One card MJ poppage = the balls

[burke23]

Huge crossover poppage (was a bgs 9.5). Took forever for a '5 day' sub, but whatever. I'm happy.
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type
1 1 XXXXXXXX GEM MINT 10 1986 FLEER 57 MICHAEL JORDAN Card

[thecomebacker]

PSA?

Congrats!

[Haiku]

That's awesome! I've done it twice and it worked one time and one time it didn't :p
I'm thinking about doing it again with another. Regardless you took a risk and it paid off
Congrats!

[jimssouvenirs]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, nice!

[murrke03]

How much more does a Psa 10 sell for then bgs9.5

[Haiku]

How much more does a Psa 10 sell for then bgs9.5

Here are the last three sales

PSA 10 MICHAEL JORDAN 1986 FLEER RC #57 50-50 CENTERED THE NICEST PSA 10 EVER ! | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSA-10-MICHAEL-JORDAN-1986-FLEER-RC-57-50-50-CENTERED-THE-NICEST-PSA-10-EVER-/140768651701?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item20c67729b5)

1986/87 Michael Jordan Fleer RC ? PSA 10 ? NO RESERVE!!!! | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item4603c093a9&item=300710663081&nma=true&pt=US_Basketball&rt=nc&si=VhDfC%252Bm3Zlb5BAAy%252F7ya1nlw8LY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)


1986 87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan Rookie RC HOF Chicago Bulls PSA 10 CENTERED | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item1c291ee60f&item=120948975119&nma=true&pt=US_Baseball&rt=nc&si=VhDfC%252Bm3Zlb5BAAy%252F7ya1nlw8LY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)

[bigcwd2000]

Awesome card! Wish I had one in my collection.

[jt16]

That's cool, what's a PSA 10 run? 15-20 bucks?

[burke23]

That's cool, what's a PSA 10 run? 15-20 bucks?

Show me the hate! I don't mind - more arbitrage opportunities :)
They gouged the crap out of me on grading costs - that was significanly more than $15-$20 right there.

[chrismiller81]

What was it worth as a Bgs 9.5?

[jt16]

Show me the hate! I don't mind - more arbitrage opportunities :)
They gouged the crap out of me on grading costs - that was significanly more than $15-$20 right there.

Haha, I am just jealous...It is a sick card.

Never hurts to add a few k to your bank account.

[SPauthentic84]

Nice! Thats awesome

[tnarg]

You're the #@#@#@#@ing man Burke. That's all there is to it. I could never crack a 9.5.

[hairyangryfella]

Great for you I guess... though I fail to see a) the desire and b) the difference... grading is so not worth overpaying for yet so many fools are sucked in by it... and especially with the risk of grading companies losing/damaging the cards...

[jt16]

Great for you I guess... though I fail to see a) the desire and b) the difference... grading is so not worth overpaying for yet so many fools are sucked in by it... and especially with the risk of grading companies losing/damaging the cards...

Grading older cards is very important. There are so many fakes out there, it is nice to know that when you buy you are getting the real deal. Also, I find it awesome that a card from 20 years ago is in mint condition. Vintage baseball is even better when you find cards from 50+ years ago in great condition.

Grading now is a scam, but I still like those gold labels.

[hairyangryfella]

Grading older cards is very important. There are so many fakes out there, it is nice to know that when you buy you are getting the real deal. Also, I find it awesome that a card from 20 years ago is in mint condition. Vintage baseball is even better when you find cards from 50+ years ago in great condition.

Grading now is a scam, but I still like those gold labels.

Yeah but this was already graded, and already graded gem mint... so it goes from gem mint to gem mint and is now worth more..?

[coltsfan23]

Nicely done!

[jr24ai3]

PSA's from the early 90s and back go for more because of their Registry.

[murrke03]

So the question of the night is...

If he resells it does he have to disclose that it was a bgs 9.5?

[jr24ai3]

So the question of the night is...

If he resells it does he have to disclose that it was a bgs 9.5?

No. People who collect PSA 10's could care less that it was ever a BGS 9.5.

[murrke03]

No. People who collect PSA 10's could care less that it was ever a BGS 9.5.

Hmmm

So just as he bought a bgs 9.5 to try and flip to a Psa 10 to increase value you don't think there is someone who buys Psa 10 with hope to flip to bgs 10 and increase value?

[smoothfidelity]

Hmmm

So just as he bought a bgs 9.5 to try and flip to a Psa 10 to increase value you don't think there is someone who buys Psa 10 with hope to flip to bgs 10 and increase value?

My belief is that is the exact reason the PSA 10's sell for more. Someone is going to buy it hoping it crosses over to a BGS 10.

[jr24ai3]

My belief is that is the exact reason the PSA 10's sell for more. Someone is going to buy it hoping it crosses over to a BGS 10.

Well that's not why. It's for the registry.

[smoothfidelity]

Well that's not why. It's for the registry.

For the registry? Explain that. Why does the registry make the card worth more?

[pingbling23]

for everyone asking, the bgs 9.5 sells in the 4k-6k range.

[murrke03]

for everyone asking, the bgs 9.5 sells in the 4k-6k range.

So that known wouldn't it be misleading to list this as strictly a Psa 10?

I'm not trying to be argumentative I just would like to know where people in the hobby stand in this.

[jr24ai3]

For the registry? Explain that. Why does the registry make the card worth more?

Because people want the #1 set registry with PSA. It makes their graded cards more desirable to some people. Not everyone does the registry. But they have a huge following for it.

[Fraser9698]

So that known wouldn't it be misleading to list this as strictly a Psa 10?

I'm not trying to be argumentative I just would like to know where people in the hobby stand in this.

When are you ever *not* argumentative?

[jr24ai3]

So that known wouldn't it be misleading to list this as strictly a Psa 10?

I'm not trying to be argumentative I just would like to know where people in the hobby stand in this.

He isn't selling a BGS 9.5. He is selling a PSA 10. That is all that matters.

[jr24ai3]

When are you ever *not* argumentative?

Was thinking the same thing.

[murrke03]

When are you ever *not* argumentative?

Please stop trolling. Go lift some weights.

[AlabamaSlamma]

For the registry? Explain that. Why does the registry make the card worth more?

i think part of it is because the ratio of PSA 10 MJs to the total MJ PSA graded population is much lower than the ratio of BGS 9.5 MJs to the total MJ BGS graded population, making a PSA 10 rarer than a BGS 9.5. i dont have a PSA subscription, but of the 6222 BGS graded MJs (excluding the 4 pristine 10s), 272 have received a 9.5, which is about 4.4% of the total population. someone else can crunch the numbers on the PSA side.

***EDIT***

so you can access the PSA pop report without a subscription. of the 13,127 PSA graded MJs, 145 have received a PSA 10, which is about just over 1% of the total population. thats a big difference.

[murrke03]

He isn't selling a BGS 9.5. He is selling a PSA 10. That is all that matters.

Is it not a bgs 9.5 as well?

People need to stop getting their feelings hurt. I'm asking a legit hobby question and would like to know opinions of members.

[AllStars2324]

He isn't selling a BGS 9.5. He is selling a PSA 10. That is all that matters.

Agree 100%

[jr24ai3]

Is it not a bgs 9.5 as well?

People need to stop getting their feelings hurt. I'm asking a legit hobby question and would like to know opinions of members.

The card is not in a BGS 9.5 holder. Once it is cracked out, the grade is no longer guaranteed.

[murrke03]

The card is not in a BGS 9.5 holder. Once it is cracked out, the grade is no longer guaranteed.

I understand what you are saying and I might buy it. haha

I guess though if someone was to ask if it was previously graded he would need to explain. If not then I think that would be very wrong.

Like I said it was just a question that popped to mind and was wondering what people thought. I mean it's similar to busting something out and then just selling it raw.

[jr24ai3]

I understand what you are saying and I might buy it. haha

I guess though if someone was to ask if it was previously graded he would need to explain. If not then I think that would be very wrong.

Like I said it was just a question that popped to mind and was wondering what people thought. I mean it's similar to busting something out and then just selling it raw.

I think everyone would agree that if someone asked you if it was ever graded by beckett that you should tell them it was a 9.5 but you won't guarantee it grades the same. But since it is no longer in a BGS 9.5 holder and BGS won't guarantee the grade, it can only cause you problems by disclosing it. If you state in an auction that it was a BGS 9.5 and someone cracks it out and resubmits to beckett and gets a 9, then you will be called a liar/scammer for telling someone it was a 9.5.

[15ncounting]

Congrats on the crossover.:)! update us with a scan when you get that GEM in -- You popped it or sent it in for review?

For others not to familiar with vintage/psa/regisrty; I know 1986 is not considered Vintage but it can be in the discussion - It's just plain and simple, for older cards, PSA 10's sells for more than BGS 9.5's, BVG 9.5's, and for Modern cards/autographs BGS is preferred.

PSA specializes in Vintage and collectors trust them more, they know more about set(vintage) imperfections more than BGS, not to mention the PSA registry separates the boys from the men.. For instance about a year ago a PSA 10 (pop 2 or 3) 1988 Fleer Larry Bird sold for 5k just so that one collector can surpass another or get closer to their ultimate goal of having the finest set.. A bgs 9.5 of the same card would not even sell for 500.

other example of sales; a BVG 10 Pristine (not BVG 9.5) 1969 Lew Alcindor sold for around 10-12k, A PSA 10 would sell upwards of 40k at least..

[ninjacookies]

congrats!

Though I'm a bit confused. Looking at the psa service level charts, seems like the '5 day' grading service is only available for cards with a declared value of 500-1999. So are you saying you undervalued the card to qualify for the 5 day service and save the extra 30 bucks?

That's one thing I hate about psa, is you have to select the service level and turnaround time according to the price of the card, unlike bgs which doesn't care if it's a 4 dollar of 7000 card...you can select whatever turnaround you want.

[hairyangryfella]

I think everyone would agree that if someone asked you if it was ever graded by beckett that you should tell them it was a 9.5 but you won't guarantee it grades the same. But since it is no longer in a BGS 9.5 holder and BGS won't guarantee the grade, it can only cause you problems by disclosing it. If you state in an auction that it was a BGS 9.5 and someone cracks it out and resubmits to beckett and gets a 9, then you will be called a liar/scammer for telling someone it was a 9.5.

I disagree. A PSA 10 should not grade as low as a 9 - unless someone handling it (ie the buyer busting it or grader unpacking it) has screwed up.
I do agree that it can cause you problems by disclosing it - in the form of lower sales figure - but that's morally the right thing to do.

Grading... why pay more, it's just a gimmick.

[burke23]

It makes me chuckle that people think there is some moral obligation to identify that this was a bgs 9.5. It's not a bgs 9.5 now, and there is no guarantee it would be a 9.5 if I cracked it out (or that it wouldn't be a bgs 10 if I resubbed there). Grading is a snapshot in time of someone's opinion - that's it. It's why people resub - they differ in opinion (right or wrong) of the interpretation of the cards condition in relation to the companies grading standards.

[murrke03]

It makes me chuckle that people think there is some moral obligation to identify that this was a bgs 9.5. It's not a bgs 9.5 now, and there is no guarantee it would be a 9.5 if I cracked it out (or that it wouldn't be a bgs 10 if I resubbed there). Grading is a snapshot in time of someone's opinion - that's it. It's why people resub - they differ in opinion (right or wrong) of the interpretation of the cards condition in relation to the companies grading standards.

i never said it was a moral obligation. so i don't know who thats addressed too.

my question is if you were to resell and someone asked you about the history of the card or if it was ever graded by bgs what would you say?

or someone offered you saying they were going to try for bgs 10? what would you say?

i'll state it again. i wanted to know what people thought about it as i've seen many threads in which people get all up in arms over someone who breaks a bgs or psa card and sells it raw. its quite a similar event as to this and i wanted to know what the general consensus was...

[jt16]

i never said it was a moral obligation. so i don't know who thats addressed too.

my question is if you were to resell and someone asked you about the history of the card or if it was ever graded by bgs what would you say?

or someone offered you saying they were going to try for bgs 10? what would you say?

i'll state it again. i wanted to know what people thought about it as i've seen many threads in which people get all up in arms over someone who breaks a bgs or psa card and sells it raw. its quite a similar event as to this and i wanted to know what the general consensus was...

You like to ask a lot of questions around here. Well what would you do?

Would you tell people that the card was a BGS 9.5, knowing it might cost you thousands of dollars? It is easy to ask questions, but by the way you act around here I sense you take the 7k and run. If I took a big gamble like Burke did I would hope to get paid off. Card is now PSA 10...end of story.

[murrke03]

You like to ask a lot of questions around here. Well what would you do?

Would you tell people that the card was a BGS 9.5, knowing it might cost you thousands of dollars? It is easy to ask questions, but by the way you act around here I sense you take the 7k and run. If I took a big gamble like Burke did I would hope to get paid off. Card is now PSA 10...end of story.

lol.

You know me so well!

LMAO that doesn't even deserve a real response.

[hairyangryfella]

You like to ask a lot of questions around here. Well what would you do?

Would you tell people that the card was a BGS 9.5, knowing it might cost you thousands of dollars? It is easy to ask questions, but by the way you act around here I sense you take the 7k and run. If I took a big gamble like Burke did I would hope to get paid off. Card is now PSA 10...end of story.

Isn't that EXACTLY why it's a question of morality?

[jt16]

Isn't that EXACTLY why it's a question of morality?

Nope. Card is PSA 10.

If this was my card I would not say anything about it being a BGS 9.5. If somebody that was interested in buying it asked me if it was graded before I would be honest and say yes.

I would not put the previous grade in my auction.

[burke23]

Just because it was a BGS 9.5 has 0 influence on what it might get if someone were to try and cross it back as a BGS 10. I haven't thought if I would tell someone it was a bgs 9.5, but I won't advertise it because it's misleading in that someone may think that's what it would be if they tried to cross it back (and there is no guarantee). As jt16 says, it's a psa 10 now. How it got there is inconsequential. I mean really - if you buy a red car and paint it black, should you disclose that car was once red? Who gives a rip? They can paint it red if they want if they buy it from you.

It's different than cracking a card out and selling raw, but even there what's wrong with cracking out a bgs 8 and selling the card as nmmt (assuming it wasn't damaged and card is accurately described)? Would you not want an accurate description? Where does morality factor in if you accurately describe something you sell?

[murrke03]

Just because it was a BGS 9.5 has 0 influence on what it might get if someone were to try and cross it back as a BGS 10. I haven't thought if I would tell someone it was a bgs 9.5, but I won't advertise it because it's misleading in that someone may think that's what it would be if they tried to cross it back (and there is no guarantee). As jt16 says, it's a psa 10 now. How it got there is inconsequential. I mean really - if you buy a red car and paint it black, should you disclose that car was once red? Who gives a rip? They can paint it red if they want if they buy it from you.

It's different than cracking a card out and selling raw, but even there what's wrong with cracking out a bgs 8 and selling the card as nmmt (assuming it wasn't damaged and card is accurately described)? Would you not want an accurate description? Where does morality factor in if you accurately describe something you sell?

Well the car analogy is completely not the same thing.

So if someone were to ask you about if it was previously graded or said they were going to try and get it graded by bgs what would you say?

Oh an you really think someone would buy a Psa 10 to cross to a bgs 9.5? Lol

[Orangejello727]

The reason why BGS 9.5 have taken a bit of a dip for the majority of them is because people are discounting and paying premiums based on subgrades. Most BGS 9.5 with a 9.0 sub or no 10 subs get the lower end while 1 or 2 10 subs get much higher.

Atleast with PSA 10s and no breakdown in subs it keeps it more consistent. For me personally the difference between a 0.5 sub bump within a bgs 9.5 is not worth a 1-2k premium.

[Orangejello727]

Just because it was a BGS 9.5 has 0 influence on what it might get if someone were to try and cross it back as a BGS 10. I haven't thought if I would tell someone it was a bgs 9.5, but I won't advertise it because it's misleading in that someone may think that's what it would be if they tried to cross it back (and there is no guarantee). As jt16 says, it's a psa 10 now. How it got there is inconsequential. I mean really - if you buy a red car and paint it black, should you disclose that car was once red? Who gives a rip? They can paint it red if they want if they buy it from you.

It's different than cracking a card out and selling raw, but even there what's wrong with cracking out a bgs 8 and selling the card as nmmt (assuming it wasn't damaged and card is accurately described)? Would you not want an accurate description? Where does morality factor in if you accurately describe something you sell?

Back in the old days, D&A used to roam card expos buying up bgs 9s. Having them crossed over to psa 10 then recrossing them to bgs 9.5 This was back in the early 00s. I followed suit on a few. I did it with a bgs 9 98 SPX Spectrum rc. BGS 9 to psa 10 to BGS 9.5

[jr24ai3]

Well the car analogy is completely not the same thing.

So if someone were to ask you about if it was previously graded or said they were going to try and get it graded by bgs what would you say?

Oh an you really think someone would buy a Psa 10 to cross to a bgs 9.5? Lol

Why do you feel the need to grill this guy? Why are you always so concerned with everyone elses business? Are you buying a $9,000 PSA 10 Jordan RC? Probably not, so chill out.

Anyone who thinks they have a good shot at crossing a PSA 10 to a BGS 10 Pristine is crazy. 90% of the people buying a PSA 10 are doing so because they collect PSA over BGS. Not to cross it over.

If it was my card, I wouldn't tell anyone up front that it was a BGS 9.5 because it isn't graded by them anymore. If they asked, I would tell them it was a 9.5.

[murrke03]

I'm not grilling anybody. I'm asking a simple question.

Oh and isn't supposed Jordan exquisite shilling not every bodies business but how many threads are there in that a week?

[Idol]

I'm not grilling anybody. I'm asking a simple question.

Oh and isn't supposed Jordan exquisite shilling not every bodies business but how many threads are there in that a week?

Honestly it wouldn't matter if this card was a BGS 9.5 prior. All that matters is that its in a PSA 10 holder and that's it. End of story.

The first BGS 10 Pristine Jordan was actually a SGC 98 that was crossed over to a BGS 10 and sold for like $100k I believe.

Grading is subjective to the grader and it is soley their opinion.

Crossing cards over to BGS or PSA is an everyday thing.

[burke23]

Back in the old days, D&A used to roam card expos buying up bgs 9s. Having them crossed over to psa 10 then recrossing them to bgs 9.5 This was back in the early 00s. I followed suit on a few. I did it with a bgs 9 98 SPX Spectrum rc. BGS 9 to psa 10 to BGS 9.5

That's kind of my point - I certainly could disclose up front this was a bgs 9.5, but if it was also a bgs 9 before that do I have a responsibility to disclose that? No one can argue that grading is perfect - it's why folks resub or crack and resub. It's why they say to buy the card, not the slab. Why buy a 9.5 if it looks like it was overgraded? I wouldn't. Would I buy a 9 that looks like it could 9.5 in hopes of cracking it out for a bump? Sure would.

[jr24ai3]

I'm not grilling anybody. I'm asking a simple question.

Oh and isn't supposed Jordan exquisite shilling not every bodies business but how many threads are there in that a week?

I don't get the point of the Jordan Exquisite threads either. Most of the people complaining about it wouldn't have bought the Exquisites at the prices they were at before they got hot.

It just seems like a lot of people on here want to be the sports card industry police and the morality police. I personally don't care if people are shilling cards up to 10k that were originally 4k. I can't afford it at either level. Is it wrong to shill, yes. You don't have to get involved and worked up over everything that is wrong in the world.

If I walk into a locker room and see Sandusky raping a boy, of course you should step in and stop it.
If I see that some auctions have been shilled on ebay, I just move on.

You have to learn to pick your battles and not get worked up over everything.

[murrke03]

I don't get the point of the Jordan Exquisite threads either. Most of the people complaining about it wouldn't have bought the Exquisites at the prices they were at before they got hot.

It just seems like a lot of people on here want to be the sports card industry police and the morality police. I personally don't care if people are shilling cards up to 10k that were originally 4k. I can't afford it at either level. Is it wrong to shill, yes. You don't have to get involved and worked up over everything that is wrong in the world.

If I walk into a locker room and see Sandusky raping a boy, of course you should step in and stop it.
If I see that some auctions have been shilled on ebay, I just move on.

You have to learn to pick your battles and not get worked up over everything.

Oh the irony of this post.

First no one is getting worked up over it or having their feelings hurt. My post was merely bringing awareness to it and how I thought it was similar to how others abuse the use of titles on eBay.

Second it's quite ironic how you fight against the moral or eBay police but feel the necessity to act as thread/troll police and call out someone for mentioning a point.

Lol