COMC please answer this one

[TSJCT]

I get a message where a purchase was returned and the buyer sent all 5 cards back. You credit my account. Can we block a buyer? Also with refractors and autos that are not serial numbered I see this being a huge problem. Are you allowing buyers to send cards back? How do you know your getting the exact same card back? I thought that was the reason you guys were grading the cards before you posted them on the site? As a seller I do not want to be at the mercy of the buyer like ebay. Anyone from Comc reading this please respond.
Thanks in advance

[ManInTheMirror]

Bump for an answer.

[TSJCT]

Guess there is no answer to the question!! Will find out in the am and post what i find out.

[jmscoggin]

I have seen this come up before. Op, are you selling to Amazon buyers? If so that is how this happens. Amazon buyers have the right to return and COMC had to ok this as well to do business with them. Because of this I quit offering mine through Amazon.

[ManInTheMirror]

Guess there is no answer to the question!! Will find out in the am and post what i find out.
OH Coby- now that I think about it I had an experience that may help.

Back in the day I purchased a Colt McCoy and had it shipped to me with a few others. Upon inspection I noticed it was damaged. Basically I sent the card back to them and they then sold the card using one of their employee's own COMC accounts. I was refunded what I paid and I had assumed they refunded the seller as well being that they themselves were then selling said card as damaged. But that was back then, maybe they have changed their actions concerning this type of situation. I hope this helps.

[otmack2o]

OH Coby- now that I think about it I had an experience that may help.

Back in the day I purchased a Colt McCoy and had it shipped to me with a few others. Upon inspection I noticed it was damaged. Basically I sent the card back to them and they then sold the card using one of their employee's own COMC accounts. I was refunded what I paid and I had assumed they refunded the seller as well being that they themselves were then selling said card as damaged. But that was back then, maybe they have changed their actions concerning this type of situation. I hope this helps.

Wouldn't the original seller have already been "refunded" when you purchased the card? The seller likely never even knew the card was returned.

Coby's example is a bit different and somewhat surprising to me in that the cards were returned to his account.

[ManInTheMirror]

Wouldn't the original seller have already been "refunded" when you purchased the card? The seller likely never even knew the card was returned.

Coby's example is a bit different and somewhat surprising to me in that the cards were returned to his account.
Yes, you are correct. I was having a hard time with that part of my recollection and I wasn't thinking correctly. But if the cards were returned to him then that means they have changed the way they handle said situation.

The point of COMC is to avoid all the hassles of eBay. But with this in mind a person who doesn't like you could simply buy cards from you, receive them, damage them and claim they were sent that way. Then they get returned to COMC and put back in the seller's account.

[jmscoggin]

But with this in mind a person who doesn't like you could simply buy cards from you, receive them, damage them and claim they were sent that way. Then they get returned to COMC and put back in the seller's account.

This should never happen. COMC touches every single card that you submit. If there is damage they either note it or reject and return it. Anything that happens to it from that point on is 100% their responsibility. Do not come to me later and say that it is damaged and I have to take it back. That better not be what is happening here. This scenario is why I cut off the Amazon selling as it is exactly what they can do.

[h4auto]

what happens if the card been "flipped" many times... Who takes the responsibility of the card being damaged? The original seller might have sent a card in with "scratches",off center,etc.. that the "AMAZON" buyer did not like and returned them.... ???

Does the LAST PERSON get caught "holding the bag" ?????


interesting situation.

[Rookies_n_Jerse]

COMC's policy change in this area has become a huge concern.
I recently had several expensive vintage cards "returned" to my account.
You have no way to know that its your card that was returned. We all know
there are unscrupulous people out there who may try to return an item that
is not the original and we have lost that protection.

COMC has said that they have checks to make sure that does not happen
and for the most part I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt -
but I think we've all had experiences where we have been screwed by a
buyer on other sites and are here because we wanted to avoid those situations.

[jmscoggin]

what happens if the card been "flipped" many times... Who takes the responsibility of the card being damaged? The original seller might have sent a card in with "scratches",off center,etc.. that the "AMAZON" buyer did not like and returned them.... ???

Does the LAST PERSON get caught "holding the bag" ?????


interesting situation.

When cards are "flipped" they don't actually change hands. I don't know COMC's storage procedures but I would doubt it even gets moved. The flip is done virtually so there should be no change in the condition of the card from when it was first submitted. Again, COMC inspects every single card when it is added to the site. If they aren't damaged at that point and become damaged somewhere after, that is their problem and they need to eat it. Do not try and put it back on original submitter.

In no way do I think they are doing this but since it was addressed I am giving my opinion. I also don't think cards should be returned for any reason through COMC. They had been inspected by a neutral party (COMC) and have very good scans of front and back. If you buy it at that point than it is yours and no returns. Please, please, please don't let this turn into Ebay.

[Cactuspies]

since it was the weekend and fathers day I assume that no response has been given yet. They open up soon so try a call.

I don't think I have ever had a card returned or seen a credit to my account reflecting this.

I had a card I purchased during Thanksgiving time which I had shipped to me. there as damage to the card that you could not see even on the HUGE scan. I contacted them and they did advise that I could return for a refund. I don't know what would happen to it from there. I opted to just keep the card and eventually resold it on ebay siting the damage. I almost felt bad that the seller might get this card back in their inventory, be out the $ I spent and would have to get less for it due to the damage he or she might not even be aware of. Now the guys said the card would have had condition notes added so someone else wouldn't have the same issue as me.

You should send them an email and call and possibly hit them up on facebook/twitter today since they probably won't see this thread and are not as active here as other places.

[TSJCT]

They just told me "COMC will no longer take the hit financially on returns". I told them there was no way in HELL they can tell if the card being returned is the exact same one. Hell we had to send all our cards in PENNY SLEEVES back in the early days of comc and now they ship cards without any protection. No wonder this is becoming an issue. This and many other issues are just way to much. Greed will kill a company faster than anything and i see this happening with COMC.

[ManInTheMirror]

They just told me "COMC will no longer take the hit financially on returns".
I knew that was it. Even back when my Colt situation happened I had thought to myself "well, this is a nice way to handle it, but how long could they keep handling it this way". I'm done with COMC- and that is literally right before I was about to become a big seller on there.

[TSJCT]

I knew that was it. Even back when my Colt situation happened I had thought to myself "well, this is a nice way to handle it, but how long could they keep handling it this way". I'm done with COMC- and that is literally right before I was about to become a big seller on there.

Me too i have said it before but i just told them to get me a freight Quote for all 149,000 cards. If they throw a STUPID # out there i will just fly there and rent a car and bring them back. I mean its (15) 10K boxes. Not that big of a deal. This is going to KILL them mark my word. Now that buyers know this SCAMMERS will kill the site. Buy a Refractor auto they know will grade and send their O/C one back in for a refund. (NON Numbered that is).

[37Jetson]

With this hobby turning to scammer and cheats, COMC is not immune. I now inspect every vintage card that I receive from COMC because I have been getting a small rash of trimmed cards.

COMC in my eyes is good at addressing issues, but the condition (including trimming) seems like a major hurdle in front of them.

COMC's policy change in this area has become a huge concern.
I recently had several expensive vintage cards "returned" to my account.
You have no way to know that its your card that was returned. We all know
there are unscrupulous people out there who may try to return an item that
is not the original and we have lost that protection.

COMC has said that they have checks to make sure that does not happen
and for the most part I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt -
but I think we've all had experiences where we have been screwed by a
buyer on other sites and are here because we wanted to avoid those situations.

[TSJCT]

With this hobby turning to scammer and cheats, COMC is not immune. I now inspect every vintage card that I receive from COMC because I have been getting a small rash of trimmed cards.

COMC in my eyes is good at addressing issues, but the condition (including trimming) seems like a major hurdle in front of them.

If they are going to allow returns to the sellers account then COMC should not be grading cards before they go into the sellers account. The SUPER SIZE photos show what the card is. SCAMMERS will flood COMC now. They have found a new place to have fun with. If i was a NEW seller i would send in ONLY serial #D cards that you can keep track of.

[Cactuspies]

I wonder what the actual sales vs returns ratio is and if it is higher end stuff or low end stuff. TSJCT you are the first to post about having the card returned to your account and with thousands of sellers it has to have happened to others right?

[TSJCT]

I wonder what the actual sales vs returns ratio is and if it is higher end stuff or low end stuff. TSJCT you are the first to post about having the card returned to your account and with thousands of sellers it has to have happened to others right?

This is a Brand New deal as i was told that COMC would no longer take the hit financially. Just wait and you will see just how frequent this will become.

[Cactuspies]

This is a Brand New deal as i was told that COMC would no longer take the hit financially. Just wait and you will see just how frequent this will become.

it would be nice if the newer info and changes would be posted somewhere that we could all see. I mean a blog post weeks later doesn't help. a random twitter post that is 4 pages back minutes later won't help. Seems it takes things like this for the info to slowly come trickling out.

you are still going to have to take returns on ebay no matter what and always run the risk of not getting the same card back too.

[TSJCT]

it would be nice if the newer info and changes would be posted somewhere that we could all see. I mean a blog post weeks later doesn't help. a random twitter post that is 4 pages back minutes later won't help. Seems it takes things like this for the info to slowly come trickling out.

you are still going to have to take returns on ebay no matter what and always run the risk of not getting the same card back too.

Yes but i am not spending the amount of Cash on Ebay that i am on COMC. I will do it myself and save MONEY. I CAN also BLOCK buyers on Ebay and you can not Block buyers on COMC.

[cking]

very curious to hear a response hear

[GoBeavs]

This is a Brand New deal as i was told that COMC would no longer take the hit financially. Just wait and you will see just how frequent this will become.

I have a feeling this is already becoming more frequent. Hence COMC shifting the burden.

I don't believe anyone should be taking any hits, and something should be done regarding the return policy to try to stem the tide of scammers. However, the site was sold to sellers with the initial promise that they would be protected from things like this. Backing out on this promise now is not good at all.

I've been a strong proponent of the site, and have referred many new sellers & buyers. However, I'm starting to have increasing doubts when things like this, and the post about showing historical sales pop up. I'm not ready to bail yet, but I think we need a response from someone from COMC regarding these topics soon.

[XL5]

Don't forget that they're also rolling out Beckett grading and the Vault. So my guess is that if you want to avoid the potential scammers out there, you will need to send in a graded card, or have it graded by Beckett via COMC, and use the Vault for high value cards.

COMC for cheap cards, COMCVault for high-end cards. And ne'er the twain shall meet.

[Jester]

Hey, all. Jeremy from COMC. To TSJCT's original post, I'm sorry we weren't able to get back to you more swiftly; this thread went up on the 15th and our team doesn't typically work on the weekend.

We haven't made a lot of public statements or posts about people returning items over the years because while they do happen they are the exception rather than the rule. We have what we consider to be the most generous return policy in our industry to make online purchasing as safe for buyers as it can reasonably be. We also need to protect our sellers, and we need to make sure our business is organized sustainably.

Historically we have eaten (and continue to absorb) many of the costs of returns. We have also at times elected to return items back into a seller's account and reverse the sale once we have carefully verified that the item returned is the same one which was shipped out. Someone mentioned a concern about fraud, and protecting against fraud is one of the main reasons why we have a policy which allows for us to reverse sales. If COMC absorbed the cost of every return it would be easy for someone to buy an N/A BV card for a dollar, price it at $1000, and then have his friend buy it and return it for instant profit at our expense. No business could continue to operate absorbing loss blindly, so we must use discretion and try to create sensible policies that protect all our customers - buyers and sellers - as effectively as we can while still making sure that COMC has a sound foundation.

Out of respect for the questions raised here we're putting together a blog post to further address item returns, and we expect to have that post live on the blog later today.

Thanks very much,
Jeremy

[TSJCT]

Hey, all. Jeremy from COMC. To TSJCT's original post, I'm sorry we weren't able to get back to you more swiftly; this thread went up on the 15th and our team doesn't typically work on the weekend.

We haven't made a lot of public statements or posts about people returning items over the years because while they do happen they are the exception rather than the rule. We have what we consider to be the most generous return policy in our industry to make online purchasing as safe for buyers as it can reasonably be. We also need to protect our sellers, and we need to make sure our business is organized sustainably.

Historically we have eaten (and continue to absorb) many of the costs of returns. We have also at times elected to return items back into a seller's account and reverse the sale once we have carefully verified that the item returned is the same one which was shipped out. Someone mentioned a concern about fraud, and protecting against fraud is one of the main reasons why we have a policy which allows for us to reverse sales. If COMC absorbed the cost of every return it would be easy for someone to buy an N/A BV card for a dollar, price it at $1000, and then have his friend buy it and return it for instant profit at our expense. No business could continue to operate absorbing loss blindly, so we must use discretion and try to create sensible policies that protect all our customers - buyers and sellers - as effectively as we can while still making sure that COMC has a sound foundation.

Out of respect for the questions raised here we're putting together a blog post to further address item returns, and we expect to have that post live on the blog later today.

Thanks very much,
Jeremy

Jeremy, I am still waiting on the Call for a Freight quote to send me all 149,000 cards back to me. Also it seems you guys CHANGE the rules in the middle of the game to suit what is best for you guys. As a huge business your letting a few buyers of LOW end cards ship them back after one month and putting them back into our inventory. Is it buyers remorse, cards damaged in shipping? This is WHY we pay you guys to do the sales for us. If its damaged in Shipping HOW THE HELL is that our fault that you guys did not package it correctly??? So now we are out the Listing fees, the sales, and now have a Card with condition notes which were never there before the return. Its a JOKE and i just want my Cards back.

[h4auto]

When cards are "flipped" they don't actually change hands. I don't know COMC's storage procedures but I would doubt it even gets moved. The flip is done virtually so there should be no change in the condition of the card from when it was first submitted. Again, COMC inspects every single card when it is added to the site. If they aren't damaged at that point and become damaged somewhere after, that is their problem and they need to eat it. Do not try and put it back on original submitter.

In no way do I think they are doing this but since it was addressed I am giving my opinion. I also don't think cards should be returned for any reason through COMC. They had been inspected by a neutral party (COMC) and have very good scans of front and back. If you buy it at that point than it is yours and no returns. Please, please, please don't let this turn into Ebay.

EXACTLY! that is what i am pointing out. So WHICH PERSON GETS the crrapp end of the deal???

The person that sent the card in ORIGINALLY or flipper number 2/3/5/99 ????

It is sad, The sellers takes EVERYONES ACCOUNTABILITY! USPS(we pay for the service), COMC(we pay for the service).

I wish all my businesses was so unaccountable, i should start a "delivery" "escrow" company that gets paid for "services" BUT IF ANYTHING HAPPENS WHEN THE "PRODUCT or ITEM" is in my companies possession , I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY .... HEY, Kind of sounds like the government spending TAX PAYERS MONEY! Easy to spend and make a decision when its someone elses lost....:eek:

[papercards]

Hey, all. Jeremy from COMC. To TSJCT's original post, I'm sorry we weren't able to get back to you more swiftly; this thread went up on the 15th and our team doesn't typically work on the weekend.

We haven't made a lot of public statements or posts about people returning items over the years because while they do happen they are the exception rather than the rule. We have what we consider to be the most generous return policy in our industry to make online purchasing as safe for buyers as it can reasonably be. We also need to protect our sellers, and we need to make sure our business is organized sustainably.

Historically we have eaten (and continue to absorb) many of the costs of returns. We have also at times elected to return items back into a seller's account and reverse the sale once we have carefully verified that the item returned is the same one which was shipped out. Someone mentioned a concern about fraud, and protecting against fraud is one of the main reasons why we have a policy which allows for us to reverse sales. If COMC absorbed the cost of every return it would be easy for someone to buy an N/A BV card for a dollar, price it at $1000, and then have his friend buy it and return it for instant profit at our expense. No business could continue to operate absorbing loss blindly, so we must use discretion and try to create sensible policies that protect all our customers - buyers and sellers - as effectively as we can while still making sure that COMC has a sound foundation.

Out of respect for the questions raised here we're putting together a blog post to further address item returns, and we expect to have that post live on the blog later today.

Thanks very much,
Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for the explanation. If returns are becoming more of an issue, is it because of Amazon? I love that fact we have the presence on there, but if this is going to not protect us as well as it has in the past...is getting off of Amazon a possibility for COMC if the majority of returns is from those customers?

[h4auto]

Jeremy, I am still waiting on the Call for a Freight quote to send me all 149,000 cards back to me. Also it seems you guys CHANGE the rules in the middle of the game to suit what is best for you guys. As a huge business your letting a few buyers of LOW end cards ship them back after one month and putting them back into our inventory. Is it buyers remorse, cards damaged in shipping? This is WHY we pay you guys to do the sales for us. If its damaged in Shipping HOW THE HELL is that our fault that you guys did not package it correctly??? So now we are out the Listing fees, the sales, and now have a Card with condition notes which were never there before the return. Its a JOKE and i just want my Cards back.

you are 100% right.

[jmscoggin]

Jeremy, I am still waiting on the Call for a Freight quote to send me all 149,000 cards back to me. Also it seems you guys CHANGE the rules in the middle of the game to suit what is best for you guys. As a huge business your letting a few buyers of LOW end cards ship them back after one month and putting them back into our inventory. Is it buyers remorse, cards damaged in shipping? This is WHY we pay you guys to do the sales for us. If its damaged in Shipping HOW THE HELL is that our fault that you guys did not package it correctly??? So now we are out the Listing fees, the sales, and now have a Card with condition notes which were never there before the return. Its a JOKE and i just want my Cards back.

Couldn't have said it better myself. COMC reviews the cards upon submission. If there is damage it is then and only then that they can reject it or put condition notes. At NO time after that is there a reason to force it back on original submitter after a sale. It either got damaged by COMC or the buyer, period and is not sellers responsibility. Why the hell am I paying all of these fees if COMC takes no responsibility? I too would like a quote to return all of my items to me.

[yazevans]

Couldn't have said it better myself. COMC reviews the cards upon submission. If there is damage it is then and only then that they can reject it or put condition notes. At NO time after that is there a reason to force it back on original submitter after a sale. It either got damaged by COMC or the buyer, period and is not sellers responsibility. Why the hell am I paying all of these fees if COMC takes no responsibility? I too would like a quote to return all of my items to me.

Has anyone actually had a card damaged in shipping returned to your port? There seems to be a lot of freaking out for something that hasn't happened to anyone. Jeremy from COMC said they would still be absorbing the cost of some returns, which most likely would be those damaged in shipping.

But yeah, don't actually use logic, since the usual suspects have decided that the sky is falling once again...

[jmscoggin]

Has anyone actually had a card damaged in shipping returned to your port? There seems to be a lot of freaking out for something that hasn't happened to anyone. Jeremy from COMC said they would still be absorbing the cost of some returns, which most likely would be those damaged in shipping.

But yeah, don't actually use logic, since the usual suspects have decided that the sky is falling once again...

How much value in cards do you have on COMC? I have $50k so I would think I have a vested interest. If you don't, then stfu. I don't need your bs comments when I am trying to get to the bottom of very very serious issues. I find that it is best to counter problems BEFORE they get out of hand than after. If you have something helpful to add than by all means do, if not, piss off.

[yazevans]

How much value in cards do you have on COMC? I have $50k so I would think I have a vested interest. If you don't, then stfu. I don't need your bs comments when I am trying to get to the bottom of very very serious issues. I find that it is best to counter problems BEFORE they get out of hand than after. If you have something helpful to add than by all means do, if not, piss off.

If I don't have as much book value on the site as you I should piss off? I only have $12k so I guess I don't have enough skin in the game and my opinion doesn't matter. Just trying to introduce a little rationality to the discussion.

But you're right, it's way more entertaining watching the usual guys freak out and threaten to take their ball and go home.

[vikingfan101]

I believe as someone hinted at above Amazon is the problem. A couple months ago I had an item returned into my account and when I asked the answer was along the lines of Amazon having different return rules COMC had to abide by.

If that's the case, COMC should just pull out of Amazon and not deal with the hassle. I don't think all that much sells on there and even if it does you lose 20% to Amazon and another 20% to COMC off the sale.

[jmscoggin]

If I don't have as much book value on the site as you I should piss off? I only have $12k so I guess I don't have enough skin in the game and my opinion doesn't matter. Just trying to introduce a little rationality to the discussion.

But you're right, it's way more entertaining watching the usual guys freak out and threaten to take their ball and go home.

My point was that you should not begrudge me for being concerned about my assets. You clearly have "skin in the game" as well so you are entitled to your opinions but don't minimize mine as something like "the sky is falling". By no means am I saying it is the same thing but if Enron or Madoff investors got involved a bit earlier and started being concerned maybe some people could have been spared. You just keep your head in the sand and hope for the best. As for me, I want answers.

[Jester]

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for the explanation. If returns are becoming more of an issue, is it because of Amazon? I love that fact we have the presence on there, but if this is going to not protect us as well as it has in the past...is getting off of Amazon a possibility for COMC if the majority of returns is from those customers?

Hi, papercards. There are certainly more returns through Amazon than there are through our site, but I wouldn't say that Amazon is the reason we've developed our current process. Even without that partnership our growth would still have necessitated evolutions of our return policy and other policies. Partnering with them has been overall very good for the site - $60K+ in BV sold over the last 30 days alone - but we always consider it to be our responsibility to be objective. If the partnership ever starts to do more harm than good, we'll need to be unsentimental about doing what's best for our users.
Updating our policies has been a step to protect our customers; if COMC starts losing money due to scams etc. because we weren't responsible enough to design sensible, long-term policies, then we'd need to increase all our fees to build that loss into our budget. We don't want our users to subsidize that, so we need to be very realistic about each of our policies and if each of them is still a good fit for our projected growth rate.

As far as other questions about cards damaged in shipping etc, fortunately that is an extremely rare occurrence due to the amazing work of our shipping team. It hardly ever comes up, and we do a full investigation each time. If a condition note was missed etc, we have always taken responsibility for that. COMC's conviction has always been that we don't want to ever have a user pay for a mistake made by us.

I'll post a link here to the blog post we're putting together about returns as soon as it is live.

Thanks very much,
Jeremy

[jmscoggin]

I believe as someone hinted at above Amazon is the problem. A couple months ago I had an item returned into my account and when I asked the answer was along the lines of Amazon having different return rules COMC had to abide by.

If that's the case, COMC should just pull out of Amazon and not deal with the hassle. I don't think all that much sells on there and even if it does you lose 20% to Amazon and another 20% to COMC off the sale.

That was me. To be fair, the only returns that I noticed were when I had the Amazon option checked. As soon as I quit doing it I haven't noticed it again. BUT, the reply here said that they would take back ALL returns, Amazon was not specified. If they choose to do that than they need to have their own personal COMC selling account and resell the cards themselves. Do not force a card back onto me that was sold undamaged and in good faith.

[h4auto]

Hey guys.. ebay started changes LITTLE BY LITTLE and after changes every 6 months for a few years.............>>>>>, IT IS HORRIBLE NOW...

It is great to see COMC become a great site, but it is going too "corporate" and forgetting the little guys that made them successful (sshhss,,, sounds familiar).

How could people with $100 - $1000's dollar singles even trust the policy of no accountability from people that handle the cards? I thought it was bad enough with ebay's policies that expect accountability by the sellers for PAID services by USPS,UPS and FEDx . But COMC is asking the sellers to ADD on the accountability of someone ELSE handling,packing and touching the card.... TOTALLY NO CONTROL with TOTAL ACCOUNTABILITY... that sucks...

But, i just started back with comc and hope it is better then a 1-2 years ago.

[jmscoggin]

Hi, papercards. There are certainly more returns through Amazon than there are through our site, but I wouldn't say that Amazon is the reason we've developed our current process. Even without that partnership our growth would still have necessitated evolutions of our return policy and other policies. Partnering with them has been overall very good for the site - $60K+ in BV sold over the last 30 days alone - but we always consider it to be our responsibility to be objective. If the partnership ever starts to do more harm than good, we'll need to be unsentimental about doing what's best for our users.
Updating our policies has been a step to protect our customers; if COMC starts losing money due to scams etc. because we weren't responsible enough to design sensible, long-term policies, then we'd need to increase all our fees to build that loss into our budget. We don't want our users to subsidize that, so we need to be very realistic about each of our policies and if each of them is still a good fit for our projected growth rate.

As far as other questions about cards damaged in shipping etc, fortunately that is an extremely rare occurrence due to the amazing work of our shipping team. It hardly ever comes up, and we do a full investigation each time. If a condition note was missed etc, we have always taken responsibility for that. COMC's conviction has always been that we don't want to ever have a user pay for a mistake made by us.

I'll post a link here to the blog post we're putting together about returns as soon as it is live.

Thanks very much,
Jeremy

Continue to allienate your sellers and you will not need new policies because you will not have product to sell to customers. COMC touches every card twice. Once on submission and once at shipment. It is 100% your responsibility to check for damage. There is NO, I repeat NO reason I should ever have to take back a card that passed these inspections. If your company chooses to do so that is on you. Do not "raise fees" on me and do not force the card back onto me.

[jmscoggin]

Hey guys.. ebay started changes LITTLE BY LITTLE and after changes every 6 months for a few years.............>>>>>, IT IS HORRIBLE NOW...

It is great to see COMC become a great site, but it is going too "corporate" and forgetting the little guys that made them successful (sshhss,,, sounds familiar).

How could people with $100 - $1000's dollar singles even trust the policy of no accountability from people that handle the cards? I thought it was bad enough with ebay's policies that expect accountability by the sellers for PAID services by USPS,UPS and FEDx . But COMC is asking the sellers to ADD on the accountability of someone ELSE handling,packing and touching the card.... TOTALLY NO CONTROL with TOTAL ACCOUNTABILITY... that sucks...

But, i just started back with comc and hope it is better then a 1-2 years ago.

Not sure how it was then but it definately has gotten much worse in the months that I've been using it.

[TSJCT]

Continue to allienate your sellers and you will not need new policies because you will not have product to sell to customers. COMC touches every card twice. Once on submission and once at shipment. It is 100% your responsibility to check for damage. There is NO, I repeat NO reason I should ever have to take back a card that passed these inspections. If your company chooses to do so that is on you. Do not "raise fees" on me and do not force the card back onto me.

Exactly. That is what i told them on the phone!! I just told them i want all the cards back as i will be the one to Ship them and scan them and it will be my fault if its returned on ebay. I have no control right now and will take the control back. I will keep the post updated as i get more info on the shipment.

[TSJCT]

If I don't have as much book value on the site as you I should piss off? I only have $12k so I guess I don't have enough skin in the game and my opinion doesn't matter. Just trying to introduce a little rationality to the discussion.

But you're right, it's way more entertaining watching the usual guys freak out and threaten to take their ball and go home.

you just stay there and Sell! Will be less competition on ebay for me. :)!

[glen87]

Hi, papercards. There are certainly more returns through Amazon than there are through our site, but I wouldn't say that Amazon is the reason we've developed our current process. Even without that partnership our growth would still have necessitated evolutions of our return policy and other policies. Partnering with them has been overall very good for the site - $60K+ in BV sold over the last 30 days alone - but we always consider it to be our responsibility to be objective. If the partnership ever starts to do more harm than good, we'll need to be unsentimental about doing what's best for our users.
Updating our policies has been a step to protect our customers; if COMC starts losing money due to scams etc. because we weren't responsible enough to design sensible, long-term policies, then we'd need to increase all our fees to build that loss into our budget. We don't want our users to subsidize that, so we need to be very realistic about each of our policies and if each of them is still a good fit for our projected growth rate.

As far as other questions about cards damaged in shipping etc, fortunately that is an extremely rare occurrence due to the amazing work of our shipping team. It hardly ever comes up, and we do a full investigation each time. If a condition note was missed etc, we have always taken responsibility for that. COMC's conviction has always been that we don't want to ever have a user pay for a mistake made by us.

I'll post a link here to the blog post we're putting together about returns as soon as it is live.

Thanks very much,
Jeremy

sellers are your customers, not buyers.

without the cards to sell there would be no buyers. sellers are the ones providing you with the up front income, not buyers. i am just a small seller, but you have over $200 of mine, and my cards are not due to post for a couple of weeks. if i were just a buyer, you would not have $200 of mine right now.

[TSJCT]

sellers are your customers, not buyers.

without the cards to sell there would be no buyers. sellers are the ones providing you with the up front income, not buyers. i am just a small seller, but you have over $200 of mine, and my cards are not due to post for a couple of weeks. if i were just a buyer, you would not have $200 of mine right now.

Exactly!! Stepping over a Dollar to pick up a Nickel

[jmscoggin]

sellers are your customers, not buyers.

without the cards to sell there would be no buyers. sellers are the ones providing you with the up front income, not buyers. i am just a small seller, but you have over $200 of mine, and my cards are not due to post for a couple of weeks. if i were just a buyer, you would not have $200 of mine right now.

And this ladies, gentleman and COMC is it in a nutshell. What I tried to say only with much less words and much more clear. Bravo to you. :)!:)!:)!:)!:)!

[MarkM]

Hello Folks,

Thanks for your patience. The new blog post is now live on the site. You can read it here: Explaining COMC Return Policies | COMC Blog (http://blog.comc.com/2013/06/17/explaining-comc-return-policies/)

If you need anything further, feel free to leave us your thoughts in the comments section of the blog or get back to our Customer Service department.

Regards,
Mark M.

[ManInTheMirror]

Hello Folks,

Thanks for your patience. The new blog post is now live on the site. You can read it here: Explaining COMC Return Policies | COMC Blog (http://blog.comc.com/2013/06/17/explaining-comc-return-policies/)

If you need anything further, feel free to leave us your thoughts in the comments section of the blog or get back to our Customer Service department.

Regards,
Mark M.
Wait a minute....so a buyer can return a card "just because they feel like it"? As long as it's within the 14 day period? oh boy

[yazevans]

Oh wow, look at at that! "If a returned item is lost, damaged, or different, we absorb the cost of that item."

Can we stop crying now?

[glen87]

there should be no returns PERIOD!

once my batch of new cards goes live, I will probably have a port sale and be done with COMC as a seller. Why? because I do not want to have sales "overturned" 45 days later.

[XL5]

Wait a minute....so a buyer can return a card "just because they feel like it"? As long as it's within the 14 day period? oh boy

That hasn't changed. I first found COMC as a buyer several years ago. They had the same return policy for buyers back then.

[h4auto]

What happened to the COMC i signed up for 3 years ago, Comc just it 1,000,000 cards on the site...


:confused::confused::confused: i thought i come back to a better,faster and with more sales...

[TSJCT]

**********************************************

[yazevans]

Did you see the scan of Returns??? I would say they are not all damaged, Lost, or Different and if they are then someone is doing a crappy job of shipping. Once they charge me the .25 cents per listing and do their grading thing it should be good to go. If they want to take returns then COMC needs a Port to sell out of for all the returns they take back. But COMC is going the wrong direction and protecting Buyers over Sellers.

The whole discussion in this thread was you and h4auto were assuming that COMC would hold us responsible for returns due to damage that happened during shipping to the buyer (whether honest or attempting a scam), or swapping out the card, and the new policy states that we will not be held responsible for that.

As far as the general return policy, every major online retailer has a similar return policy. I can return stuff to Amazon for no reason. COMC needs to have a similar policy to be taken seriously by buyers.

Here's a scenario based on your suggestion...what if a buyer returns a card and keeps it in their own "returns" port, the player gets hot, and COMC makes bank off of that card? Would you be happy in that situation, or would you rather the card had been returned to your port?

[glen87]

Did you see the scan of Returns??? I would say they are not all damaged, Lost, or Different and if they are then someone is doing a crappy job of shipping. Once they charge me the .25 cents per listing and do their grading thing it should be good to go. If they want to take returns then COMC needs a Port to sell out of for all the returns they take back. But COMC is going the wrong direction and protecting Buyers over Sellers.

correct!

any card (once posted) on COMC should actually "belong" to COMC. as a seller, we are paying them to list and "sell" the card for us. but by posting "our" card, COMC is (in effect) assuming responsibilty for that card. if they deem a card worthy of posting, that should be the end of it. if the card is damaged, it should not be posted, and returned to the seller

[TSJCT]

The whole discussion in this thread was you and h4auto were assuming that COMC would hold us responsible for returns due to damage that happened during shipping to the buyers (whether honest or attempting a scam), and the new policy states that we will not be held responsible for that.

As far as the general return policy, every major online retailer has a similar return policy. I can return stuff to Amazon for no reason. COMC needs to have a similar policy to be taken seriously by buyers.

Here's a scenario based on your suggestion...what if a buyer returns a card and keeps it in their own "returns" port, the player gets hot, and COMC makes bank off of that card? Would you be happy in that situation, or would you rather the card had been returned to your port?

Once a Card sales its final in my book. What if i sold a Bryce Harper Auto on Monday and he has a career ending injury on Tuesday. I am supposed to take the card back??

[Dragonman]

I think its pretty safe to say that you are not going anywhjere ...Haven't we been down this road before

[yazevans]

Once a Card sales its final in my book. What if i sold a Bryce Harper Auto on Monday and he has a career ending injury on Tuesday. I am supposed to take the card back??

Yes, unless it was damaged/lost in shipping or swapped out by the buyer for an inferior copy of the card. It's your card.

Returns are part of doing business, they happen a small percentage of the time in any business where money is exchanged for goods.

[yazevans]

I think its pretty safe to say that you are not going anywhjere ...Haven't we been down this road before

He has his own complaint line at COMC...the hold music is a tiny violin.

[jmscoggin]

Here's a scenario based on your suggestion...what if a buyer returns a card and keeps it in their own "returns" port, the player gets hot, and COMC makes bank off of that card? Would you be happy in that situation, or would you rather the card had been returned to your port?

This is so laughingly stupid. As far as I was concerned I would have sold the item in question for a price that I was happy with. I don't care if you, COMC or the Pope made money on it after that happens. Go back and look through my post history. I have been one of COMC's biggest fans and cheerleaders. I don't criticize lightly and even doing so is costing me potential sales by scaring buyers away. But I am genuinely concerned.

This Ebay model of the customer is always right is wrong. There isn't one single legitimate reason to return something from COMC. It was inspected by a neutral party and awesome scans were provided. What the hell happened to personal responsibility. Why do so many people feel that it is ok to screw others? That is what these policies promote.

[Dragonman]

Trust me Tsjct and jmscoggin are not leaving and COMC is fully aware that they are not.But I'm sure its humerous talk at the water cooler.

[TSJCT]

Trust me Tsjct and jmscoggin are not leaving and COMC is fully aware that they are not.But I'm sure its humerous talk at the water cooler.

I am waiting on a freight quote now. I told them i would fly and rent a car to get them back if the fright quote was Stupid high. If you would like to make a friendly wager i am game but dont let your Mouth write a check your butt can not cover.

[jmscoggin]

Trust me Tsjct and jmscoggin are not leaving and COMC is fully aware that they are not.But I'm sure its humerous talk at the water cooler.

I don't kid myself that COMC gives two squirts about me or whether I stay or not. Take a look at the blog post and comments though as well as most in this thread. I am far from out here alone. These policies will kill COMC be it today or not far down the road. They exist because they were the anti Ebay but for some reason they want to copy the very business whose bad policies brought about their success. Real smart.

[h4auto]

Yes, unless it was damaged/lost in shipping or swapped out by the buyer for an inferior copy of the card. It's your card.

Returns are part of doing business, they happen a small percentage of the time in any business where money is exchanged for goods.

BUT..... You are talking about USED items.. Not NEW items.

Also, COMC takes the item in ITS POSSESSION and scans,handles and stores the card. WE PAY for that service.

Another thing. Cards gets "FLIPPED" multiple times. If Amazon and comc forces the seller to take the card BACK, can that seller ask that the card be given back the his "SELLER" , and so forth to the original owner??????

IDK... there are too many "IFS"... but the only thing I AM WORRIED ABOUT is sending in more expensive cards now. too many "ifs" are against the owner that the owner cannot control ---> COMC's handling and packing, USPS delivery service, etc... too many people in a long chain of events for expensive items with only one person taking the lose ----> the seller...

[Dragonman]

I am waiting on a freight quote now. I told them i would fly and rent a car to get them back if the fright quote was Stupid high. If you would like to make a friendly wager i am game but dont let your Mouth write a check your butt can not cover.

Is it double or nothing from 2 weeks ago.....and as for ridiculing a guy who has 457 cards in his port.,Anyone can have 800k in a port I have that in the backroom of my store

[glen87]

..............

[glen87]

Another thing. Cards gets "FLIPPED" multiple times. If Amazon and comc forces the seller to take the card BACK, can that seller ask that the card be given back the his "SELLER" , and so forth to the original owner??????

good point, had not even thought of that one. i have several cards which i have recently purchased, marked "not for sale" on the site, and are sitting there ready to be shipped. can i simply "return" them now without going through the hassle of having them mailed to me and then me having to ship them back???

[jmscoggin]

good point, had not even thought of that one. i have several cards which i have recently purchased, marked "not for sale" on the site, and are sitting there ready to be shipped. can i simply "return" them now without going through the hassle of having them mailed to me and then me having to ship them back???

It would seem so.

[h4auto]

good point, had not even thought of that one. i have several cards which i have recently purchased, marked "not for sale" on the site, and are sitting there ready to be shipped. can i simply "return" them now without going through the hassle of having them mailed to me and then me having to ship them back???

So basically even a "flipper" can buy a card. posted in his port for a few days... and inspect the scan and say, "HEY, that piece of dust looks like a scratch" can i return it and get a refund.... that is opening a can or worms ... yikes.

Imagine the big sellers, they could buy all the Expensive HOT cards and try to sell them for a few days and return them if they dont sell..... ouch...

I just quit the car business, i hope the CARD business doesnt have consumers signing "AS IS" contracts when buying used cards...shsss:eek:

[TSJCT]

Is it double or nothing from 2 weeks ago.....and as for ridiculing a guy who has 457 cards in his port.,Anyone can have 800k in a port I have that in the backroom of my store

*************************************

[yazevans]

The policy specifically says "14 days from when the item ships," so that would imply that you have to take delivery of the item before returning it, but COMC should probably clarify that.

[jmscoggin]

The policy specifically says "14 days from when the item ships," so that would imply that you have to take delivery of the item before returning it, but COMC should probably clarify that.

Wouldn't it just be a technicality? So they force delivery and buyer returns it at that time.

[Dragonman]

Get back to work!! And get that Price quote for me. I have been waiting since 10AM to get it. Go tell TIM i am waiting. Thanks!

I already flew home for the evening.But i will tell him when I arrive tomorrow after my 5 hour flight

[yazevans]

Wouldn't it just be a technicality? So they force delivery and buyer returns it at that time.

Hard to say the way it's worded...they should definitely clarify that part of the policy.

[TSJCT]

**********************************

[Dacubs]

Once a Card sales its final in my book. What if i sold a Bryce Harper Auto on Monday and he has a career ending injury on Tuesday. I am supposed to take the card back??

just an observation, but can't the same thing happen on ebay?

[TSJCT]

**********************

[TSJCT]

**********************************************************

[TSJCT]

********************************************

[jmscoggin]

just an observation, but can't the same thing happen on ebay?

Yes, and that is exactly the point. It is that kind of crap that most of us sellers moved to COMC to avoid and now they are going to do it too.

[TSJCT]

I will apologize to those i took my frustration out on today. Every port on COMC means something to that person whether its a Huge port or a small port. Book value means nothing and i know that. Sorry to those i offended. Ill just move forward from here and not post anything pertaining to COMC on here again. Once again i apologize and hope all the sales on Comc for anyones port does well.

[kevinshreves]

I think I will chime in on this one as well. In theory a buyer could do something like this.....

Example:


Today buy for example a Wil Myers Auto for $100


Tomorrow have it shipped to them


When received, list it as a BIN on Ebay for $125


If it does not sell for a profit, they can return it and have no recourse???

Will there be limits set on buyers for the number of seperate items that they can return in a month/year? This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I can see a port sale in my very near future:(

[Ajax1723]

EDIT Not really worth discussing, just want to explore every way to make COMC a better place to buy and sell.

[h4auto]

just an observation, but can't the same thing happen on ebay?

By mostly everyones opinion, i am the most stupid person on this forum.
But, as i just read the blog, The "return" deadline starts WHEN you buyer takes delivery.

SO, technically you could go and buy all the expensive cards of Tim Duncan,Lebron,Parker,Trout,Strasburg,Darvish,etc and leave them in your "waiting to be shipped or even your port" and AFTER the playoffs or Cy young,mvp voting is done, KEEP THE players that gained value and Return the players that DID not raise in value because the cards have NOT been delivered yet...??? ouch

IDK... just thinking... and using an exaggerating example like COMC used the $1.00 card being marked up to $1000.00 and returned for refund.. which was interesting...

[JohnAndrew]

**********************

**********************************************************

********************************************

Dude, what are you even doing? You're the only one who comes out looking bad in all of this. Stop trying to throw your weight around and open up a support ticket in private -- no one wants to hear your crap anymore.

[Dragonman]

what do the asterisks mean

[cruiserdaddy7]

TSJCT-

The last few weeks you have done nothing but complain about COMC. You have said you were taking 50% off your cards.. you did not. You said you were leaving COMC the first time...you did not. Now you make another thread crying about COMC and we all know you wont do a darn thing about it but blow some more smoke. Why continue threatening to take your ball and go home yet you stay around to play?

[nuccionino]

TSJCT-

The last few weeks you have done nothing but complain about COMC. You have said you were taking 50% off your cards.. you did not. You said you were leaving COMC the first time...you did not. Now you make another thread crying about COMC and we all know you wont do a darn thing about it but blow some more smoke. Why continue threatening to take your ball and go home yet you stay around to play?

I cannot believe this, write this down folks, I agree with cruisedaddy here.

TSJCT, you did the same thing last time with editing all your posts as well. If you are upset, fine, at least keep the posts up.

[checkoutmydeals]

Some technical points:

* COMC keeps every scan of every card that was ever on the site. If you go to your sales history, you can see the large, clear scan of every card you ever sold. So, it wouldn't be possible for someone to swap out an off-center card for a centered card, without it being detected. It's possible the buyer could claim that COMC sent the wrong one, but in that case, COMC would probably be holding the bag, not the seller.

* A while back, COMC called me on the phone. They had accidentally shipped one of my cards to a buyer, when that buyer had actually purchased a different copy of the card from a different seller. The buyer was happy with the card they got. COMC wanted to know if it was OK for them to put the other card in my account. The other card was actually in better condition, and I said fine. But if I said it wasn't fine, I believe that COMC was prepared to do whatever it took to make me happy. But I didn't test the point. Anyway, they made the customer happy. They made the seller happy. They made me happy. I don't see how you can say they aren't looking out for the little guy and don't have conscientious customer service. That being said, they're closed on weekends. Always have been. So if trouble erupts on the boards on Friday afternoon, they might not respond to it until some time Monday.

[Bottom9th]

I cannot believe this, write this down folks, I agree with cruisedaddy here.

TSJCT, you did the same thing last time with editing all your posts as well. If you are upset, fine, at least keep the posts up.

I thought I was the only one that felt this way. While I feel there are valid points regarding returns, I don't think anything that COMC does will make TSJCT happy.

[TSJCT]

I was upset and yes i edited post because COMC made things right on Returns. I apologized and that is all i can do.

[TSJCT]

TSJCT-

The last few weeks you have done nothing but complain about COMC. You have said you were taking 50% off your cards.. you did not. You said you were leaving COMC the first time...you did not. Now you make another thread crying about COMC and we all know you wont do a darn thing about it but blow some more smoke. Why continue threatening to take your ball and go home yet you stay around to play?

Comc made things right for me once again. Sometimes venting helps. :)!

[JohnAndrew]

I was upset and yes i edited post because COMC made things right on Returns. I apologized and that is all i can do.

No, what you can do is refrain from these public tirades in the future. If I'm not mistaken, this is the second time you've done this. If you're going to make disparaging remarks towards COMC and other members on the forum, at least have the stones to stand by them and don't double back and edit or remove them in retrospect.

Do us all a favor: next time you get into a tizzy, do the mature thing and resolve it with COMC in private. The customer service is top-notch and I'm confident you will be able to find a resolution without airing your dirty laundry for all the world to see.

[TSJCT]

No, what you can do is refrain from these public tirades in the future. If I'm not mistaken, this is the second time you've done this. If you're going to make disparaging remarks towards COMC and other members on the forum, at least have the stones to stand by them and don't double back and edit or remove them in retrospect.

Do us all a favor: next time you get into a tizzy, do the mature thing and resolve it with COMC in private. The customer service is top-notch and I'm confident you will be able to find a resolution without airing your dirty laundry for all the world to see.

TIM made things RIGHT for me thats all i can say. I will not discuss this in Public.

[JohnAndrew]

TIM made things RIGHT for me thats all i can say. I will not discuss this in Public.

Funny how you can spend all day airing your grievances and when you're finally "happy", it is no longer a public matter.

[TSJCT]

Funny how you can spend all day airing your grievances and when you're finally "happy", it is no longer a public matter.

yeah i know but it is what it is.

[JohnAndrew]

yeah i know but it is what it is.

What does that even mean?

[TSJCT]

What does that even mean?

it means IT IS WHAT IT IS. Give me a break as yesterday was a hard day. Living in the basement of my parents house and it was noisy upstairs yesterday. Monday's are the day of the week my parents clean house and i could hardly think as it was just so loud up there. I mean living in a basement and trying to make ends meet with baseball cards is tough.

[JohnAndrew]

it means IT IS WHAT IT IS. Give me a break as yesterday was a hard day. Living in the basement of my parents house and it was noisy upstairs yesterday. Monday's are the day of the week my parents clean house and i could hardly think as it was just so loud up there. I mean living in a basement and trying to make ends meet with baseball cards is tough.

Your circumstances are atypical of COMC sellers -- all the more reason to take your issues up in private.

[jmscoggin]

it means IT IS WHAT IT IS. Give me a break as yesterday was a hard day. Living in the basement of my parents house and it was noisy upstairs yesterday. Monday's are the day of the week my parents clean house and i could hardly think as it was just so loud up there. I mean living in a basement and trying to make ends meet with baseball cards is tough.

You live in your parents basement and are having a tough time "making ends meet" but you have an insane amount of cards? One of these things doesn't make sense. I'm glad Tim took care of you but if that post was the full truth you may want to reevaluate some things. No doubt I have way more in cards than I should and they are mostly in COMC's hands but I also am making ends meet outside of cards and anything made from them is just a bonus.

I'm still holding out hope that COMC listens to these posts and I don't have much doubt that they will as they always have in the past. Heck, Nathan himself said that he was ok with me doing this post to get feedback that they could use. That is awesome. I am not happy with them at all right now for things I have posted as well as things that I have not but I'm going to wait and see how this shakes out and try to trust that they will do what is right for their sellers.

[h4auto]

You live in your parents basement and are having a tough time "making ends meet" but you have an insane amount of cards? One of these things doesn't make sense. I'm glad Tim took care of you but if that post was the full truth you may want to reevaluate some things. No doubt I have way more in cards than I should and they are mostly in COMC's hands but I also am making ends meet outside of cards and anything made from them is just a bonus.

I'm still holding out hope that COMC listens to these posts and I don't have much doubt that they will as they always have in the past. Heck, Nathan himself said that he was ok with me doing this post to get feedback that they could use. That is awesome. I am not happy with them at all right now for things I have posted as well as things that I have not but I'm going to wait and see how this shakes out and try to trust that they will do what is right for their sellers.


This tread is healthy for comc. people can see both sides of a situation. learn how others perceive a issue or change.

[jmscoggin]

This tread is healthy for comc. people can see both sides of a situation. learn how others perceive a issue or change.

Exactly. He and I had a conversation on the phone and his opinions on these issues were almost completely opposite of mine. I brought up concerns that he had not thought about but in fairness he said that he was open to having me ask the forums for feedback. I have seen them do this before and use that feedback.

I have also seen them ignore it as in closing the old site and starting the new. I can't remember a single person that liked the new one over the old but they did it anyway. Heck, I can't even remember the old one now and the new one works fine so my concerns obviously were not warranted. Maybe these issues will shake out the same way.

I guess if it goes badly I will just go move into TSJCT's basement. I'm sure it is nice and lined with gold leaf. I'm thinking Trump's penthouse but underground.

[JohnAndrew]

This tread is healthy for comc. people can see both sides of a situation. learn how others perceive a issue or change.

I don't disagree that constructive criticism is important in the client-customer relationship and I commend COMC for being continually receptive to feedback. I am calling out TSJCT for his lack of professionalism, as evidenced by his public threats and his penchant for trying to induce "portfolio envy" in other members.

[jmscoggin]

I am calling out TSJCT for his lack of professionalism, as evidenced by his public threats and his penchant for trying to induce "portfolio envy" in other members.

I see both sides of that. I know how concerned I am with the amount of money I have into COMC and he has many times that. I can only imagine how stressed out that would make him. I do not spite him for his reactions or comments on the matter at all. The only issue I have is minimizing others who have less than he does. I think that actually started by people minimizing his concerns and that got me upset as well so I can understand to a degree. He definately went too far with it but did apologize and removed some of the posts.

It is his right to vent, threaten to leave COMC and then to change his mind. Not sure why people have issue with that. True, at some point The Boy Who Cried Wolf kicks in but so be it. He did nothing personal to those here and I'm not sure where the scorn is coming from. Maybe there is backstory or history I am unaware of but just based on these posts I don't see much of a problem.

[h4auto]

I don't disagree that constructive criticism is important in the client-customer relationship and I commend COMC for being continually receptive to feedback. I am calling out TSJCT for his lack of professionalism, as evidenced by his public threats and his penchant for trying to induce "portfolio envy" in other members.


KEY WORDS "client-customer relationship".

It is a right as a customer to post and vent on policies or changes. COMC has been excellent in 99% of there posts and Customer Service responses. BUT, that is more the norm for businesses. I am sure when(if) any of COMC's contracting vendors(hosting,delivery,usps,etc..)screw up , COMC's owner is not as cordial when COMC becomes a unhappy "customer" of a paid service.(i have seen the BEST OWNERS become the WORST CUSTOMERS in the real world because they know there rights.) *NOTE: my dream would be that every user of ebay was a lawyer, that would interesting

COMC has an excellent CS team. but that is there job and they get paid to solve problems in a smooth way.

EBAY and PAYPAL = SUCKS CS. but they are that huge to say, fine quit. :mad:

[Cactuspies]

I see both sides of that. I know how concerned I am with the amount of money I have into COMC and he has many times that. I can only imagine how stressed out that would make him. I do not spite him for his reactions or comments on the matter at all. The only issue I have is minimizing others who have less than he does. I think that actually started by people minimizing his concerns and that got me upset as well so I can understand to a degree. He definately went too far with it but did apologize and removed some of the posts.

It is his right to vent, threaten to leave COMC and then to change his mind. Not sure why people have issue with that. True, at some point The Boy Who Cried Wolf kicks in but so be it. He did nothing personal to those here and I'm not sure where the scorn is coming from. Maybe there is backstory or history I am unaware of but just based on these posts I don't see much of a problem.

my main issue before I had to get all defensive yesterday is that these threads always happen over a weekend or holiday when no one is around from comc to answer. Is it planned that way, I don't know, but the last few are exactly like this. then it goes to a monday and boom it explodes with another post on the lines of what the start of this thread and others are like.

I think I'm on his ignore list now, so whatever. I never got an apology or one that didn't turn into **************.

Like you, besides my PC and base cards, they have everything of mine that I didn't move elsewhere.

swag never left after all was said and done, he just liquidated and stopped sending stuff - (I think- and I think ts purchased a good portion of swags stuff - don't quote me on that as it might have been R&S or someone else that took most of swags cards)

I agree there are head scratchers of some of the changes or proposed changes.

I'm small fish so what do I really know about life. :devil:

[jmscoggin]

my main issue before I had to get all defensive yesterday is that these threads always happen over a weekend or holiday when no one is around from comc to answer. Is it planned that way, I don't know, but the last few are exactly like this. then it goes to a monday and boom it explodes with another post on the lines of what the start of this thread and others are like.

I think I'm on his ignore list now, so whatever. I never got an apology or one that didn't turn into **************.

Like you, besides my PC and base cards, they have everything of mine that I didn't move elsewhere.

swag never left after all was said and done, he just liquidated and stopped sending stuff - (I think- and I think ts purchased a good portion of swags stuff - don't quote me on that as it might have been R&S or someone else that took most of swags cards)

I agree there are head scratchers of some of the changes or proposed changes.

I'm small fish so what do I really know about life. :devil:

Yep, I probably would not have made my thread without talking to Nathan first. I felt that was only fair to get his side of what I saw before airing laundry that may or may not have needed to be aired. When he not only confirmed my concerns but endorsed my getting input from BO I started my thread. That was a stand up thing for him to do. You can argue that is was the only thing to do as I could have done it anyways and he couldn't have been the good guy but I don't see it that way.

I truly believe that they want to do right but they aren't here in the trenches. BO members are probably some of the most hardcore buyers, sellers and traders in the hobby. If something is good, bad or indifferent someone here will know about it and have a better mousetrap. COMC would be dumb to not take advantage of that.

As I've said many times already, I do not like the direction things are going or the proposed changes but I'm going to remain calm but concerned for now. I think it is best that we all don't attack each other or minimize each others concerns here. It should not matter if you have $10 BV at COMC or $1,000,000. Everyone deserves to protect their assets.

[Dragonman]

Comc made things right for me once again. Sometimes venting helps. :)!

So you are staying again.....Just curious and dont take this the wrong way but how old are you

[TSJCT]

My personal opinion as a business owner is if your Going to make Money on the weekends then you should have people avail on the weekend. My business Offices are closed on the weekends but my CELL phone is always on in case a customer has a problem or a question on the weekends. We have all our Managers ON CALL and i feel that is a way to run a business. I did call yesterday morning and i was told COMC would no longer eat the cost of returns and the cards would go back in to each sellers account. After that i did vent. Later on i get a call from COMC and late last night i got another call from COMC. After long long discussions they did see where i was coming from on the Return issues and for myself we have made a head way for the future. I am not just working on the return issue for myself but for all sellers on COMC. I explained how Propsect Scammers work and it shined a light to COMC. I mean when players get called up the cards rise for a short period of time and then fall back after a few days and i explained how this could be a huge issue for them. That was just one example i let them know about. This whole thing would be avoided if it were not for the minority that take advantage of the return policy. Every day it seems more and more Scammers enter our market to make a quick buck and if they can not make that quick buck then by god they want to get their money back. It has been this way for a long time and its just getting worse day by day. Its the country we live in.

[yazevans]

I think it is best that we all don't attack each other or minimize each others concerns here. It should not matter if you have $10 BV at COMC or $1,000,000. Everyone deserves to protect their assets.

I agree completely, this is very reasonable.


How much value in cards do you have on COMC? I have $50k so I would think I have a vested interest. If you don't, then stfu.

Oh...

[Bottom9th]

I agree completely, this is very reasonable.



Oh...

I see what you did there! :)!

[37Jetson]

COMC seems to attract all of the Blowout Drama Queens and Chicken Littles.

Were these same folks not around when Ebay seemingly made a change for the worst every month for several years?

[cking]

COMC seems to attract all of the Blowout Drama Queens and Chicken Littles.

Were these same folks not around when Ebay seemingly made a change for the worst every month for several years?

I actually think they were around and they switched to COMC beacuse Ebay was treating them like crap. They thought they would get a better deal with COMC. I personally like COMC. Both sites have good points and bad points.

I like COMC because I dont have to worry about theft or waiting two weeks for someone to ship. And most importantly, I dont have to deal with someones crappy personalty or listen to the yo cuz mojo sick funky fly fresh lingo that some of the idiots on here use.

One thing I dont like about COMC is that I cant speak to the seller, unless I know who they are outside of the site.

I like Ebay because I can inquire further with a seller about the condition of a card.

I dont like Ebay because when you sell there the buyer pretty much has you by the balls for 45 days.

[Dragonman]

I went to the supermarket today,when i came out i saw someone backed into my car......I blame COMC for this and demand my cards back.

[Dragonman]

Oh forget it I talked to them on the phone and they said everything is ok and that is why I have car insurance......so forget it I am staying

[jmscoggin]

I agree completely, this is very reasonable.



Oh...

Yes, I got a little testy when someone was telling me that I was overreacting and minimized my concerns. I acted a little harsh but came around. I was wrong but it happens. Yes, I also liked what you did there. :)!

[h4auto]

Oh forget it I talked to them on the phone and they said everything is ok and that is why I have car insurance......so forget it I am staying

My Camaro dynoed at 545rwhp on pump gas LQ9 6.0 . Thanks COMC.

[peapod]

Some buyers wait months stockpiling cards before they ship. I am sure we will all be happy to get stuck with a return 5 months after we sell a card.

I'm not worried about getting back a switched card. I am worried about waking up one morning and seeing my account in the red because a high value card I sold has been returned months later.

I am also rethinking continuing to sell on COMC.

[TSJCT]

I spoke with Tim For quite a while today and Returns will be accepted. They say they will watch buyers that continue to send cards back but not sure how it will stop. I have marked all high end cards to be shipped back but leaving the rest up and will run a 50% auto accept sale as soon as i get the majority priced. Might take some time but it will get done. I understand they have to accept returns and that is the way it is. I will just move what i have. Dragon come on a buy a bunch so i can the cards gone quick. Returns are going to be an issue i can promise that. Good luck to all!

[Dragonman]

I buy and flip only vintage...Even with 50% off most of your vintage prices are too high to flip...which i am not knocking...Lets say your 1959 Ernie banks card books $80 you are asking $80 even at $40 i cant flip it...Nothing wrong with what your asking just no room

[TSJCT]

I buy and flip only vintage...Even with 50% off most of your vintage prices are too high to flip...which i am not knocking...Lets say your 1959 Ernie banks card books $80 you are asking $80 even at $40 i cant flip it...Nothing wrong with what your asking just no room

Yep i am no good at vintage at all. There will be some good deals to be had as i am to tired to reprice most of the cards so i am turning on the 50% auto accept now. Good luck in your flipping as there is money to be made.

[Dragonman]

just bought you a card from ya

[TSJCT]

just bought you a card from ya

thanks! I think it will be a good sale over the next month or so. I just said the heck with repricing them all and turned on that Auto accept. I had a batch of 6000 cards at 40% and they should be uploaded soon. Mainly 2013 bowman stuff so it should go quick also.

[peapod]

I won't be leaving anything in my port higher than $10. Not going to deal with surprises weeks after I consider a card gone.

Flipping is going to die a slow death on this site. You sell a card for $50 and then buy something else to flip and then surprise a few weeks later you have your old card back and are $50 in the hole? No thanks.

[peapod]

Now buyers have you buy the balls for as long as they hold your card without shipping it. Could be a year and you get the return surprise.

I actually think they were around and they switched to COMC beacuse Ebay was treating them like crap. They thought they would get a better deal with COMC. I personally like COMC. Both sites have good points and bad points.

I like COMC because I dont have to worry about theft or waiting two weeks for someone to ship. And most importantly, I dont have to deal with someones crappy personalty or listen to the yo cuz mojo sick funky fly fresh lingo that some of the idiots on here use.

One thing I dont like about COMC is that I cant speak to the seller, unless I know who they are outside of the site.

I like Ebay because I can inquire further with a seller about the condition of a card.

I dont like Ebay because when you sell there the buyer pretty much has you by the balls for 45 days.

[GoBeavs]

thanks! I think it will be a good sale over the next month or so. I just said the heck with repricing them all and turned on that Auto accept. I had a batch of 6000 cards at 40% and they should be uploaded soon. Mainly 2013 bowman stuff so it should go quick also.

I just used up all my store credit on your sale. Best of luck.

[TSJCT]

I just used up all my store credit on your sale. Best of luck.

Thanks and good luck to you also.

[XL5]

TSJCT starts a thread with hyperbolic complaining and bitching about COMC.
TSJCT insults other BO members, attacks COMC.
TSJCT edits out all his comments.
TSJCT says he has had personal contact with COMC, they "took care of him."
TSJCT turns thread into spam about his 50% off sales.



Repeat.

[Jeramy]

Give me your whole port for 10% and I'll take it.

[purejd86p]

TSJCT starts a thread with hyperbolic complaining and bitching about COMC.
TSJCT insults other BO members, attacks COMC.
TSJCT edits out all his comments.
TSJCT says he has had personal contact with COMC, they "took care of him."
TSJCT turns thread into spam about his 50% off sales.



Repeat.

This guy is unreal...:cool:

[TSJCT]

Give me your whole port for 10% and I'll take it.

ill pass but thanks.

[jmscoggin]

ill pass but thanks.

Lol, was way more polite and diplomatic than what came out of my mouth when I read his post and they aren't even my cards. :)!

[TSJCT]

Lol, was way more polite and diplomatic than what came out of my mouth when I read his post and they aren't even my cards. :)!

yes and seeing that 1500 have no book value and are HIGH END. I am moving more and more by the hour. May not take to long to get rid of the port one by one.

[jmscoggin]

yes and seeing that 1500 have no book value and are HIGH END. I am moving more and more by the hour. May not take to long to get rid of the port one by one.

I made an offer on three. Were you to accept, that will only leave you with 96,603. Yep, no time at all. :eek::eek: Man that is a lot of cards. Are you really going to start using Ebay? Talk about a time suck of listing, responding, packaging, shipping, dealing with returns, cases, nutjobs etc. No thank you. I really dislike the new proposed changes from COMC no doubt but I just can't deal with Ebay. I wish you luck either way.

Edit : Well I did my part, 3 of the 96,606 cards to me. Only 96,603 to go. Just curious how much room that takes up.

[TSJCT]

I made an offer on three. Were you to accept, that will only leave you with 96,603. Yep, no time at all. :eek::eek: Man that is a lot of cards. Are you really going to start using Ebay? Talk about a time suck of listing, responding, packaging, shipping, dealing with returns, cases, nutjobs etc. No thank you. I really dislike the new proposed changes from COMC no doubt but I just can't deal with Ebay. I wish you luck either way.

Edit : Well I did my part, 3 of the 96,606 cards to me. Only 96,603 to go. Just curious how much room that takes up.

I had all the High end stuff shipped back for ebay but it was only like 600 cards. I am going to just sell all the rest on COMC until they are gone at the 50% auto accept. I already had a 6000 Card lot being uploaded that showed due 6/30/2013 so those will be sold on COMC. That was my Last shipment. I will use Ebay for just the high end stuff. Thanks for the purchases.

[Jeramy]

Lol, was way more polite and diplomatic than what came out of my mouth when I read his post and they aren't even my cards. :)!

I guess I need to remember to put a sarcastic smiley next time. Too bad we don't have a whoosh one.

[jmscoggin]

I guess I need to remember to put a sarcastic smiley next time. Too bad we don't have a whoosh one.

Lol, I thought that may have been the case but with this place you can never be sure. I've had some absolutely insulting offers. Heck, I make low initial offers so I obviously have no issue with that but some people are just ridiculous.

[cruiserdaddy7]

TSJCT starts a thread with hyperbolic complaining and bitching about COMC.
TSJCT insults other BO members, attacks COMC.
TSJCT edits out all his comments.
TSJCT says he has had personal contact with COMC, they "took care of him."
TSJCT turns thread into spam about his 50% off sales.



Repeat.

Great post. He has threatened to take his ball and go home in the past so this isnt the first time. Not a fan of people who have the nerve to type posts and then edit it all out because they look foolish. Why even post at all if in the end you are going to erase it all?

[TSJCT]

Great post. He has threatened to take his ball and go home in the past so this isnt the first time. Not a fan of people who have the nerve to type posts and then edit it all out because they look foolish. Why even post at all if in the end you are going to erase it all?

The ball is going home. I am selling every card left at 50% auto accept with NO MORE shipments headed to COMC. I just bought a HUGE collection which COMC will never see. So yes i am done with COMC. I edited post to end the fighting back and forth but it did no good and i should have just left them up. I will be at the National set up so if you need to say anything to me in person please feel free to come on by my booth. Would much rather discuss in person rather than Internet anyway.

[jmscoggin]

The ball is going home. I am selling every card left at 50% auto accept with NO MORE shipments headed to COMC. I just bought a HUGE collection which COMC will never see. So yes i am done with COMC. I edited post to end the fighting back and forth but it did no good and i should have just left them up. I will be at the National set up so if you need to say anything to me in person please feel free to come on by my booth. Would much rather discuss in person rather than Internet anyway.

Lol, That is classic. :D:D:D:D:)!

Whether people agree or disagree, at the end of the day it is your investment to protect as you see fit. I'm not sure what you've done in the past to tick so many people off but based solely on this I see where you are coming from. I just have to wonder, is your parents basement big enough for 96,000 + cards? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[TSJCT]

Lol, That is classic. :D:D:D:D:)!

Whether people agree or disagree, at the end of the day it is your investment to protect as you see fit. I'm not sure what you've done in the past to tick so many people off but based solely on this I see where you are coming from. I just have to wonder, is your parents basement big enough for 96,000 + cards? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think they are mad lol. The basement is big if they would just be a little more quite during the day so i can concentrate on selling cards. I can not convince anyone i am selling out but i guess when all the cards are gone they will then believe me. I know i have said in the past i was done but COMC always came back and made it right. This time COMC DID NOT Make it right. Returns will be a BIG issue in the NEAR future for them. Ill sit back and watch as i can promise i will read a post where someone gets stuck hard. Prospectors will eat this return policy alive. And SILVER and GOLD coins will be a complete joke. I mean buy on Monday and if the price Falls just return them but if the price goes up and you can flip the coins on ebay for a profit keep em. Win win for the buyers now.

[peapod]

I am not sure about the attacks on TJ either but I see nothing he said as being wrong on this topic.

I'll play the Ebay return game if that's what's going to be done to me. Comc doesn't care. They get their fees no matter what happens.

[checkoutmydeals]

You can do what you want, of course, but here's some data:

* At present, out of about 97,000 unique listings, over 96,000 have an asking price of $20 or less. At 50% off asking price, those cards would be $10 or less. This is 98% of the bulk of your cards.

Do you really believe that there will be massive fraudulent exchanges on a grand enough scale on cards under $10? Sure, there might be some returns, but on stuff that cheap, they're probably legit. A person would have to contact COMC, pack the card, ship the card, wait for a refund.

* In one of your deleted posts, you gave a screenshot of your dashboard. You've been on COMC just under 2 years, and you've sold more than 61,000 cards for more than $272,000. That's an average of $373 per day in sales, 84 cards per day, $4.41 per card.

* Of those cards, how many do you seriously think will be returned for fraudulent reasons? 1 per day? 1 per week? 1 per month? How much legitimate sales will you have in that same time period? $300? $2,000? $10,000?

* How long will it take to list 143,000 cards on eBay with large, clear scans of the front and back of each card? Let's say you can do one listing every 4 minutes. That's 15 per hour. It would take about 9500 hours to get all those listings running. At 40 hours per week, you could get the job done in just under 5 years. Assuming you don't take time for silly things like eating or going to the bathroom.

* Assuming you're still selling at the same clip, you're looking at packing and shipping 84 cards per day. Out of 143,000 listings. Let's say you can locate each card, pack it, print a packing slip, print a shipping label, secure the envelope and get the cards to the post office in an average of 4 minutes per. That's about 5 1/2 hours every day that you'll be spending packing and shipping. So now you only have 2 1/2 hours to create new listings. So it'll take you about 19 years to catch up on your scanning.

Good thing, too. Because 97,500 unique listings on eBay will run about $4,929.95 per month with an Anchor Store, just for the listing fees. And eBay buyers aren't any less likely to make returns than COMC buyers. So you'd be spending a lot of time and money for very little net benefit.

OK, you decide. eBay is for the birds. So, you take the cards to the show. People won't make returns at shows. Right?

Well, sort of. You know who never, ever, ever returns a card? That shoplifter who just snuck 100 of your cards in his pocket while his buddy distracted you. Well, he might return. After he empties his pockets and comes back for another batch of your cards.

But not everyone who frequents a card show is a sneak thief or cutthroat. That guy at the end of your table is honest. The one who spent all 8 hours of the card show going through your entire stock and picked out 500 cards. And is now going through the stack to figure out which one he is going to purchase with the 50 cents in cash that he brought to the show. Whoops. He just left to go to the bathroom and got distracted by a gumball machine. So he only has a quarter left. So it'll take another 3 hours to whittle the pile down some more.

Anyway, best of luck in your new venture.

* Bonus factoid: If you're serious about the permanent 50% off auto-accept, you'd save about $30 in rent on July 1 by using the bulk editor to lower all of your prices by 50%. That is, assuming that all of your cards don't sell by July 1. Good luck!

[VeedonFleece]

You can do what you want, of course, but here's some data:

Good post but COMC would be better off without the likes of TJSCT and jmscoggin running about badmouthing them on card collecting forums - even if the pair of them are 'big dogs'. The two of them should set up their own site seeing as they both know exactly how somebody else's business should be run.

[yazevans]

I was upset and yes i edited post because COMC made things right on Returns.

Comc made things right for me once again. Sometimes venting helps.

TIM made things RIGHT for me thats all i can say.

Hooray!

I know i have said in the past i was done but COMC always came back and made it right. This time COMC DID NOT Make it right.

Wait, I'm confused :confused:

checkoutmydeals brings up a very good point...how frequent do you (and this is directed at anyone, not just TSJCT) expect returns to actually be, and is that enough to give up the other advantages that COMC provides over selling on eBay or at shows? Look at how many horrible eBay stories pop on these forums every day, several times a day.

This whole thread was based on TSJCT receiving one return and turning it into a slippery slope...TSJCT, have you received any returns since then, in almost a week?

[TSJCT]

You can do what you want, of course, but here's some data:

* At present, out of about 97,000 unique listings, over 96,000 have an asking price of $20 or less. At 50% off asking price, those cards would be $10 or less. This is 98% of the bulk of your cards.

Do you really believe that there will be massive fraudulent exchanges on a grand enough scale on cards under $10? Sure, there might be some returns, but on stuff that cheap, they're probably legit. A person would have to contact COMC, pack the card, ship the card, wait for a refund.

* In one of your deleted posts, you gave a screenshot of your dashboard. You've been on COMC just under 2 years, and you've sold more than 61,000 cards for more than $272,000. That's an average of $373 per day in sales, 84 cards per day, $4.41 per card.

* Of those cards, how many do you seriously think will be returned for fraudulent reasons? 1 per day? 1 per week? 1 per month? How much legitimate sales will you have in that same time period? $300? $2,000? $10,000?

* How long will it take to list 143,000 cards on eBay with large, clear scans of the front and back of each card? Let's say you can do one listing every 4 minutes. That's 15 per hour. It would take about 9500 hours to get all those listings running. At 40 hours per week, you could get the job done in just under 5 years. Assuming you don't take time for silly things like eating or going to the bathroom.

* Assuming you're still selling at the same clip, you're looking at packing and shipping 84 cards per day. Out of 143,000 listings. Let's say you can locate each card, pack it, print a packing slip, print a shipping label, secure the envelope and get the cards to the post office in an average of 4 minutes per. That's about 5 1/2 hours every day that you'll be spending packing and shipping. So now you only have 2 1/2 hours to create new listings. So it'll take you about 19 years to catch up on your scanning.

Good thing, too. Because 97,500 unique listings on eBay will run about $4,929.95 per month with an Anchor Store, just for the listing fees. And eBay buyers aren't any less likely to make returns than COMC buyers. So you'd be spending a lot of time and money for very little net benefit.

OK, you decide. eBay is for the birds. So, you take the cards to the show. People won't make returns at shows. Right?

Well, sort of. You know who never, ever, ever returns a card? That shoplifter who just snuck 100 of your cards in his pocket while his buddy distracted you. Well, he might return. After he empties his pockets and comes back for another batch of your cards.

But not everyone who frequents a card show is a sneak thief or cutthroat. That guy at the end of your table is honest. The one who spent all 8 hours of the card show going through your entire stock and picked out 500 cards. And is now going through the stack to figure out which one he is going to purchase with the 50 cents in cash that he brought to the show. Whoops. He just left to go to the bathroom and got distracted by a gumball machine. So he only has a quarter left. So it'll take another 3 hours to whittle the pile down some more.

Anyway, best of luck in your new venture.

* Bonus factoid: If you're serious about the permanent 50% off auto-accept, you'd save about $30 in rent on July 1 by using the bulk editor to lower all of your prices by 50%. That is, assuming that all of your cards don't sell by July 1. Good luck!

I am SELLING the cards i have left at COMC i am not taking them back. I just had all my High End sent back. I am not sending in anymore batches and will just adjust on how i BUY collections. No more of the Low end Serial #D, Insert, Etc. I will just Buy and Sell HIGH END from this point and do it at Shows or Ebay. No bigger audience than Ebay for High end. I can at least BLOCK buyers and have the control on Shipping if i am FORCED to take returns. I take extra steps to ensure a package arrives in good condition when i ship and i have no idea what COMC does to prepare for shipping. Ebay offers FREE listings and LOWER selling fees than COMC right now. Just a no brainer for me. I understand COMC will be great for some and not so great for others. When COMC started it was for the Lower End cards and it was great. But at .25 each to list and 20% cashout it has changed. Then the new Return policy just made it worse. Business models change and i understand that but i have to do what is a Smart business move on my part also. I just feel COMC is climbing over a DOLLAR to grab a nickel. Just look at the amount i have consigned and how much Listing fees that was. Yes COMC makes some off the shipping from buyers, but no where near what they make off the listing fees and cash out fees. Wish the best to all sellers on COMC as i am sure it will be great for those who choose to use it.

[TSJCT]

Hooray!



Wait, I'm confused :confused:

checkoutmydeals brings up a very good point...how frequent do you (and this is directed at anyone, not just TSJCT) expect returns to actually be, and is that enough to give up the other advantages that COMC provides over selling on eBay or at shows? Look at how many horrible eBay stories pop on these forums every day, several times a day.

This whole thread was based on TSJCT receiving one return and turning it into a slippery slope...TSJCT, have you received any returns since then, in almost a week?

I was told before the last Phone call from Tim that the return policy would be upgraded to protect sellers then i after that last phone call i was JAW dropped. Tim said the cards i got back were from a BUYER that buys cards to get them in hand and if he does not see them getting a GEM MINT 10 he returns them. He saves money to buy 100 cards to be shipped to him and then weeds out the ones that will not grade 10. Comc accepts these back as the return policy he said can not stop this. COMC knows what this guy is doing and still lets this happen. As a business person myself i want NO PART of a deal like this. So with that being said, that is the reason i am through sending cards in.

[jmscoggin]

Good post but COMC would be better off without the likes of TJSCT and jmscoggin running about badmouthing them on card collecting forums - even if the pair of them are 'big dogs'. The two of them should set up their own site seeing as they both know exactly how somebody else's business should be run.

What a freaking tool. Listen jackarse, go back and search my history of posts and you will find that I've been the biggest COMC homer and cheerleader there is. BUT, I will not just blindly support anyone or anything if they change the things that made me support them. As I've said before, it is exactly thinking like yours that lets the Enron's and Madoff's of the world take advantage of people. I am not saying that is what COMC is doing but I choose to ask questions and protect my investment before the ship hits the iceberg not after. You sir, can kiss my arse.

[peapod]

What a surprise.
comd doing what he does best. Either offering a bunch of softball suggestions or kissing the a** of comc.

If you want your stuff returned to you months later after you cash out or have already invested in other product that is on you. but no other place allows returns a year after you make the purchase. it is asinine.

[peapod]

the site has stated their return rate is now about 4% so that means 4 out of every 100 cards you sell if it goes by the average will be returned. For someone who sells junk inserts it probably will not matter. For someone like me who sells higher end vintage it probably will matter a great deal. If they limited it to orders having to be shipped within a few days to qualify for returns I could see my way to accepting it. But not unlimited time while they wait to ship.

Hooray!



Wait, I'm confused :confused:

checkoutmydeals brings up a very good point...how frequent do you (and this is directed at anyone, not just TSJCT) expect returns to actually be, and is that enough to give up the other advantages that COMC provides over selling on eBay or at shows? Look at how many horrible eBay stories pop on these forums every day, several times a day.

This whole thread was based on TSJCT receiving one return and turning it into a slippery slope...TSJCT, have you received any returns since then, in almost a week?

[XL5]

I am not sure about the attacks on TJ either but I see nothing he said as being wrong on this topic.


That's because he edits his posts.

Here's the last time he threatened to take his ball and go home:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/ebay-checkoutmycards-online-selling-shows/521822-comc-inventory-mess-up.html

And he ended up spamming a 50% off sale.

[Cactuspies]

allz i know iz that $800k could buy some extra soundproofing or a larger home (even $400k could do that)

I agree with most of comd's post, even listing 600 cards on ebay is a PIA. I currently have just under 300 listed and it takes tons of time to get scans/pictures/listings/shipping all done on your own. there is a reason why bigboyd/tnt and others have "people" working for them. You cannot do this all alone.

That's because he edits his posts.

Here's the last time he threatened to take his ball and go home:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/ebay-checkoutmycards-online-selling-shows/521822-comc-inventory-mess-up.html

And he ended up spamming a 50% off sale.

Also don't forget when his inventory went "missing". still to this day I don't think we know what really happened.

Edit I can't find the thread about the missing inventory...so I might be wrong about who it happened to, or the thread was deleted.

[jmscoggin]

allz i know iz that $800k could buy some extra soundproofing or a larger home (even $400k could do that)

I agree with most of comd's post, even listing 600 cards on ebay is a PIA. I currently have just under 300 listed and it takes tons of time to get scans/pictures/listings/shipping all done on your own. there is a reason why bigboyd/tnt and others have "people" working for them. You cannot do this all alone.



Also don't forget when his inventory went "missing". still to this day I don't think we know what really happened.

Edit I can't find the thread about the missing inventory...so I might be wrong about who it happened to, or the thread was deleted.

I also agree with almost all of COMD's post. It is why even though I am not happy with the direction COMC is going, that I am choosing to give them a long leash. I thing TSJCT will regret this in the end but it is his business and inventory and his right to do as he pleases. I despise Ebay and the hassles that go with it. Nevermind the paying to ship back cards that I've already paid to have submitted.

Future sunmissions on the other hand are up in the air. I plan on seeing how COMC proceeds before deciding. I am truly shocked that COMC like Ebay can't see that their sellers are their most important customers. Without them they would not exist nor have buyers.

[Cactuspies]

I also agree with almost all of COMD's post. It is why even though I am not happy with the direction COMC is going, that I am choosing to give them a long leash. I thing TSJCT will regret this in the end but it is his business and inventory and his right to do as he pleases. I despise Ebay and the hassles that go with it. Nevermind the paying to ship back cards that I've already paid to have submitted.

Future sunmissions on the other hand are up in the air. I plan on seeing how COMC proceeds before deciding. I am truly shocked that COMC like Ebay can't see that their sellers are their most important customers. Without them they would not exist nor have buyers.

I'm with you right here in bold. I mentioned somewhere that I have stacks and boxes I have been saving up, but I have to see what the direction is from this point. did you see the new blog post about the store and ship? I know that is a CYA post but AAA has already nailed it on the first reply. Also doesn't AAA look like the guy from the baggage wars show? I know I haven't seen eye to eye with him at times, but he has been bringing up a lot of points in the shipping blogs much like the civil ones here.

[GoBeavs]

I was told before the last Phone call from Tim that the return policy would be upgraded to protect sellers then i after that last phone call i was JAW dropped. Tim said the cards i got back were from a BUYER that buys cards to get them in hand and if he does not see them getting a GEM MINT 10 he returns them. He saves money to buy 100 cards to be shipped to him and then weeds out the ones that will not grade 10. Comc accepts these back as the return policy he said can not stop this. COMC knows what this guy is doing and still lets this happen. As a business person myself i want NO PART of a deal like this. So with that being said, that is the reason i am through sending cards in.

This new information is a very valid concern. Had a major fact like this been presented from the beginning, I doubt there would have been so much spite thrown your way. I wasn't overly concerned with the odd card being return every now and then. However, if someone is doing something like this in bulk quantities, and it's being allowed, then I too most definitely share your concern.

A company can have a solid return policy without allowing things like this to take place. Reasonable limits can be put into place without hurting a company's integrity. Perhaps they could add a restocking fee to returns over a certain quantity. Or just limit the number of returns someone can make. I don't know if COMC is wanting to be the Nordstroms of the hobby, but that would seem to be a bad business model. This will definitely be a topic of discussion if I get a chance to talk to them this weekend.

[jmscoggin]

I'm with you right here in bold. I mentioned somewhere that I have stacks and boxes I have been saving up, but I have to see what the direction is from this point. did you see the new blog post about the store and ship? I know that is a CYA post but AAA has already nailed it on the first reply. Also doesn't AAA look like the guy from the baggage wars show? I know I haven't seen eye to eye with him at times, but he has been bringing up a lot of points in the shipping blogs much like the civil ones here.

I don't watch shipping wars but his blog comment was perfect. Short, sweet and succinct. I too have a large volume of cards sitting on standby waiting to be submitted but will hold off for now. Ebay isn't really an interest due to , well , being Ebay. Plus, at this point most are lower level cards that do great on COMC but are too much of a hassle for Ebay.

[Jester]

Hello. A couple of clarifications so that misinformation does not get repeated:

the site has stated their return rate is now about 4%

The Amazon.com return rate is between 3 and 4%. This is due to the combination of their one-click purchasing option, their universal return policy which all Amazon sellers must abide by, and the lower scan quality of images listed on their site. Amazon.com sales are significant, but not by any means the majority of COMC's business. The COMC.com return rate is much, much lower.

A feature we are planning to offer in the interest of transparency is providing each seller with a dashboard page reporting all of their cards which have been returned, and whether the transaction was actually reversed and the item was returned into their account or whether COMC absorbed the loss.


Tim said the cards i got back were from a BUYER that buys cards to get them in hand and if he does not see them getting a GEM MINT 10 he returns them. He saves money to buy 100 cards to be shipped to him and then weeds out the ones that will not grade 10. Comc accepts these back as the return policy he said can not stop this. COMC knows what this guy is doing and still lets this happen.

To clarify, we can and do stop this sort of behavior. The purpose of our return policy is to offer a greater sense of safety to buyers who would otherwise feel at risk when making an online purchase for a collectible item. It is not intended to enable high-grade speculation, etc and it is very easy for us to tell the difference between those two types of customer.

If we suspect this sort of behavior is occurring, or if a seller contacts us with a concern of this nature, we investigate. In the event that a buyer is abusing our policy, we contact that buyer and deal with this issue directly. In the case of duplicity, COMC protects our sellers and in many cases, absorbs the cost. We have means to curb this sort of abuse, up to and including banning the buyer from the site.

The fundamental rule is that COMC stands by its customers - both buyers and sellers - to ensure their satisfaction.
Thanks,
Jeremy

[checkoutmydeals]

At the risk of sounding like a suck-up, thanks for chiming in on this thread.

If we suspect this sort of behavior is occurring, or if a seller contacts us with a concern of this nature, we investigate.

At the risk of making a softball suggestion, sellers don't really have the tools available to make these determinations. There's no way for us to know how many of our cards a particular buyer has purchased, nor how many they've returned.

If they purchased through an offer, it will appear in our offer history, but my offer history is 1700 pages long, and I can't search or filter the list for a particular card or buyer.

If they purchased the card outright for full asking price, then we have no way of knowing who that person was. Maybe they bought 10 cards from me and returned 9. Maybe they bought 1,000 cards from me and returned 1.

I think some people around here are concerned with the "trust us we'll take care of it" aspect of this policy. They might be more comfortable if they had the ability to "trust, but verify".

[Ghumbs]

At the risk of sounding like a suck-up, thanks for chiming in on this thread.

If we suspect this sort of behavior is occurring, or if a seller contacts us with a concern of this nature, we investigate.

At the risk of making a softball suggestion, sellers don't really have the tools available to make these determinations. There's no way for us to know how many of our cards a particular buyer has purchased, nor how many they've returned.

If they purchased through an offer, it will appear in our offer history, but my offer history is 1700 pages long, and I can't search or filter the list for a particular card or buyer.

If they purchased the card outright for full asking price, then we have no way of knowing who that person was. Maybe they bought 10 cards from me and returned 9. Maybe they bought 1,000 cards from me and returned 1.

I think some people around here are concerned with the "trust us we'll take care of it" aspect of this policy. They might be more comfortable if they had the ability to "trust, but verify".

I think that's a completely fair assessment. I just wanted to reiterate the feature Jeremy mentioned. We're working to add a section to the Seller Dashboard that displays every return that comes back to the seller. You'll see the item that was returned, the reason for the return, and whether the item returned to your account or COMC absorbed the loss.

We hope that tool will empower sellers to see the types of returns they may get and contact us about any concerns they may have.

I want to thank everyone here for voicing their feedback. We're listening and are committed to keep COMC the safest place for both buyers and sellers :)!

Grant

[h4auto]

Great answers, but i will watch what happens for now... I am just giving my lower price cards away for free for now.

Packed and ready to ship but no where to go....:mad:
http://i.imgur.com/vZJZtkQ.jpg

[checkoutmydeals]

You're giving away cards for free because you can't stand the idea that someone might buy one and then return it?

[h4auto]

You're giving away cards for free because you can't stand the idea that someone might buy one and then return it?

Nope. i am giving them away because Paypal,ebay,usps,comc,etc makes more money then the sellers.... (if you follow my other posts, i got sick of the real estate investments because too many people make money of MY MONETARY RISKS)...

I been giving away cards the last few days... i even pay the postage...

Same as sending in cards or paying fees up front with ebay , comc and fedex or usps....

Not expensive cards.. all the $5.00 and under things i would have send out or sold...

I will still monitor how comc does, it has its uses and is great. BUT, what i dont understand is why comc is expanding to comic,antiques,coins etc on the expense of the CARD HOBBYIST.. if comc thinks those other hobbies are money makers, let the card hobby improve from THERE FEES i dont want to be financing features,storage,staff for a market i dont use.... Just weird decisions sometimes.................

Throwing GOOD MONEY at Bad money doesnt make sense.... expansion is not a good thing all the time...

[TSJCT]

Hello. A couple of clarifications so that misinformation does not get repeated:



The Amazon.com return rate is between 3 and 4%. This is due to the combination of their one-click purchasing option, their universal return policy which all Amazon sellers must abide by, and the lower scan quality of images listed on their site. Amazon.com sales are significant, but not by any means the majority of COMC's business. The COMC.com return rate is much, much lower.

A feature we are planning to offer in the interest of transparency is providing each seller with a dashboard page reporting all of their cards which have been returned, and whether the transaction was actually reversed and the item was returned into their account or whether COMC absorbed the loss.




To clarify, we can and do stop this sort of behavior. The purpose of our return policy is to offer a greater sense of safety to buyers who would otherwise feel at risk when making an online purchase for a collectible item. It is not intended to enable high-grade speculation, etc and it is very easy for us to tell the difference between those two types of customer.

If we suspect this sort of behavior is occurring, or if a seller contacts us with a concern of this nature, we investigate. In the event that a buyer is abusing our policy, we contact that buyer and deal with this issue directly. In the case of duplicity, COMC protects our sellers and in many cases, absorbs the cost. We have means to curb this sort of abuse, up to and including banning the buyer from the site.

The fundamental rule is that COMC stands by its customers - both buyers and sellers - to ensure their satisfaction.
Thanks,
Jeremy

Wrong. Tim told me he was going to start charging a restocking fee for this individual but he could continue the same old bgs 10 deal. Now if you want to chime in have the facts straight or go talk with tim

[peapod]

This panel and so called assurances by comc staff do not satisfy me. I have been speaking with several other sellers on facebook who feel the same way. I am not going to accept a return weeks or months after I sold something and if that is what comc is expecting me to do then sportlots will get my listings going forward. My vintage does better there anyway and at least there if a customer wants to return they must do so in a reasonable time frame.

comc is the boss of their site and if they want to push policy that runs sellers off then other sites will benefit. I am not scared of doing the work myself. I'll continue to buy because comc has always allowed buyers to return cards. only one getting screwed now is the seller.

[sjscout]

This panel and so called assurances by comc staff do not satisfy me. I have been speaking with several other sellers on facebook who feel the same way. I am not going to accept a return weeks or months after I sold something and if that is what comc is expecting me to do then sportlots will get my listings going forward. My vintage does better there anyway and at least there if a customer wants to return they must do so in a reasonable time frame.

comc is the boss of their site and if they want to push policy that runs sellers off then other sites will benefit. I am not scared of doing the work myself. I'll continue to buy because comc has always allowed buyers to return cards. only one getting screwed now is the seller.

NOt being a jerk, and not being offensive, but how many items have you had returned thus far?

[peapod]

I have returned 2 items and called and they refunded a third item without a return. In all cases what looked to be print lines on a card turned out to be creases.

But I get my items shipped within 48 hours when I buy. I don't wait weeks or months.

So your point is?

My point was that comc has always allowed returns so their claim that this change somehow helps buyer confidence is bs. All this does is drop surprise balance reductions on sellers accounts.

[sjscout]

[QUOTE=peapod;5140808]I have returned 2 items and called and they refunded a third item without a return. In all cases what looked to be print lines on a card turned out to be creases.

But I get my items shipped within 48 hours when I buy. I don't wait weeks or months.

So your point is?

My point was that comc has always allowed returns so their claim that this change somehow helps buyer confidence is bs. All this does is drop surprise balance reductions on sellers accounts.[/QUOTE

not trying to make a point, hence why I said do not take offense.

I have a decent port but no tsjct...I have not had a return. I cannot see your comc link so I am unsure who you are or your scenario.

It seems that the person complaining is the person with the 2nd highest bv on the site. Therefore, he will get more returns than most. Just wondering if he is crying a lil too much and influencing others who have not had issues. I have over 3000 sales past 8 months and zero returns.

I agree, returns should have to be within a specific time limit( say 14 days from purchase and if a buyer doesn't want to ship right away, then they should give up their right of return.)

Just haven't seen a problem on my end at all.

[Dragonman]

Ive had 5 returns....But the returns don't bother me...I see both sides

[peapod]

I misunderstood your question.. 3 issues is what I have had as a buyer in 2 years. As a seller the answer is more recently than I have ever returned myself.

But it does seem we agree on what my big problem with this is. Not them sticking us with returns but the time frame they are allowing it. Anything more than 14 days is not acceptable to me.


[QUOTE=peapod;5140808]I have returned 2 items and called and they refunded a third item without a return. In all cases what looked to be print lines on a card turned out to be creases.

But I get my items shipped within 48 hours when I buy. I don't wait weeks or months.

So your point is?

My point was that comc has always allowed returns so their claim that this change somehow helps buyer confidence is bs. All this does is drop surprise balance reductions on sellers accounts.[/QUOTE

not trying to make a point, hence why I said do not take offense.

I have a decent port but no tsjct...I have not had a return. I cannot see your comc link so I am unsure who you are or your scenario.

It seems that the person complaining is the person with the 2nd highest bv on the site. Therefore, he will get more returns than most. Just wondering if he is crying a lil too much and influencing others who have not had issues. I have over 3000 sales past 8 months and zero returns.

I agree, returns should have to be within a specific time limit( say 14 days from purchase and if a buyer doesn't want to ship right away, then they should give up their right of return.)

Just haven't seen a problem on my end at all.

[peapod]

Ive had 5 returns....But the returns don't bother me...I see both sides


If you don't mind me asking how long ago were those cards sold?

[hundley]

I wish that amazon buyer would return that Mike Trout Bowman Platinum autograph I sold them for $48.

[h4auto]

I GOT THE SOLUTION. how about SELLERS Remorse. Sellers can ask for cards back or decide not to sell the card..... make it a FAIR deal and a two way street.


I always give this explanation to people. "FAIR is when the 1st person gives the 2nd person $1.00 and the 2nd person gives the first person $1.00. They both would be willing to change sides" "unfair is when on person is giving $2.00 and the other gives $1.00 back" In the second situation, one person is NOT WILLING to trade sides, that is unfair.

Just a general opinion.. lol

People should just go on Amazon(not only comcs account,any account) and buy all the PUIGS and hold them for the "return" duration.., That is the safest investment in the universe... if i could do that with any metals,stock or ?????? i would be a millionaire...lol:cool:

[timgetsch]

Wrong. Tim told me he was going to start charging a restocking fee for this individual but he could continue the same old bgs 10 deal. Now if you want to chime in have the facts straight or go talk with tim

Wow, it is really interesting to see how a 4 card return for a total of $9.25 can spark such passionate discussion. Thank you to everyone for chiming in. This is all very valuable input.

I imagine the public would like to hear the full context of our discussion.

Yes, I did tell TSJCT that we have informed one of our buyers that he will be charged a restocking fee if he continues to have an abnormally high rate of returns.

This does not mean that we have a new return policy. This really gets to the heart of our return policy. We intentionally have just about as simple a return policy as possible. That is because we operate by the following "return theory".

1. Complex return policies translate into lost sales and missed opportunities
2. Abuse of the return policy should be handled on a case-by-case basis rather than continually adapting and making the return policy more complex

We are in a unique position to be able to offer #2 because of the following factors.
- Our quality images, accurate meta-data, and professional shipping significantly reduce the rate of returns as compared with others in our industry.
- We manually process all returns for all of our sellers. So we have an opportunity to apply judgment and discretion instead of having to enforce a rigid one-size-fits-all return policy.

Other sites can't really offer something quite like this, but it allows our sellers to have the best of both worlds. They get the upside of more sales due to a buyer friendly return policy without the risk of it getting exploited.

Also, the 99.9% of buyers that are not adversely taxing the return policy get the assurance and benefit of an extremely simple and straight forward return policy. And, the 0.1% of buyers that are trying to work the system or may have found a loophole get a personalized return policy.

These personalized polices could include any of the following:
- a friendly reminder to please carefully review the zoomed scans before buying
- charging a restocking fee that is appropriate to keep return levels to a point that won't annoy sellers
- not being allowed to make returns
- being banned from using the site

In practice we have had more than 50,000 buyers and we have maybe had to do a handful of personalized return policies. The vast majority of buyers don't abuse the generous return policy.

That is the return policy from the buyer's point of view, and that hasn't changed since day one of the website more than 7 years ago.

From the seller's point of view, we had to make a change once we started offering our Amazon integration. Amazon returns are on the order of 100 times more common than COMC returns. Prior to Amazon we eat the expense of nearly every return. Post Amazon, we simply couldn't afford to continue that practice.

About a year ago I added the ability for my team to easily reverse an entire order and put the items back into the previous seller's inventory. This helped us efficiently handle cases where Amazon customers would cancel orders before we had even shipped them. If the customer mailed the items back, we would do an extra step where we would manually verify that every item was identical to what we shipped out.

If an item doesn't match the original we sent out, it will not go back to the previous seller. Instead we will either absorb the return with our staff account or we will reject the return.

The only thing that changed recently is that I added the ability for my team to partially reverse an order because sometimes people would only return a few items out of a larger order. This allows us to keep our cost of processing returns low so that we don't have to find some other way to raise money to cover the cost of returns.

Since most returns are entire orders instead of partial returns, this shouldn't have a significant impact over what sellers experienced over the previous year. But just to be safe, we are adding some extra transparency thanks to the conversation with TSJCT. We will be adding a section to the dashboard that shows the seller their returns as well as who covered the cost (them vs. us) and any restocking fee they received. Sellers can then inform us if they spot any trends that might be an abuse of our return policy.

We hope that this clarifies how our return policy is designed to provide the best experience for both buyers and sellers.

[TheHeel]

Tim is a class act.

[timgetsch]

People should just go on Amazon(not only comcs account,any account) and buy all the PUIGS and hold them for the "return" duration.., That is the safest investment in the universe... if i could do that with any metals,stock or ?????? i would be a millionaire...lol:cool:

Not recommended... According to Amazon, they will ban buyers that abuse or try to exploit the return policy.

[h4auto]

Not recommended... According to Amazon, they will ban buyers that abuse or try to exploit the return policy.

Sometimes its too late for recovery. If a seller has ONE bad experience , it could cause the lost of that seller(customer) for life.

I am just back into COMC after a year. COMC lost me as a bulk buyer, i bought a few thousand cards the first few months to take Delivery a few years back because of the shipping fees.

I am giving comc a try again but as a seller of low end cards this time. I would have probably bought 10,000's or even 100,000's of cards by now. but didnt because of the first few experiences with shipping cost.

http://i.imgur.com/YfKcOnw.png

I stopped selling on ebay because of constant policy changes.. i was doing $5,000 = $15,000 gross sales a month... but stopped cold turkey and never returned to ebay as a seller....
http://i.imgur.com/rTjExXz.jpg


You have a great thing going,


I KNOW I AM JUST A PIECE OF SAND in your companies gross sales, but dont underestimate the many "lurkers" that dont express there feelings. they feel the same way has the people complaining on the thread.

PS: if you look WAY back and can find it, i sent you an email wanting to be an investor in your company. but got no response. THAT IS HOW GREAT I THOUGHT COMC WAS the first time i discovered your website.

[VeedonFleece]

What a freaking tool. Listen jackarse, go back and search my history of posts and you will find that I've been the biggest COMC homer and cheerleader there is. BUT, I will not just blindly support anyone or anything if they change the things that made me support them. As I've said before, it is exactly thinking like yours that lets the Enron's and Madoff's of the world take advantage of people. I am not saying that is what COMC is doing but I choose to ask questions and protect my investment before the ship hits the iceberg not after. You sir, can kiss my arse.

Many apologies. I mistook you for somebody who has been badmouthing COMC recently across multiple threads, even questioning their integrity. I didn't realise you were their self-styled 'biggest cheerleader'. Who needs enemies when they have friends like that?

[TSJCT]

edit! I am just going to leave this thread to you guys I am done arguing. I wish all the Buyers/Sellers the best of luck.

[jmscoggin]

Many apologies. I mistook you for somebody who has been badmouthing COMC recently across multiple threads, even questioning their integrity. I didn't realise you were their self-styled 'biggest cheerleader'. Who needs enemies when they have friends like that?

Just when I think you can't get dumber or more clueless you find a way to amaze me. Congrats, that takes effort. :)! I have not attacked their integrity nor have I badmouthed them per se. Yes, I am very critical of their new changes and direction and will not apologize for that. I have a lot of money on the line and feel that it is my right to be concerned.

Are you really so dense that you just blindly follow someone or something regardless if it changes paths and is no longer what it once was? Nevermind, I'm sure I know the answer. Instead of personally attacking people, why don't you try to add something to the actual conversation. I never said one word to you but you have felt compelled to call me out over multiple threads. Instead of having anything constructive to say you just spew nonsense.

[Dragonman]

If you don't mind me asking how long ago were those cards sold?
Don't know and don't really care

[peapod]

well I am sure comc will be happy to know you don't care. That is just the kind of care-less amateur hour thinking comc is hoping will be the norm. no real business takes returns months or years later.

[Ghumbs]

One concern I've seen throughout the thread that I want to clear up is about the time frame in which buyers are able to return items. As stated in our return policy:
If you ever get a card that you are not satisfied with, let us know within seven days and we will gladly issue a refund.
That means that customers who purchase an item on COMC.com only have 7 days from the date of purchase (not date of shipment, nor date of arrival) to let us know they're not satisfied with the item and want to return it.

In the event a buyer ships an item down the road and it arrives damaged:
If merchandise is damaged upon arrival, please contact us within seven days. Return your purchase in its original packaging within 14 days, and we will issue a full refund including postage upon arrival. We do not charge restocking fees.
If these items are returned to us in the same condition as they were when they were processed, the transaction may be reversed and the item would be returned to the seller's account.

However, should we choose to process a return outside of that 7 day window, or the item is returned in different condition than it was when processed, COMC will absorb that loss. There may be some exceptions to this, such as a return of a counterfeit or altered item, which we would handle on a case by case basis.

We want to be transparent with our sellers regarding what types of returns they may get. For this reason, we are designing the feature Jeremy mentioned earlier where sellers can see all of their returns from their Dashboard, including the reason for the return and whether the transaction was reversed or COMC absorbed the loss. If you're ever uncomfortable with a specific return, I'd encourage you to email or call Customer Relations.

Additionally, we want to keep our return policy as simple as possible for buyers, providing them with the confidence to purchase items while knowing they will be taken care of if they're unsatisfied.

So I don't want any of you to think you're going to get your cards returned to you 6 months from now because a player gets injured or doesn't perform. That's just not going to happen.

Grant

[h4auto]

Just too many COMC workers answering the question. All slightly different interpretation. Even the Video explanation is different.

Bummer.

[peapod]

grant thanks for taking the time to write this. 7 days is a fair enough return policy.

[cking]

One concern I've seen throughout the thread that I want to clear up is about the time frame in which buyers are able to return items. As stated in our return policy:

That means that customers who purchase an item on COMC.com only have 7 days from the date of purchase (not date of shipment, nor date of arrival) to let us know they're not satisfied with the item and want to return it.

In the event a buyer ships an item down the road and it arrives damaged:

If these items are returned to us in the same condition as they were when they were processed, the transaction may be reversed and the item would be returned to the seller's account.

However, should we choose to process a return outside of that 7 day window, or the item is returned in different condition than it was when processed, COMC will absorb that loss. There may be some exceptions to this, such as a return of a counterfeit or altered item, which we would handle on a case by case basis.

We want to be transparent with our sellers regarding what types of returns they may get. For this reason, we are designing the feature Jeremy mentioned earlier where sellers can see all of their returns from their Dashboard, including the reason for the return and whether the transaction was reversed or COMC absorbed the loss. If you're ever uncomfortable with a specific return, I'd encourage you to email or call Customer Relations.

Additionally, we want to keep our return policy as simple as possible for buyers, providing them with the confidence to purchase items while knowing they will be taken care of if they're unsatisfied.

So I don't want any of you to think you're going to get your cards returned to you 6 months from now because a player gets injured or doesn't perform. That's just not going to happen.

Grant

Not that I would ever return a card based on a players performance or injury staus but I do have a question. I keep cards in my port for long periods of time. In fact I have cards in my port right now that have been in there for almost a year. If I choose to ship them next week and something arrives damaged will I be able to return that item? And how will the return be handled.Will the seller have to eat the loss or does COMC take the loss?

[Brad]

Not that I would ever return a card based on a players performance or injury staus but I do have a question. I keep cards in my port for long periods of time. In fact I have cards in my port right now that have been in there for almost a year. If I choose to ship them next week and something arrives damaged will I be able to return that item? And how will the return be handled.Will the seller have to eat the loss or does COMC take the loss?

Read Grant's post again. He answered those questions.

[Ghumbs]

Not that I would ever return a card based on a players performance or injury staus but I do have a question. I keep cards in my port for long periods of time. In fact I have cards in my port right now that have been in there for almost a year. If I choose to ship them next week and something arrives damaged will I be able to return that item? And how will the return be handled.Will the seller have to eat the loss or does COMC take the loss?

This would be covered under the second policy I posted. If the item is damaged and you contact us within 7 days of receiving the item and ship it back within 14 days, we will accept the return. We will take a look at the original scan alongside the returned item to determine whether the item is in the same condition it was in when processed. If that damage was not present when we processed the item, COMC will take the loss.

Grant

[37Jetson]

This entire Cluster of a thread is over $9.25 in returned cards? Holy cow with this much emotion I would have thought somebody had their car repossessed. Nothing surprises me on Today's Blowout.

Wow, it is really interesting to see how a 4 card return for a total of $9.25 can spark such passionate discussion. .

[Dragonman]

And in another month or two Comc will make another change and the same girls will come on here complain, claim they are taking all their cards home,cry ,moan and the thread will go on for 9 pages and it will all blow over until the next crisis.

Oh yea then they will send another shipment of cards in.

[peapod]

I must have missed a ton of past stuff around here...

[cruiserdaddy7]

And in another month or two Comc will make another change and the same girls will come on here complain, claim they are taking all their cards home,cry ,moan and the thread will go on for 9 pages and it will all blow over until the next crisis.

Oh yea then they will send another shipment of cards in.

Also a certain member will change their previous posts crying to simply: ************************************************************************************

I get people possibly having complaints with something. Why not take it up with the company and give them a chance to respond? Why make threats and not back them up? Im still not sure what to think of COMC after all this but I know for sure what to think of certain sellers.

[cking]

This would be covered under the second policy I posted. If the item is damaged and you contact us within 7 days of receiving the item and ship it back within 14 days, we will accept the return. We will take a look at the original scan alongside the returned item to determine whether the item is in the same condition it was in when processed. If that damage was not present when we processed the item, COMC will take the loss.

Grant

Thank you. I just like to ship everything at once. I have never returned a card once to COMC. I have had a few arrive with some minor nicks and dings. Nothing major. If I get a batch of 200 cards in and 5 or 6 have a slight flaw I will consider that a success. The only cards I do stay away from on COMC is old refractors from 1997-2001 or so. They seem to get that dingy nasty surface very easily and you cannot tell in the scan at all. That is not COMCs fault.Is it what it is. Thanks for your help.

[Cactuspies]

This entire Cluster of a thread is over $9.25 in returned cards? Holy cow with this much emotion I would have thought somebody had their car repossessed. Nothing surprises me on Today's Blowout.

This would be covered under the second policy I posted. If the item is damaged and you contact us within 7 days of receiving the item and ship it back within 14 days, we will accept the return. We will take a look at the original scan alongside the returned item to determine whether the item is in the same condition it was in when processed. If that damage was not present when we processed the item, COMC will take the loss.

Grant

Thank you. I just like to ship everything at once. I have never returned a card once to COMC. I have had a few arrive with some minor nicks and dings. Nothing major. If I get a batch of 200 cards in and 5 or 6 have a slight flaw I will consider that a success. The only cards I do stay away from on COMC is old refractors from 1997-2001 or so. They seem to get that dingy nasty surface very easily and you cannot tell in the scan at all. That is not COMCs fault.Is it what it is. Thanks for your help.

Awesome stuff here (especially the amount this is over). Great clarification and to have Tim chime in was good to see.

**********************************************

[peapod]

I never thought this thread was about one person over 4 cards. I thought it was about concern over a return policy. My concern has been answered and I am happy. bringing personal bs attacks to this doesn't do anybody any good and Tim is partially to blame because he never should have mentioned the transaction specifics. that was uncalled for and did nothing but fan the flames. tj is still a paying customer and should be treated respectfully by the site owner.

[XL5]

edit! I am just going to leave this thread to you guys I am done arguing. I wish all the Buyers/Sellers the best of luck.
Think about this next time you want to start yet another COMC thread.

[XL5]

I never thought this thread was about one person over 4 cards. I thought it was about concern over a return policy. My concern has been answered and I am happy. bringing personal bs attacks to this doesn't do anybody any good and Tim is partially to blame because he never should have mentioned the transaction specifics. that was uncalled for and did nothing but fan the flames. tj is still a paying customer and should be treated respectfully by the site owner.
TSJCT was the one bringing up his hundreds of thousands of cards, throwing out shipping cost numbers, etc. Playing the baller. It think it's very illuminating having both sides. TSJCT volunteered the information first, Tim was just filling in the rest.

[h4auto]

$9 in returns... COMC should have just ate the return. not worth the problems . COMC can write the loss off if they are a profitable company.

[jmscoggin]

TSJCT was the one bringing up his hundreds of thousands of cards, throwing out shipping cost numbers, etc. Playing the baller. It think it's very illuminating having both sides. TSJCT volunteered the information first, Tim was just filling in the rest.

I definately see both sides and Tim has the right to defend his company no doubt. However, I don't see the logic in insulting one of your best customers (or any customer for that matter). The amount of money that TJSCT has given to COMC has to be pretty staggering. If I was Tim I would be trying to keep him happy, not continuing to alienate him.

I welcome Tim's input and think it is awesome but if anyone thinks this is only over four cards and $9.25 they are missing the bigger picture. That is but one example and the overall scope is potentially much larger. Tim could have illustrated his points without specifically mentioning TJSCT although I understand why he would have wanted to.

Having said all of that, I am pretty ok with where things are right now. I have opted out of the Amazon selling so that takes away most of the return issues although not all. I also like the solution of adding return info to the dashboard. That is a great idea and will let all of us know how big of a problem this is or isn't. I still would like the freedom to opt out of any and all returns but for now I will see how this shakes out.

Tim, no buyer or seller will ever agree 100% with everything a company decides to do. That is certainly the case here. But, I am floored by you and your employees eagerness to not only welcome feedback but to solicit it, use it and respond to it. Well done sir and I hope that you use it to continue to make COMC a great tool for the hobby and line your pockets at the same time. :)!:)! Just don't be in such a hurry to grow so fast you forget who the core is like Ebay has done. Without sellers, you have no business.

[peapod]

Tim could have made his points without discussing the value of the returns. He made it personal which as a ceo you should not do. not professional at all IMO.

[bobthewondercat]

Just WOW.

It's hard to imagine a company run more professionally than COMC. Virtually unmatched in this hobby / business. Imagine this kind of dispute with eBay, Topps, Beckett, etc.

NO ONE has been hurt by this return policy. The tone of panic and threats of lost business by TSJCT and others in a public forum have stirred up much misinformation and misplaced frustration. Reps from the company including the owner join in the discussion politely and patiently explain the situation -- ALL of the fears are misplaced, VERY LITTLE abuse of returns has been occurring, and it has been dealt with appropriately.

And STILL people are complaining about this company?

You might not like their fees, their business model, or their website, but give COMC credit -- they are run the way a company should be run. Have some perspective, and be reasonable, before you post unfounded complaints about what they MIGHT do, or ways YOU THINK the company may go the wrong direction in the future.

Thanks Tim and team for being professional and having a great site. I don't sell there, and just buy from time to time, but it is refreshing to see a company that is run like a real business, and is patient and courteous with their customers in the sportscard world, where that is unfortunately far from the norm.

[smackvay]

Yep, I probably would not have made my thread without talking to Nathan first. I felt that was only fair to get his side of what I saw before airing laundry that may or may not have needed to be aired. When he not only confirmed my concerns but endorsed my getting input from BO I started my thread. That was a stand up thing for him to do. You can argue that is was the only thing to do as I could have done it anyways and he couldn't have been the good guy but I don't see it that way.

I truly believe that they want to do right but they aren't here in the trenches. BO members are probably some of the most hardcore buyers, sellers and traders in the hobby. If something is good, bad or indifferent someone here will know about it and have a better mousetrap. COMC would be dumb to not take advantage of that.

As I've said many times already, I do not like the direction things are going or the proposed changes but I'm going to remain calm but concerned for now. I think it is best that we all don't attack each other or minimize each others concerns here. It should not matter if you have $10 BV at COMC or $1,000,000. Everyone deserves to protect their assets.

LOL coming from you:)!

[jmscoggin]

LOL coming from you:)!

You can LOL all you want but it is misguided. I never minimize anyone when they have a legitimate concern. You have felt the need to troll me lately without adding anything at all other than to try to make me look like something I am not. How is that working for you? I really don't care as you mean less than nothing to me. Check my history and you will see that I constantly go out of my way to help people or be constructive. Have fun with this though. I guess it is kind of cool that I rate high enough that you keep spending your time following me around. Thank you.

[h4auto]

Just WOW.

It's hard to imagine a company run more professionally than COMC. Virtually unmatched in this hobby / business. Imagine this kind of dispute with eBay, Topps, Beckett, etc.

NO ONE has been hurt by this return policy. The tone of panic and threats of lost business by TSJCT and others in a public forum have stirred up much misinformation and misplaced frustration. Reps from the company including the owner join in the discussion politely and patiently explain the situation -- ALL of the fears are misplaced, VERY LITTLE abuse of returns has been occurring, and it has been dealt with appropriately.

And STILL people are complaining about this company?

You might not like their fees, their business model, or their website, but give COMC credit -- they are run the way a company should be run. Have some perspective, and be reasonable, before you post unfounded complaints about what they MIGHT do, or ways YOU THINK the company may go the wrong direction in the future.

Thanks Tim and team for being professional and having a great site. I don't sell there, and just buy from time to time, but it is refreshing to see a company that is run like a real business, and is patient and courteous with their customers in the sportscard world, where that is unfortunately far from the norm.

100% Agree up till this issue.

I think Tim as to take a step back and look what success has done to him and the company. The direction COMC is going is away from the collectors. COMC is STILL great and they run a great "ship". but its not going in the right direction.... .IN MY OPINION..

[37Jetson]

If COMC was to think like this they would get labeled as an easy target and then the multitudes of returns would threaten their business. Sorry, but this was a smart and necessary business decision from COMC. I loved having this feature for free, but it is not realsitic in the real world of business.

$9 in returns... COMC should have just ate the return. not worth the problems . COMC can write the loss off if they are a profitable company.

[hundley]

Just WOW.

It's hard to imagine a company run more professionally than COMC. Virtually unmatched in this hobby / business. Imagine this kind of dispute with eBay, Topps, Beckett, etc.

NO ONE has been hurt by this return policy. The tone of panic and threats of lost business by TSJCT and others in a public forum have stirred up much misinformation and misplaced frustration. Reps from the company including the owner join in the discussion politely and patiently explain the situation -- ALL of the fears are misplaced, VERY LITTLE abuse of returns has been occurring, and it has been dealt with appropriately.

And STILL people are complaining about this company?

You might not like their fees, their business model, or their website, but give COMC credit -- they are run the way a company should be run. Have some perspective, and be reasonable, before you post unfounded complaints about what they MIGHT do, or ways YOU THINK the company may go the wrong direction in the future.

Thanks Tim and team for being professional and having a great site. I don't sell there, and just buy from time to time, but it is refreshing to see a company that is run like a real business, and is patient and courteous with their customers in the sportscard world, where that is unfortunately far from the norm.
Well, to be fair, part of what has made COMC such a good site is that they've been pretty responsive to input from the users. They obviously can't make absolutely everybody happy all the time, but I'm of the belief that much of what the site is now has been a reaction to suggestions and concerns voiced by active users of the site.

An example of this was when they were talking about the official transition to what is now COMC and making the 25 cent shipping fee a requirement for every purchase, and everybody started complaining about how this was going to destroy flipping(which it would have!). On their blog I actually suggested they integrate a separate mode for flippers that waived this fee entirely, letting the user choose how they want to use the site in this regard. There was no mention of this feature before, but that mode actually appeared, verbatim, in the simplified shipping/advanced reselling modes that have been live on the site for a while now. I'm not innately egotistical enough to suggest that I came up with that first and it wasn't some notion kicked around their offices, but as this wasn't something they rolled out in their official summary, I feel like their inclusion of this was in large part because of the backlash they got when they announced this fairly large change. The whole thing felt like they took a step back and rethought their approach to accommodate a greater percentage of the userbase.

Actually another really evident example was the whole item strikes rule, which came to be because of about two or three unusually annoying flippers constantly hounding sellers with obnoxious lowball offers. I always thought that was a pretty effective compromise of their business model to compensate for a problem that was seriously bothering some users.

It's always disappointing to see people get way too worked up about this sort of thing, but I've seen enough in my couple years on the site to feel like the people in control of the site really are listening to input the userbase has. It's definitely not perfect or all-inclusive, but I feel like there's much more of a commitment there than most faceless organizations of this nature. They can't account for every viewpoint, but I think there's a substantially closer relationship between the creators of the site and the userbase. That the president of the company posted here himself is evidence of this, I don't think that was just damage control. I don't even really get the feeling that they discourage an 8 page heated discussion like this as long as it's generally revealing perspectives that they didn't see before. You get past the vitriol and cynicism that always seems to occur in these sorts of threads and I think you will find some reasonably clear pieces of input from people who have a pretty good idea of how to use the site, stuff that represents the viewpoints of a lot of users. I don't see it as complaining about COMC, I see it as useful feedback to make sure the business model accounts for perspectives that may not be as apparent to people who run the site and don't use it like the average buyer or seller does. Basically, as long as they keep listening, I feel like threads like this will remain useful.

Though I totally agree some people could definitely benefit from approaching the whole thing as feedback, less as some emotional spectacle, but it can be hard to remain cool-headed when you think you see the floor collapsing beneath you.

[peapod]

If COMC was to think like this they would get labeled as an easy target and then the multitudes of returns would threaten their business. Sorry, but this was a smart and necessary business decision from COMC. I loved having this feature for free, but it is not realsitic in the real world of business.

I agree. Eventually the costs of these returns would be passed to us in the way of higher sub fees. Grant explained the only thing I was upset about. Had they made the timeframe of return clearer at first I think much of the noise would have been suppressed and I certainly would not have raised an eyebrow.

[h4auto]

If COMC was to think like this they would get labeled as an easy target and then the multitudes of returns would threaten their business. Sorry, but this was a smart and necessary business decision from COMC. I loved having this feature for free, but it is not realsitic in the real world of business.

Only time will tell.

COMC should have just taken the $9 hit from a $3000 a month customer and not even said a word about it. Just smarter and necessary business decision that could have kept a huge customer happy and comc taking $3000 a month gross sales for who knows how many years in the future...

But who am i to say, its Tims business, he can do anything he wants. everyone can have opinions. BUT THE FINAL SAY IS TIMS....

RIGHT OR WRONG, it is his company.


Instead of sending my cards to sell, i am just GIVING THEM AWAY for FREE until i see what happens
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/contest/532289-freecardsfreecards-free-baseball-cards-codes.html

[XL5]

I definately see both sides and Tim has the right to defend his company no doubt. However, I don't see the logic in insulting one of your best customers (or any customer for that matter). The amount of money that TJSCT has given to COMC has to be pretty staggering. If I was Tim I would be trying to keep him happy, not continuing to alienate him.

Sometimes a squeeky wheel needs oil. Fine. But sometimes it needs to be... I don't know what you do, replace it, ignore it...but definitely don't pander to it.

[jmscoggin]

Sometimes a squeeky wheel needs oil. Fine. But sometimes it needs to be... I don't know what you do, replace it, ignore it...but definitely don't pander to it.

Oh, please don't misunderstand me. I don't say that he needs special rules or does anyone. I don't even agree with the poster above per se that the $9 should have been waived just because he is a big customer. That is a slippery slope. I think most companies do reward their best customers but I am not saying that COMC should or has to.

I was merely saying that you don't call them out by name and try to make them look bad. I know Tim was only responding to being called out first but a CEO should have taken the high road and explained his position without personally calling or singling out a customer. Just in the same way that they are protecting the buyer that keeps returning non BGS 10's. Show examples but don't put a name to them. Just looks unprofessional.

This is certainly a great thread with many viewpoints. I think COMC learns from it as do buyers and sellers on COMC. I definately see sides that I hadn't considered before. I am not sure why some people are being venomous and taking peoples questions or concerns personally. COMC has been great for me and hopefully continues to be. That doesn't mean that I or anyone else shouldn't voice their concerns when they don't like new policies.

[JohnAndrew]

Only time will tell.

COMC should have just taken the $9 hit from a $3000 a month customer and not even said a word about it. Just smarter and necessary business decision that could have kept a huge customer happy and comc taking $3000 a month gross sales for who knows how many years in the future...

But who am i to say, its Tims business, he can do anything he wants. everyone can have opinions. BUT THE FINAL SAY IS TIMS....

RIGHT OR WRONG, it is his company.


Instead of sending my cards to sell, i am just GIVING THEM AWAY for FREE until i see what happens
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/contest/532289-freecardsfreecards-free-baseball-cards-codes.html

In my time on this forum, I have never seen someone so desperately try to weigh in on something they were so utterly clueless about.

Go spend some more time planning your $5,000 website and leave the COMC discussion to those of us who actually use it.

[h4auto]

In my time on this forum, I have never seen someone so desperately try to weigh in on something they were so utterly clueless about.

Go spend some more time planning your $5,000 website and leave the COMC discussion to those of us who actually use it.

i USED it a few years back and just started again 2 weeks ago.

Are you butt hurt? this is entertainment. interesting opinions and views...


PS: i was going to buy something from your port, but your port is worst then mine.. sorry.

[JohnAndrew]

PS: i was going to buy something from your port, but your port is worst then mine.. sorry.

Bummer...guess it's time to throw in the towel.

[h4auto]

Bummer...guess it's time to throw in the towel.

I DID (almost) . i am giving my cards away free that i was going to send to comc. heck i am even paying the postage.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/contest/532289-freecardsfreecards-free-baseball-cards-codes.html

Much more enjoyable then giving more money go companies that think paying customers are wrong. :eek:

[dodger]

Yes, unless it was damaged/lost in shipping or swapped out by the buyer for an inferior copy of the card. It's your card.

Returns are part of doing business, they happen a small percentage of the time in any business where money is exchanged for goods.

A little late to this thread, but I've been considering using COMC so checking out some of the recent active threads.

Is it correct that I am allowed, under the COMC return policy, to buy any card, send it off for fast grading, and if it doesn't grade a 9.5, I can send it back within a week and get a full refund?

And, since this is clearly stated as allowed in the "satisfaction guarantee", I can do this over and over and over again?

[MarkM]

A little late to this thread, but I've been considering using COMC so checking out some of the recent active threads.

Is it correct that I am allowed, under the COMC return policy, to buy any card, send it off for fast grading, and if it doesn't grade a 9.5, I can send it back within a week and get a full refund?

And, since this is clearly stated as allowed in the "satisfaction guarantee", I can do this over and over and over again?

Hello Folks,

Happy to talk a bit about this issue. As Tim mentioned earlier, this would be a violation of the spirit of our return policy. Even if the card was somehow graded within the one-week window for returns, we would not refund the cost of having the card graded.

The only exception is if the card came back as inauthentic. Our return policy is in place to give our buyers a sense of security, but not to enable prospecting. Thanks!

[dodger]

Hello Folks,

Happy to talk a bit about this issue. As Tim mentioned earlier, this would be a violation of the spirit of our return policy. Even if the card was somehow graded within the one-week window for returns, we would not refund the cost of having the card graded.

The only exception is if the card came back as inauthentic. Our return policy is in place to give our buyers a sense of security, but not to enable prospecting. Thanks!

Thanks. I'm trying to avoid the fraud of ebay and am considering moving my selling to COMC.

The problem is, the "7 day return-for-any-reason" policy doesn't make much sense. It can be abused in so many different ways, that I can only imagine how much havok it will cause if/when the site becomes a lot busier. The traffic these days is probably mostly hardcore hobbyists.

If your traffic continues to increase, however, you'll get far more scammers and nefarious folk coming to take advantage. I'm a little concerned that you haven't entirely thought through the return policy.

It's ripe for abuse... buy a card, try to sell it higher on ebay. If you can't in 7 days, return it. Get it graded, if you don't like the result, return it. Etc etc.

The whole return model is plain wrong. You can't "return a share of a stock" after you buy it and get your original price. You can't "return a bar of gold" a week after you buy it and get your original price.

You're treating baseball cards like pieces of clothing. They're not. They're monetarily a lot more like commodities or currency.

Can you imagine being able to buy some Facebook stock, hold it a week, and if it gets hit in value, being able to return it for the price you bought it at?

So I agree with a lot of the prior comments -- returns of baseball cards makes no sense at all, and I suspect are going to cause your company great angst in the years to come. If your "you can see the cards so well that you shouldn't have to return it" claim is true, then... buyers shouldn't have to return anything.

Please reconsider this irrational return policy.

[TSJCT]

I have to agree with DODGER on this and that is the reason i am selling my inventory i have on the site. I will NOT be sending in any other cards. I purchased a HUGE inventory of probably 300K cards that would have gone to them but now will be sold on Ebay, Here on BO, and shows. The RETURN policy is what drove me away from sending in any more cards to the site. I tried to explain this to several at COMC but they are going to allow returns no questions asked. I also explained the deal of when a Player gets HOT and people buy them to sell fast and if they do not get the right price they will just send them back. Could you imagine buying SILVER at $20 on Monday and if it drops to $15 on friday you could just send it back and get a full refund at $20???? This policy makes NO sense to me. I stopped the purchases from AMAZON as i would imagine that is where all the returns are coming from. The returns have Stopped but the sales have Fallen off the Cliff for us. Just hope my inventory moves in a Fast way so i can recoup some of the HUGE chunk i have paid to COMC in listing fees and Cash out fees over the past few years.

[base set]

Here we go round in circles.

I am a total outsider to the business of baseball cards, just an occasional tiny customer. But maybe an outside perspective would be useful for some. It appears that COMC and eBay and Amazon and PayPal all basically feel that the amount of sales gained by the customers' feelings of security from their return policy will outweigh the losses to fraudulent returns. I would think this is an essential part of retail business that must be balanced in all retail activity. It also appears that they feel confident that they can limit this fraud by not allowing it to be repeated infinitely, and have additional IT resources to combat this.

I don't see how eBay's return policies differ from COMC from reading a lot of threads on this. I think eBay gives you 14 days instead of 7, if I read all this stuff right. Or, 4 series of poor statistics on the ball diamond rather than 2 at COMC. And COMC looks far more secure to me, as they are a third party involved in the shipping. There is no way a COMC customer can claim to have received a cheap card instead of an expensive card, effectively stealing the card.

But, it is a free world out there to try and sell retail only with a zero return policy.

Or perhaps sell baseball cards on futures contracts instead somehow. Why even bother shipping these little pieces of cardboard around the country. No one cares about holding them in their hands, only about the tallies of how many of them appear on the bottom line of their spreadsheets. Just like no one invested in gold actually has the gold in their possession. In some ways, COMC already does this as cards are bought and sold while they just sit in the COMC warehouse. You might want to read a fascinating article about aluminum and Goldman Sachs that was in the New York Times recently, whenever you get frustrated about dealing with baseball card inventory. Perhaps Topps could just hold the cards at the factory, and put cheap possession registration certificates in the packs instead. Oh, I forgot. eTopps already failed. But that appears to be what some dealers are asking for. An ideal world.

Unfortunately there are real customers who want real cards they can hold in their hand. And then you have to sell retail and deliver physical items to the customer. No one in the history of humanity has ever figured out a zero risk way to sell physical items with zero risk of fraud/theft. I'm sure anyone who could figure that out would make some money.

And, no, I would not buy very many baseball cards over the internet if someone could just set up a seller account, sell 100 cheap cards to build a rep, and then sell one real expensive card to me but send a cheap card instead, and then just say I was lying when I tried to return it, even at the risk of losing their selling account and starting over with a different mask on. Fraud cuts both ways in business, and customers look out for themselves by avoiding the risk of fraud as much as they can when making a purchase.

[TSJCT]

Base Set your logic is off on this. COMC grades each and Every Card that comes to them and if it is not perfect they make Comments about the card in the description for the buyer to see. That is Different from Ebay as ebay never gets the card in hand. Why in the Hell does COMC bother with looking at every single card and posting notes about the card if it is not perfect to them???? Com Cee should not take returns UNLESS they want to put them into their account. You know (BaseSet) there are Scammers out there do you not. If they are going to take cards back then DO NOT put condition notes on cards sent in. Just scan and post. Like i said in this Post A LONG TIME AGO this will be a very BAD BAD decision COM CEE is making.

[base set]

Of course there are scammers in the world. Wherever money changes hands there will be; always has and always will.

I well understand the anger that generates when you want to buy or sell something. I sell services; I compete with other contractors that flat-out break labor laws. Collecting baseball cards is a nice respite from business.

I like the COMC system from what I can see. I have to get rid of a few hundred cheap parallels and inserts left over from my collecting style of ripping a bit of retail here and there and building low-end sets. So I have been reading business-of-baseball-cards threads to figure out what best to do.

Although I don't really have to worry about people wanting to pull scams on $1 or less cards, I like the 3rd party involvement of COMC on shipping from the theoretical point of view. No one can really claim an established business that has shipped hundreds of thousands of cards would put a cheap card in a package in place of an expensive one. An objective thing. The object is in the package, or it isn't. That is a route to scamming via eBay of course.

3rd party grading is a different thing. Grading is a subjective thing and can have disputes between parties. What you are really questioning is seller and customer grading of a card as a condition for a returned item.

Commodities are sometimes sold in grades. #1 grade, #2 grade, etc. I'm sure there are occasional conflicts on whether a particular lot of commodities has been graded correctly. I have no idea what the dispute resolution process might be, but perhaps it would be instructive for people suggesting baseball cards can be sold only on locked-in 'spot' prices, as they actually are. One price today, a different price tomorrow.

Anyhow looking at the reasons to allow returns or not allow returns creates another cost center - resolving disputes on whether conditions have been met to allow a return. Again I imagine the major vendors of online sales services deciding a blanket 'no questions asked' return policy is cheaper than a conditional return policy and the disputes those would create. If I have read all the various threads correctly, PayPal requires a 14 day no-questions-asked return policy or they charge a higher transaction % fee. Perhaps because of the costs involved with having a human being adjudicate what can be returned and what can't.

So I think setting conditions on returns is somewhat of a false direction to get concerned about.

My final 2 cents is that I am sure a lot of these subjects are covered succinctly in a business school textbook somewhere.

Carry on, baseball card vendors, I very much appreciate your services. Best of luck with it all, and please try and enjoy your work as much as possible. I do.