Time to give Tebow some love

[paparoke]

I will be the first to admit that I thought Tim Tebow wouldn't amount to much in the NFL. But tell me how many QBs started their careers going 5-1? His numbers aren't great, but in the clutch, the kid is money. If I were a Broncos fan, I would only care about the wins. I think the Tebow story is a great one and I respect him for his drive and determination to succeed. He's also a great guy who does a lot for the community and doesn't carry the super douchebag ego like much of the NFL players. I hope he continues to succeed and prove everyone wrong.

[SelfDestruct808]

He didn't start his career 5-1. But yah he is a GREAT leader & role model. And i can't see how anyone can dislike him as a person.

[hhmag70]

I have no real feelings one way or the other about him but will admit I enjoy that he is winning as it makes good conversation.

[19royaldecker87]

I will be the first to admit that I thought Tim Tebow wouldn't amount to much in the NFL. But tell me how many QBs started their careers going 5-1? His numbers aren't great, but in the clutch, the kid is money. If I were a Broncos fan, I would only care about the wins. I think the Tebow story is a great one and I respect him for his drive and determination to succeed. He's also a great guy who does a lot for the community and doesn't carry the super douchebag ego like much of the NFL players. I hope he continues to succeed and prove everyone wrong.

very well said

[Zacky1053]

I still cannot believe much of the negative banter around Tebow...

I was watching the Broncos-Chargers gamecenter on CBSSports.com, and LITERALLY the entire "chat" area was line-after-line of those I guess what they call Tebowisms.

I've said it a million times and will say it again. Criticize his throwing motion, criticize his accuracy all you want, but he doesn't deserve being the butt of a joke every other second. He hasn't done anything to deserve it.

He's willing this team to wins, and yes, the defense has stepped up big time also, but they believe they can win with Tebow at the helm.

[shockandawwe]

could you imagine if he could throw too!!!!:eek:

[Zacky1053]

And next week he gets the Vikings, who are 29th in the league in pass defense and give up the most fantasy points to QBs.

[Qwasian]

it's strange that someone would say in the clutch he's money? they are running an offense that slows the hell out of the clock and then playing defense so the other team can't score, has nothing to do with tebow being good at all, infact he's playing quite bad honestly. he's out there grossly overthrowing people and getting stuffed on runs, if you run a thousand times from QB position you will get a 20 yard run and a TD every now & then, it's nothing spectacular, they are basically playing keep away, has nothing to do with tebow being any good at football. he had 3 or 4 chances at the end of the chargers game to win it, and couldn't, they finally ended up kicking a field goal after several times trying, so I don't see how anyone could watch yesterdays game and say he's money at crunchtime?

he's like the opposite of cam newton, cam throws the lights out & never wins, tebow does nothing at all on the field and wins............lol

[jp98]

His stats are awful, he always has a completion % less than 50, throws terrible passes all of the time, but so many of them are so bad not even the defense can get them, hence a few # of INT's.

[longhrncardshop]

it's strange that someone would say in the clutch he's money? they are running an offense that slows the hell out of the clock and then playing defense so the other team can't score, has nothing to do with tebow being good at all, infact he's playing quite bad honestly. he's out there grossly overthrowing people and getting stuffed on runs, if you run a thousand times from QB position you will get a 20 yard run and a TD every now & then, it's nothing spectacular, they are basically playing keep away, has nothing to do with tebow being any good at football. he had 3 or 4 chances at the end of the chargers game to win it, and couldn't, they finally ended up kicking a field goal after several times trying, so I don't see how anyone could watch yesterdays game and say he's money at crunchtime?

he's like the opposite of cam newton, cam throws the lights out & never wins, tebow does nothing at all on the field and wins............lol

you're saying that tebow does nothing! id like to see the broncos throw out brady quinn and see if he can do anything to win...

[ManInTheMirror]

he's like the opposite of cam newton, cam throws the lights out & never wins, tebow does nothing at all on the field and wins............lol
Yea, you are right. Tebow does nothing at all. He never even has the ball snapped he just stands there.

[SethMurphy]

I still refuse to give Tebow any credit. The guy is completing 50% of his passes and his throws look like he is in high school.

Give the credit to the defense, Tebow is a career back-up still

[pzeniewicz]

Blessed be the lord.

[YanksBillsFan]

The kid has a good head on his shoulders and he's easy to root for but I have to give Denver's D the credit for this run. Outside of the Raiders game, Denver is struggling to put up points with him under center. I know a win is a win but this run has come against some pretty inept offenses with Miami, KC, NYJ and SD. The Tebow glasses won't become any clearer with a weak Minnesota squad next.
The thing that sucks about this Tebow mania is that it's overshadowing a very special player in Von Miller. I know Tebow has the game winning highlights but Miller has elevated this D to where Tebow is given the opportunity to shine.

[SethMurphy]

The kid has a good head on his shoulders and he's easy to root for but I have to give Denver's D the credit for this run. Outside of the Raiders game, Denver is struggling to put up points with him under center. I know a win is a win but this run has come against some pretty inept offenses with Miami, KC, NYJ and SD. The Tebow glasses won't become any clearer with a weak Minnesota squad next.
The thing that sucks about this Tebow mania is that it's overshadowing a very special player in Von Miller. I know Tebow has the game winning highlights but Miller has elevated this D to where Tebow is given the opportunity to shine.

you couldn't have hit the nail any harder on the head, Miller is headed to the Defensive Rookie of the Year award in a landslide I would bet, and that defense is playing lights out.

Tebow is still just a marginal pro player. The credit for the offense actually needs to go to the coaching staff for swallowing their own pride and realizing the couldn't make Tebow run the pro-style offense so they have implemented a much simpler, more college style offense for him. It's run heavy, and not dependant on him winning the games with his arm.

[deltapi1049]

I still refuse to give Tebow any credit. The guy is completing 50% of his passes and his throws look like he is in high school.

Give the credit to the defense, Tebow is a career back-up still

This is exactly what is going on. Its not Tebow and his "being a winner", its his defense giving up so few points. of the 5 wins, 4 of them the opposing team scored 15 points or LESS! Even the Colts put up 19 points this past week!

People should be talking about Denver's defense, not their offense.

[ronlabo]

Blessed be the lord.

Amen:)!:):)!

[Qwasian]

it's actually the defense as well as the fact that tebow runs alot and makes the team run alot so they keep the ball for long periods of time, it's difficult for the other team to score when the bronco's are playing keepaway and playing great defense.... with orton you didn't get that, because he was trying to pass and run a realistic offense so they would have alot of 3 and out's.... with tebow you get some really slow drives, with grunt conversions, and then the other team just doesn't have "TIME" on the clock to score enough to win. the guy is a terrible quarterback and is not doing anything at all positive. he's over & underthrowing people constantly. he plays entire games and barely can score with enourmous amounts of time on the field. i'm completely clueless how anyone could say "TEBOW" pulls off the overtime win...... he didn't score or do jack in overtime, they kicked a field goal after the other team missed one..... I was actually watching every minute of the game rooting for him to do something..... he just didn't.

[bigsmoot2]

it's actually the defense as well as the fact that tebow runs alot and makes the team run alot so they keep the ball for long periods of time, it's difficult for the other team to score when the bronco's are playing keepaway and playing great defense.... with orton you didn't get that, because he was trying to pass and run a realistic offense so they would have alot of 3 and out's.... with tebow you get some really slow drives, with grunt conversions, and then the other team just doesn't have "TIME" on the clock to score enough to win. the guy is a terrible quarterback and is not doing anything at all positive. he's over & underthrowing people constantly. he plays entire games and barely can score with enourmous amounts of time on the field. i'm completely clueless how anyone could say "TEBOW" pulls off the overtime win...... he didn't score or do jack in overtime, they kicked a field goal after the other team missed one..... I was actually watching every minute of the game rooting for him to do something..... he just didn't.

You must not have watched that close. Had 15 yards rushing or so before the McGahee big run that set up the winning FG after SD missed their FG. I guess people see what they want to see.

I watched the whole game, and Denver is playing John Fox style football. They are playing great D and running the football. Tebow actually made a few KEY good throws when he had to, and I will say that yesterday he made some good throws, had about 2-3 drops where he put it RIGHT on his receiver. He also doesn't turn the ball over, which is huge in this style of football.

Why do people hate on Tebow, when all he ever does when asked is give credit to the TEAM style that they are playing and also say that he needs to work and get better.

Kid is 5-1 as a starter and has a dead in the water team a few weeks ago in the middle of the playoff hunt. I guess they are winning in spite of him (according to some), but I have been a die hard Denver fan for almost 30 years, and they sure didn't play like this with Kyle Orton. GO BRONCOS!

EDIT: Agree on the Von Miller comments above, this kid is special and Denver drafted a STUD, man can he rush the passer! GO BRONCOS!

[Laxbam619]

Is the broncos def playing unbelievable as of late? YES

But you have to give Tebow some credit, yeah his stats are HOF status and sometimes he looks very sloppy. But at the end of the day a win is a win, and if Im right he has 5 of them in 6 games.

[FreshBreak]

You must not have watched that close. Had 15 yards rushing or so before the McGahee big run that set up the winning FG after SD missed their FG. I guess people see what they want to see.

I watched the whole game, and Denver is playing John Fox style football. They are playing great D and running the football. Tebow actually made a few KEY good throws when he had to, and I will say that yesterday he made some good throws, had about 2-3 drops where he put it RIGHT on his receiver. He also doesn't turn the ball over, which is huge in this style of football.

Why do people hate on Tebow, when all he ever does when asked is give credit to the TEAM style that they are playing and also say that he needs to work and get better.

Kid is 5-1 as a starter and has a dead in the water team a few weeks ago in the middle of the playoff hunt. I guess they are winning in spite of him (according to some), but I have been a die hard Denver fan for almost 30 years, and they sure didn't play like this with Kyle Orton. GO BRONCOS!

EDIT: Agree on the Von Miller comments above, this kid is special and Denver drafted a STUD, man can he rush the passer! GO BRONCOS!

^^^^Here.....I put in bold the important parts ^^^^^

[cdizz]

Ok so granted the guy is no Aaron Rodgers and never will be, but in his defense he's still only started a handful of games. So what if they are playing an offensive style that caters to his strengths and weaknesses, isn't that how an offense is supposed to be run? The best strategy to win is to keep the other team's offense off the field and that is exactly what they are doing. Is it boring and ugly? Yes. No it is not only Tebow winning games it does take good D for the game plan to work, but they sure as hell weren't winning with Orton and they have the same D that went 1-4 without Tebow, so all of the haters can't say it's the defense alone. The guy has 11 TD's to only 2 turn overs, last time I checked that was pretty damn good. I don't know about anyone else, but I'll take a W over flashy stats any day of the week.

[mortatort]

I just wanna know where a name like Tebow even comes from :confused:

[ManInTheMirror]

I just wanna know where a name like Tebow even comes from :confused:
The name Tebow is an anglicized version of the Flemish name Tibaut. The Tibauts came from what is today Bruges Belgium to the New Amsterdam Colony in the early 17th century. The name was anglicized to the present form (Tebow) sometime after the English coopted the colony in the later part of the same century. The French name Thibault is also a version of the original Frankish name.

[mortatort]

The name Tebow is an anglicized version of the Flemish name Tibaut. The Tibauts came from what is today Bruges Belgium to the New Amsterdam Colony in the early 17th century. The name was anglicized to the present form (Tebow) sometime after the English coopted the colony in the later part of the same century. The French name Thibault is also a version of the original Frankish name.


you just made that up, I am convinced of it :\

[lemur01]

He still sucks, but I love his attitude and work ethic. If he fails in the end, it won't be from lack of effort. In Tebow I trust....

[FreshBreak]

This guy believes also........
http://www.inflexwetrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IFWT-Tebow-tat.jpg

In Flex We Trust (Photo) NFL: Fan Gets Huge Tim Tebow Tribute Tattoo (http://www.inflexwetrust.com/2011/11/25/photo-nfl-fan-gets-huge-tim-tebow-tribute-tattoo/)

[outlaw33]

i cant stand watching four quarters of tebow playing QB(peewee quality QBing to be honest), so i say the broncos should do a QB by committee.play quin the first three quarters then have tebow play the fourth.I think i could deal with seeing that another couple years till the broncs get a new franchise QB

[Qwasian]

You must not have watched that close. Had 15 yards rushing or so before the McGahee big run that set up the winning FG after SD missed their FG. I guess people see what they want to see.


no, I absolutely saw this........ did you not know that 15 yards rushing is nothing special at all?

by your own standards the win should go to McGahee for his big run yet you hear nothing about that..... and nothing about von miller......

but tebow runs for 15 yards and gets this crazy amount of props and credit for the win? what a joke.........

I can't really believe anybody even said that, "he rushed for 15 yards or so" that is hilarious to say the least.


they could have EASILY ran this style of offense with kyle orton and won the same way......

not saying tebow doesn't have some good plays, because he does....... but he lost that game yesterday in so many ways and then got bailed out with a field goal..... for people to give him any type of props for that is crazy to me......... he couldn't convert at all in the whole last part of the game or overtime.... but he's clutch? get real

[Justin]

People just need to give the kid a chance. He is winning and that is all that should matter. Also a little interesting fact for everyone hating on Tebow. Last week they compared Tebow to Elway and Tebows stats are better then Elways so far. Last time I checked Elway turned out ok. I am in no way saying Tebow is better then Elway but there is no need to write the kid off so early.

[bigdaddyblue73]

Every one picks on Tebow because they can.

[pmannings#1fan]

I still refuse to give Tebow any credit. The guy is completing 50% of his passes and his throws look like he is in high school.

Give the credit to the defense, Tebow is a career back-up still

He did throw a TD though yesterday so we can give him 6 points on that feat but yea he still sucks, just another QB flunky!!

[Qwasian]

People just need to give the kid a chance. He is winning and that is all that should matter. Also a little interesting fact for everyone hating on Tebow. Last week they compared Tebow to Elway and Tebows stats are better then Elways so far. Last time I checked Elway turned out ok. I am in no way saying Tebow is better then Elway but there is no need to write the kid off so early.

Tebow realistically is not "WINNING"......... the team is winning after manipulating they style around tebow..... and this huge amount of time they hold the ball creates wins for them, but tebows play hasn't won them anything at all.

if a team holds the ball the entire game and kicks a field goal they win too, doesn't mean they have a good QB.

[ManInTheMirror]

Tebow realistically is not "WINNING"......... the team is winning after manipulating they style around tebow..... and this huge amount of time they hold the ball creates wins for them, but tebows play hasn't won them anything at all.

if a team holds the ball the entire game and kicks a field goal they win too, doesn't mean they have a good QB.
We get your stance Q, now stop trying to convince others to think the same way you do. Please just let it go and let others think what they want. For as much as you don't agree with their/our opinions there are many of us who don't agree with yours. It's just a part of life.

[BostonNut]

If he beats New England then I will drink the Kool-Aid. Otherwise it has been all Von Miller and that defense...

[cadillac540]

Tebow realistically is not "WINNING"......... the team is winning after manipulating they style around tebow..... and this huge amount of time they hold the ball creates wins for them, but tebows play hasn't won them anything at all.

if a team holds the ball the entire game and kicks a field goal they win too, doesn't mean they have a good QB.

He's 5-1... I thought that was winning :confused:

[cadillac540]

We get your stance Q, now stop trying to convince others to think the same way you do. Please just let it go and let others think what they want. For as much as you don't agree with their/our opinions there are many of us who don't agree with yours. It's just a part of life.

No point in arguing with this guy, don't waste your time

[pmannings#1fan]

If he beats New England then I will drink the Kool-Aid. Otherwise it has been all Von Miller and that defense...

Agreed +1:)!

[Qwasian]

We get your stance Q, now stop trying to convince others to think the same way you do. Please just let it go and let others think what they want. For as much as you don't agree with their/our opinions there are many of us who don't agree with yours. It's just a part of life.

im just chatting like everyone else.........that's the whole purpose of the topic, to debate it.

[Qwasian]

He's 5-1... I thought that was winning :confused:

only when your playing 1 on 1 basketball....... when your playing football in tim tebow fashion, you've been carried.

[Monsters]

I agree with some and disagree with others...

Is Tebow a "Great" QB...No
Is he a good team "Leader"...Yes
Does he "Elevate" the play around him...Yes
Does he lose games...No
Were they winning before he became the starter....No
The most important question is "Are the Broncos Winning with him at QB?'...Yes

I don't think he will ever be a Pro Bowl QB, but I am rooting for him as there is something special about the kid.

[cadillac540]

only when your playing 1 on 1 basketball....... when your playing football in tim tebow fashion, you've been carried.

So you would say he's a loser then?

[bigsmoot2]

no, I absolutely saw this........ did you not know that 15 yards rushing is nothing special at all?

by your own standards the win should go to McGahee for his big run yet you hear nothing about that..... and nothing about von miller......

but tebow runs for 15 yards and gets this crazy amount of props and credit for the win? what a joke.........

I can't really believe anybody even said that, "he rushed for 15 yards or so" that is hilarious to say the least.


they could have EASILY ran this style of offense with kyle orton and won the same way......

not saying tebow doesn't have some good plays, because he does....... but he lost that game yesterday in so many ways and then got bailed out with a field goal..... for people to give him any type of props for that is crazy to me......... he couldn't convert at all in the whole last part of the game or overtime.... but he's clutch? get real

They could have ran the read option with Kyle Orton and won games, really?

And can you point out to me where I gave Tebow CREDIT for the win, and anytime that HE himself takes credit for the win, he always talks about the TEAM and how they never give up. Like I said before, football is a team sport, and right now Denver is playing great team football.

And I don't know what you are watching, but on the ESPN highlights last night plenty of people are talking about the change in the Denver D, and Von Miller being the Defensive ROY. Once again, we see and hear what we want to hear. I am done on the subject, hopefully they keep it rolling in MN! GO BRONCOS!!

[BAMBAM]

I like Tebow, always have and I can't understand why so many people want to see him fail including his own organization it seems ? Whether you think he overdoes it with the religion or not, at least the kid is genuine and not some fraud putting on a show in front of the camera. I find it hypocritical and to some degree, racist (yeah I said it since the media only plays one race card all the time), that people laugh and mock him for starting post game interviews thanking God when many black athletes have done it for a whole lot longer and nothing was ever said. Granted there are white people making a joke of it in the media and on twitter but they're just the ones who didn't have the sack to say something about a black guy doing it.


I think John Elway is a complete jackoff in handling this whole situation as he has. It's like since they were 1-4 and the fans kept calling for him, Elway told Fox to put him in so he can fall on his face and since that hasn't happened and the team is winning, Johnny now has to make snide comments thru twitter and the media. Maybe he's a little jealous because Tebow's numbers, passing stats too, are actually better than his were after the same number or starts. Maybe the Broncos should actually try and develop his passing skills and allow him to throw the ball a little more then 5 or 6 times a half. Most professional athletes would have their feelings hurt and be sulking if the organization was always slighting them like this. Says a whole lot about his character that he just keeps ignoring the BS. I can't imagine an organization trying to screw with a players mind set when their whole season has gone from crap to possibly the playoffs since he's taken the starting job. I'm not saying he is the only reason they are winning games but only a fool would say he isn't a large part of the reason why. For some reason the players rally around Tebow whether it's a young kid like Von Miller or an old pro like Champ Bailey. I can only imagine what happens when the Broncos lose their next game. Teams will catch up with this offense sooner or later or the Broncos will fall behind by a couple scores and make Tebow have to throw so why not take the rest of the season and try to make him a better passer ? The kid works his balls off so why not work with him. The only way he won't get better is if the Broncos won't let him.

[BAMBAM]

If he beats New England then I will drink the Kool-Aid. Otherwise it has been all Von Miller and that defense...

No you won't because to beat NE you have to stop Brady from putting up big numbers so you'll still say it's the D.

[Qwasian]

So you would say he's a loser then?

absolutely, because they will never even get close to a superbowl playing this way

[Qwasian]

No you won't because to beat NE you have to stop Brady from putting up big numbers so you'll still say it's the D.

tebow can't put up enough points to beat NE....... not happening, infact he will most likely get embarrassed

[BAMBAM]

they could have EASILY ran this style of offense with kyle orton and won the same way......



You are either a clueless bastard or you will just say anything to try and make yourself seem right. Which is it ? :confused: Either way this is a stupid comment that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[WilsonValdez]

You are either a clueless bastard or you will just say anything to try and make yourself seem right. Which is it ? :confused: Either way this is a stupid comment that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Both...don't bother arguing with him. He doesn't do logic very well.

[FreeFlow]

I agree with some and disagree with others...

Is Tebow a "Great" QB...No
Is he a good team "Leader"...Yes
Does he "Elevate" the play around him...Yes
Does he lose games...No
Were they winning before he became the starter....No
The most important question is "Are the Broncos Winning with him at QB?'...Yes

I don't think he will ever be a Pro Bowl QB, but I am rooting for him as there is something special about the kid.

Exactly what I was about to say, Thanks for saving me 30seconds :)!

I didn't believe in him and bet againts him the first two weeks he won, then I realized the man just wins games, Don't care how Q or anyone wants to spin how bad of a traditional QB he is, Tebow comes through for his team that keeps the game close for him to win it at the end. Clutchbow!

[BAMBAM]

absolutely, because they will never even get close to a superbowl playing this way

So Marino was a loser as well in your judgement of winners huh ? I mean, after his second season he never got very close to a SB either so he must have really sucked IYO huh ? Can you even throw a football ? I'm betting the answer is no since you don't seem to really know much about the game.

[bigsmoot2]

absolutely, because they will never even get close to a superbowl playing this way

So Dan Marino is a loser because he never won a Super Bowl and only got there once.

Denver was 1-4 with Kyle Orton as a starter and the EXACT same D personnel as they have right now, Tebow actually has less weapons on O as Brandon Lloyd was traded and Moreno tore his ACL. I don't know, but since they made the QB change and changed the offense to fit him, they are 5-1 and EVERYONE seems to be playing better. Veterans on the D, Bailey and Dawkins talk a lot about the IT factor that Tebow has, and how it has effected the play of the team.

Bambam is absolutely correct in his comments about you above.

[Qwasian]

You are either a clueless bastard or you will just say anything to try and make yourself seem right. Which is it ? :confused: Either way this is a stupid comment that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


almost any QB in the league can do what tebow does, he's not consistant on any level to do anything.........

the whole trick to what is being done is tebow gets on the field and eats up the clock with run after run, which automatically limits the scores of the other team since they can't possibly score without having the ball.......

then while he's doing this grunt running method, which is extremely un'effective I might add.... he's keeping the defense sharp and off the field for a long period of time, as well as wearing out the other defense with multiple snaps/runs/time on the field.... so he wears them down till he can try to come up with some lame play in the 4th quarter to score once and win.....


if you'd like to attribute those factors to tebow.... fine, he's excellent in that aspect...... unfortunately none of those aspects have anything to do with being a QB, it's just a teams gameplan to milk the clock. which happens to pattern around something they are trying to do to accomodate tebow.

[bigsmoot2]

tebow can't put up enough points to beat NE....... not happening, infact he will most likely get embarrassed

So if the Denver D cannot stop or slow down Tom Brady (which is difficult for any team), that is going to be Tim Tebow's fault and he will be embarrassed? You are a sweet piece of work.

[Cubs_rock21]

Qwasian actually hit the nail on the head....Its all about time of possession and the fact the defense is able to rest enough and hold the offense off the field...Tebow isn't playing well, but he's doing just enough to win, his teammates are also picking him up big time..It took a top 10 catch to get the Broncos into field goal range. The Broncos defense also stopped the Chargers 3 times in OT, and than the running game of the Broncos took them into FG range...

Everyone is giving Tebow all the credit for these wins, and Im sorry that wrong..The defesnse has been phenominal for the Broncos, Tebow lovers seem to overlook it...Yes Tebow is the man behind the snap, but converting 4 3rd downs a game, and throwing the ball 4-12 are not good numbers, idc what anyone says....Tebow is throwing more each game, and when he starts throwing for accuracy he will be a better QB..However he has to throw for accuracy and complete more then 25% of his passes, otherwise the T.O.P will go down..T.O.P is the key to their success


Also IMO Tebow cant keep up with the gunslinging offenses like The Patriots and Packers, nor will he stand much of a chance vs. a defensive powerhouse like the Steelers...Tho I guess not many teams can anyway

[ManInTheMirror]

almost any QB in the league can do what tebow does,
Shall I start listing all the QBs in the league right now with losing records?
he's not consistant on any level to do anything.........
He is consistent at leading his team to victories. Which is really all that matters when it comes down to it.

[hugh]

if the Defense wasn't holding opponents to 10-13 points a game, he wouldn't be winning

[Qwasian]

So Dan Marino is a loser because he never won a Super Bowl and only got there once.

Denver was 1-4 with Kyle Orton as a starter and the EXACT same D personnel as they have right now, Tebow actually has less weapons on O as Brandon Lloyd was traded and Moreno tore his ACL. I don't know, but since they made the QB change and changed the offense to fit him, they are 5-1 and EVERYONE seems to be playing better. Veterans on the D, Bailey and Dawkins talk a lot about the IT factor that Tebow has, and how it has effected the play of the team.

Bambam is absolutely correct in his comments about you above.



yes, dan marino was a loser that never won a superbowl... he had excellent talent at the QB position but overall yes he was a loser... his talent at QB was so great that he is hall of fame status and put up tons of numbers, but he still did ultimately lose.... YES.

Kyle orton was a starter correct.... but they approached the game completely different when he was in there..... which created more 3 and outs and alot less time on the field which winded the defense more.

The offense hasn't performed better under tebow...... check the stats. they just milked the clock.... they aren't putting up more points or smoother offense, NONE OF THAT......... that couldn't be more false.

the defense is performing way better, of course, because they don't have to be on the field as long.... any defense would do better under that circumstance..... protecting the run for so many minutes per game will wear down any defense in the NFL.

you don't have to consider me to be right, check what i'm saying up against the stats and tell me what you come up with, I don't have an "OPINION" on it, because I was rooting for tebow..... i'm just stating fact on whats being done within the football games he's winning.

[bigsmoot2]

almost any QB in the league can do what tebow does, he's not consistant on any level to do anything.........

the whole trick to what is being done is tebow gets on the field and eats up the clock with run after run, which automatically limits the scores of the other team since they can't possibly score without having the ball.......

then while he's doing this grunt running method, which is extremely un'effective I might add.... he's keeping the defense sharp and off the field for a long period of time, as well as wearing out the other defense with multiple snaps/runs/time on the field.... so he wears them down till he can try to come up with some lame play in the 4th quarter to score once and win.....


if you'd like to attribute those factors to tebow.... fine, he's excellent in that aspect...... unfortunately none of those aspects have anything to do with being a QB, it's just a teams gameplan to milk the clock. which happens to pattern around something they are trying to do to accomodate tebow.


We get it, you hate him and think he is terrible.

And if any QB in the league can do, why is NO ONE else in FB doing it? Why are some the unsuccessful teams this year doing it and winning games? Why aren't the 0-11 Colts doing it, 2-9 Rams, 2-9 Vikings, etc . . if ANYONE can win this way?

[Cubs_rock21]

So Dan Marino is a loser because he never won a Super Bowl and only got there once.

Denver was 1-4 with Kyle Orton as a starter and the EXACT same D personnel as they have right now, Tebow actually has less weapons on O as Brandon Lloyd was traded and Moreno tore his ACL. I don't know, but since they made the QB change and changed the offense to fit him, they are 5-1 and EVERYONE seems to be playing better. Veterans on the D, Bailey and Dawkins talk a lot about the IT factor that Tebow has, and how it has effected the play of the team.

Bambam is absolutely correct in his comments about you above.


TIME OF POSSESSION, you are arguing against someone that I feel knows what he's talking about....Orton threw the ball so many times which put the other teams offense on the field so many times...

What happens when a pass in incomplete? The clock stops, what happens on a run, the clock keeps moving..

Long possessions and resting of the defense are the huge differences between Orton and Tebow

[Qwasian]

So if the Denver D cannot stop or slow down Tom Brady (which is difficult for any team), that is going to be Tim Tebow's fault and he will be embarrassed? You are a sweet piece of work.

no, I didn't say that at all....... I'm saying his same weak play that he's had all along will shine thru as new england puts up points on him and takes him completely out the game. teams that can score will make tebow look like a joke.

[Cubs_rock21]

if the Defense wasn't holding opponents to 10-13 points a game, he wouldn't be winning

Exactly, Tebow's play can rest the defense and keep the other teams offense off the field...thats his strong point, and the only reason they are winning..

Defense should get almost all the credit for yesterdays win.

[Qwasian]

We get it, you hate him and think he is terrible.

And if any QB in the league can do, why is NO ONE else in FB doing it? Why are some the unsuccessful teams this year doing it and winning games? Why aren't the 0-11 Colts doing it, 2-9 Rams, 2-9 Vikings, etc . . if ANYONE can win this way?

I don't hate tebow at all, I like tebow... he just hasn't played good... and I can't bring myself to lie about it.........

why is no other team playing keep away? I don't know, i'm not the spokesperson for every team in the league and the gameplan they use...... the colts, rams, vikings don't have a tebow style of QB to run that gameplan..... it's not an overall winning gameplan, it will get you so far and then you lose, so people shoot for a more conventional overall offense..... the broncos are a total loss anyway, so they figured hell with it, we might as well try it just to get some type of win.. but in the playoffs, this system gets CRUSHED, immediately...... you can beat a few teams in the season who didn't expect it, but game 1 playoffs your going home with that method.

[imnotded]

Let me preface my statement by saying that I dont keep up with football (or Tebow) much anymore.

I really dont understand the logic behind saying if Denver wins it's NOT because of Tebow, but if they lose it's all Tebow's fault. I'm sorry, you cant have it both ways.

[ManInTheMirror]

Exactly, Tebow's play can rest the defense and keep the other teams offense off the field...thats his strong point, and the only reason they are winning..

Defense should get almost all the credit for yesterdays win.
Your two paragraphs are contradicting each other.

[bigsmoot2]

Here is the time of possesion in Tebow's 6 starts:

Denver 37:08 San Diego 37:23
Denver 27:48 NYJ 32:12
Denver 33:28 KC 26:32
Denver 31:51 Oaklan 28:09
Denver 30:26 Detroit 29:24 (Denver got smoked)
Denver 34:17 Miami 33:19

Also, Denver didn't win under Kyle Orton, he was 4-14 in last 18 games as a starter. They are running an offense that is making the team successful, who cares how it looks. I am the first to admit that he has A LOT to work on, but to give him no credit and bash him at every turn seems a bit unreasonable to me.

Dan Marino is a loser, ouch man.

[bigsmoot2]

TIME OF POSSESSION, you are arguing against someone that I feel knows what he's talking about....Orton threw the ball so many times which put the other teams offense on the field so many times...

What happens when a pass in incomplete? The clock stops, what happens on a run, the clock keeps moving..

Long possessions and resting of the defense are the huge differences between Orton and Tebow

I watch EVERY Denver game, they COULD NOT run the ball at all when McDaniels was the coach look up the stats. They had to throw, they really weren't running the ball that successfully at the beginning of this year, and Orton (who is a better passer than Tebow) threw the ball a lot more. Now with the same EXACT team all of a sudden they can run the ball, they have been averaging almost 200+ yards a game on the ground, and you think that has nothing to do with Tebow? Also, Orton turned the ball over a ton, which is something Tebow doesn't do, and shouldn't be overlooked.

I get that running the ball and grinding the clock shortens the game, and that is what Denver is trying to do. You still have to execute and pick up first downs, and play field position football. Their D looks nowhere near the same D at the beginning of the year, they look pretty good.

I agree, it is hard to play from behind in this style, but right now what they are doing is working. We shall see, they just beat their entire division Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers on the road (I know the division isn't great, but it wasn't last year either), that has not happened very often in Denver, where they have had some pretty darn good teams.

[Qwasian]

Here is the time of possesion in Tebow's 6 starts:

Denver 37:08 San Diego 37:23
Denver 27:48 NYJ 32:12
Denver 33:28 KC 26:32
Denver 31:51 Oaklan 28:09
Denver 30:26 Detroit 29:24 (Denver got smoked)
Denver 34:17 Miami 33:19

Also, Denver didn't win under Kyle Orton, he was 4-14 in last 18 games as a starter. They are running an offense that is making the team successful, who cares how it looks. I am the first to admit that he has A LOT to work on, but to give him no credit and bash him at every turn seems a bit unreasonable to me.

Dan Marino is a loser, ouch man.



exactly when ORTON was Qb'ing denver's time of possession was always under 30 minutes, they had the ball for less than half of the game, and when tebow is QB'ing they have the ball over 30 minutes on almost every single game, you basically just proved my point.

Dan Marino is a loser, he didn't win a superbowl, can I call him a winner? he's a great QB but he never won.

[imnotded]

exactly when ORTON was Qb'ing denver's time of possession was always under 30 minutes, they had the ball for less than half of the game, and when tebow is QB'ing they have the ball over 30 minutes on almost every single game, you basically just proved my point.

Dan Marino is a loser, he didn't win a superbowl, can I call him a winner? he's a great QB but he never won.

Wasn't he the first QB to have a perfect season?

[Qwasian]

Wasn't he the first QB to have a perfect season?

no actually he wasn't........ thanks for your input though.

[Cubs_rock21]

Your two paragraphs are contradicting each other.

How, both give credit to the defense



Its kind of a double edged sword with Tebow...If he continues to play like he is now, throwing the ball 10-15 times a game, and they keep winning, people will continue to say Tebow doesn't have it as a QB, which IMO isn't an unfair judgement....If Tebow Starts throwing the ball 30-40 times a game like Orton, the team will go back to their 1-4 like selves since the other teams offense would be on the field so much longer..

Thus the irony of it all is that Tebow can prob only win by playing the way he does, thus the critisims will never end..

I think Tebow is a great player to have on a team, and needs to be a part of the offense, a QB tho? idk yet

[SpastikMooss]

So I'm not a Tebow fan...BUT as someone pointed out, New England's threat is its offense, not its defense (though their run defense is ranked 12th). If the Broncos maintain clock like they have and McGahee/Tebow get a lot of nice runs in - that could be a game guys. Not so sure it's a definite blowout. And the Bears are a lighter version of that (their run defense is ranked 8th) without Cutler at QB.

We're looking at a Broncos team that could be 10-6. All because of the spread offense...wow.

[imnotded]

no actually he wasn't........ thanks for your input though.

Actually I was really asking...... thanks for your input too.

[verbal13]

I watch EVERY Denver game, they COULD NOT run the ball at all when McDaniels was the coach look up the stats. They had to throw, they really weren't running the ball that successfully at the beginning of this year, and Orton (who is a better passer than Tebow) threw the ball a lot more. Now with the same EXACT team all of a sudden they can run the ball, they have been averaging almost 200+ yards a game on the ground, and you think that has nothing to do with Tebow? Also, Orton turned the ball over a ton, which is something Tebow doesn't do, and shouldn't be overlooked.

I get that running the ball and grinding the clock shortens the game, and that is what Denver is trying to do. You still have to execute and pick up first downs, and play field position football. Their D looks nowhere near the same D at the beginning of the year, they look pretty good.

I agree, it is hard to play from behind in this style, but right now what they are doing is working. We shall see, they just beat their entire division Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers on the road (I know the division isn't great, but it wasn't last year either), that has not happened very often in Denver, where they have had some pretty darn good teams.

Q, while I agree about your argument that Denver's recent success can be attributed to time of possession, please look at the bolded part above. In order to win the ToP you still have to get first downs. 3 and outs while running 3 times doesn't run much clock off. You still have to get first downs and Tebow (and the rest of his offense are doing exactly that).

Is Tebow a good passer? NO, not right now.
Is Tebow a good QB in this offense? YES, good enough.

[ManInTheMirror]

How, both give credit to the defense
It's not worth explaining to you. Even if I did you probably still wouldn't get it. Just reread your two paragraphs over and over again and it just might come to you.

[SpastikMooss]

Its kind of a double edged sword with Tebow...If he continues to play like he is now, throwing the ball 10-15 times a game, and they keep winning, people will continue to say Tebow doesn't have it as a QB, which IMO isn't an unfair judgement....If Tebow Starts throwing the ball 30-40 times a game like Orton, the team will go back to their 1-4 like selves since the other teams offense would be on the field so much longer..

Thus the irony of it all is that Tebow can prob only win by playing the way he does, thus the critisims will never end..

I think Tebow is a great player to have on a team, and needs to be a part of the offense, a QB tho? idk yet

Q, while I agree about your argument that Denver's recent success can be attributed to time of possession, please look at the bolded part above. In order to win the ToP you still have to get first downs. 3 and outs while running 3 times doesn't run much clock off. You still have to get first downs and Tebow (and the rest of his offense are doing exactly that).

Is Tebow a good passer? NO, not right now.
Is Tebow a good QB in this offense? YES, good enough.

Both the above statements added together = :)!

[Qwasian]

tebow doesn't execute or pick up alot of first downs, that's the thing, he doesn't have big throwing numbers or a huge amount of conversions...... if he did, i'd definately give him his props, he just doesn't have that.

what tebow does is run wayyyyy more than they did with kyle orton, which pretty much eliminates turn-overs in the form of interceptions.

all they needed to do with orton was eat clock and not turn the ball over, the defense was already crushing, and that's what they got with tebow, someone who could eat up more clock and protect the football because it's almost always a run.

he is not executing at all though, that couldn't be more wrong, check the stats.

[Cubs_rock21]

I watch EVERY Denver game, they COULD NOT run the ball at all when McDaniels was the coach look up the stats. They had to throw, they really weren't running the ball that successfully at the beginning of this year, and Orton (who is a better passer than Tebow) threw the ball a lot more. Now with the same EXACT team all of a sudden they can run the ball, they have been averaging almost 200+ yards a game on the ground, and you think that has nothing to do with Tebow? Also, Orton turned the ball over a ton, which is something Tebow doesn't do, and shouldn't be overlooked.

I get that running the ball and grinding the clock shortens the game, and that is what Denver is trying to do. You still have to execute and pick up first downs, and play field position football. Their D looks nowhere near the same D at the beginning of the year, they look pretty good.

I agree, it is hard to play from behind in this style, but right now what they are doing is working. We shall see, they just beat their entire division Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers on the road (I know the division isn't great, but it wasn't last year either), that has not happened very often in Denver, where they have had some pretty darn good teams.


I never said Tebow wasn't doing anything, his style of play is why they are winning, but thats also ironically why he's getting all the critisim...You cant honestly say Tebow is playing well...hes playing with heart..Defense is killing it...

Orton turned the ball over and Tebow didnt, but Tebow passes 10 times a game, and its hard to throw an interception when you overthrow everyone on the field by 10 yards

[bigsmoot2]

Alright, I am out of this thread, we all are entitled to our opinions on this situation.

I am just happy to see my life-long team winning some games and in the middle of the playoff race, when at 1-4 and dead in the water did not seem possible.

We shall see for the rest of the year what happens, if they could make the playoffs that would be quite an accomplishment from 4-12 and the 32nd ranked D last year.

They had a good draft last year, and probably need another one this year to keep it going in the right direction!

GO BRONCOS! :)!

[cdizz]

Ok maybe I'm just naive here, but I thought the whole point of playing the game was to win. So what if his numbers are less than stellar? He's winning, period. Some of you are pretty much ignoring the fact that the Broncos were 4-14 under Orton. And if I am hearing this argument correctly if he had a completion percentage over 60%, because his td to int ratio is pretty damn good, but had a losing record as a starter he would be a good qb? Hello people he is playing behind the same 1-4 offense and defense Orton was minus the best wr on the team. Offenses are tailored around the cogs in the machine, i.e. Tebow's style of play that is winning. Is he doing it alone, hell no, but he deserves a lot of credit because he is doing it as an unconventional qb with a shite load of criticism from everywhere. Some of you are acting like their defense is like the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

[bigsmoot2]

Ok maybe I'm just naive here, but I thought the whole point of playing the game was to win. So what if his numbers are less than stellar? He's winning, period. Some of you are pretty much ignoring the fact that the Broncos were 4-14 under Orton. And if I am hearing this argument correctly if he had a completion percentage over 60%, because his td to int ratio is pretty damn good, but had a losing record as a starter he would be a good qb? Hello people he is playing behind the same 1-4 offense and defense Orton was minus the best wr on the team. Offenses are tailored around the cogs in the machine, i.e. Tebow's style of play that is winning. Is he doing it alone, hell no, but he deserves a lot of credit because he is doing it as an unconventional qb with a shite load of criticism from everywhere. Some of you are acting like their defense is like the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

is what I have been trying to say, thank you! :D

And that is my last post in the thread! GO BRONCOS! :)!

[ajlaxmn]

Tebow isn't 5-1, the broncos have won 5 with him at QB. The Defense is the MAJOR reason they are winning. The offense scores jus enough, running the ball 40 times your bound to get gold. It's he defense, which is why he is maybe getting criticized so much, he's getting a lot of credit, granted he should get some, bit the Derense deserves MOST of the credit.

[Qwasian]

Tebow gets so much kickback because when a team switches the style of play and wins, yet you don't even perform better than the guy they just cut off the team, that's bad play, he has the same amount of TD's that orton did, just less turnovers.... he's played worse than orton, who they cut, he just protected the ball better, that's his only stat is holding onto the ball that is even effective at all about him.

if they would have ran this style of offense with orton, they would have done better, because he wouldn't have been turning over the ball, and his stats are better.

tebow is getting prop's for something he's not doing...... a new gameplan can be attributed to tebow, but the team is playing in a new style, he's not excelling in that style at all.... which is crazy because it's how he likes to play. he should be running the lights out and creating all types of plays in this offense. it's his thing yet he still has very poor stats.

you turn on ESPN and he's the golden child simply because the team won, but he can't even hardly score.

Von Miller saved tebow's A** yesterday by making a play to push the kicker back so he missed a field goal...... I mean completely saved this guy and nobody cares.... the kicker kicked a field goal to win because tebow failed to convert 4 or 5 times back to back........

how does a fan look at that and give tebow props? I give the kicker props and von miller prop's but tebow didn't win that game at all...... he should have EASILY made a few plays and got a touchdown on those last 4 or 5 drives but he couldn't do it. over & over & over again.

if you want to give von miller props, i'll support that all day, but I can't give someone any prop's who didn't make any plays to amount to anything.

[SpastikMooss]

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

is what I have been trying to say, thank you! :D

And that is my last post in the thread! GO BRONCOS! :)!

The point a lot of people are making is that the Broncos didn't just switch QB's - they also switched the focus of their offense, many of the offensive plays they use, and the defense has really come along. Those changes have also helped, and they may have helped with or without Tebow.

For example, if the defense gave up 15 points a game to every early season opponent, then Orton would have been 4-1.

If they had run the ball more against the Titans and ESPECIALLY the Raiders (Moreno led the team with 22 yards that game - insultingly low), the Broncos may have won those games, especially since their time of possession would have gone up, giving those teams less time to score.

The Broncos are winning and Tebow is certainly a part of it. But what you guys seem to be missing is that it is not all Tebow. It is also changes, changes in the philosophy of the offense and in the strength of the d. And people like me who liked Orton don't see why these changes couldn't have occurred with him at the helm. No way Orton was gonna run the option, but you can't tell me they couldn't have been more run focused with a stronger defense with Orton at QB.

Case in point - Orton's rookie year with the Bears he went 10-5. Why did he win 10 games? His d stepped up and his run game (led by Thomas Jones) bailed him out a lot. It's not because Orton was an awesome QB who just wins baby. Orton was a part of it but not all of it.

[ManInTheMirror]

Tebow isn't 5-1, the broncos have won 5 with him at QB. The Defense is the MAJOR reason they are winning. The offense scores jus enough, running the ball 40 times your bound to get gold. It's he defense, which is why he is maybe getting criticized so much, he's getting a lot of credit, granted he should get some, bit the Derense deserves MOST of the credit.
It seems to me that most of us are in agree-ance but just don't realize it, due to the out-of-hand way things seem to go when Q gets involved (no offense to you sir). Nobody thinks Tebow deserves all the credit. A select few are saying he should get none of the credit and most of the Tebow side in this thread are just trying to say yea he should get some of the credit. I'm sorry I don't care how fantastic a defense could be- without a QB back there the team would lose. Tebow could be fumbling left and right, he could be screwing things up but he's not. Not only that he is helping his team along the way to victory. He does deserve some credit.

[SpastikMooss]

It seems to me that most of us are in agree-ance but just don't realize it, due to the out-of-hand way things seem to go when Q gets involved (no offense to you sir). Nobody thinks Tebow deserves all the credit. A select few are saying he should get none of the credit and most of the Tebow side in this thread are just trying to say yea he should get some of the credit. I'm sorry I don't care how fantastic a defense could be- without a QB back there the team would lose. Tebow could be fumbling left and right, he could be screwing things up but he's not. Not only that he is helping his team along the way to victory. He does deserve some credit.

My thing is just the Orton angle. You talk to a lot of Broncos fans, and they act like this team was on its way to a 4-12 season (which it very well may have been). They're now on the way to a 9-5 or 10-6 season...and while Tebow has helped, that's not all Tebow.

My beef is more with John Fox. If the team finishes in the playoffs, why didn't he go more run focused earlier in the year with Orton at QB? Instead they dicked around for 5 games and then when Tebow came in and they changed stuff around they finally realized the identity of the team was better as a run team. I think it always was, and I'm not sure why no one in Denver realized that potential. Tebow's greatest asset to the team in that sense could be showing a coaching staff its team strengths. Otherwise they'd still have McGahee with 10 carries and Orton throwing 50 times a game.

[cdizz]

Tebow gets so much kickback because when a team switches the style of play and wins, yet you don't even perform better than the guy they just cut off the team, that's bad play, he has the same amount of TD's that orton did, just less turnovers.... he's played worse than orton, who they cut, he just protected the ball better, that's his only stat is holding onto the ball that is even effective at all about him.

if they would have ran this style of offense with orton, they would have done better, because he wouldn't have been turning over the ball, and his stats are better.

tebow is getting prop's for something he's not doing...... a new gameplan can be attributed to tebow, but the team is playing in a new style, he's not excelling in that style at all.... which is crazy because it's how he likes to play. he should be running the lights out and creating all types of plays in this offense. it's his thing yet he still has very poor stats.

you turn on ESPN and he's the golden child simply because the team won, but he can't even hardly score.

Ok so now your basically saying that any qb can run this style of offense? And you are also saying that turnovers aren't a big deal?? Orton played better? Really? I'm not even a Tebow fan, but you have to give respect when it is due and your argument is pretty off base and lacking facts. First off when you say he's not excelling at running the ball you couldn't be more wrong: 78 att for 455 yds, avg 5.8 per w/ 3 td's. That's more yds per carry than ANY rb in the league right now. Second if Orton was playing better than Tebow he'd still be starting, hello he was the starter from day one and EVERYONE was against Tebow getting the stating nod. So let's look at some more numbers shall we? Orton - att 155/ comp 91 for a 58.7 completion %, with 8 td's and 7 int's. Tebow att 143/ comp 65 for a 45.5 completion %, with 8 td's to 1 int. So saying he doesn't throw as much may be true, but saying he barely throws and all he does is run is just plain false. And let's not even compare rushing yds or td's because there is no comparison. Orton 1-4, Tebow 5-1. So again if I am hearing your argument correctly a starting qb is only good if his completion percentage is good? Turnovers and wins mean squat right?

Taking it a bit further let's look at the defense and time of possession everyone is trying to say is the sole reason for the wins. TOP is pretty much a moot point and it's been pretty even as bigsmoot2 already pointed out which puts a damper on that argument of yours. Defensive stats:

Pre-Tebow:
PA-YDS
1 09/12/11 OAK 23-289
2 09/18/11 CIN 22-382
3 09/25/11 @TEN 17-333
4 10/02/11 @GB 43-507
5 10/09/11 SD 29-418

Post-Tebow

7 10/23/11 @MIA 15-267
8 10/30/11 DET 33-376
9 11/06/11 @OAK24-416
10 11/13/11 @KC 10-258
11 11/17/11 NYJ 13-318
12 11/27/11 @SD 13-344

Not exactly a whole lot of difference there is there? Yes I'm sure you will point out the four games of holding the opponent to under 20, but let's get real MIA, KC, NYJ, and SD haven't really been lighting up the scoreboard have they? Not taking away anything from the defense, because again it takes an entire team to win a game, but like I said earlier it's not the 2000 Ravens walking out there every Sunday is it? So for people to not give credit where it is due either don't watch the game or just don't like the way he plays the game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with running an offense around a qb, because quite frankly it's how the game is played. It obviously works and if Orton could have ran that style I'm sure he would have.

[Qwasian]

he deserves credit for guiding them in a style of play, and not turning the football over...... I agree.....

however, this is not what anyone wants overall in a football program, winning in this style is not enough, and if this is all he can do, even after adjusting the offense to him, they are in a bad position, they can't build a team around what he does.

this style of offense can get you more wins that what you had before, no doubt about that..... but it also gets you that tony romo type of situation where you get all the way to the peak of the mountain and get destroyed because he makes a stupid play.

we are talking about a guy that can't convert 4 or 5 times in row at the end of the game against the chargers...........that is cause for concern.

tebow in college had like a 200 rating... they drafted him based on what he did in college, and now that they see he is unable to do this in the NFL because everybody is bigger, faster, stronger, they feel like it's a total loss, he's not someone you can build around because he has a certain capped off level he can get to. he is grossly limited as to what plays you can do with him.

the trick is great for now, but when you hit the playoffs and get smashed into the ground is what elway & the coach are looking at, it's a great little gimmick and great to turn the team around for the time being, but they ultimately look to build a football program that will take them to a championship, and you can't really do that with tebows current level of play. I think if they could keep a consistant running game and just really build with some great tight ends he could be great.... just focus on that line and tight ends. forget the passing game almost completely while he's in there and just smash mouth it and it might could work. but they need to be alot more solid on the offense and score more.

[Qwasian]

how can time of possession be a moot point? because you know your wrong? and time of possession was up with tebow? lol........... hilarious.

is there a big difference in yards? no, but there is a difference in relation to T.O.P. and yards......the time of possession is more in all the tebow games, and the yards by the other team is less in all tebow games......... and we are talking about a team that's just barely winning..... I mean they won by a field goal in overtime where they didn't convert over & over and the other team missed a field goal......... so those factors are paramount in that type of game. it doesn't take much at all when you have low scoring games. it takes just enough to keep that other team from scoring that extra field goal or touch down..... but when you get to playoff teams who you can't stop, you will lose everytime. that's the whole point.

[ManInTheMirror]

So basically you are saying the Timmy Tebows are not going to go down as the greatest team ever. We agree with you. You are also saying they won't win the Super Bowl this year. We agree with you. But these have been some damn fun games to watch, and fun is the entire reason I enjoy football.

[cdizz]

he deserves credit for guiding them in a style of play, and not turning the football over...... I agree.....

however, this is not what anyone wants overall in a football program, winning in this style is not enough, and if this is all he can do, even after adjusting the offense to him, they are in a bad position, they can't build a team around what he does.

this style of offense can get you more wins that what you had before, no doubt about that..... but it also gets you that tony romo type of situation where you get all the way to the peak of the mountain and get destroyed because he makes a stupid play.

we are talking about a guy that can't convert 4 or 5 times in row at the end of the game against the chargers...........that is cause for concern.

tebow in college had like a 200 rating... they drafted him based on what he did in college, and now that they see he is unable to do this in the NFL because everybody is bigger, faster, stronger, they feel like it's a total loss, he's not someone you can build around because he has a certain capped off level he can get to. he is grossly limited as to what plays you can do with him.

the trick is great for now, but when you hit the playoffs and get smashed into the ground is what elway & the coach are looking at, it's a great little gimmick and great to turn the team around for the time being, but they ultimately look to build a football program that will take them to a championship, and you can't really do that with tebows current level of play. I think if they could keep a consistant running game and just really build with some great tight ends he could be great.... just focus on that line and tight ends. forget the passing game almost completely while he's in there and just smash mouth it and it might could work. but they need to be alot more solid on the offense and score more.

Yea I don't think the record books have and an asterisk next to the W's with *Tebow didn't play like a conventional qb, or even how they won the game or by how much, but anyway:rolleyes:. Secondly, the comparison to Romo is waaay far off the guy has 2 turnovers in 6 games VERY un-Romo like, he doesn't turn the ball over and that is a huge contributing factor to the wins. Lastly, he's still young and he's proving pretty much everyone who said he couldn't win at this level wrong. Does he have a TON of things to work on absolutely, but to say that he's not going to succeed after only a small sample size of his play is just plain ignorant. And TOP IS a moot point when your argument is that it was so great that it was the only reason for the difference in wins. If it was the proof would be in the pudding. You do realize that when a qb throws int's consistently that TOP is consistently going to be in the other team's favor right? I guess by your standards a qb who is a pure passer, but consistently turns the ball over is better because that's "normal" right?

[Qwasian]

So basically you are saying the Timmy Tebows are not going to go down as the greatest team ever. We agree with you. You are also saying they won't win the Super Bowl this year. We agree with you. But these have been some damn fun games to watch, and fun is the entire reason I enjoy football.

the point is alot of people are trying to convince everyone else that he is a solid QB, he's just not..........

McGahee ran for over 100 yards yesterday, von miller made play after play yesterday.... tebows level of play is not high, his QB rating is 80, as people know and get used to what he wants to do, they will start blocking it, he ran 22 times yesterday for only 67 yards, from the QB position which is typically a nice weapon for someone who can run because you can fool the defense with it. at 22 times he should have easily been over 100 yards to be a solid runner on the team.

[SpastikMooss]

If Orton was playing better than Tebow he'd still be starting

This is my issue with the Tebow argument...it often assumes Orton sucks. Much like Tebow, Orton is good in the right circumstances. Much like Tebow, those circumstances usually revolve around a running focused team - Orton seems to be more of a game manager who will make some big throws but will throw too many picks if you throw too much.

Most of all, like Tebow Orton HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY IN DENVER. But with Orton the Broncos employed a pass first attack instead that didn't work since it didn't fit his style. With Tebow Denver had to go more run and they realized that was their identity and ran with it.

All I'm saying - if the Broncos run the ball more early in the year, they win more games (maybe 3-2 or 4-1) and Tebow never gets on the field. When they make Orton throw 40-50 times a game, interceptions happen, people blame the QB (as they do) and Tebow comes into the fold.

So love Tebow all you want. But be fair to Orton. Just as the winning now isn't all Tebow, the losing then wasn't all Orton. It was a young defense getting its feet wet and going through early trials. It was a run game that wasn't being utilized enough. Etc. Etc.

[Qwasian]

Yea I don't think the record books have and an asterisk next to the W's with *Tebow didn't play like a conventional qb, or even how they won the game or by how much, but anyway:rolleyes:. Secondly, the comparison to Romo is waaay far off the guy has 2 turnovers in 6 games VERY un-Romo like, he doesn't turn the ball over and that is a huge contributing factor to the wins. Lastly, he's still young and he's proving pretty much everyone who said he couldn't win at this level wrong. Does he have a TON of things to work on absolutely, but to say that he's not going to succeed after only a small sample size of his play is just plain ignorant. And TOP IS a moot point when your argument is that it was so great that it was the only reason for the difference. If it was the proof would be in the pudding. You do realize that when a qb throws int's that TOP is consistently going to be in the other team's favor? I guess by your standards a qb who is a pure passer, but consistently tunrs the ball over is better because that's "normal" right?


i'm just going by what he plays like....... he gets stopped constantly, against poor teams. what would you expect me to say? he's great? he hasn't been great.. when his level of play is great, or he makes great plays i'll say he's great, he's not doing that......

great defense, or high powered offense and he loses by default..... am I supposed to be proud of a player who can't convert against the 4-7 chargers?

the bronco's kicked 3 field goals yesterday.

I like to give props to people who actually have excellent play so to the denver kicker my hats off to you, mcgahee yep, von miller, yep.........

tim tebow? give me something to cheer for.. because that grossly overthrowing your receivers and QB sneaks 100 times a game ain't going to get it for me.

[Qwasian]

This is my issue with the Tebow argument...it often assumes Orton sucks. Much like Tebow, Orton is good in the right circumstances. Much like Tebow, those circumstances usually revolve around a running focused team - Orton seems to be more of a game manager who will make some big throws but will throw too many picks if you throw too much.

Most of all, like Tebow Orton HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY IN DENVER. But with Orton the Broncos employed a pass first attack instead that didn't work since it didn't fit his style. With Tebow Denver had to go more run and they realized that was their identity and ran with it.

All I'm saying - if the Broncos run the ball more early in the year, they win more games (maybe 3-2 or 4-1) and Tebow never gets on the field. When they make Orton throw 40-50 times a game, interceptions happen, people blame the QB (as they do) and Tebow comes into the fold.

So love Tebow all you want. But be fair to Orton. Just as the winning now isn't all Tebow, the losing then wasn't all Orton. It was a young defense getting its feet wet and going through early trials. It was a run game that wasn't being utilized enough. Etc. Etc.


exactly..... it they made tebow play like orton, he'd have so many interceptions and losses it would be crazy.... they would have easily lost every single game.

[cdizz]

exactly..... it they made tebow play like orton, he'd have so many interceptions and losses it would be crazy.... they would have easily lost every single game.

Ok so let's look at the numbers even more. McGahee had 3 out of 5 games rushing over a 100 yds with Orton as the starter (1-4) and only 2 out of 6 with Tebow, and with him being out for one of those games (5-1). But no one is disputing that a team needs a solid running game either. You obviously don't look at stats much because Tebow's attempts are only lower by a small amount in comparison to Orton's minus one game. I don't think you are realizing that Orton was 4-14 as the starter! The defense getting their feet wet? The numbers are almost identical! You also can not ignore the teams they played either. And BTW teams kick field goals because it is part of the game. Teams can not go 3 and out and kick 80 yd field goals, they have to move the ball down the field. Nobody is saying Tebow is the next Steve Young, but your arguments about Orton vs. Tebow and why the team is 5-1 under him are pretty bad.

[Qwasian]

the funny part about what your saying is you don't even realize those are all the reasons that tebow is bad..... when you say his stats are the same or lower than ortons, THEY CUT ORTON..... that should let you know something....... they taylored the offense around tebow and he still can't do any better than orton stat wise.... however the rest of the team, especially the defense has stepped up and the time of possession for the broncos is up and it's causing them to win in a weak schedule.. this absolutely won't work against solid teams. if they played top tier teams all season they'd have the colts record.

people are trying to give a guy credit that got stomped by the lions and cant convert numerous times to win against the chargers.....

the team won the game without tebow all together, it's not many decent QB's who can't throw 1 TD.........

[cassius423]

I agree with some and disagree with others...

Is Tebow a "Great" QB...No
Is he a good team "Leader"...Yes
Does he "Elevate" the play around him...Yes
Does he lose games...No
Were they winning before he became the starter....No
The most important question is "Are the Broncos Winning with him at QB?'...Yes

I don't think he will ever be a Pro Bowl QB, but I am rooting for him as there is something special about the kid.

Very well said!! Tebow doesn't have the best stats but the only one that really matters is pretty impressive: 5-1! The kid is such a hard worker I think he will become a better passer in time. But yes their defense does indeed deserve alot of credit also!! Von Miller is a beast!!

[SpastikMooss]

Ok so let's look at the numbers even more. McGahee had 3 out of 5 games rushing over a 100 yds with Orton as the starter (1-4) and only 2 out of 6 with Tebow, and with him being out for one of those games (5-1).

You're looking at the wrong stat. It's not yards, it's carries, aka distribution of the ball in the offense. Here is a crystal clear look at my points:

Team Carries with Orton:
Raiders - 13 (Loss by 3)
Bengals - 36 (Win by 2)
Titans - 23 (Loss by 3)
Packers - 23 (Loss by 26)
Chargers - 23 (Loss by 5)

Team Carries with Tebow:
Dolphins - 40 (Win by 3)
Lions - 30 (Loss by 35)
Raiders - 39 (Win by 14)
Chiefs - 55 (Win by 7)
Jets - 34 (Win by 4)
Chargers - 51 (Win by 3)

Easy equation. Carry more than 31 times = Win. Carry 30 times or less = Loss. With Orton they could have run more but they didn't, and they lost 4 games, 3 very close games where more running (especially that Raiders opening day game) could have been the difference. With Tebow they've run a ton more and the difference has been victories.

YES TEBOW HELPS.

But Orton could've won with this philosophy too, IMO. I'm not saying Orton could run the spread. I'm saying the Broncos are a good run first, strong defense team whose strengths were totally missed by the coaches until they had to change to fit Tebow's skill set. It wasn't Orton's fault the Broncos went 1-4. Orton did the best he could trying to pass a ton in a run first team. The team now is better set up to win, with or without Tebow, because they're playing to their running strengths instead of forcing the passing issue. Now they use the pass to complement the run whereas before the pass was the first focus.

[pac213up]

Most of the credit should go where it belongs....the Broncos defense.

[Qwasian]

You're looking at the wrong stat. It's not yards, it's carries, aka distribution of the ball in the offense. Here is a crystal clear look at my points:

Team Carries with Orton:
Raiders - 13 (Loss by 3)
Bengals - 36 (Win by 2)
Titans - 23 (Loss by 3)
Packers - 23 (Loss by 26)
Chargers - 23 (Loss by 5)

Team Carries with Tebow:
Dolphins - 40 (Win by 3)
Lions - 30 (Loss by 35)
Raiders - 39 (Win by 14)
Chiefs - 55 (Win by 7)
Jets - 34 (Win by 4)
Chargers - 51 (Win by 3)

Easy equation. Carry more than 31 times = Win. Carry 30 times or less = Loss. With Orton they could have run more but they didn't, and they lost 4 games, 3 very close games where more running (especially that Raiders opening day game) could have been the difference. With Tebow they've run a ton more and the difference has been victories.

YES TEBOW HELPS.

But Orton could've won with this philosophy too, IMO. I'm not saying Orton could run the spread. I'm saying the Broncos are a good run first, strong defense team whose strengths were totally missed by the coaches until they had to change to fit Tebow's skill set. It wasn't Orton's fault the Broncos went 1-4. Orton did the best he could trying to pass a ton in a run first team. The team now is better set up to win, with or without Tebow, because they're playing to their running strengths instead of forcing the passing issue. Now they use the pass to complement the run whereas before the pass was the first focus.




this pretty much trumped any arguement that can be put up in tebows defense..........excellent point

[ManInTheMirror]

this pretty much trumped any arguement that can be put up in tebows defense..........excellent point
Yes it totally does being that Orton or whatever RB would be getting the same (or even more) YPC as Tebow.:rolleyes:

[cdizz]

You're looking at the wrong stat. It's not yards, it's carries, aka distribution of the ball in the offense. Here is a crystal clear look at my points:

Team Carries with Orton:
Raiders - 13 (Loss by 3)
Bengals - 36 (Win by 2)
Titans - 23 (Loss by 3)
Packers - 23 (Loss by 26)
Chargers - 23 (Loss by 5)

Team Carries with Tebow:
Dolphins - 40 (Win by 3)
Lions - 30 (Loss by 35)
Raiders - 39 (Win by 14)
Chiefs - 55 (Win by 7)
Jets - 34 (Win by 4)
Chargers - 51 (Win by 3)

Easy equation. Carry more than 31 times = Win. Carry 30 times or less = Loss. With Orton they could have run more but they didn't, and they lost 4 games, 3 very close games where more running (especially that Raiders opening day game) could have been the difference. With Tebow they've run a ton more and the difference has been victories.

YES TEBOW HELPS.

But Orton could've won with this philosophy too, IMO. I'm not saying Orton could run the spread. I'm saying the Broncos are a good run first, strong defense team whose strengths were totally missed by the coaches until they had to change to fit Tebow's skill set. It wasn't Orton's fault the Broncos went 1-4. Orton did the best he could trying to pass a ton in a run first team. The team now is better set up to win, with or without Tebow, because they're playing to their running strengths instead of forcing the passing issue. Now they use the pass to complement the run whereas before the pass was the first focus.
Yes I see what your getting at, but when your qb is turning the ball over and your playing from behind consistently you don't always have the luxury of running 30 plus times. IMO if Orton could have gotten it done he would have but his record with the broncos speaks for itself. There are a zillion variables that go into wins and losses but IMO Tebow is a big part of the recent success.

[Qwasian]

Yes it totally does being that Orton or whatever RB would be getting the same (or even more) YPC as Tebow.:rolleyes:

doesn't matter how many YPC you get, it matters how many carries because it controls the game/clock more. if you get 20 yards per carry and never score it's completely useless. because it doesn't control the clock and it doesn't make points.

[Qwasian]

Yes I see what your getting at, but when your qb is turning the ball over and your playing from behind consistently you don't always have the luxury of running 30 plus times. IMO if Orton could have gotten it done he would have but his record with the broncos speaks for itself. There are a zillion variables that go into wins and losses but IMO Tebow is a big part of the recent success.

the team doesn't believe that tim tebow style of football can get them to a superbowl and that's the bottom line, they wanted to run the orton style of football, fell back on tebow style of football, and will most likely try to get a new QB to run with the orton style again in the future, because that style wins superbowls...... who runs tebow style of football that's a superbowl winner in the last decade?

[SpastikMooss]

Yes it totally does being that Orton or whatever RB would be getting the same (or even more) YPC as Tebow.:rolleyes:

Lol. Very true, Tebow's runs are different than orton's would've been. I still say they should've carried it more in past games. There are games where they rushed less as a team than Tebow did in the Chargers game. That's a sin for this team.

but when your qb is turning the ball over and your playing from behind consistently you don't always have the luxury of running 30 plus times.

Well the Raiders game was 16-13 Raiders going into the 4th. Titans was 14-10 Broncos going into the 4th.

Titans is especially bad - final quarter play calls right here:

Pass, Run, Run, Run (Turnover on Downs at the Ten 1 - should've kicked the FG but eh that happens haha)
Titans Punt
Run, Pass (1st Down), Pass, Pass, Pass (Punt) - Drive takes just 2 minutes with a 4 points lead
Titans score a touchdown, go up 17-14 with 4:30 left
Run, Pass, Run, Pass, Pass, Sack, Pass, INT
Titans win

With Tebow, drive one would've either been a TD or they would've kicked the FG (this offense needs all the points they can get - Fox knows that after early errors like this). Drive two would've had at least two more runs instead of the 3 straight passes that went 3 and out, which would have killed much more than 2 minutes of clock. And the final drive would've had far more runs at the end of it, time on the clock be damned - the sack put the Broncos in second and long. Otherwise they were in borderline FG range and Prater could've kicked them to OT (would've been a 55 yarder which is tough, but 3-5 McGahee yards there and we're talking 50-52).

[ManInTheMirror]

doesn't matter how many YPC you get, it matters how many carries because it controls the game/clock more. if you get 20 yards per carry and never score it's completely useless. because it doesn't control the clock and it doesn't make points.
This makes all the sense in the world I tell you what. I bow down to your vast overpowering knowledge of football.:o

[SpastikMooss]

This makes all the sense in the world I tell you what. I bow down to your vast overpowering knowledge of football.:o

Lol obviously YPC is important too. But carries move the clock...incomplete passes don't. So 35 carries, say 40 seconds after every run, would be 23.33 minutes of clock right there. 25 carries, 40 seconds after every run, would be almost 16.67 minutes of clock time. That's 6+ minutes of clock a team can use up just by calling 10 more runs a game. Yeah there are variables like time outs and going out of bounds, but on average that's pretty big.

[ManInTheMirror]

I get the clock theory, but I was mainly touching on if you are averaging 20 per carry you will be scoring...

[SpastikMooss]

I get the clock theory, but I was mainly touching on if you are averaging 20 per carry you will be scoring...

Lol unless it's on one carry ;)

[ManInTheMirror]

True, but we are speaking on the subject of many carries. His comment holds no water.

[pch_1427]

I still refuse to give Tebow any credit. The guy is completing 50% of his passes and his throws look like he is in high school.

Give the credit to the defense, Tebow is a career back-up still

I beg to differ. The offense has more life under Tebow's passion and determination, regardless of the outcome of the stats. On the other hand, the D has really picked things up and has given the O chances at winning the games. They go hand in hand.

I also believe the D is rubbing off Tebow's grit as well.

[SpastikMooss]

True, but we are speaking on the subject of many carries. His comment holds no water.

Lol not disagreeing just being silly. It's kind of interesting arguing on the same side as Q.

[pch_1427]

You love him, you hate him, at the end of the day, you just gotta love him.

[nhamus]

pch are you kidding me? tebow sucks as a qb and will be replaced asap after the season. tebow fans see everything but the football side of him. its like they believe he is the second coming and faith is required to a fan of his. He just wins? haha so did VY and numerous other trash qbs. In the end he wont be a winner.

[cardinalscards4]

Go Timmy Boy :)!

[ManInTheMirror]

tebow sucks as a qb and will be replaced asap after the season.
Why after the season? Why not now or already?

[Cubs_rock21]

Denver needs denard robinson!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cubs_rock21]

ooo sportsnation I love your views on Tebow...


DENVER VON MILLERS!

[Qwasian]

I get the clock theory, but I was mainly touching on if you are averaging 20 per carry you will be scoring...

what sense does it make to use a joke or reference of 20 yards as fact for your debate.......... it was a figure of speech, obviously nobody in the situation is averaging 20 yards per carry, HELLO???

[SD-19-51]

what sense does it make to use a joke or reference of 20 yards as fact for your debate.......... it was a figure of speech, obviously nobody in the situation is averaging 20 yards per carry, HELLO???

I'm just going to say it.......I can't understand a thing you type.

[Qwasian]

I'm just going to say it.......I can't understand a thing you type.

you know whats the funny thing though, the entire NFL and the owners of the bronco's agree with me.... and think the fans such as yourself are complete morons.... so I wonder what does that tell you?

I feel pretty comfortable with my stance, being that it's the same stance of hall of famers, NFL teams, NFL's current players, and many ESPN analysts.

I mean do you just watch football with a beer hat on drooling yelling go tebow or what?

tebow overthrows his target by 5-10 yards on a regular basis, and can't convert against the chargers when it matters at the end of the game, do you atleast comprehend that portion? are you from america?

[pch_1427]

pch are you kidding me? tebow sucks as a qb and will be replaced asap after the season. tebow fans see everything but the football side of him. its like they believe he is the second coming and faith is required to a fan of his. He just wins? haha so did VY and numerous other trash qbs. In the end he wont be a winner.

Tebow may never be an NFL QB, but he is always a winner. I don't think I need to say more about that, as evident in the games he has played this season so far.

I don't agree with his skills, but I cannot question his leadership and pure will to win. If he is not back in Denver the following season, then good luck to him where ever he goes because he'll always have that mentality.

Like I said, you love him, you hate him, at the end you just gotta love him.

[Qwasian]

Tebow may never be an NFL QB, but he is always a winner. I don't think I need to say more about that, as evident in the games he has played this season so far.

I don't agree with his skills, but I cannot question his leadership and pure will to win. If he is not back in Denver the following season, then good luck to him where ever he goes because he'll always have that mentality.

Like I said, you love him, you hate him, at the end you just gotta love him.

I wonder how you will feel about him when he's no longer winning at the end of the season? what will be your story when the patriots stomp the broncos into the ground

[pch_1427]

I wonder how you will feel about him when he's no longer winning at the end of the season? what will be your story when the patriots stomp the broncos into the ground

I won't have a change in mind or anything. It can get frustrating watching him play because of the style, but if he is starring on the team that I have been watching since growing up then I'll root for him.

Even if he gets traded, released or whatever, I will still root for him because of the person he has become.

Plus, I wonder how many people said that same thing about the Jets stomping the Broncos? You can say all you want, but come game time, and especially if the game is close, you know what time it's going to be! TEBOW TIME!!!

[SD-19-51]

you know whats the funny thing though, the entire NFL and the owners of the bronco's agree with me(THAT'S A BOLD STATEMENT).... and think the fans such as yourself are complete morons(WELL, I DO STILL WATCH BASEBALL).... so I wonder what does that tell you(LET ME GUESS, TIM TEBOW SUCKS)?

I feel pretty comfortable with my stance, being that it's the same stance of hall of famers, NFL teams, NFL's current players, and many ESPN analysts(AGAIN, BOLD).

I mean do you just watch football with a beer hat on drooling yelling go tebow or what(I DON'T YELL)?

tebow overthrows his target by 5-10 yards on a regular basis, and can't convert against the chargers when it matters at the end of the game, do you atleast comprehend that portion(I THOUGHT DENVER WON)? are you from america(WHY, DO I WIN SOMETHING)

Now let me ask you a question........

Why do you hate a middle of the road, rookie QB so much? Did God piss in your cornflakes?

[Cubs_rock21]

I won't have a change in mind or anything. It can get frustrating watching him play because of the style, but if he is starring on the team that I have been watching since growing up then I'll root for him.

Even if he gets traded, released or whatever, I will still root for him because of the person he has become.

Plus, I wonder how many people said that same thing about the Jets stomping the Broncos? You can say all you want, but come game time, and especially if the game is close, you know what time it's going to be! TEBOW TIME!!!

Sanchez is lucky Tebow is in the league otherwise He would be getting all this heat...Sanchez is garbage

[pch_1427]

Sanchez is lucky Tebow is in the league otherwise He would be getting all this heat...Sanchez is garbage

Tebow or no Tebow, Sanchez is overrated.

[jeffreysc1]

the team doesn't believe that tim tebow style of football can get them to a superbowl and that's the bottom line, they wanted to run the orton style of football, fell back on tebow style of football, and will most likely try to get a new QB to run with the orton style again in the future, because that style wins superbowls...... who runs tebow style of football that's a superbowl winner in the last decade?

Ummm...The Ravens??

[Newbs]

I'm still finding it hard to believe in him still. Yea, I'm gonna get hate for it, I alrady do from my friends lol. Guess I'm just sippin on that Haterade real hard. Guess I'll just keep watching him make me look like a fool

[Cubs_rock21]

The only reason I could see the Broncos going after another QB is because

A) They have no reliable backup
B) Tebow has heart and plenty of potential in the offense but I think he would make a great TE who could also get involved in some trick plays
C) John Elway was a passing QB and I can tell he wants that style of offense to work

[Cubs_rock21]

Double post

[Shogun2049]

Wonder what people will say if the Broncos make it to the playoffs? Or if they actually pull off the unimaginable...making it to a Superbowl or even winning one with Tebow?

Wins don't have to be pretty, and under Tebow, they're not. But, a win is a win. Curtis Painter is a "conventional" QB, right? How's that working out? Or, what about Bradford? Oh, right.

How's this comparison. These are the QB stats for this weeks game:

Tebow: 9-18, 143 yds, 1 td
Rivers: 19-36, 188 yds, 1 td

19/36 is about 50% (18/36 IS 50%, so he got 1 more pass completion percentage wise than Tebow). Both their passing yards are under 200, and if you factor in Tebow attempting 36 passes, he would have more yardage than Philip Rivers. There's no way doubling your pass attempts would NOT pick up an additional 45 yards.

Now, I know it's a bad comparison because Rivers is garbage too. So is Leinart, Tarvaris Jackson, Skelton, Sanchez, and Painter. There's a lot of garbage QB's now. If Romo and Roethlisberger keep playing, their crapiness will just become more evident as well. If you think Ben is good, how did the Chiefs hold him to only 1 TD in a "cupcake" game? He's second in number of times sacked this year and consistently get's intercepted against.

Tebow. Is he good? Yes. Is he great? Not yet. This is his first year getting starts. How many other QB's were golden in their first year? None. Also, the Lockout created no offseason, so there was very limited amount of practice time this year. Next year will determine how good or bad he really is. It will also show his potential to develop.

Now, my opinion? Keep starting him as long as he's winning. After 1 or 2 more losses, throw in Brady Quinn, but let Tebow try being a Running Back every now and then. Seems it's more where he belongs.

[ccrab1984]

it's strange that someone would say in the clutch he's money? they are running an offense that slows the hell out of the clock and then playing defense so the other team can't score, has nothing to do with tebow being good at all, infact he's playing quite bad honestly. he's out there grossly overthrowing people and getting stuffed on runs, if you run a thousand times from QB position you will get a 20 yard run and a TD every now & then, it's nothing spectacular, they are basically playing keep away, has nothing to do with tebow being any good at football. he had 3 or 4 chances at the end of the chargers game to win it, and couldn't, they finally ended up kicking a field goal after several times trying, so I don't see how anyone could watch yesterdays game and say he's money at crunchtime?

he's like the opposite of cam newton, cam throws the lights out & never wins, tebow does nothing at all on the field and wins............lol

Guess that means we can't give Brady credit for the super bowl win when vinitari made field goal to win it.

I don't know why these threads get started really just leads to more people saying the same things bout tebow. Like Tommy Jackson said last night at first people said he couldn't win in NFL, then it was he couldn't win the division, now he can't win a super bowl I wouldn't bet one cent against this dude

[sooslow]

Wonder what people will say if the Broncos make it to the playoffs? Or if they actually pull off the unimaginable...making it to a Superbowl or even winning one with Tebow?

It will never, ever, ever, ever happen. I'll post a pic up of me eating my sock if it does.

Tebow is not a starting QB material. I seriously doubt he starts next year for the broncos. I could see them trading up and acquiring a QB in the draft. Can the man make plays? yes. Can the man throw the ball? (like my grandma). This new idea of having so many rushing options is only going to work for so long. Broncos ATM would be destroyed in the playoffs.

I will say that he brings excitement to their games. I love watching him play. That overtime game last week was a great game. I hope they make the playoffs, but it's a longshot.

[FreshBreak]

I wonder how you will feel about him when he's no longer winning at the end of the season? what will be your story when the patriots stomp the broncos into the ground

qNC8xRo9vXY&feature

[Grza]

This is exactly what is going on. Its not Tebow and his "being a winner", its his defense giving up so few points. of the 5 wins, 4 of them the opposing team scored 15 points or LESS! Even the Colts put up 19 points this past week!

People should be talking about Denver's defense, not their offense.

Coincidentally, the defense never played this good when Orton was the starter (or is it?). And I agree that the D has been playing incredible lately and they deserve more attention then Tebow. But its also not Tebows fault the media is so obsessed with him.

The media outlets see the polarizing nature of the guy (which I still find ridiculous) hence give him the coverage because it gets people to watch.

[Monsters]

ESPN NFL Coach asked Tim Tebow to talk to 'mates (http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7296591)

Some knowledgable people of Tebow's influence think very highly of him :)!

[lb_sa]

Coincidentally, the defense never played this good when Orton was the starter (or is it?). And I agree that the D has been playing incredible lately and they deserve more attention then Tebow. But its also not Tebows fault the media is so obsessed with him.

The media outlets see the polarizing nature of the guy (which I still find ridiculous) hence give him the coverage because it gets people to watch.

The reason why the defense is playing a lot better is because the drives are lasting longer because of so many plays. They run the ball so much that it gives the defense time to stay fresh. Tebow has also just raised everyone's game, his teammates love him.

[FreeMan12406]

I can't even to begin to attempt to wrap my head around the Tim Tebow hate. He is a proven winner, isn't out there shooting himself in stripclubs or punching women, and actually is winning games. How did that 'convential' QB work before Tebow? 4-14 is the answer. Its just baffling to me to hear the #@#@#@#@ the man gets when you turn on ESPN every morning. I just hope they keep winning and people shut their mouths.

[MI Rob]

Now let me ask you a question........

Why do you hate a middle of the road, rookie QB so much? Did God piss in your cornflakes?

What rookie QB did he mention in that post you quoted?

[Cubs_rock21]

I can't even to begin to attempt to wrap my head around the Tim Tebow hate. He is a proven winner, isn't out there shooting himself in stripclubs or punching women, and actually is winning games. How did that 'convential' QB work before Tebow? 4-14 is the answer. Its just baffling to me to hear the #@#@#@#@ the man gets when you turn on ESPN every morning. I just hope they keep winning and people shut their mouths.

Broncos only lost by 5 or less in all their games but the packers when Orton was at QB...The Defense just couldnt keep up cause Orton was a gunslinger who threw interceptions....Tebow is showing the world how good the Broncos defense is...Problem is Tebow is getting all the love...If elway has a shot to trade up for Barkley or Luck I bet he will...I just don't think Elway wants a QB of Tebow's nature...The type of game Tebow runs will not beat elite teams, and its the elite teams you have to beat to win the Superbowl.

If Tebow wins in weeks 14 and 15, I think you'll start to see people change their mind...Bears have one of the best defenses in the league and will make Tebow pass...Lucky for Tebow Hanie is garbage...Week 15 tho, its no excuses for anybody, thats the type of gunslinging team that will put the Broncos Defense to the Test

[redsoxx11]

Tebow is f-in horrible ! His QBR in the first 3 quarters is like 17, then by the time the 4th Q rolls around his D had managed to keep them in the game long enough he can finally manange to score a TD. Does anyone in thier right mind think that if Denver plays NE, GB, Pitt, Balt, SF, NYG, TX, Dal, ect that they would stand a chance at being able to keep those offenses to 7-14 points then come back in the 4th Q to win? Denver has played soft teams since thier bye week. And to be honest if the jets had played them on a regular week, there is no way the R. Ryan would not have had a better defense dreamed up to stop Tebow.. Imagine Broncos V. Steelers ... Palamalou would have 40 sacks...

[harryhudini]

Can someone teach me how to Tebow? Oh wait, I just have to look at all the other people in the league that have been doing it since that overrated momma's boy started doing it.

[redsoxx11]

Can someone teach me how to Tebow? Oh wait, I just have to look at all the other people in the league that have been doing it since that overrated momma's boy started doing it.

Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/WhyTebowSucks)

:")

[cjdelaney3]

no, I absolutely saw this........ did you not know that 15 yards rushing is nothing special at all?

by your own standards the win should go to McGahee for his big run yet you hear nothing about that..... and nothing about von miller......

but tebow runs for 15 yards and gets this crazy amount of props and credit for the win? what a joke.........

I can't really believe anybody even said that, "he rushed for 15 yards or so" that is hilarious to say the least.


they could have EASILY ran this style of offense with kyle orton and won the same way......

not saying tebow doesn't have some good plays, because he does....... but he lost that game yesterday in so many ways and then got bailed out with a field goal..... for people to give him any type of props for that is crazy to me......... he couldn't convert at all in the whole last part of the game or overtime.... but he's clutch? get real

If you truly believe this, you are nukkin futs.

[FreshBreak]

Since everyone else wants to repeat comments and thoughts, I will indulge also........

qNC8xRo9vXY&feature

[Qwasian]

If you truly believe this, you are nukkin futs.

if you don't know it's 100% true, you know absolutely NOTHING about football... it's kinda hilarious when people talk about tebow, because most of them know ZERO about the actual game of football...... they see a W in the win column and say HE MUST BE GOOD....... even the sun shines on a dogs a** every now & then though.

[ManInTheMirror]

even the sun shines on a dogs a** every now & then though.
Thing is 5 wins out of 6 games is not every now and then...

[Qwasian]

Thing is 5 wins out of 6 games is not every now and then...

that would be wonderful if it were 1 on 1 basketball..... however it's not...... it's a team game.

I mean? how about we give the MVP award to a kicker who never scored an extra point....... makes perfect sense..........

his level of play is LOW.... nothing more really needs to be said, all stats and level of play are LOW /end.

[Zacky1053]

The newest Tim Tebow analysis from a fantasy guru on SI.com. Even the naysayers gotta admit this is exaggerating right?

He's a top 10 fantasy QB, despite throwing the ball like a drunk Tyler Palko with a rotator cuff injury.

[cjdelaney3]

if you don't know it's 100% true, you know absolutely NOTHING about football... it's kinda hilarious when people talk about tebow, because most of them know ZERO about the actual game of football...... they see a W in the win column and say HE MUST BE GOOD....... even the sun shines on a dogs a** every now & then though.

Actually, I watch every single game. I'm a HUGE Broncos fan. Not a Tebow fan, but a Broncos fan. I said for over a year that I don't care who plays QB as long as it's not Orton. Orton is crap and I know that because I watched every single game he played QB for the Broncos from beginning to end. For you to say that Denver could do what they are doing with Orton at QB, you are the one who knows nothing about football. The ONLY reason their running game is working is because Tebow is a threat to keep the ball and run which takes defenders away from pursuing McGahee. Look at their ypc last year with Orton (same o-line outside of their now RC right tackle) they averaged <3 ypc. Don't act like you know football because you can see that Tebow doesn't throw the ball well. I don't even know if I like Tebow being Denver's QB, but I know I like seeing them win 5 out of 6.

If you don't like Tebow, that's fine. But to say that they could do the same thing with Orton that they are doing with Tebow is a completely ignorant statement. To say that and then say that someone else knows nothing about football just makes you look stupid.

[Cubs_rock21]

Other than this 5-1 start to the season,which is the only argument holding Tebow up right now.... what is the reason that you Tebow fans think he's the one that will take you to a superbowl in the future...AND if you could get Matt Barkley would you want the Broncos to go after him?

[Qwasian]

I have nothing against tebow, infact I would love to see him put up great numbers and would support him 100%, i'm just speaking completely honest, I don't ever see him do anything good on the field, everytime I see his plays or watch the game it just looks like he's failing miserably the whole game, and maybe pulls off a play here & there.

in my opinion alot of QB's could be a threat to take off & run, it's not like he's rushing for 200 yards a game or something.... it's not unrealistic to think many Qb's could gain his amount of yardage if they just lined up and ran all the time.

I absolutely stand behind the statement that they could have done the same thing with orton, all they would have had to do is completely focus on the running game and stop trying to pass at high volume and you would have had the same result, if not "BETTER".

when tebow converts his 3rd downs and passes at just a decent percentage on a regular basis and when it counts, i'll give him his props, but they kicked 3 field goals to win the chargers game bro....... against the "CHARGERS"....... he could only score one TD..... that's crazy, and failed multiple times at the end of the game to convert.

kyle orton was absolutely guilty of many bad throws, but to me, they shouldn't have forced the issue for him to throw so much.

the tebow situation and new found method of offense is great, they are winning, but the team is forever capped at winning in the regular season against mostly scrubs, as soon as they touch a playoff game they are done. teams will devise plans for his style of offense and crush him, the chargers basically shut the guy down, what do you think great defenses in playoff times are going to do? tebow will be lucky to score, all this will come to light by the end of the season, so you can continue to debate it if you like, but look this thread up week 1 of the playoffs and I bet you see exactly what I mean.

[Zacky1053]

I absolutely stand behind the statement that they could have done the same thing with orton, all they would have had to do is completely focus on the running game and stop trying to pass at high volume and you would have had the same result, if not "BETTER".

And this argument also works because people talk about how the defense has stepped its game up thanks in part to increased TOP by the offense.

In terms of running the same offense (or at least a more run-oriented offense) when Orton was in, my only argument against that is I think the threat of Tebow is one of the reasons that's working now. When the Broncos run the ball with Orton they know exactly who it's going to, the RB.

[Cubs_rock21]

And this argument also works because people talk about how the defense has stepped its game up...

Well, one of the main reasons that has been allowed to happen is because the Broncos are averaging an extra 7 or 8 minutes worth of time of possession under Tebow, meaning 7 or 8 fewer minutes the defense is on the field less also.

In terms of running the same offense (or at least a more run-oriented offense) when Orton was in, my only argument against that is I think the threat of Tebow is one of the reasons that's working now. When the Broncos run the ball with Orton they know exactly who it's going to, the RB.

The scores of the first 5 games with orton were decided by 5 points or less with the exception of the Packers....I wonder if Orton threw any interceptions in those games...Had Orton not passed as much, than no turnovers, maybe they would have started 4-1...never know...Orton is garbage, but even he started 6-0 last year

[redsoxx11]

Tebow is only semi effective from the 30 to the 30 sans the td against the jets, once the field isn't so spread out he has no where to go

[bigsmoot2]

The scores of the first 5 games with orton were decided by 5 points or less with the exception of the Packers....I wonder if Orton threw any interceptions in those games...Had Orton not passed as much, than no turnovers, maybe they would have started 4-1...never know...Orton is garbage, but even he started 6-0 last year

6-0 start was two years ago, and since then he was 6-21 as a starter. I am not saying it was all his fault, but I, like the above poster also, am a huge Denver fan, and they COULD NOT run the ball with Orton. They also played lifeless, TO fest football with him as their QB. The play that pretty much sums up KO as Denver's starting QB was this year in game 1 against the Raiders, when they were driving to possibly tie/win the game. He gets the snap and goes to throw and just drops the ball for a fumble, Raiders recover and that was pretty much game over. He was also about as unclutch a QB as there is with some really bad TOs, at really bad times.

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that Denver is gonna win the Super Bowl this year with Tebow, but the team is definitely playing better with him under center. I do find it interesting now that the naysayers who said Denver couldn't be anybody with him as their starter, are now pointing to a weak schedule as the reason that Denver is winning. Denver has the toughtest SOS in the AFC at .545 (tied with JAX). First, they wouldn't beat anybody, now they have to beat NE to justify anything, they can only play the teams that are on their schedule. NE is damn good, they aren't easy to beat for anybody, much less Denver.

I also don't know where I stand on him as being the QB of the future for Denver, but I am enjoying this nice little run that the DENVER BRONCOS are on. Tebow, McGahee, the OL, Decker, Prater, Von Miller, Champ, anyone on the team, all deserve credit for this nice little run, and I for one am going to enjoy it.

[Cubs_rock21]

Kyle Orton's Farewell to the Denver Broncos - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8_buda5vWo&feature=player_embedded)

[ManInTheMirror]

Qwasian you watching today?:D

[bigsmoot2]

Tebow looks pretty decent throwing the ball today, and the Denver D looks like, well, the old Denver D. Hurts not having Von Miller, hopefully they can pull this out!

But they just tied it up at 29!! Woot, woot !:)!

[Zacky1053]

Tebow looks pretty decent throwing the ball today, and the Denver D looks like, well, the old Denver D.

But they just tied it up at 29!! Woot, woot !:)!

Well the one thing I will say is the Vikes' pass D is amongst the worst in the league but at the same time, you could make the argument that Tebow SHOULD be able to play well against a team like this and he has (with limited passing opportunities).

[bigsmoot2]

Well the one thing I will say is the Vikes' pass D is amongst the worst in the league but at the same time, you could make the argument that Tebow SHOULD be able to play well against a team like this and he has (with limited passing opportunities).

Yeah, the Vikes pass D is pretty terrible, but Tebow has made some nice plays.

There were posters in this thread that were making the Denver D sound like the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens, and today they look like, well the Denver defense that I am accustomed to seeing. Minnesota is putting up over 400 yards without Adrian Peterson, and they don't have a good offense.

We shall see how it turns out, and they do miss Von Miller big time.

EDIT: On a side note I am going against Newton, L. McCoy and Harvin today in fantasy, needless to say I am getting demolished.

[jbellis74]

Nice pass......

[Zacky1053]

Nice pass......

Those are the passes he's been missing in his last few starts. Good news.

[sdtymer]

tie game.......

[bigsmoot2]

tie game.......

Let's hope the Denver D can get a stop, because they haven't for awhile. GO BRONCOS! :)!

[jbellis74]

Took the game off to put on Atlanta and Houston here in NY

[sdtymer]

wow int ponder...

[bigsmoot2]

Interception by goodman!!!

Go broncos! :)! :)! :)!

[bigsmoot2]

I don't give a $hit was anyone says, I watched the whole game and Tebow played damn well today. It was a team win, and the Denver O helped to pick up the Denver D today with a few quick answer TDs after the D gave up a TD!

Let the haters say, "it was against the Vikings, they stink, blah, blah, blah", but he played a solid game and made some nice plays.

At the end of the day they are 7-5 (6-1 since Tebow took over) and are now tied for first in the AFC West! GO BRONCOS! :)! :)! :)!

[pmannings#1fan]

I LOVE TEBOW he finally put up good numbers today yay.......bout time!!

[thewild3]

TEBOW does it again!!! God must be on his side.

[FreshBreak]

qNC8xRo9vXY&feature

[deltapi1049]

I love that Denver squeaks out a win against a team they should have beaten, and everyone continues the Tebowmania. He should get a medal for completing all of 10 passes against a team starting Cedric Griffin and Brandon Burton at CB and Mistral Raymond and Jamarca Sanford at safety. Havent heard of those guys? Its because two were on the practice squad to start the year, and Sanford is the THIRD string guy. He was playing a TERRIBLE defense and needed Ponder to make a rookie mistake to win the game.

[jimssouvenirs]

I love that Denver squeaks out a win against a team they should have beaten, and everyone continues the Tebowmania. He should get a medal for completing all of 10 passes against a team starting Cedric Griffin and Brandon Burton at CB and Mistral Raymond and Jamarca Sanford at safety. Havent heard of those guys? Its because two were on the practice squad to start the year, and Sanford is the THIRD string guy. He was playing a TERRIBLE defense and needed Ponder to make a rookie mistake to win the game.

Broncos defense was pretty bad in this one too though, so you can make that case as well.

[jbellis74]

Why hate? Cedric Giffin, Brandon Burton, Mistral Raymond and Jamarca Sanford are probably four better athletes than 90% of the people reading this thread if not more.



I love that Denver squeaks out a win against a team they should have beaten, and everyone continues the Tebowmania. He should get a medal for completing all of 10 passes against a team starting Cedric Griffin and Brandon Burton at CB and Mistral Raymond and Jamarca Sanford at safety. Havent heard of those guys? Its because two were on the practice squad to start the year, and Sanford is the THIRD string guy. He was playing a TERRIBLE defense and needed Ponder to make a rookie mistake to win the game.

[Qwasian]

I give tebow his props on the win today though, he performed alot better than previous games and they proved they can score a good amount of points if needed.......he did very well with his own style and game management today

[FreshBreak]

I give tebow his props on the win today though, he performed alot better than previous games and they proved they can score a good amount of points if needed.......he did very well with his own style and game management today

I respect that. Said very well

[kajshack]

You know a QB is bad when people cream their jeans over 10-15 for 202 yards.

[jbellis74]

You know a QB is bad when people cream their jeans over 10-15 for 202 yards.

How does that make him a bad QB? He missed a total of 5 passes and threw for over 200 yards with 2 TD's and 0 INT's

[purejd86p]

How does that make him a bad QB? He missed a total of 5 passes and threw for over 200 yards with 2 TD's and 0 INT's

It doesn't people just like to hate no matter it will never change.

[Qwasian]

You know a QB is bad when people cream their jeans over 10-15 for 202 yards.

his game management ability is not showing up on the stat sheet, but that's the most important part of whats he's doing...... 10-15 works if you run alot.

[vollybal]

I think this week's game made my card look so good today as tebow did very well and Percy Harvin might actually be showing signs of life!!!

65093
EMMITT SMOTH/TIM TEBOW/PERCY HARVIN MAGIC CHROME TRIPLE 5/5