Is Lebron the biggest choker in Finals history?

[rookies]

With the whole 2011 series. The ok series last year that was overrated vs the Thunder. And now this 33% average in this years finals? The guy has had more opportunity and he fails every time! And like other superstars they always INCREASE their average and points per game (Jordan, Kobe, Durant). But he has never upped his average Fg percentage or points in the finals? And has a career 27 percent from 3 in the finals.
Am I right or anyone ever done as bad as him?

[IronMonkey415]

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/IronMonkey415/ku-medium_zps60815b7e.gif (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/IronMonkey415/media/ku-medium_zps60815b7e.gif.html)

[IronMonkey415]

Ever since I know how to post .gif on this website.. I CANNOT STOP and WILL NOT STOP

[bdoody42]

The series isn't over yet.

[Quigley24]

We'll see how he plays in games 6 and 7 (if necessary). Those are the games that matter most.

[jbarnett83]

Didn't have to wait long for someone to blame Lebron.... again:rolleyes:

[rookies]

Didn't have to wait long for someone to blame Lebron.... again:rolleyes:

Iam a Lebron fan man. He deserves 100% of the blame. He gets it when they win. The guy shoots 33% in the finals and does nothing. And To other post Iam not saying series is over iam talking about is he the worst Finals player ever? he has played 14 games and done nothing special. Series is not over but his finals reputation is.

[IamRalpho]

Spurs still need to win in Miami, Lebron can easily redeem himself. Way too early to post this.

[Nyfancam01]

James will be INSANE in game 6 and even better in 7.

I believe!

[Kingofkings1281]

LeBron is the single worst player in the universe and needs to retire. :)!















/sarcasm

[lionsfan20]

Didn't have to wait long for someone to blame Lebron.... again:rolleyes:

Here we go! When the Heat win Lebron is the man and he put the team on his back. When they loose its not his fault and the rest of his team let him down. It gets old.

[rookies]

I think this thread is getting confused Iam saying all time all his performances not just this series which he is playing terrible in but ever finals game combined hes got to be the worst right?

[Nyfancam01]

Ever since I know how to post .gif on this website.. I CANNOT STOP and WILL NOT STOP

You... You get it.

[GoJays]

James will be INSANE in game 6 and even better in 7.

I believe!

I'd think he'd come out and play insane basketball in game six. Who knows what'll happen if and when it gets to game seven. He could come out hot, or stink up the joint. Seems there's no decent middle ground with LeBron.

[jr24ai3]

I hate Lebron but I wouldn't call it a choke. He is struggling (for his standards) because of the defensive gameplan the Spurs have to slow him down. He is having shots contested and going against 2 guys when he gets to the rim.

[slugger22]

Series isn't over yet !

[AndrewT]

He's not the worst but he's not making any sort of case to prove otherwise.

[jt16]

I think this thread is getting confused Iam saying all time all his performances not just this series which he is playing terrible in but ever finals game combined hes got to be the worst right?

James averaged 28.6 points, 10.2 rebounds and 7.4 assists in more than 44 minutes per game over the course of the five-game series victory. He made 51 of 108 field-goal attempts (47.2 percent) and 38 of 46 free throws (82.6 percent). After posting a triple-double in the Game 5 win — 26 points (9-for-19 shooting), 13 assists, 11 rebounds.

Last year's finals stats. Terrible. He should just quit playing basketball.

[Kingofkings1281]

Here we go! When the Heat win Lebron is the man and he put the team on his back. When they loose its not his fault and the rest of his team let him down. It gets old.

How would one "loose"? Second of all, not everyone thinks or says that after they win a game. He's been pretty lackluster so far in these Finals (including a horrific game 3) Since the ESPN hype machine builds him up to be a God, I think he gets a lot of unwarranted criticism. Yes, he's overexposed, but I've never seen so many people cheer and revel in an athlete losing. It's really creepy.

[jbarnett83]

Here we go! When the Heat win Lebron is the man and he put the team on his back. When they loose its not his fault and the rest of his team let him down. It gets old.

Jump to conclusions much? When they win/lose they win/lose as a team. I am not a fan of either team just tired of threads like this blaming Lebron as soon as they lose. Fact is the Spurs are a better team. you don't see Spurs fans creating threads to blame one player when they lose.:rolleyes:

No offense OP, I understand your frustration but this is a team game and the Heat are getting outplayed & outcoached

[rookies]

James averaged 28.6 points, 10.2 rebounds and 7.4 assists in more than 44 minutes per game over the course of the five-game series victory. He made 51 of 108 field-goal attempts (47.2 percent) and 38 of 46 free throws (82.6 percent). After posting a triple-double in the Game 5 win — 26 points (9-for-19 shooting), 13 assists, 11 rebounds.

Last year's finals stats. Terrible. He should just quit playing basketball.

Never said it was terrible. But thats down alot in his FG percentage and rebounds up more but they played small in playoffs so they should be up.

In this series its not about him being double teamed he has missed I think 4 1 on 1 fast break layups. Thats him nobody else. Hes being passive. Thats him nobody else.

[rookies]

Jump to conclusions much? When they win/lose they win/lose as a team. I am not a fan of either team just tired of threads like this blaming Lebron as soon as they lose. Fact is the Spurs are a better team. you don't see Spurs fans creating threads to blame one player when they lose.:rolleyes:

No offense OP, I understand your frustration but this is a team game and the Heat are getting outplayed & outcoached

Its a team game yes. But nobody here wants to give him blame its the playoffs your on the road superstars take over he is shooting terrible and overcommitting on defense but the broadcasters say hes playing great defense because he gets a block. All Iam saying is nobody compares to how bad lebron is in the finals its kinda funny he makes it so people who hate him want to watch because he may "choke" and people who love him want to watch because he may go ECF game 6 celtics or pistons slaughter game.
Not bashing him I just think hes the biggest choker or whatever word to use in the Finals.

[jt16]

Its a team game yes. But nobody here wants to give him blame its the playoffs your on the road superstars take over he is shooting terrible and overcommitting on defense but the broadcasters say hes playing great defense because he gets a block. All Iam saying is nobody compares to how bad lebron is in the finals its kinda funny he makes it so people who hate him want to watch because he may "choke" and people who love him want to watch because he may go ECF game 6 celtics or pistons slaughter game.
Not bashing him I just think hes the biggest choker or whatever word to use in the Finals.

Are you dumb? The stats I posted proved you wrong. He was MVP of the finals last year and had one of the greatest post season runs in history.

[Kingofkings1281]

Are you dumb? The stats I posted proved you wrong. He was MVP of the finals last year and had one of the greatest post season runs in history.

Nobody remembers that. When it comes to LeBron, people seem to have a selective memory.

[AndrewT]

Jump to conclusions much? When they win/lose they win/lose as a team. I am not a fan of either team just tired of threads like this blaming Lebron as soon as they lose. Fact is the Spurs are a better team. you don't see Spurs fans creating threads to blame one player when they lose.:rolleyes:

No offense OP, I understand your frustration but this is a team game and the Heat are getting outplayed & outcoached

If this is a team game, then why does Lebron get so much attention? You never heard the media blaming Dennis Rodman when the Bulls lost a playoff game! He's the leader of the team and the so called "best player on the planet"! Which is garbage btw. Durant is the best player in the league and maybe second to only Kobe. Lebron is good, don't get me wrong, but he's not a leader. Maybe it's been the hype that's haunted him his entire career, but to me he's nothing special. The Heat bought their last ring, but money only goes so far!

[jr24ai3]

Here are some stats to consider:

Here is his average during his finals career (20 games)

22.3ppg, 43.7% shooting

Here is his average during the regular season during those 4 years:

27 ppg, on 52.05% shooting

There is a significant drop in his shooting percentage and PPG. Is he choking, or is it the fact that teams can focus in more during a series on stopping LeBron?

[jr24ai3]

Would people say that its fair to call him the Peyton Manning of the NBA? Great regular season stats, but for some reason can't produce at the same level in the postseason?

[rookies]

Are you dumb? The stats I posted proved you wrong. He was MVP of the finals last year and had one of the greatest post season runs in history.

No Iam not dumb. Congrats in that series besides his field goal percentage dropping 6 points. He did his regular season average which is good.
But how about the 07 finals? He played terrible. How about the mavs finals TERRIBLE. How about this finals? Terrible if he didnt have his 15 garbage time points in big wins he would be averaging 17 points not his 21 he is now.

[tristan20]

One man cannot win against a team like the Spurs. Not sure how Lebron sucks, but watch the game when he leaves the floor. Then you understand how important he really is.

[groundsupport]

Lebron failed to show in the fourth.

[Kingofkings1281]

Second of all, I think comparing LeBron to Kobe or Jordan is flat out stupid. One thing that doesn't get pointed out enough is that the latter two players are dead eye shooters. LeBron doesn't have a smooth jump shot to bail him out if he can't get to the rim and create. The Spurs have done an excellent job of taking away his strengths, and their defense isn't getting enough credit. It's all about LeBron "choking". Give me a break.

[Nyfancam01]

This thread is a fail.


Here is my current facebook status:

"HEAT IN 7.

Get ready for James to do the "Hulk Hogan" Leg Drop to San Antonio."


lol I really hope they can make this happen....

[AndrewT]

Still funny that people want to compare him to Jordan. Jordan's best numbers arose in the finals! Sorry Bron Bron! Maybe if you didn't walk like a duck! Lol

[rookies]

I hope they win too. As I love and watched nearly every game he has played since 04/05 season. BUt You are a lopsided fan if you can not recognize his game dropped alot during the NBA Finals. Thats all.

[Wings]

Forget the big 3s, its all about the Spurs 4th, 5th, 6th best players.

In terms of Lebron in the finals a lot will be able to be said after this series. If he loses that means he is 1-3 in the finals which is terrible for a 4x mvp, but if he wins 2 titles in a row it looks pretty good.

[IamRalpho]

Its funny, a lot of people saying "You cant compare Lebron to MJ" are the same people who in the middle of February when he was going berserk were making posts saying hes already better than Jordan because he dropped a triple double on the Bobcats or what have you.

Lebron is amazing, the finals are tough, I think they can still win this series unfortunately. If/when they do, he's the MVP.

A little too early for gloating.

[groundsupport]

Lebron in the 4th quarter tonight. 1-4. For 3 points (scored those when the game was out of reach 9 minutes into the fourth) and 2 turnovers.

[rookies]

Forget the big 3s, its all about the Spurs 4th, 5th, 6th best players.

In terms of Lebron in the finals a lot will be able to be said after this series. If he loses that means he is 1-3 in the finals which is terrible for a 4x mvp, but if he wins 2 titles in a row it looks pretty good.

I agree. I still think they win in 7 because I dont doubt him. But I dont mind if heat lose just I do mind if lebron goes 7-22 and gets like 6 assists and 5 rebounds and no drive to try and win in fourth.

[slugger22]

This thread is a fail.


Here is my current facebook status:

"HEAT IN 7.

Get ready for James to do the "Hulk Hogan" Leg Drop to San Antonio."


lol I really hope they can make this happen....

I'm sure you do !

[AndrewT]

Its funny, a lot of people saying "You cant compare Lebron to MJ" are the same people who in the middle of February when he was going berserk were making posts saying hes already better than Jordan because he dropped a triple double on the Bobcats or what have you.

Lebron is amazing, the finals are tough, I think they can still win this series unfortunately. If/when they do, he's the MVP.

A little too early for gloating.

There's no comparison to MJ. There have been plenty of players to challenge his stats: Kobe, Carter, Tmac, Iverson, Grant Hill, etc but the bottom line is that if Jordan was playing, the Bulls were winning. You don't get that with Lebron! You're only left wondering if he's going to show up or not!

[lambeauleap87]

After last year's Finals (and throughout this past season), it seemed like LeBron had finally stepped out of the "non-clutch" shadow. But the way he's been playing thus far...meh. A fourth quarter line like tonight's (and, while I don't recall his other's off the top of my head) is more like his Cleveland or early Miami days. He's one of the best, though, and the next game (or two) will go further in determining his legacy.

[lionsfan20]

Its funny, a lot of people saying "You cant compare Lebron to MJ" are the same people who in the middle of February when he was going berserk were making posts saying hes already better than Jordan because he dropped a triple double on the Bobcats or what have you.

Lebron is amazing, the finals are tough, I think they can still win this series unfortunately. If/when they do, he's the MVP.

A little too early for gloating.

Exactly! I have said this many times. Every time Lebron has a great game, series, or season for that matter all his fans can't stop talking about how he is better than Jordan and the GOAT. As soon as he struggles or doesnt show up in a big moment "he is not the same type of player" and its "apples to oranges" excuse comes out. DON'T COMPARE LEBRON TO JORDAN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ACTUALLY COMPARE LEBRON TO JORDON!

[LeonfromNC]

let's revisit this thread around this time on thursday night when LeBron is holding up the trophy in one hand and throwing up deuces in the other... and then taking a break, collecting his 2nd straight Finals MVP award as well...

then we can all see the "choker" that he really is...

[rookies]

Lebron is a better regular season player IMO.

And I really hope so Lean. GO HEAT

[fullmetal]

Credit the defense played against him rather than faulting him.

[jbmets95]

ive been rooting for lebron but he continue to shrivel under pressure and pass

if it wasnt for ray allen getting hot and going off it would b a 30 point game

SUPERSTARS DONT DEFER...

[fullmetal]

let's revisit this thread around this time on thursday night when LeBron is holding up the trophy in one hand and throwing up deuces in the other... and then taking a break, collecting his 2nd straight Finals MVP award as well...

then we can all see the "choker" that he really is...

Strange. Danny Green wins the MVP.

[rhigh2390]

Iam a Lebron fan man. He deserves 100% of the blame. He gets it when they win. The guy shoots 33% in the finals and does nothing. And To other post Iam not saying series is over iam talking about is he the worst Finals player ever? he has played 14 games and done nothing special. Series is not over but his finals reputation is.

Where did you get 14 finals games?

(4 in 2007, 6 in 2011, 5 in 2012, and 5 in 2013 so far)

Thats 20. And just for the record, he has already lost more finals games than jordan did in his career :) (Lebron 6-12, Jordan 24-11)

[groundsupport]

Lebron is 8-12.

[tristan20]

FACT

The only people that compare Lebron to Jordan are his haters LOL
Never once have I seen a Lebron fan compare him to Jordan.

[rookies]

Magic deferred? was he not a superstar?

[bettydaw1970]

i thnk bron may be alil more dr.j, then michael jordan :(

[Nyfancam01]

i thnk bron may be alil more dr.j, then michael jordan :(

This is the dumbest comment I have ever read.

[Cubs_rock21]

lol this is the dumbest thread. Lebron is the same age as Jordan was when he won his first NBA finals. You morons cannot compare Lebron to Jordan or Kobe. Lebron in 28 years old. It's easy to say a player is better when you have their whole careers stats in front of you. Lebron is years behind these guys.

Funny thing is when it comes to Lebron no one ever gives the other team credit. That just shows how good Lebron is. He's so good that people are blinded from seeing the overall picture. The Spurs are flat out out playing the Heat. They are not slouches. Why is it that Lebron is choking? Tim Duncan, Parker, Green, Leonard are getting no credit at all.

[groundsupport]

lol this is the dumbest thread. Lebron is the same age as Jordan was when he won his first NBA finals. You morons cannot compare Lebron to Jordan or Kobe. Lebron in 28 years old. It's easy to say a player is better when you have their whole careers stats in front of you. Lebron is years behind these guys.

Funny thing is when it comes to Lebron no one ever gives the other team credit. That just shows how good Lebron is. He's so good that people are blinded from seeing the overall picture. The Spurs are flat out out playing the Heat. They are not slouches. Why is it that Lebron is choking? Tim Duncan, Parker, Green, Leonard are getting no credit at all.



Lebron should have took more then 4 shots and 1 free throw in the fourth. What part of that don't you understand?

[IamRalpho]

FACT

The only people that compare Lebron to Jordan are his haters LOL
Never once have I seen a Lebron fan compare him to Jordan.

Then I guess you didnt visit the boards much over the winter, there were A LOT of Heat fans jumping into that argument and I believe most of them started the threads

[AndrewT]

let's revisit this thread around this time on thursday night when LeBron is holding up the trophy in one hand and throwing up deuces in the other... and then taking a break, collecting his 2nd straight Finals MVP award as well...

then we can all see the "choker" that he really is...

Wishful thinking!

[Cubs_rock21]

Lebron should have took more then 4 shots and 1 free throw in the fourth. What part of that don't you understand?

Nobody can beat a Spurs team when Danny Green is shooting 60% from the three. If Lebron took more shots you all would whine about him not passing.

This series is not over. Heat in 7.

[tristan20]

Then I guess you didnt visit the boards much over the winter, there were A LOT of Heat fans jumping into that argument and I believe most of them started the threads

Dig them up

[tristan20]

Lebron at 28 should have at least 3 rings already. What a failure LOL

[Cubs_rock21]

Then I guess you didnt visit the boards much over the winter, there were A LOT of Heat fans jumping into that argument and I believe most of them started the threads

Lebron cannot be compared to Jordan. Will Lebron by the end of his career be better? That is a very good possibility.

[groundsupport]

Nobody can beat a Spurs team when Danny Green is shooting 60% from the three. If Lebron took more shots you all would whine about him not passing.

This series is not over. Heat in 7.

Now your putting words in my mouth.

He didn't show up again in the fourth. Bottom line.

[IamRalpho]

Dig them up

You can search yourself, but everyone knows there were those threads and comparisons all through the year and why would "Heat haters" bring them up when Lebron was going insane?

A lot of the "Heat hating" was aimed at the bandwagon fans who made idiotic statements like Lebron > Jordan all year.

[Jin]

Was kind of disappointed in his performance today. He shrunk away from the limelight after he didn't get calls his way in the 4th; he let it affect his play to much.

But again the Heat aren't a 1 man team.

[jbmets95]

Altho many may think im a lebron hater im not at all
love the guy and respect him
whats not to like (besides the floppin lol)

but anyway any true heat non biased fan can see
he just doesnt play as well in the finals

wade steps up in crunch time

game 6 wade will come out and set the tone... he is a winner..

im not knocking the spurs but paul george is just as good as a defender as kawhi and hibbert in the middle

he just isnt playing well at all this serious... he's missin layups dunks he would finish in the regular season.. its not a huge knock but as the mvp and best player in the world he doesnt step his game up for the finals he does the opposite

most ppl rise up in big games and the finals while he plays worse and does the opposite

no arguement...

[tristan20]

Altho many may think im a lebron hater im not at all
love the guy and respect him
whats not to like (besides the floppin lol)

but anyway any true heat non biased fan can see
he just doesnt play as well in the finals

wade steps up in crunch time

game 6 wade will come out and set the tone... he is a winner..

im not knocking the spurs but paul george is just as good as a defender as kawhi and hibbert in the middle

he just isnt playing well at all this serious... he's missin layups dunks he would finish in the regular season.. its not a huge knock but as the mvp and best player in the world he doesnt step his game up for the finals he does the opposite

most ppl rise up in big games and the finals while he plays worse and does the opposite

no arguement...


Quit the BS, stop lying. Every comment you make about Lebron is negative. In case you forgot, just look at your past posts.

[crazymj]

The heat will win the next 2 games and that will silence the critics.

[jbarnett83]

The entire Spurs defense has been amazing throughout the playoffs but there is a reason they (and every other team) put their best defender on Lebron

[tristan20]

The entire Spurs defense has been amazing throughout the playoffs but there is a reason they (and every other team) put their best defender on Lebron

Danny Green shooting also. Diaw did a good job on Lebron. Big body

[rookies]

Lebron made it appear as though overweight and old Boris Diaw was doing a good job. He just wasnt attacking.

[hairytrojan]

spurs in 6 as I predicted before series started :)!

[tristan20]

As fat as Diaw is, he plays well. His defense kept Lebron out the paint.
Lebron couldn't move him as he does with smaller defenders.

Diaw played 27 mins for a reason.

[SocraticGoat777]

Lebron is just not as "exquisite" as Ginobili was tonight... That commentator kept saying that word lol, freaks me out

[Kaegysaurus]

spurs in 6 as I predicted before series started :)!

Really? Cause in the "Official Discussion Thread of The Finals! San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat" you said "Spurs in 7" lol.

[SocraticGoat777]

As fat as Diaw is, he plays well. His defense kept Lebron out the paint.
Lebron couldn't move him as he does with smaller defenders.

Diaw played 27 mins for a reason.

Diaw is a beast. Under that fat, Im sure is ALOT of muscle, the way he hold up Bron. I imagine the guy dead lifts a TON:flex:

[SocraticGoat777]

I hate Lebron but I wouldn't call it a choke. He is struggling (for his standards) because of the defensive gameplan the Spurs have to slow him down. He is having shots contested and going against 2 guys when he gets to the rim.

Jordan could have 2 guys on him, and he would still fade away and swish shooting 55% from the floor. Lebron will never touch Jordan/Kobe and the other greats in terms of clutchness

[ninjacookies]

Jordan could have 2 guys on him, and he would still fade away and swish shooting 55% from the floor. Lebron will never touch Jordan/Kobe and the other greats in terms of clutchness

Or 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkEVn1VUBlE

[hairyangryfella]

This thread is a fail.


Here is my current facebook status:

"HEAT IN 7.

Get ready for James to do the "Hulk Hogan" Leg Drop to San Antonio."


lol I really hope they can make this happen....

And then you'll go watch pokemon...


This is the dumbest comment I have ever read.

You obviously don't read much...

The heat will win the next 2 games and that will silence the critics.

Other than those of the refs......................

[Nyfancam01]

Pokémon still comes on?

[rookies]

And then you'll go watch pokemon...




You obviously don't read much...



Other than those of the refs......................


.... No wonder your name is angryfella^^

[Cades]

Was kind of disappointed in his performance today. He shrunk away from the limelight after he didn't get calls his way in the 4th; he let it affect his play to much.

But again the Heat aren't a 1 man team.

Your right, they aren't, bench scrored 31, wade had 25, bosh had 16. What more does lebron need out of them?

[groundsupport]

Your right, they aren't, bench scrored 31, wade had 25, bosh had 16. What more does lebron need out of them?


Lebron was the weakest link in the 2nd half.

1-8 for 4 points in the final 22 minutes.

2-9 for 9 points in the 2nd half..

3 points came in garbage minutes, when he was about to be benched.

[bmf]

.... No wonder your name is angryfella^^

lol yeah dude has issues out the wazoo

[GC1980]

No matter what Lebron does he is going to get some negative feedback. I am a huge Lebron hater but can admit, he is a serious talent. That said, he deserves to get some bashing for floundering, again, in the postseason. This is still very much a series and no doubt in my mind it goes 7 but the Heat are in it despite the subpar effort from LBJ. I for one have been following the NBA since the late 88-89 season and cannot remember a premier player shrinking this much in the finals.

Someone in another thread made a great point regarding the comparisons between MJ/Kobe and LBJ, which all of these threads seem to end up being. Lebron just does not have the go to iso moves those guys had. He is a far easier player for good team defenses to plan for and slow down. Those other two guys had moves and counter moves for days. LBJ's game is way more predictable. He just isn't the take over force those two were.

[Hegotgame15]

Lebron cannot be compared to Jordan. Will Lebron by the end of his career be better? That is a very good possibility.

He might end up with better overall (regular reason stats) but he will never surpass MJ's winning legacy....

When you look at a player like Lebron and see what he has actually achieved to what people project he will achieve...
They are and will be MILES apart...

He has never been reliable in the "clutch" and continues to be suspect any time he is pressured...




It's just plain stupid to think a player of his size will have the longevity of the players like MJ/Kobe who have other offensive weapons...

Lebron's game relies heavily on his size strength and speed, in a few years when he doesn't have those assets, what will he fall back on???
A fade away jump shot?

He's got a good percentage jump shot, only when he's open, but as soon as he has to jump in the air and avoid a block he loses his balance...

He can't jump to his peak and square himself to the rim and maintain a balanced shot like MJ/Kobe did...
He is uncoordinated most of time he is the air and always bails out and passes when he can't get the first shoot/lay-up he was looking for...

So I find it very hard to see him being a consistent threat in about 5 years from now unless he can add a fade away that can be relied on...

He needs to get his rings very quickly to try and surpass the others and from what I have seen, he is struggling to even get his second...

Do people think its going to get any easier to get these rings year after year?

[Round Mound]

He's got a good percentage jump shot, only when he's open, but as soon as he has to jump in the air and avoid a block he loses his balance...

He can't jump to his peak and square himself to the rim and maintain a balanced shot like MJ/Kobe did...
He is uncoordinated most of time he is the air and always bails out and passes when he can't get the first shoot/lay-up he was looking for...

So LeBron James is Adam Morrison?

[fullmetal]

Lebron is an awesome addition to the SPurs. One more game.

[Hegotgame15]

So LeBron James is Adam Morrison?

Is that what I said?

Why can't people like you admit he is very limited offensively???

Oh and lets not even address his consistent no show in big games!!!

[Mathew_carr92]

Never liked James since he went to bandwagon beach

[Round Mound]

Is that what I said?

Why can't people like you admit he is very limited offensively???

I don't know, 4-time MVP, 3 times the last 4 years, and he's limited offensively. Is the NBA that weak to have a 4-time MVP who is limited offensively in his prime?

[groundsupport]

I don't know, 4-time MVP, 3 times the last 4 years, and he's limited offensively. Is the NBA that weak to have a 4-time MVP who is limited offensively in his prime?


Still Ignoring his Nba Finals collapses...

[Round Mound]

Still Ignoring his Nba Finals collapses...

No, I'm not ignoring it. But it doesn't make him "limited offensively" all of a sudden.

[jbmets95]

Thats actually not true at all...

im rooting for the heat.... and completely respect lebron
whats not to like about a player who plays great defense and distributes the ball and can almost score at will....

Ive gave him so much respect all season but in the playoffs his game has lowered... its no denying...
and stats dont mean anything... just like the three he took at the end of the blowout last game
Quit the BS, stop lying. Every comment you make about Lebron is negative. In case you forgot, just look at your past posts.

[Hegotgame15]

No, I'm not ignoring it. But it doesn't make him "limited offensively" all of a sudden.

Yes he's limited offensively!!!

Are you kidding me?

Are you trying to say he has the same offensive weapons of MJ/Kobe???

And again you still don't address his problem with showing up in big games.

[Round Mound]

Yes he's limited offensively!!!

Are you kidding me?

Are you trying to say he has the same offensive weapons of MJ/Kobe???

So anybody who doesn't have the offensive weapons of MJ/Kobe is limited offensively? Can MJ or Kobe make big blocks the way LeBron does? Does it make them limited defensively?

If he's this limited, how come his opponents let him score at will most of the time? And make assists? And take offensive rebounds?

And again you still don't address his problem with showing up in big games.

That's because I don't know (and you son't know either) what's his problem. The only thing I know for sure is that he's not doing it on purpose.

[GC1980]

Just because he is accomplishing great things and is an effective player does not mean he isn't limited offensively. There have been many great players that were limited in one way or another. Nash racked up a few MVPs, was he not limited defensively? Shaq was limited offensively as well.

LBJ has a mediocre jump shot, a very limited arsenal of post moves and nothing overly special off the dribble. What he is is an incredible physical specimen and he uses his size, speed and strength to perfection to draw contact, get to the line and overpower most opponents at the rim. He also has great vision and basketball IQ to get teammates great looks.

He does not have the polished scoring game of MJ or Kobe. He doesn't have the range of go to moves to create great looks for himself the way MJ did, especially when he was going to the post later in his career. Kobe may have some of the best footwork with his back to the basket since Olajuwon. These two, who LBJ will always be compared to (unfairly I say) just had far more weapons to draw on to score.

[GC1980]

To Round Mound: You realize MJ was Defensive Player of the year and had over 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season. You do realize he led the league in steals 3 times? Kobe also was a lock down defender for most of his career.

LBJ has a limited offensive game. Doesn't mean he isn't dope, just means he relies on his physical gifts a ton. I don't agree that he will magically break down though. He is a freak and i can see him using those gifts well into his 30s effectively without developing any true go to moves.

[Hegotgame15]

I don't know, 4-time MVP, 3 times the last 4 years, and he's limited offensively. Is the NBA that weak to have a 4-time MVP who is limited offensively in his prime?

He's the MVP because he has the best all round game and provides his team what ever they need, he puts in a solid effort most of the time with great averages on all aspects including scoring...

He is very good at getting 27 or so points off team basketball, but he doesn't get 27 pts a game being an ISO player with multiple weapons creating his OWN shots...

Is that enough for you or do you want me to break it down further???




Come playoff/finals time what happens???

[Round Mound]

"limited" means predictable and stopable. I don't see a player with a career average of 27.6ppg (.490. .337) being "limited offensively". Or you mean that all the NBA players are limited defensively?

[jlzinck]

This is the dumbest comment I have ever read.

Guess you didn't read this one VVVVVV

This thread is a fail.


Here is my current facebook status:

"HEAT IN 7.

Get ready for James to do the "Hulk Hogan" Leg Drop to San Antonio."


lol I really hope they can make this happen....

Aside from the way he handled himself during the horse and pony show about joinging the Heat I have no issues with James. He is an incredible athlete and the best player in the game and will be for a while.

[Hegotgame15]

Just because he is accomplishing great things and is an effective player does not mean he isn't limited offensively. There have been many great players that were limited in one way or another. Nash racked up a few MVPs, was he not limited defensively? Shaq was limited offensively as well.

LBJ has a mediocre jump shot, a very limited arsenal of post moves and nothing overly special off the dribble. What he is is an incredible physical specimen and he uses his size, speed and strength to perfection to draw contact, get to the line and overpower most opponents at the rim. He also has great vision and basketball IQ to get teammates great looks.

He does not have the polished scoring game of MJ or Kobe. He doesn't have the range of go to moves to create great looks for himself the way MJ did, especially when he was going to the post later in his career. Kobe may have some of the best footwork with his back to the basket since Olajuwon. These two, who LBJ will always be compared to (unfairly I say) just had far more weapons to draw on to score.

Couldn't of said it better...

[Round Mound]

He's the MVP because he has the best all round game and provides his team what ever they need, he puts in a solid effort most of the time with great averages on all aspects including scoring...

He is very good at getting 27 or so points off team basketball, but he doesn't get 27 pts a game being an ISO player with multiple weapons creating his OWN shots...

Is that enough for you or do you want me to break it down further???

OK, I got it, he's not a ballhog, which you want to translate into "he's limited offensively".

Come playoff/finals time what happens???

Why should I know? Do you?

[Hegotgame15]

So anybody who doesn't have the offensive weapons of MJ/Kobe is limited offensively? Can MJ or Kobe make big blocks the way LeBron does? Does it make them limited defensively?

If he's this limited, how come his opponents let him score at will most of the time? And make assists? And take offensive rebounds?



That's because I don't know (and you son't know either) what's his problem. The only thing I know for sure is that he's not doing it on purpose.

Anyone his size that doesn't have a fall back reliable jump shot/ fade away to rely on and can't create his own shots or moves that give him space between himself and the defender will NOT be able to sustain a high scoring average when his athletic ability deteriorates...



You would have to agree Lebron's best assets are his size strength and speed?

Do you not?

[Round Mound]

There's never been such a combination of speed and strength in one body. So the "anyone his size" doesn't apply. Because "anyone his size" doesn't exist in the NBA. You never know what will happen. He's been in the league for 10 years already.

In the past years, he's improved his overall FG% (and not by dunking more if that's what you will reply) and his 3pt %, and he started working on his low-post moves. His opponents must be incredibly stupid to let him score when all they have to do is stay in front for a charge....

He is definitely not limited offensively, just different from the usual jump shooter that you think is the perfect model in the NBA.

[Hegotgame15]

OK, I got it, he's not a ballhog, which you want to translate into "he's limited offensively".



Why should I know? Do you?

lol yep, that's what all his fans say! He's a not a ball hog like MJ, but what do you say when is team NEEDS him to go off and drop 40+ points and can't do it???

Yes I know exactly why he keeps coming up short, its very simple...

He thinks too much, he lets the pressure get to him so much that he DOSEN'T want to be in a position to take a shot or make a play when the game is on the line...

Watch the Pacers series again!!!

Look at the last 3 mins of the close games and then come back here and tell me i'm wrong!!!


A lucky lay-up because of great position doesn't make him great, just lucky...
He would never take a jump shot in that position in fear of missing...

I'm more then happy to point out the bad things in MJ's games if you would like to see if i'm just a hater?

[Round Mound]

Good. Why don't you get hired by LeBron's agent, I'm sure you could make millions just by telling him what you just wrote down here? It would solve the problem, which seems extremely simple.

[Hegotgame15]

There's never been such a combination of speed and strength in one body. So the "anyone his size" doesn't apply. Because "anyone his size" doesn't exist in the NBA. You never know what will happen. He's been in the league for 10 years already.

In the past years, he's improved his overall FG% (and not by dunking more if that's what you will reply) and his 3pt %, and he started working on his low-post moves. His opponents must be incredibly stupid to let him score when all they have to do is stay in front for a charge....

He is definitely not limited offensively, just different from the usual jump shooter that you think is the perfect model in the NBA.

I can agree with most of that...:)!

I can't agree he can sustain his scoring average if he doesn't have a easier way to score...

He can't just do what he has been doing for the next ten years because over time (like everyone else) his body will deteriorate....


That's why I say he will never be able to sustain his averages unless he can make changes to his game that don't rely heavily on his athletic ability!!!

Let me ask one question, who is the better SKILLED player...
Paul George or Lebron james.

Please bass your answer on skill level, nothing else...

[Hegotgame15]

Good. Why don't you get hired by LeBron's agent, I'm sure you could make millions just by telling him what you just wrote down here? It would solve the problem, which seems extremely simple.

Alright genius, you tell me what the problem is, if it isn't a mental one???

How do you explain his problem, at least now your admitting he has one...
That's a start:)!

[Round Mound]

Let me ask one question, who is the better SKILLED player...
Paul George or Lebron james.

Please bass your answer on skill level, nothing else...

Paul George? Well this player has even more work to do than LeBron. Because he doesn't have to develop skills to sustain his efficiency on the offensive end...

...he has to develop skills to become an efficient scorer first....

I'd take LeBron over George any day. I don't care if George is the most skilled, what I see is that he's a 41% FG skilled player.

[groundsupport]

Alright genius, you tell me what the problem is, if it isn't a mental one???

How do you explain his problem, at least now your admitting he has one...
That's a start:)!


Didn't you watch the game? Danny Green shut him down! :)! :eek: :rolleyes:


Lebron was outplayed by a guy who has been cut how many times?

[Round Mound]

Alright genius, you tell me what the problem is, if it isn't a mental one???

How do you explain his problem, at least now your admitting he has one...
That's a start:)!

I never said there was no problem with his output in the finals. Ever. I just keep repeating that I don't know what it is, and if if was that simple, LeBron's team would have find way to address the problem.

[skeen]

With lebron james being tagged as the NBA's Best player and World's Best player (seen it with many articles already) that of course comes with a price tag. People would expect a winner out of the best player of course. And if he looses a game definitely the haters rejoice and if he wins a game and everything is quiet since that is expected of him. But above it all ... isnt it a given that NBA is fixed. Its an entertainment company that delivers excitement to the people. How can they get high ratings if they dont extend the series. Now the haters will tune in to Game 6 and hope that Spurs will wrap it up. Sad to say youll just have yourself dissappointed. The Series is marked for Game 7.

Im no Lebron hater nor a fanatic ... everything is just so obvious so i just watch to enjoy

[GC1980]

I wouldn't go as far as to say George is more skilled than LBJ. Yes, LBJ relies a ton of the physical gifts but the guy has developed into a very good defender and his vision, awareness and passing is pretty amazing. I think there are a load of players more "skilled" than him that don't have the gifts but the guy is still very good. His issues with shrinking in the clutch are very real and unless he comes through big in the next two i think his growing legacy takes a major hit but until the series is over we won't know.

Even if he wins the ring I still agree he is incredibly limited offensively and over time, even without those gifts declining, teams will have more and more success slowing him in playoff series. The scouting report is out on LBJ.

[Hegotgame15]

Paul George? Well this player has even more work to do than LeBron. Because he doesn't have to develop skills to sustain his efficiency on the offensive end...

...he has to develop skills to become an efficient scorer first....

I'd take LeBron over George any day. I don't care if George is the most skilled, what I see is that he's a 41% FG skilled player.

Thank you:)!:)!:)!

I would also take Lebron right now over Paul George....

It makes total sense to want lebron over George right now because he is the better all round player,

BUT


What about when they are both at the age where they don't have that first step, they aren't as quick to get by people, they don't have the strength to battle down low in the post....

What will they both have to rely on????

SKILL and skill alone!

It will all be about which player has the better skills at getting open shots, creating space between himself and the defender!!!

The most important asset will be who has the better jump-shot fade-away...


Paul George already has a great shot/fade away, lebron needs to improve that aspect of his game OR when his athletic ability has gone, he will be an average play at best....



LEBRON JAMES is the greatest ATHLETE that has ever played in the NBA


HE is not even close to being top 20 all time of the SKILLED players...

[mr10pin]

So reading through some of this, combined with another member talking about FTs a ton in another thread, and I found this very interesting:

Michael Jordan
1st Three-Peat
36.3 Pts/gm, 52.6% FGs, 6.5 Reb/gm, 7.9 Ast/gm, 7.5 FTA/gm

2nd Three-Peat
31.1 Pts/gm, 43.4% FGs, 5.4 Reb/gm, 4.1 Ast/gm, 10.7 FTA/gm

I didn't realize his shooting declined so much in the second run. Also, that FT stat does make you at least consider the benefit of "getting the call."

Still likely the best all-time Finals player (I don't know much about the Celtics run in the 60s), but his game was definitely not the same the second run.

[Round Mound]

What about when they are both at the age where they don't have that first step, they aren't as quick to get by people, they don't have the strength to battle down low in the post....

What will they both have to rely on????

SKILL and skill alone!

It will all be about which player has the better skills at getting open shots, creating space between himself and the defender!!!

Well, you don't know how LeBron's game and body will be in, let's say, 5 years from now. And you don't know if George will age either.

[Round Mound]

So reading through some of this, combined with another member talking about FTs a ton in another thread, and I found this very interesting:

Michael Jordan
1st Three-Peat
36.3 Pts/gm, 52.6% FGs, 6.5 Reb/gm, 7.9 Ast/gm, 7.5 FTA/gm

2nd Three-Peat
31.1 Pts/gm, 43.4% FGs, 5.4 Reb/gm, 4.1 Ast/gm, 10.7 FTA/gm

I didn't realize his shooting declined so much in the second run. Also, that FT stat does make you at least consider the benefit of "getting the call."

Still likely the best all-time Finals player (I don't know much about the Celtics run in the 60s), but his game was definitely not the same the second run.

:)!:)!:)! But let's not bring "that guy" in this thread

[brentandbecca]

So reading through some of this, combined with another member talking about FTs a ton in another thread, and I found this very interesting:

Michael Jordan
1st Three-Peat
36.3 Pts/gm, 52.6% FGs, 6.5 Reb/gm, 7.9 Ast/gm, 7.5 FTA/gm

2nd Three-Peat
31.1 Pts/gm, 43.4% FGs, 5.4 Reb/gm, 4.1 Ast/gm, 10.7 FTA/gm

I didn't realize his shooting declined so much in the second run. Also, that FT stat does make you at least consider the benefit of "getting the call."

Still likely the best all-time Finals player (I don't know much about the Celtics run in the 60s), but his game was definitely not the same the second run.

the 2nd run did not need MJ as much IMO with Rodman & Kukoc additions and other players like Pippen playing well.
but still good to note

one thing I have not seen come up much in this thread is MJ competition vs Lebrons
IMO the teams from the 90s were much stronger than today's teams at the top
The Spurs may be the best Finals team he has faced thus far, but do you really see OKC or Dallas, etc being able to reach the Finals nback when MJ was playing and there was Houston or NY or Utah or Phoenix or Lakers or Portland, etc etc
There were some great players and strong teams

[freethrowtommy]

the 2nd run did not need MJ as much IMO with Rodman & Kukoc additions and other players like Pippen playing well.
but still good to note

one thing I have not seen come up much in this thread is MJ competition vs Lebrons
IMO the teams from the 90s were much stronger than today's teams at the top
The Spurs may be the best Finals team he has faced thus far, but do you really see OKC or Dallas, etc being able to reach the Finals nback when MJ was playing and there was Houston or NY or Utah or Phoenix or Lakers or Portland, etc etc
There were some great players and strong teams

As much as people believe that some of the teams from today wouldn't be able to compete with the 90s teams, nobody would have any clue.

Just like, when you look back at now in 20 years, there is a good chance you will think the 2013 NBA is stacked compared to the 2033 talent (2033 vs. 2013). The past has a tenancy to turn rosier as time goes on. People forget the crap teams and just remember the greatness...

[MikeMamba]

he might be

[jr24ai3]

So reading through some of this, combined with another member talking about FTs a ton in another thread, and I found this very interesting:

Michael Jordan
1st Three-Peat
36.3 Pts/gm, 52.6% FGs, 6.5 Reb/gm, 7.9 Ast/gm, 7.5 FTA/gm

2nd Three-Peat
31.1 Pts/gm, 43.4% FGs, 5.4 Reb/gm, 4.1 Ast/gm, 10.7 FTA/gm

I didn't realize his shooting declined so much in the second run. Also, that FT stat does make you at least consider the benefit of "getting the call."

Still likely the best all-time Finals player (I don't know much about the Celtics run in the 60s), but his game was definitely not the same the second run.

Jordan was younger and went to the basket a lot more in the first run which explains the higher FG%. The drop in the 2nd run can be attributed to being older 33-35, slower, and relying on a fade-away jump shot more often. Pippen really struggled with his shooting during the last 3 championships and the defenses focused on Jordan even more.

[Cubs_rock21]

He might end up with better overall (regular reason stats) but he will never surpass MJ's winning legacy....

When you look at a player like Lebron and see what he has actually achieved to what people project he will achieve...
They are and will be MILES apart...

He has never been reliable in the "clutch" and continues to be suspect any time he is pressured...




It's just plain stupid to think a player of his size will have the longevity of the players like MJ/Kobe who have other offensive weapons...

Lebron's game relies heavily on his size strength and speed, in a few years when he doesn't have those assets, what will he fall back on???
A fade away jump shot?

He's got a good percentage jump shot, only when he's open, but as soon as he has to jump in the air and avoid a block he loses his balance...

He can't jump to his peak and square himself to the rim and maintain a balanced shot like MJ/Kobe did...
He is uncoordinated most of time he is the air and always bails out and passes when he can't get the first shoot/lay-up he was looking for...

So I find it very hard to see him being a consistent threat in about 5 years from now unless he can add a fade away that can be relied on...

He needs to get his rings very quickly to try and surpass the others and from what I have seen, he is struggling to even get his second...

Do people think its going to get any easier to get these rings year after year?

The players today are far faster and the guards are flat great. Jordan didn't have to player against players like today. The game is softer today, but hands down the talent is greater. Jordan didn't play under the media spotlight that these players have to deal with. Jordan was womanizer and a chronic gambler. His wife said he was abusive. In today's world the media rips him apart. Look at what the media did to Tiger woods all because he cheated on his wife...Are you kidding me, he's an athlete not a god. Jordan never faced that.

Im from Chicago Jordan is an amazing player and yes he was a true champion, but my point is we may never truely be able to compare Lebron and Jordan even when it's said and done. Who knows how Jordan would have played in today's game. The NBA anymore is a giant Soap Opera. The media are bigger bloodsuckers than ever before.

If anything compare Kobe to Jordan, kobe played in this insane spotlight, was accused of rape and still managed 5 rings.

None of these players today can be put in the same sentence as Jordan except Kobe. Lebron has the potential to win a lot. Who knows what will happen in the years to come. No one does. You can't write it off that's for sure.

[groundsupport]

The players today are far faster and the guards are flat great. Jordan didn't have to player against players like today. The game is softer today, but hands down the talent is greater. Jordan didn't play under the media spotlight that these players have to deal with. Jordan was womanizer and a chronic gambler. His wife said he was abusive. In today's world the media rips him apart. Look at what the media did to Tiger woods all because he cheated on his wife...Are you kidding me, he's an athlete not a god. Jordan never faced that.

Im from Chicago Jordan is an amazing player and yes he was a true champion, but my point is we may never truely be able to compare Lebron and Jordan even when it's said and done. Who knows how Jordan would have played in today's game. The NBA anymore is a giant Soap Opera. The media are bigger bloodsuckers than ever before.

If anything compare Kobe to Jordan, kobe played in this insane spotlight, was accused of rape and still managed 5 rings.

None of these players today can be put in the same sentence as Jordan except Kobe. Lebron has the potential to win a lot. Who knows what will happen in the years to come. No one does. You can't write it off that's for sure.



That is highly laughable considering the Spurs are mostly in their mid 30's and Danny Green was cut 3-4 times in his NBA Career.


Next excuse please.

[freethrowtommy]

How come nobody remembers last year? Heat were facing an elimination Game 6 against Boston, in the garden, and he put up 45 points and 10 rebounds. I know it wasn't a finals game, but the guy has it in him to carry the team.

Lets let this thread die until the series plays out!

[Cubs_rock21]

That is highly laughable considering the Spurs are mostly in their mid 30's and Danny Green was cut 3-4 times in his NBA Career.


Next excuse please.

I'm not talking about the finals I'm talking the overall NBA/ It's much faster today than ever. You have to give Danny Green Credit. Kids becoming a great shooter. Also the spurs are not a joke team. You guys seem to be writing the Spurs off like they are horrible.

The Heat are playing a team who have over 10 combined rings. They know how to play, they are the most under rated team in the league and finish top 3 every year in the West.

Series is not over I still say Heat in 7.

I never once said Lebron was better than anyone, I simply am saying he has to potential to be in the end. Im simply responding to all the haters with Selective memory who come out of the woodworks to bash Lebron whenever they can.

[Cubs_rock21]

How come nobody remembers last year? Heat were facing an elimination Game 6 against Boston, in the garden, and he put up 45 points and 10 rebounds. I know it wasn't a finals game, but the guy has it in him to carry the team.

Lets let this thread die until the series plays out!

Selective memory ;)

[bdoody42]

How come nobody remembers last year? Heat were facing an elimination Game 6 against Boston, in the garden, and he put up 45 points and 10 rebounds. I know it wasn't a finals game, but the guy has it in him to carry the team.

Lets let this thread die until the series plays out!

People do seem to forget the great games he has had. Of course he has also struggled at times. Lets wait until the end of this series and see what happens.

[groundsupport]

I'm not talking about the finals I'm talking the overall NBA/ It's much faster today than ever. You have to give Danny Green Credit. Kids becoming a great shooter. Also the spurs are not a joke team. You guys seem to be writing the Spurs off like they are horrible

Not at all.

I'm talking about why Lebron has so many NBA Finals Games where he flat out stunk.

8-12.

Let me ask you this? Is KD or Jordan being held to 4 points in the final 22 minutes of game 5 of the nba finals?

Not a chance.

[Bulls1]

How come nobody remembers last year? Heat were facing an elimination Game 6 against Boston, in the garden, and he put up 45 points and 10 rebounds. I know it wasn't a finals game, but the guy has it in him to carry the team.

Lets let this thread die until the series plays out!

I don't get why people compare previous stats/situations against a completely DIFFERENT team. It's the SPURS they are facing not some other team.

[jr24ai3]

I'm not talking about the finals I'm talking the overall NBA/ It's much faster today than ever. You have to give Danny Green Credit. Kids becoming a great shooter. Also the spurs are not a joke team. You guys seem to be writing the Spurs off like they are horrible.

The Heat are playing a team who have over 10 combined rings. They know how to play, they are the most under rated team in the league and finish top 3 every year in the West.

Series is not over I still say Heat in 7

Can you explain the significant drop in PPG and shooting % by Lebron when comparing regular season to the NBA Finals. I believe he went from 52% shooting and 27ppg during the regular season of the 4 years he made it to the finals. He then went on to average 22ppg on 43% shooting in the Finals during those same 4 years.

[groundsupport]

Can you explain the significant drop in PPG and shooting % by Lebron when comparing regular season to the NBA Finals. I believe he went from 52% shooting and 27ppg during the regular season of the 4 years he made it to the finals. He then went on to average 22ppg on 43% shooting in the Finals during those same 4 years.

It's the faster and stronger players!!!!!!!!

People get so much stronger and faster from the Regular Season to the NBA Finals!

:)! :rolleyes:

[jr24ai3]

Not at all.

I'm talking about why Lebron has so many NBA Finals Games where he flat out stunk.

8-12.

Let me ask you this? Is KD or Jordan being held to 4 points in the final 22 minutes of game 5 of the nba finals?

Not a chance.

Here are some stats from a recent ESPN article that support Lebron and Wade's disappearing in the final minutes.

FROM ESPN ARTICLE:

Which duo is more clutch?

The biggest difference between the duos is their performance on the biggest stage -- the NBA Finals -- in clutch time -- the last five minutes with the score within five points.

Jordan alone scored 30 points in clutch time in the 1998 NBA Finals, the most by any player in an NBA Finals series since 1997. Jordan didn't commit a single turnover in clutch time in that series.

Jordan and Pippen combined to score 38 points in clutch time in the 1998 NBA Finals, the same amount of points James and Wade have scored in clutch time combined in the last three NBA Finals series.

The Bulls scored 0.98 points per play in clutch time in the 1998 NBA Finals, compared to the 0.78 points per play in clutch time for the Heat over the last three NBA Finals.

James is shooting 4-for-15 from the field (27%), including 1-for-9 on 3-pointers (11%), in clutch time over the last three NBA Finals series.

[Cubs_rock21]

Not at all.

I'm talking about why Lebron has so many NBA Finals Games where he flat out stunk.

8-12.

Let me ask you this? Is KD or Jordan being held to 4 points in the final 22 minutes of game 5 of the nba finals?

Not a chance.


You mean Kobe right? KD has been to the finals once and they lost in game 5 to the Heat. You really want to compare KD's only ever NBA finals to Lebron's now?

[groundsupport]

You mean Kobe right? KD has been to the finals once and they lost in game 5 to the Heat. You really want to compare KD's only ever NBA finals to Lebron's now?

KD is a bad example. I was going off watching him go off during the playoffs in close games over the last couple years.

Seems like he always found a while to score when OKC needed a bucket.

[Cubs_rock21]

Can you explain the significant drop in PPG and shooting % by Lebron when comparing regular season to the NBA Finals. I believe he went from 52% shooting and 27ppg during the regular season of the 4 years he made it to the finals. He then went on to average 22ppg on 43% shooting in the Finals during those same 4 years.

Obviously he needs to work on that. I will never know the pressures of playing under the media circus today, and I fully 100% believe it effects players. The guy is put on a pedestal in the NBA more than any player ever has in NBA history. Anytime he spit his gum out and doesn't throw it in the trash can he's scrutinized. You seem to think Lebron is a robot, and people seem to think Jordan would put up the same numbers in today's game.

[Cubs_rock21]

KD is a bad example. I was going off watching him go off during the playoffs in close games over the last couple years.

Seems like he always found a while to score when OKC needed a bucket.

KD is a freak of nature and a scoring machine. He could be a greatest scorer in NBA history when it's all said and done.

[jr24ai3]

Obviously he needs to work on that. I will never know the pressures of playing under the media circus today, and I fully 100% believe it effects players. The guy is put on a pedestal in the NBA more than any player ever has in NBA history. Anytime he spit his gum out and doesn't throw it in the trash can he's scrutinized. You seem to think Lebron is a robot, and people seem to think Jordan would put up the same numbers in today's game.

Dirk didn't have an issue with today's media spotlight. I never said Lebron was a robot, but clearly something is making him underperform when the spotlight is on him.

And I do think Jordan would put up even bigger numbers in todays game than he did during the late 80s and 90s. He was so strong mentally that I think he could have easily handled the spotlight.

[Cubs_rock21]

Dirk didn't have an issue with today's media spotlight. I never said Lebron was a robot, but clearly something is making him underperform when the spotlight is on him.

And I do think Jordan would put up even bigger numbers in todays game than he did during the late 80s and 90s. He was so strong mentally that I think he could have easily handled the spotlight.

Well we will never know if he could or not.

Is there another team in the Finals when the heat are in it? You would have fooled me. When the Heat win the media praises Lebron when the lose the media scorns him. I think that's ass backwards, they never give credit where credit is due. They always point out what Lebron did or didn't do. Any superstar has it easy in the finals when Lebron is there, they can quietly dominate, and when they lose, the media will be all over Lebron about how good he is. When that superstar on the other team wins, the media will be all over Lebron about how bad he did.

How can anyone perform at their highest level under that spotlight. It's even worse now than when Kobe was in the finals. Lebron's a beat and freak of nature, but yes even I admit the media is probably getting to him.

[mr10pin]

Jordan was younger and went to the basket a lot more in the first run which explains the higher FG%. The drop in the 2nd run can be attributed to being older 33-35, slower, and relying on a fade-away jump shot more often. Pippen really struggled with his shooting during the last 3 championships and the defenses focused on Jordan even more.

I thought about the age/jump shot angle, but wouldn't that mean his FT attempts would go down not up?

[jr24ai3]

I thought about the age/jump shot angle, but wouldn't that mean his FT attempts would go down not up?

Pump fake, get the guy in the air...that's 1 way. He still drove to the basket and was fouled. But he wasn't finishing at the rim as well as he was during 1990-1993.

[jr24ai3]

Well we will never know if he could or not.

Is there another team in the Finals when the heat are in it? You would have fooled me. When the Heat win the media praises Lebron when the lose the media scorns him. I think that's ass backwards, they never give credit where credit is due. They always point out what Lebron did or didn't do. Any superstar has it easy in the finals when Lebron is there, they can quietly dominate, and when they lose, the media will be all over Lebron about how good he is. When that superstar on the other team wins, the media will be all over Lebron about how bad he did.

How can anyone perform at their highest level under that spotlight. It's even worse now than when Kobe was in the finals. Lebron's a beat and freak of nature, but yes even I admit the media is probably getting to him.

He clearly wanted the spotlight when he was younger. He does have that giant "Chosen One" tattoo on his back.

[SocraticGoat777]

He might end up with better overall (regular reason stats) but he will never surpass MJ's winning legacy....

When you look at a player like Lebron and see what he has actually achieved to what people project he will achieve...
They are and will be MILES apart...

He has never been reliable in the "clutch" and continues to be suspect any time he is pressured...




It's just plain stupid to think a player of his size will have the longevity of the players like MJ/Kobe who have other offensive weapons...

Lebron's game relies heavily on his size strength and speed, in a few years when he doesn't have those assets, what will he fall back on???
A fade away jump shot?

He's got a good percentage jump shot, only when he's open, but as soon as he has to jump in the air and avoid a block he loses his balance...

He can't jump to his peak and square himself to the rim and maintain a balanced shot like MJ/Kobe did...
He is uncoordinated most of time he is the air and always bails out and passes when he can't get the first shoot/lay-up he was looking for...

So I find it very hard to see him being a consistent threat in about 5 years from now unless he can add a fade away that can be relied on...

He needs to get his rings very quickly to try and surpass the others and from what I have seen, he is struggling to even get his second...

Do people think its going to get any easier to get these rings year after year?


:)! Couldnt have said it better. Ive been saying pretty much the same for years. He is athletic, but doesn't have the scoring touch that the few elite in the NBA history possessed.

[hairyangryfella]

.... No wonder your name is angryfella^^

lol yeah dude has issues out the wazoo

So sarcasm and anger are the same thing? Ahhh ok! :)!

[freethrowtommy]

I don't get why people compare previous stats/situations against a completely DIFFERENT team. It's the SPURS they are facing not some other team.

So then why do we ever compare players in different eras? They all play different teams.

Nobody should ever compare any player to another player because they play different teams on different nights.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

The point of showing previous stats is to show that a player has the capability to do something. LeBron can take over games... but nobody is sure why he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't have the killer instinct... maybe he likes playing like Magic... who knows?

The more significant point is that people are burying the Heat before the series even plays out! This is a bad thread and OP should feel bad.

[bmf]

Are you dumb?

yes, he is.

No Iam not dumb.

yes, you are.

This thread is a fail.

yes, it is.

[bmf]

So sarcasm and anger are the same thing? Ahhh ok! :)!

*issues* is plural

[groundsupport]

So then why do we ever compare players in different eras? They all play different teams.

Nobody should ever compare any player to another player because they play different teams on different nights.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

The point of showing previous stats is to show that a player has the capability to do something. LeBron can take over games... but nobody is sure why he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't have the killer instinct... maybe he likes playing like Magic... who knows?

The more significant point is that people are burying the Heat before the series even plays out! This is a bad thread and OP should feel bad.

No one is burying the Heat. We are burying your king. Heat may win but no thanks to your king.

[hairyangryfella]

*issues* is plural

Since you seem to know me so well please do explain what issues I have...

[Orangejello727]

No one is burying the Heat. We are burying your king. Heat may win but no thanks to your king.

+100000%

The mere lebroney fans are relying on ripping stats from last year is a true testament to how much Lebron has NOT done this year in the finals.

When Lebron does not perform, its not Wades fault. Its not Spolestras fault. Its Lebrons fault! Thats how it works@

When the leader fails to lead his team, its not because there was no leader. Its because the Leader failed.

[freethrowtommy]

No one is burying the Heat. We are burying your king. Heat may win but no thanks to your king.

+100000%

The mere lebroney fans are relying on ripping stats from last year is a true testament to how much Lebron has NOT done this year in the finals.

When Lebron does not perform, its not Wades fault. Its not Spolestras fault. Its Lebrons fault! Thats how it works@

When the leader fails to lead his team, its not because there was no leader. Its because the Leader failed.

Yes, but you two just don't understand that the damn series isn't over yet!

Get it?!

LeBron hasn't failed anyone yet! He has two games to pull off and if he does, what will you say then?

I am not saying that you shouldn't criticize him because he has played like #@#@#@#@... I am saying that burying him before the series is even over yet is horse #@#@#@#@.

Until the Heat lose 4 games, what is the point of burying anyone?

[Nyfancam01]

Not at all.

I'm talking about why Lebron has so many NBA Finals Games where he flat out stunk.

8-12.

Let me ask you this? Is KD or Jordan being held to 4 points in the final 22 minutes of game 5 of the nba finals?

Not a chance.

hahahaha is KD even getting to the finals!?!?! NOPE. He looked AWFUL without Westbrook to save them.... So nice try.

[Quigley24]

hahahaha is KD even getting to the finals!?!?! NOPE. He looked AWFUL without Westbrook to save them.... So nice try.

Funny. Thing is he will have Westbrook and a younger, higher potential team than the Heat in the future. Even after the Harden mistake they still have PJ3, Jeremy Lamb, a 12th overall pick, and remarkable talent for such a young team. I'm not as high as everyone else is on KD, but he is one hell of a player on one hell of a team.

[Nyfancam01]

Funny. Thing is he will have Westbrook and a younger, higher potential team than the Heat in the future. Even after the Harden mistake they still have PJ3, Jeremy Lamb, a 12th overall pick, and remarkable talent for such a young team. I'm not as high as everyone else is on KD, but he is one hell of a player on one hell of a team.

I think KD is one of the top 3 or 4 players in the NBA.. Maybe even 2nd best since Kobe is nearly done but jeez... that comment was ridiculous. Durant is great, But westbrook deserves credit on that team also....

[jt16]

hahahaha is KD even getting to the finals!?!?! NOPE. He looked AWFUL without Westbrook to save them.... So nice try.

Pretty sure Durant played like #@#@#@#@ in the Finals last year and Westbrook was the only reason why some of those games were close.

[Quigley24]

I think KD is one of the top 3 or 4 players in the NBA.. Maybe even 2nd best since Kobe is nearly done but jeez... that comment was ridiculous. Durant is great, But westbrook deserves credit on that team also....

Westbrook does deserve credit. He's an awesome offensive weapon. Regardless of who deserves credit though, KD and Westbrook will be in the finals again soon.

[Nyfancam01]

Westbrook does deserve credit. He's an awesome offensive weapon. Regardless of who deserves credit though, KD and Westbrook will be in the finals again soon.

probably next season tbh. and I expect them to face the HEAT again if Miami can with this series....

[Orangejello727]

Yes, but you two just don't understand that the damn series isn't over yet!

Get it?!

LeBron hasn't failed anyone yet! He has two games to pull off and if he does, what will you say then?

I am not saying that you shouldn't criticize him because he has played like #@#@#@#@... I am saying that burying him before the series is even over yet is horse #@#@#@#@.

Until the Heat lose 4 games, what is the point of burying anyone?

Why do I have to wait till the end of the series to say that Lebron did NOT perform well in game 5? If the heat win the title, does it change game 5? It doesnt for me. No matter what happens Lebron did not perform in game 1,3 or 5. Even if they win the title. Another example of why he doesnt deserve the MVP if the heat actually win the title.

[justdagoodstuff]

If this is a team game, then why does Lebron get so much attention? You never heard the media blaming Dennis Rodman when the Bulls lost a playoff game! He's the leader of the team and the so called "best player on the planet"! Which is garbage btw. Durant is the best player in the league and maybe second to only Kobe. Lebron is good, don't get me wrong, but he's not a leader. Maybe it's been the hype that's haunted him his entire career, but to me he's nothing special. The Heat bought their last ring, but money only goes so far!


Durant has ways to go before being considered one of the top 2 in the game. I've said it on here once, I've said it on here twice, and I'm about to again, and that is that besides making it to the Finals last year and losing to the MIA, what has Durant done? I can tell you, he's won scoring titles, and became an NBA All-Star,,,,so far* he's a modern day Tracy McGrady.

Now I really enjoyed watching McGrady when he was TMac, and I like Durant also, he's a good dude, but this is not about what kind of character he has, it's about what he's done so far as a player.

[justdagoodstuff]

Watch MIA win the next 2 games lol, so many on here and out there will be beside themselves lol.

[freethrowtommy]

Why do I have to wait till the end of the series to say that Lebron did NOT perform well in game 5? If the heat win the title, does it change game 5? It doesnt for me. No matter what happens Lebron did not perform in game 1,3 or 5. Even if they win the title. Another example of why he doesnt deserve the MVP if the heat actually win the title.

LeBron had the triple double in game 1... that is bad?

I get game 3 and 5, but you are reaching on one... just because they lost.

[freethrowtommy]

Watch MIA win the next 2 games lol, so many on here and out there will be beside themselves lol.

It would be golden if they do!

[Nyfancam01]

It would be golden if they do!

I'll second that!!!!

[rookies]

And lebron is shooting 33%.... love the guy. TERRIBLE ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE in finals games.

[nickha2]

He looks scared out there. Always with the between the legs dribbling at the 3 line back and forth then drives in but passes out every single time

[ninjacookies]

Chalk up another game for lebron being a 'facilitator' and deferring to his teammates lololol.

He's got one half to prove himself as a worthy legendary star. Unfortunately Duncan is the one filling that role right now.

[ninjacookies]

Spurs will win tonight. Heat just look deflated, and no one is stepping to the plate...except...Mario. No answer for legitimate bigs has been the Heat's biggest flaw, and it's really showing tonight.

[rookies]

Count on lebron to shoot a jumper make it then not for 7 minutes then take another deep jumper and not even come close. Then not attack the glass and pass the next 5 possessions...

[Kingofkings1281]

Like I said earlier in this thread, LeBron DOES NOT have a smooth and reliable jumper. His game is based off of getting to the rim and creating. The Spurs defense has pretty much taken that option off of the table. I credit them for that.

[jt16]

Chalk up another game for lebron being a 'facilitator' and deferring to his teammates lololol.

He's got one half to prove himself as a worthy legendary star. Unfortunately Duncan is the one filling that role right now.

I don't understand how you can watch this game and not realized what is taking place. Lebron gets the ball and spurs double team him he is forced to pass the ball. Duncan is not getting double teamed because the threat of the 3 so he is having his way with Bosh.

Really not hard to understand.

[nickha2]

I don't understand how you can watch this game and not realized what is taking place. Lebron gets the ball and spurs double team him he is forced to pass the ball. Duncan is not getting double teamed because the threat of the 3 so he is having his way with Bosh.

Really not hard to understand.

Not true at all. Everytime i see lebron with the ball he is out at the 3 line dribbling between his lega doing nothing. Drives in and dished it to wade. This is in single coverage each and every time

[pingbling23]

I don't know what's going on, since wade called lebron out saying he and wade need more touches, the heat have not looked like the heat....

[Chucky]

Here's my thoughts on Lebron this game....Boris Friggin Diaw is shutting him down. LMAO...

[Burt-Reynolds]

I don't understand how you can watch this game and not realized what is taking place. Lebron gets the ball and spurs double team him he is forced to pass the ball. Duncan is not getting double teamed because the threat of the 3 so he is having his way with Bosh.

Really not hard to understand.

sorry but i have to chime in here. been trying to stay out of these types of threads, but it's not like the spurs are throwing hard doubles at him as soon as he touches the ball. is he is getting attention on drives and penetration with help d, and then kicking out to open shooters? sure.

however for most of this game the spurs are just playing him 3-4 feet off the ball to keep him out of the paint. he just refuses to take advantage of it and pull up for jumpers. like others have said his jumper is garbage and unreliable for the most part, no easy way of saying that. what kind of superstar gets 3-4 feet of space like that constantly and doesn't make the opponent pay. you would never see a team playing that type of d on jordan or kobe, that's for sure.

[ninjacookies]

yep. barring a stupendous 4th quarter, lebron CHOKED.

Looks completely lost out there on offense. Catch and shoot 3 pointers, fake jab steps and penetrations and kick outs to chalmers for 3. Pretty much sums it up.

[Cubs_rock21]

suddenly Lebron is rising!! If he rises up in this game and in game 7 than I think he deserves the MVP.

He needs to learn how to make free throws. He will DEF. never be better than Jordan there lol.

[sunsfan8]

This is a thread? No wonder the basketball section has the shortbus rep.

[Cubs_rock21]

This is a thread? No wonder the basketball section has the shortbus rep.

Lol yea it's always good to make a thread like this when a series isn't over

[lb_sa]

Definitely the biggest cry baby. I've seen him arguing a call and not get back several times.

[toppsfan]

Before finals I said Lebron was best ever... After finals best choker ever...

[jr24ai3]

ESPN headline says "Lebron Clutch Late". What game is ESPN watching? In the final 4 minutes and OT, Lebron shot 2 for 7 with 5 turnovers. In what world is that clutch?

[sljock53]

lebron has a triplle double hits a huge three and poured in 16+ in the 4th and gets called a choker haha this thread is a joke and if you think lebron shouldnt be considered one of the best to play the game get over yourself... haters will hate

[slugger22]

Lebron is the greatest player in the world !!!

[slugger22]

ESPN headline says "Lebron Clutch Late". What game is ESPN watching? In the final 4 minutes and OT, Lebron shot 2 for 7 with 5 turnovers. In what world is that clutch?

ESPN wouldn't bad mouth "The King" right ?

[jr24ai3]

lebron has a triplle double hits a huge three and poured in 16+ in the 4th and gets called a choker haha this thread is a joke and if you think lebron shouldnt be considered one of the best to play the game get over yourself... haters will hate

Look at more than just his final line in the box score. He struggles in the final minutes. He made 1 three, but he badly missed another 2 threes. If you didn't think he was falling apart during the final 4 minutes of the 4th you must be blind.

He got them back into the game, but he struggled late. It's a fact.

[pingbling23]

yep. barring a stupendous 4th quarter, lebron CHOKED.

Looks completely lost out there on offense. Catch and shoot 3 pointers, fake jab steps and penetrations and kick outs to chalmers for 3. Pretty much sums it up.

lebron is in a tough spot right now with his jumper not working. shoot the jumper with a low percentage, drive to the basket and get fouled no call, or pass to an open shooter with a high percentage? its not a tough basketball play to make (drive, draw 2-3 defenders, hit a wide open player). im sure lebrons assists in game 6 contributed to at least 25 points, not to mention those baskets lead to the heat's defense getting to set up and make stops.

[sljock53]

he scored 18 in the 4th... what else do u want him to do? oh yea mean his teammates had to do some work also to win that game? I forgot it was a 5 on 5 game and not a lebron vs 5 game

Look at more than just his final line in the box score. He struggles in the final minutes. He made 1 three, but he badly missed another 2 threes. If you didn't think he was falling apart during the final 4 minutes of the 4th you must be blind.

He got them back into the game, but he struggled late. It's a fact.

[tristan20]

Lebron is a choker all right, he CHOKED the spurs team. MONSTER MODE!

[Yanke3z11]

Michael Jordan had his infamous "Flu Game" and now LeBron has the "Headband Game" :D

[Gcervantes2]

Hell yeah he is the biggest choker.

Who the hell makes it to the finals 3 years in a row?

Triple Double tonight? pfft. Scrub

Plays through the loss of his Headband with a clutch 3..

[Kingofkings1281]

This thread would be 20+ pages by now if they had lost. The people who live to see LeBron fail will just have to wait to break out the kegs.

[SocraticGoat777]

I mean anyone who knows basketball knows Miami got uber lucky. Lebron choked as usual. THere is not need to argue this. Spurs deserve to win this title but now it looks like Miami is going to steal the rings

[Gcervantes2]

I mean anyone who knows basketball knows Miami got uber lucky. Lebron choked as usual. THere is not need to argue this. Spurs deserve to win this title but now it looks like Miami is going to steal the rings

:D :)!

LeBron James - TRIPLE DOUBLE! *Choked*

You know basketball.

[Yanke3z11]

I mean anyone who knows basketball knows Miami got uber lucky. Lebron choked as usual. THere is not need to argue this. Spurs deserve to win this title but now it looks like Miami is going to steal the rings

Ignorant......

[hairyangryfella]

:D :)!

LeBron James - TRIPLE DOUBLE! *Choked*

You know basketball.

Guessing you didn't watch any of the game... he had one good period where he scored some points. In the last few minutes he was throwing terrible passes, missing shots badly... Allen bailed him and the Heat out. But yeah, just look at the box score :)!

[tristan20]

Guessing you didn't watch any of the game... he had one good period where he scored some points. In the last few minutes he was throwing terrible passes, missing shots badly... Allen bailed him and the Heat out. But yeah, just look at the box score :)!

Well without him they would be cleaning confetti :)!

He was a monster offensively and defensively.
No other active player today could have done any better IMO. He did it on both ends.

Plus he had to guard a PG, Tony Parker the entire game.

LdYrAv-EIwk

[SocraticGoat777]

Well without him they would be cleaning confetti :)!

He was a monster offensively and defensively.
No other active player today could have done any better IMO. He did it on both ends.

Plus he had to guard a PG, Tony Parker the entire game.

LdYrAv-EIwk

THats with 6 minutes and counting... He choked hardcore T-minus 3 minutes

[tristan20]

THats with 6 minutes and counting... He choked hardcore T-minus 3 minutes

Who cares how minutes are left?

Check his stats before the 4th, then check after the 4th. :rolleyes:

Answer me this question, the Heat won the game today. Who was the best player on the HEAT tonight?
I guess you think Wade was also the best player on the floor right? HAHA

[SocraticGoat777]

Who cares how minutes are left?

Check his stats before the 4th, then check after the 4th. :rolleyes:

I guess you think Wade was also the best player on the floor right? HAHA

Did you not watch the game? That 3 by ray allen was a miracle shot... That 3 by lebron after he missed was a miracle happenings... It was all luck. Jesus saved Lebrons cards values dropping 50%. I guess wel have to wait 2 more nights for King James to become Lebrick for the whole world to see

[tristan20]

Did you not watch the game? That 3 by ray allen was a miracle shot... That 3 by lebron after he missed was a miracle happenings... It was all luck. Jesus saved Lebrons cards values dropping 50%. I guess wel have to wait 2 more nights for King James to become Lebrick for the whole world to see


You go blabbing about luck and card dropping value. It has nothing to do with my question

I didn't ask you that, I asked who was the best player for the Heat tonight?

[Hegotgame15]

How can anyone defend LEBRON's absolute failure in the last 3 mins of this game???

He play's well for 3/4 of the forth and then when the game is on the line he consistently fails....

He gets bailed out and his team pulls off an extremely lucky win and then his fan boys chime in and say what he did was great???????????????????????

JUST ANOTHER CHOKE BY THE KING!!!

[tristan20]

How can anyone defend LEBRON's absolute failure in the last 3 mins of this game???

He play's well for 3/4 of the forth and then when the game is on the line he consistently fails....

He gets bailed out and his team pulls off an extremely lucky win and then his fan boys chime in and say what he did was great???????????????????????

JUST ANOTHER CHOKE BY THE KING!!!

Yeah he choked the Spurs :)!

[Hegotgame15]

Yeah he choked the Spurs :)!

He did in the forth until the last 3 minutes then he turned in to the CHOKER he is:)!


ALL the greats of this game never choked like he does consistently....



LEBRON JAMES, THE KING OF CHOKE.

[tristan20]

He did in the forth until the last 3 minutes then he turned in to the CHOKER he is:)!


ALL the greats of this game never choked like he does consistently....



LEBRON JAMES, THE KING OF CHOKE.



ezDDZFuo6zU

[Round Mound]

And it's not as if Jordan had Steve Kerr or John Paxon to save his a$$ on some occasions. Nah, of course MJ did it all by himself, and all better than anyone else in the universe :rolleyes:

[tristan20]

People forget jordan won 1 playoff game and lost 9 games without pippen.

To Say Wade now is even close to Pippen is a joke.

[SocraticGoat777]

Jordan is 100x the player Lebron is, Please dont disrespect the game by comparing them. Its like comparing a lexus to a ferrari. You can compare him to Drose, Wade, Iverson, Bird, Malone, Hakeem, Durant, etc... But Jordan is on his own, He is the God of NBA

[Hegotgame15]

ezDDZFuo6zU

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

You are a spot on!!!!

Thanks for showing me ONE game where MJ didn't get it done!!!!!!!!!

Now lets get the highlight reel out for Lebron's gmaes where he didn't get it done....


Now lets see what the difference is????


You would have to be very stupid to try and compare those 2 players in clutch moments....:)!


THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ADMITTING HE CHOKED AGAIN:)!:)!:)!

[tristan20]

Proved you wrong simple as that.

[Round Mound]

People forget jordan won 1 playoff game and lost 9 games without pippen.

To Say Wade now is even close to Pippen is a joke.

I like that!

[Round Mound]

But Jordan is on his own, He is the God of NBA

But I don't believe in god....

[jj2]

ezDDZFuo6zU

A lot of people have this romanticised idea that Jordan always took over the game in the fourth, never missed or made a mistake, and never had anyone else bail him out.

[SocraticGoat777]

But I don't believe in god....

Funny, Your Jesus saved your master Lebron tonight :)!

[Hegotgame15]

He did in the forth until the last 3 minutes then he turned in to the CHOKER he is:)!


ALL the greats of this game never choked like he does consistently....



LEBRON JAMES, THE KING OF CHOKE.

People can't read????????????????????????????????????

ALL the greats of this game never choked like he does CONSISTENTLY....

[SocraticGoat777]

People forget jordan won 1 playoff game and lost 9 games without pippen.

To Say Wade now is even close to Pippen is a joke.

Wade in his prime is comparable to pippen in his prime. Wade won a ring w/o Bron. Bron won a ring with Wade. IF you swapped out Pippen and Swaped in Wade in his prime.... Bulls would still have all those rings

[Round Mound]

Funny, Your Jesus saved your master Lebron tonight :)!

If it wasn't for the 32pts LeBron scored (and his 11 assists, and 10 rebounds), Allen's 3-pointer would have been meaningless. Steve Kerr did it for MJ, same for Paxon and many other players in the Bulls rosters.

[Round Mound]

Wade in his prime is comparable to pippen in his prime. IF you swapped out Pippen and Swaped in Wade in his prime.... Bulls would still have all those rings

Thing is: Wade is not in his prime. Or he may be, age-wise, in his prime, but his knee is bothering him to say the least...

[Hegotgame15]

Proved you wrong simple as that.

HOW???

LEBRON CONSITENTLY chokes....

Your saying MJ consistently choked????

What planet are you from???

What game are you watching?

STATS/BOX SCORES DON'T TELL THE STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED IN TODAY'S GAME.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO WATCH THE GAME AGAIN AND SEE EXACTLY WHAT LEBRON DID IN THE LAST 3 MINUTES......:)!:)!

[SocraticGoat777]

HOW???

LEBRON CONSITENTLY chokes....

Your saying MJ consistently choked????

What planet are you from???

What game are you watching?

STATS/BOX SCORES DON'T TELL THE STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED IN TODAY'S GAME.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO WATCH THE GAME AGAIN AND SEE EXACTLY WHAT LEBRON DID IN THE LAST 3 MINUTES......:)!:)!

No bother arguing with him, Bron can do no wrong...

[Round Mound]

Can we just answer "yes" to the OP question and move on?

[Kingofkings1281]

I've really never seen people try so incredibly hard to discredit someone. I still wonder how much more Jordan would have been criticized in his prime had all of these message boards been around. I sincerely believe that all of the people that hail him as a demigod would be the same people tearing him apart. The conspiracy theories would run rampant.

Bottom line is that this is one hell of a Finals series that features multiple future hall of famers. Enjoy it. Stop crying and moaning about every little thing and watch it all unfold. Game 7 should be one for the books.

[crackberry]

Jordan was bashed by the media a lot more than LeBron is now. In the 80s the darlings were Magic + Bird. MJ was the third wheel. Now he is the GOAT and no one talks about how much he was dissed for choking in the playoffs...

The fact that you haters are using MJ as the the ONLY gauge for LeBron means you think LeBron is great! Stop thinking you're such a NBA purist by living in the past... current LeBron nuthuggers like tristan20 would take MJ anyday, but he is living in the now and understands the game enough to recognize LeBron is the best right now (even though deep down he knows KD is actually the best)

[nissandriver77]

Lol there are so many kids on this board it's not funny.

[bmf]

Jordan is 100x the player Lebron is, Please dont disrespect the game by comparing them. Its like comparing a lexus to a ferrari. You can compare him to Drose, Wade, Iverson, Bird, Malone, Hakeem, Durant, etc... But Jordan is on his own, He is the God of NBA

and the jordan nuthugger award goes to...

[Bryanjs14]

Last five possessions of regulation for Miami: Lebron Airball, Lebron Turnover, Lebron Airball, Lebron Made 3pt, Ray Allen made 3pt to send into OT.

2 airballs and a turnover is NOT clutch. Ray Allens contract just became worth every penny from 1 shot. If it wasn't for Jesus Shuttlesworth, the Spurs would be champions. Lebron had a great second half, until the end of regulation.

[nissandriver77]

Last five possessions of regulation for Miami: Lebron Airball, Lebron Turnover, Lebron Airball, Lebron Made 3pt, Ray Allen made 3pt to send into OT.

2 airballs and a turnover is NOT clutch. Ray Allens contract just became worth every penny from 1 shot. If it wasn't for Jesus Shuttlesworth, the Spurs would be champions. Lebron had a great second half, until the end of regulation.

I never realized Basketball was only offense ?:eek:

[Orangejello727]

I dont know whose worse, MJ fans or Lebron fans. They keep insisting either player can do no wrong.

[lb_sa]

LeBron played with zero basketball IQ in the final 3 minutes and did nothing in OT.

He is the best in the game today, but will never have the "it" factor like Jordan or Kobe. He is great, but Jordan/LeBron shouldn't be used in the same sentence. That's my opinion and all I'll say on it lol. A lot of kids these days don't even remember how good Jordan really was.

[bmf]

I dont know whose worse, MJ fans or Lebron fans. They keep insisting either player can do no wrong.

which is a big reason why there are so many of these stupid threads

[pingbling23]

LeBron played with zero basketball IQ in the final 3 minutes and did nothing in OT.

He is the best in the game today, but will never have the "it" factor like Jordan or Kobe. He is great, but Jordan/LeBron shouldn't be used in the same sentence. That's my opinion and all I'll say on it lol. A lot of kids these days don't even remember how good Jordan really was.
lebron did nothing in overtime? the heat had 6 floor points in overtime, lebron had a basket and 2 assits in ot... looks like he contributed to 6/8 pts for the heat in ot.

[nissandriver77]

lebron did nothing in overtime? the heat had 6 floor points in overtime, lebron had a basket and 2 assits in ot... looks like he contributed to 6/8 pts for the heat in ot.

You have to understand these guy's if you don't score you have done nothing LOL

[nickha2]

lebron did nothing in overtime? the heat had 6 floor points in overtime, lebron had a basket and 2 assits in ot... looks like he contributed to 6/8 pts for the heat in ot.

You do realize that without ray allens 3 lebron would have been called a choker by the media for his 2 turnovers in the final min

[RedSoxFan28]

Without LeBron bricking that three in 4th with a few seconds left the ball would never of went to Bosh which wouldn't have led to Allen's clutch three with 5 seconds left. :rolleyes: You can all thank LeBron for giving Allen that three opportunity ;)!

[toppsfan]

How can anyone defend LEBRON's absolute failure in the last 3 mins of this game???

He play's well for 3/4 of the forth and then when the game is on the line he consistently fails....

He gets bailed out and his team pulls off an extremely lucky win and then his fan boys chime in and say what he did was great???????????????????????

JUST ANOTHER CHOKE BY THE KING!!!

If they lose this game then everyone recognizes this, why do Heat fans not see how awful he was?

[johncaso]

If they lose this game then everyone recognizes this, why do Heat fans not see how awful he was?

So the three pointer he hit with 28 seconds left was nothing right. The triple double he had was nothing as well

[IamRalpho]

Lebrons 3 pointer was pretty amazing, but the two turn overs and the terrible 3 pt attempt were pretty awful and looked desperate.

Ray Allen pretty much saved Lebron from actually deserving the choker label last night.

[rudyjustinfarrell]

Lebrons 3 pointer was pretty amazing, but the two turn overs and the terrible 3 pt attempt were pretty awful and looked desperate.

Ray Allen pretty much saved Lebron from actually deserving the choker label last night.

Don't forget Ginobili's poor play the last few minutes and in OT. Some of those "attacks" at the basket were awful.

[IamRalpho]

Don't forget Ginobili's poor play the last few minutes and in OT. Some of those "attacks" at the basket were awful.

He's been all over the place all series, I was just simplifying it.

Spurs blew this, I love the Heat conspiracy theories, and everything but the Spurs blew this themselves.

Lebron sure tried to blow it by himself and almost did, but Ray Allen saved him.

[pingbling23]

simply put, ray allen did save this game, the series, and the heat's chance for a title. lebron made stupid errors (can anyone name a player that hasnt?). lebron came through when it mattered, leading the heat to a win. its the same old thing, several people will point out the negatives (lebron's poor fg%, the turnovers, bad shots) but not talk about the 3 steals and the block when the heat desperately needed it, scoring when he had to. it just amazes me, people are saying he choked when he hit a 3 late in the game to keep them in it and that he contributed on 6/8 pts for the heat in overtime. yes he made mistakes, but its a team game and the heat responded and the team stepped up and won. but if people say lebron didnt lead them to this win, i dont know what else he can do. i can understand if lebron had 14/5/4 shooting 30% from the field, but this wasnt the case. chalmers came up huge, ray allen came up when it really counted, and several of the heats role players did their job. lebron had a triple double and lead the heat to a victory in a must win game 6 of the finals, i wished he would have been better in crunch time, but he did enough and i can live with that.

[jr24ai3]

I want the Spurs to win Thursday. But if Miami wins, I want it to be a close game in the final 2 minutes and I want Lebron to prove me wrong. I want Lebron to take over in the final minute, hitting a couple of clutch shots when Miami is down to win the game.

As a Lebron hater, that's what I haven't seen and makes me hate all the attention he gets. Yes he is the best all-around player. But he hasn't proven to be clutch on the biggest stage like Kobe or MJ. Sure, you can show me 1 or 2 game winners in the first or second round. But I want him to do it on the biggest stage. I love seeing players come up clutch in the final minute, and you rarely see that from Lebron. He can do it, I just think he starts overthinking in the final minutes.

[Hegotgame15]

simply put, ray allen did save this game, the series, and the heat's chance for a title. lebron made stupid errors (can anyone name a player that hasnt?). lebron came through when it mattered, leading the heat to a win. its the same old thing, several people will point out the negatives (lebron's poor fg%, the turnovers, bad shots) but not talk about the 3 steals and the block when the heat desperately needed it, scoring when he had to. it just amazes me, people are saying he choked when he hit a 3 late in the game to keep them in it and that he contributed on 6/8 pts for the heat in overtime. yes he made mistakes, but its a team game and the heat responded and the team stepped up and won. but if people say lebron didnt lead them to this win, i dont know what else he can do. i can understand if lebron had 14/5/4 shooting 30% from the field, but this wasnt the case. chalmers came up huge, ray allen came up when it really counted, and several of the heats role players did their job. lebron had a triple double and lead the heat to a victory in a must win game 6 of the finals, i wished he would have been better in crunch time, but he did enough and i can live with that.

There is something wrong with you and your blinded love for Lebron...



Would you still feel the same if the Heat had lost????



YES my player got the win and a triple double and played great D and got good steals and played with no head band:)!:)!:)!


YES my player choked at the end of the game and put his team in a position to lose the Championship AGAIN, but that's OK he's the MVP :)!:)!:)!

[Orangejello727]

We must give credit to Lebron. He is the reason why Ray Allen hit the 3 pointer needed.

When the heat win, IT MUST be because of Lebron.

When the heat lose, IT CANNOT be because of Lebron.

This is how it works!

[JOHNJOHNNY]

We must give credit to Jordan. He is the reason why Paxon/Kerr hit the 3 pointer needed.

When the Bulls win, IT MUST be because of Jordan.

When the Bulls lose, IT CANNOT be because of Jordan.

This is how it works!

Just about sums it up!!!

I mean those first 6 or 7 years when Jordan was getting put out of the playoffs, he just hadn't developed that "Refuse to lose Attitude" he is known for.

I guess it is just a coincidence that Jordan developed that "Refuse to lose attitude" when Pippen, Ho Grant, and Phil Jackson show up!!!

Amitrite:D:)!

[Orangejello727]

Im in agreeance. MJ was the reason why the Bulls lost and won.

Kobe was the reason why the Lakers won or lost.

Lebron is the reason why the Heat won and Cleveland lost. Dont blame anyone else!

[tristan20]

The chokers were Tim Duncan 0 pts in the 4th, Manu 8 TOs, Leonard missing a FT to seal the deal.

Yet you say the man that lead the comeback choked? Without his big 3 with 20 secs left, Ray Allen's last shot would be worthless.

[justdagoodstuff]

Because of the announcement special thing he did on ESPN, Lebron has put himself in a position with many out there that know matter what he does, good or bad, they will find a way to bash him over it.

[freethrowtommy]

You have to understand these guy's if you don't score you have done nothing LOL

That is about how it works in the minds of some. The only way to affect a basketball game is to score points.

You know what the "it" factor is? Scoring.

People don't seem to understand that an assist is just as valuable as scoring points... because to get an assist, a person had to SCORE POINTS.

Do I think LeBron is perfect? Hell no! I don't think he is better than Jordan in terms of scoring and killer instinct. But LeBron sees the floor better than Jordan and is a much more physical presence.

People need to understand, LeBron doesn't play Jordan/Kobe ball. LeBron plays Magic ball. There is nothing wrong with Magic ball.

[motu79]

These thread is on page 10 and I haven't read but the last 10-12 posts.
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You all realize this is a TEAM sport, right?

[johncaso]

The chokers were Tim Duncan 0 pts in the 4th, Manu 8 TOs, Leonard missing a FT to seal the deal.

Yet you say the man that lead the comeback choked? Without his big 3 with 20 secs left, Ray Allen's last shot would be worthless.

It's amazing how a guy can have a triple double in a finals game, lead your team back so they have a fighting chance, play almost the entire game without resting, play both ends of the floor non stop and he choked . At some point all this hate needs to stop

[Kingofkings1281]

It's amazing how a guy can have a triple double in a finals game, lead your team back so they have a fighting chance, play almost the entire game without resting, play both ends of the floor non stop and he choked . At some point all this hate needs to stop

The criticism will never stop. People love to see him fail. He didn't play a GREAT game last night, but people are acting like he did absolutely nothing to contribute to the win. They wouldn't have even had an outside shot to win without what he did in the 4th quarter. Ray Allen saved this series, but he wouldn't have been in position to do that without LeBron. Everyone can now continue ranting.

[Frankp2311]

I like to beat up on Lebron as much as the next hater :devil: but really the Heat win or lose as a team. Too much talent on Miami to blame a loss or win on one player.