collecting unlicensed cards until the contract expires

[slyguy]

That's one of the things I'm worried about

I collect a lot of Amen Thompson in basketball and he has an exclusive (including likeness) contract with panini, so he only appears in panini products

I'm wondering if when the license transfers over to topps I'll be stuck collecting unlicensed cards until the contract expiresThis is the foosball forum.

[jkampis]

The problem is that Fanatics already has deals with all the retired vets that anyone cares about which is why they are in the current Topps football product. And they have signed most of the college guys. Fanatics already thought about all that.


We will see. I think there are enough scraps left that Panini would give it a go.

[SkolVikesCards]

Dynasty's problem is that they make multiple RPAs per player each year.

I was tracking a 2022 rookie today and I counted no less than 6 Topps Dynasty RPAs all with the rookie card logo. I have no idea which one is 'the one' to have, and that matters. I do agree that if they clean that set up, it could be a good RPA set.


I don’t have a ton of experience collecting dynasty, but national treasures offers multiple rookie patch autos (true, double patch, crossover, impressions, rookie material auto, booklets, gloves etc) and still has the most desirable RPA in the sport with the true. I’m sure this gap can be filled by Topps even if it takes time for them to work it out

[MyckKabongo]

Nearly all bets are off as to what Topps brands will matter most in Football. Topps Chrome will be tge hottest set. Bowman will be the college brand. Beyond that, who knows? The market will decide.

TBH I will miss Panini. Panini has a lot of variety in their brand lineup and brought lots of fresh designs. For Topps something like 60% of releases are a) Topps or Bowman Flagship b) a variation of flagship (Topps Chrome) or c) a variation of a variation of flagship (Bowman Chrome Sapphire). They also recycle the hell out of old flagship designs to am absurd degree.

They really should be throwing a ton of stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Instead, in the name of cost savings, you'll probably get the exact same (overall pretty boring) product lineup as we have in baseball.

[Ninotores]

Nearly all bets are off as to what Topps brands will matter most in Football. Topps Chrome will be tge hottest set. Bowman will be the college brand. Beyond that, who knows? The market will decide.

TBH I will miss Panini. Panini has a lot of variety in their brand lineup and brought lots of fresh designs. For Topps something like 60% of releases are a) Topps or Bowman Flagship b) a variation of flagship (Topps Chrome) or c) a variation of a variation of flagship (Bowman Chrome Sapphire). They also recycle the hell out of old flagship designs to am absurd degree.

They really should be throwing a ton of stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Instead, in the name of cost savings, you'll probably get the exact same (overall pretty boring) product lineup as we have in baseball.

Is this fair to assume with new ownership though? Genuinely asking, not trying to be a wise guy.

[Fenway55]

Nearly all bets are off as to what Topps brands will matter most in Football. Topps Chrome will be tge hottest set. Bowman will be the college brand. Beyond that, who knows? The market will decide.
Sapphire is a popular product for Topps' other brands, so I imagine it will be popular for the NFL.

[kipgen]

Nearly all bets are off as to what Topps brands will matter most in Football. Topps Chrome will be tge hottest set. Bowman will be the college brand. Beyond that, who knows? The market will decide.

TBH I will miss Panini. Panini has a lot of variety in their brand lineup and brought lots of fresh designs. For Topps something like 60% of releases are a) Topps or Bowman Flagship b) a variation of flagship (Topps Chrome) or c) a variation of a variation of flagship (Bowman Chrome Sapphire). They also recycle the hell out of old flagship designs to am absurd degree.

They really should be throwing a ton of stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Instead, in the name of cost savings, you'll probably get the exact same (overall pretty boring) product lineup as we have in baseball.

Getting stadium club back though

Photogenic is similarish but doesn't scratch the itch

Also some cool crossover stuff like the project and tyson beck cards will be licensed now

I like topps b&w as well

[rms13]

Getting stadium club back though

Photogenic is similarish but doesn't scratch the itch

Also some cool crossover stuff like the project and tyson beck cards will be licensed now

I like topps b&w as well

I'm pretty sure Project doesn't exist anymore. But we'll probably get GPK x NFL and Brooklyn Collection. Chris Berman x NFL set would make sense.

[jcp2]

The only one I could see Topps/Fanatics maybe paying a bit for is Donruss (for nostalgia, Rated Rookies).

Doubtful, though... Donruss and Fleer were Topps' main competition back in the day.

Panini brands are dunzo for NFL cards soon. Don't expect to see Prizm, Mosaic, Select, etc again for NFL.
(unless they want to do unlicensed nonsense... as Topps is making now).

Donruss and optic are my favorite brands by far. I would love to see Topps buy them or lease the names.

[tjforce]

I don’t have a ton of experience collecting dynasty, but national treasures offers multiple rookie patch autos (true, double patch, crossover, impressions, rookie material auto, booklets, gloves etc) and still has the most desirable RPA in the sport with the true. I’m sure this gap can be filled by Topps even if it takes time for them to work it out

There's a clear difference that in National Treasures only 1 card is part of the base numbered set, and thus, the true rookie. The rest are just inserts.

I'll give you an example:

2017 NT Juju Smith Schuster.
Card Numbers:
183
RCS-JJ
RMS-JJ
RSC-JJ
RJB-JJ

Really easy to spot the base vs the inserts

Now, 2022 Bobby Witt Jr Dynasty.
Card Numbers:
DAP-BW1
DAP-BW4
DAP-BW5
DAP-BW6
DAPB-BWJ
ADR-BW

And that's all I've found. I assume there are at least 2 more. And it makes it really tough to determine and for the market to agree upon which is the true rookie

[rms13]

Donruss and optic are my favorite brands by far. I would love to see Topps buy them or lease the names.

This is the part that is interesting to me. I'm old so I have less attachment to Donruss and Panini brands. I started collecting in the 80s. I did like baseball Rated Rookies but Donruss was always a 2nd tier brand to Topps and they didn't do any football cards. Over the years I've enjoyed Donruss, Fleer, Upper Deck, Pacific, Pro Set, Score etc for different sports but I always viewed all of those brands of second tier to Topps so I'm just excited to see Topps back in the NFL and NBA cards. But Panini has been involved for about 15 years so obviously there are newer collectors who have only known a world where Panini was the NFL card.

[jacksonjj]

There's a clear difference that in National Treasures only 1 card is part of the base numbered set, and thus, the true rookie. The rest are just inserts.

I'll give you an example:

2017 NT Juju Smith Schuster.
Card Numbers:
183
RCS-JJ
RMS-JJ
RSC-JJ
RJB-JJ

Really easy to spot the base vs the inserts

Now, 2022 Bobby Witt Jr Dynasty.
Card Numbers:
DAP-BW1
DAP-BW4
DAP-BW5
DAP-BW6
DAPB-BWJ
ADR-BW

And that's all I've found. I assume there are at least 2 more. And it makes it really tough to determine and for the market to agree upon which is the true rookie

I actually opine that Dynasty has no true rookie and that's why I avoid Dynasty among many other reasons. Just me.

[SkolVikesCards]

There's a clear difference that in National Treasures only 1 card is part of the base numbered set, and thus, the true rookie. The rest are just inserts.

I'll give you an example:

2017 NT Juju Smith Schuster.
Card Numbers:
183
RCS-JJ
RMS-JJ
RSC-JJ
RJB-JJ

Really easy to spot the base vs the inserts

Now, 2022 Bobby Witt Jr Dynasty.
Card Numbers:
DAP-BW1
DAP-BW4
DAP-BW5
DAP-BW6
DAPB-BWJ
ADR-BW

And that's all I've found. I assume there are at least 2 more. And it makes it really tough to determine and for the market to agree upon which is the true rookie


Yeah I guess I didn’t realize your point to this extent. Definitely seems odd there is no true RPA considering almost every other aspect of Topps cards seems to have “trues” whether it’s gold refractor vs gold wave or whatever else. We’ll see how it translates to football I suppose

[jcp2]

This is the part that is interesting to me. I'm old so I have less attachment to Donruss and Panini brands. I started collecting in the 80s. I did like baseball Rated Rookies but Donruss was always a 2nd tier brand to Topps and they didn't do any football cards. Over the years I've enjoyed Donruss, Fleer, Upper Deck, Pacific, Pro Set, Score etc for different sports but I always viewed all of those brands of second tier to Topps so I'm just excited to see Topps back in the NFL and NBA cards. But Panini has been involved for about 15 years so obviously there are newer collectors who have only known a world where Panini was the NFL card.

I am 48, i remember collecting Donruss baseball as well. That is probably why i like them so much and was attracted to the brand. I have no issue with Topps, but when we were kids there more than one licensed brand.

[glassofwater]

debut patch when it comes to nfl next year will be the defacto rpa to collect. just like how in happened to baseball since it debuted

[SkolVikesCards]

debut patch when it comes to nfl next year will be the defacto rpa to collect. just like how in happened to baseball since it debuted

Agreed, however there's only 1 per player. The NT base RPA has 99 copies plus parallels lower as well. So while the debut will be the biggest chase and biggest RPA, doesn't fully fill in the gap of a collectible RPA.