What happened to the Insert / Jordan&Kobe 90's market and buyers?!

[paul06901]

Prices seem to have plummeted for 90's inserts and MJ/Kobe cards?!

From quick glance, are guys like natsturner, etc still even buying? Have they satisfied their PCs?!


The market has completely cooled down.

I know it's off-season, but that doesn't really affect rare card sales all THAT much.


Thoughts?!...

[phdbeckett]

This has actually happened over the last 6-9 months. I have a friend who sits near the top of the Jordan/Kobe insert market, and he said the same thing a while ago and just dumped a ton of his inventory.

[nissandriver77]

This has actually happened over the last 6-9 months. I have a friend who sits near the top of the Jordan/Kobe insert market, and he said the same thing a while ago and just dumped a ton of his inventory.

Wrong according to Rare Air : "JUN" he is in the process of smashing a new record $20k +??? , If you don't believe me here read.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/376925-big-mj-trade-exquisite-against-retro-what-do-you-think-about-8.html

He signed back up under a new alias thetruth23

So the market must still be strong .

[paul06901]

This has actually happened over the last 6-9 months. I have a friend who sits near the top of the Jordan/Kobe insert market, and he said the same thing a while ago and just dumped a ton of his inventory.

Yeah it's been slowly on the decline since spring time.

Looks like the plan by many to shill/inflate then sell to honest buyers who thought they were 'getting a deal' really worked for some of these guys! (I'm not saying your friend is included in this!)


This hobby is full of frenzies ... that's really what keeps it interesting and moving forward.

Other sports are dull in comparison to bkb in terms of cards. We had old inserts on fire, then 'certified greens', then 'PMGs', followed by 'Retro' and now will likely be 'Exquisite' 's turn to glow.

[XARZY]

one word summary to the decline of the 90s market. Retro

[phdbeckett]

Paul, The insert market has been growing/building for years(I sell roughly 1000-1500 different singles a month). It is still strong. I think some of the MJ/Kobe bubble was due to a lockout and not much new products hitting the market. The overall "insert market" is very strong, as I still hit new highs for sets/players. The biggest increase I've seen is not the Late 90s but the early 90s. It is because they are overlooked, and not flashy.

[kobe824]

Definitely been a dip but I see it picking back up some once the season starts. Ecspecially if Kobe and the Lakers get off to a strong start. Plus the retro singles make the originals look that much better!

[aether]

Definitely been a dip but I see it picking back up some once the season starts. Ecspecially if Kobe and the Lakers get off to a strong start. Plus the retro singles make the originals look that much better!

thats soo true....most people realize that the inserts in RETRO are nothing like their originals right?????

[bigcwd2000]

thats soo true....most people realize that the inserts in RETRO are nothing like their originals right?????

I would hope so. If I had to choose between the original and Retro it would be the original.

[Clipperfan3]

Fleer Retro has completely screwed up the market. I have never seen anything like this before. I have been buying this dip like a madman.

[Orangejello727]

I dont know if its due to retro. I think its more of a correction in the market place as certain buyers have now fulfilled their wants with less bidding wars and spontaneous bidding going on.

Its like dropping fish food into an aquirium. First drop creates a frenzy. 2nd drop doesnt stir up as much as a frenzy. By the 3rd drop no one is biting because they have had their fill.

Been stated many times... "Ride out the tide". Wait for these guys to fill their boots. Dont go to war against them. Once they are done, you can start buying again. Most importantly, dont let anyone steer you away from by using pitch lines like "all dried up", "never will be seen again". In just about every case, another one hits open auction .

[crimedawg47]

I dont know if its due to retro. I think its more of a correction in the market place as certain buyers have now fulfilled their wants with less bidding wars and spontaneous bidding going on.

Its like dropping fish food into an aquirium. First drop creates a frenzy. 2nd drop doesnt stir up as much as a frenzy. By the 3rd drop no one is biting because they have had their fill.

Been stated many times... "Ride out the tide". Wait for these guys to fill their boots. Dont go to war against them. Once they are done, you can start buying again. Most importantly, dont let anyone steer you away from by using pitch lines like "all dried up", "never will be seen again". In just about every case, another one hits open auction .

Couldnt have said it any better myself. Whenever a new product hits the market I usually stay away from picking up the singles for my PC. I usually pay 1/2 or less a few months down the road.

[tristan20]

Retro, that's why. Everything, not just inserts, went down.

People were spending money on cases and busting retro hoping to hit the big one, then dumping them.

[hermanotarjeta]

As a collector, once you get that high-priced insert, you don't need multiple copies. Naturally, the next guy is willing to pay less than the previous guy once those collector's collections are saturated.

Cards cannot always continue to escalate in price- you hit a saturation point.

It's a hot potato market, and most "speculators/investors" don't want to get stuck with a big loss, especially if they paid a lot for a card.

Especially when people realize there are more out there than initially anticipated.

[nismo68]

I dont know if its due to retro. I think its more of a correction in the market place as certain buyers have now fulfilled their wants with less bidding wars and spontaneous bidding going on.

Its like dropping fish food into an aquirium. First drop creates a frenzy. 2nd drop doesnt stir up as much as a frenzy. By the 3rd drop no one is biting because they have had their fill.

Been stated many times... "Ride out the tide". Wait for these guys to fill their boots. Dont go to war against them. Once they are done, you can start buying again. Most importantly, dont let anyone steer you away from by using pitch lines like "all dried up", "never will be seen again". In just about every case, another one hits open auction .

agree 100%

[tristan20]

As a collector, once you get that high-priced insert, you don't need multiple copies. Naturally, the next guy is willing to pay less than the previous guy once those collector's collections are saturated.

Cards cannot always continue to escalate in price- you hit a saturation point.

It's a hot potato market, and most "speculators/investors" don't want to get stuck with a big loss, especially if they paid a lot for a card.

Especially when people realize there are more out there than initially anticipated.

Not true with the insert market, it seems like the next copy of a card to pop up has to go for more than the last one. Always setting new records. :)!

[hermanotarjeta]

Not true with the insert market, it seems like the next copy of a card to pop up has to go for more than the last one. Always setting new records. :)!

You are right. On ebay, cards are always going for record prices. We're going to start seeing six-figure sales on a regular basis soon.:)!

[jeebus_86]

Do you have any examples of this? I really haven't noticed any type of decline.

[SportsItUpCards]

Yep, i've noticed this too, but for a while now.... I guess people are starting to wake up!

Lebron, Jimmer, all the other rookies, and many members of the 50 Greatest are not in the 97-98 Metals.... they're in RETRO!!! You can't compare them, you just can't. Collectors of today could care less about Toni Kukoc, Luc Longly......... Many collectors from today however collect NBA 50 Greatest autos and GU, so these inserts are awesome for the PC! Gives them a chance to diversify their collections. You just can't expect collectors from today to give a crap about players from the 90's. Sure some will, but most won't. I think it's silly to compare the two different years. LEBRON............. nuff said.

They can't make these 90's inserts sell for new record highs forever!!! :rolleyes:

What most people don't realize, back in "those" days, people didn't have ebay, or know about it. Ebay was around, but very few sports card collectors knew about it, or even cared to give them a chance, like people do with most websites out there. I didn't start using ebay till 2004, but I would hear about it for other things, not cards.

So now you have a card numbered to 100, and the only place you can get it would be at your local card shop, card show, or a friend you knew.... lol what are the odds? :flex: No way you would find you, and if you did, you would have to pay for it! But that was before ebay though............................. thus once the world switched to ebay, cards started to sell for pennies on the dollar! :cool:

NOW..................... you have those guys who paid an arm, two legs, and nut, for these cards. But the difference here is, these people wanted to outsmart everyone else in hopes to get some or most of their money back, but heck, if they could make 10,000% while they're at it, why not....

So what did they do? They shilled, created a fake market and try to get a sucker to pay their price. But how long could this go on? Not only do we have ebay today, but we also have this little handy dandy thing called a FORUM................ :D Where we share information. Imagine that! We've had information all along, information that's long gone, as ebay auctions links don't last forever, as we all know. So that's why you have these guys challanging everyone to PROVE IT, PROVE IT. Because they know damn well all the proof is long gone.

THIS is the story my friends. But it can't go on forever.... i've said it all along, it will come to an end, and now we're seeing that. Of course after this post don't expect to see these same cards selling any where near 20 times the price ;)

Be smart people, and don't fall for everything you hear. Plus, don't let a few tell you what's the "hottest thing to collect" :rolleyes: Collect what YOU like! Don't worry about what others say, because most likely those are the people shilling these auctions, their friends, and people who don't like certain members and say things just because.

Happy collcting!

[pepsiporch]

Retro inserts may not be as nice as the originals but some are much more limited .
I am starting to notice Lebrons inserts are starting to catch up to mjs because lebron never had a lot of these inserts . There is 1 lebron blue retro compared to about 7 of mj on ebay .

[Clipperfan3]

Yep, i've noticed this too, but for a while now.... I guess people are starting to wake up!

Lebron, Jimmer, all the other rookies, and many members of the 50 Greatest are not in the 97-98 Metals.... they're in RETRO!!! You can't compare them, you just can't. Collectors of today could care less about Toni Kukoc, Luc Longly......... Many collectors from today however collect NBA 50 Greatest autos and GU, so these inserts are awesome for the PC! Gives them a chance to diversify their collections. You just can't expect collectors from today to give a crap about players from the 90's. Sure some will, but most won't. I think it's silly to compare the two different years. LEBRON............. nuff said.

They can't make these 90's inserts sell for new record highs forever!!! :rolleyes:

What most people don't realize, back in "those" days, people didn't have ebay, or know about it. Ebay was around, but very few sports card collectors knew about it, or even cared to give them a chance, like people do with most websites out there. I didn't start using ebay till 2004, but I would hear about it for other things, not cards.

So now you have a card numbered to 100, and the only place you can get it would be at your local card shop, card show, or a friend you knew.... lol what are the odds? :flex: No way you would find you, and if you did, you would have to pay for it! But that was before ebay though............................. thus once the world switched to ebay, cards started to sell for pennies on the dollar! :cool:

NOW..................... you have those guys who paid an arm, two legs, and nut, for these cards. But the difference here is, these people wanted to outsmart everyone else in hopes to get some or most of their money back, but heck, if they could make 10,000% while they're at it, why not....

So what did they do? They shilled, created a fake market and try to get a sucker to pay their price. But how long could this go on? Not only do we have ebay today, but we also have this little handy dandy thing called a FORUM................ :D Where we share information. Imagine that! We've had information all along, information that's long gone, as ebay auctions links don't last forever, as we all know. So that's why you have these guys challanging everyone to PROVE IT, PROVE IT. Because they know damn well all the proof is long gone.

THIS is the story my friends. But it can't go on forever.... i've said it all along, it will come to an end, and now we're seeing that. Of course after this post don't expect to see these same cards selling any where near 20 times the price ;)

Be smart people, and don't fall for everything you hear. Plus, don't let a few tell you what's the "hottest thing to collect" :rolleyes: Collect what YOU like! Don't worry about what others say, because most likely those are the people shilling these auctions, their friends, and people who don't like certain members and say things just because.

Happy collcting!

You are so ridiculous. I was on ebay in 99 and there was a lot of ebay trading going on back then. Not like today but there was already a huge ebay market. You are probably one of the suckers I use to trade with that would trade for a card because it had a BV of $100 but sold for only $20 while in return gave up a card that had a BV of $100 and actually sold for a $100. You talk about these guys overpaying for 90's cards? I remember the 90's market back then. These cards were selling for pennies on the dollar compared to today. You could buy an MJ Legacy for only $200-$300. Now they sell for $2000+++ Nobody was paying those inflated prices back then. So stop making up these stories about people manipulating the market because they overpaid and are trying to break even. Beckett has had all these cards priced extremely low for years so if anything they probably got even better prices then what was being paid on ebay if they actually bought the card in a card store and sat on it for 10 years.

You clearly don't know the laws of economics. If 1000 people want a card numbered to 100 then the people who are willing to spend the most are going to get the card. The sportscard game is simple. He who has the most money can get whatever cards they want. Those who don't have as much to spend only get what's left over.

Lastly, you contradict yourself so much it's unbelievable. You say why would anybody care about the players from the 90's? Why the hell would anybody care about the players from 60's-70's-80's? I'm sure that most people want to pull cards of Cazzie Russell, Hal Greer, Reggie Theus, Adrian Dantley, Rudy Tomjanovic, Darrell Griffith... need I go on?

At least Longley and Kukoc were on a historical team. But let me guess, you probably think that the 90's Bulls teams were either a scam, were cheats, or somehow don't deserve those championships.

How do you explain the currently collapsing retro market if everyone would rather have the reproductions then the originals of the cards which happen to be what these imitations are based off of.

MJ blue PMG's have already lost half there value.

And before you call me a retro hater... I am still sitting on two cases which are getting sold this weekend.

Even though I hate this crap I am smart enough to realize what sells and will always get in on it even if I am opposed to the idea.

Here they are.

http://imageshack.us/a/img341/9567/img3126z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/img3126z.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[matfanofold]

This is complete conjecture and third hand speculation, but I have heard many say over the last couple years that they believe a small group of shill bidders and false buyers/sellers have been artificially inflating this specific market in hopes to pull off amazing sales for what they are actually selling. I know it sounds like a complicated, involved, and unlikely scheme and do not entirely disagree with that. But considering some of the outlandish prices the notion that some may be willing to conspire to make some serious dough, it would not shock me...

EDIT: Just to add, I do not subscribe to this notion but it would be unwise to completely discart it out of hand knowing that people will do anything to make a buck in this hobby...

[pepsiporch]

Priced dropped a little on MJ blues but Every Mj Blue on ebay has issues . Either lines or bad corners .

[Haiku]

1997/98 PRECIOUS METAL GEMS KOBE BRYANT BGS 8.5 VERY RARE! 85/100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-PRECIOUS-METAL-GEMS-KOBE-BRYANT-BGS-8-5-VERY-RARE-85-100-/261108020510?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3ccb40351e)

^Here's and Original PMG for auction.
I think it's already much more than the Average sales of Retro MJ Red + Lebron Red.

[UltimateDeron]

thats soo true....most people realize that the inserts in RETRO are nothing like their originals right?????

Big Men on Court, Competitive Advantage, and Jambalaya are extremely close. The rest are not even close, especially the Ultra Stars, Court Masters, and Cut Aboves.

[tristan20]

People manipulate the stock market, actually all markets, its not difficult to do.

Fact is it happens, and to say it doesn't is being ignorant.

When making high end purchases you just have to be weary and avoid the sudden trends.

When a $50 card suddenly turns to a $500 card, unless its a rookie or current player. It just doesn't happen overnight.

[tristan20]

1997/98 PRECIOUS METAL GEMS KOBE BRYANT BGS 8.5 VERY RARE! 85/100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-PRECIOUS-METAL-GEMS-KOBE-BRYANT-BGS-8-5-VERY-RARE-85-100-/261108020510?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3ccb40351e)

^Here's and Original PMG for auction.
I think it's already much more than the Average sales of Retro MJ Red + Lebron Red.

Yeah and it will be pulled before it ends. Pretty much how these sellers operate, these cards rarely see it through the end.

I do hope that they realize that they will have to pay the ebay fees even when they end their auctions early.

[pepsiporch]

1997/98 PRECIOUS METAL GEMS KOBE BRYANT BGS 8.5 VERY RARE! 85/100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-PRECIOUS-METAL-GEMS-KOBE-BRYANT-BGS-8-5-VERY-RARE-85-100-/261108020510?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3ccb40351e)

^Here's and Original PMG for auction.
I think it's already much more than the Average sales of Retro MJ Red + Lebron Red.

That is why when people say retro is selling as high as the originals leaves me shaking my head . I would take 10 lebron retro reds over one kobe original red

There are going to be about 20 blue MJs with no lines in it . Who knows with green 2 without 1 with so far . I would say half he red mjs have lines .

[chrismiller81]

Yeah and it will be pulled before it ends. Pretty much how these sellers operate, these cards rarely see it through the end.

I do hope that they realize that they will have to pay the ebay fees even when they end their auctions early.

I can't wait for some of these guys to get burned on these fee's!!

[SportsItUpCards]

Defensive much? Are you one of those guys who "invested" in cards back then for an arm and leg, and now trying to get your money back? :rolleyes:

Stop trying to confuse everything......... i'm not talking about the cards that were booking for $40 and now "selling" for $300 and so on. I think those are cases of smaller time shillers, who didn't get in on the serial numbered inserts, so they're trying their hand with the non serial numbered.

I'm talking about the serial numbered stuff that always booked so high, and the reason they booked so high was because ebay wasn't used as much as today. Sure ebay was up and running, as I stated, but for other things, not the sports card section. Sure I don't doubt there were sellers of cards. But how many buyers? How many people knew they could go on ebay and buy cards? Exactly.......

Back in the day it was all about the card show, card shows, and trading with friends, so don't try to come here and confuse otherwise. Ebay was very new, and used for other items, and probably a hand full of sports card sellers. I remember very well back in 2004 when I started to use ebay at all, for anything, let alone cards. They would have 5 to 15 lookers on auctions. Not like today you can have 1,000 people looking at a particular listing. I remember it like it was yesterday. And that was 2004!!!!!! Imagine back in 99-03 for SPORTS CARDS!!!! It was a ghost town, like YAHOO AUCTIONS............. :rolleyes: lol

And please stop with the 1,000 people want a card numbered to 100 SMH find me more than 20-30 people who want a Sam Perkins inserts.... lol Even the older stars! Collectors these days will mostly want the newer players, that's a FACT! You can not say otherwise. It's common sense, no? I anything, your analogy that you stole from me would be true with cards these days, as the NBA is bigger than ever, and more fans around the WORLD!!!! The NBA's marketing has never been better than today, and I think Panini knows this, thus numbering their PMG's to 150 instead of 100, because i'm sure that 20,000,000 people these days would want a card numbered to 150, so what's gonna happen to prices? Exactly!

Don't try to spread the bs. I've been in this hobby for way too long, and because you were on ebay in 99 doesn't earn you brownie points smh. Thanks

You are so ridiculous. I was on ebay in 99 and there was a lot of ebay trading going on back then. Not like today but there was already a huge ebay market. You are probably one of the suckers I use to trade with that would trade for a card because it had a BV of $100 but sold for only $20 while in return gave up a card that had a BV of $100 and actually sold for a $100. You talk about these guys overpaying for 90's cards? I remember the 90's market back then. These cards were selling for pennies on the dollar compared to today. You could buy an MJ Legacy for only $200-$300. Now they sell for $2000+++ Nobody was paying those inflated prices back then. So stop making up these stories about people manipulating the market because they overpaid and are trying to break even. Beckett has had all these cards priced extremely low for years so if anything they probably got even better prices then what was being paid on ebay if they actually bought the card in a card store and sat on it for 10 years.

You clearly don't know the laws of economics. If 1000 people want a card numbered to 100 then the people who are willing to spend the most are going to get the card. The sportscard game is simple. He who has the most money can get whatever cards they want. Those who don't have as much to spend only get what's left over.

[Prospect Rush]

Defensive much? Are you one of those guys who "invested" in cards back then for an arm and leg, and now trying to get your money back? :rolleyes:

Stop trying to confuse everything......... i'm not talking about the cards that were booking for $40 and now "selling" for $300 and so on. I think those are cases of smaller time shillers, who didn't get in on the serial numbered inserts, so they're trying their hand with the non serial numbered.

I'm talking about the serial numbered stuff that always booked so high, and the reason they booked so high was because ebay wasn't used as much as today. Sure ebay was up and running, as I stated, but for other things, not the sports card section. Sure I don't doubt there were sellers of cards. But how many buyers? How many people knew they could go on ebay and buy cards? Exactly.......

Back in the day it was all about the card show, card shows, and trading with friends, so don't try to come here and confuse otherwise. Ebay was very new, and used for other items, and probably a hand full of sports card sellers. I remember very well back in 2004 when I started to use ebay at all, for anything, let alone cards. They would have 5 to 15 lookers on auctions. Not like today you can have 1,000 people looking at a particular listing. I remember it like it was yesterday. And that was 2004!!!!!! Imagine back in 99-03 for SPORTS CARDS!!!! It was a ghost town, like YAHOO AUCTIONS............. :rolleyes: lol

And please stop with the 1,000 people want a card numbered to 100 SMH find me more than 20-30 people who want a Sam Perkins inserts.... lol Even the older stars! Collectors these days will mostly want the newer players, that's a FACT! You can not say otherwise. It's common sense, no? I anything, your analogy that you stole from me would be true with cards these days, as the NBA is bigger than ever, and more fans around the WORLD!!!! The NBA's marketing has never been better than today, and I think Panini knows this, thus numbering their PMG's to 150 instead of 100, because i'm sure that 20,000,000 people these days would want a card numbered to 150, so what's gonna happen to prices? Exactly!

Don't try to spread the bs. I've been in this hobby for way too long, and because you were on ebay in 99 doesn't earn you brownie points smh. Thanks

What are you thanking him for?

[cardsdownunder]

You are right. On ebay, cards are always going for record prices. We're going to start seeing six-figure sales on a regular basis soon.:)!

why stop there? i'm sure we'll soon see many six-figure sales each day. :rolleyes: lol you gotta love the hype.

[Orangejello727]

Going to hit a few points here.

Ebay, ending auctions early and paying fees? Wont happen. They will instead let the bidder win and cancel the transaction instead. This is a loophole to not paying fees. Just get a buddy to win the auction and then cancel it there after.


For the 90s insert price jump? For the extremely high end stuff, its really only been 3 or 4 guys going to war for them. These guys have been battling one another and topping each other out. It not like 50 different bidders bidding away. After a certain point its mainly 2 or 3 guys if that..probably 2 guys going to war topping one another out. This is what is setting crazy prices. IF you couple that with the bidder who throws in a crazy last second bid (i.e., auction sitting at $455 and throws in a last second bid for $4000 just to win it but has is competitor do the same the damn auction ends at like $4200) out of nowhere. Ive seen this happen a few times and know friends who have done it thinking a $4k bid will win it at like $500 but it doesnt. 2 guys bid a whack amount and boom a crazy price settles.

On the topic of high prices as well. In the late 90s and early 00s, the dot com boom happend. You had these nerdy guys cracking millions with start ups in the digital/tech field during that time. They in turn started to buy their childhood dream comics. I deal in high end comics not only did I witness it but I benefited from it as well. These 27 yrs old now with millions were chasing down high end CGC books and copies from the mile high collection. They were throwing money around like no ones business. My personal friend sold a CGC 9.8 signature series Hulk 181 for like $180k. A book that he picked up for $400 , got it signed and graded. Normally a book like that would bring down like $20 to $50k depending on whos around to fill. Soon after the dot com bubble burst, it all settled down and prices came falling down. No more bidding wars, no more young guys throwing cash around and prices set were hard to match. CGC high end took a break. Prices corrected themselves and now sit a tad higher than 00s days but not as high as they once were. Same thing is happening with 90s inserts. Its a cycle of new guys coming in with money and paying the top dollars.

It really comes down to research. All one has to do is trend the pricing and be vigilant on bidding. But deep pockets dont care. Time is money. Being the first is priority and having is "NOW" is first on the agenda. Get a few guys with this type of attitude, you have a perfect recipe to make bank!! This is the reason why cards that never appear, suddenly come up for sale. They see the whale and they spear it. Sure its gone from their PC, but in time itll come back down and another one will show up and they will pick it up. Hell, cash is king and time will bring another one.

The hobby is a mess. New guys, old guys, veterans and rookies. Manipulators and do gooders. Hard to see between the lines. The action is fast and sadly there are winners and losers. To each their own!

[thetruth23]

Wrong according to Rare Air : "JUN" he is in the process of smashing a new record $20k +??? , If you don't believe me here read.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/376925-big-mj-trade-exquisite-against-retro-what-do-you-think-about-8.html

He signed back up under a new alias thetruth23

So the market must still be strong .


The market has surely slowed down as sales have been lower than usual. But that's not just for 90's inserts but all across the board. The trend usually shows July-October being a slow time for Basketball cards but usually picks back up towards the end of the year.

Now that doesn't mean all cards are selling low right now. Some of the really rare Jordan/Kobes are still selling at record prices and higher than ever.

For example:

1999-00 SPx Winning Material AUTO MJ sold at a record past $4k recently.

1999/00 SPx MICHAEL JORDAN JERSEY/SHOE/AUTO 5/23 WINNING MATERIALS | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/380476445212)

1996-97 Flair Legacy Row 0 Jordan sold $3,150.

Michael Jordan 1996-97 Flair Showcase Legacy Collection Row 0 /150 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/320990209603)

The Kobe PMG Red BGS 8.5 is already past $4,650 with more than 5 days left to go.

1997/98 PRECIOUS METAL GEMS KOBE BRYANT BGS 8.5 VERY RARE! 85/100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261108020510)



And yes, I already received a deposit for my Gold Embossed Refractor BGS 9.5 which will be sold near $20k soon. So there goes another record price.


Also, another RECORD PRICE for the Original 1997-98 Metal Universe PRECIOUS METAL GEMS Michael Jordan that was listed then immediately sold last night off eBay within hours.

1997-98 Metal Universe #23 MICHAEL JORDAN Precious Metal Gems 32/100 Rare | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/130777654722)

A very sharp and mint Original PMG Red Jordan with barely any chipping. This card sold well and deep into 5 figures last night higher than any PMG Jordan that sold on eBay so far.

[forgiven1]

Blah Blah Blah...Please just post another pic of your half naked girlfriend again...:)!...Thanks...

[phdbeckett]

Going to hit a few points here.

Ebay, ending auctions early and paying fees? Wont happen. They will instead let the bidder win and cancel the transaction instead. This is a loophole to not paying fees. Just get a buddy to win the auction and then cancel it there after.


For the 90s insert price jump? For the extremely high end stuff, its really only been 3 or 4 guys going to war for them. These guys have been battling one another and topping each other out. It not like 50 different bidders bidding away. After a certain point its mainly 2 or 3 guys if that..probably 2 guys going to war topping one another out. This is what is setting crazy prices. IF you couple that with the bidder who throws in a crazy last second bid (i.e., auction sitting at $455 and throws in a last second bid for $4000 just to win it but has is competitor do the same the damn auction ends at like $4200) out of nowhere. Ive seen this happen a few times and know friends who have done it thinking a $4k bid will win it at like $500 but it doesnt. 2 guys bid a whack amount and boom a crazy price settles.

On the topic of high prices as well. In the late 90s and early 00s, the dot com boom happend. You had these nerdy guys cracking millions with start ups in the digital/tech field during that time. They in turn started to buy their childhood dream comics. I deal in high end comics not only did I witness it but I benefited from it as well. These 27 yrs old now with millions were chasing down high end CGC books and copies from the mile high collection. They were throwing money around like no ones business. My personal friend sold a CGC 9.8 signature series Hulk 181 for like $180k. A book that he picked up for $400 , got it signed and graded. Normally a book like that would bring down like $20 to $50k depending on whos around to fill. Soon after the dot com bubble burst, it all settled down and prices came falling down. No more bidding wars, no more young guys throwing cash around and prices set were hard to match. CGC high end took a break. Prices corrected themselves and now sit a tad higher than 00s days but not as high as they once were. Same thing is happening with 90s inserts. Its a cycle of new guys coming in with money and paying the top dollars.

It really comes down to research. All one has to do is trend the pricing and be vigilant on bidding. But deep pockets dont care. Time is money. Being the first is priority and having is "NOW" is first on the agenda. Get a few guys with this type of attitude, you have a perfect recipe to make bank!! This is the reason why cards that never appear, suddenly come up for sale. They see the whale and they spear it. Sure its gone from their PC, but in time itll come back down and another one will show up and they will pick it up. Hell, cash is king and time will bring another one.

The hobby is a mess. New guys, old guys, veterans and rookies. Manipulators and do gooders. Hard to see between the lines. The action is fast and sadly there are winners and losers. To each their own!

And the same dot-commers liked Vince Carter too.

Remember when this VC card /1500 was a $1200.00 sale on Ebay?
http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af49/phdbeckett2/2012/OCT/BK1/422.jpg

[thetruth23]

Blah Blah Blah...Please just post another pic of your half naked girlfriend again...:)!...Thanks...

Dude shut up you jealous man. Go post pictures of your ugly one instead. That's even if you HAVE a woman.

I'm contributing to the thread and bringing in speculation. You don't need to throw out jabs out of nowhere because you have issues. Let it go. I have.

[Orangejello727]

And the same dot-commers liked Vince Carter too.

Remember when this VC card /1500 was a $1200.00 sale on Ebay?
http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af49/phdbeckett2/2012/OCT/BK1/422.jpg

I actually owned/sold the 15/25 Version! My claim to fame!

[nissandriver77]

Dude shut up you jealous man. Go post pictures of your ugly one instead. That's even if you HAVE a woman.

I'm contributing to the thread and bringing in speculation. You don't need to throw out jabs out of nowhere because you have issues.

No offense to you dude But you are banned are you not ? You re entered under this alias !

You should not even be here but again you have shown what lengths you will go to .

I don't know dude you just keep stuffing up don't you !

You have admitted you re-enter sites you are banned from with fake details is that not even more shady ?

I don't know dude you just cease to amaze me .

I try to forget about you but you are like a fly buzzing around waiting to get swatted.

Here is what I see :-

1) Over 50 bid retractions in a year .
2) Luckiest man on earth to find 7 of the most rare coveted MJ card's in history for you to flip in twelve months .
3) Early high amount bidding in auctions .
Here look at this current Kobe Auction
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=261108020510
There you are nice and snug bidding up from $2300 - $3500 with over 6 day's to go , Your feedback is 595 bidder .
4) Re-entering sites under a fake alias when you have been banned .

Dude can you not see why people believe you are so full of kaka it's not funny regardless of the dribble you spew .

Not to mention you say you made truces , lets get real you made threats of legal action did you think i did not know , you are a something Jun , but i eat nerds like you for breakfast.

Starting to get sick of this crap to be honest , you have made others argue with each other becasue they believe you are legit but more and more you actual flaunt it is very hard to believe you there are to many coincidences that's when you know you are full of it.

A murderer swears on his life, god,anything he never did it but guess what he did .

And i'll throw in a GOD BLESS.

[thetruth23]

No offense to you dude But you are banned are you not ? You re entered under this alias !

You should not even be here but again you have shown what lengths you will go to .

I don't know dude you just keep stuffing up don't you !

You have admitted you re-enter sites you are banned from with fake details is that not even more shady ?

I don't know dude you just cease to amaze me .

I try to forget about you but you are like a fly buzzing around waiting to get swatted.

Here is what I see :-

1) Over 50 bid retractions in a year .
2) Luckiest man on earth to find 7 of the most rare coveted MJ card's in history for you to flip in twelve months .
3) Early high amount bidding in auctions .
Here look at this current Kobe Auction
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=261108020510
There you are nice and snug bidding up from $2300 - $3500 with over 6 day's to go .
4) Re-entering sites under a fake alias when you have been banned .

Dude can you not see why people believe you are so full of kaka it's not funny regardless of the dribble you spew .

Not to mention you say you made truces , lets get real you made threats of legal action did you think i did not know , you are a something Jun , but i eat nerds like you for breakfast.

Starting to get sick of this crap to be honest , you have made others argue with each other becasue they believe you are legit but more and more you actual flaunt it is very hard to believe you there are to many coincidences that's when you know you are full of it.

A murderer swears on his life, god,anything he never did it but guess what he did .

And i'll throw in a GOD BLESS.



Good God. You're destroying a perfectly fine thread yet AGAIN. Dude you're SOO bitter. Your life must suck because you always come off sounding miserable. I'll pray for you.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/3422511-post183.html

That post explains EVERYTHING in detail about your FALSE accusations again. That post is the reason why I rejoined so I can clear up the misconception. Quit using the same thing OVER and OVER while ignoring what I have been saying. You ALWAYS ignore the truth and hold onto your same old tactics. Bring in some solid proof ok? There's nothing wrong with me bidding on that Kobe PMG at $3.5k when it's already past $4.6k and climbing. That card has been selling for $5k-$6k ungraded. How does me placing a $3.5k bid have ANYTHING to do with being shady you nut case? This PROVES you try to use ANYTHING you can to twist it negatively about me. Just STOP. Your sorry bid retraction argument has been beaten to death and I've explained it WITH proof over and over. Yet you ignore it everytime.

The lengths I will go to? Come on man. The same 3-5 guys have been constantly badmouthing my name and bringing my name up more often than not on this board no? Is it really that far fetched to have finally signed back onto this forum just to make a clear point about a misconception? Just like how you felt on HK recently when you and some of those guys went at it. Imagine if they kept badmouthing you and everything you do constantly whether you're there or not. You'd be irked as hell too.

Yes I was banned but for name calling. The mods can still kick me out if they wanted to and I don't mind if they do because I expected it coming in here. But as long as I can sincerely contribute to a valid thread, I don't mind doing so. There are no needs for personal attacks.

And I admitted re-entering THIS site obviously because I wanted to clear the misconception being thrown around about me. Completely wrong and none of you guys have YET to prove your own case about me with your false accusations. I also admitted about OZ because of a FLAME war I got into with the same person. I guess you guys all are lucky because you've gotten into PLENTY of flame wars yet you are all here. Great job.


Everything is fine except for your hate. Look at you. The first thing you did was recall my name and say something sarcastic about it. You always start something when the water is already calm. Admit it, you just don't like me because in the past I called you out. Even if God Himself came to you and showed you that I hadn't done anything shady... you'd close your eyes and continue to badmouth me and hate. Simple truth. Funny because did I not send you a genuine message on HK a few days ago? I put my pride down, stretched out the olive branch and genuinely explained to you that you have it WRONG and that I am willing to show you everything you need to see? Yet no response. Ignoring and continue to attack me even when I'm not there. Boy what a grudge.

[nissandriver77]

Dude shut up you jealous man. Go post pictures of your ugly one instead. That's even if you HAVE a woman.

I'm contributing to the thread and bringing in speculation. You don't need to throw out jabs out of nowhere because you have issues. Let it go. I have.

Is this calm water is it?

I don't need you to pray for me.

Do you want to know something ? Nearly all the guy's that scam refer to god how ironic.

Regardless what you have been banned for you are banned that means you are no longer able to participate , see how you twist it to validate why you are here .

There is no validation to why you are here you are banned Period!!!

[thetruth23]

Is this calm water is it?

I don't need you to pray for me.

Do you want to know something ? Nearly all the guy's that scam refer to god how ironic.


Whatever man. You have issues. You can claim I'm a murderer, the devil, scammer, whatever. Those are all wrong. You just don't like me and it doesn't matter what I say obviously.

The truth should prevail and more people are seeing it. Maybe there's a reason why people who I've never met or interacted with have backed me up on this site and have gotten into arguments with you and others who have had false and strong accusations about me in the past. Just food for thought.

Anyways, have an awesome day. Hope you feel better/happy. Life is too short not to be.

[cardsdownunder]

Blah Blah Blah...Please just post another pic of your half naked girlfriend again...:)!...Thanks...

lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nissandriver77]

Whatever man. You have issues. You can claim I'm a murderer, the devil, scammer, whatever. Those are all wrong. You just don't like me and it doesn't matter what I say obviously.

The truth should prevail and more people are seeing it. Maybe there's a reason why people who I've never met or interacted with have backed me up on this site and have gotten into arguments with you and others who have had false and strong accusations about me in the past. Just food for thought.

Anyways, have an awesome day. Hope you feel better/happy. Life is too short not to be.

Don't worry Jun my life is great .:)!

I don't have to make fake aliases to get back onto sites i am banned from.

[AllStars2324]

1997/98 PRECIOUS METAL GEMS KOBE BRYANT BGS 8.5 VERY RARE! 85/100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-PRECIOUS-METAL-GEMS-KOBE-BRYANT-BGS-8-5-VERY-RARE-85-100-/261108020510?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3ccb40351e)

^Here's and Original PMG for auction.
I think it's already much more than the Average sales of Retro MJ Red + Lebron Red.


Yeah exactly. I have seen the Retro prices start to dip and I think the Retro hype is only going to help push up the prices of the originals. This card is gonna get a lot! I know most collectors would of course want the originals.

[Clipperfan3]

Defensive much? Are you one of those guys who "invested" in cards back then for an arm and leg, and now trying to get your money back? :rolleyes:

Stop trying to confuse everything......... i'm not talking about the cards that were booking for $40 and now "selling" for $300 and so on. I think those are cases of smaller time shillers, who didn't get in on the serial numbered inserts, so they're trying their hand with the non serial numbered.

I'm talking about the serial numbered stuff that always booked so high, and the reason they booked so high was because ebay wasn't used as much as today. Sure ebay was up and running, as I stated, but for other things, not the sports card section. Sure I don't doubt there were sellers of cards. But how many buyers? How many people knew they could go on ebay and buy cards? Exactly.......

Back in the day it was all about the card show, card shows, and trading with friends, so don't try to come here and confuse otherwise. Ebay was very new, and used for other items, and probably a hand full of sports card sellers. I remember very well back in 2004 when I started to use ebay at all, for anything, let alone cards. They would have 5 to 15 lookers on auctions. Not like today you can have 1,000 people looking at a particular listing. I remember it like it was yesterday. And that was 2004!!!!!! Imagine back in 99-03 for SPORTS CARDS!!!! It was a ghost town, like YAHOO AUCTIONS............. :rolleyes: lol

And please stop with the 1,000 people want a card numbered to 100 SMH find me more than 20-30 people who want a Sam Perkins inserts.... lol Even the older stars! Collectors these days will mostly want the newer players, that's a FACT! You can not say otherwise. It's common sense, no? I anything, your analogy that you stole from me would be true with cards these days, as the NBA is bigger than ever, and more fans around the WORLD!!!! The NBA's marketing has never been better than today, and I think Panini knows this, thus numbering their PMG's to 150 instead of 100, because i'm sure that 20,000,000 people these days would want a card numbered to 150, so what's gonna happen to prices? Exactly!

Don't try to spread the bs. I've been in this hobby for way too long, and because you were on ebay in 99 doesn't earn you brownie points smh. Thanks

You are so full of crap. Ebay started in 1995 which means that when you finally discovered it in 2004, it had been around for 9 years. You really think it took over 9 years for people to realize that they could sell there cards on ebay? You were really late to the party. Like I said the ebay market for cards in 99 when I first got in was really good. It wasn't like today but it was still really good. Vince Carter was all the rage, and if had you anything of VC and put it on ebay it was like putting up a 90's MJ card today.

No, I don't have any of the big inserts like the PMG's of MJ or rubies or anything like that. I wish I did. I always wanted those cards when I was coming up but they were too expensive then and they are too expensive now.

Secondly those types of cards weren't just sitting in card shops collecting dust. A lot of them were already in collections.

People only want the new cards? Generally speaking, yes. But Panini vs the old technology which is superior... it's pretty obvious what is selling better then the other. There's a reason that every time a new beckett comes out that the 1-2 spot on the hot list every month is 90's Michael Jordan inserts. And beckett is usually way off and way behind. Also, this is just another one of your many contradictions. You said earlier "why would people want players from the 90's." They want Retro! Retro is full of players who haven't played in the NBA for decades with the exception to a handful of players who are current. So what is it? Do people want the old stuff or the new stuff?

And yes, MJ's numbered to 50 or 100 have way more then the print run chasing them. I never once mentioned Sam Perkins so stop putting words in my mouth.

You are just butt-hurt because you missed out on the 90's train and now probably will never to be able to afford them. That's why you are loving on this retro stuff because you claim to have gotten in early. Guess what? I got in it too but when it looks like crap and smells like crap it doesn't make it anything but crap. It's like throwing lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

I have sold some pretty high-end cards of MJ and Kobe on ebay. $1000-$1500 range and with both players I get numerous emails from people all over the world asking me what price I will take. Clearly, there is demand for this stuff.

Just a little advice, you might want to quit shaking your head because it might fall off your neck.

[murrke03]

Do we need to report him so the Mods are notified that he is back and should be banned?

[SportsItUpCards]

You are so full of crap.

Too much which I don't care to read..... botton line is, doesn't matter if you had big card sellers/store owners/dealers/whatever....... fact is, a tiny amount of people were buying cards, or even knew ebay was a good place to buy cards. Period. Do you think that everybody bought a computer back then when they cost a gazzilion dollars? No. Heck, many people who collect cards today still haven't gotten on ebay! :rolleyes: So you can go all day with the bs... As I told you earlier, the "view count" at the bottom on auctions back in 04 and years following... had counts of 5 to 15 as a norm, I remember this VERY well. I remember when it started to hit in the 50's count(probably around 2007 or so), and today certain auctions can get 100's and 1,000's!!!

Cards booked for so much back then because it was rare to find one. But today, with ebay being how it is, cards have sold in the past for pennies on the dollar compared to those early prices. I only started to see changes when certain people stocked up and started bidding on each others cards, between friends. Simple as that. Some in that group might be the ones who paid A LOT back in the day when they were rare to find, so..........

Anything else would you like to blabber?

[Clipperfan3]

wow, just wow... of course you wouldn't read what I had to say because you know I am right and am going to make you look stupid.

Seriously, are you 14 years old?

Do you not realize that the 1990's was the most prosperous time ever in American History. There was more money floating around this country then ever before as a result of the internet. Computers could be had at affordable prices and more people had money back then they do now. Everyone has a computer now even though no one seems to have money now. I think I am going to shake my head now at the statement.

Computers was overly expensive in the 70s-80's. Not at the turn of the century.

[Kodiak10]

I'm going to chime in and state that eBay was known by card shops in 1998. To say eBay wasn't relevant until 2004 is a clown statement bro. Card shop were getting many bids by people when flair, ex, autographics, longevity in football etc... Was it bigger every year after, yes. We're the big boys(buyers and sellers) in before 2000. Yes. Did Card Shows locally go in the toilet in about the year 2000. Yuuuup.

[matfanofold]

I think it is safe to say that eBay was not a driving force in the hobby till the early 00's however as mentioned above, eBay was indeed being used as a relevant source well before hand.

[tristan20]

1997/98 PRECIOUS METAL GEMS KOBE BRYANT BGS 8.5 VERY RARE! 85/100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-PRECIOUS-METAL-GEMS-KOBE-BRYANT-BGS-8-5-VERY-RARE-85-100-/261108020510?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3ccb40351e)

^Here's and Original PMG for auction.
I think it's already much more than the Average sales of Retro MJ Red + Lebron Red.

Right on cue

[Clipperfan3]

He didn't sell the card... I know this seller. He wanted to gauge the value and doesn't want to sell. I asked if he was going to sell and told him about the new ebay rules and he pulled it unwillingly.

[Orangejello727]

wow, just wow... of course you wouldn't read what I had to say because you know I am right and am going to make you look stupid.

Seriously, are you 14 years old?

Do you not realize that the 1990's was the most prosperous time ever in American History. There was more money floating around this country then ever before as a result of the internet. Computers could be had at affordable prices and more people had money back then they do now. Everyone has a computer now even though no one seems to have money now. I think I am going to shake my head now at the statement.

Computers was overly expensive in the 70s-80's. Not at the turn of the century.

Just want to note that the early 90s was actually in recession. Late 90s into the dot com boom were good times!!

[Clipperfan3]

They definitely were good times... Everybody was blowing money on stupid crap.

Now people blow money on stupid crap except everyone is using there credit card now.

[ninjacookies]

Every market has cycles and ceilings. EVERY MARKET. That includes rare, antique paintings, and rare classic collectible cars.

To think the 90's or even exquisite basketball market is somehow immune to the simple fundamental laws of economics is absurd. The higher the prices of items become, the less people become eligible to purchase them. And once the 'true collectors' who don't sell these elite high end cards put them away into the pc, that just further limits the potential buyer base.

Anyone buying these inserts are high prices and thinking they're guaranteed to make a killing in a few years is probably better off investing in real estate and praying for market bubbles to disappear.

[clipperboy24]

People manipulate the stock market, actually all markets, its not difficult to do.

Fact is it happens, and to say it doesn't is being ignorant.

When making high end purchases you just have to be weary and avoid the sudden trends.

When a $50 card suddenly turns to a $500 card, unless its a rookie or current player. It just doesn't happen overnight.

yep, the lower the amount of money involved the easier it is to manipulate. Unlike some people think, liquidity is very low on sports cards which means easy manipulation.

[tristan20]

He didn't sell the card... I know this seller. He wanted to gauge the value and doesn't want to sell. I asked if he was going to sell and told him about the new ebay rules and he pulled it unwillingly.

How can you gauge the value when you pull the auction before it ends and had no intention of selling it?

What a load of crap

If someone really wants to gauge value, they would set a buy it now and accept offers.

[Clipperfan3]

I can't speak for him... It wasn't my auction. He thought the card was worth $7K and wanted to see how close it got to that number. He says he far more interest then he ever could of imagined.

[tristan20]

I can't speak for him... It wasn't my auction. He thought the card was worth $7K and wanted to see how close it got to that number. He says he far more interest then he ever could of imagined.

Tell him a bid doesn't mean a sale :)!

[hairyangryfella]

Good God. You're destroying a perfectly fine thread yet AGAIN. Dude you're SOO bitter. Your life must suck because you always come off sounding miserable. I'll pray for you.

I thought that if you were BANNED then you weren't allowed on the forum... guess I'm wrong. If you're BANNED from a forum why even look back at it? Move on dude, just move on.

[chrismiller81]

Right on cue

That didn't take long!.. LOL

[pzeniewicz]

Sportsitupcards is one of the most ill-informed and ignorant members on this forum. He brings absolutely nothing meaningful to the table. He consistently makes invalid and incorrect assertions that have absolutely no basis in truth or reality. Just go away buddy. Nobody cares about your opinion. Moreover, all of us who were around in the 90s know that everything that you say is BS.

And please please please, get off Panini's sack. You're worse than Tracy Hackler.

[cardsdownunder]

Do we need to report him so the Mods are notified that he is back and should be banned?

whats the point mate? he'll just keep coming back with more userids.

[dmogull]

the 90's stuff may be stagnant or dipping a bit, because of the sudden retro boom...when the dust settles the retro cards will be selling at a fraction of the original 90's stuff

[pepsiporch]

the 90's stuff may be stagnant or dipping a bit, because of the sudden retro boom...when the dust settles the retro cards will be selling at a fraction of the original 90's stuff

It always has been selling at a fraction of original 90s stuff

[dmogull]

It always has been selling at a fraction of original 90s stuff

ok at a smaller fraction...mj greeens will not be selling at $20k+...that is just absurd