Future of UD and what it means?

[mrlaker]

So as I think we all know, upperdeck is on the verge of shutting it's doors, everyone seems to think it's just a matter of when(correct me if you've heard differently).

Now my question pertains to their contracts with MJ and Lebron. When UD does finally go under, does this free up MJ and Lebron to sign cards for panini? Also, wouldn't panini be able to use upper decks previous designs and set names as well at that point? Similar to what happened with fleer and the later fleer sets produced by upper deck. If so, hopefully UD goes out sooner rather than later.

Maybe I'm just trying to find a ray of hope in basketball collecting. I was a huge collector and wax buster, but I have yet to find a panini product that excites me enough to purchase much. It's almost as if panini thinks that each set only needs one thing done reasonable well and the rest can be complete #@#@#@#@. For example the XRC's seem like a good idea and add value to past and present, but then the set design is bland as hell and filled with terrible autos. Panini doesn't get that this shouldn't be what drives the product, but rather it should be a bonus. Blackbox was decent, but no on card autos of course. Preferred finally had the first nice set I've seen from panini (Silohuettes) but was otherwise completely lacking in imagination and value, especailly at 200 dollars a pack..It's all just gimmicky junk.

I would argue the competition aspect as to why they do what they do, but as I also collect other products and their stuff is just as brutal if not moreso in baseball and hockey. Look at Prime cuts baseball. Going by the name and 250 dollar a pack(box) price point you would be expecting veteran and HOF autos right? Well, 1/3 boxes has nothing but prospect autos. And pretty much everything is stickers. LOL? The gimmick for this particular set were shoeless joe jackson GU cards as well as a bat barrel. (Which is shady itself, there is only one known Joe Jackson GU bat I doubt panini bought it or we would of heard all about the auction/sale)

Basically they will only do just enough to hopefully get the product off the shelves. This is clearly the best strategy to use if you are attempting to make as much profit as possible in a short period, but as anyone who is successful in business will tell you, if panini intends to stay profitable in this business long term they better get their act together and produce some quality.

Well sorry about the rant, it kind of just came spilling out due to my frustration.

[SPauthentic84]

You and me both. Agree on everything you said.

I hate that i am starting to dabble in baseball and football. If panini was doing things right, i would have no need to do so. I dont know who to blame, the nba or panini, but either way the current state of the hobby is awful in my opinion for so many different reasons. I know this is a hobby but the return is not there for many people to bust (which is bad for the hobby no matter how you look at it). Outside of nt raps, sillouttes, and very few oncard autos, the designs lack so bad to ever make me want to spend money on them. These are just my opinions, im sure some will disagree, but many more share my thoughts.

I wonder if there is an easy, organized way (possibly through blowout) to atleast get the nba to open up the market (if ud cant get their act together)

[Qwasian]

I need someone to get in the game and open up the NBA trading card market....... panini is cool but I need alternatives too.

[carl2001]

You and me both. Agree on everything you said.

I hate that i am starting to dabble in baseball and football. If panini was doing things right, i would have no need to do so. I dont know who to blame, the nba or panini, but either way the current state of the hobby is awful in my opinion for so many different reasons. I know this is a hobby but the return is not there for many people to bust (which is bad for the hobby no matter how you look at it). Outside of nt raps, sillouttes, and very few oncard autos, the designs lack so bad to ever make me want to spend money on them. These are just my opinions, im sure some will disagree, but many more share my thoughts.

I wonder if there is an easy, organized way (possibly through blowout) to atleast get the nba to open up the market (if ud cant get their act together)

i have dabbled in baseball and football too. those chrome on-card autos are awesome!!!

[mrlaker]

You and me both. Agree on everything you said.

I hate that i am starting to dabble in baseball and football. If panini was doing things right, i would have no need to do so. I dont know who to blame, the nba or panini, but either way the current state of the hobby is awful in my opinion for so many different reasons. I know this is a hobby but the return is not there for many people to bust (which is bad for the hobby no matter how you look at it). Outside of nt raps, sillouttes, and very few oncard autos, the designs lack so bad to ever make me want to spend money on them. These are just my opinions, im sure some will disagree, but many more share my thoughts.

I wonder if there is an easy, organized way (possibly through blowout) to atleast get the nba to open up the market (if ud cant get their act together)


same here, used to spend 80% of my money busting basketball 20% other sports. Now its 95 percent other sports and 5 percent basketball, if that.

[bmc398]

So as I think we all know, upperdeck is on the verge of shutting it's doors, everyone seems to think it's just a matter of when(correct me if you've heard differently).

Now my question pertains to their contracts with MJ and Lebron. When UD does finally go under, does this free up MJ and Lebron to sign cards for panini? Also, wouldn't panini be able to use upper decks previous designs and set names as well at that point? Similar to what happened with fleer and the later fleer sets produced by upper deck. If so, hopefully UD goes out sooner rather than later.

Maybe I'm just trying to find a ray of hope in basketball collecting. I was a huge collector and wax buster, but I have yet to find a panini product that excites me enough to purchase much. It's almost as if panini thinks that each set only needs one thing done reasonable well and the rest can be complete #@#@#@#@. For example the XRC's seem like a good idea and add value to past and present, but then the set design is bland as hell and filled with terrible autos. Panini doesn't get that this shouldn't be what drives the product, but rather it should be a bonus. Blackbox was decent, but no on card autos of course. Preferred finally had the first nice set I've seen from panini (Silohuettes) but was otherwise completely lacking in imagination and value, especailly at 200 dollars a pack..It's all just gimmicky junk.

I would argue the competition aspect as to why they do what they do, but as I also collect other products and their stuff is just as brutal if not moreso in baseball and hockey. Look at Prime cuts baseball. Going by the name and 250 dollar a pack(box) price point you would be expecting veteran and HOF autos right? Well, 1/3 boxes has nothing but prospect autos. And pretty much everything is stickers. LOL? The gimmick for this particular set were shoeless joe jackson GU cards as well as a bat barrel. (Which is shady itself, there is only one known Joe Jackson GU bat I doubt panini bought it or we would of heard all about the auction/sale)

Basically they will only do just enough to hopefully get the product off the shelves. This is clearly the best strategy to use if you are attempting to make as much profit as possible in a short period, but as anyone who is successful in business will tell you, if panini intends to stay profitable in this business long term they better get their act together and produce some quality.

Well sorry about the rant, it kind of just came spilling out due to my frustration.

People have said that UD is going under for 2+ years now. Somehow they continue to trudge through.

I think they are getting closer and closer to the end though. Their Hockey releases (their prime bread and butter and one of the only REAL pro licenses they have) keep getting pushed back and pushed back. SPGU is usually a product that comes out early season and it didn't come out until 2 weeks before the playoffs this year. They MIGHT make 11-12 The Cup in 2013 at this rate.

The rest of their stuff is generally hit or miss. Will be interesting to see how long this can continue. I give them another year with the hockey stuff.

[fullmetal]

Many of your questions would be be addressed by the judge presiding over a bankruptcy hearing. I assume Chapter 7 versus Chapter 11. I would expect debt holders to demand liquidation of all assets, including intellectual property.

[JK8283]

Seems like Panini or another company should be willing to pay more than liquidation value of UD's assets. I could see an investing group backing a smaller chunk of the UD business after selling off some of it's non-core assets.

[dmogull]

I don't think UD is going anywhere yet, honestly. THey are coming out with a seemingly loaded 2011 Exquisite Football, and did anyone see thier previews for 2012 All Time Greats (Sports Edition)? They had some SICK cards like SPX branded MJ/Gretzky duals, TIger WOods autos...man, it looked pretty sick...it is on their Facebook page.

THey also have a bunch of other releases coming out across all sports...

[Chris P]

This is one of the reasons I'm all but out of collecting cards and focusing on game used memorabilia. I tried, but I just don't like Panini products. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part they just don't do it for me and with a monopoly on NBA cards, I just kinda gave up on cards altogether because prolly 75% of my collection in basketball.

[vikingfan101]

In my opinion, the sooner UD goes under the worse it is for the hobby.

Do you really want Panini producing Basketball without ANY competition? There products are already garbage. The last thing we need is them having any competition.

Your point on the Joe Jackson barrel is spot on though. I saw that in the pack out preview from Panini and was wondering the exact thing.

[gonygo]

I don't think UD is going anywhere yet, honestly. THey are coming out with a seemingly loaded 2011 Exquisite Football, and did anyone see thier previews for 2012 All Time Greats (Sports Edition)? They had some SICK cards like SPX branded MJ/Gretzky duals, TIger WOods autos...man, it looked pretty sick...it is on their Facebook page.

THey also have a bunch of other releases coming out across all sports...

i cant believe im saying this but im tired of the same crap from ud.. its amazing, a few mj/gretzky dual autos /3 in a product and everyone comes back for more... It's time for quality over quantity from ud...

[Orangejello727]

World of sports edition by UD was a great product. Nothing like having a bunch of autos on cards without even a picture of the player lol. They released a baseball version as well where its just autos with no pics on cards. Great job!!

UD liquidating all their sticker autos before going belly = greatest product ever in narrowminded collectors!!

[dmogull]

funny how people can not properly interpret a post and totally miss the point.

Here is my point...I don't think UD is closing up shop anytime soon given all the new (and seemingly ambitious) releases coming out in the near future. that's it, nothing more, nothing less.

[fullmetal]

funny how people can not properly interpret a post and totally miss the point.

Here is my point...I don't think UD is closing up shop anytime soon given all the new (and seemingly ambitious) releases coming out in the near future. that's it, nothing more, nothing less.

Or executives are sucking all cash from the company before debt holders can place a claim. This is not uncommon when a company lacks cash for shortterm debt repayment.

I wonder who holds their debt. The stories about 100s of unpaid athletes must make their cost to borrow insanely high.

[Kingbudd]

Many of your questions would be be addressed by the judge presiding over a bankruptcy hearing. I assume Chapter 7 versus Chapter 11. I would expect debt holders to demand liquidation of all assets, including intellectual property.

Your answer is the only true answer in this thread. The judge, not UD, will have final say in how the company operates, if it continues to operate at all. People looking at their lineup and saying they will be fine need to understand that at this point UD has no official say in the matter. Once they filed for Chapter 7 (the most likely case) they forfeited all rights to control of UD and left its future in the control of the presiding judge.

One can only hope that someone buys the rights to Jordan & Lebron's contracts, Exquisite, and other products. Hopefully, Fleer Retro will release before UD shuts down.

[fullmetal]

Thank you.

I would not volunteer to be the judge in charge.

Debt holders will demand liquidation to obtain some of the money owed to them. I assume (with hope at least) that the hobby industry will provide reports to the judge detailing adverse reactions to complete liquidation (see Fleer).

The latter opinion might seem irrelevant, but a judge should place some merit into the well-being of an industry. Many individuals depend on the industry and any decision the judge makes has positive and negative consequences.

Again, I opine in a completely speculative manner. Upper Deck is a privately held company and I have no knowledge of their debt obligations.

[mrlaker]

Your answer is the only true answer in this thread. The judge, not UD, will have final say in how the company operates, if it continues to operate at all. People looking at their lineup and saying they will be fine need to understand that at this point UD has no official say in the matter. Once they filed for Chapter 7 (the most likely case) they forfeited all rights to control of UD and left its future in the control of the presiding judge.

One can only hope that someone buys the rights to Jordan & Lebron's contracts, Exquisite, and other products. Hopefully, Fleer Retro will release before UD shuts down.

if the judge chooses, those rights go up for auction correct? Also is it possible there are things in jordan and lebrons contracts that releases them in event of UD no longer existing?

[Kingbudd]

Not really an auction; most likely a fire sale, but the premise is the same. They just liquidate and try to get as much cash as possible in a short time to pay off lenders, etc... Depending on the language of the contract with Lebron and Jordan will determine what rights they have; most likely, UD will control rights in this situation and the judge can sell those rights to recoup loses. So a company like Leaf or Panini could pick up the remainder of the contract; but it really depends on the language of the contract. This is just speculation.