LCS frustrations...

[davidhibler]

ok, so I have not been into a card shop since I was a kid. I for back into the hobby earlier this tear and have only bought online.

I would LOVE to support a card shop locally, and I understand that prices may have to be slightly higher...but I can't justify spending that much on boxes. Im talking like $100 for topps finest $100 for bowman platinum and $85 for topps Chrome!

do you guys have this issue or am I just in a bad area? :confused:

[nuccionino]

That's pretty bad. My LCS marks up boxes about 10-15%, but he always gives me discounts. I can walk in with about 200 base cards and he'll knock off 3 or 4 bucks just with that.

[sdsportsfan1214]

I feel the same way man, LCS prices are ridiculous. Everyone always talks about helping out the local shop but if I can get the box any cheaper online thats where my business is going to go

[KingTaco77]

I have two LCSs, and both tend to be pretty well-priced...only about 5-10 bucks more, if not even. It helps that I'm in a fairly populated area, though.

[davidhibler]

yeah, for me wouldn't mind an extra few bucks per box...that way I can get instant gratification and not have to wait 4 days to get my box. you would think it would be competitive in a large metro area such as DFW

[jr24ai3]

ok, so I have not been into a card shop since I was a kid. I for back into the hobby earlier this tear and have only bought online.

I would LOVE to support a card shop locally, and I understand that prices may have to be slightly higher...but I can't justify spending that much on boxes. Im talking like $100 for topps finest $100 for bowman platinum and $85 for topps Chrome!

do you guys have this issue or am I just in a bad area? :confused:

Do you know if you local shop does much online? A lot of shops run by older guys who are not internet savvy tend to keep their prices higher since they do not see the fluctuation of prices online.

However, you need to understand where your shop is coming from. Topps Finest direct cost was $75/box. He is only making $25 on a $100 sale. It isn't like he is tripling his money on you. He is making around $28/box on Bowman platinum and around $32/box on Topps Chrome. The Chrome may be a little high based on cost, but it's not outrageous. There comes a point where you can't start matching every price out there on the internet and stay in business. Blowout is in the business of moving wax in large volumes. This allows them to mark items up $10-$15 over cost, and also allows them to dump slow selling products at or below cost.

If you don't like his prices and markups, you have every right to not shop at his place. But you should at least understand where his prices are coming from and that he is not making a killing on you.

[nuccionino]

Do you know if you local shop does much online? A lot of shops run by older guys who are not internet savvy tend to keep their prices higher since they do not see the fluctuation of prices online.

However, you need to understand where your shop is coming from. Topps Finest direct cost was $75/box. He is only making $25 on a $100 sale. It isn't like he is tripling his money on you. He is making around $28/box on Bowman platinum and around $32/box on Topps Chrome. The Chrome may be a little high based on cost, but it's not outrageous. There comes a point where you can't start matching every price out there on the internet and stay in business. Blowout is in the business of moving wax in large volumes. This allows them to mark items up $10-$15 over cost, and also allows them to dump slow selling products at or below cost.

If you don't like his prices and markups, you have every right to not shop at his place. But you should at least understand where his prices are coming from and that he is not making a killing on you.

To add, see how he is with older products and prices. My favorite LCS, I rarely shopped at because he NEVER dropped prices. Stuff have been there for 5+ years. However, my new LCS by my place, sold me some older stuff below the price online. Just so he could move it.

[Chaddie84]

That's pretty bad. My LCS marks up boxes about 10-15%, but he always gives me discounts. I can walk in with about 200 base cards and he'll knock off 3 or 4 bucks just with that.

Ditto. The only time where the prices get out of hand is when wholesale prices tank after release. The owner would rather bust his own product than sell at a loss.

[jr24ai3]

Ditto. The only time where the prices get out of hand is when wholesale prices tank after release. The owner would rather bust his own product than sell at a loss.

This is another problem shops have. When products tank, customers expect them to drop their prices. Any reasonable shop should discount a box to around $5-$10 over cost to move it. But when products get hot, customers complain that the LCS is taking advantage of them. An example would be Gypsy Queen from 2011. Boxes were $80 direct and dealers are easily getting $180 to $200/box. They have to make money on the few hot products to make up for all of the DUDS that Topps/Panini releases.

[davidhibler]

Do you know if you local shop does much online? A lot of shops run by older guys who are not internet savvy tend to keep their prices higher since they do not see the fluctuation of prices online.

However, you need to understand where your shop is coming from. Topps Finest direct cost was $75/box. He is only making $25 on a $100 sale. It isn't like he is tripling his money on you. He is making around $28/box on Bowman platinum and around $32/box on Topps Chrome. The Chrome may be a little high based on cost, but it's not outrageous. There comes a point where you can't start matching every price out there on the internet and stay in business. Blowout is in the business of moving wax in large volumes. This allows them to mark items up $10-$15 over cost, and also allows them to dump slow selling products at or below cost.

If you don't like his prices and markups, you have every right to not shop at his place. But you should at least understand where his prices are coming from and that he is not making a killing on you.


No, I get that (as I said n my post), but Im just venting because I can't go in there and do an get the box immediately unless Im spending $20-$30 more plus tax.

it is not just this one shop. there are two within a reasonable drive...Ive never actually gone in. I called both guys and talked to them. a third shop about 45 minutes away explained his prices which were pretty much what you said. I get it.
nowhere in my post did I demand that they lower prices or bash them in any way...ease up. This is more about me being cheap and bargain hunting.

I was just trying to find out if this was the norm or if it was the area I am in.:)!

[jr24ai3]

No, I get that (as I said n my post), but Im just venting because I can't go in there and do an get the box immediately unless Im spending $20-$30 more plus tax.

it is not just this one shop. there are two within a reasonable drive...Ive never actually gone in. I called both guys and talked to them. a third shop about 45 minutes away explained his prices which were pretty much what you said. I get it.
nowhere in my post did I demand that they lower prices or bash them in any way...ease up. This is more about me being cheap and bargain hunting.

I was just trying to find out if this was the norm or if it was the area I am in.:)!

Wasn't trying to attack you. Just wanted to explain how little shops are really making on box sales. Shops are in a tough spot. They want your business, but they can't afford to make only $10 on a $90 sale. If they do $500,000 in wax sales, they only make $55,000. Then take away rent/utilities, etc, and they are $40k. Don't forget the IRS's cut, and they are down to $30k.

[mikecancelliere]

You wanna hear LCS frustrations? Submitting a $500 card through their BGS submission and they say it's a 10 day service and a month later you still don't have your card and they're making up #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ excuses... That's LCS frustration

[Gibberish]

Having to buy on the secondary market is hard for some shops
Then theres the people who's shop is mainly for acquiring cards to resell online

[GoJays]

My LCS usually has prices on par with blowout hockey-wise. Problem is he rarely if ever checks baseball/football/basketball prices, which can be a blessing and a curse. He had 2011 Bowman Regular for $110 until October, but he also never marked up Totally Certified basketball when it got hot. So when online dealers had it marked up at $150 he still had it at $90.

But my LCS usually sells at SRP, or barely marked up. Sucks you guys have all of those problems with you local shops. It is always nice to support your LCS and keep them in the market, but sometimes it does get very difficult to.

[KingTaco77]

You wanna hear LCS frustrations? Submitting a $500 card through their BGS submission and they say it's a 10 day service and a month later you still don't have your card and they're making up #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ excuses... That's LCS frustration

Man, sorry to hear that. I was going to take some cards in to mine but might rethink that now that I hear this. Was it the LCS's fault, if you don't mind me asking? Sorry for semi-hijacking the thread, but I figured it was still under the umbrella of LCS unhappiness.

[jr24ai3]

You wanna hear LCS frustrations? Submitting a $500 card through their BGS submission and they say it's a 10 day service and a month later you still don't have your card and they're making up #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ excuses... That's LCS frustration

What shop in IL do you go to? A 10 day service should be back within a month from when it was mailed out even with holidays. Figure 10 business days for grading, 3 business days each way for shipping, plus weekends...that's 25-27 days max. What excuses are they giving you? With becketts updated grading site, they should be able to show you that your card was received by beckett and the date it should be graded.

[fert360]

My lcs owner is selling 2010 Topps Chome Baseball For 82$ wile on BO its 45

[georgewashinton]

I have seen some ridiculous prices at the LCS closest to where I live. Obviously I don't frequent the place very often because of the prices, but here are some from when I last went there last December.

2010 Bowman Platinum - $115
2010 Topps Chrome - $65
2010 Bowman Chrome - $75
2010 Bowman Draft - $125 (and no... that is not a joke)
2011 Topps Heritage - $105
2011 Bowman - $90 (hobby) $185 (jumbo)
2011 Bowman Platinum - $110
2011 Bowman Chrome - $85
2011 Bowman Draft - $85

Without the kiddies and there Yugeo or Magic cards this guy wouldn't be able to stay in business. So thank God for blowout and blowout it's time for a west coast distribution center. Please.

[mikecancelliere]

Man, sorry to hear that. I was going to take some cards in to mine but might rethink that now that I hear this. Was it the LCS's fault, if you don't mind me asking? Sorry for semi-hijacking the thread, but I figured it was still under the umbrella of LCS unhappiness.
Yea just send yourself. It was a bubba orange ref auto and I missed the bump because of them. It was their fault. I submitted it about a month ago and even with giving 5 days shipping on both ends and 10 days service it would have been here
What shop in IL do you go to? A 10 day service should be back within a month from when it was mailed out even with holidays. Figure 10 business days for grading, 3 business days each way for shipping, plus weekends...that's 25-27 days max. What excuses are they giving you? With becketts updated grading site, they should be able to show you that your card was received by beckett and the date it should be graded.

baseball card king in Joilet. They keep saying since their a Beckett partner Beckett can take however long they want

[danimal875]

I found the best way to support the LCS is ordering bulk through them, letting them know you want a certain quantity and how much you are willing to pay for it. They in turn will call their distributor and see if they can make any money on it. Its a no lose proposition for them because they know the inventory is going right out the door. If they only make 5 or 10 % its fine because of the larger order. Now this doesn't solve your instant gratification problem, c'mon! You have to be fair, that guy is sitting in his store with tens of thousands of dollars of inventory he has already paid for, pays rent on the building, pays to keep the lights on and you can just waltz in their and open anything you like, it is worth the premium!

[starmente]

My LCS is very fair with giving me discounts if I say ,buy 3 or more boxes at once.
Also ,my LCS doesn't open wax much and I give him autos lots at way below Ebay prices and when I do this I have the option of a trade for wax at a discount or the cash.
Helping him out goes a long way to getting my Bowman chrome fix at a good price!

[mainerunr]

yeah, my LCS are all high...and there are three of them within 15 miles of my house.

[XL5]

One by me had 2011 A&G for $120/box before tax, $132 or so after tax. I quit going there.

The other one is more reasonable but still 20-25% over BO pricing. I try to buy what I can there though because it's a fun shop.

[Jackg1980]

my LCS is not bad... Contenders is 139$. I see it this way... It is instant gratification plus he gives me card protectors when I bust the box there. Also I hang out for awhile and SOCIALIZE. The ebay generation may think, tweeting and getting on the forums in socializing but it is not. Why do people go to bars and drink. They are paying 2x-3x as much for drinks as they can just down the street at the corner store. They do it to socialize and get out the house. I understand if its like 30$ more there then online. But 5-15$ is more then fair to help support your LCS.

[johnorpheus]

My LCS owner knows nothing about baseball. I can deduce this from the following prices:

$70 a box of '11 bowman draft and '10 draft
$72 a box for '11 bowman chrome
$72 a box for '10 topps chrome, '10 bowman chrome, '11 heritage minor league, '08 bowman chrome and '09 bowman regular (all going for about half that online)
$3 a pack (I got remaining 12 packs for $30!) for '09 Draft (currently going for around $100 a box)

So basically, he just says, "screw it" and throws the same price on everything baseball, not taking the time to research what is good and what is crap.

[HadWayTooMuch]

Every post on here is pretty much spot on, both sides of the discussion.

It's a no win situation as a shop owner if you have to battle the internet. Back in the old old days (1991-1994) when I had a shop, I was not direct. My wholesaler sold to me at just about the same price he sold to retail customers at the mall shows (I probably paid $1-$2 less).

My solution was to just not sell boxes unless a customer specficially asked about one, and then I made a whopping $2-$5 on the box. But this was before extremely expensive boxes, autos, etc.

What other business works on a 10% or less markup and stays in business? Keep in mind, those expecting a local shop to have the same prices as a blowout or similar need to learn a bit about business. I understand that it makes no sense from a consumer standpoint to pay $80 for something when you can get it elswhere for $50. And I agree with you. But don't hold it against the store. Realize the difference and buy your wax from BO and go to the store to see what other items they may offer that interest you.

Retail is dying, people. For the younger crowd, you don't realize it because you never experienced retail in full swing. Who knows if retail will even exist in 5 or 10 years the way the internet is going.

But just remember, the LCS is pretty much screwed with the market today. I bet many of them buy from BO the same way you do, but they need to resell.

[jr24ai3]

My LCS owner knows nothing about baseball. I can deduce this from the following prices:

$70 a box of '11 bowman draft and '10 draft
$72 a box for '11 bowman chrome
$72 a box for '10 topps chrome, '10 bowman chrome, '11 heritage minor league, '08 bowman chrome and '09 bowman regular (all going for about half that online)
$3 a pack (I got remaining 12 packs for $30!) for '09 Draft (currently going for around $100 a box)

So basically, he just says, "screw it" and throws the same price on everything baseball, not taking the time to research what is good and what is crap.


Actually he just keeps his products at a standard markup. All of the products you listed cost him between $49-$52 a box direct. So he marks them up $20/box. He can't just give his product away below cost because they drop in price online.

[tajikey]

Every post on here is pretty much spot on, both sides of the discussion.

It's a no win situation as a shop owner if you have to battle the internet. Back in the old old days (1991-1994) when I had a shop, I was not direct. My wholesaler sold to me at just about the same price he sold to retail customers at the mall shows (I probably paid $1-$2 less).

My solution was to just not sell boxes unless a customer specficially asked about one, and then I made a whopping $2-$5 on the box. But this was before extremely expensive boxes, autos, etc.

What other business works on a 10% or less markup and stays in business? Keep in mind, those expecting a local shop to have the same prices as a blowout or similar need to learn a bit about business. I understand that it makes no sense from a consumer standpoint to pay $80 for something when you can get it elswhere for $50. And I agree with you. But don't hold it against the store. Realize the difference and buy your wax from BO and go to the store to see what other items they may offer that interest you.

Retail is dying, people. For the younger crowd, you don't realize it because you never experienced retail in full swing. Who knows if retail will even exist in 5 or 10 years the way the internet is going.

But just remember, the LCS is pretty much screwed with the market today. I bet many of them buy from BO the same way you do, but they need to resell.

Grocery stores, but they deal in quantity over quality, so it makes sense.

Since we're bashing LCSs, there are two in my town, one I frequent, and one I've stepped foot in once. My wife decided she wanted to get me a box of cards for V-Day, which I applaud, but she went to the LCS I've stepped foot in once. She knew the name and location of the other shop I go to (The Press Boxx), but for some reason, didn't go to it. When she handed me the present (2011 A&G. Not my first choice, but again, she made the effort), she told me where she went, and said she knows now what I REALLY spend on a box of cards. Turns out, the guy took complete advantage of her, selling her the box for $140. $140?!?!?! Yep! I didn't have the heart to tell her I could get that same box for $70 online.

The other shop would have sold it to me/her for no more than $90.

[HadWayTooMuch]

Grocery stores, but they deal in quantity over quality, so it makes sense.

Since we're bashing LCSs, there are two in my town, one I frequent, and one I've stepped foot in once. My wife decided she wanted to get me a box of cards for V-Day, which I applaud, but she went to the LCS I've stepped foot in once. She knew the name and location of the other shop I go to (The Press Boxx), but for some reason, didn't go to it. When she handed me the present (2011 A&G. Not my first choice, but again, she made the effort), she told me where she went, and said she knows now what I REALLY spend on a box of cards. Turns out, the guy took complete advantage of her, selling her the box for $140. $140?!?!?! Yep! I didn't have the heart to tell her I could get that same box for $70 online.

The other shop would have sold it to me/her for no more than $90.

We could go on, auto dealerships, gas stations, etc, but I was thinking more of retail businesses.

That's a sin that some places mark up like that. There is no excuse for $140 for A&G, no matter what. Did it even hit $90 retail at any point in time?

[johnorpheus]

Actually he just keeps his products at a standard markup. All of the products you listed cost him between $49-$52 a box direct. So he marks them up $20/box. He can't just give his product away below cost because they drop in price online.

2011 Hertiage Minor League cost $50 direct? That'd suck since it's never cost that price retail.

For the '10 topps and bowman chrome and the '09 bowman and '08 chrome, He'd rather just hang on to that crap for years than cut his loses and sell? I don't give a crap how much he paid direct over a year ago. I'm not buying that junk at that price and judging by how long it's been sitting there, neither is anyone else.

You must own a shop yourself and be doing the same thing, hoping some sucker comes in some day and pays double price for the crap you've been holding onto for years. Not gonna happen.

[HadWayTooMuch]

2011 Hertiage Minor League cost $50 direct? That'd suck since it's never cost that price retail.

For the '10 topps and bowman chrome and the '09 bowman and '08 chrome, He'd rather just hang on to that crap for years than cut his loses and sell? I don't give a crap how much he paid direct over a year ago. I'm not buying that junk at that price and judging by how long it's been sitting there, neither is anyone else.

You must own a shop yourself and be doing the same thing, hoping some sucker comes in some day and pays double price for the crap you've been holding onto for years. Not gonna happen.

Exactly how does he pay his bills and feed his family if he loses money on every product that goes down in internet value? (which is most of them)

[texgator]

Reality is LCSs are doomed. Between internet sellers and Topps putting hobby product in WalMart and Target the LCS are going to lose more and more business. It's sad...we all like the hobby shops, but it's a reality that the business model just doesn't work anymore.

[johnorpheus]

Exactly how does he pay his bills and feed his family if he loses money on every product that goes down in internet value? (which is most of them)

What are you talking about? How does hanging on to old crap for years because no one wants to pay ridiculous prices for it help him feed his family?

You're blowing my mind here. Those old products I've mentioned have been at low value everywhere for over a year now. Everyone knows they're crappy products and there are reasons for it. The market on these products has been firmly established. This isn't the stock market that ebbs and flows on a regular basis. This stuff isn't going up in value.

That kind of thinking (decided never to cut your loses no matter what) is why people fail at small business in general. I've seen another LCS owner go out of business doing the same thing.

[fert360]

My LCS Owner
2011 Topps Triple Threads Baseball 260
2011 Certified Football 150
Topps Inception 135
2011 Topps Chrome Baseball 120
7.00 a pack for 2011 Topps Chrome Football

[brendenw]

Same with my OLD one...I live near philly and he trys selling his Phillies cards for TRIPLE the price they get..he charges $105 for bowman plat. Terrible shop imo

[jr24ai3]

Same with my OLD one...I live near philly and he trys selling his Phillies cards for TRIPLE the price they get..he charges $105 for bowman plat. Terrible shop imo

You get more in the local markets than you do elsewhere in the country.

[brendenw]

You get more in the local markets than you do elsewhere in the country.

I haven't gone to any..any suggestions ?

[JonDailey1982]

Like you guys said, owning a shop is about providing instant gratification, about providing a place to hang out and talk in person about something we all love, and a place to trade cards in person. At least in my mind. This is what we promote at my shop.

[DaBaddestHic]

Like you guys said, owning a shop is about providing instant gratification, about providing a place to hang out and talk in person about something we all love, and a place to trade cards in person. At least in my mind. This is what we promote at my shop.

Hmm a LCS in Richmond, maybe sometime when I'm travelling to visit family in Hazard I'll make a small detour :).

[byronscott4ever]

You get more in the local markets than you do elsewhere in the country.


I think this quote was about "regional appeal" of teams from the area/state than markets such as flea markets and other outlets.

[clarkzac]

I don't have an LCS near me, but there are 3 that I have been to while traveling. One of them wasn't too bad in there prices, I paid $75 for a box of 2011 Heritage less than a month after it was released. Another one of them I just bought a couple of Topps Series 2 jumbo packs for $9 apiece- he had 2011 Lineage at $124.95 and this was when it was around $60 online. The last one I was at in January I picked up a box of 2011 Draft for $65-70 which isn't bad for a smaller shop. I do like the LCS experience when I'm able to get to one. I just like looking at everything that they have available and I really like looking at their vintage stuff even though I never pick any of it up

[jr24ai3]

I think this quote was about "regional appeal" of teams from the area/state than markets such as flea markets and other outlets.

Correct. Was not talking about flea markets.

[kyle1707]

Owning a card store is not easy... i'm 9 months in now...

But there are different types of stores that is for sure.

If a shop gets wax direct price should never be an issue..

My direct cost is 20% less of what blowout sells for and im always the same price as blowout or DA etc... if not lower at my shop.... there are products i go back and buy after dried up and then my prices are higher... But no more than 10-15 dollars... But majority of customers dont mind paying an extra 10 dollars than having to wait 3-5 days to get box

So if your card shop is high it is because they are paying the same price for wax as you are... ebay BO DA etc....

Also what you have to remember is i do 125,000 in sales a year...
But still when a card shop is charging double what a box is going on line is awful..
Because they are trying to make 50 dollars a box...
i'm trying to make 15-20 sometimes 10 if it sits a long time..

Blowout does what 5-10 million?

It's tough at times... But i love it

[davidhibler]

alright, so here is another question. do they make money on supplies? Honestly I have not bought supplies since I was a kid. is this a good way to support them? i mean super nice guys but the prices...

are these guys typically that much higher than online? maybe ill just swing by tomorrow...