My cards that were taken...please help

[Fraser9698]

Guys, this is my attempt to recover some of the cards that were taken, please keep this civil :). I know the INKscriptions were given to another member here, just cant remember who and the Wall is currently on Ebay(messaged the seller). I think he took a lot of the stuff and gave it away. If you know who has them or have been given any of these cards that were taken from me in this mess, I would really like them back. Most of these cards were strictly PC other than to trade up for a certain few cards. If you look at my bucket now, I have 0 Lebrons so he got literally all of them. Please PM me with any information...I will pay for a return fee. Lebron ROY is in a BGA 9 and Durant chrono is in a 8.5 case.

***if by some rare instance I actually do recover some of these, and I get my card I was promised in trade, I will send them back to the rightful owners.***

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/lebronnaismithinkscription.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/SCAN00152.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/durantspa2.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/durantspa1.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/CCF03222012_00000.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/lebronnbaASink.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/lebronlimitedlogo.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/lebronkingjamesinbscription.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/lebronjamesinkscriptions.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/lebronchronology.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/durantchrono.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k505/fraser9698/Haiku%20Losses/CCF11012012_00001.jpg


Thank you to anyone who helps me. I'm pretty shellshocked right now at all of this...can't believe someone could steal my cards that I worked my ass of to pay for. Just very flustered and confused right now.

[Orangejello727]

You should go through the police to make all this official.

What happens if a person has one of these cards and paid money for it? WHat happens to their loss?

[sportscardbreak]

Holy crap dude. That blows. I'll keep an eye out. Good luck on your journey.

[hche]

You should go through the police to make all this official.

What happens if a person has one of these cards and paid money for it? WHat happens to their loss?

Well, if the owner's card was stolen, then was sold to someone else. In reality, the new owner now has a stolen property (even he has no knowledge of it). By law, the new owner needs to return the stolen property to the rightful owner. The new owner needs to go after the theif for his/her loss.

[JOHNJOHNNY]

Was this stolen stolen or haiku stolen?

[cobbcollector]

how were these "STOLEN" ?

[Orangejello727]

Well, if the owner's card was stolen, then was sold to someone else. In reality, the new owner now has a stolen property (even he has no knowledge of it). By law, the new owner needs to return the stolen property to the rightful owner. The new owner needs to go after the theif for his/her loss.

Thats call intimidation and misinformation. I urge you to go to the Police and find out more information on this. Thats not how it works.

Let the courts and police handle it. If the owner of these cards bought them no knowing they were stolen, he pleads negligent. The police will track down the point of theft. The owner of these cards will be filed into a report and once solved and resolved in court will either be told to keep it, give it back once they find out the point of theft, thereafter giving him access to sue for the loss.

This is why im urging him to do go to the Police and file a claim. That way no one here is misled into thinking they are going to jail for owning stolen property all because someone on the internet said so.

Here are the links I provided earlier.


What is Receiving Stolen Property? (http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/crime_property.htm)

Keep in mind, the keyword here is "Knowingly buys stolen goods"

"Receiving stolen goods is generally buying or acquiring the possession of property knowing (or believing in some jurisdictions) that it had been obtained through theft, embezzlement, larceny, or extortion by someone else. The crime is separate from the crime of stealing the property. To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief. Paying for the goods or intending to collect the reward for returning them are not defenses. Depending on the value of the property received, receiving-stolen-property is either a misdemeanor or a felony.

[lakernation10]

Fail attempt of a thread . Jk



Edit: Are these really stolen? Thought u were just mocking the Haiku buzzz, but by ur comments it sounds like u did lose these cards. best of luck to you

[Sikkcaden]

Broncomanning18 got the wall if I remember correctly. That's an absolute shame. One LeBron inscription went in a 700+ mystery lot because he was trying to get me to buy it.

The Lebron/MJ was purchased by saketm92. Not sure he got it though.

[Orangejello727]

What did Haiku promise you back in return for these cards?

And why would you have sent out first to him? Especially a lot of this size?

[BLawson87]

This is why I don't trade anything worth more than about $20 on here.. You are literally at the mercy of some random guy to really send what you traded for, otherwise he robs you of your $500 card.. Good luck man I feel bad for you it sucks you lost all those. Hopefully you can get them back or the police can solve it.

[Sikkcaden]

98% sure saketm got the 8.5 durant and Lebron chrono as well. Not sure if he RECIEVED them, because Haiku stiffed him about $5k

[Orangejello727]

People are expecting their cards back from this ordeal for free. I wonder if they also ready to pay others back for the money they lost through paypal? It would on be fair.

Why would those who did deals and lost out get free cards back while someone shorted $5k in a deal have to eat his losses?

[Sikkcaden]

People are expecting their cards back from this ordeal for free. I wonder if they also ready to pay others back for the money they lost through paypal? It would on be fair.

Why would those who did deals and lost out get free cards back while someone shorted $5k in a deal have to eat his losses?

I have confidence the PayPal deals will get sorted out. I got refunded already.

[Orangejello727]

I have confidence the PayPal deals will get sorted out. I got refunded already.

Thats the scary part. Paypal will refund these guys and they will get their cards back for free as well. Talk about win win. You get back $10k in cards, and $10k in paypal as well. Good day for some!!

For example: Member has 2 of these cards. He is expected to send back the cards and take the loss? What about his loss? Anyone going to reimburse him the money he is out?

[Fraser9698]

Was this stolen stolen or haiku stolen?

It's the Haiku situation, I figured everyone would assume that since it's been such a hot topic lately.

[hche]

Thats call intimidation and misinformation. I urge you to go to the Police and find out more information on this. Thats not how it works.

Let the courts and police handle it. If the owner of these cards bought them no knowing they were stolen, he pleads negligent. The police will track down the point of theft. The owner of these cards will be filed into a report and once solved and resolved in court will either be told to keep it, give it back once they find out the point of theft, thereafter giving him access to sue for the loss.

This is why im urging him to do go to the Police and file a claim. That way no one here is misled into thinking they are going to jail for owning stolen property all because someone on the internet said so.

Here are the links I provided earlier.


What is Receiving Stolen Property? (http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/crime_property.htm)

Keep in mind, the keyword here is "Knowingly buys stolen goods"

I didn't say the new owner will be crminally charged (that's what your link is referring to). I was just saying he probably will need to return the property if the original owner still wants it. The most likely scenario is just like what you said, police will take possesstion, goes to court, and court will decide what to do with the property.

[sblez]

I am so sorry for this. These are some great cards and I hope you some how get these cards back.

[Fraser9698]

People are expecting their cards back from this ordeal for free. I wonder if they also ready to pay others back for the money they lost through paypal? It would on be fair.

Why would those who did deals and lost out get free cards back while someone shorted $5k in a deal have to eat his losses?

You need to understand the situation before you start talking about it. These cards were not sold they were sent in a trade, so there is no PayPal to have my back. Nowhere in my original post did I say I wanted the cards back from someone who paid for them, it was directed at those who had been given them(which I know he did with a bunch of stuff that he stole).

[dasiegel]

i am so confused, how were these stolen, did you send to a guy in a trade or for cash? if its through paypal you are protected and if its something where you send that kind of value to someone you didn't know... oof.

[Fraser9698]

What did Haiku promise you back in return for these cards?

And why would you have sent out first to him? Especially a lot of this size?

It was the Lebron that he had in his avatar forever. He had higher itrader than me so I send first. I was going to send these cards, then when he got the Lebron back from Beckett he was going to send that to me, then I was to make the final payment on the amount we agreed upon.

[Fraser9698]

i am so confused, how were these stolen, did you send to a guy in a trade or for cash? if its through paypal you are protected and if its something where you send that kind of value to someone you didn't know... oof.

It was a trade, and I had multiple phone conversation with him before sending anything as I do before any high end trade.

Once again...this is a thread for me trying to get my cards that were given away back. It was not intended to start arguments about trading practices. Thank you.

[Orangejello727]

You need to understand the situation before you start talking about it. These cards were not sold they were sent in a trade, so there is no PayPal to have my back. Nowhere in my original post did I say I wanted the cards back from someone who paid for them, it was directed at those who had been given them(which I know he did with a bunch of stuff that he stole).

I understand the situation. My issue isnt with you. Issue is with people sending idle threats of prison time for not sending cards back that they paid for and didnt know about them being stolen.

Again, maybe you need to file with the Police? Have you done this yet? This way you can document everything given back and if anything is sent, that you know what to do with it.

And since we are trying to get things back. You know any way of me getting back $7k that I was scammed out of a couple of years ago?

You make the mistake and the rest of us have to pay for it?

[blastman]

where's the back story on this situation? i'm not sure what's going on here.

[thecomebacker]

What did Haiku promise you back in return for these cards?

And why would you have sent out first to him? Especially a lot of this size?

Yea, agreeing with OJ here. WTF did Haiku promised to send you in return for all those super high-end cards in your PC? Thats like 50% of you PC!!! Thats Crazy!

Also, can you explain this thread where you responded to a Haiku KD giveaway thread before Haiku even posted the card and the pic??? (at the best case scenerio, I think he gave you a "head-ups" on some of these "quick sale/ giveaways to earn your trust......and at worst....who knows.). Please note, I am not accusing you one way or the other....but I think you have some explaining to do before members help get your cards back for you.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/football/416019-lolwut-things-actual-evidence-dont-make-sense-about-situation-2.html

[Orangejello727]

Yea, agreeing with OJ here. WTF did Haiku promised to send you in return for all those super high-end cards in your PC? Thats like 50% of you PC!!! Thats Crazy!

Also, can you explain this thread where you responded to a Haiku KD giveaway thread before Haiku even posted the card and the pic??? (at the best case scenerio, I think he gave you a "head-ups" on some of these "quick sale/ giveaways to earn your trust......and at worst....who knows.). Please note, I am not accusing you one way or the other....but I think you have some explaining to do before members help get your cards back for you.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/football/416019-lolwut-things-actual-evidence-dont-make-sense-about-situation-2.html

He probably got a deal of a life time for some crazy high end cards and quickly did the trade and sent his half out without even thinking twice. He fell for the scam. Its unfortunate, and I have no sympathy. But now everyone else is forced to eat their losses because of his mistake.

If I had asked you to send me those cards would you have done so? No way in hell. So why did you send them to Haiku? Without even getting anything in return or protecting yourself? What happend to make you so naive in doing this?

[saketm92]

I have confidence the PayPal deals will get sorted out. I got refunded already.

Pm'ed you....

[lakernation10]

i would be so mad even if I lost just one of those cards., good luck man. hope haiku gets hit with karma big time

[Fraser9698]

I understand the situation. My issue isnt with you. Issue is with people sending idle threats of prison time for not sending cards back that they paid for and didnt know about them being stolen.

Again, maybe you need to file with the Police? Have you done this yet? This way you can document everything given back and if anything is sent, that you know what to do with it.

And since we are trying to get things back. You know any way of me getting back $7k that I was scammed out of a couple of years ago?

You make the mistake and the rest of us have to pay for it?

Sorry I guess I misunderstood ya I thought you were attacking me.

I don't want anyone in jail, they didn't know the cards were stolen. How am I making anyone else have to pay for it? I just started a thread that was a shot in the dark thinking someone may have been given these cards, in which case I would like them back(and will of course send some money to anyone honest enough to return them). Not to mention it may help us figure out who the hell this guy really is.

Also, as I said in that other thread if anyone knows if the Durant Sport Kings was stolen and whoever the owner was, I would like to return it(despite the fact that I paid for it).

Thank you

[Fraser9698]

He probably got a deal of a life time for some crazy high end cards and quickly did the trade and sent his half out without even thinking twice. He fell for the scam. Its unfortunate, and I have no sympathy. But now everyone else is forced to eat their losses because of his mistake.

If I had asked you to send me those cards would you have done so? No way in hell. So why did you send them to Haiku? Without even getting anything in return or protecting yourself? What happend to make you so naive in doing this?

It was not a deal of a lifetime, it was actually a fair deal on both sides. Deal of a lifetime would've been too obvious. Yes, I would send cards like that to any well respected member here if we had agreed on a deal and they had higher itrader than me. That's how trades work.

Please leave this thread OJ, you are doing nothing except starting trouble and that's exactly what I was trying to avoid here.

[Fraser9698]

Hindsight is always 20/20....

[Sikkcaden]

Pm'ed you....

Didn't get anything fam, might be an error. Send again.

[saketm92]

Didn't get anything fam, might be an error. Send again.

Sorry I meant I pm'ed Fraser.

[patchgenie]

i'll look out for the lebron exquisite on ebay for you. i'll let you know if i come across it. i'd bet he'd sell it at a card show if he is as smart as he is.

[PackAttack419]

im curious as to what the cards were from haiku's side that he promised you. b/c it looks like you were giving up a HUUUUUGE amount

best of luck to you and all those involved in the haiku fiasco

[Orangejello727]

It was not a deal of a lifetime, it was actually a fair deal on both sides. Deal of a lifetime would've been too obvious. Yes, I would send cards like that to any well respected member here if we had agreed on a deal and they had higher itrader than me. That's how trades work.

Please leave this thread OJ, you are doing nothing except starting trouble and that's exactly what I was trying to avoid here.

You should post this in the feedback section as that is where it belongs along with all the other people that got scammed.

THere was a thread made on how to go about recovery.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/member-sales-trade-feedback/415804-instead-crying-heres-your-link-file-complaint-already.html

THere is the right way do to it. Im out of this thread.

[Fraser9698]

Thanks for those that have helped. Located a few of them but it seems they were all paid for, it was worth a shot :(

[Fraser9698]

You should post this in the feedback section as that is where it belongs along with all the other people that got scammed.

THere was a thread made on how to go about recovery.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/member-sales-trade-feedback/415804-instead-crying-heres-your-link-file-complaint-already.html

THere is the right way do to it. Im out of this thread.

Thank you for the link, the reason I posted it here was to see if anyone could locate the cards on the slight chance that they were given away. Not to complain or whine about having them stolen. Waiting on calls back from local law enforcement, hopefully they can help.

[MetDude]

I understand the situation. My issue isnt with you. Issue is with people sending idle threats of prison

That way no one here is misled into thinking they are going to jail for owning stolen property all because someone on the internet said so.



You do realize that you and you alone are the only person in this thread to mention jailtime or going to prison.

I dig how you simply make stuff up

Why would those who did deals and lost out get free cards back while someone shorted $5k in a deal have to eat his losses?

once again you simply make stuff up.

Maybe if you took a moment to actually READ before you reply youd understand. The OP is asking for people who received (his) cards as a GIFT from Haiku that he had traded to Haiku while getting nothing in return, to consider returning them. I think most people who received one of these "stolen cards" for free will at least think about it.


good luck Fraser

[blastman]

why the hell did this guy steal cards then give them away for free?

it's like a shitty robin hood

[bdoody42]

why the hell did this guy steal cards then give them away for free?

it's like a shitty robin hood

Not all were given away.

[murrke03]

was haiku only a member here? or was he on other forums as well?

wonder if other forums should be on the look out although i doubt he would try this again?

[chrismiller81]

WTF is going on with all these people sending this guy all there high end cards.. Wow this guy really #@#@#@#@ed a lot of good people on there cards.. #@#@#@#@ you Haiku if you don't come through on your end.. Im sorry but this is getting crazy someone needs to contact the police..

[dherm360]

This seems too weird, you claim in some posts he is your friend blah blah blah and wait until three hours ago to post these hi end missing cards --tell me I'm missing something

[texas]

This seems too weird, you claim in some posts he is your friend blah blah blah and wait until three hours ago to post these hi end missing cards --tell me I'm missing something

agreed................

[CALVINXLIONSX81]

Thanks for those that have helped. Located a few of them but it seems they were all paid for, it was worth a shot :(

They can file claims with paypal saying the items they paid for were Stolen...

[Fraser9698]

agreed................

I said in the title of another post that I had no association with him other than being a 'friend'. As in, people thought I was in on his scam, which I'm clearly not. Obviously I no longer consider him anything other than a criminal.

[Fraser9698]

tell me I'm missing something

Clearly...

[dherm360]

why wait until today to state these are missing

[Fraser9698]

why wait until today to state these are missing

All of this just came out a day and a half ago?

[dherm360]

and you waited, a day and a half, sorry I dont believe you

[Wings]

Wow dude, i can't imagine losing these...

[mrmoz55]

pretty sure saketm has most of those cards. definitely the chronos, that guy got many cards from haiku at crazy prices

[Fraser9698]

and you waited, a day and a half, sorry I dont believe you

You're correct. I made all of this up and didn't get scammed for my cards.

Dude I just got off the phone with someone who bought one of them from Haiku and has it on ebay now, and have located half of them. But I'm making this all up. :rolleyes:

2011 National Treasure John Wall RC Auto Patch 4 Colors 201 09 99 Wizards RARE | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/200863946628?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

[Fraser9698]

pretty sure saketm has most of those cards. definitely the chronos, that guy got many cards from haiku at crazy prices

Nope, I'm clearly making all of this up.

On a serious note thanks...already been speaking to him.

[clipperboy24]

I understand the situation. My issue isnt with you. Issue is with people sending idle threats of prison time for not sending cards back that they paid for and didnt know about them being stolen.

Again, maybe you need to file with the Police? Have you done this yet? This way you can document everything given back and if anything is sent, that you know what to do with it.

And since we are trying to get things back. You know any way of me getting back $7k that I was scammed out of a couple of years ago?

You make the mistake and the rest of us have to pay for it?

even if you didnt know, the property will be confiscated since it is stolen. This is the precedent set in every case of stolen goods. Then, it is the buyer's responsibility to pursue recourse with the person they purchased the goods from.

[blastman]

sounds like you need to reach out and touch someone !

[murrke03]

The lack of knowledge of members of this site is insane. It's like no one see the 40 plus threads an over 200 pages of talk on this scam.

I was shocked it actually wasn't being talked about on the bball forum but honestly go look this stuff over. It's like the whole rest of blowout forum is in craziness an no one here has any clue of it. Haha

To think Fraser is just making this up or sketchy for waiting one day to post here is nonsense.

[WilsonValdez]

People really need to stop going after the victims....there was 1 person fully complicit in this from the start.

[Sikkcaden]

Everyone is a damn Internet detective.

[boombaby_rm31]

i have never heard of this as well. i only go in the basketball forums/bst/breaks

sucks what happened though. i hope you get them all back

[Fraser9698]

Thanks for the support/help guys. It does amaze me that the people who got effed over the most are being accused of being involved in it.

If anything else this will be a lesson learned....not going down without a fight though.

[chrismiller81]

Thanks for the support/help guys. It does amaze me that the people who got effed over the most are being accused of being involved in it.

If anything else this will be a lesson learned....not going down without a fight though.

Hey bro his day will come soon enough! Remember what go's around comes around!! Karma is a bitch!!

[SPauthentic84]

Here is my two cents on the whole matter...and I also know, no one really cares what I think since no one actually knows me outside of a few.

Haiku truly duped everyone. Even if people were suspicious, how dare anyone speak out against him? He had more feedback then most. If someone did call him out, he would make up an excuse and the mob would take his side. Everyone was his puppet.

Again, for what its worth, I have been very fortunate to never have been ripped off outside of a postal worker stealing over 1k worth of cards (that I got my insurance money for). I always use common sense. The only dealings Ive ever had with Haiku was he bought a Matt Ryan Auto from me. I pm'ed him a bunch seemed like a good guy. Based on feedback and dealing with him, I always assumed (like many others), he was one of the good guys here.

Also I know no one on here right now will take someones word at face value. There are a total of 3 people I would put my own reputation on the line for by speaking up for them and Fraser is one of them. Fraser and I have actually kind of became real life friends. I know...it weird. We have both had the opportunity to rip each other off for literally thousands of dollars and havent. I cant see Will being a part of any part of this. From what he told me, hes just another victim.

[thecomebacker]

Should at least contact ebay to hault the sell of the WALL PRA since its "stolen" property. And with prove to the police, there is a big chance you can at least recover that card.

........and to think that that Biatch Haiku was pimping that Wall RPA all over the buy-sell section the last couple weeks too..........what a low-life!

[bigcwd2000]

Wow, this is all so messed up! Fraser I wish you and all the others the best in getting your cards and or money back from all this nonsense. Good luck to you.

[jt16]

You posted this comment in the Holiday lot part 2 thread

Great to see guys buying these!


Why was it great? Did you have some kind of investment in these lots? Was he using your cards to fill these lots and promised some type of return....Doesn't make sense why you were so happy to see these lots being sold.

[Filthy]

People really need to stop going after the victims....there was 1 person fully complicit in this from the start.


Yes, but it also highly likely that there were several other "ghost" accounts used to further solidify the in depth and well thought out scam.

[thecomebacker]

There is definitely something going on.....cause in another Haiku quick sales thread, the OP responded first on a Durant Autopatch for $11.xx before Haiku even posted the cards for sale and pics. Many members looking at the thread at the time witnessed it. (and the OP still haven't been able to explain how he knew to respond first to the Durant card before Haiku posted it with a pic).

Although deep down, I really believe the OP is not a partner in all of this, but rather a victim....he definitely had something going on with Haiku on these quick sales/ and mystery lots. Haiku probably promised him a cut on the mystery lots and first-in on the quick sales so the OP is getting something out of this, but he did not know that he was being used like a(fill in the blank here)......just my 2 cents.

[nissandriver77]

Dude here is a word of serious advice if you want to see your cards or have the pleasure of seeing this dude in person .

Hire a Private Investigator it sounds like a few of you where scammed so you can all chip in , the PI will bring you to his house , the rest is up to you guy's.

I personally have done this with Builders that think they can run with not paying invoices $100k and over and every time they find them under there supposed rocks.

Once they even found a typical scamming scum when he ran to different address under his Kids names to avoid detection but garbage alway's leaves a trail and family is alway's the weak link when trying to hide .

No one can hide they can be found .

Forget about police and the rest because they don't handle these items PI's are specialist's at tracking ( if they are good depends on who you appoint ).

Hope that helps !

[kenny3011]

There is definitely something going on.....cause in another Haiku quick sales thread, the OP responded first on a Durant Autopatch for $11.xx before Haiku even posted the cards for sale and pics. Many members looking at the thread at the time witnessed it. (and the OP still haven't been able to explain how he knew to respond first to the Durant card before Haiku posted it with a pic).

Although deep down, I really believe the OP is not a partner in all of this, but rather a victim....he definitely had something going on with Haiku on these quick sales/ and mystery lots. Haiku probably promised him a cut on the mystery lots and first-in on the quick sales so the OP is getting something out of this, but he did not know that he was being used like a(fill in the blank here)......just my 2 cents.

Would be interesting to see what happened there

[PackAttack419]

unless it was stated already, im still waiting to hear what haiku could have offered you in a trade that you'd give up like 10k worth of stuff in a trade , and to send first to a complete stranger (even though he had a higher feedback)

[jt16]

unless it was stated already, im still waiting to hear what haiku could have offered you in a trade that you'd give up like 10k worth of stuff in a trade , and to send first to a complete stranger (even though he had a higher feedback)

Lebron 2003 exquisite RAP

[tristan20]

Wow sorry to hear man, devastating stuff bro.

I will try my best to keep an eye out for you.

Highend trades like that, Escrow with a mod.

[JK8283]

Holy crap - to the OP, I'm really sorry to hear all this happened and I hope you get at least some of this stuff back.

To the rest of you - I've literally tried to piece together what Haiku did for the past 20 minutes or so but can't quite figure it out from all the massive threads. He conned several people in high end trades, but what is this I hear about these outrageous giveaways? How did this whole operation go down?

Once again, OP I feel badly for you, you seem like a good guy from what I've seen. Would just be helpful to hear a short synopsis of what happened so others can avoid falling into a similar trap in the future.

[suki24]

Holy crap - to the OP, I'm really sorry to hear all this happened and I hope you get at least some of this stuff back.

To the rest of you - I've literally tried to piece together what Haiku did for the past 20 minutes or so but can't quite figure it out from all the massive threads. He conned several people in high end trades, but what is this I hear about these outrageous giveaways? How did this whole operation go down?

Once again, OP I feel badly for you, you seem like a good guy from what I've seen. Would just be helpful to hear a short synopsis of what happened so others can avoid falling into a similar trap in the future.

He made 2 topics, not one but two topics about Holiday Lots, and guess what they were, mystery lots going for hundreds and some in the thousands, and all the gullible football people fell for this scam. Too bad I don't frequent the football board enough, I wished this guy tried it here on the bball forum, would know he's a scammer right away.

[BeingJustin]

Too many wannabe Colombo's in here. Too many people speak before they know. I know your a good dude who took his eye of the prize and got butt raped for it. I hope you get every single one of your cards back. Keep your head up bro & take it one day at a time. Don't let people ruff your feathers.

[mos2280]

damn sucks to hear this - he is probably a scrawny little teenager too

you would win :)

[Fraser9698]

Thanks to everyone again who has made positive comments and PMed me. Even thanks to OJ, I asked him to leave and he did. Seems like most of the people with hateful things to say are just flybys.

[murrke03]

This is getting nuts. I would go check out the main haiku thread. Getting very complicated..,.

[bdoody42]

This is getting nuts. I would go check out the main haiku thread. Getting very complicated..,.

What new things have turned up?

[crazymj]

Can someone link the official thread of haiku? Sounds like a big scam happened but can't find the details anywhere.

[gonygo]

Haiku huh...Damn shame. We all encounter sc*m-bags in this hobby. Many who talk a big game, jerk people around and /or steal..A low life is exactly that. Many pretend to be loyal, honest and even your friend and once trust is "earned" they stab u in the back and sometimes in the front. These people ain't worth spit. The problem is that they know this and do these types of things because they are miserable human beings and/or to make themselves feel better about how pathetic their life really is... Good luck Will, I hope you get your stuff back. You don't owe anything to anyone. All you can do is learn from this and move on.

[Krayzie83]

Damn those are some amazing cards.. Very sorry to hear what happened and hope somehow there's a happy ending. Wish ya luck man!

[whalechaser]

Sorry to hear what happened, but wow had no idea this whole thing was going on. That's what I get for just hiding in the basketball forums all the time. Read a few threads to catch up, pretty crazy stuff. Just wow.

[puregreen5]

I'm sorry for your loss! If I ever see any of those cards I will let you know! After this, I'm never trading anything over the internet or on forums ever again! I lost a $500.00 Dwight Howard BGS 9.5 and a Wilson Chandler 1/1 before, so I know the feeling! I wish you all the luck in the world, b/c you seem like a great person to me! The ahole that burned you, I hope burns in hell! Take care , I hope that this gets figured out in some way! Stay positive and work hard to get those beauties back!!! Good Luck on your journey bro! -Ryan-

[Tarheelsfan2012]

Wow. I remember going through his bucket one day and saw all those cards and assumed they were just some normal cards to him. I would be beyond ticked. I guess the one thing to help you would be some of them being very unique cards or serial numbered so they may turn up. Id be checking ebay to see if any pop up each day.

[MSD]

I have the Lebron...

edit: the first one

[benz35]

So no more haiku contest?

[bdoody42]

So no more haiku contest?

That's to say the least.

[MSD]

This is such a mess, I already filed in my first paypal claim stating that I received this card and am only asking for a partial refund.

The weird thing is that I got this about a month ago, how did he string you along for an entire month without sending anything to you? And why is this thread made today instead of earlier?

[Tarheelsfan2012]

This is such a mess, I already filed in my first paypal claim stating that I received this card and am only asking for a partial refund.

The weird thing is that I got this about a month ago, how did he string you along for an entire month without sending anything to you? And why is this thread made today instead of earlier?

Well it appears as though him and another guy were both told the cards they were gonna get were currently at Beckett and wouldnt be back until about now. There is no way I would ever make a trade and them not have the supposed card in hand ready to ship. If they didnt have it I'd say let me know when its back form Beckett and then we will talk.

[MSD]

That would make sense, I guess, but wouldn't they notice that this guy is rapidly selling these cards right after he gets them? What if something goes wrong with Beckett, how will you get your cards back? And the shocking part, is that you would send this quantity and value of cards for an IOU?? Just show me at least solid proof that this is your card and I'll send it back to you expecting that you'll work with me with paypal. I'm sorry if offending you, seems like the troubles are piling on for me and im frustrated to say the least

[Kosmo Kards]

If I had a stolen card and the owner wanted it back, the card would go back without hesitation. Some cards Haiku sent out for free. I hope you get every single card OP, I really do.

[tristan20]

Was there ever a transaction thread made where both parties agree to the trade?

Haiku aka The Bernie Madoff of cards lol

[JOHNJOHNNY]

Also to the people asking for threads as proof, haiku did most of his deals over the phone

[crazymj]

i've been scammed over the years multiple times. Each time you get owned, u learn a little bit more. But sometimes its just out of your control. Man i remember i got scammed out of like $1,000 when i was still in high school over selling of a world of warcraft account.

[davidsemo]

If I was trading that much high end stuff by mail with my own mother, i would use a mod as an escrow!

I am genuinely curious what he could have offered you to trade away that much inventory...

Good luck getting your stuff back bro

[dmogull]

Sorry Fraser. If there is one thing I truly despise, it is scammers. That P.O.S. will get what's coming to him (cold hard steel and concrete...oh and possibly a new friend named "Big Bubba").

[cardsdownunder]

I can understand if all the other boards you have one feedback.... I'm sure many others had one transaction go well :)! I personally know based on your attitude I would never trade with you.

winner winner chicken dinner ^^^

[XARZY]

If I was trading that much high end stuff by mail with my own mother, i would use a mod as an escrow!

I am genuinely curious what he could have offered you to trade away that much inventory...

Good luck getting your stuff back bro
As stated before, it was a Lebron Exq RPA /99

[murrke03]

for those interested here is the main thread:

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/member-sales-trade-feedback/415488-haiku-suspended-rumors-massive-scam-emerge-85.html

Happy Reading! lol

I had been following it for a while but it is starting to become a witch hunt / chasing down of bogus leads. But who knows maybe one of those guys will find something...

One interesting this was that the name 'Jay Morgan' seemed to have been involved as a scam months before yet Haiku used that name for the past couple months and no one seemed to notice...

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/270539-please-read-very-important.html

anyway i will probably not follow as much although it is some good bathroom reading if bored. haha

[Fraser9698]

Someone needs to get laid :).

Cards are not my life, they are monetary. Yes it sucks but at the end of the day my family and friends are safe and that's what really matters. It is what it is.

Also, thanks to everyone who has messaged the Ebay seller about the Wall. I have spoken to him over the phone and he has taken the auction down. He got scammed from Haiku as well(broncosmanning18 or something like that).

[Orangejello727]

Fraser, look at this thread.
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/football/416518-any-chance-i-get-back-any-cards-haiku-stole-me-9.html#post3853424

Bronco is claiming he got ripped off by Haiku for 11k cash and 5k in cards.

You claim you got ripped off by Haiku by sending him 10k in cards including that John Wall RPA?

So how does Bronco end up with a card on ebay that you specifically sent to Haiku?

[Fraser9698]

Fraser, look at this thread.
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/football/416518-any-chance-i-get-back-any-cards-haiku-stole-me-9.html#post3853424

Bronco is claiming he got ripped off by Haiku for 11k cash and 5k in cards.

You claim you got ripped off by Haiku by sending him 10k in cards including that John Wall RPA?

So how does Bronco end up with a card on ebay that you specifically sent to Haiku?


Responded there for you.

[ebitz]

Its funny how quickly people forget the "hero" haiku was before this scandal went down. There were entire threads praising this guy for his kindness, how it was such a "stand up guy" now fast forward a week or 2 and people questions fraser for sending him cards?
This could of happened to anyone of the of haiku followers or outsiders who knew him to be a trustworthy board member . Its just unfortunate it happened to fraser in what was such a large trade.
I think its going to be really really difficult to get anything done legally. In the scheme of everything going on I have seen things like this get pushed off to the side just due to all of the things the authorities have going one. Plus it might be hard to substantiate what you actually paid for some of these.
The guy who recommend the PI route might have something, its not traditional and potentially drastic but it might get spark some action
good luck

[Orangejello727]

I called Haiku out a few times (Called him Mr. Chargeback) for his chargebacks done to a few members and I got railed pretty hard!!

No use knocking Fraser while he is down. Fraser hope you dont take my questioning the wrong/negative way. Im just analyzing it all.

[tristan20]

What happens when you call his number?

[dreamweaver1984]

Well, if the owner's card was stolen, then was sold to someone else. In reality, the new owner now has a stolen property (even he has no knowledge of it). By law, the new owner needs to return the stolen property to the rightful owner. The new owner needs to go after the theif for his/her loss.


this file a police report man, then provide all the info here, and if you know who exactly they were given/sold to then you should be able to get them back that way.

[MSD]

Do you mind giving me some evidence that you bought or own this card so I can finally call paypal and try to resolve this situation?

[EricMetcalf21]

wow, there is no way i would make this deal over the internet. if i did i would probably jump off a cliff if this happened to me.

[WillC]

wow, there is no way i would make this deal over the internet. if i did i would probably jump off a cliff if this happened to me.

Encouraging suicide? Useful contribution.

[chrismiller81]

Encouraging suicide? Useful contribution.

Haha nice....

[EricMetcalf21]

Encouraging suicide? Useful contribution.


True, didnt think of it that way, my bad

[Bars and Bar]

Lebron James 04 05 SP Signature Inkredible Inscriptions Auto SP 25 "King James" | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEBRON-JAMES-04-05-SP-SIGNATURE-INKREDIBLE-INSCRIPTIONS-AUTO-SP-25-KING-JAMES-/200878999021?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item2ec55245ed)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-NATIONAL-TREASURES-JOHN-WALL-RC-AUTO-LOGO-PATCH-4-COLORS-09-99-WIZARDS-RARE-/200878633315?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item2ec54cb163

Yours

[wadedaniel84]

Bump......

[BeingJustin]

Famous carpet.

[crazymj]

Lebron James 04 05 SP Signature Inkredible Inscriptions Auto SP 25 "King James" | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEBRON-JAMES-04-05-SP-SIGNATURE-INKREDIBLE-INSCRIPTIONS-AUTO-SP-25-KING-JAMES-/200878999021?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item2ec55245ed)

2011 National Treasures John Wall RC Auto Logo Patch 4 Colors 09 99 Wizards RARE | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-NATIONAL-TREASURES-JOHN-WALL-RC-AUTO-LOGO-PATCH-4-COLORS-09-99-WIZARDS-RARE-/200878633315?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item2ec54cb163)

Yours

So whats going to happen? Try to win it, get the card and then tell ebay/paypal cops whats going on to get money back?

[Bars and Bar]

So whats going to happen? Try to win it, get the card and then tell ebay/paypal cops whats going on to get money back?

I just thought I'd let the OP know. As for your question, I'm not sure.

[Fraser9698]

Thanks guys but i came to an agreement with the purchaser of those two before auction. He bought them in good faith from haiku and paid gift so couldnt get a refund. Appreciate everyone looking out for me, though.

[jess0304]

Now this guy is telling me I should give him a card back THAT I BOUGHT FROM HAIKU and threatening me he is going to the police. There are lots of people that BOUGHT THESE, got NO REFUND, and were not given them as gifts.

There is no reason that we should get screwed too. This guy wants to hurt other people and is trying to get people to send him cards back, or money for them. He has threatened to go to the police.

NO ONE that bought these from haiku and paid is liable. They were all being sold and this guy knew they were being sold and he did and said nothing. So now he wants people who have made purchases, received no refund, to send cards or money so WE can be out something when we legitimately bought something that NO ONE knew what would happen.

He states in this thread he KNOWS NO ONE KNEW THEY WERE STOLEN yet he has threatened me saying he's going to the police, now he says he's going to give me a few days to cool down and he'll be in contact.

The situation is HORRIBLE for everyone, but why should people that bought stuff suffer? I received ONE CARD that I should've gotten from this guy and was scammed for around 3k, and now I should send him money or a card that i bought IN ADDITION to getting scammed!

Yes, fraser was victimized, but he should've also thought before sending that much in cards with nothing in return, and then watching all these cards be sold OR GIVEN AWAY while he still had nothing.

[jess0304]

after threatening me and i get upset this is what he tells me....

Take a Xanax, bud. Not worth getting so worked up at such a young age.

this guy is threatening me, saying i did something wrong when i was also victimized and he tells me to take a xanax? WOW

[SPauthentic84]

Here is my two cents (and I know I am internet "buddies" with Will)

This is a community. A ton of people got took by him. I bet you bought that card for a real good price too. Why not sell and split to lessen the loss? I would like to think I would do the same if I were in your shoes.

But why should you have to suffer too? Just saying legally you have stolen goods and now you know they are stolen.

[Fraser9698]

You *really* do need to take a Xanax.

...and yes, if you sell that stolen card(as you have been trying to do on HK) I would consider pursuing legal action, for the principle of it.

Funny that you are the only person I've had an issue with.

[Orangejello727]

after threatening me and i get upset this is what he tells me....

Take a Xanax, bud. Not worth getting so worked up at such a young age.

this guy is threatening me, saying i did something wrong when i was also victimized and he tells me to take a xanax? WOW

Fraser, do you expect to make a mistake like this and have everyone else pay the price for your mistake?

What did you threaten him with?

Intimidation is against the law as well.

On thate note!!, I was scammed for $14k a few years back. I think some of these cards were mine from back then, therefore they probably belong to me as well!!

[BostonNut]

I dunno...I'm stuck on the fence.

It was a horribly stupid decision by the OP...just dumbfounding.

Yet the card is technically stolen property...

It's a sticky wicket as our UK friends might say...

[Fraser9698]

Fraser, do you expect to make a mistake like this and have everyone else pay the price for your mistake?

What did you threaten him with?

Intimidation is against the law as well.

On thate note!!, I was scammed for $14k a few years back. I think some of these cards were mine from back then, therefore they probably belong to me as well!!


You have no place in this discussion, if I've got some cards that were once yours and you were scammed for them PM me with proof of which ones they were and I'll send them back to you. :)

[patchgenie]

so is the seller on ebay that broncomanning guy:confused: i remember someone saying he was selling "enlargement" pills.

[Fraser9698]

I dunno...I'm stuck on the fence.

It was a horribly stupid decision by the OP...just dumbfounding.

Yet the card is technically stolen property...

It's a sticky wicket as our UK friends might say...

Horribly stupid is an understatement.

He went immediately into defense mode when I asked him about him selling it over on HK, which prompted me to bring up the legality of the situation.

[Fraser9698]

so is the seller on ebay that broncomanning guy:confused: i remember someone saying he was selling "enlargement" pills.

Broncos sold two of them on his Ebay account and we came to an agreement to split the losses since we were in similar situations. Very noble thing of him to do.

[Orangejello727]

You have no place in this discussion, if I've got some cards that were once yours and you were scammed for them PM me with proof of which ones they were and I'll send them back to you. :)

What proof do you want? Ill find 5 people that will confirm I once had a card . Ill give you a generic scan of it. Thus making it mine. Add the story it got stolen and now I found it with you. Tada! Plausible enough to take it away from you? Exactly what you're doing.

So technically what you are doing is an Idle threat! I know you want to kick me out of this thread because you are strong arming innocent people into taking the loss for your mistake. I called you out for this right in page 1.

Jess you really want advice? Read that link in page 1 that I posted. When the police call, dont be afraid. Tell them exactly how you bought the card and how much you paid. Do not be afraid of the law. Most people use it to intimidate you because you dont know the law. For all we know he already has that Lebron RPA and is double dipping.

THe first and most important question that needs to be answered... Did you buy the card "Knowing full well it was stolen?" yes or no. If your answer is No, then you are cleared of any wrongdoing.

I urge you to get legal advice if someone wants to sue you. Talk to the police as well.

Its truly frusrating to watch innocent people get ripped off by people who make the mistakes. So whats happening here is Fraser being a bone head goes and get himself ripped off. Now he wants other people to pay for his mistakes. How is this close to being fair? Jess loses $2k while Fraser gets free handouts for being naive and making mistakes. Utterly disgusting.

[Fraser9698]

What proof do you want? Ill find 5 people that will confirm I once had a card . Ill give you a generic scan of it. Thus making it mine. Add the story it got stolen and now I found it with you. Tada! Plausible enough to take it away from you? Exactly what you're doing.

So technically what you are doing is an Idle threat! I know you want to kick me out of this thread because you are strong arming innocent people into taking the loss for your mistake. I called you out for this right in page 1.

Jess you really want advice? Read that link in page 1 that I posted. When the police call, dont be afraid. Tell them exactly how you bought the card and how much you paid. Do not be afraid of the law. Most people use it to intimidate you because you dont know the law.

THe first and most important question that needs to be answered... Did you buy the card "Knowing full well it was stolen?" yes or no. If your answer is No, then you are cleared of any wrongdoing.

I urge you to get legal advice if someone wants to sue you. Talk to the police as well.

You are correct. This is all a big scam, that I orchestrated. :rolleyes:

I ask you to leave because this board is a giant flame war to you dominated by your one sided views. I also encourage him to seek legal advice as I don't(nor anyone here) know how to decipher the laws of receiving stolen property in the state where he's from. Multiple people have contacted me with these cards and not one(well...maybe one now) will tell you I tried to intimidate them into anything. Intimidation is your move, bubba.

[Orangejello727]

You are correct. This is all a big scam, that I orchestrated. :rolleyes:

I ask you to leave because this board is a giant flame war to you dominated by your one sided views. I also encourage him to seek legal advice as I don't(nor anyone here) know how to decipher the laws of receiving stolen property in the state where he's from. Multiple people have contacted me with these cards and not one(well...maybe one now) will tell you I tried to intimidate them into anything. Intimidation is your move, bubba.

So whos going to pay for their losses since your seem to think you can get a free ride from your mistakes by chasing down other people.

He lost 2k to Haiku. What do you suggest he does? Chase Haiku?

You lost your card to Haiku? Why dont you chase him as well.

Pure dirty. You want others to pay for your mistakes. This guy went public because you threatened him in pm. Otherwise this was a stale thread for a long time. So when you dont get your way, you threaten him.

You need to eat your loss. At the end of the day YOU made the mistake, why should anyone else suffer?

Can you prove that you never got paid by Haiku for the cards you sent him? For all we know you got paid for them and now want them back because of the fall out.

[Fraser9698]

Thank you for the input :)!

[JK8283]

I don't care about the rest of the situation, it is point blank against the law to deal in known stolen goods. Sucks that the OP would have to remind people of this, but those are the facts.

[Orangejello727]

I got ripped off and you own stolen goods that I owned once as well. Point black its against the law for you sell any cards that dont belong to you eventhough you say they do.

Do yourself a favor and go to the police Fraser. Stop coming on the boards to threaten people. Do it through the courts and police. NOT HERE.

[SPauthentic84]

I don't care about the rest of the situation, it is point blank against the law to deal in known stolen goods. Sucks that the OP would have to remind people of this, but those are the facts.

+1

I dont think Will ever had the intention of bullying anyone or getting the law involved, despite what OJ thinks.

Jess could have handled it better by not losing his cool. At the end of the day, legally he has stolen goods (he is aware it is stolen now) and that is what matters. If he handled himself with maturity it doesnt turn into a flame war, rather two mature men making the best out of a rotten situation.

[hche]

I got ripped off and you own stolen goods that I owned once as well. Point black its against the law for you sell any cards that dont belong to you eventhough you say they do.

Do yourself a favor and go to the police Fraser. Stop coming on the boards to threaten people. Do it through the courts and police. NOT HERE.


After all these and the big amount involved, OP has not filed a police report? OP needs to file a police report to really has a claim on the cards. If not, anyone can claim they lost a card and bash the new owner for no reason.

[hche]

I don't care about the rest of the situation, it is point blank against the law to deal in known stolen goods. Sucks that the OP would have to remind people of this, but those are the facts.

OP needs to prove the cards are really stolen first. Then the stolen property part kicks in.

[Fraser9698]

There *is* a police report for anyone wondering....

[Orangejello727]

+1

I dont think Will ever had the intention of bullying anyone or getting the law involved, despite what OJ thinks.

Jess could have handled it better by not losing his cool. At the end of the day, legally he has stolen goods (he is aware it is stolen now) and that is what matters. If he handled himself with maturity it doesnt turn into a flame war, rather two mature men making the best out of a rotten situation.

Mature way is to man up to your mistakes and take the loss. Not chasing down others to regain your losses and leaving them with a loss because you intially made the mistake.

Thats the difference here. Wanting a free ride for being dumb is not the way to go about it. All this is transferring losses to those who never made the msitake while those who did make a fools mistake getting to benefit from it.

What is happening here is fraser made the mistake. Now he is trying to find people to pay for his mistakes as he expect them to take the loss while he gets back everything. Go find right in that.

IF this is a police matter, why arent the police contacting him and not fraser himself?

[hche]

Mature way is to man up to your mistakes and take the loss. Not chasing down others to regain your losses and leaving them with a loss because you intially made the mistake.

Thats the difference here. Wanting a free ride for being dumb is not the way to go about it. All this is transferring losses to those who never made the msitake while those who did make a fools mistake getting to benefit from it.

What is happening here is fraser made the mistake. Now he is trying to find people to pay for his mistakes as he expect them to take the loss while he gets back everything. Go find right in that.

IF this is a police matter, why arent the police contacting him and not fraser himself?

I think Fraser should contact the police and advise them where some of the stolen cards are and let them take it from there. He can let the new owner know about the cards being stolen but it's not right if he is threatening the new owenr with anything.

[Orangejello727]

I think Fraser should contact the police and advise them where some of the stolen cards are and let them take it from there. He can let the new owner know about the cards being stolen but it's not right if he is threatening the new owenr with anything.

I agree. Let the police do it since you filed a report. This is out of your hands. If anyone is going to enforce the law, its the cops. No sense in pmming people and hooking them. If you know who has your stuff why dont you contact the investigative team instead of going after them yourself?

[bradyjames]

I don't care about the rest of the situation, it is point blank against the law to deal in known stolen goods. Sucks that the OP would have to remind people of this, but those are the facts.



I agree.


With our laws, it is the one that has the stolen goods in their possesion that have to give them up.


I just want to say Will is somebody I have dealt with on purchases numerous times and he has always been honest with me.


I know those cards were part of Will's PC and that Haiku dangled the one card out in front of Will that would have made him trade those cards.

[Orangejello727]

Bringing this for page 1 for informational purpose since it seems to have gone over some peoples head.

What is Receiving Stolen Property? (http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/crime_property.htm)

Keep in mind, the keyword here is "Knowingly buys stolen goods"

"Receiving stolen goods is generally buying or acquiring the possession of property knowing (or believing in some jurisdictions) that it had been obtained through theft, embezzlement, larceny, or extortion by someone else. The crime is separate from the crime of stealing the property. To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief. Paying for the goods or intending to collect the reward for returning them are not defenses. Depending on the value of the property received, receiving-stolen-property is either a misdemeanor or a felony.

NOTE:

To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief.

Let the cops handle it. They will ask that question. Did you know the card was stolen when you bought it? The answer is NO. Even Fraser didnt know it was stolen when Haiku sold it!!

[hche]

Bringing this for page 1 for informational purpose since it seems to have gone over some peoples head.

What is Receiving Stolen Property? (http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/crime_property.htm)

Keep in mind, the keyword here is "Knowingly buys stolen goods"



NOTE:



Let the cops handle it. They will ask that question. Did you know the card was stolen when you bought it? The answer is NO. Even Fraser didnt know it was stolen when Haiku sold it!!

I don't think we are talking about the buyers being charged at receiving stolen property. 99.99% sure they will not be charged (unless the cops find otherwise). The question is whether they need to return those property because they are stolen. Only the court can decide that.

[Orangejello727]

I don't think we are talking about the buyers being charged at receiving stolen property. 99.99% sure they will not be charged (unless the cops find otherwise). The question is whether they need to return those property because they are stolen. Only the court can decide that.

Yep. It would have to go to court. But the cops will make a decision and its up to the other person to contest it in court if they dont agree.

Just like fighting a traffic ticket. You get tagged, you pay the fine or take it to court. A judge will make his decision based on the information provided. If it comes to court, and you found to be negligent but with no knowledge of theft prior to purchase, it all freezes up till they find the culprit of theft. its a dumb cycle and nothing ever happens. Or atleast from the examples Ive seen.

Thats why to Jess, dont get scared when someone says the cops will be after you. You have done nothing wrong.

Now this guy is telling me I should give him a card back THAT I BOUGHT FROM HAIKU and threatening me he is going to the police. There are lots of people that BOUGHT THESE, got NO REFUND, and were not given them as gifts.


That highlighted part is what I dontl like. Instead of informing the person, why didnt fraser just go to the cops instead of coming directly to him? Unless of course there is no recourse of action and the only way to get back the cards is to strong arm the person into believing something through fear!! Any law official will tell you to let them handle it., not doing it yourself.

[jess0304]

Here is the bottom line.....the bottom line is all fraser's cards were sold and he knew they were being sold. fraser was pumping up all the mystery lots that were being sold, fraser knew haiku was selling these cards. So with that being said, should we have been omnipotent and know haiku was going to do this? FRASER KNEW THESE CARDS WERE BEING SOLD AND IF HE WAS SO CONCERNED HE SHOULD'VE POSTED ABOUT IT THEN!

With that being said, NO ONE bought these cards knowing what haiku would do, and no one that bought the cards has any responsibility. If they WON the cards in a contest, then its a different story and maybe return them. but people that PAID for these cards did nothing wrong.

This is the last time I will discuss this. The person that should he held responsible is haiku, not people that LEGITIMATELY bought these and paid for them.

[jess0304]

Horribly stupid is an understatement.

He went immediately into defense mode when I asked him about him selling it over on HK, which prompted me to bring up the legality of the situation.


STOP LYING! i did not get defensive! I simply said that I prefer HK for basketball because people pay better, and there seem to be more "COLLECTORS" there rather than people looking for a flip.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/426151-have-you-seen-these-cards.html

How can you say in this post that you KNOW NO ONE KNEW WHAT HAPPENED AND YOU DON'T EXPECT CARDS BACK FROM PEOPLE.

But you threaten me with calling the police?

BOTTOM LINE IS YOU GOT SCAMMED AND YOU WANT SOMEONE ELSE TO PAY FOR YOUR MISTAKE OF SENDING A GUY YOU NEVER MET 10K WORTH OF CARDS, WATCHED HIM SELL THEM, AND THEN DISAPPEAR.

Its really really a shame what happened to EVERYONE. But move on and get over it.

[Fraser9698]

Care respond to my pm about your card being moved to the gone portion of your bucket? I dont think anybody here wants to keep reading this. Was it sold?

[jess0304]

im done answering your messages. I did absolutely nothing at all wrong. YOU EVEN SAY THAT NO ONE KNEW WHEN THEY WERE BUYING THESE CARDS THAT WE KNEW THEY WERE "STOLEN."

I bought the card and can do what I want with it. I'm sorry that I'm not folding like other guys that gave you or sold you cards back. I bought the card fair and square and you watched all the sales happen.

Do not message me again. If you think I knew I was buying stolen cards, which you clearly already said in writing that NO ONE knew this would happen and you watched all the cards get sold right in front of you, have the police contact me. I am done with your games, threats, and nasty comments.

Please leave me alone.

[Sikkcaden]

Lol @ this guy thinking because he bought a card under the impression it wasn't stolen entitles him to the card. The card goes back to Fraser, your beef is with getting your $ back from the person you bought it from. Quit trying to tailor the law and how you think it should work. It's Fraser's card and if he wanted to pursue it he could have HIS card back from you immediately.

[wilsunshines]

High end card collecting is the weirdest hobby.

[Sikkcaden]

im done answering your messages. I did absolutely nothing at all wrong. YOU EVEN SAY THAT NO ONE KNEW WHEN THEY WERE BUYING THESE CARDS THAT WE KNEW THEY WERE "STOLEN."

I bought the card and can do what I want with it. I'm sorry that I'm not folding like other guys that gave you or sold you cards back. I bought the card fair and square and you watched all the sales happen.

Do not message me again. If you think I knew I was buying stolen cards, which you clearly already said in writing that NO ONE knew this would happen and you watched all the cards get sold right in front of you, have the police contact me. I am done with your games, threats, and nasty comments.

Please leave me alone.

LOL YOU clearly don't understand the law. You just wish it worked this way!

Fraser, file the proper reports, get your card back and let this guy deal with the law when pursuing haiku for his $ back (which I assume he got back from PayPal already)

[pingbling23]

bottom line is you now knowingly have stolen property, regardless if you paid/traded/got it as a gift or however you obtained it. hopefully everything works out for the both of you.

[wilsunshines]

I mean, if someone stole $10k+ from me, my first step would be to call the police.

[Wings]

...........

[SPauthentic84]

I mean, if someone stole $10k+ from me, my first step would be to call the police.

He did.

Didnt read the whole thread before posting did you?

[wilsunshines]

He did.

Didnt read the whole thread before posting did you?

Sure didn't. All the awful arguing was bumming me out.

[hche]

This inquiry is very similar to this situation:

I Bought Stolen Goods and Now the Police Want It (http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144654)

I believe if jess sold or trade away the card AFTER he was told the card was stolen, then he can get into some trouble. BUT Fraser still needs to let the police knows where some of the items are.

[ronaldo943]

Where is Frasers actual proof that those were his cards(no photobucket proof) personally i wouldnt give this guy a card if he didnt have actual proof especially if he was harassing me

[mrlaker]

This inquiry is very similar to this situation:

I Bought Stolen Goods and Now the Police Want It (http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144654)

I believe if jess sold or trade away the card AFTER he was told the card was stolen, then he can get into some trouble. BUT Fraser still needs to let the police knows where some of the items are.

jess is going to get into some trouble if he sold the goods after knowing they were stolen, which it appears is what happened as the card appeared to bein his possesion when he was made aware of the situation and only recently changed when confronted.

Shitty situation.

[Fraser9698]

Where is Frasers actual proof that those were his cards(no photobucket proof) personally i wouldnt give this guy a card if he didnt have actual proof especially if he was harassing me

Police report work?

[mrlaker]

Where is Frasers actual proof that those were his cards(no photobucket proof) personally i wouldnt give this guy a card if he didnt have actual proof especially if he was harassing me

please get out of here with that weak argument. It takes at most a few minutes to track the card from its point of possesion in fraser's hands, to haiku's hands to the other peoples hands. The numerous records of sale through PM's tracking and more would be more than enough.

the fact's are legally no one has a leg to stand on when it comes to returning fraser's items, you can be a dick about it and scream until your purple but when it comes down to it, the only thing that will happen is fraser should get's what's his.

[bdoody42]

It is just a bad situation for both parties, and one that probably could have been avoided.

[ronaldo943]

please get out of here with that weak argument. It takes at most a few minutes to track the card from its point of possesion in fraser's hands, to haiku's hands to the other peoples hands. The numerous records of sale through PM's tracking and more would be more than enough.

the fact's are legally no one has a leg to stand on when it comes to returning fraser's items, you can be a dick about it and scream until your purple but when it comes down to it, the only thing that will happen is fraser should get's what's his.

Yes fraser should get whats his even though he won some haiku beats he said he wanted the durant before it was posted and now he harasses/threats someone to give him "his" cards

[mrlaker]

Yes fraser should get whats his even though he won some haiku beats he said he wanted the durant before it was posted and now he harasses/threats someone to give him "his" cards

Fair enough on the other points being negative reflections on fraser, but the main point at issue in this thread remains unchanged. His stolen property should be returned to him.

The other issues are relevant in their own realm.

[ronaldo943]

And im really sorry if these where your cards fraser but harassing and threatening people is not cool

[Fraser9698]

Spoke to jess and it has been worked out. Will probably start a new thread with the cards that havent been found and let this one die....

[Orangejello727]

please get out of here with that weak argument. It takes at most a few minutes to track the card from its point of possesion in fraser's hands, to haiku's hands to the other peoples hands. The numerous records of sale through PM's tracking and more would be more than enough.

the fact's are legally no one has a leg to stand on when it comes to returning fraser's items, you can be a dick about it and scream until your purple but when it comes down to it, the only thing that will happen is fraser should get's what's his.

Really? Based on what proof? Take it to court and see what happens. Instead of coming here, use the system and see how it works out. Its not as simple as you think.

Ive got scans of cards. I can easily claim them as mine and stolen based on a pic in my photobucket and witnesses that verify me having it. Now what? I can just ask you to give up the card in your possession based on this evidence?

He should be going after Haiku. Haiku owes him. No one else. The fear mongering is getting way out of control. Instead of coming here and trying scare people with legal action, why not take the action if its that simple. All fraser has to do with file with the police report and leave it to to them. WHy come online and chase people down when you have an investigation open?

Fraser, out of all the cards you gave away for free (not stolen because you sent them with your own free will), how many have been returned to you for free? How many were returned to you at a cost? Id like to know which ones and how much for return?

This is a prime example that you can be negligent with dealings like Fraser was. Then you can go out and get back everything free for his mistakes while everyone else eats their losses. Great example of how the victim isnt a victim, hes actually a winner. How ? By gambling and losing then getting back what he lost on gambling. Try that move in a casino and see how far that gets you.

[phishphood318]

Man I'm not sure what happened with your deal but I would never be able to trade on her for the fear of what happened to you. I'm new here and this is my exact point. People were mocking me when I put my Lebron Exquisite RC. They all said I had to send first since I am New. I said you expect me to send you a $15,000 because you have good feedback on a website and don't want to ruin it? Then they said send it to a mediator or middle man. So it's not like two people cannot know each other.

Now I don't know how much total on your cards is but this just goes to show you if they will screw someone over for less why wouldn't someone screw me over for a price of a new car. I got ripped by everyone and they acted as if they would do it.

[mrlaker]

Man I'm not sure what happened with your deal but I would never be able to trade on her for the fear of what happened to you. I'm new here and this is my exact point. People were mocking me when I put my Lebron Exquisite RC. They all said I had to send first since I am New. I said you expect me to send you a $15,000 because you have good feedback on a website and don't want to ruin it? Then they said send it to a mediator or middle man. So it's not like two people cannot know each other.

Now I don't know how much total on your cards is but this just goes to show you if they will screw someone over for less why wouldn't someone screw me over for a price of a new car. I got ripped by everyone and they acted as if they would do it.

this situation was a little different, it involved someone who was essentially the bernie madoff of blowout.

As for your situation, I agree no way in hell I'm sending that card first. As far as a mediator, there are mods on the site who offer to act as a middle man, I personally would feel safe with them as my middle man.

[phishphood318]

After thinking about it a little kind of funny I knew that name Haiku from somewhere. I was new on this site about 4 months ago. And I posted a few cards for sale. And read and made some posts. . But I put up my LeBron like I just said prior. And guess who the person was that wanted to make a trade first.. HAIKU.... he did say send first or use a middle man. Who knows if he would tried tricking me. But he was rather nice to me after I said no I will not send my card first. What a small world.... . And I got made fun of for it. I think I had some PM's from him but had to delete from my box being full. Good thing I stuck to my guns and would never send a card like this first.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball-singles-buy-sell-trade/397722-holy-grail-lebron-james-exquisite-rc.html

[SPauthentic84]

After thinking about it a little kind of funny I knew that name Haiku from somewhere. I was new on this site about 4 months ago. And I posted a few cards for sale. And read and made some posts. . But I put up my LeBron like I just said prior. And guess who the person was that wanted to make a trade first.. HAIKU.... he did say send first or use a middle man. Who knows if he would tried tricking me. But he was rather nice to me after I said no I will not send my card first. What a small world.... . And I got made fun of for it. I think I had some PM's from him but had to delete from my box being full. Good thing I stuck to my guns and would never send a card like this first.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball-singles-buy-sell-trade/397722-holy-grail-lebron-james-exquisite-rc.html

Your situation was different. You were looking to trade a $10-15k card but refused to send to anyone, including a mod first...with no feedback.

I cant imagine why no one wanted to trade.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

[phishphood318]

Ummm all I was stating is the guy who #@#@#@#@ed everyone over on this site about month later was asking me if I would send my super expensive card first. So if I would have believed everyone on this site that haiku is such a great member and so trustworthy I could have possibly fallen in his trap like others. Never said it was the same situation but I just thought it was funny he was the first to ask if I would send first. I said no I get it. But look what happened to other people who said yes but I was the #@#@#@#@#@#@#@ in my post who doesn't trust anyone on the Internet. I think I have good reason to feel that way. Because trust got a lot of people screwed over in the worst way on this site.

[thecomebacker]

Ummm all I was stating is the guy who #@#@#@#@ed everyone over on this site about month later was asking me if I would send my super expensive card first. So if I would have believed everyone on this site that haiku is such a great member and so trustworthy I could have possibly fallen in his trap like others. Never said it was the same situation but I just thought it was funny he was the first to ask if I would send first. I said no I get it. But look what happened to other people who said yes but I was the #@#@#@#@#@#@#@ in my post who doesn't trust anyone on the Internet. I think I have good reason to feel that way. Because trust got a lot of people screwed over in the worst way on this site.
Brother. I think you are taking it way too serious. I don't think anyone in your thread actually believe in their heart that you should send a15k card first. They were just joking around since you had 0 feedback rating at the time and came in with this huuuge card. That's all.

[GoldenBoy23]

hey man! I thought i remember the card before. and i was right here it is.

16/50 Lebron inscription here.

HobbyKings.com :: View topic - Picked up this LeBron MOJO earlier today at my LCS.... (http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1153253#1153253)

[pingbling23]

i would assume he doesnt know the history of the card, hes posted this pick up on multiple forums.

[Hegotgame15]

i would assume he doesnt know the history of the card, hes posted this pick up on multiple forums.

yep.... and this is going to hurt when he finds out:mad:
Can't even trust LCS shops now...
But then again i doubt they would have known about its history....

[pingbling23]

yep.... and this is going to hurt when he finds out:mad:
Can't even trust LCS shops now...
But then again i doubt they would have known about its history....

but the good thing is, if he got it from a lcs, they should have a record of where they got it from. should make it alot easier to backtrack.

[GoldenBoy23]

i would assume he doesnt know the history of the card, hes posted this pick up on multiple forums.

what other sites? im only a member on BO.HK and Oz. lol

[pingbling23]

hk and beckett that i know of.

[adamt326]

The John Wall is on blowout too or did you end up making a deal with Bronco to sell it?

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball-singles-buy-sell-trade/463244-ft-john-wall-national-treasures-rap-99-sick-patch.html?highlight=John+wall

[mickey7mantle7]

Hey guys. Got some heads up on what had happened. Unfortunate yes. I will notify my LCS about it. Pretty sure he is as clueless as i was and still am. Here is the card i bought from that store .


I have been a loyal member and a friend on multiple sites. I have never tried or knowingly bought "hot" cards...i just find this to be one of those things you hear happen to fellow members and the tail end of some of it lands on my lap out of no where....lo lcrazy!!!!

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo190/mickey7mantle7/20130301_131942_zpsab06e442.jpg

[YoungCub]

Got a good memory so I'll keep a look out for you...

Possible LeBron James AUTO For Trade.... (http://www.sportscardforum.com/threads/1892035-Possible-LeBron-James-AUTO-For-Trade)

Lebron 16/50 good luck

[got_watcha_want]

Got a good memory so I'll keep a look out for you...

Possible LeBron James AUTO For Trade.... (http://www.sportscardforum.com/threads/1892035-Possible-LeBron-James-AUTO-For-Trade)

Lebron 16/50 good luck

Yeah...those of us that are members of multiple forums, have seen that Lebron posted FT.

[mickey7mantle7]

I contacted the owner of the card shop i bought it from here in town....he said some guy came in and traded it in for some boxes of cards. Said he didnt exactly remember who.

Now he is aware at least.


I posted this originially on the beckett forums having not known this of course..

If this is all so true; was there ever a police report filed.

[mickey7mantle7]

Yeah...those of us that are members of multiple forums, have seen that Lebron posted FT.

Yea...you've seen it posted by me. It's not like I'm not known on other sites...lol

Think i would post stolen crap on "multiple" sites in hopes of others not knowing? C'mon guy, think about the things you say and who I am...

[pitterchi]

This situation sucks. I'm fairly certain if you buy stolen property and an official police report is filed, the person in possession of the property must give it back. Seems like its true even across state lines.

But, I was watching Pawn Stars the other day and they had bought a stolen coin. They were going to have to give it back to its true owner but the owner had it insured and was compensated for the coin. Because the original owner was compensated, they were able to keep the coin.

My advise to the OP if he hasn't already is to contact your police department, possibly the FBI and file something official before the statute of limitations runs out. Or hopefully they were insured and you have already been compensated in which people should keep the cards.

[CALVINXLIONSX81]

This situation sucks. I'm fairly certain if you buy stolen property and an official police report is filed, the person in possession of the property must give it back. Seems like its true even across state lines.

But, I was watching Pawn Stars the other day and they had bought a stolen coin. They were going to have to give it back to its true owner but the owner had it insured and was compensated for the coin. Because the original owner was compensated, they were able to keep the coin.

My advise to the OP if he hasn't already is to contact your police department, possibly the FBI and file something official. Or hopefully they were insured and you have already been compensated in which people should keep the cards.

These were my exact thoughts but didn't want to be that guy, :p.

[pitterchi]

These were my exact thoughts but didn't want to be that guy, :p.

LOL, I guess I'm that guy.

[Fraser9698]

This situation sucks. I'm fairly certain if you buy stolen property and an official police report is filed, the person in possession of the property must give it back. Seems like its true even across state lines.

But, I was watching Pawn Stars the other day and they had bought a stolen coin. They were going to have to give it back to its true owner but the owner had it insured and was compensated for the coin. Because the original owner was compensated, they were able to keep the coin.

My advise to the OP if he hasn't already is to contact your police department, possibly the FBI and file something official before the statute of limitations runs out. Or hopefully they were insured and you have already been compensated in which people should keep the cards.

We've been in contact and he bought the thing unknowingly and me getting it back would be essentially ripping him out of the money he paid for it. I will not screw an innocent guy over for a $500 card. Do I want it back? Yes....but I'm not about to do essentially the same thing that happened to me to get it. My mistake and he shouldn't have to pay for it. Now if he paid paypal, PP could reimburse his money after seeing a police report, but it wasn't.

Thanks to everyone who has send me leads/given me heads up on things that have popped up.

[mickey7mantle7]

We've been in contact and he bought the thing unknowingly and me getting it back would be essentially ripping him out of the money he paid for it. I will not screw an innocent guy over for a $500 card. Do I want it back? Yes....but I'm not about to do essentially the same thing that happened to me to get it. My mistake and he shouldn't have to pay for it. Now if he paid paypal, PP could reimburse his money after seeing a police report, but it wasn't.

Thanks to everyone who has send me leads/given me heads up on things that have popped up.

Thanks Fraser...it's actually 550. Lol

Did u ever find out where the other cards were or just this one?

[pitterchi]

We've been in contact and he bought the thing unknowingly and me getting it back would be essentially ripping him out of the money he paid for it. I will not screw an innocent guy over for a $500 card. Do I want it back? Yes....but I'm not about to do essentially the same thing that happened to me to get it. My mistake and he shouldn't have to pay for it. Now if he paid paypal, PP could reimburse his money after seeing a police report, but it wasn't.

Thanks to everyone who has send me leads/given me heads up on things that have popped up.

The choice is yours. I think you'll get good karma for that. I don't think many would take this route. Props to you.

Props to Mickey7Mantle7 too, he didn't try to hide and did the right thing.

These types of people give me hope!

[Fraser9698]

The choice is yours. I think you'll get good karma for that. I don't think many would take this route. Props to you.

Props to Mickey7Mantle7 too, he didn't try to hide and did the right thing.

These types of people give me hope!

His reaction is what sold it for me....had he gone into a defensive fit about it and accused a bunch of stuff then I'd have probably been a little more harsh but he was calm and collected the whole time and tried to help so....not putting him through that. Seems like a good guy who made and honest mistake and I can live with that.

[mickey7mantle7]

The choice is yours. I think you'll get good karma for that. I don't think many would take this route. Props to you.

Props to Mickey7Mantle7 too, he didn't try to hide and did the right thing.

These types of people give me hope!

Thanks pitterchi...means a lot.

By the way, i have some RG3 RC cards if interested? No autos, but one is a black refractor #'d 299:)

Thanks and lmk if u need or want a link to my bucket:)

[Fraser9698]

Thanks Fraser...it's actually 550. Lol

Did u ever find out where the other cards were or just this one?

I have recieved back the two Durants and a Lebron Inkscription. The Wall and Lebron King James were sold by broncosmanning who was nice enough to cut a deal with me on those so we both didnt take total losses.

[Sutantoj]

We've been in contact and he bought the thing unknowingly and me getting it back would be essentially ripping him out of the money he paid for it. I will not screw an innocent guy over for a $500 card. Do I want it back? Yes....but I'm not about to do essentially the same thing that happened to me to get it. My mistake and he shouldn't have to pay for it. Now if he paid paypal, PP could reimburse his money after seeing a police report, but it wasn't.

Thanks to everyone who has send me leads/given me heads up on things that have popped up.

Bravo :)!:)!:)!

[mickey7mantle7]

If we worked something out then what would u have in mind? I can give this back to the LCS a day long and get my 475 back, but that wouldnt do you any good because he'd resell it regardless I'm sure and i'd be out a Lebron auto...so,

If we can come up with something so both sides are happy, I'd be more than happy to of course.

If you are fine without after everything then cool too....