Verlander MVP!!

[dthimesch]

WOW, Congrats and VERY deserving!

[mgugs46]

He had a great year, I just have a tough time understanding their logic, considering people - like that a-hole George King - left Pedro off the ballot altogether in 1999.

[msumarr54]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)

[bd3d86]

That is awesome!! Congrats Verlander!!! :flex:

[Nodie27]

Great job! He had a dominating year. Really glad I had him on my Fantasy Baseball team :)

[DetroitFan14]

WOOOOOOOO!!!

[jbellis74]

Was this a surprise to anyone? I mean come on

[Nodie27]

Was this a surprise to anyone? I mean come on

I don't know if you're joking or not, but there are a lot of people that still feel the MVP is for everyday players and not pitchers. Even got into a debate a sports bar this weekend over this lol. I think Verlander deserved it after the year he had.

[gatordeve86]

I don't know if you're joking or not, but there are a lot of people that still feel the MVP is for everyday players and not pitchers. Even got into a debate a sports bar this weekend over this lol. I think Verlander deserved it after the year he had.

i am one of the people that feel that way... yes he had an amazing year but as a starting pitcher you can only help your team every couple days

congrats to him anyways i dont get a vote so my opinion doesnt really matter lol

[37Jetson]

Yayyyy HOOOOOO!!!!

He absolutely fit the criteria of Most Valuable Player to the Tigers in 2011. A very fitting recognition.

[nuccionino]

i am one of the people that feel that way... yes he had an amazing year but as a starting pitcher you can only help your team every couple days

congrats to him anyways i dont get a vote so my opinion doesnt really matter lol

But he affected just as many at bats then a hitter.

[dthimesch]

Was this a surprise to anyone? I mean come on

yes, actually it is. I don't know if you follow baseball at all but if you do and you know how baseball writers feel about a Pitcher winning an MVP award it would be pretty surprising to you also.

[mintyfresh]

But he affected just as many at bats then a hitter.





really? so pitchers are in the field every day like hitters are for every at bat?

[37Jetson]

If the Red Sox had not tanked and fell short of the post-season, Ellsbury would have easily taken this award.

[weedyalan]

Congrats to JV!

[newcardsmell]

I see ya JV!!!

[btimm]

really? so pitchers are in the field every day like hitters are for every at bat?

Think a little harder here. If Verlander were to go 7 innings, he'd likely face about 25-28 batters, just as a guesstimate. How many fly balls are hit to right field during that game? How many times does the right fielder come to the plate? People who use the argument that a SP doesn't play often enough to have a serious impact always conveniently forget how much of an impact a SP has every time he goes out there.

Do this study and report your findings. Tell me the number of batters JV faced and add that to the number of fielding attempts he had. Now compare that number to the number of plate appearances of someone like Granderson combined with the number of fielding opportunities that Granderson had. You will see a fairly close number of "plays impacted" for each player.

[ilovethelakings]

If the Red Sox had not tanked and fell short of the post-season, Ellsbury would have easily taken this award.

If if and buts were candy and nuts, then we'd all have a merry Christmas. Verlander deserved the award hands down.

[Newbs]

Didnt think he was going to win it, was thinking that the voters would side with an everyday guy. Congrats on JV taking it though, he deserves.

[cekirsch129]

I love the pick, valuable is the name of the award... verlander was head and shoulders more valuable than ellsbury.

[FunnyBoxBreak20]

There is a super easy arguement for Verlander. It is for the MOST VALUEABLE PLAYER The Tigers made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs if Verlander was not on that team would they have even made it to the playoffs. I doubt it. Unless however Detroit in this parallel universe went out and got CC, Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay.

Ellsbury and Bautista are out because their teams didn't make it to the playoffs, in Ellsbury's situation he had the talent around him to go to the playoff BUT it just didn't happen.

I also don't think there was much competion for him.

It was the right choice and very few people should be upset about it unless you are a fan of __________ ___________. In which case you would be pissed regardless of the situation unless your guy won it. Or someone from your team won it or if Pedro won in back in 1999.

[grandmasterPRA]

Happy he won it but no pitcher should. That's why they have their own award. Someone who affects only a quarter of the teams games and watches the rest isn't their most valuable player. There were more than 60 other games that team won without him even on the field. If a QB leads his team to 4 wins and and watches every other game from the sideline, is he worthy of being called the MVP of the team or even the league for that matter?

[MetDude]

Think a little harder here. If Verlander were to go 7 innings, he'd likely face about 25-28 batters, just as a guesstimate. How many fly balls are hit to right field during that game? How many times does the right fielder come to the plate? People who use the argument that a SP doesn't play often enough to have a serious impact always conveniently forget how much of an impact a SP has every time he goes out there.

Do this study and report your findings. Tell me the number of batters JV faced and add that to the number of fielding attempts he had. Now compare that number to the number of plate appearances of someone like Granderson combined with the number of fielding opportunities that Granderson had. You will see a fairly close number of "plays impacted" for each player.

^^^^ This ^^^^

Since it seems some people cant understand this,

Verlander Pitched 251 innings ( = 753 outs)
gave up 174 hits and 57 walks ( = 988 PA against)
plus
50 fielding chances
and 4 ab
total 1038

Granderson had 691 PA and 150 fielding chances
Total 841

In response to "Pitchers have their own award"

It not the Most Valuable HITTER award
Its the Most Valuable PLAYER

Last time I checked Pitchers are players. :confused:

Verlander was also both
MLB PLAYERS CHOICE AL OUTSTANDING PITCHER and
MLB PLAYERS CHOICE PLAYER OF THE YEAR

The only thing im surprised about is that
Cabrera didnt get a little more love in the MVP voting.

[weedyalan]

Happy he won it but no pitcher should. That's why they have their own award. Someone who affects only a quarter of the teams games and watches the rest isn't their most valuable player. There were more than 60 other games that team won without him even on the field. If a QB leads his team to 4 wins and and watches every other game from the sideline, is he worthy of being called the MVP of the team or even the league for that matter?

I hate people's arguements that pitchers have their own award, so they shouldn't be considered.

That is just as arrogant as saying...
A college football Quarterback shouldn't be considered for the Heisman, because they have the Davey O'Brien Award;
or a Running Back shouldn't , because they have the Doak Walker Award;
or a Wide Receiver shouldn't, because they have the Fred Biletnikoff Award.

it is MOST VALUABLE!

MLB position players have their own awards too. They're called the Lousiville Silver Slugger and Rawlings Gold Glove. That's two awards, one more than the CY Young.

[bd3d86]

I hate people's arguements that pitchers have their own award, so they shouldn't be considered.

That is just as arrogant as saying...
A college football Quarterback shouldn't be considered for the Heisman, because they have the Davey O'Brien Award;
or a Running Back shouldn't , because they have the Doak Walker Award;
or a Wide Receiver shouldn't, because they have the Fred Biletnikoff Award.

it is MOST VALUABLE!

MLB position players have their own awards too. They're called the Lousiville Silver Slugger and Rawlings Gold Glove. That's two awards, one more than the CY Young.

You got that right Jeff!!! :)!

[fritzfreddie]

^^^^ This ^^^^

Since it seems some people cant understand this,

Verlander Pitched 251 innings ( = 753 outs)
gave up 174 hits and 57 walks ( = 988 PA against)
plus
50 fielding chances
and 4 ab
total 1038

Granderson had 691 PA and 150 fielding chances
Total 841



Not taking a side but I thought Granderson's fielding numbers seemed low and I found he had 354 PO and not whatever the 150 fielding chances you had. Also, when a single is hit to him, he still has to field it cleanly and get it in so the batter doesn't get an extra base. Doesn't show up in stats unless he boots it but still impacts the game. Also need to take account that when a batter reaches base, he impacts the game on the base path so you can't just take straight at bats into account and stop there. Sorry but saying A+B+C=D is way too simplistic in trying to say a certain players impact on the game, way too many things that aren't a stat to account for.

[Firebirds11]

Not taking a side but I thought Granderson's fielding numbers seemed low and I found he had 354 PO and not whatever the 150 fielding chances you had. Also, when a single is hit to him, he still has to field it cleanly and get it in so the batter doesn't get an extra base. Doesn't show up in stats unless he boots it but still impacts the game. Also need to take account that when a batter reaches base, he impacts the game on the base path so you can't just take straight at bats into account and stop there. Sorry but saying A+B+C=D is way too simplistic in trying to say a certain players impact on the game, way too many things that aren't a stat to account for.


But almost every outfielder can get the ball in and hold a runner to a single.

[MetDude]

Not taking a side but I thought Granderson's fielding numbers seemed low and I found he had 354 PO and not whatever the 150 fielding chances you had. Also, when a single is hit to him, he still has to field it cleanly and get it in so the batter doesn't get an extra base. Doesn't show up in stats unless he boots it but still impacts the game. Also need to take account that when a batter reaches base, he impacts the game on the base path so you can't just take straight at bats into account and stop there. Sorry but saying A+B+C=D is way too simplistic in trying to say a certain players impact on the game, way too many things that aren't a stat to account for.

Wow i screwed up in haste, and I do thank you for the correction.

Granderson is listed as having 368 chances with 354 PO and 11 assists
(Verlander had 50 chances)
this changes grandersons total to 1059 to verlanders 1038

One could also try to factor in how a pitcher holds runners on, steal% against, how many runners dont advance due to strike out, how many runners cut down on a double play and so on , or from everyday player perspective how many bases did he prevent because of being a superior fielder, or how many steals, or how many bases advanced due to being faster then average, or even more basic how many times was he a runner in general etc etc etc.

Or to follow your example of the outfielder not booting the ball ...
how many times does the pitcher not throw a wild pitch with a runner on?
thats a LOT of individual pitches right ? and theyre all plays if we want to go down that road.

but thats not really relevant

some state how can a pitcher win MVP when hes only involved 20-25 of the time as compared to an everyday player

So I agree that while the A+B+C = D is simplistic,
it very quickly proves btimms initial point about the general number of "plays impacted".

In this particular example, that number is remarkably even.

Not 20 to 25%

[btimm]

There is a super easy arguement for Verlander. It is for the MOST VALUEABLE PLAYER The Tigers made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs if Verlander was not on that team would they have even made it to the playoffs. I doubt it. Unless however Detroit in this parallel universe went out and got CC, Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay.

Ellsbury and Bautista are out because their teams didn't make it to the playoffs, in Ellsbury's situation he had the talent around him to go to the playoff BUT it just didn't happen.

I also don't think there was much competion for him.

It was the right choice and very few people should be upset about it unless you are a fan of __________ ___________. In which case you would be pissed regardless of the situation unless your guy won it. Or someone from your team won it or if Pedro won in back in 1999.

I am sorry, but your bolded comment is just about the most ridiculous thing I have read (and sadly too many people share this nonsensical view). So you punish a legit player, because he lacks the sound team around him? Really? If JV pitched for Houston and had the same numbers all of the sudden he is not MVP worthy? Isn't he still the same player?

[grandmasterPRA]

I understand what you guys are trying to say and all of your formulas and everything. But all your formulas are doing is showing HOW MUCH impact that pitcher is having in that 1 game. It still doesn't change the fact that he is still only having an impact on 1 out of every 4 sometimes 5 games. The fact is the Tigers won OVER 60 GAMES WITHOUT VERLANDER ON THE FIELD!!!!!!....So you can't tell me that Verlander is that valuable to a team when the team wins most of their games while he sits on the pine. Pitchers and even DH hitters for that matter shouldn't be MVP's. Unless pitchers strike someone out they are relying on their everyday fielders to make the plays for them. That is why an everyday player is always more "Valuable" for a team than a pitcher.

[MetDude]

I understand what you guys are trying to say and all of your formulas and everything. But all your formulas are doing is showing HOW MUCH impact that pitcher is having in that 1 game. It still doesn't change the fact that he is still only having an impact on 1 out of every 4 sometimes 5 games. The fact is the Tigers won OVER 60 GAMES WITHOUT VERLANDER ON THE FIELD!!!!!!....So you can't tell me that Verlander is that valuable to a team when the team wins most of their games while he sits on the pine. Pitchers and even DH hitters for that matter shouldn't be MVP's. Unless pitchers strike someone out they are relying on their everyday fielders to make the plays for them. That is why an everyday player is always more "Valuable" for a team than a pitcher.

No its showing you that the number of plays impacted over the course of the year of a top notch pitcher and an everyday outfielder is almost identical. he may only pitch once every 4 or 5 days but in that one game DOES 4 to 5 times as much as the everyday player.

If an granderson goes 0 for 4 and catches 1 routine fly ball what impact did he have ?

not much more then the pitcher who isnt pitching that day.