Jordan RC - Altered...any thoughts? [Archive]

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 08:33 PM

So...I purchased an MJ RC about a month ago from a guy on Craigslist. Nice enough guy, and I could tell the card was athentic. Card was in so-so shape, and I paid him $200 to roll the dice and send it in.

The card came back from BGS "Authentic-Altered". When I inquired about it, they told me that someone had "colored" the card to hide imperfections. I never saw it, but I trust they know what they are doing.

So I have sent an email and VM with the guy I bought it from (suprise no response). I am considering filing a police report for fraud just to get it on the record. I have his name and contact info.

Any other suggestions? Probably SOL...but thought it was worth a shot to get my money back.

mufasa

10-10-2011, 08:39 PM

I guess I don't understand. You looked at the card and thought the price he was asking was acceptable and you say you could tell it was authentic. So you sent it in for grading and it came back authentic. Why would you file a police report on the guy?? He sold you an authentic MJ RC what more do you want from him? People never cease to amaze me.

jr24ai3

10-10-2011, 08:40 PM

Sorry, but if you saw the card in person, its your job to check if anything was altered on it. It would be different if he said it was authentic and it wasn't. Not trying to be a jerk, but its not his fault that you didn't look over the card.

Army19K

10-10-2011, 08:41 PM

For 200, the police will probably tell you that you have to go to small claims court, especially since if you couldnt see it, then the guy will say he bought it that way, that sucks.

cmisley

10-10-2011, 08:41 PM

mufasa

10-10-2011, 08:44 PM

When people buy something and cant make a windfall they all of a sudden want their money back. I also love how you bought it a month ago and are just now coming back to him. If it were me, I would tell you to pack sand

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 08:47 PM

What are you talking about? The card was altered...meaning someone took a red pen and tried to hide white chips on the card.

Not sure what you were reading bro.

I guess I don't understand. You looked at the card and thought the price he was asking was acceptable and you say you could tell it was authentic. So you sent it in for grading and it came back authentic. Why would you file a police report on the guy?? He sold you an authentic MJ RC what more do you want from him? People never cease to amaze me.

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 08:49 PM

LOL...I just got the card back from BGS today. Not like I have been sitting around contemplating what to do for a month.

Thanks for your opinion.

When people buy something and cant make a windfall they all of a sudden want their money back. I also love how you bought it a month ago and are just now coming back to him. If it were me, I would tell you to pack sand

SportsItUpCards

10-10-2011, 08:57 PM

What are you talking about? The card was altered...meaning someone took a red pen and tried to hide white chips on the card.

Not sure what you were reading bro.

I'm sorry, but the key word here is "someone." It is very likely he bought it that way... But then again, who knows.

Do you have a scan and would you consider selling it?

I wouldn't go anywhere near a police report, but that's just my opinion. Not sure why you feel a police report is in place here.

I'm actually very surprised he would sell it that low! :confused:

Oh ok, at second thought... So, you think he sold it that low because he already had some fun with the red marker? LOL :D

I still don't see the need to involve the police, but I would contact him if you wanted your money back.

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 09:12 PM

Yea...I contacted him...maybe we can work something out. And the thing is...he may not have been the one to alter the card. I am not accusing him of anything. I just bought it thinking it was something it is not.

The only reason that a police report would be in order is because altering the card and selling it as authentic is fraud. Again...not saying I would do that, but was told that this was an appropriate action (but probably not worth the hassle).

I'm sorry, but the key word here is "someone." It is very likely he bought it that way... But then again, who knows.

Do you have a scan and would you consider selling it?

I wouldn't go anywhere near a police report, but that's just my opinion. Not sure why you feel a police report is in place here.

I'm actually very surprised he would sell it that low! :confused:

Oh ok, at second thought... So, you think he sold it that low because he already had some fun with the red marker? LOL :D

I still don't see the need to involve the police, but I would contact him if you wanted your money back.

tupark82

10-10-2011, 09:13 PM

yea that's a tough call. i guess this is the risk of buying an mj rookie without a grade on it. if you bought it from him in person it's pretty much he said she said. it's not like you have a receipt or proof that it wasn't done after you got the item from him. there's no way police or small court could possibly settle this for you.

Cactuspies

10-10-2011, 09:15 PM

its craigslist, buyer beware. I know once I sell something on there i'm done with it.

lady in front of me at work thought she bought puggles from craigslist, turned out to be super large mixed somethings, the people she got them from had mocked photos and links and then never answered a phone call or an email afterwards

armyatc22

10-10-2011, 09:20 PM

It's still an authentic Jordan RC according to Beckett it's just altered. You bought as is. Did you ask if it was altered? You did look at it before you bought it didn't you?

These are questions the "courts" will ask

Just suck it up and get it slabbed with no grade as authentic

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 09:20 PM

LOL...that is rough. Imagine those people's surprise when those puppies got bigger and bigger...

I know that is how it is on Craigslist. Only difference is I have an email, phone number, and address...we will see.

its craigslist, buyer beware. I know once I sell something on there i'm done with it.

lady in front of me at work thought she bought puggles from craigslist, turned out to be super large mixed somethings, the people she got them from had mocked photos and links and then never answered a phone call or an email afterwards

ShaqEatsThat

10-10-2011, 09:22 PM

ill buy it from you for 150 even if its altered its all good

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 09:23 PM

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 09:24 PM

Yea...I may just sell it and take a loss...I will post it up here when I can get a scan.

ill buy it from you for 150 even if its altered its all good

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 09:27 PM

Thanks for all of the opinions..was just disappointed because I was picking up my first MJ RC...wasn't looking for a high grade...just an authentic card and the "altered" thing just bothered me a bit.

SportsItUpCards

10-10-2011, 09:27 PM

LOL...that is rough. Imagine those people's surprise when those puppies got bigger and bigger...

I know that is how it is on Craigslist. Only difference is I have an email, phone number, and address...we will see.

You never know on Graigslist... Heck, once a guy on ebay bought what he thought was a set of "pool balls" for his pool table. The auction had no picture, just a title and description, so when he gets it in the mail it turned out to be a picture of the guys' nuts in a pool :D

Hey, it said pool balls... HAHAHAHAHAHA

The guy who sold the pool balls got a negative and the feedback read something like, "this dude sent me a picture of his balls in a pool" LOL

UltimateDeron

10-10-2011, 09:29 PM

Honestly, you got a steal...lol. The last altered MJ Fleer RC sold for $302!

1986 Fleer Michael Jordan RC #57 BGS authentic/ altered | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-Michael-Jordan-RC-57-BGS-authentic-altered-/230677984935?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item35b57ab6a7)

Orangejello727

10-10-2011, 09:36 PM

Yea...I may just sell it and take a loss...I will post it up here when I can get a scan.

just a quick question and turn around on this..

What if it was good and graded and you flipped it for $1000. Would the original person that sold you the card have any entitlement to the $1000? I know your answer will be no.

So to my point. You bought the card as is correct? He sold you a card that was authentic like you asked. As for altered, did you ask that in the email as well? Im sure he didnt deny it to the best of his knowledge.

You could file a report to the police. Its too small for them to do anything. You can go to small claims court, and even there you would lose. All he has to do is plead neglegance to the best of his knowledge he had no clue it was altered. The fact he sold it to you as is makes it a shut case.

tristan20

10-10-2011, 09:44 PM

Definitely worth the price IMO, impossible to find a real jordan rc for $200

jr24ai3

10-10-2011, 09:46 PM

Yep...I looked but didn't notice the "alterations". I was mostly trying to determine it was authentic...which it was. I did ask in several emails etc. about the condition of the card, so it certianly wasn't represented as altered.

And that is what I did with the grading...no grade just slabbed...It says "Authentic - Altered"...

All good...maybe the guy will work something out.

If you got the card in person and saw it before you purchased it, it really doesn't matter what he told you about the condition. If you had a chance to inspect it, its 100% on you. Even if it was not authentic, it still would have been on you for not knowing what you are buying.

If it was a sight unseen purchase, it would be different. Hopefully for you he offers you money back. I personally wouldn't give you a refund for this situation.

I'm currently selling a 1971 Topps Baseball set that I am calling Ex-Mt overall. Now if I mail it to a buyer, and he says he feels the condition is less than described, I would offer a refund. But if a buyer meets me in person, looks over the set, and purchases it, thats the end of the transaction in my mind.

UltimateDeron

10-10-2011, 09:54 PM

If it was a sight unseen purchase, it would be different. Hopefully for you he offers you money back. I personally wouldn't give you a refund for this situation.

I'm currently selling a 1971 Topps Baseball set that I am calling Ex-Mt overall. Now if I mail it to a buyer, and he says he feels the condition is less than described, I would offer a refund. But if a buyer meets me in person, looks over the set, and purchases it, thats the end of the transaction in my mind.

Kind of like on Pawn Stars when Chumlee bought the fake Mandolin guitar. The buyer didn't tell him it was fake. He found out the hard way when he had in inspected. There was nothing the Pawn Shop could do besides take a loss since they bought it in person and had the chance to fully inspect it first. Rick and the Old Man were pretty upset with Chum :D

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 09:56 PM

LOL...nice find.

My disappointement was that it was for PC, and I wanted one that isn't altered.

No big deal...I should be able to sell it and just try again...just buy an authenticated one this time.

I do find it interesting the number of people defending the seller of a card that had been altered. (I realize it may not have been this guy that did it, but he said he had had the card since he was a kid.) I'm not sure folks would like to get a card they just bought back from BGS to be told that it had been "trimmed" or "colored" in some way. Just funny I guess. It certainly isn't a practice that is good for the hobby. But I realize I took a risk...so be it.

Honestly, you got a steal...lol. The last altered MJ Fleer RC sold for $302!

1986 Fleer Michael Jordan RC #57 BGS authentic/ altered | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-Michael-Jordan-RC-57-BGS-authentic-altered-/230677984935?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item35b57ab6a7)

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 10:02 PM

Fair enough...

Like I said...I looked at the card and didn't notice it was altered. After professionals took a look, the outcome was different.

I agree I had an opportunity to say no...but doesn't make the practice of altering a card to make the condition look better a good practice. It is fraud.

If you buy a Gold ring at a jewelry store...take it home...have it appraised to be insured...and they say it is only Gold plated...do you think you can file a report against the store? Darn right you can. It is fraud. Just beacuse an untrained consumer doesn't see it, doesn't mean you can do it.

Again...not a big deal here...but I do disagree that it is "OK" to sell altered cards as long as the buyer doesn't notice...lol

If you got the card in person and saw it before you purchased it, it really doesn't matter what he told you about the condition. If you had a chance to inspect it, its 100% on you. Even if it was not authentic, it still would have been on you for not knowing what you are buying.

If it was a sight unseen purchase, it would be different. Hopefully for you he offers you money back. I personally wouldn't give you a refund for this situation.

I'm currently selling a 1971 Topps Baseball set that I am calling Ex-Mt overall. Now if I mail it to a buyer, and he says he feels the condition is less than described, I would offer a refund. But if a buyer meets me in person, looks over the set, and purchases it, thats the end of the transaction in my mind.

jr24ai3

10-10-2011, 10:09 PM

Fair enough...

Like I said...I looked at the card and didn't notice it was altered. After professionals took a look, the outcome was different.

I agree I had an opportunity to say no...but doesn't make the practice of altering a card to make the condition look better a good practice. It is fraud.

If you buy a Gold ring at a jewelry store...take it home...have it appraised to be insured...and they say it is only Gold plated...do you think you can file a report against the store? Darn right you can. It is fraud. Just beacuse an untrained consumer doesn't see it, doesn't mean you can do it.

Again...not a big deal here...but I do disagree that it is "OK" to sell altered cards as long as the buyer doesn't notice...lol

A jewelry store is completely different. They are considered "experts" in their field and are handled completely different in court than a transaction between two individuals on craigslist. You would have to prove that the individual knowingly sold you an altered card and tried to deceive you.

You can always send it to beckett again if you can not see the altering. There is a chance it could come back graded. I know it sucks to buy something and it turns out to not be as good as you thought. Lesson learned I guess.

coolz

10-10-2011, 10:21 PM

You got it cheap bro, so no worries

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 10:28 PM

Yep...all good.

You got it cheap bro, so no worries

UltimateDeron

10-10-2011, 10:33 PM

I do find it interesting the number of people defending the seller of a card that had been altered. (I realize it may not have been this guy that did it, but he said he had had the card since he was a kid.) I'm not sure folks would like to get a card they just bought back from BGS to be told that it had been "trimmed" or "colored" in some way. Just funny I guess. It certainly isn't a practice that is good for the hobby. But I realize I took a risk...so be it.

I am definitely not defending what he did. I imagine that he sold the card so cheap to you because he knew it was altered and had tried to sell it before (probably on ebay) and failed to do so, or the buyer returned it. That's why he tried selling the card through Craigslist, where you can pretty much sell anything in anything shape and get away with it.

jr24ai3

10-10-2011, 10:42 PM

I do find it interesting the number of people defending the seller of a card that had been altered. (I realize it may not have been this guy that did it, but he said he had had the card since he was a kid.) I'm not sure folks would like to get a card they just bought back from BGS to be told that it had been "trimmed" or "colored" in some way. Just funny I guess. It certainly isn't a practice that is good for the hobby. But I realize I took a risk...so be it.

I'm not defending people altering cards and trying to pass them off as unaltered. My only point was that people need to inspect items closer before buying. You buy a Jordan RC for $200 which is great price assuming its crease free and corners are not smashed. Anytime a deal seems too good to be true, you have to be even more cautious when making a purchase. Hopefully the OP can move the card and pick up one that is unaltered.

Nsingerma11

10-10-2011, 10:47 PM

I hear you...but again...I inspected the card and didn't see the "alterations"...but I am not a professional.

It is fine...I can sell it and try get another one. Just got under my skin a little becasue chances are the guy was trying to make the card apear in better condition than it really was...that is all.

I'm not defending people altering cards and trying to pass them off as unaltered. My only point was that people need to inspect items closer before buying. You buy a Jordan RC for $200 which is great price assuming its crease free and corners are not smashed. Anytime a deal seems too good to be true, you have to be even more cautious when making a purchase. Hopefully the OP can move the card and pick up one that is unaltered.