Pro Bowl........Who should have been picked? Who should not have?

[ajlaxmn]

I'll be the first to say Phil Rivs and A Gates should not have, if Antonio had put together a full season, maybe he could have, but not with the production he had. Weddle on the other hand deserved it big time, gets a nice big contract and puts up his best season yet. Any thoughts on other snubs or questionable picks?

[dmott19]

Heres a link to the rosters.

NFL.com news: 2012 Pro Bowl rosters (http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story/09000d5d82578253/article/2012-pro-bowl-rosters)

[dmott19]

Happy for Earl Thomas getting the starting spot!

[redsoxx11]

Pats clean up with 8 !

[Sauceman]

VICTOR CRUZ!!

[cdub6238]

I'll be the first to say Phil Rivs and A Gates should not have, if Antonio had put together a full season, maybe he could have, but not with the production he had. Weddle on the other hand deserved it big time, gets a nice big contract and puts up his best season yet. Any thoughts on other snubs or questionable picks?

Who else exactly would you have in their place?

Chargers arent good this year...but Rivers is 2nd in AFC in yards, 3rd in completion %, 2nd in TD, 5th in rating...

i dont see who else you couldve put at the 3rd QB spot. Hasselbeck??

I can agree with Gates though. Keller/Cook/Daniels have more yards...they also all have a higher avg/catch...the only difference is Gates has 3 more TD.

Hernandez actually has way better stats than Gates, AND the same amount of TD.

Guess they just didnt wanna vote in 2 TE from the Pats.

[Sauceman]

Hard to believe Matt Stafford isnt on the list as well

[u_want_my_cards]

No Matt Stafford?? NO SUH? NO AVRIL? NO COREY WILLIAMS (ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED PLAYERS IN THE NFL).

REALLY??

[ilovethelakings]

I'm happy to see Kuhn and Justin Smith getting some love. Who would had guessed a season ago that the Niners would have as many Pro Bowl reps as the Pats and more than the Packers? It's funny to me how 2/3 of the Raiders picks are really good at kicking balls. Just saying....

[friarbolt]

Stafford will probably be one of the biggest snubs, but it's a tough conference for QB's. With Rodgers and Brees playing outta this world everyone else was battling for that third QB spot and as much as I hate Eli he had a good year.

[MasterPattie]

Hard to believe Matt Stafford isnt on the list as well

No Matt Stafford?? NO SUH? NO AVRIL? NO COREY WILLIAMS (ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED PLAYERS IN THE NFL).

REALLY??

Stafford will probably be one of the biggest snubs, but it's a tough conference for QB's. With Rodgers and Brees playing outta this world everyone else was battling for that third QB spot and as much as I hate Eli he had a good year.

Yeah lots of people think Stafford got the shaft: NFL.com news: Pats' Hernandez, Lions' Stafford among biggest Pro Bowl snubs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82577d56/article/pats-hernandez-lions-stafford-among-biggest-pro-bowl-snubs?module=HP11_hot_topics)

He's got 10 more TD passes, a higher QB rating, and more wins than Manning.

[dmott19]

No Matt Stafford?? NO SUH? NO AVRIL? NO COREY WILLIAMS (ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED PLAYERS IN THE NFL).

REALLY??

Suhs suspension and "dirty" play hurt him.

Avril has 11 sacks. Lower than all 3 DE's

Corey Williams was hurt by having Suh on the same line taking away votes.

I have no explanation for Stafford, guess it was just a toss up between him and Eli.

[WhacksPacks]

Yes I am biased.

Yes I believe Cam should have ABSOLUTELY made it as a RC

ETA: upon further review he is listed as an 'alternate'...or at least that's what the (un)reliable twitter-verse is saying..
which means he'll pronb be in Hawaii before it's said and done

[u_want_my_cards]

Yeah lots of people think Stafford got the shaft: NFL.com news: Pats' Hernandez, Lions' Stafford among biggest Pro Bowl snubs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82577d56/article/pats-hernandez-lions-stafford-among-biggest-pro-bowl-snubs?module=HP11_hot_topics)

He's got 10 more TD passes, a higher QB rating, and more wins than Manning.

Not only that... Stafford is ranked in the top 6 in every category in the NFL (expect for YDS/A). Its really messed up...

[hevsharpe1]

They're my team, but Ray Lewis and Ed Reed clearly made it by reputation and not the year they are having. Neither one of them are playing at a pro bowl level.

[u_want_my_cards]

Suhs suspension and "dirty" play hurt him.

Avril has 11 sacks. Lower than all 3 DE's

Corey Williams was hurt by having Suh on the same line taking away votes.

I have no explanation for Stafford, guess it was just a toss up between him and Eli.

Avril (who doesn't play every down like these guys because of the depth at DT/DE we have.)

11 sacks. 6 FF. 1 INT.

Babin.

18 sacks. 3 FF. 0 INT.

Maybe Im just biased, but I really think Avril deserved it more... It really doesn't just matter about sacks.

[Superman24742]

Geno Atkins......

[dmott19]

Avril (who doesn't play every down like these guys because of the depth at DT/DE we have.)

11 sacks. 6 FF. 1 INT.

Babin.

18 sacks. 3 FF. 0 INT.

Maybe Im just biased, but I really think Avril deserved it more... It really doesn't just matter about sacks.


Sacks is the sexy stat for that position. Thats why the other guys got more votes. Im not saying he didnt deserve it, just gave a reason as to why he didnt receive as many votes.

[bigzig]

Pat McAfee and Pat Angerer

[hreed2]

Id like to say Peppers got snubbed but all three of those DEs had monster years! Im just glad that Tillman and Corey Graham finally made a pro bowl! I met Graham once and dude was a really great guy and Tillmans been one of the most underrated players in the league for a long time.

[friarbolt]

They're my team, but Ray Lewis and Ed Reed clearly made it by reputation and not the year they are having. Neither one of them are playing at a pro bowl level.

Seriously how many years in a row is that for them? It feels like Ed Reed has started at AFC safety forever! Sucks as a Charger fan because Weddle gets the starter spot easily if a vet like Reed wasn't entrenched there.

[Mattyt777]

London Fletcher... leading the league in tackles = snubbed once again!

[sd_navarre]

Jordy Nelson got overlooked. I can easily see how this would happen playing for the Packers though.

[BroncosFAN#1]

Im happy Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil and Champ Bailey made it. Champ more than likely made it on his reputation but he doesnt have balls thrown his way much anymore. Von Miller did good this year as a rookie and Dumervil came on 4 or 5 games in but if he played well all year he wouldve been really good. I so think Suh shouldve been in. I hate Eli Manning but he had a great year and realistically there was only 1 spot for Qb in the NFC. With the ackers and Patriots having a ton of players in they could be replaced if they play in the SB. Cruz and Jordy couldve got in too

[DaBears 1985]

No Matt Stafford?? NO SUH? NO AVRIL? NO COREY WILLIAMS (ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED PLAYERS IN THE NFL).

REALLY??

Wild guess here....Lions fan?? I thought maybe Avril maybe should have made it....Suh had a sophomore slump, Stafford isnt better than Eli, never heard of Corey Williams before, so idk about him

[DaBears 1985]

Nelson shouldnt have been in, Tillman shouldnt be in, he had like 2 decent games all year with a horrible 2nd half.

Glad Briggs and Urlacher made it for 15 combined pro bowls for the 'backers, but Patrick Peterson over Hester? That has to be a joke come on

[bdubs3316]

Wild guess here....Lions fan?? I thought maybe Avril maybe should have made it....Suh had a sophomore slump, Stafford isnt better than Eli, never heard of Corey Williams before, so idk about him

Show me the stats that support how Eli had a better year than Stafford?

[cdub6238]

Quick question over the NFC roster...

Ware- 53 tackles, 18 sacks, 2 FF
Matthews- 50 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 INT, 3 FF

Briggs..100 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 2 FF

yet..no Aldon smith- 35 tackles 14 sacks 2 FF

so..Briggs has a lot more tackles than him, thats bout it. Ware has a few more tackles and few more sacks, so thats believable.

I know Aldon is more of a pass rusher so he might not be on the field as often..but other than that, i dont get it. Briggs doesnt even have the most tackles for a LB either.

[37Jetson]

I feel that Suh was unfairly snubbed. He was the most dominant Defensive Lineman this year hands down.

Nice to see 2 Western Michigan Broncos - Greg Jennings and Jason Babin plus Shippensburg University - John Kuhn well represented.

[Superhuskiefan1]

Marshawn Lynch got snubbed imo

[bjge_42]

I feel that Suh was unfairly snubbed. He was the most dominant Defensive Lineman this year hands down.

That's just laughable.

[cdub6238]

Marshawn Lynch got snubbed imo

Im more suprised Forte even made the cut...he was pretty good til he got injured but:

3 people with more yards....ton of people with more TD (he only had 3 rushing TD)...so on etc

[bigdaddyblue73]

JPP and Eli represent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jbellis74]

Yeah lots of people think Stafford got the shaft: NFL.com news: Pats' Hernandez, Lions' Stafford among biggest Pro Bowl snubs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82577d56/article/pats-hernandez-lions-stafford-among-biggest-pro-bowl-snubs?module=HP11_hot_topics)

He's got 10 more TD passes, a higher QB rating, and more wins than Manning.

Show me the stats that support how Eli had a better year than Stafford?

You have to take into consideration where they both play....for example Eli plays in the NFC East. There are no domes and no warm weather teams in that division. They played one game in a dome the entire season...whereas Stafford plays at least 8 games in a controlled environment free of the elements.

If there could be 4 QB's Stafford and Eli would have both made it

[cmcards22]

cam newton should of been on there hands down

[jbellis74]

Just to reiterate so nobody gets their panties in a bunch....I believe Stafford does deserve to make the pro bowl but so did Eli

And in the end.....does it really matter? If Stafford did make it and the Lions made it to the SB he would not be playing in the pro bowl anyway. The Pro Bowl is the most over hyped crappy all star game in the 4 major sports

[LBSB333]

I was glad to see Jimmy Graham on the roster. This year has been great for him, and he's a tough dude.

[freethrowtommy]

Let's put it this way... the NFC has way too many good quarterbacks to try to fill a 3 man roster.

Rodgers and Brees should be locks for two spots.

And then you have:
Manning, Stafford and Romo who all had good years and could be argued for a spot.

I would give Romo spot three based purely on stats.

In fact, if you go by QBR, Romo, Ryan and Vick are all above Stafford who is above Cutler and Manning.

NFL Total Quarterback Rating - National Football League - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-season/group/7)

[jrnelson]

Jason Witten??????

[ajlaxmn]

Seriously how many years in a row is that for them? It feels like Ed Reed has started at AFC safety forever! Sucks as a Charger fan because Weddle gets the starter spot easily if a vet like Reed wasn't entrenched there.

I hate how some players get in on reputation alone regardless of the season they have had. Weddle was dirty this year and definitely deserved the starting spot.

[lambeauleap87]

John Kuhn made it. That's all I care about.

[SpastikMooss]

People crying for Hester over Peterson really haven't watched Peterson play. Good as Hester has been for his career, Peterson has been up to snub this year as well. Peterson has 4 punt return (4!) touchdowns, including 2 game winners, to Hester's 2 (granted Hester has a third on kickoffs). Add in that Peterson is throwing in a great year on defense (he really probably could have made it over Tillman) and just...wow...dude had to make it somewhere. I'd say he's more than worthy at returner.

[Justin]

Jordy Nelson should have made it.

[Army19K]

Let's put it this way... the NFC has way too many good quarterbacks to try to fill a 3 man roster.

Rodgers and Brees should be locks for two spots.

And then you have:
Manning, Stafford and Romo who all had good years and could be argued for a spot.

I would give Romo spot three based purely on stats.

In fact, if you go by QBR, Romo, Ryan and Vick are all above Stafford who is above Cutler and Manning.

NFL Total Quarterback Rating - National Football League - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-season/group/7)

Vick did not have a good year, I dont even begin to understand how he can be ranked above Stafford on anything.

[studioU]

They're my team, but Ray Lewis and Ed Reed clearly made it by reputation and not the year they are having. Neither one of them are playing at a pro bowl level.

I totally agree.
Ray Lewis-88tckl 2sck 2ff 1int (made the roster)

Brian Cushing-110tckl 4sck 2ff 2int (not even an alternate!)

[bdubs3316]

Wild guess here....Lions fan?? I thought maybe Avril maybe should have made it....Suh had a sophomore slump, Stafford isnt better than Eli, never heard of Corey Williams before, so idk about him

You have to take into consideration where they both play....for example Eli plays in the NFC East. There are no domes and no warm weather teams in that division. They played one game in a dome the entire season...whereas Stafford plays at least 8 games in a controlled environment free of the elements.

If there could be 4 QB's Stafford and Eli would have both made it

Last I knew, the new stadium in Dallas had a roof on it.

[demboys28]

Justin smith sf
and stafford got robbed .. F eli ! Lol

[cdub6238]

Its also funny to see someof the "expert" opinions on ESPN. They have a blog up covering each NFL Division, heres a sample:

AFC North:

made it on rep- Ray Lewis, Joe Thomas, Pouncey
snubbed- Dalton, Atkins, Haden

AFC West:

madeit on rep- Seymour, Gates, Dumervil, Rivers
snubbed- McGahee, Ryan Matthews, D Bowe, Tyvon Branch

AFC South:

made it on rep- Freeney
snubbed- Barwin, Cushing, Smith, Watt, Bironas

AFC East:

made it on rep- Jake Long, D Brick Ferguson
snubbed- Brandon Fields (makes no sense, because he clearly states Lechler is the best period), David Harris

NFC North:

made it on rep- Urlacher, Briggs, Raji
snubbed- Stafford

NFC West:

made it on rep- none
snubbed- Lynch, Aldon Smith, Chris Long, Calais Campbell

NFC South:

made it on rep- Bushrod
snubbed- Newton, Sproles

NFC East:

made it on rep- Babin, Ratliff
snubbed- Romo, Fletcher (or Kerrigan..says oneof the 2 shouldve made it), Evan Mathis, Cruz

[beaver1080]

Last I knew, the new stadium in Dallas had a roof on it.

too bad eli only played one game in that dome.......

cruz should have been on the roster as well. good to see eli and jpp get some respect :)!

[matt roberson]

He'll make it because rodgers or brees (prob rodgers) will be busy.

Yes I am biased.

Yes I believe Cam should have ABSOLUTELY made it as a RC

ETA: upon further review he is listed as an 'alternate'...or at least that's what the (un)reliable twitter-verse is saying..
which means he'll pronb be in Hawaii before it's said and done

[jbellis74]

Last I knew, the new stadium in Dallas had a roof on it.


So Eli played in 2 domes all year long.....New Orleans and Dallas (they have a retractable dome)

Put Stafford in Met Life stadium for 9 games and he most likely wont have the same stats as he did this year

8 NYG Home games
1 NYJ Home game

[freethrowtommy]

So Eli played in 2 domes all year long.....New Orleans and Dallas (they have a retractable dome)

Put Stafford in Met Life stadium for 9 games and he most likely wont have the same stats as he did this year

8 NYG Home games
1 NYJ Home game

I don't think they do anymore. That Mitsubishi mega-screen covers up most of the field...

[bdubs3316]

So Eli played in 2 domes all year long.....New Orleans and Dallas (they have a retractable dome)

Put Stafford in Met Life stadium for 9 games and he most likely wont have the same stats as he did this year

8 NYG Home games
1 NYJ Home game

You can use your ifs and buts all you want...Stafford had a better season than Eli. I go to all the home Giant games, as I'm a season ticket holder....he didnt play well.

Is feel confident that Stafford would do fine in MetLife....he has the arm strength to handle it. Let's see how he does in GB....conditions are usually worse there.

Also, if the Giants win this weekend.....we may see Stafford vs Eli at MetLife.

[jbellis74]

You can use your ifs and buts all you want...Stafford had a better season than Eli. I go to all the home Giant games, as I'm a season ticket holder....he didnt play well.

Is feel confident that Stafford would do fine in MetLife....he has the arm strength to handle it. Let's see how he does in GB....conditions are usually worse there.

Also, if the Giants win this weekend.....we may see Stafford vs Eli at MetLife.

To say Stafford is better is pure opinion just like saying Eli is better...

Back to the OP...They both really deserve to make it and if the Lions or Giants dont make the SB and the Packers or Saints do then we will see Stafford in the PB

I dont see the Packers making the big game this year.......I predict San Fran and Baltimore a rematch of an earlier game where San Fran won easily

[guru]

Andy Dalton easily should have made it over Phillip Rivers

[SethMurphy]

Where the #@#@#@#@ is Victor Cruz?

Cruz - 76 catches, 1,358 yards (3rd in the league), 8 td, 54 1st down catches, 71.1 1st down %
Jennings - 67 catches, 949 yards, 9 td, 43 1st down, 64.2 1st down %

[jbellis74]

Where the #@#@#@#@ is Victor Cruz?

Cruz got screwed but JPP made it

[grandmasterPRA]

So Eli played in 2 domes all year long.....New Orleans and Dallas (they have a retractable dome)

Put Stafford in Met Life stadium for 9 games and he most likely wont have the same stats as he did this year

8 NYG Home games
1 NYJ Home game

Stafford Played four games outdoors this season:

At TB: 24/33 305yds 3TD 1INT
At DEN: 21/30 267yds 3TD 0INT
At CHI: 33/63 329 1TD 4INT
At OAK: 29/52 391Yds 4TD 0INT

I think Stafford can play just fine outdoors so I don't understand the argument. He doesn't make the schedules, he just plays the games. Yea at Chicago was pretty bad but he was playing with that glove because of the broken finger, and he clearly wasn't the same those couple games. Plus right now the Lions are 10-5 and the Giants are 8-7. What did Stafford in was the horrible decision by the NFL to have the Pro Bowl Voting end early which makes no sense at all because it didn't count the last two games (or one, I don't remember). The pro bowl is a joke. Lions have waited 40 years for a Pro Bowl QB which is the saddest thing out of all of this. Too bad Stafford had to play in a conference with Brees and Rodgers or we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[freethrowtommy]

You can use your ifs and buts all you want...Stafford had a better season than Eli. I go to all the home Giant games, as I'm a season ticket holder....he didnt play well.

Is feel confident that Stafford would do fine in MetLife....he has the arm strength to handle it. Let's see how he does in GB....conditions are usually worse there.

Also, if the Giants win this weekend.....we may see Stafford vs Eli at MetLife.

Can I argue that Romo deserves it over both of them?

Romo was missing his number 1 WR for a good portion of the season (Miles Austin) and still put up some pretty good numbers. 4th in QB rating (behind the big 3, Brady, Rodgers, Brees), better competition percentage than Manning and Stafford, and more yards/completion. Romo threw almost 120 passes less than Stafford and 70 less than Manning so his yards and TDs are less, but his efficiency is obviously better.

Stafford is 4th on the list and even without Eli, should have been 1st alternate.

[freethrowtommy]

Where the #@#@#@#@ is Victor Cruz?

Cruz - 76 catches, 1,358 yards (3rd in the league), 8 td, 54 1st down catches, 71.1 1st down %
Jennings - 67 catches, 949 yards, 9 td, 43 1st down, 64.2 1st down %

I agree that Cruz got hosed...

I would argue the same for Jordy Nelson. He is second in YPC (behind Knox) and second in TDs (behind Johnson).

I think the NFC should have been Johnson, Cruz, Smith, and Nelson. Argument could be made to keep Fitz on the team, because his year hasn't been bad. The problem is, like QBs, there are too many good players and not enough spots.

[grandmasterPRA]

Can I argue that Romo deserves it over both of them?

Romo was missing his number 1 WR for a good portion of the season (Miles Austin) and still put up some pretty good numbers. 4th in QB rating (behind the big 3, Brady, Rodgers, Brees), better competition percentage than Manning and Stafford, and more yards/completion. Romo threw almost 120 passes less than Stafford and 70 less than Manning so his yards and TDs are less, but his efficiency is obviously better.

Stafford is 4th on the list and even without Eli, should have been 1st alternate.

Romo did have a great season BUT:

When they faced each other head to head, Stafford beat him and Romo choked away the game. And Austin is NOT his best receiver, that would be Dez Bryant. Plus Stafford has clinched a spot in the playoffs and Romo is still fighting for a spot and possibly won't even make it. Romo is actually a really good argument though and should be in the conversation.

[Grza]

Happy for Earl Thomas getting the starting spot!

Best of the best! ET making plays for 2 full seasons now!

[freethrowtommy]

Romo did have a great season BUT:

When they faced each other head to head, Stafford beat him and Romo choked away the game. And Austin is NOT his best receiver, that would be Dez Bryant. Plus Stafford has clinched a spot in the playoffs and Romo is still fighting for a spot and possibly won't even make it. Romo is actually a really good argument though and should be in the conversation.

That is true. I kind of forgot about that game. Surprisingly, Romo still kind of outplayed Stafford, stats wise, outside of the interceptions in that game. It just was the interceptions he did throw WERE horrible and two were returned for TDs... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20111002006.

I would still say that Miles is Dallas' best receiver right now. Bryant is definitely more talented and if he can keep his nose clean, will be a great player and their number 1 soon, but he is currently still number 2 on that team... for right now. I think a lot of people forgot how good Miles was since he was hurt for a lot of the year (even when he was playing, he was hampered). Dallas will be dangerous next year if Miles, Bryant and Robinson all can stay healthy with Witten. That is a scary good corp of pass catchers.

[saintsfan9]

No Matt Stafford?? NO SUH? NO AVRIL? NO COREY WILLIAMS (ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED PLAYERS IN THE NFL).

REALLY??

Stafford would have been the #2 or 3 in the AFC.

You cant put him in over Brees/Rodgers and its really close between him and Eli as much as I hate Eli and actually like stafford.

Suh didnt get in because he is a child and acts like one.

I dont pay attention to detroit much otherwise so I cant comment on the other 2.

[Giantsphan]

Larry Fitzgerald over Victor Cruz??!!!! Not a good choice! Victor Cruz having a much better season. Wish this was done by stats and not by popularity!

[saintsfan9]

the NFC team would poop all over the AFC 9/10 times in a real game.

[DetectiveChrome]

the NFC team would poop all over the AFC 9/10 times in a real game.

I'd expect this coming from an NFC/Saints guy

[DetectiveChrome]

Aldon Smith!!!!!!!

14 sacks as a rookie....the guy dominates!!!!

[DetectiveChrome]

Tebow? lol

[freethrowtommy]

I'd expect this coming from an NFC/Saints guy

I would expect NFC over AFC from anyone who watched football at all this year...

I was listening to, I think it was Bill Simmons podcast, and the line in Vegas for NFC over AFC in the Super Bowl was 3 or 4 points. And that is without even knowing who is representing.

[saintsfan9]

I'd expect this coming from an NFC/Saints guy

have you watched any football this year? not just the teams being better in the NFC, but the skill positions on offense have an advantage in every single starter, the only one that is a push maybe a slight win for the AFC is gronk vs graham.

I would actually take all 4 NFC WRs over Mike Wallace as well as some that didnt even make it.

on a side note, awesome how the starting guards for each team are Pats vs Saints.

[pga-ink]

I def think Cam Newton or Matthew Stafford should have made it over Eli.

Cant believe they didnt choose London Fletcher or Aldon Smith for the NFC roster...snub!

[robertr1105]

London Fletcher or NaVorro Bowman over Clay Matthews.

[jbellis74]

Stafford Played four games outdoors this season:

At TB: 24/33 305yds 3TD 1INT
At DEN: 21/30 267yds 3TD 0INT
At CHI: 33/63 329 1TD 4INT
At OAK: 29/52 391Yds 4TD 0INT

I think Stafford can play just fine outdoors so I don't understand the argument. He doesn't make the schedules, he just plays the games. Yea at Chicago was pretty bad but he was playing with that glove because of the broken finger, and he clearly wasn't the same those couple games. Plus right now the Lions are 10-5 and the Giants are 8-7. What did Stafford in was the horrible decision by the NFL to have the Pro Bowl Voting end early which makes no sense at all because it didn't count the last two games (or one, I don't remember). The pro bowl is a joke. Lions have waited 40 years for a Pro Bowl QB which is the saddest thing out of all of this. Too bad Stafford had to play in a conference with Brees and Rodgers or we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

@Tampa and @Oakland dont count.......There are no weather factors in either of those cities..

As far as records go.......let me know when Detroit plays Philly twice, Dallas twice, Washington twice, @San Fran, Green Bay, Buffalo, @New England, Miami, the Jets and New Orleans

The Giants had one of if not the hardest schedule in the entire league...

Again, not saying Stafford is not deserving

[bdubs3316]

@Tampa and @Oakland dont count.......There are no weather factors in either of those cities..

As far as records go.......let me know when Detroit plays Philly twice, Dallas twice, Washington twice, San Fran, Green Bay, Buffalo, New England, Miami, the Jets and New Orleans

The Giants had one of if not the hardest schedule in the entire league...

Again, not saying Stafford is not deserving

Lol....outside games don't count. Now I've heard it all. Believe me...its not like Eli has been playing in monsoons and massive weather each game. To say he has is a crock of shish. I was at his home games ...the weather was cold in a few....but it wasn't unbearable. Stop making HOMER excuses.

Sorry Stafford didn't make the schedule to play those teams back to back. Maybe he'll rake over schedule making next year. :)! Washington sucked this year and they SWEPT the Giants. Miami is ok (depending on the week)....Jets are overrated....Buffalo Tanked the second half of the season...and Philly under-performed until late in the year.

[jbellis74]

Lol....outside games don't count. Now I've heard it all. Believe me...its not like Eli has been playing in monsoons and massive weather each game. To say he has is a crock of shish. I was at his home games ...the weather was cold in a few....but it wasn't unbearable. Stop making HOMER excuses.

Sorry Stafford didn't make the schedule to play those teams back to back. Maybe he'll rake over schedule making next year. :)! Washington sucked this year and they SWEPT the Giants. Miami is ok (depending on the week)....Jets are overrated....Buffalo Tanked the second half of the season...and Philly under-performed until late in the year.

Did not say outside games dont count. I specifically said those 2 games dont count. The weather is almost always perfect in those two cities

Explain to me how Washington sucked when they had the #10 ranked defense in the entire league?? They do not suck so take off the rosey Stafford glasses. The bottom line is the voters think Eli is better and deserved it more. Now if your upset about not having a Lion QB in the pro bowl in forever thats another issue..

I believe you were defending Suh and his nonsense

[jbellis74]

Victor Cruz is the biggest snub IMO

76 catches 1358 yards 8 TD's and another game to go. He can pass 1500 yards receiving with the way Dallas plays defense in the secondary.

Only 20+ players have ever had 1500+ yards receiving in a season

[nuccionino]

Did not say outside games dont count. I specifically said those 2 games dont count. The weather is almost always perfect in those two cities

Explain to me how Washington sucked when they had the #10 ranked defense in the entire league?? They do not suck so take off the rosey Stafford glasses. The bottom line is the voters think Eli is better and deserved it more. Now if your upset about not having a Lion QB in the pro bowl in forever thats another issue..

I believe you were defending Suh and his nonsense

Take off the Eli glasses. You aren't admitting that Stafford had a better season because of the weather? These aren't pee wee kids they are two of the 10 best QB's in the world.. they can handle it. And yea, Lions schedule was very easy, playing GB twice, Chicago and their D twice, SF, SD when they were arguably the best team in football, Denver who supposebly has a good D, yet lets up 45 to Lions. Lions played Dallas, in Dallas. Are you going to say Stafford didn't deserve it because he had Calvin now? The stats show that Stafford was much better then Eli. Don't try to throw in schedule, and weather, and the sun coming into the eyes during a certain time of day, and the planes flying so Eli can't concentrate, as your reasoning that Eli did better then Matt.

[nuccionino]

Victor Cruz is the biggest snub IMO

76 catches 1358 yards 8 TD's and another game to go. He can pass 1500 yards receiving with the way Dallas plays defense in the secondary.

Yes, he is, and it isn't even close. Guy has helped NY in so any ways. He deserves it over anyone.

[jbellis74]

Take off the Eli glasses. You aren't admitting that Stafford had a better season because of the weather? These aren't pee wee kids they are two of the 10 best QB's in the world.. they can handle it. And yea, Lions schedule was very easy, playing GB twice, Chicago and their D twice, SF, SD when they were arguably the best team in football, Denver who supposebly has a good D, yet lets up 45 to Lions. Lions played Dallas, in Dallas. Are you going to say Stafford didn't deserve it because he had Calvin now? The stats show that Stafford was much better then Eli. Don't try to throw in schedule, and weather, and the sun coming into the eyes during a certain time of day, and the planes flying so Eli can't concentrate, as your reasoning that Eli did better then Matt.



Never said Stafford did not deserve to make the pro bowl....Said on more than one occasion that he did deserve it and there can only be so many QB's chosen. Also said he may very well make the Pro Bowl because if New Orleans or Green Bay make the SB neither QB will play in the pro bowl

[nuccionino]

Never said Stafford did not deserve to make the pro bowl....Said on more than one occasion that he did deserve it and there can only be so many QB's chosen. Also said he may very well make the Pro Bowl because if New Orleans or Green Bay make the SB neither QB will play in the pro bowl

That is true, I just don't see why Eli made it. I think Cam and Stafford over Eli. It is close though. Cruz still wins my vote for biggest snub.

[jbellis74]

BTW the following WR's had 1500+ yards in a single season


Jerry Rice (4 times) Missed a 5th time by 1 yard in 1994
Andre Johnson (2 times)
Charley Hennigan (2 times)
David Boston
Herman Moore
Isaac Bruce
Jimmy Smith
Lance Alworth
Marvin Harrison (2 times)
Michael Irvin (2 times)
Randy Moss
Reggie Wayne
Rob Moore
Rod Smith
Roy Green
Steve Smith
Torry Holt (2 times)

Be nice to add Cruz to that list.....Most of these guys are in or going to be in the HOF. Thought TO would be on that list. Guess not lol

[RichSlyFox14]

biggest snub for me is london fletcher. 163 tackles!! this guy gets like 15 tackles a game now its insane. fan vote does it though...

here's what i think:

NFC
QB - Stafford for Manning
RB - Cam Newton for Forte (injured) lol
WR - Victor Cruz for Greg Jennings (only made it because his team is 14-1...)

LB - London Fletcher & Chad Greenway for Clay Matthews & Urlacher?
CB - Brandon Browner for ?
SS - A lot of people for Adrian Wilson


AFC
QB - Peyton Manning for Phillip Rivers (hey, it's true)
TE - Aaron Hernadez for Antonio Gates (Stats show 2 Pats are the best)
DT - Ahtyba Rubin for Richard Seymour (how did he even....wow)
LB - Pat Angerer & D'Qwell Jackson for Derrick Johnson? & Ray Lewis
CB - Kyle Arrington & Lardarius Webb for Jonathan Joseph & Champ Bailey


but it is what it is, especially with the fan vote. there will be a lot of replacements though like last year, so whatever.

[jbellis74]

Its such a crappy all star game......They really need to spice it up somehow...

[bdubs3316]

Did not say outside games dont count. I specifically said those 2 games dont count. The weather is almost always perfect in those two cities

Explain to me how Washington sucked when they had the #10 ranked defense in the entire league?? They do not suck so take off the rosey Stafford glasses. The bottom line is the voters think Eli is better and deserved it more. Now if your upset about not having a Lion QB in the pro bowl in forever thats another issue..

I believe you were defending Suh and his nonsense

Holy Shish!!!!! Now u bringing Suh into this? Yes, I disagreed with the terms people were using....not that what he did was right. Thanks for bringing up the irrelevant. :)!

Eli has all of NY voting for him, while Stafford has a smaller market voting for him....makes it fairly easy based on numbers that way.

Sorry you are one of the few that feel Eli had a better season than Stafford. Maybe you need to take you Eli beer goggles off!!!!

Any other BS you care to bring up to throw people off of your nonsense reasons for Eli over Stafford?

[jbellis74]

I guess I wasnt clear enough for you.....

1) Never said Eli deserved to make it over Stafford - Said thats what the voters decided. The fan vote counts for only 1/3
2) Said Stafford did deserve it
3) Brought up the schedules based on your comment that the Lions are 10-5 and the Giants are 8-7
4) Again mentioned Stafford deserves to make it
5) Explained a third time that its unfortunate that there can be only 3 QB's
6) Also explained that Stafford may very well make the pro bowl after all

I am sure there is more but this will do for now

[jbellis74]

Heres one.......
If there could be 4 QB's Stafford and Eli would have both made it

Another

Again, not saying Stafford is not deserving

One more
Back to the OP...They both really deserve to make it and if the Lions or Giants dont make the SB and the Packers or Saints do then we will see Stafford in the PB

Im bored at work if you cannot tell lol

[bdubs3316]

I guess I wasnt clear enough for you.....

1) Never said Eli deserved to make it over Stafford - Said thats what the voters decided. The fan vote counts for only 1/3
2) Said Stafford did deserve it
3) Brought up the schedules based on your comment that the Lions are 10-5 and the Giants are 8-7
4) Again mentioned Stafford deserves to make it
5) Explained a third time that its unfortunate that there can be only 3 QB's
6) Also explained that Stafford may very well make the pro bowl after all

I am sure there is more but this will do for now

Good for you. What I'm saying is....

Eli didn't have a top 3 NFC QB season

[jbellis74]

Ok, so we agree to disagree then :)

[freethrowtommy]

Good for you. What I'm saying is....

Eli didn't have a top 3 NFC QB season

Romo did... you want to argue with me about that?

[robertr1105]

Oh, and I haven't seen him play much, but what from I have seen William Moore, the safety on Atlanta, should have gotten on. Also, Isaac Sopoaga over Jay Ratliff. I personally think that these two are very underrated.

[bdubs3316]

Romo did... you want to argue with me about that?

That can be argued both ways....Stafford vs Romo....but still think Stafford wins that debate

[freethrowtommy]

That can be argued both ways....Stafford vs Romo....but still think Stafford wins that debate

Just wanted to see how far your homerism would take you... you pass :)!

[bdubs3316]

Just wanted to see how far your homerism would take you... you pass :)!

I'm a realistic homer :D

[joe31]

They left Stafford off because they knew lions were going to the super bowl, lol. But I think well end up seeing stafford in the pro bowl because odds are that either brees or Rodgers get to the super bowl. Also, if packers go, Cruz would be able to take Jennings spot. It seems like every year, there's always some players that choose not to go anyway, so there's still hope for all the "snubs".