2013 NFL HOF Class Finalists announced...

[garpike]

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee's 17 finalists for 2013:

Larry Allen (G/T)
Jerome Bettis (RB)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Curley Culp (DT/G)
Edward DeBartolo Jr. (owner)
Kevin Greene (LB)
Charles Haley (DE)
Art Modell (owner)
Jonathan Ogden (OT)
Bill Parcells (coach)
Andre Reed (WR)
Dave Robinson (LB)
Warren Sapp (DT)
Will Shields (G)
Michael Strahan (DE)
Aeneas Williams (CB)

So...who do think should get in this year??

:flex:

[guru]

Jerome Bettis, Cris Carter, Bill Parcells, Art Modell, Warren Sapp, Michael Strahan

That is all

[popmaz]

I think Shields, Ogden, Williams and Robinson should be elected. Not sure any of them will be though.

[deltapi1049]

This has to be Carter's year. Has to be. Better not get into a Blyleven situation.

[HBMC]

Awesome class with lots of qualified candidates. I would agree with any of them getting in.

[Ray27Ray52]

All of them are HOF worthy however they need to start with Carter and Brown. It is an absolute disgrace that they are not already there.

[popmaz]

All of them are HOF worthy however they need to start with Carter and Brown. It is an absolute disgrace that they are not already there.

While I agree with this statement, I would like to point out that the logjam at wr begins with Andre Reed. I believe all 3 are deserving, but I seem to be one of the few that would put Reed in before CC or Brown.

[TheFrenzy]

The most deserving is Larry Allen. One of the top 3-5 linemen in the history of the game.

Then it should be Modell, Parcells, and Carter. Four entry class.

[crabbygraphs]

Jerome Bettis (RB)
Cris Carter (WR)
Michael Strahan (DE)
Bill Parcells
Edward DeBartolo Jr.

[fert360]

No Terrell Davis :(:(:(:(. I agree with crabbygraphs though

[cc80man]

Carter not being in is a joke, when he retired he was #2 in all categories all time.

[Ray27Ray52]

While I agree with this statement, I would like to point out that the logjam at wr begins with Andre Reed. I believe all 3 are deserving, but I seem to be one of the few that would put Reed in before CC or Brown.

I can't really disagree with you. Andre was a beast. 950 catches for over 13000 yards. What more does a fella need to do to get some HOF love?

[dfr52]

The log jam at WR is terrible, at this point just put all 3 in this year so the voters can concentrate on other positions.

[addicted36]

Larry Allen (G/T), Tim Brown (WR), Cris Carter (WR), Art Modell (owner), and Bill Parcells (coach) get in.

[HBMC]

I can't really disagree with you. Andre was a beast. 950 catches for over 13000 yards. What more does a fella need to do to get some HOF love?

Play a different position, WR and Safety are two of the worst spots for HOF consideration.

[matt roberson]

Jerome Bettis (RB)
Cris Carter (WR)
Michael Strahan (DE)
Bill Parcells
Edward DeBartolo Jr.

^this...........

[Drdduet]

Curly Culp really needs to get in IMO. Strahan and Haley for sure, and as others have said Brown, Carter, and Reed need to get in--they deserve it. This year's list of candidates is legendary. I can see some very deserving candidates not getting in because of splitting of the votes.

[dfr52]

Allen and Ogden are near locks based on their career accolades and both played on Super Bowl winning teams. Strahan and Sapp are good possibilities as well. Outside the 2 OL I have no idea how the voters will go.

[dfr52]

Curly Culp really needs to get in IMO. Strahan and Haley for sure, and as others have said Brown, Carter, and Reed need to get in--they deserve it. This year's list of candidates is legendary. I can see some very deserving candidates not getting in because of splitting of the votes.

I agree on Culp, I hope the voters recognize his contributions as one of the first great nose tackles.

[dfr52]

Play a different position, WR and Safety are two of the worst spots for HOF consideration.

I'll add G and TE to that list as well.

[mrveggieman]

All of them are good canidates. Unfortunately once again a deserving canidate will be left off this year.

[panamamyers]

Allen has to get in.
I hate the Cowboys, but if he does not get in on the first ballot then we need new voters. He is up there with Hannah, Munoz and Matthews.

[Daddywolf79]

All of them are HOF worthy however they need to start with Carter and Brown. It is an absolute disgrace that they are not already there.

agreed! :)!

[bigmikeatl88]

Ogden
Allen
Debartelo
Carter
Sapp

[mmbtvs]

Larry Allen (G/T)
Cris Carter (WR)
Curley Culp (DT/G)
Edward DeBartolo Jr. (owner)
Michael Strahan (DE)

[dbrown]

Kevin Greene :)!

[FreeMan12406]

Play a different position, WR and Safety are two of the worst spots for HOF consideration.

All the punters and kickers shake their heads.

[ohiomike]

Locks
Larry Allen (G/T)
Jonathan Ogden (OT)
Dave Robinson (LB) (better of the two senior committee finalists)

Should be locks, but probably are 50/50 at best this year (all get in either this year or next IMO)
Jerome Bettis (RB)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Andre Reed (WR)
Will Shields (G)
Michael Strahan (DE)

[allday_vikes]

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee's 17 finalists for 2013:

Larry Allen (G/T)
Jerome Bettis (RB)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Curley Culp (DT/G)
Edward DeBartolo Jr. (owner)
Kevin Greene (LB)
Charles Haley (DE)
Art Modell (owner)
Jonathan Ogden (OT)
Bill Parcells (coach)
Andre Reed (WR)
Dave Robinson (LB)
Warren Sapp (DT)
Will Shields (G)
Michael Strahan (DE)
Aeneas Williams (CB)

So...who do think should get in this year??

:flex:

these are my pick

[88horsepower]

I don't see how Jonathan Ogden doesn't get in on the first try. The man was the single best left tackle in the NFL during his prime. Even during his down years he was better than 90% of the league's tackles. Larry Allen is a no-brainer as well. And, yes, the logjam at wide receiver is pathetic. Andre Reed should have gotten in years ago and the same could be said for Tim Brown and Cris Carter. Just insane how those three guys are still hanging around on the ballot as if they're not worthy of being enshrined. Reed was literally THE premier wide receiver in the AFC during his peak years when he and Jim Kelly were one of the hottest 1-2 punches in the league. Just makes ZERO sense that he's not in yet. As for Bettis, I thought he was a sure thing when he retired. Now he's on his third try and it seems he's a question mark every January when this conversation comes up.

[asujbl]

If Modell gets in then they are going to have to do his induction from a remote site. It won't be safe to do it in Canton.

[jusdukky]

Allen has to get in.
I hate the Cowboys, but if he does not get in on the first ballot then we need new voters. He is up there with Hannah, Munoz and Matthews.

Not arguing with your statement at all but Will Shields should be right there as well.

2/2 on making the final HOF list since becoming eligible.

Came off the bench the first game of his rookie year and went on from there to start 231 consecutive games.

12 Pro Bowls

9 time All Pro

Named to the 2000's All Decade Team

4 division titles and 6 playoff appearances for KC.

Walter Payton man of the year award.

Totally agree that the 3 WR's should get in as well.

[allday_vikes]

While I agree with this statement, I would like to point out that the logjam at wr begins with Andre Reed. I believe all 3 are deserving, but I seem to be one of the few that would put Reed in before CC or Brown.

The only thing everyone remembered Andre for was his fight against Deion Sanders. Wait, that's not even the right Andre.

Andre Reed was good but not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown, so he's way behind those two.

[ohiomike]

Hall will have to address the WR's next year if they don't this year. Marvin Harrison is about the only new worthy player eligible in 2014. No way does he go in before Brown-Carter-Reed. My guess is they ignore them again this year, and put all three in next year. And while I fully believe Harrison deserves a spot, it will be a slap in the "logjam trio's" face to put him in first time... he'll have to wait.

[popmaz]

The only thing everyone remembered Andre for was his fight against Deion Sanders. Wait, that's not even the right Andre.

Andre Reed was good but not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown, so he's way behind those two.

Now that is truly comical. "not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown"
Thanks! I really needed a good laugh today.

[allday_vikes]

Now that is truly comical. "not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown"
Thanks! I really needed a good laugh today.

You welcome, sometimes the funniest thing is the truth!:)!

[popmaz]

You welcome, sometimes the funniest thing is the truth!:)!

Yeah. Fortunatley for Andre Reed, this is not one of those times:)!

[BAMBAM]

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee's 17 finalists for 2013:

Larry Allen (G/T)
Jerome Bettis (RB)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Curley Culp (DT/G)
Edward DeBartolo Jr. (owner)
Kevin Greene (LB)
Charles Haley (DE)
Art Modell (owner)
Jonathan Ogden (OT)
Bill Parcells (coach)
Andre Reed (WR)
Dave Robinson (LB)
Warren Sapp (DT)
Will Shields (G)
Michael Strahan (DE)
Aeneas Williams (CB)

So...who do think should get in this year??

:flex:

Allen, Bettis, Carter, Reed, Ogden and maybe Andre Reed.... finally. Reed should have been in long ago. I'd like to see Tim Brown in but I'd be surprised if all three got in at once.


I don't see any way Strahan is first ballot worthy. Some good years, some not so good years and only one or two tremendous seasons. He didn't dominate throughout his career like the other 3 first ballot guys did.

I'd put Eddie DeBartolo in before Modell but Modell will probably get in since he passed recently.

The veterans committee will probably put in Curley Culp this time around.

[88horsepower]

You welcome, sometimes the funniest thing is the truth!:)!

Actually, I'm inclined to agree with you. If there's ever a case for a player who accumulated stats over the course of a long career but never had a stretch of true "greatness" at the WR position it might be Reed. Although I do think he was one of the best WR's of his time, a good argument could be made that he compiled great overall numbers due to longevity. He only had four 1,000-yard seasons and only once had double-digit TD totals. I'm still saying he's worthy of being enshrined, but he's way behind Brown and Carter. in terms of accomplishments. I think the thing that makes Reed more attractive is how much he showed up in the postseason as opposed to Brown and Carter. Of course, Reed got to the postseason quite a bit during his stretch run in Buffalo, but he also made many of those appearances count.

[88horsepower]

Yeah. Fortunatley for Andre Reed, this is not one of those times:)!

Just look at the numbers:

Reed: 4 seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Carter: 8 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Brown: 9 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving

Reed: 1 seasons with double-digit TDs
Carter: 6 seasons with double-digit TDs (led league 3 times)
Brown: 2 seasons with double-digit TDs

Reed: 0 seasons with 100 receptions
Carter: 2 seasons with 100+ receptions (led league one time)
Brown: 1 season with 100+ receptions

I think that says it all, man. Don't get me wrong, I love Andre Reed, but in terms of what he accomplished compared to Brown and Carter, he's behind them.

[BAMBAM]

The only thing everyone remembered Andre for was his fight against Deion Sanders. Wait, that's not even the right Andre.

Andre Reed was good but not anywhere near CC or Tim Brown, so he's way behind those two.

Glad you don't speak for everyone. You must not have watched too many Bills games if you believe that he's way behind Carter and Brown.

Only thing Carter had on Reed was he had better hands, IMO the best hands of the three. Reed earned the tough yards over the middle and very few could run after the catch like Reed did, certainly not Carter. Plus he played all his home games outdoors in Buffalo not a dome or sunny California. HUGE difference.

[HBMC]

I'll add G and TE to that list as well.

I agree as well. TE will be a little better with the current crop of guys still playing:

In:
Jason Witten
Tony Gonzalez

Maybe:
Antonio Gates

Could be if their careers are long:
Jimmy Graham
Rob Gronkowski

Guard is loaded with quality players too. So many guys eho should be in.

[popmaz]

Just look at the numbers:

Reed: 4 seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Carter: 8 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving
Brown: 9 straight seasons with 1,000+ yards receiving

Reed: 1 seasons with double-digit TDs
Carter: 6 seasons with double-digit TDs (led league 3 times)
Brown: 2 seasons with double-digit TDs

Reed: 0 seasons with 100 receptions
Carter: 2 seasons with 100+ receptions (led league one time)
Brown: 1 season with 100+ receptions

I think that says it all, man. Don't get me wrong, I love Andre Reed, but in terms of what he accomplished compared to Brown and Carter, he's behind them.
Reed:4 Super Bowl appearances
Carter and Brown Combined: 1
Now this is a fun stat and oddly enough the exact stat that kept Art Monk out of the HOF for so long.....
Career yards per reception
Brown 13.65
Carter 12.63
Reed 13.88
Keep in mind a few things.
1. I hate the Bills
2. I never said Carter andnor Brown may not be ahead of Reed, I just said it is not "far" ahead and it is only stats wise.
3. Reed always played big in the postseason, did he have more opportunitues? Maybe. But one would think that he helped create said opportunities.
4. And I cannot state this emphatically enough, I hated the 90' Bills! But I would take Andre Reed over Carter and Brown all day based on watching them all play.

[sd_navarre]

Would love to see this guy get in - very deserving.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z163/veasel21/Dave%20Robinson%20PC/001.jpg

[HBMC]

All the punters and kickers shake their heads.

I'm purposely ignoring them as there is one dedicated Kicker in the hall. Until the selection committees feel the need to include them, then there will be legitimate claims of them needing to be in. Until then, the argument is fruitless.

[NamesJay]

I can't imagine Sapp not being voted in on first ballot. But as a Tampa Bay fan I got to see him play every day - and he was a beast.

[Imac7065]

I'm purposely ignoring them as there is one dedicated Kicker in the hall. Until the selection committees feel the need to include them, then there will be legitimate claims of them needing to be in. Until then, the argument is fruitless.

I am a bit biased but Garo Yapremian more or less created the modern kicker. Before him (and another guy who flamed out) kickers were OL's or just the fattest guy on the team who had a decent leg. Garo created the "sepcialist" and is one of the resasons the FG post was moved to the back of the end zone.

For that revolution he should be in the HOF.. just my opinion though.

[panamamyers]

In my opinion, the most important stat to look at is the number of times you finished in the top 5-10 in yards per game. This stats is all relative to how much the rest of the league is passing, so you can't claim that the league is more pass-happy now.

Andre Reed has some explaining to do as to why he only finished in the top 10 three times in his career in that category. Never higher than 5th in the NFL. For his career, there are 71 receivers ahead of him. Obviously a lot of those are in more recent pass-happy times, but still...you got guys like Muhsin Muhammad ahead of him. You got guys like Mark Clayton ahead of him. Anthony Miller is ahead of him.

You can put a little bit of stock into longevity type stats, but at some point you needed to be one of the 2 or 3 best players at your position for a stretch of years.

Tim Brown finished in the top 10 five times. Top 5 three times.

Cris Carter finished top 10 four times, but never higher than 7th.
1993, he finished 7th, behind Anthony Miller, Andre Rison.
1995 he finished 7th behind such luminaries as Brett Perriman and Robert Brooks.

Let's look at Jerry Rice. He finished 1st in this category six different times. Obvious Hall of Famer.
Michael Irvin, six times in the top 10, four times in the top 2. Obvious Hall of Famer.
Randy Moss, eight times in the top 10. Seven times in the top 5. Obvious Hall of Famer
Terrell Owens, six times top 10, four times top 5. Obvious Hall of Famer.

Anquan Boldin a Hall of Famer to you guys? He has four top 10 finishes and three top 5 finishes. He already has more of a case than Andre Reed, but I don't think anyone mistakes Boldin for a Hall of Fame guy.

[popmaz]

Please do the math and let me know where the following players fell by your stat:
Art Monk
Charlie Joiner
John Stallworth
Wes Chandler
Mark Duper
Mark Clayton and Tony Martin
I am just curious. That is all. Thanks.

[dfr52]

Not arguing with your statement at all but Will Shields should be right there as well.

2/2 on making the final HOF list since becoming eligible.

Came off the bench the first game of his rookie year and went on from there to start 231 consecutive games.

12 Pro Bowls

9 time All Pro

Named to the 2000's All Decade Team

4 division titles and 6 playoff appearances for KC.

Walter Payton man of the year award.

Totally agree that the 3 WR's should get in as well.

According to profootballreference.com Shields was a 2 x 1st team All Pro.

[BAMBAM]

Maybe they'll open up a "Specialists Closet" in the Hall someday, not wing, closet and put the few players (Adam Vinatieri, maybe Ray Guy or Shane Lechler) that one could argue for in with Jan. I, along with many others, consider kickers and punters non-football players and rightly so when you watch 99% of them try to make a simple tackle but they do a play pretty important role in just about every football game each week.

All kidding aside, it is kind of weird that a position as critical to a game as punter doesn't have one representative in the Hall other than a guy like Sammy Baugh who was one of the greatest punters ever but is in for his arm.

[armyatc22]

These are who I think will get in this year:

Larry Allen (G/T)
Tim Brown (WR)
Cris Carter (WR)
Bill Parcells (coach)


Everyone is at least somewhat deserving but these should be locks

[Josh611]

Jerome Bettis (RB)
Cris Carter (WR)
Bill Parcells (coach)
Michael Strahan (DE)

[bearfield]

I can't really disagree with you. Andre was a beast. 950 catches for over 13000 yards. What more does a fella need to do to get some HOF love?

also needs to have some class. i live in the buffalo area, all it was with kelly, thomas, reed, and smith was, me me me me me.
1. i'll repeat this 1 more time, if i fought ALI 4 times and got beat 4 times, do i belong in the boxing HOF?
2. 3 TIME LOSERS GO TO JAIL FOR A LONG TIME, WHATS WITH PUTTING 4 TIME LOSERS IN THE HOF? and that includes levy, he didn't coach the team, they did what they damn well pleased.

[jusdukky]

According to profootballreference.com Shields was a 2 x 1st team All Pro.

Thanks for digging this info up. If you click the "fine print" it explains the all pro status and directs you to the following info below which is located below his stats. I took my info from an article about Shields and did not just make up a number.:)!


All-Pro Teams
Year Team Level Voters
1996 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1996 2nd Team All-Conf. UPI
1997 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
1999 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2001 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2002 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2002 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2003 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2003 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2003 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2003 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2004 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2004 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2005 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2005 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2006 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press

[bearfield]

I don't see how Jonathan Ogden doesn't get in on the first try. The man was the single best left tackle in the NFL during his prime. Even during his down years he was better than 90% of the league's tackles. Larry Allen is a no-brainer as well. And, yes, the logjam at wide receiver is pathetic. Andre Reed should have gotten in years ago and the same could be said for Tim Brown and Cris Carter. Just insane how those three guys are still hanging around on the ballot as if they're not worthy of being enshrined. Reed was literally THE premier wide receiver in the AFC during his peak years when he and Jim Kelly were one of the hottest 1-2 punches in the league. Just makes ZERO sense that he's not in yet. As for Bettis, I thought he was a sure thing when he retired. Now he's on his third try and it seems he's a question mark every January when this conversation comes up.

i suspect that there are some haters on the selection committee.

[BAMBAM]

Good thing some of the people in this thread don't have votes or some tremendous football players would be out in the cold because of their stats. Hopefully as time passes and the voters change they will continue to look at a player's career as more than just a bunch of numbers. You can't talk about the decade of the '90s without including in large part the Buffalo Bills and Andre Reed. Kelly, Thomas and Reed were the AFCs Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin during the 90's. Funny how their careers are looked at differently it seems because of one missed FG. (there's those stinkin' specialists again) Even with all the negativity surrounding those Bills for not winning it all, if 5 out of those 6 are in there is no reason for Reed to not make it 6 for 6.

[bearfield]

Thanks for digging this info up. If you click the "fine print" it explains the all pro status and directs you to the following info below which is located below his stats. I took my info from an article about Shields and did not just make up a number.:)!


All-Pro Teams
Year Team Level Voters
1996 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1996 2nd Team All-Conf. UPI
1997 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
1999 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2001 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2002 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2002 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2002 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2003 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2003 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
2003 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
2003 1st Team All-NFL Sporting News
2004 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2004 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2005 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
2005 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
2006 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press

maybe he didn't demonstrate enough after a tackle, like bruce smith, ray lewis, or that green guy. can't remember names, getting old.

[armyatc22]

Why is everyone saying Michael Strahan should be a 1st Ballot?

First off everyone knows Favre laid down for him BUT he is the single season sack record holder
He is only 5th all time in sacks
Only 7 probowls out of 20 years
NFL Def player of the year only once
NFC Def player of the year only twice

Yes he does have a ring and cohosts a show but those numbers don't scream 1st ballot HOF to me at all

[panamamyers]

Good thing some of the people in this thread don't have votes or some tremendous football players would be out in the cold because of their stats. Hopefully as time passes and the voters change they will continue to look at a player's career as more than just a bunch of numbers. You can't talk about the decade of the '90s without including in large part the Buffalo Bills and Andre Reed. Kelly, Thomas and Reed were the AFCs Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin during the 90's. Funny how their careers are looked at differently it seems because of one missed FG. (there's those stinkin' specialists again) Even with all the negativity surrounding those Bills for not winning it all, if 5 out of those 6 are in there is no reason for Reed to not make it 6 for 6.

Man, I sure hope the Hall of Fame does not look at it that way. Does Andre Reed belong in or not? Irvin had way better numbers as was discussed in my first post. Does not matter if Kelly and Thomas make it in. Does not matter if Amith, aAikman and Irvin make it in. Let's don't elect people because of relation. That's how we ended up with a guy like John Stallworth in there that should not even be in the Hall of the Very Good, much less Hall of Fame. Let's single out Andre Reed and look at if he was a Hall of Fame player. If he was, then he sure did not put up the statistics to back that claim up. Jimmy Smith, Drew Hill, Gary Clark among many others...all need to be in before Andre Reed.

[88horsepower]

Reed:4 Super Bowl appearances
Carter and Brown Combined: 1

This is a team stat. That's like saying Jim Plunkett is a better quarterback than Warren Moon since Plunkett had two Super Bowl appearances and Moon had zero.

Now this is a fun stat and oddly enough the exact stat that kept Art Monk out of the HOF for so long.....
Career yards per reception
Brown 13.65
Carter 12.63
Reed 13.88

No question, Reed made more "big plays" but I'm not sure that's the kind of stat that tips the scale for me. Overall, I think Carter and his 130 TDs along with both Brown and Carter's streak of consecutive 1,000 yard seasons does more for me than Reed's four 1,000 yard seasons scattered over the course of a 15 year career. Again, not saying Reed doesn't deserve to be in Canton. But I do think Brown and Carter are superior.

[popmaz]

Man, I sure hope the Hall of Fame does not look at it that way. Does Andre Reed belong in or not? Irvin had way better numbers as was discussed in my first post. Does not matter if Kelly and Thomas make it in. Does not matter if Amith, aAikman and Irvin make it in. Let's don't elect people because of relation. That's how we ended up with a guy like John Stallworth in there that should not even be in the Hall of the Very Good, much less Hall of Fame. Let's single out Andre Reed and look at if he was a Hall of Fame player. If he was, then he sure did not put up the statistics to back that claim up. Jimmy Smith, Drew Hill, Gary Clark among many others...all need to be in before Andre Reed.

If it is all about the stats that you compile, I cannot wait for the class that includes Ricky Watters and Vinny Testaverde. I also would not consider John Stallworth a player who should not even be in the Hall of very good as you call it. He did not have huge numbers, but most wr in the 70's did not. Just remember, as John Facenda said, "great players aren't always great, but they are great when they have to be"

[Imac7065]

Why is everyone saying Michael Strahan should be a 1st Ballot?

First off everyone knows Favre laid down for him BUT he is the single season sack record holder
He is only 5th all time in sacks
Only 7 probowls out of 20 years
NFL Def player of the year only once
NFC Def player of the year only twice

Yes he does have a ring and cohosts a show but those numbers don't scream 1st ballot HOF to me at all

To further your point.. Kevin Greene has more sacks and tackles (from the LB spot where it's harder to accumulate sacks)... not one person on here has Greene as a HOFer on their list it seems.

He was also a WCW wrestler before it was "cool" for athletes like Rodman, Tyson, and Karl Malone to jump in the ring lol

[dfr52]

To further your point.. Kevin Greene has more sacks and tackles (from the LB spot where it's harder to accumulate sacks)... not one person on here has Greene as a HOFer on their list it seems.

He was also a WCW wrestler before it was "cool" for athletes like Rodman, Tyson, and Karl Malone to jump in the ring lol

Besides Allen I'd love to see him in the HOF this year but I'm not sure the voters will see it that way. Greene was also a good player against the run and more than held his own in coverage.

[88horsepower]

To further your point.. Kevin Greene has more sacks and tackles (from the LB spot where it's harder to accumulate sacks)... not one person on here has Greene as a HOFer on their list it seems.

He was also a WCW wrestler before it was "cool" for athletes like Rodman, Tyson, and Karl Malone to jump in the ring lol

Many will argue that Kevin Greene was "only" a pass rusher and that he severely lacked in his ability to stop the run or cover against the pass. I'm not sure I completely agree with that senitment, but I've heard that argument from several people who watched him play, so there might be some credence to that.

[jusdukky]

maybe he didn't demonstrate enough after a tackle, like bruce smith, ray lewis, or that green guy. can't remember names, getting old.

He didn't demonstrate at all that I know of. He was an offensive lineman. Right Guard. Don't feel bad, I'm getting old too.:p

[allday_vikes]

Reed:4 Super Bowl appearances
Carter and Brown Combined: 1


LOL in that case, Charles Haley Should have been a first ballot HOFer!

Glad you don't speak for everyone. You must not have watched too many Bills games if you believe that he's way behind Carter and Brown.

Only thing Carter had on Reed was he had better hands, IMO the best hands of the three. Reed earned the tough yards over the middle and very few could run after the catch like Reed did, certainly not Carter. Plus he played all his home games outdoors in Buffalo not a dome or sunny California. HUGE difference.

Sorry Reed was good but he can't compare to Carter and Brown!

[dfr52]

Many will argue that Kevin Greene was "only" a pass rusher and that he severely lacked in his ability to stop the run or cover against the pass. I'm not sure I completely agree with that senitment, but I've heard that argument from several people who watched him play, so there might be some credence to that.

Late in his career he did transition into more of a pure pass rusher but that also had to do w/ teams paying more for pass rushers and his own "love" of getting sacks.

[88horsepower]

Just remember, as John Facenda said, "great players aren't always great, but they are great when they have to be"

Well, if that quote holds water then Andre Reed likely gets the shaft. In four Super Bowls he only once broke 100 yards and in the other three games he posted 62, 34, and 75 yards. He also never scored once in a Super Bowl. Not exactly great when he had to be.

[rtcrules]

Curley Culp (DT/G) and Dave Robinson (LB) are Vet Commitee guys and Id give them the ok. My modern picks would be:
Andre Reed (WR) - All the recievers are near equal and all belong in but he's waited the longest and this logjam at WR needs to start getting cleared out.
Bill Parcells (coach) - Think he's finally retired.
Jerome Bettis (RB) - Only non-reciever skill position player and wouldnt surprise me if he made it to the final 5.
Michael Strahan (DE) - Guess of modern D pick.
Will Shields (G) - An O-Lineman will make it and all deserve it so this is just a guess.

[Imac7065]

To those calling Kevin Greene "just a pass rusher"...

Ok.. lets go with this (even though he also had nearly 700 career tackles before 100 tackle seasons were the norm)

Jason Taylor...pass rushing DE/LB and future HOFer
Michael Strahan..pass rushing DE and future HOFer
Chris Dolmen... pass rushing DE and HOFer
Richard Dent...pass rushing DE and HOFer
Derrick Thomas..pass rushing LB and HOFer
John Randle..pass rushing DE.. and HOFer

What do all these guys have in common? The closest any come to Greene in career sacks is Doleman with 150.5... Greene had 160 (only fewer than Reggie White and Bruce Smith)

[lambeauleap87]

Honestly, do any of those guys not deserve to be in the Hall?

[88horsepower]

Honestly, do any of those guys not deserve to be in the Hall?

I agree. I think all of them should someday get inducted. The guy who will probably get snubbed and has hardly been in any conversations is Aeneas Williams. Guy was an absolute force on a crappy team for over a decade. 55 career INTs, 8 Pro Bowls at two different positions. Total package as a defensive player and he gets almost no love.

[pjcowboy]

WR take longer to get in. Look at the history of WR getting in in the first few years of eligibility. Tim Brown was an All Pro at punt returner also.

Larry Allen and Jonathan Ogden are locks.
Haley should already be in! what a joke are you kidding me
Sapp is possibly not even a HOFer
Strahan won't get in this year but will be in
Carter should be in and until he does Brown and Reed have no chance
It might be Parcells and Modell year to get in

[lambeauleap87]

I agree. I think all of them should someday get inducted. The guy who will probably get snubbed and has hardly been in any conversations is Aeneas Williams. Guy was an absolute force on a crappy team for over a decade. 55 career INTs, 8 Pro Bowls at two different positions. Total package as a defensive player and he gets almost no love.

At first, I wasn't sure Williams should be in...but then I looked at his stats, but the 8 Pro Bowls and three All-Pro selections said he wasn't undeserving.

[Imac7065]

just to stir pot a lil... how many names on this list DID NOT use PED's in everyone's opinion? lol

[MrSnyder]

I think I'm smelling back-to-back lineman years!

[88horsepower]

WR take longer to get in. Look at the history of WR getting in in the first few years of eligibility.

Since 1980 only three have gotten in on the first try. Paul Warfield, Steve Largent and Jerry Rice.

[popmaz]

Well, if that quote holds water then Andre Reed likely gets the shaft. In four Super Bowls he only once broke 100 yards and in the other three games he posted 62, 34, and 75 yards. He also never scored once in a Super Bowl. Not exactly great when he had to be.

That quote was meant in regards to one guys post about Stallworth being undeserving. But if you want to take it for Reed, go ahead, just make sure you take it for Carter and Brown as well, then all 3 are on the outside looking in again.

[ajw9356]

Order of how I'd personally vote, don't think there's a bad vote in the lot, someone's always going to left off:
1) Jerome Bettis (RB)
2) Larry Allen (G/T)
3) Will Shields (G)
4) Cris Carter (WR)
5) Andre Reed (WR)
6) Jonathan Ogden (OT)
7) Warren Sapp (DT)
8) Tim Brown (WR)

[raiders4lyf]

All of them are HOF worthy however they need to start with Carter and Brown. It is an absolute disgrace that they are not already there.

Very much agreed. Tim and Carter are FOR SURE first ballots in my opinion

[panamamyers]

If it is all about the stats that you compile, I cannot wait for the class that includes Ricky Watters and Vinny Testaverde. I also would not consider John Stallworth a player who should not even be in the Hall of very good as you call it. He did not have huge numbers, but most wr in the 70's did not. Just remember, as John Facenda said, "great players aren't always great, but they are great when they have to be"

Stallworth should not be in. That was a Steelers bias pick there.
And go back and read my original post. I am arguing AGAINST compiled stats. I am not going to type the whole message over again here.

Ricky Watters only once finished above 7th in rushing yards per game. He finished top 5 in yards from scrimmage five times and finished first in that stat once. Nothing about that screams HOF to me.

Vinny Testaverde only finished top 5 in passer rating twice in 20 years. Passing yards per game, only finished top 5 once. No way he is HOF caliber.

If Andre Reed gets in, he should be behind Gary Clark and Drew Hill. It's not the Hall of Fame for guys on Super Bowl teams. It's the ultimate individual honor. Go check their stats, and look at Andre Reed's stats as far as yards per game. You would start to wonder why he is even being mentioned as a possible. Jimmy Smith, Keenan McCardell, Ed McCaffrey, Rod Smith...all just as deserving if not more in most cases.

[popmaz]

Stallworth should not be in. That was a Steelers bias pick there.
And go back and read my original post. I am arguing AGAINST compiled stats. I am not going to type the whole message over again here.

Ricky Watters only once finished above 7th in rushing yards per game. He finished top 5 in yards from scrimmage five times and finished first in that stat once. Nothing about that screams HOF to me.

Vinny Testaverde only finished top 5 in passer rating twice in 20 years. Passing yards per game, only finished top 5 once. No way he is HOF caliber.

If Andre Reed gets in, he should be behind Gary Clark and Drew Hill. It's not the Hall of Fame for guys on Super Bowl teams. It's the ultimate individual honor. Go check their stats, and look at Andre Reed's stats as far as yards per game. You would start to wonder why he is even being mentioned as a possible. Jimmy Smith, Keenan McCardell, Ed McCaffrey, Rod Smith...all just as deserving if not more in most cases.

Ignorance is bliss my friend.
You are arguing "against compiling stats" but you are using stats to say who should be in. It is not even worth my time anymore.
Ignorance is bliss.

[panamamyers]

By using the term compiling, the general insinuation is that you mean over the course of a career.
Give me a guy that has 6 years of 1,500 yards receiving and then retires over a guy that has 12 seasons of 750 yards.
Reed has longevity, but never a truly elite guy.