LEBRON vs. KOBE

[SportsItUpCards]

I came across this and found it very interesting.... I must say, I haven't checked these stats myself, too lazy to check. Is this correct? :eek:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2ltnamc.png

[bdoody42]

They are correct I believe.

[ivecenanuff]

only thig kobe has on lebron is 3 rings, thanks to the diesel of course

[Prospectorsadvantage]

only thig kobe has on lebron is 3 rings, thanks to the diesel of course

Lol. Come on.


Lebron and Kobe are both great players in their own rights. But saying Kobe has his rings because of the disel is like saying Lebron has his 1 ring because of Wade.

[Ultimatewarrick]

kobe was also a bench player so his points totals are unfair imo

[ivecenanuff]

Lol. Come on.


Lebron and Kobe are both great players in their own rights. But saying Kobe has his rings because of the disel is like saying Lebron has his 1 ring because of Wade.

shaq was the mvps, wade wasnt the mvp

[SportsItUpCards]

Lol. Come on.


Lebron and Kobe are both great players in their own rights. But saying Kobe has his rings because of the disel is like saying Lebron has his 1 ring because of Wade.

I'm pretending to be a human scale right now, and I have Wade on my left hand, and Shaq on the right, and let me tell ya... Shaq went all the way down!!! As in down because he holds the most weight! :)!

IMO, and i'm sure to many, Shaq helped Kobe and Wade get their rings. By the time he made it to the Cavs, he was already going down hill. Otherwise James would have another one or two by now.

[bdoody42]

kobe was also a bench player so his points totals are unfair imo

There was a reason he was on the bench at that time. If he was better than the guys in front of him he would have played more.

[SportsItUpCards]

There was a reason he was on the bench at that time. If he was better than the guys in front of him he would have played more.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! hahaha jk :D

But true.

[cbuskstwar]

The only thing we really know is that niether of them won it alone, but one of these guys did quit on his team in the playoffs.

[1eyed_jack]

Let's not forget Kobe's first two seasons he came off the bench.

Lebron's first season
39.5 minutes a game
Lebron's second season
42.4 minutes a game


Kobe's first season
15.5 minutes a game
Kobe's second season
26 minutes a game

ALSO Kobe's 3rd season was a lockout season where they only played 50 games.

Basically the stat in the OP is irrelevant because of other circumstances I pointed out.

[SportsItUpCards]

Let's not forget Kobe's first two seasons he came off the bench.

Lebron's first season
39.5 minutes a game
Lebron's second season
42.4 minutes a game


Kobe's first season
15.5 minutes a game
Kobe's second season
26 minutes a game

ALSO Kobe's 3rd season was a lockout season where they only played 50 games.

Basically the stat in the OP is irrelevant because of other circumstances I pointed out.

But when we really look at it, do they take all these things you mentioned into consideration when deceiding who holds records? Meaning, take the scoring record for example... do they take into consideration how many years a player played for in order to deceide who's king of scoring?

[bmf]

I came across this and found it very interesting.... I must say, I haven't checked these stats myself, too lazy to check. Is this correct? :eek:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2ltnamc.png

lmfao! how convenient to leave out the ring count

[bmf]

p.s. and don't forget lebron's olympic bronze medal. kobe was never good enough to land one of those

[1eyed_jack]

But when we really look at it, do they take all these things you mentioned into consideration when deceiding who holds records? Meaning, take the scoring record for example... do they take into consideration how many years a player played for in order to deceide who's king of scoring?

They don't, but they also don't take into consideration how long a player played for. So why compare them both at the age of 28? Kobe isn't 28 anymore.

Lebron doesn't need to outdo Kobe by landmarks of age in their career, he needs to outdo him at the end of his career. Lebron might not even play 17 seasons, let alone be as productive as Kobe has been this late in his career.

Let's compare Lebron to Kobe right now, rather than at the age of 28 because that's what matters.

So basically

Points
Kobe 31481
Lebron 20982

Assists
Kobe 5862
Lebron 5275

Rebounds
Kobe 6549
Lebron 5529

Steals
Kobe 1820
Lebron 1319

MVP's
Kobe 1
Lebron 3

Championships
Kobe 5
Lebron 1

Those are the numbers that matter.

[bdoody42]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! hahaha jk :D

But true.

Just stating the reason to why Kobe didnt get at much playing time as James early on.

[EMD34]

Lol. Come on.


Lebron and Kobe are both great players in their own rights. But saying Kobe has his rings because of the disel is like saying Lebron has his 1 ring because of Wade.

Actually it's nothing like that. Shaq was the best player on that team, Wade was not.

[Kingofkings1281]

Why do people feel it's necessary to take something away from Kobe when talking about LeBron? Both are once in a lifetime players.

[SportsItUpCards]

They don't, but they also don't take into consideration how long a player played for. So why compare them both at the age of 28? Kobe isn't 28 anymore.

Lebron doesn't need to outdo Kobe by landmarks of age in their career, he needs to outdo him at the end of his career. Lebron might not even play 17 seasons, let alone be as productive as Kobe has been this late in his career.

Let's compare Lebron to Kobe right now, rather than at the age of 28 because that's what matters.

So basically

Points
Kobe 31481
Lebron 20982

Assists
Kobe 5862
Lebron 5275

Rebounds
Kobe 6549
Lebron 5529

Steals
Kobe 1820
Lebron 1319

MVP's
Kobe 1
Lebron 3

Championships
Kobe 5
Lebron 1

Those are the numbers that matter.

Well yeah, you're right, there's no need to compare tham at 28, because they're still both playing, and only when it's all said and done will we have all the numbers. Just thought it was very interesting and wanted to share it.

[MikeMamba]

Show me the Finals stats please.

[kobe824]

When Kobe and Garnett came into the league HS players were just starting to come in the league and didn't get the type of playing time that the later players did. It was because the development of guys like Kobe and Garnett that made it possible for player like Lebron and DH12 to get to start immediately. Also Lebron got drafted to the worse team in the league and was the only marketable thing they had. Kobe was drafted to a playoff ready team and already had an AS in Eddie Jones at his position.

[Dwade Collector]

Honestly, both guys are AMAZING players that will probably be placed in the Top 10 NBA players of all-time. However, there should be no doubt in anyones mind that LeBron is a much better all-around player than Kobe. Period.

Kobe is an AMAZING scorer/great defender but LeBron is a LEGENDARY team leader...... which is much more important in my books

[patchgenie]

how many rings did lebron have at that age;)

[SportsItUpCards]

how many rings did lebron have at that age;)

7!!!!!!! :flex: :D

[alexcampos]

Show me the Finals stats please.

I think this is supposed to be a comparison based only on INDIVIDUAL accomplishments.

Winning championships has NEVER been about the individual.

[1eyed_jack]

I think what it comes down to is Kobe is a legendary player and Lebron is right at that doorstep.

The reason I'm not ready to call Lebron a top 10 player isn't because he's not good enough, it's because he hasn't played long enough. Longevity is part of being a legendary player. If Lebron got injured today and never played again he would not be a top 10 all-time player and certainly wouldn't even be comparable to Kobe.

Kobe has reached that level where he's played a long time and at a consistently remarkable level. Lebron is certainly the best in the business right now and has potential to be a top 5 all-time player, but I'm not ready to have that discussion in his 10th season. Let's talk in his 15th or 16th season and see how he's been doing

[Dwade Collector]

This post will probably cause a riot but whatever LOL :)

LeBron's Cavs have been contenders for most of his stay in Cleveland. Hell, they even made it to the finals in 2007 without guys like Wade or Chris Bosh. Keep in mind that Kobe's Lakers crumbled in 2005 after the Shaq trade....... plus Kobe had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. I mean, they should have at least had a .500 season instead of going 34-48 considering they had Kobe in his prime on that team.......

Once again, it comes down to LeBron being an all-around leader vs Kobe (an "individual" player/scorer)

By the way, this post is my opinion. I am a fan of both players, this post is completely unbiased...

[murrke03]

Lol at Kobe fans saying his totals aren't fair to compare because he didn't play much the first two years.

There is a reason he didn't get the minutes. He wasn't good enough yet. But just forget that.

Kobe is clearly the greater player overall but because of the longevity right now.

But as the ops post is about. Lebron is the better player when you compare the same amount of time. (Lebrons first 9 years vs. Kobe first 9 years.)

I also think Lebron wins in prime vs prime. But that's probably more debatable. That would be an interesting poll though.

[Hbkhbk]

Here is another stat: Kobe won championships in two different jersey numbers (#8 and #24). Lebron couldn't win it when he was wearing #23. Even the almighty MJ couldn't win it when he was wearing #45.

Go at it guys =)

[murrke03]

Here is another stat: Kobe won championships in two different jersey numbers (#8 and #24). Lebron couldn't win it when he was wearing #23. Even the almighty MJ couldn't win it when he was wearing #45.

Go at it guys =)

Is this a hobby kings username?

Haha

[bmf]

Show me the Finals stats please.

nah, why include that? only include the stuff that favors lebron and leave the rest out! :)! :rolleyes:

[bmf]

This post will probably cause a riot but whatever LOL :)

LeBron's Cavs have been contenders for most of his stay in Cleveland. Hell, they even made it to the finals in 2007 without guys like Wade or Chris Bosh. Keep in mind that Kobe's Lakers crumbled in 2005 after the Shaq trade....... plus Kobe had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. I mean, they should have at least had a .500 season instead of going 34-48 considering they had Kobe in his prime on that team.......

Once again, it comes down to LeBron being an all-around leader vs Kobe (an "individual" player/scorer)

By the way, this post is my opinion. I am a fan of both players, this post is completely unbiased...

omfg..........bwhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! some of the sh*t people say here is funny as hellz!

[mrlaker]

Look, I think Lebron right now is better than kobe ever was, and I think Lebron will go down as the better player historically (if he continues on this path), but the thing posted in the OP as a means of backing lebron in the argument of who is the greater player is useless.

[murrke03]

nah, why include that? only include the stuff that favors lebron and leave the rest out! :)! :rolleyes:

Like Kobe fans trying to say that we should ignore the first two years.

And although I think championships should be noted last time I checked what was listed was heavily single player stats.

[1eyed_jack]

Like Kobe fans trying to say that we should ignore the first two years.

And although I think championships should be noted last time I checked what was listed was heavily single player stats.

I don't think anyone's saying to ignore them, I think we're just saying it's a skewed stat.

Like how about we compare individual numbers in seasons when they won a championship?

obviously that would be slanted to Kobe.

You should make that prime vs prime poll, see how that goes

[tristan20]

The reason why Kobe fans hate Lebron is because Lebron is the only true threat to Kobe's accomplishments. And Lebron is doing it at a beast pace.

End of story

[Prospectorsadvantage]

omfg..........bwhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! some of the sh*t people say here is funny as hellz!

Lol. Yup. I might be a lakers fan and love Kobe but I recognize lebrons talents and greatness too. There is a reason heat fans and lebron fans compare to Kobe, they know Kobe is a measuring stick. People forget how tough the west was. The spurs had their own little dynasty run. Just ask
Lebron how he faired against them. Every strong team has had two superstars. Remember prior to coming to the heat, lebron was getting a reputation do not being clutch. Does anyone remember all the debates about how
Wade should always take the last shot because
Lebron didn't have it in him? Yup guess not.

[1eyed_jack]

The reason why Kobe fans hate Lebron is because Lebron is the only true threat to Kobe's accomplishments. And Lebron is doing it at a beast pace.

End of story


And why do Lebron fans hate Kobe?

[murrke03]

I don't think anyone's saying to ignore them, I think we're just saying it's a skewed stat.

Like how about we compare individual numbers in seasons when they won a championship?

obviously that would be slanted to Kobe.

You should make that prime vs prime poll, see how that goes

That's great. But championships are also a skewed stat. Yet every laker fan is trying to use that card.

So it seems as if Kobe fans are trying to 'slant' the numbers too. Guess it comes down to opinion.

[murrke03]

And why do Lebron fans hate Kobe?

They don't.

[Prospectorsadvantage]

The reason why Kobe fans hate Lebron is because Lebron is the only true threat to Kobe's accomplishments. And Lebron is doing it at a beast pace.

End of story


I rarely see Kobe fans attack lebron here. Most of the time it starts with a post such as the original thread starter posted.

[IamRalpho]

Kobe Bryant really has never won an MVP?

WTF!

[1eyed_jack]

That's great. But championships are also a skewed stat. Yet every laker fan is trying to use that card.

So it seems as if Kobe fans are trying to 'slant' the numbers too. Guess it comes down to opinion.

It is opinion. And there was ridiculous stats out there. I think I remember once when Henry Abbott of ESPN did some article about Kobe not being clutch.

I don't remember the exact parameters he used, but it was something like down by 2 or 3 with under 6 seconds left.

And the numbers were pretty bad.

But then someone else did some crunching and if you extended the 6 seconds left to 10 and changed being down 2 or 3 to include tie games the numbers were much better.

Statistics aren't impartial unfortunately because you can come up with stats to support anything really.

Not speaking to you personally, just speaking generally.


It's kind of like how journalism is supposed to be unbiased, but writers often show clear bias based on quotes they choose to use and quotes they leave on the table.

[1eyed_jack]

Kobe Bryant really has never won an MVP?

WTF!

Not in his first several seasons.

That number only goes up through like 10 seasons for Kobe

[tristan20]

And why do Lebron fans hate Kobe?

No one hate's kobe, they hate how exaggerated his fans get, even when they know he isn't a good leader and is the reason why they lost a few games.
Also how he can do no wrong.

"The team has been horrible, but Kobe has been amazing"
When they are winning, its Kobe. When they are losing its Howard and Nash. SML

With all the talent on that team its a shame they have to wait until the very last week of the regular season to know if they can even qualify for playoffs. And pray the other team loses.

It shouldn't come down to that. Oh wait that's not Kobe's fault :)!

[1eyed_jack]

No one hate's kobe, they hate how exaggerated his fans get, even when they know he isn't a good leader and is the reason why they lost a few games.
Also how he can do no wrong.

When they are winning, its Kobe. When they are losing its Howard and Nash.

With all the talent on that team its a shame they have to wait until the very last week of the regular season to know if they can even qualify for playoffs. And pray the other team loses.

It shouldn't come down to that. Oh wait that's not Kobe's fault :)!

Again, I'm not going to get into it because it's getting redundant, but no, I don't know Kobe isn't a good leader because I don't think it's true.

I think that's a very ignorant opinion.

[murrke03]

Again, I'm not going to get into it because it's getting redundant, but no, I don't know Kobe isn't a good leader because I don't think it's true.

I think that's a very ignorant opinion.

Is Kobe at fault for the poor season the lakers have had?

[1eyed_jack]

Is Kobe at fault for the poor season the lakers have had?

No, not at all.

EDIT: That's not to say he hasn't had bad games, but as a whole, no I don't know how he could be blamed as the reason the Lakers are fighting to even make the playoffs

[tristan20]

Again, I'm not going to get into it because it's getting redundant, but no, I don't know Kobe isn't a good leader because I don't think it's true.

I think that's a very ignorant opinion.

How is it ignorant? A leader makes his teammates better. Kobe doesn't do that. Sorry but its the truth.

[murrke03]

No, not at all.

EDIT: That's not to say he hasn't had bad games, but as a whole, no I don't know how he could be blamed as the reason the Lakers are fighting to even make the playoffs

Lol. Seriously?

[1eyed_jack]

Lol. Seriously?

I think there are many reasons the Lakers have struggled.

Injuries, coaching issues, chemistry issues at times, but to say Kobe is THE reason for their struggles I think is off base.

[murrke03]

I think there are many reasons the Lakers have struggled.

Injuries, coaching issues, chemistry issues at times, but to say Kobe is THE reason for their struggles I think is off base.

Notice that wasn't the question. So are you changing your answer?

[1eyed_jack]

You asked if Kobe is to blame for the Lakers poor season.

My answer is no. I didn't change the question

[Burt-Reynolds]

gee, i hope this thread at least ends in murrke getting suspended again like the last one, because that would be the only redeeming thing that could come out this soon to be 30 page clusterf##k, lmfaooooooooooooooo.

really, let me go ahead and sum this thread up in one easy post before it really gets started. these threads are the ultimate merry go round. 5 or 6 particular people will argue with each other around in circles using stats and quotes and info that will be spun to how they want it to sound, then the other person will pick it apart and turn it into one hundred questions to the other person, then the other person will argue back in questions x infinity.

then a few random people will make some comments for one side of the fence or the other that will be ignored and washed out by the 6 main guys going that have been going round in circles at each other for the past 8 days ad nauseam. with the end result being 20+ pages of said 5 or 6 members having spent another week of their lives (what little ones they have) being wasted arguing a argument that will have no end and no winners.

so since i just summed this whole dumba$$ thread into 2 pages how bout you guys end it now and go do something productive with your lives? i know it will never happen but thought it was worth a try anyway.

btw this is aimed to both the lebron and kobe fans in this thread.

[murrke03]

You asked if Kobe is to blame for the Lakers poor season.

My answer is no. I didn't change the question

I asked if Kobe is at fault?

You said 'no not at all.'

Is that correct? Or did you not mean what you wrote?

[1eyed_jack]

I asked if Kobe is at fault?

You said 'no not at all.'

Is that correct? Or did you not mean what you wrote?

OK, clarify your question.

Are you asking if Kobe is the only one to blame, most to blame, partly to blame?

[murrke03]

OK, clarify your question.

Are you asking if Kobe is the only one to blame, most to blame, partly to blame?

I said at fault. That could be a wide variety of things.

You answered it by saying 'no not at all'. Is that your position?

[bmf]

Like Kobe fans trying to say that we should ignore the first two years.

no it's not at all like that. but if it is to you that is so awesome.

[bmf]

The reason why Kobe fans hate Lebron is because Lebron is the only true threat to Kobe's accomplishments. And Lebron is doing it at a beast pace.

End of story

i don't know a single kobe fan who hates lebron. i don't think kobe fans even think about lebron much. these threads are generally about lebron hype, so some kobe fans chime in because it gets tiresome. this thread is a good example. but you wouldn't know about lebron hype, would you? :rolleyes:

[suki24]

yawn let me know when Lebron catches Kobe in championships

[SportsItUpCards]

yawn let me know when Lebron catches Kobe in championships

I will! Matter of fact, i'm subscribing to this thread so I can come back and give you what you want :)!

It really won't be that long... already, at the end of this season he'll have two, so that's only 3 more to go right there. Then comes Jordan's six next.

I call 7 rings when it's all said and done. So i'll see you a few years from now. Going to hit sub right now!

[Imac7065]

There was a reason he was on the bench at that time. If he was better than the guys in front of him he would have played more.

Eddie Jones and Nick Van Axel.... they were AWESOME haha

[Ultimatewarrick]

I will! Matter of fact, i'm subscribing to this thread so I can come back and give you what you want :)!

It really won't be that long... already, at the end of this season he'll have two, so that's only 3 more to go right there. Then comes Jordan's six next.

I call 7 rings when it's all said and done. So i'll see you a few years from now. Going to hit sub right now!

knicks are beating the heat this year

[detroitlions]

Lol at all these people talking about rings, please after the playoffs lebron will have the same amount of finals MVP.

[ivecenanuff]

knicks are beating the heat this year

hahahhahahaha keep dreaming

[Imac7065]

btw... Lebron passed 21,000 points tonight

[ivecenanuff]

carmelo will alwase be in lebrons shadow, aka mr. first round exit

[ivecenanuff]

btw... Lebron passed 21,000 points tonight

really? i coulda swore he just passed 20,000 recently, man hes overrated!

[Imac7065]

really? i coulda swore he just passed 20,000 recently, man hes overrated!

yup.. did it about 3-4 months ago I believe.

[bmf]

I rarely see Kobe fans attack lebron here. Most of the time it starts with a post such as the original thread starter posted.

bingo!!!!!!!!

[bmf]

really? i coulda swore he just passed 20,000 recently, man hes overrated!

lebron is awesome. but MJ and i will take kobe

[knicks_please]

i'm pretty pumped that this thread exists! (SARCASM)

[suki24]

I will! Matter of fact, i'm subscribing to this thread so I can come back and give you what you want :)!

It really won't be that long... already, at the end of this season he'll have two, so that's only 3 more to go right there. Then comes Jordan's six next.

I call 7 rings when it's all said and done. So i'll see you a few years from now. Going to hit sub right now!

You forgot to say LeBron will become the best player of all time.

[bmf]

I call 7 rings when it's all said and done. So i'll see you a few years from now.

i take it math is not your thing

[knicks_please]

i take it math is not your thing

nah bro you didn't hear? lebron is sooooo good, and definitely cool enough, that they're giving him 6 for the price of 1 this year. they're just going to not play for the next 10 years actually, and go ahead and give them to lebron right now...

[bmf]

nah bro you didn't hear? lebron is sooooo good, and definitely cool enough, that they're giving him 6 for the price of 1 this year. they're just going to not play for the next 10 years actually, and go ahead and give them to lebron right now...

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SportsItUpCards]

Yeah, this is my first ever comparison thread... and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't run into the picture in the OP. I found it shocking, and just wanted to share it. I could care less what Kobe does... he's a great player, yes, but I know Lebron will pass him by 100 miles when it's all said and done. I donnot hate Kobe, there's no reason to. But I do see a lot of Kobe fans always hating on Lebron. Why is that?

As far as i'm concerned, Kobe is really damaging whatever legacy he had, and will only get worse if he goes on without getting another ring. But I really could care less. It's just funny how many Lebron haters there are. I know Lebron will be on beast mode for a very long time to come, and will leave a lot of the great ones in the dust. Time will tell this fact. ;)

[knicks_please]

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!

have you SEEN him dunk? seriously...its so cool and good and also cool. i swear. he like, jumps (he's really good at jumping btw, like really good) - and then he throws the ball in the circle basket thing...there's a name for that but i forget. anyways i love lebron. he's the best. GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bmf]

Yeah, this is my first ever comparison thread... and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't run into the picture in the OP. I found it shocking, and just wanted to share it. I could care less what Kobe does... he's a great player, yes, but I know Lebron will pass him by 100 miles when it's all said and done. I donnot hate Kobe, there's no reason to. But I do see a lot of Kobe fans always hating on Lebron. Why is that?

As far as i'm concerned, Kobe is really damaging whatever legacy he had, and will only get worse if he goes on without getting another ring. But I really could care less. It's just funny how many Lebron haters there are. I know Lebron will be on beast mode for a very long time to come, and will leave a lot of the great ones in the dust. Time will tell this fact. ;)

yeah his legacy is crap now. 30k point club, just passed wilt on all-time list, putting up numbers like he was 10 years younger, etc. kobe, please hang it up today before your legacy is completely worthless!

this thread is just ridiculous

[Kosmo Kards]

I think LeBron will only end up with 4 rings, but most people will rank him ahead of Kobe.

[bmf]

I think LeBron will only end up with 4 rings, but most people will rank him ahead of Kobe.

well i guess you'll see us in a year then

[SportsItUpCards]

yeah his legacy is crap now. 30k point club, just passed wilt on all-time list, putting up numbers like he was 10 years younger, etc. kobe, please hang it up today before your legacy is completely worthless!

this thread is just ridiculous

It's ok man, you have every right to be worried about what Lebron will do to Kobe's career... it's ok, they're only cards. Don't spend so much on them, and you won't have to worry if they'll go down lol smh

At the end of the day, it is what it is... what can we do? Go knock on Lebron's door and tell him, mr. Lebron, can you please, pleeeeease don't destroy Kobe's legacy? Please!? I have a lot invested in his cards, and if you leave him behind in the dust, my cards will be worth nothing. lol.... SMH

Don't blame me, OR Lebron's skills. It is what it is. Simple as that.

I'll bump this thread for you when the time is right, hope you'll be around to see it, I will.

[knicks_please]

the only thing bringing kobes card values down is panini...not lebron...

[Cades]

after all is said and done, both will be top players of all time, can't ask for more then that

[tristan20]

I think LeBron will only end up with 4 rings, but most people will rank him ahead of Kobe.

Yeah same for Jordan, Horry has more rings so he should be considered above Jordan.

You just proved how overrated the ring excuse is.

Finals MVPs, now that's how you know who really carried the team.

Jordan 6 Horry 0

[Prospectorsadvantage]

It's ok man, you have every right to be worried about what Lebron will do to Kobe's career... it's ok, they're only cards. Don't spend so much on them, and you won't have to worry if they'll go down lol smh

At the end of the day, it is what it is... what can we do? Go knock on Lebron's door and tell him, mr. Lebron, can you please, pleeeeease don't destroy Kobe's legacy? Please!? I have a lot invested in his cards, and if you leave him behind in the dust, my cards will be worth nothing. lol.... SMH

Don't blame me, OR Lebron's skills. It is what it is. Simple as that.

I'll bump this thread for you when the time is right, hope you'll be around to see it, I will.


How is lebron going to "destroy" Kobe's legacy? That's like saying if Kobe somehow got 7 rings he would destroy Jordan's legacy. It's ignorant and shows how stupid your comments are.

No player destroys another's legacy. Kobe has his own, lebron will have his own etc etc

[SportsItUpCards]

the only thing bringing kobes card values down is panini...not lebron...

If you say so...

And who brought Jordan autograph values down from the 90's prices? UPPER DECK!

The market as a whole for most players is watered down when it comes to autographs, what's your point?

If there was no Jordan, who's prices would be through the roof? Exactly! Bird, Magic and Erving. Then came Jordan, right? Well, now comes Lebron. So what will happen to Kobe prices when most people flock to Lebron? Exactly! The natural cycle of things. It's ok, you'll learn, you still have pleanty of time to go in this hobby, and life in general... no rush. :)!

It is what it is. I don't make the rules. They are what they are.

[knicks_please]

Yeah same for Jordan, Horry has more rings so he should be considered above Jordan.

You just proved how overrated the ring excuse is.

Finals MVPs, now that's how you know who really carried the team.

Jordan 6 Horry 0

thats not ALWAYS true...most of the time sure, but look at 1970 for example. willis reed won it, and while he was the heart and soul of the team, he was hobbled. game 7 the infamous 'here comes willis!' game, where he hobbles out of the locker room, he makes his first shot and then i think one more? walt frazier only had 36 points, 19 assists (seriously, no one does that) 7 boards and 5 steals in that game. he was the real 'most valuable' player in that series, but the award was going to willis no matter what.

[SportsItUpCards]

How is lebron going to "destroy" Kobe's legacy? That's like saying if Kobe somehow got 7 rings he would destroy Jordan's legacy. It's ignorant and shows how stupid your comments are.

No player destroys another's legacy. Kobe has his own, lebron will have his own etc etc

Yeah I know, Bill Russell had his own also.... But who gives a crap today? Surely not most people. I guess I should correct myself and not say "legacy" but collector interest. and value of cards. After all, this is a sportscard forum. How's that, better? Because it always seems that people get worried that their precious cards will lose value, that's how it is with most people. Otherwise they wouldn't be so worried and hurt by other people OPINIONS!!! Otherwise who would care about opinion, really!? We all know what drives all the stupid hate. Wanna talk about stupid? smh

[knicks_please]

If you say so...

And who brought Jordan autograph values down from the 90's prices? UPPER DECK!

The market as a whole for most players is watered down when it comes to autographs, what's your point?

If there was no Jordan, who's prices would be through the roof? Exactly! Bird, Magic and Erving. Then came Jordan, right? Well, now comes Lebron. So what will happen to Kobe prices when most people flock to Lebron? Exactly! The natural cycle of things. It's ok, you'll learn, you still have pleanty of time to go in this hobby, and life in general... no rush. :)!

It is what it is. I don't make the rules. They are what they are.

i think the fact that panini is PUMPING kobe autos out is making them drop. look at jordans prices on these UNC autos that UD is pumping out...is lebron the reason jordan auto prices are going down since there are so darn many of them now? the lakers have enough fans and kobe enough collectors to where his prices aren't going down because someone elses are going up...

[knicks_please]

are wilt chamberlain autos ruined because of MJ or Lebron? or do they still cost a #@#@#@#@ load?
second part - if wilt chamberlain was still alive and panini or UD was MASS producing his autos, would they still be so expensive?
third part - would it then be lebron or jordans fault that his cards dropped in value?

[Prospectorsadvantage]

Yeah I know, Bill Russell had his own also.... But who gives a crap today? Surely not most people. I guess I should correct myself and not say "legacy" but collector interest. and value of cards. After all, this is a sportscard forum. How's that, better? Because it always seems that people get worried that their precious cards will lose value, that's how it is with most people. Otherwise they wouldn't be so worried and hurt by other people OPINIONS!!! Otherwise who would care about opinion, really!? We all know what drives all the stupid hate. Wanna talk about stupid? smh

Problem is Kobe's global appeal is much much bigger than lebrons and even Jordan. His "collectors" appeal will never fade. Maybe when that generation passes on but that is much further down the line.

I don't think most people buy Kobe cards with the intentions of flipping them for profits. In fact I would argue people that are buying lebron cards will see a more likely chance of profits and gains and that's what is motivating these type of threads. I know I've been buying lebron high end rookie cards knowing they are under priced.

[SportsItUpCards]

i think the fact that panini is PUMPING kobe autos out is making them drop. look at jordans prices on these UNC autos that UD is pumping out...is lebron the reason jordan auto prices are going down since there are so darn many of them now? the lakers have enough fans and kobe enough collectors to where his prices aren't going down because someone elses are going up...

Now you're just mixing things up to try and confuse things... but you're not confusing me though.

We will talk in 10+ years. I will bump this thread for you. Makes no sense talking about it now...... I saw a picture stat matchup that was shocking to me, and i've never seen that comparison before, so I shared it. Makes no sense sitting here going back and forth, when what's going to happen WILL happen. Just give it time. So I will leave you with a quote...

"The two most powerful warriors are patience and time."
~ Leo Tolstoy

[knicks_please]

are wilt chamberlain autos ruined because of MJ or Lebron? or do they still cost a #@#@#@#@ load?
second part - if wilt chamberlain was still alive and panini or UD was MASS producing his autos, would they still be so expensive?
third part - would it then be lebron or jordans fault that his cards dropped in value?

answer this one tho...all I'm saying is Kobe prices might go down but not because of lebron...

[Quigley24]

Yeah I know, Bill Russell had his own also.... But who gives a crap today? Surely not most people. I guess I should correct myself and not say "legacy" but collector interest. and value of cards. After all, this is a sportscard forum. How's that, better? Because it always seems that people get worried that their precious cards will lose value, that's how it is with most people. Otherwise they wouldn't be so worried and hurt by other people OPINIONS!!! Otherwise who would care about opinion, really!? We all know what drives all the stupid hate. Wanna talk about stupid? smh

Just an update on the whole Bill Russell thing from a few days ago. I've asked 62 people so far, ranging in age from like 14-50 about what made him great. 51 mentioned his rings.

[bmf]

It's ok man, you have every right to be worried about what Lebron will do to Kobe's career... it's ok, they're only cards. Don't spend so much on them, and you won't have to worry if they'll go down lol smh

At the end of the day, it is what it is... what can we do? Go knock on Lebron's door and tell him, mr. Lebron, can you please, pleeeeease don't destroy Kobe's legacy? Please!? I have a lot invested in his cards, and if you leave him behind in the dust, my cards will be worth nothing. lol.... SMH

Don't blame me, OR Lebron's skills. It is what it is. Simple as that.

I'll bump this thread for you when the time is right, hope you'll be around to see it, I will.

lol, that's just stupidity overload. i'm not sure who is crying out for attention more ... you or that mickey7mantle7

[SportsItUpCards]

Problem is Kobe's global appeal is much much bigger than lebrons and even Jordan. His "collectors" appeal will never fade. Maybe when that generation passes on but that is much further down the line.

I don't think most people buy Kobe cards with the intentions of flipping them for profits. In fact I would argue people that are buying lebron cards will see a more likely chance of profits and gains and that's what is motivating these type of threads. I know I've been buying lebron high end rookie cards knowing they are under priced.

Anybody want "gains"..... buy GOLD & SILVER!!

Of course people "invest" in Kobe cards! They wouldn't be so worried if they didn't. Again, as I told "KNicker Please," I will come to talk about this some more 10+ years from now, as it doesn't make a difference right now.

As for me? I collect cards to collect cards. I've never seen them as "investments" and never will. There is a time and place for investing, cards is not one of them for me. If I get tired of certain cards and trade or sell them, it's just that, to trade them, or cash, for other cards I like at the moment. But cards to me is not an investment, but a passion.

[knicks_please]

are wilt chamberlain autos ruined because of MJ or Lebron? or do they still cost a #@#@#@#@ load?
second part - if wilt chamberlain was still alive and panini or UD was MASS producing his autos, would they still be so expensive?
third part - would it then be lebron or jordans fault that his cards dropped in value?

eh????????

[Prospectorsadvantage]

Anybody want "gains"..... buy GOLD & SILVER!!

Of course people "invest" in Kobe cards! They wouldn't be so worried if they didn't. Again, as I told "KNicker Please," I will come to talk about this some more 10+ years from now, as it doesn't make a difference right now.

As for me? I collect cards to collect cards. I've never seen them as "investments" and never will. There is a time and place for investing, cards is not one of them for me. If I get tired of certain cards and trade or sell them, it's just that, to trade them, or cash, for other cards I like at the moment. But cards to me is not an investment, but a passion.

You assume too much. Some people are, yes even Kobe fans, are just as passionate about one of their players. Your from New York, you don't understand the love LA has for Kobe and never will. His fans love him, hence the staunch defending. Yet you assume it's because they have money invested in him. I bet a ton of "Kobe investors" wouldn't mind seeing prices drop so they could pick up some cards for their pc.

[bmf]

eh????????

lol don't even bother. only about 10% of his posts even make sense

[tristan20]

thats not ALWAYS true...most of the time sure, but look at 1970 for example. willis reed won it, and while he was the heart and soul of the team, he was hobbled. game 7 the infamous 'here comes willis!' game, where he hobbles out of the locker room, he makes his first shot and then i think one more? walt frazier only had 36 points, 19 assists (seriously, no one does that) 7 boards and 5 steals in that game. he was the real 'most valuable' player in that series, but the award was going to willis no matter what.

Oh yeah Kobe robbed Gasol of the Finals MVP in the 2010 Finals. :)!

Gasol deserved it for sure

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2010/6/19/pau-gasol-the-real-finals-mvp.html

[knicks_please]

Oh yeah Kobe robbed Gasol of the Finals MVP in the 2010 Finals. :)!

Gasol deserved it for sure

ummmm...I'm not saying it happens every time lol...

[Burt-Reynolds]

gee, i hope this thread at least ends in murrke getting suspended again like the last one, because that would be the only redeeming thing that could come out this soon to be 30 page clusterf##k, lmfaooooooooooooooo.

really, let me go ahead and sum this thread up in one easy post before it really gets started. these threads are the ultimate merry go round. 5 or 6 particular people will argue with each other around in circles using stats and quotes and info that will be spun to how they want it to sound, then the other person will pick it apart and turn it into one hundred questions to the other person, then the other person will argue back in questions x infinity.

then a few random people will make some comments for one side of the fence or the other that will be ignored and washed out by the 6 main guys going that have been going round in circles at each other for the past 8 days ad nauseam. with the end result being 20+ pages of said 5 or 6 members having spent another week of their lives (what little ones they have) being wasted arguing a argument that will have no end and no winners.

so since i just summed this whole dumba$$ thread into 2 pages how bout you guys end it now and go do something productive with your lives? i know it will never happen but thought it was worth a try anyway.

i should just quote myself every page or so.

[knicks_please]

Oh yeah Kobe robbed Gasol of the Finals MVP in the 2010 Finals. :)!

Gasol deserved it for sure

Pau Gasol: The Real FinalsMVP - Behind the Basket - The Antidote for Conventional Wisdom (http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2010/6/19/pau-gasol-the-real-finals-mvp.html)

wait, you were being serious? lol

[bmf]

i should just quote myself every page or so.

lol that's not bad! bottom line: thread is worthless

[bmf]

wait, you were being serious? lol

haha i thought he was just yanking your chain too

[forgiven1]

Let's not forget Kobe's first two seasons he came off the bench.

Lebron's first season
39.5 minutes a game
Lebron's second season
42.4 minutes a game


Kobe's first season
15.5 minutes a game
Kobe's second season
26 minutes a game

ALSO Kobe's 3rd season was a lockout season where they only played 50 games.

Basically the stat in the OP is irrelevant because of other circumstances I pointed out.


This!.....:)!

[forgiven1]

Haters gonna hate!

[bdoody42]

Eddie Jones and Nick Van Axel.... they were AWESOME haha

At that point they were pretty good players....

[Nyfancam01]

Lebron > Kobe

Period. Look at the stats every.single.night.

[murrke03]

This!.....:)!

So we should ignore the circumstance of Kobe not being good enough his first couple years?

[WillC]

At that point they were pretty good players....

Yes, Eddie Jones was an All-Star at that point in time, and Nick Van Exel was a good starting point guard.

[Cades]

So we should ignore the circumstance of Kobe not being good enough his first couple years?

Just as the circumstance of the Cavs were beyond terrible and the lakers had starting calibre players ahead of Kobe is ignored, where there was no such player in Lebrons way.

(Lebron is still better), but still.

[murrke03]

Just as the circumstance of the Cavs were beyond terrible and the lakers had starting calibre players ahead of Kobe is ignored, where there was no such player in Lebrons way.

(Lebron is still better), but still.

So Lebron wouldn't have started on almost all teams?

Lebron can into the league better and more dominant. That's what matters.

[justdagoodstuff]

As of TODAY, Kobe is the 2nd best player of all-time. Hands down

That stat box doesn't show Kobe's defensive honors and other awards.

To this very day, 3 seconds on the clock, you're down 1 and inbounding the ball, who do you want to take that last shot. Today you will find that more people would say Kobe than Lebron.

Down the road when both of their careers are over, I may say Lebron is the 2nd best ever. Time will tell :)

[murrke03]

As of TODAY, Kobe is the 2nd best player of all-time. Hands down

That stat box doesn't show Kobe's defensive honors and other awards.

To this very day, 3 seconds on the clock, you're down 1 and inbounding the ball, who do you want to take that last shot. Today you will find that more people would say Kobe than Lebron.

Down the road when both of their careers are over, I may say Lebron is the 2nd best ever. Time will tell :)

Saying Kobe is second best player ever is vastly underrating a lot of guys.

Second best gaurd ever? Probably.

I guess you aren't a fan of big men. Hahaha

[Quigley24]

As of TODAY, Kobe is the 2nd best player of all-time. Hands down

That stat box doesn't show Kobe's defensive honors and other awards.

To this very day, 3 seconds on the clock, you're down 1 and inbounding the ball, who do you want to take that last shot. Today you will find that more people would say Kobe than Lebron.

Down the road when both of their careers are over, I may say Lebron is the 2nd best ever. Time will tell :)

Honestly I'd take Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Robertson, and Russell over him. He's in the back of the top 10 in my list along with West and Olajuwon. When it's all said and done I see Lebron being somewhere between 2-4, but not yet.

[WillC]

As of TODAY, Kobe is the 2nd best player of all-time. Hands down

I think most people would disagree with you.

For example, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a) a more dominant player than Kobe Bryant, and b) had a better career.

It's hard to imagine a team with Magic Johnson or Larry Bird on it scraping to make the playoffs, as has been the case with some of Kobe's teams.

And of course Wilt and Russell were far more dominant in their era than Kobe was in his.

[bdoody42]

As of TODAY, Kobe is the 2nd best player of all-time. Hands down

That stat box doesn't show Kobe's defensive honors and other awards.

To this very day, 3 seconds on the clock, you're down 1 and inbounding the ball, who do you want to take that last shot. Today you will find that more people would say Kobe than Lebron.

Down the road when both of their careers are over, I may say Lebron is the 2nd best ever. Time will tell :)

You can maybe make the argument maybe, but hands down is a joke.

[Ultimatewarrick]

carmelo will alwase be in lebrons shadow, aka mr. first round exit

i guess u forgot he almost made it to the finals that one year. you'll see

[knicks_please]

carmelo will alwase be in lebrons shadow, aka mr. first round exit

Carmelo will 'alwase' have something Lebron will never have, an NCAA championship. And when he gets his ring, you'll be singing a different tune. I bet if melo took his talents to play w wade and bosh, he'd have one prob 2 by now.

And also, you'll 'alwase' be working on your Dallas cowboys PC, so have fun with that. Because now a days, they're having fun in the giants shadow...

[Kosmo Kards]

There is my top. I see LeBron at 5 or 6 assuming he has 6-7 more elite years and two-three more rings. I don't see any other current player cracking the top ten all time.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Kareem-Abdul Jabbar
4. Bill Russell
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Magic Johnson
8. Tim Duncan
9. Larry Bird
10. Oscar Robertson

[forgiven1]

Let's not forget Kobe's first two seasons he came off the bench.

Lebron's first season
39.5 minutes a game
Lebron's second season
42.4 minutes a game


Kobe's first season
15.5 minutes a game
Kobe's second season
26 minutes a game

ALSO Kobe's 3rd season was a lockout season where they only played 50 games.

Basically the stat in the OP is irrelevant because of other circumstances I pointed out.

This sums it up pretty well!.......:)!

[1eyed_jack]

This sums it up pretty well!.......:)!

I mean I understand that doesn't change the fact that by the age of 28 Lebron had much better numbers, but here's what people don't realize.

Kobe's longevity is the exception and not the rule. People see Kobe and assume that Lebron will be playing well into his 17th season and that's just not a guarantee by any stretch.

Olajuwon had 15 productive seasons before falling off
Jordan had 13 amazing seasons before his decline
Larry Bird only played 13 seasons
Magic Johnson only played 13 seasons
Oscar Robertson played 14 seasons
Wilt played 14 seasons
Russell played 13 seasons

You can say those players went to college and were older, so let's look at KG.

Through 12 seasons Garnett was a beast and he is still a good player but in a smaller role. After his 12th season his body started breaking down a bit and in his last 6 seasons he's missed about 100 games. Injuries and your body breaking down are quite normal late in players careers.

Kobe is almost done with his 17th season and will at least play his 18th season. That is not normal by any stretch. So while people see Lebron being ahead of Kobe at 28, they are assuming that he will play as long as Kobe and thus have much better numbers. But odds are that won't be the case. If Lebron does play that long at that high a level then all the credit in the world to him and I will have no issue if he earns it saying he's better than Kobe.

[thepinoymamba]

Just like Michael Jordan said!!!
he Will Take Kobe Bryant Anytime!!!
Nuff said...

[bdoody42]

Just like Michael Jordan said!!!
he Will Take Kobe Bryant Anytime!!!
Nuff said...

He also drafted Kwane Brown as the number one pick.....

[bdoody42]

Yes, Eddie Jones was an All-Star at that point in time, and Nick Van Exel was a good starting point guard.

Exactly Kobe wasnt given the chance to start at that time because of the players who were ahead of him.

[SportsItUpCards]

I think most people would disagree with you.

For example, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a) a more dominant player than Kobe Bryant, and b) had a better career.

It's hard to imagine a team with Magic Johnson or Larry Bird on it scraping to make the playoffs, as has been the case with some of Kobe's teams.

And of course Wilt and Russell were far more dominant in their era than Kobe was in his.

Such a great post. I agree with everything.

[forgiven1]

Such a great post. I agree with everything.

I also agree that Kobe is #2 behind Jordan!....:)..That is my opinion!.....Magic, Jerry West, and Shaq say that Kobe is the greatest Laker ever!....That is a fact!.......:)!