The cup 2011-12 holy grail- back doored?

[hermanotarjeta]

For me, the best card in the entire run was the nugent-hopkins 93/99 RAP. Well, you all heard it went for 9k BIN within 2 minutes of listing. It's funny, the only two other cards the seller was selling were, guess what, the Crosby stick nameplate 1/1 and the Lemieux/Francis dual nhl logo auto 1/1. These monster hits would have taken CASES of unopened product to hit, though the seller didn't have any other singles for sale from the cup. If you look at all his sales on ebay, he just sells Upper deck cards - no topps, no panini, nothing but upper deck.

Is it possible that these major hits were never even available to the public? Is the seller somehow connected to UD? hmm........

[cking]

Very possible its upper deck themselves. Why sell a tin full of cards for 500-600 when you can sell individual cars for 9k. Sell the tins to the rubes who think all the good hits are in them and laugh all the way to the bank. I dont pUt anything past anyone when it comes to money. The world has never been in a greedier state then it is right now.Me,Me,Me,I,I,I.

[eaglesvikings]

I agree as well, not in a million yrs can someone be that lucky with a product like this

[BoxBreaker72]

Very possible its upper deck themselves. Why sell a tin full of cards for 500-600 when you can sell individual cars for 9k. Sell the tins to the rubes who think all the good hits are in them and laugh all the way to the bank. I dont pUt anything past anyone when it comes to money. The world has never been in a greedier state then it is right now.Me,Me,Me,I,I,I.

Agree 10000%

Becketts 2007 Exquisite controversy also... AP 1/1 and Payton/Piccolo dual cut in the SAME BOX. They have never fully recovered from that.

[eaglesvikings]

amazingly i emailed asking were they were pulled and the auctions are now ended

[BoxBreaker72]

amazingly i emailed asking were they were pulled and the auctions are now ended

Something is starting to stink here....

[jimssouvenirs]

Bet you couldn't guess that the Upper Deck HQ is in Carlsbad, CA

And the seller is from San Diego, a mere 35 miles away...

[hermanotarjeta]

Hey, you're right, auctions now ended.

UD used to be in Carlsbad, seller is in San Diego, just south of Carlsbad. It is possible the seller may have been an ex-employee or an associate of someone who works at UD. Ud moved to north carolina, but they still have strong ties in southern california.

This wouldn't be the first time if something fishy is going on here. I remember seeing a lot of cards that weren't supposed to be released yet back in the day at shows a week before the product was out, including a lebron james 23/100 sp game used jersey card.

What kind of security does UD got at the packing plant? I mean, leaking out some of the best hits?

That's complete BS if you ask me....

I mean if you are going to do it, don't leave a paper trail....

[hermanotarjeta]

Most of his completed auctions and feedback items look like things upper deck would hold back to give away as replacements, stuff that would be lying around, "extras" for promos, etc. etc.

Something stinks really badly here...

[BoxBreaker72]

Most of his completed auctions and feedback items look like things upper deck would hold back to give away as replacements, stuff that would be lying around, "extras" for promos, etc. etc.

Something stinks really badly here...

It's very interesting that every single card he sells/sold is Upper Deck.

I am almost positive there is something going on here.

[WilsonValdez]

Wow, Upper Deck involved in shady business, backdooring cards? I am just utterly shocked. I would have never expected it out of such a reputable company and president.

Edit: Wow, after looking at his past items sold, like someone mentioned, it's almost all rare UD stuff. A lot of rare stuff from older years too. This is clearly a back-door job.

I would be VERY angry if I busted any of The Cup, right now.

[cardozo]

hope it's not true but it does sound fishy......

[ZappBrannigan]

For me, the best card in the entire run was the nugent-hopkins 93/99 RAP. Well, you all heard it went for 9k BIN within 2 minutes of listing. It's funny, the only two other cards the seller was selling were, guess what, the Crosby stick nameplate 1/1 and the Lemieux/Francis dual nhl logo auto 1/1. These monster hits would have taken CASES of unopened product to hit, though the seller didn't have any other singles for sale from the cup. If you look at all his sales on ebay, he just sells Upper deck cards - no topps, no panini, nothing but upper deck.

Is it possible that these major hits were never even available to the public? Is the seller somehow connected to UD? hmm........

He probably has a huge wallet. A huge percentage of this stuff doesn't see the light of day on these small forums and ebay, so I wouldn't doubt he purchased them. I haven't bought Panini product either.....

[Prospect Rush]

Man these card companies have stupid people running them.

[Oilers1980]

I saw that the card had been listed with a starting price of $.99 originally, and then that auction was ended with another one posted with BIN that ended immediately.

I assumed that somebody saw the original auction and contacted this guy asking what a BIN price would be and they worked it out. Then the new auction was posted on ebay (potentially for buyers security or for seller exposure?) and the offer that was agreed on was accepted right away.

that's just what I thought when I originally saw the listing.

I do agree that it's insane to have those 3 huge Cup hits for sale and nothing else?
Is he an LCS that sells on behalf of customers (if so what are the odds these 3 huge cards were A) pulled in the same store B) requested to be sold by the LCS? Does he know UD? who knows.....

with a hand-packed product, I've always wondered if certain hits would end up in certain locations.

he probably just bought a stacked tin and chucked the 3 base cards..........

[whityscards]

how long ago was the auction? Buyer has already left feedback for the RNH....


Wow just Wow....if UD really kept this out of boxes there needs to be some legal actions....by far one of the best cards in the products


check this card out sold by the same seller....

Upper Deck Babe Ruth Legendary Lumber Game Used Bat Autograph Card BR-LC #3/3 (#140696620415) sold for close to $15K

[matpat21]

Certainly makes me wonder because every year I buy a few cases of this product and always do very well. This year I have opened a few cases and haven't hit a single decent card and certainly not a single card that resembles a case hit. Prior to seeing this thread I was thinking something was up with the product this year and this honestly just makes my feelings even stronger, it's a damn shame......

[hermanotarjeta]

I'm not going to say all big hits are backdoored, but I know some are. It's a shame because the company reps can always say they hold back a small percentage of cards selected "at random" for replacements, promotions, etc. it's the sad reality of cracking wax. Unless the companies have a third party certifier that can support that all cards made it into a product, the companies can always skirt around this issue. The company heads don't personally oversee the pack out process, this raises the potential for too many unscrupulous employees who can sneak product out- they know they are printing and packing out cash. The only thing we can do as collectors is not buy the products, which they know won't happen- we will buy regardless- so why should they care? It's gotta hit their bottom line to make a difference. Unfortunately, it won't.

[monkeymcgee]

That's disgusting and not even a smart way to do it--shows you how much they worry about this being discovered...

http://www.thehistorycompany.com/albums/Wing_Chong_Market/Wing_Chong_exterior/WingChong_back_door.jpg

[Giovanni99]

This guy also sold an UD Babe Ruth Legendary Lumber Game Used Bat Autograph Card for $14,877.00 in May. He's some lucky! LOL.

[BackupGoalie]

This is pretty shady, I think Upper Deck might be on their last leg

[Brobocop]

Between this, the red Bryce Harper Auto being sent as a replacement, and the accusations of the companies using fake jerseys makes me not want to buy any of their cards, not just Upper Deck.

[cking]

Panini held back the Sam Bradford Mirror Black Shield from 2010 Certified and Topps held back one of the Andy Dalton superfractors from 2011 Finest. I have no problem with them holding on too them for replacements as long as they tell you those cards are not available in packs. At least you know if you have a chance to pull one or not and can base your decision on if you choose to still purchase wax.

[Brobocop]

Panini held back the Sam Bradford Mirror Black Shield from 2010 Certified and Topps held back one of the Andy Dalton superfractors from 2011 Finest. I have no problem with them holding on too them for replacements as long as they tell you those cards are not available in packs. At least you know if you have a chance to pull one or not and can base your decision on if you choose to still purchase wax.

This would be nice of them to share.

[hermanotarjeta]

It would have been nice to share that the National Treasures rookie Tyreke and Blake logoman 1/1 patch autos were not available to the public either.

[t2554]

Panini held back the Sam Bradford Mirror Black Shield from 2010 Certified and Topps held back one of the Andy Dalton superfractors from 2011 Finest. I have no problem with them holding on too them for replacements as long as they tell you those cards are not available in packs. At least you know if you have a chance to pull one or not and can base your decision on if you choose to still purchase wax.
Then when someone pulls a scrub player superfractor they can 'damage' it and send it in for replacement, knowing they have a good chance of getting that star's super..

Just looking at it from the other side.

[cking]

you certinly do have a good point. But what if someone pulls a super of a great player and its damaged out of the pack? What you stated above is the reason they dont release the names of the cards who they are holding back.

[Oilers1980]

in my opinion, to hold back a major attraction that is advertised as being in a product is just fraud.

Not saying that happened with the cup at all, but if those examples you guys pointed to are true, why should anyone buy product at all.

I wouldn't buy a lottery ticket if the top prize was just a theory.....

[hermanotarjeta]

That's why i'm not buying anymore until it's less than $400 a tin.

[Aomalle27]

UD has all sorts of legal problems, including lawsuits for not paying players for autos, redemption issues (although this was strange cause guy bought cases of stuff 5 yrs old and still wanted to redeem) plus ALOT of fraud dealing with high end cards including jersey fakes. Wouldn't put it past
Richard McWilliam and Paul Meyer. Why not keep all the choicest hits and sell them 3 rd party. Man if I ever won the lottery I'd start my own card company with integrity. Still confused why the don't publish photos of all their cup cards to ensure that collectors are getting the real deal

[rojallad]

I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that he legitimately nailed it on a case. But, after plowing through two master saves and getting nothin even close to e hits that he displayed and sold, I will have to agree with all here that this is something very shady and I am upset. I spent $6k on my cases and now knowing that i potentially got screwed by UD?

However, I did bust 4 full cases of exquisite football and double my money. So is UD only screwing the hockey fans?

[FrankieP]

UD used to be in Carlsbad, seller is in San Diego, just south of Carlsbad. It is possible the seller may have been an ex-employee or an associate of someone who works at UD. Ud moved to north carolina, but they still have strong ties in southern california.

UD still has their HQ in Carlsbad, and they have a facility in NC.

[hermanotarjeta]

UD has all sorts of legal problems, including lawsuits for not paying players for autos, redemption issues (although this was strange cause guy bought cases of stuff 5 yrs old and still wanted to redeem) plus ALOT of fraud dealing with high end cards including jersey fakes. Wouldn't put it past
Richard McWilliam and Paul Meyer. Why not keep all the choicest hits and sell them 3 rd party. Man if I ever won the lottery I'd start my own card company with integrity. Still confused why the don't publish photos of all their cup cards to ensure that collectors are getting the real deal

This is probably not Upper Deck's fault, per se, I don't think the CEO is telling it's employees to hold back their best cards from a product.

I think it's an internal issue where security at the printing plant and packing room is too lax, ie too easy for unscrupulous UD employees to snatch cards out of the run. I mean, they actually had an image of the 93/99 Nugent hopkins RAP on twitter during their packout day - you have to almost assume it was packed out. Then again, since they pulled the card out specifically to take a picture of it, who knows what happened to the card afterwards. The upper deck manager probably told the employee to get it back into the packout, the employee puts it in his pocket on his way back to the packing room, then ships it to his buddy across country, they sell it on ebay, and they both get several thousand for their ingenuity. Upper deck is at fault for not watching it's employees more closely, not at fault for not placing the best hits into their products.

I suppose you are only as good as your least honest employee- it still looks bad for the company.

[WilsonValdez]

It would have been nice to share that the National Treasures rookie Tyreke and Blake logoman 1/1 patch autos were not available to the public either.

This is interesting....go on ;)

[Andrew Jones]

This is probably not Upper Deck's fault, per se, I don't think the CEO is telling it's employees to hold back their best cards from a product.

I think it's an internal issue where security at the printing plant and packing room is too lax, ie too easy for unscrupulous UD employees to snatch cards out of the run. I mean, they actually had an image of the 93/99 Nugent hopkins RAP on twitter during their packout day - you have to almost assume it was packed out. Then again, since they pulled the card out specifically to take a picture of it, who knows what happened to the card afterwards. The upper deck manager probably told the employee to get it back into the packout, the employee puts it in his pocket on his way back to the packing room, then ships it to his buddy across country, they sell it on ebay, and they both get several thousand for their ingenuity. Upper deck is at fault for not watching it's employees more closely, not at fault for not placing the best hits into their products.

I suppose you are only as good as your least honest employee- it still looks bad for the company.

Does UD even pack out their own products? I thought most of the larger card companies used third parties to print and pack out their products.

[pepsiporch]

This is interesting....go on ;)

Blake Griffin nt logoman was pulled from a box

[hermanotarjeta]

Blake Griffin nt logoman was pulled from a box

So was the Tyreke. Unfortunately, i'm not sure those boxes were available to the general public, allegedly.

[WilsonValdez]

So was the Tyreke. Unfortunately, i'm not sure those boxes were available to the general public, allegedly.

Goooo on....allegedly.

[hermanotarjeta]

Well, apparently, a shipment never got packed into the wooden boxes, and somehow made it out into the streets as just the inner black boxes, stickers intact. This is just heresay, but I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened.

I also want to find out what happened to the 2008 Exquisite Tiger Woods #1-9/10. The inscription was 10/10 and the /3 parallels and 1/1 were inserted into packs, but i've never seen #1-9/10, apparently they were never made.

Or were they?

[solt0131]

Does UD even pack out their own products? I thought most of the larger card companies used third parties to print and pack out their products.

For The Cup, they do the packout themselves.

[Aomalle27]

Would you really be surprised if UD had premier cards walk out the door? They don't have a definitive number of cards that they put in a tin of the cup. Sometimes 5 other times 6. Just short a tin the case hit. And no ones the wiser. You still ship out the correct number of tins and the number of actual cards shipped out is arbitrary. This is also the company that forged Konkani cards and used Kareem Abdul Jabar s likeness with his permission or compensation. And they still owe several nfl and MLB players their signing fees.

[Aomalle27]

That's Konami and WITHOUT Kareem's permission

[ZappBrannigan]

This post should be called "I've just woken from a multi-year coma can you repeat what happened again?

[Aomalle27]

Well seeing your post in the done with UD header, you undoubtably would just classify this guys hits on 11-12 as "lucky". The rest of us don't seem so convinced. Pulling Ryan Nugent Hopkins RAP #93/99. Would be lucky. Crosby stick plate also? Incredibly lucky, and Lemieux Francis dual shields? C'mon. Especially since these are the only three cards he/she is selling?

[strider_boi]

Well, apparently, a shipment never got packed into the wooden boxes, and somehow made it out into the streets as just the inner black boxes, stickers intact. This is just heresay, but I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened.

I also want to find out what happened to the 2008 Exquisite Tiger Woods #1-9/10. The inscription was 10/10 and the /3 parallels and 1/1 were inserted into packs, but i've never seen #1-9/10, apparently they were never made.

Or were they?

Ugh...those packs...I remember those damn things....

[hermanotarjeta]

Guess what, a thread alluding to this thread got locked down by a moderator on a different message board. I wonder why?.........CAUSE UPPER DECK SUPPLIES THE COMPANY WITH WAX, and implying anything bad about a company that supplies their board's owner with tons of wax is a no-no, unfortunately.

I love upper deck cards - that's all I own, but I can't tolerate this kind of shenanigans...thanks BO for letting us speak out on this topic, we know you are huge fans of UD, lol.

[ZappBrannigan]

Well seeing your post in the done with UD header, you undoubtably would just classify this guys hits on 11-12 as "lucky". The rest of us don't seem so convinced. Pulling Ryan Nugent Hopkins RAP #93/99. Would be lucky. Crosby stick plate also? Incredibly lucky, and Lemieux Francis dual shields? C'mon. Especially since these are the only three cards he/she is selling?

Where does it says he pulled them?

[hche]

After UD made fake Yugioh cards while they have the North America exclusive distribution license, I am not surprised at anything they may be doing.....

[WilsonValdez]

Guess what, a thread alluding to this thread got locked down by a moderator on a different message board. I wonder why?.........CAUSE UPPER DECK SUPPLIES THE COMPANY WITH WAX, and implying anything bad about a company that supplies their board's owner with tons of wax is a no-no, unfortunately.

I love upper deck cards - that's all I own, but I can't tolerate this kind of shenanigans...thanks BO for letting us speak out on this topic, we know you are huge fans of UD, lol.

Cnc??????????????

[Inferno]

Guess what, a thread alluding to this thread got locked down by a moderator on a different message board. I wonder why?.........CAUSE UPPER DECK SUPPLIES THE COMPANY WITH WAX, and implying anything bad about a company that supplies their board's owner with tons of wax is a no-no, unfortunately.

I love upper deck cards - that's all I own, but I can't tolerate this kind of shenanigans...thanks BO for letting us speak out on this topic, we know you are huge fans of UD, lol.

Well you do realize you are making some pretty serious accusations with little to no proof, what do you expect? There are a few unlikely, but still plausible, reasons how this could have happened:

1) Maybe he breaks a LOT of The Cup. I'm sure you are aware that there are some collectors out there who break mind-boggling amounts of The Cup, one of whom is a member here, so there is a small chance that he did in fact pull those cards. Instead of listing hundreds of singles maybe he sells the huge hits and someone else handles the sales of the lesser cards on his behalf. It's not unusual.

2) Maybe he is a dealer or store owner and his customers pull the cards which he then sells for them on eBay. Did anybody get any kind of response from the guy as to what he does or where he gets the cards?

3) Third and least likely of all, maybe he actually was that lucky and pulled those cards himself. Odds are stacked way against that being the case but who really knows.

Before you call me an Upper Deck supporter believe me, I am far from it. I have not opened UD wax in at least three or four years and I don't trust their "game-worn memorabilia" are far as I can throw Richard McWilliam. I believe they are a shady and corrupt company behind closed doors but like anyone else here I don't have the evidence to support a claim like this even though it could be true. I find numerous cases of fake or incorrect memorabilia being used on UD cards and I am quick to point it out to other collectors, when I have the evidence to prove it.

My point is if you fly into a forum with a head of steam - much less one who is sponsored by or partnered with the company in question - and accuse any that company of committing evil without proof it is going to result in closed threads and you can't really be surprised when it happens. If you do find evidence by all means let me know because I want to know the truth about shady dealings as much as the next guy.

[hermanotarjeta]

Well you do realize you are making some pretty serious accusations with little to no proof, what do you expect? There are a few unlikely, but still plausible, reasons how this could have happened:

1) Maybe he breaks a LOT of The Cup. I'm sure you are aware that there are some collectors out there who break mind-boggling amounts of The Cup, one of whom is a member here, so there is a small chance that he did in fact pull those cards. Instead of listing hundreds of singles maybe he sells the huge hits and someone else handles the sales of the lesser cards on his behalf. It's not unusual.

2) Maybe he is a dealer or store owner and his customers pull the cards which he then sells for them on eBay. Did anybody get any kind of response from the guy as to what he does or where he gets the cards?

3) Third and least likely of all, maybe he actually was that lucky and pulled those cards himself. Odds are stacked way against that being the case but who really knows.

Before you call me an Upper Deck supporter believe me, I am far from it. I have not opened UD wax in at least three or four years and I don't trust their "game-worn memorabilia" are far as I can throw Richard McWilliam. I believe they are a shady and corrupt company behind closed doors but like anyone else here I don't have the evidence to support a claim like this even though it could be true. I find numerous cases of fake or incorrect memorabilia being used on UD cards and I am quick to point it out to other collectors, when I have the evidence to prove it.

My point is if you fly into a forum with a head of steam - much less one who is sponsored by or partnered with the company in question - and accuse any that company of committing evil without proof it is going to result in closed threads and you can't really be surprised when it happens. If you do find evidence by all means let me know because I want to know the truth about shady dealings as much as the next guy.

The fact that I even need to be concerned about this scenario is enough for discussion on a message board. Would it surprise me if it happens? No. Does it make me second guess about actually buying another sealed product? Yes. If I have this much concern about it, you figure the companies would take steps to give us that reassurance. Maybe we've been too trusting of the companies over the years that they don't need to prove anything - we've shown we will buy anything, regardless. I don't think this is an isolated incident for me. I've seen several other instances similar to this before, and that's why i've brought it up for discussion purposes. Has anyone else had any suspicions?

Is something like this, if true, going to affect your spending habits?

How does this undermine the entire sports cards industry?

I think the purpose of this thread wasn't to make a specific accusation at a specific card company, per se, but just to spark some discussion about realistic scenarios that may conflict from what we would assume to be true, but perhaps we take for granted and makes us susceptible to being "victimized" by false assumptions.

[Giovanni99]

Upper Deck has noticed. They posted on their Facebook page that they are investigating those suspicious sales. Even if nothing else happens, at least they are aware.

[hermanotarjeta]

Upper Deck has noticed. They posted on their Facebook page that they are investigating those suspicious sales. Even if nothing else happens, at least they are aware.

Thank goodness. At least they are looking into it. I'm sure their investigation is going to turn out negative, but what else would you expect? They are not going to incriminate themselves, even if it was possibly done by one of their ex-employees, for instance.

At least others have taken notice and Upper Deck will address this matter appropriately, or at least re-evaluate their own security measures so that we as collectors can be confident we are purchasing legitimate products. I think it is to the card companies best interest to keep their customers in the loop about matters like this. Reassurance = more sales, at least from me.

I know they mention their packout is in north carolina, but you can always express ship stuff anywhere around the country.

As with the other guy on FB commenting about opening many cases, I've opened double digit cases the last two years of cup and you don't get that caliber of hit, even in clusters of cases. I've done enough to know something just doesn't seem right....

[Oilers1980]

From UD:
We are investigating those sales, but the thing is that the product was packed out in North Carolina so none of the San Diego staff could have those cards. These cards were never at our Carlsbad facility. Again, we have heard concerns about it and our security team is looking into it, but it doesn't appear to be a "back door" situation as many are alleging.

Of course nothing would come out of it if it was discovered there was fraud or theft or anything of the sort - can you imagine trying to make it up to all of the consumers that bought the product? Not possible. And it would likely ruin them.

[Aomalle27]

It's not the fact that case hits were made, it's the fact that 3 SET hits were made. #1 draft pick rookie Jersey# patch. A Crosby stck name plate (he's always gonna be most desirable) And the Lemieux Francis shields? Do you really think UD risks sending say all the NHopkins rookies to the States and none to Canada which would be possible if this stuff was sent out random?! Of course not. I still believe the process is rigged. Why not reward your "certified diamond" dealers with some monster hit tins? Encourages more people to buy from those dealers.

[Aomalle27]

Plus what are the chances of pulling those AND the babe Ruth bat card? With luck like that the guy's be sh@tting gold bricks while catching leprechauns on flypaper outside his house. Situated at the bottom of a rainbow.

[Prospect Rush]

Plus what are the chances of pulling those AND the babe Ruth bat card? With luck like that the guy's be sh@tting gold bricks while catching leprechauns on flypaper outside his house. Situated at the bottom of a rainbow.

Similar to the chances that UD has no clue where the cards came from.

[buckeyeforlife]

what is the guy's ebay name?

[hermanotarjeta]

what is the guy's ebay name?

Here's the guy's auction:



2012 Upper Deck The Cup Ryan Nugent Hopkins Auto Patch Card 93/99 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Upper-Deck-The-Cup-Ryan-Nugent-Hopkins-Auto-Patch-Card-93-99-/140853145443?pt=US_Hockey_Trading_Cards&hash=item20cb806f63)

[Aomalle27]

Look at his completed auction feedback. Here's one I just cut and pasted from page 2 of his feedback

Upper Deck Babe Ruth Legendary Lumber Game Used Bat Autograph Card BR-LC #3/3 (#140696620415) US $14,877.00

Maybe he just busts a lot of tins my a$$.

[cking]

This is why I dont bust wax

[mortuus]

def something is wrong, whoever says otherwise needs to open their eyes

wake up kids!!!!!

[ZappBrannigan]

Just stop buying their products, go buy ITG and Panini. Let the witch hunt begin!

[hermanotarjeta]

Well you do realize you are making some pretty serious accusations with little to no proof, what do you expect? There are a few unlikely, but still plausible, reasons how this could have happened:

1) Maybe he breaks a LOT of The Cup. I'm sure you are aware that there are some collectors out there who break mind-boggling amounts of The Cup, one of whom is a member here, so there is a small chance that he did in fact pull those cards. Instead of listing hundreds of singles maybe he sells the huge hits and someone else handles the sales of the lesser cards on his behalf. It's not unusual.

2) Maybe he is a dealer or store owner and his customers pull the cards which he then sells for them on eBay. Did anybody get any kind of response from the guy as to what he does or where he gets the cards?

3) Third and least likely of all, maybe he actually was that lucky and pulled those cards himself. Odds are stacked way against that being the case but who really knows.

Before you call me an Upper Deck supporter believe me, I am far from it. I have not opened UD wax in at least three or four years and I don't trust their "game-worn memorabilia" are far as I can throw Richard McWilliam. I believe they are a shady and corrupt company behind closed doors but like anyone else here I don't have the evidence to support a claim like this even though it could be true. I find numerous cases of fake or incorrect memorabilia being used on UD cards and I am quick to point it out to other collectors, when I have the evidence to prove it.

My point is if you fly into a forum with a head of steam - much less one who is sponsored by or partnered with the company in question - and accuse any that company of committing evil without proof it is going to result in closed threads and you can't really be surprised when it happens. If you do find evidence by all means let me know because I want to know the truth about shady dealings as much as the next guy.

I think your theories are all refutable:

1) he would need to break over 100 cases of the cup within the first week of release to hit those three caliber hits. If he let's someone else sell the other 3000+ singles - where are they? I don't see anyone else listing even close to 500 cup singles in any auction. In addition, by opening 100 cases of the cup within the first week of release, you are hitting other monster hits as well- where are all the other tag/auto 1/1's, gretzky autos, other shields, other 99 rap's - those hits surely couldn't be so lowly that they were'nt worth selling on ebay along with these 3 auctions. Furthermore, where is someone going to get over 100 cases to crack within the first week? Some MAJOR retailers who have been in business for over 30 years were only able to get 10 cases, how can 1 individual have gotten over a hundred within the first week?

2)If he is a dealer or a store owner, where are the great pulls from products from other companies? The sales profiles of these type of ebay sellers ALL include big hits from topps and panini, cards pulled by their customers - I don't know any card shop that only sells upper deck stuff.

3)No, he didn't pull them himself, impossible, impossible given the explanation in 1.

Like I said, this points to an ex-UD employee who still has some sort of connection to the company, perhaps a mole or inside guy who is giving him the hook-up. Look at his completed auctions - 100 count lot of be the player hockey auto singles? Gretzky, Tiger woods auto cards with very few other singles from the OLD sets, Jordy Nelson upper deck sp edition autos? ALL stuff, bonus stuff that could have been handed out to employess/ex-employees. Jordy Nelson, really? That is the dead giveaway, lol.

I think my theory could be very defendable. In fact, if someone can get the actual name of the seller, we could find out for sure. I'm not an fbi agent, but if it came down to it, we could probably find out pretty quickly what exactly is going on.

The ruth 3/3 just baffles me - coming out of nowhere - i'd like to hear a good explanation, hopefully UD doesn't just sweep this one under the rug.

I'd also like to see the seller sell more stuff in the future - maybe UD will tell him to sell some Panini singles just to throw the general public off, lol.

[hermanotarjeta]

More suspicious patterns:

He only started selling sports cards in april, 2011. Upper Deck moved headquarters in June 2011.

He appears to be in his late 20's, early 30's based on buying patterns.

He does NOT buy sports cards on ebay.

Sorry if this seems like a witch hunt, but as a customer and fan of Upper Deck, i'm pretty tee'd off if this turns out to be something of an internal security issue.

It really is starting to stink to me.

I would like to hear an explanation from UD.

[kyle1707]

All his completed items are ud

weird

[96pavel]

come on totally back doored or an employee stole them,,, no doubt,,, impossible pulls,,,,

[zonacats8]

It doesn't matter in the end because UD WILL NEVER admit to these being anything but pack pulled because it would open the door to lawsuits

And I've got to imagine because of the high end level of product, there are quite a few lawyers with the bankroll who open lots of cases and wouldn't mind trying to stick it to UD

[frozenntimesports]

Mario / Ron Francis is not the most valuable or important shield. All he needed to do was open three tins and he could have gotten those hits.

[SethMurphy]

other completed auctions for fun....

Upper Deck Wayne Gretzky Taylor Hall Dual Enshrinements Autograph The Cup Card (#140735808037)

Upper Deck Wayne Gretzky Parkhurst Champions Autographed Card 101 32WXN (#140735809032)

Upper Deck Wayne Gretzky Programme of Excellence Autograph Card #3 of 10 PE-WG (#140731208460)

[zonacats8]

Mario / Ron Francis is not the most valuable or important shield. All he needed to do was open three tins and he could have gotten those hits.

I watched 15 boxes opened at my LCS and of a single hit anywhere near what he was selling

[hermanotarjeta]

Mario / Ron Francis is not the most valuable or important shield. All he needed to do was open three tins and he could have gotten those hits.

impossible. those are all case hits- it would have taken him 3 cases minimum to hit those.

i've opened over 50 cases of cup. I know what breaks should look like.

[Oilers1980]

other completed auctions for fun....

He also had last years Dual Shield of Hall/Paajarvi from the CUP.

[hermanotarjeta]

He also had last years Dual Shield of Hall/Paajarvi from the CUP.

What?

Is he active on message boards?

Does anyone know his identity?

[Oilers1980]

UD Taylor Hall Magnus Paajarvi Dual NHL Shields 2011 (10/14/2011)... (http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ud-taylor-hall-magnus-paajarvi-dual-219220885)

[solt0131]

He sold a Phaneuf 05/06 Cup RAP a while back...wasn't that originally a redemption?

Also, if was a breaker, you would see completed's from basically the same product/set. Everything he's sold is all over the board from many different years.

Also, he has sold a lot of 05/06 Black Diamond rookies of Ovechkin and Crosby and I have heard from a lot of people that ALOT of those were backdoored.

If anyone would like to go back thru all his feedback, I bet you'll find he sold over 20 each of the Crosby and Ovechkin Black Diamond Rookies.....all ungraded. There isn't one ungraded rookie of those guys on Ebay right now.

There is definitely something to this.....

[hermanotarjeta]

Any more updates from upper deck?

[solt0131]

Any more updates from upper deck?

Yeah right, they want this forgotten about and swept under the carpet.

[triplehattrick2]

I dont know if anybody else has noticed this...? But does any one else find it fishy as to the way he writes his titles? I mean, i know every has their certain way of typing their titles, but look how perfect he writes them out... down to the card number on the back.. Perhaps the way UD would have it on paper or spread sheet?

[hanes1111]

There is alot to be answered for here.................

[ZappBrannigan]

I think this guy is a magician or something. Or an alien looking to steal important sportscards to take back to his planet.

[XL5]

With apologies to CCR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNczeP33Yk0):

Sellin' out the back door.

Just sold out on eBay, hit a freaking payday
Got three case hits without opening a box
Got a sweet connection, and pretty soon I'm singin'
Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Amid the speculation
I'll take a nice vacation
Maybe send something nice
to my boys in Carlsbad
Ryan freaking Nugent
Makin' me a huge mint
Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

McWilliam and Meyer are packing it by hand
The one-of-ones, just for fun, they go...
Who knows to who
The Cup's case hit positions defies the statisticians

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door


McWilliam and Meyer are packing it by hand
The one-of-ones, just for fun, they go...
Who knows to who
Or maybe it's just employees, trading hits for fifties

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Next time I get on eBay, it'll be another payday
Look at all these Nameplates waiting to be sold.
Right now it is a mystery but soon it will be history

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

[Oilers1980]

^^now that is funny^^

[WilsonValdez]

WE want ANSWERS!!!!!!! Let's form an angry mob and go down to UD headquarters.

[hermanotarjeta]

With apologies to CCR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNczeP33Yk0):

Sellin' out the back door.

Just sold out on eBay, hit a freaking payday
Got three case hits without opening a box
Got a sweet connection, and pretty soon I'm singin'
Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Amid the speculation
I'll take a nice vacation
Maybe send something nice
to my boys in Carlsbad
Ryan freaking Nugent
Makin' me a huge mint
Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

McWilliam and Meyer are packing it by hand
The one-of-ones, just for fun, they go...
Who knows to who
The Cup's case hit positions defies the statisticians

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door


McWilliam and Meyer are packing it by hand
The one-of-ones, just for fun, they go...
Who knows to who
Or maybe it's just employees, trading hits for fifties

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Next time I get on eBay, it'll be another payday
Look at all these Nameplates waiting to be sold.
Right now it is a mystery but soon it will be history

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Nice work!!!! Hilarious.




Yah, I think we should really create a mob scene.

I'm so upset at UD right now. The longer their silence, the more guilty they are. They know who did it. They just want to sweep this one under the rug.

[zonacats8]

WE want ANSWERS!!!!!!! Let's form an angry mob and go down to UD headquarters.

do we get to break down the back door during said mob?

[zonacats8]

Nice work!!!! Hilarious.




Yah, I think we should really create a mob scene.

I'm so upset at UD right now. The longer their silence, the more guilty they are. They know who did it. They just want to sweep this one under the rug.

They have to sweep it under the rug, it would be really bad for them if they ever came out and admitted what really happened, even if it was one employee and nobody else knew about it at the time.

The ramifications of what it could do to that company make it not worth them coming out and saying what really happened

[dmogull]

just to give you guys a little bit of hope w/ regard to best product hits....I opened a few cases of 2010 topps triple threads and was 7 boxes into my next inner....I told the store to hold the last 2 boxes of the inner for me just in case I didn't get the inner case hit (either a white whale or triple auto)...well I didn't get the inner case hit so I contacted the guy the next day and he forgot to hold them for me and sold them to someone else. I was pissed off, so I went to my LCS in NYC after work and bought his last 2 boxes of 2010 TTT....

I got home and hit the babe ruth bat barrel (been offer north of $25k for it, prob a $30k+ card)....it was not even a redemption, it was a live card I pulled from the product and the most expensive card EVER offered in Triple Threads (for any year).

I know this doesn't have anything to do with UD, but just wanted to show that not all the best hits from card companies are backdoored.....

[hairysasquatch]

With apologies to CCR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNczeP33Yk0):

Sellin' out the back door.

Just sold out on eBay, hit a freaking payday
Got three case hits without opening a box
Got a sweet connection, and pretty soon I'm singin'
Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Amid the speculation
I'll take a nice vacation
Maybe send something nice
to my boys in Carlsbad
Ryan freaking Nugent
Makin' me a huge mint
Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

McWilliam and Meyer are packing it by hand
The one-of-ones, just for fun, they go...
Who knows to who
The Cup's case hit positions defies the statisticians

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door


McWilliam and Meyer are packing it by hand
The one-of-ones, just for fun, they go...
Who knows to who
Or maybe it's just employees, trading hits for fifties

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Next time I get on eBay, it'll be another payday
Look at all these Nameplates waiting to be sold.
Right now it is a mystery but soon it will be history

Doo doo doo, sellin' out the back door.

Hahahaha - I write these about my colleagues sometimes - helps relieve stress - great job!!

[XL5]

just to give you guys a little bit of hope w/ regard to best product hits....I opened a few cases of 2010 topps triple threads and was 7 boxes into my next inner....I told the store to hold the last 2 boxes of the inner for me just in case I didn't get the inner case hit (either a white whale or triple auto)...well I didn't get the inner case hit so I contacted the guy the next day and he forgot to hold them for me and sold them to someone else. I was pissed off, so I went to my LCS in NYC after work and bought his last 2 boxes of 2010 TTT....

I got home and hit the babe ruth bat barrel (been offer north of $25k for it, prob a $30k+ card)....it was not even a redemption, it was a live card I pulled from the product and the most expensive card EVER offered in Triple Threads (for any year).

I know this doesn't have anything to do with UD, but just wanted to show that not all the best hits from card companies are backdoored.....

Congrats, but this is UD and 2012 The Cup. Different sport, different company, different year.


BTW, looks like the 2012 Ruth knob just got pulled (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/381201-babe-ruth-ttt-bat-knob-pulled.html). Might think about taking that offer.

[dmogull]

Congrats, but this is UD and 2012 The Cup. Different sport, different company, different year.


BTW, looks like the 2012 Ruth knob just got pulled (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/381201-babe-ruth-ttt-bat-knob-pulled.html). Might think about taking that offer.

thanks and i understand this is a different company. the bat knob card is awesome, but not worth anywhere near the bat barrell nameplate...plus tier one also had a ruth bat knob which will dilute the value of the 2012 ttt babe knob

[hermanotarjeta]

thanks and i understand this is a different company. the bat knob card is awesome, but not worth anywhere near the bat barrell nameplate...plus tier one also had a ruth bat knob which will dilute the value of the 2012 ttt babe knob

I'm not saying every monster hit is backdoored. I've hit a monster from Upper deck myself.

I'm just saying in this particular product, the best hit, among others, were backdoored.

[hermanotarjeta]

Of course, this guy hasn't sold a single card since the cup nugent-hopkins 93/99, no doubt after Upper Deck told him to keep it on the low or get a new ebay id...........

[mortuus]

wait until next year

[Orangejello727]

Exquisite, Cup and NT are all hand packed. With the amount of sketch things that have happend recently, its very plausable.

Its like a company stating proper financial data and justify accuracy because it was signed off by an internal audit team! lol

[R3dm4n]

I got home and hit the babe ruth bat barrel (been offer north of $25k for it, prob a $30k+ card)....it was not even a redemption, it was a live card I pulled from the product and the most expensive card EVER offered in Triple Threads (for any year).

I know this doesn't have anything to do with UD, but just wanted to show that not all the best hits from card companies are backdoored.....

Either your lying, or someone is trying to take your credit for pulling the card, because in the bat knob thread, the person who claims they pulled it had details about the shop where it was pulled, time he pulled, and time he sold. Sooo?

[newton615]

Either your lying, or someone is trying to take your credit for pulling the card, because in the bat knob thread, the person who claims they pulled it had details about the shop where it was pulled, time he pulled, and time he sold. Sooo?

If I'm not mistaken knobs and barrels are completely different. If I'm wrong proceed to smack me then pass a pitchfork, keep the torch though I have a lighter

[monkeymcgee]

Either your lying, or someone is trying to take your credit for pulling the card, because in the bat knob thread, the person who claims they pulled it had details about the shop where it was pulled, time he pulled, and time he sold. Sooo?

dmogull has an insane Yankees collection, so I seriously doubt he would make that up

And yes, the knob and barrel are 2 different cards

[hermanotarjeta]

Gee, the seller who "could be a big time dealer" hasn't sold a single item in the past 2 months since this debacle.

In the court of public opinion, UD is guilty as charged.

[ZappBrannigan]

Hats off to the seller for making awesome connections and raking in some major coin.

[bigaust001]

Was this ever resolved? I know this is an ancient thread, but this intrigues me.