If the Heat win tonight, I will be sad

[dasiegel]

I know there are a million threads about this and rightfully so but here are my 2 cents:

1. If you are anyone but the Heat's fan, you better pray that the Spurs win. No other team is close to winning a title and the Heat will win at least the next 2 years if they win this year and have that type of momentum barring injury.

But dasiegel, what about the bulls when they get Rose back? Well, they definitely will be the team that rivals them the most because they are big and physical but not having that depp playoff experience and having him miss all of this past season will make it a tough task.

But dasiegel, what about the Pacers? Well, they are good and they have that toughness too but there are also a lot of questions there. Can they keep West? Can they play the same way or better when Granger is back? What are they gonna do at PG? They are still a step behind.

But dasiegel, what about SA and OKC, or if Howard joins Harden in Houston? SA will be this same team but two of their players will be a year old... which also means Leonard and some of their young guys will be better so they have a shot, but their window is small without some moves. OKC lost their shot when they lost Harden. Durant will win titles but not for a few years. They lack scoring, their offense is very ISO based and I[m not convinced they can even beat the Memphis' of the world. If Howard joins Houston and they have a core of Lin, Harden, Parsons, Howard, Asik, Beverly, etc. that is a good start but it'll take them a year or two to reach that experience level.

Other teams like my team, the Knicks, the Lakers if they keep Howard and make a big move or any other team just won't get over that hump without some personell changes.

I fear the worst for all of these teams if Miami goes to 3 straight finals and wins 2 of them against a league without big men and with the big 3 being in their prime sans Wade with some injuries. They can all rest this Summer, there is no Olympics and I don't see them getting worse for at least 2 years. It would completely annoy me if Lebron was right and won not 1, not 2 but 5-6-7-8 titles becasue then everyoen would sick his duck and the Jordan comparisons would really start when we all know that they hand picked each other and quite frankly the rest of the league just isn't that good right now...

EXCEPT for SA, they could turn this around for everyone who isn't a Heat fan! But i see this goign the way the Celtics went last year when they were up 3-2:(

[hellojeffy]

CP3 and Howard and JSmoove in offseason to Dallas and then another champ.
Please. XD

[scackles]

dont agree... after next year the heat are most likely going to break down as the form we know now.. if that means lebron leaving or wade and bosh being replaced. Lebron is the best in the world wherever he goes will be the #1 team... its how it is

OKC with a healthy westbrook will be back..

stop the jordan comparision they're lame, sit back and enjoy what we are seeing first hand before it passes us by.

[pac213up]

I cannot stand the Heat but really do not care if they win or lose to be honest. Would also be shocked if they looked the same next season given the financial situation. Bosh or Wade will be shopped hard. Still expect them to be strong though. Also the Clippers will be loaded with KG, Doc, & maybe Pierce.

[dasiegel]

stop the jordan comparision they're lame, sit back and enjoy what we are seeing first hand before it passes us by.

I hate the Jordan comparison, its not even close and shouldn't be after only 10 years in the league but there are enough threads about that.

The point is, if they lose, they will probably split, if they win, why wouldn't they stay together and do something legendary... there is more reaosn to worry if they win again this year.

[Wings]

No titles are guaranteed, especially with an older Wade. The Miami Heat are old, old, old.

[hotbox]

See my sig.

[scackles]

I hate the Jordan comparison, its not even close and shouldn't be after only 10 years in the league but there are enough threads about that.

The point is, if they lose, they will probably split, if they win, why wouldn't they stay together and do something legendary... there is more reaosn to worry if they win again this year.

Wade is breaking down... bosh is bosh... i think regardless the break down is coming either way.

[Nyfancam01]

When the Heat win tonight, it will be rad.


Fixed it for you.

[kobemagee29]

Going to be tough for the spurs to come out tonight after what happened in game 6. Heat will win tonight.

[hwc]

Even if they win this year, their run together won't last past next season. From an SI article by Ian Thomsen...

Whether you love or hate the Miami Heat, you ought to appreciate their runs at the championship over the next two seasons. Because owner Micky Arison may not be able to afford his team by 2014-15.

In that season the "repeater" tax will kick in, bringing with it the most gruesome financial penalties for high-payroll teams that the league has ever seen. The repeater tax threatens to change the way business is done in the NBA, and its first major victim could be the reigning champion Heat.

As its payroll stands today, Miami is committed to seven players in 2014-15 at a total cost of $78.4 million. The bulk of that guaranteed money is scheduled to go to LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, who will be paid $61.4 million altogether that season.

Here's what it means: If their ambitions remain high and they're able to keep costs as low as possible, then the Heat will be responsible for a payroll totaling $93.3 million -- and that's before the brutal impact of the repeater tax kicks in.

At the conclusion of 2014-15, the repeater tax will make its dreaded debut by punishing teams that have paid a luxury tax for four consecutive seasons. Miami is on a path to be hit with an enormous penalty in the summer of 2015.

As a repeat taxpayer, the Heat will be facing the highest incremental tax rates in NBA history. If, for example, the luxury-tax threshold is established at $75 million -- a highly optimistic gain of roughly $5 million from this season -- the Heat could be faced with a tax bill approaching $48 million. In total, they would be paying $141.3 million for 12 players.

Read More: Upcoming NBA tax threatens dynasty in South Beach - Ian Thomsen - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/12/06/sixth-man-nba-cba-nicolas-batum/index.html#ixzz2Wlz8Q7ne)

And that's if the big three chose to extend their stay. All three have the ability to cancel their contracts after next year.

I don't know about you, but no matter how rich you are, no one wants to pay $48 million in taxes.

[dasiegel]

See my sig.
haha, me too!

Wade is breaking down... bosh is bosh... i think regardless the break down is coming either way.
this sounds like the people who have been saying the spurs are old since 06-07 and every year they are right in the thick of things. wade will be fine after resting off season, bosh was great esp at the end of game 6 defensively and to everyone who said they are gonna break up and that the financial situation is gonna stifle them, why? they keep that core they can put almost anyone around them. there are always young players and sharpshooters for cheap. i think they all have 2 more years until this dal is up anyway... and if they do win 4 in a row, expect them to do whatever it takes to stay together.

When the Heat win tonight, it will be rad.


Fixed it for you.

uchhhhhhhh:/

Going to be tough for the spurs to come out tonight after what happened in game 6. Heat will win tonight.

I know... ... ... I know:(

[dasiegel]

Even if they win this year, their run together won't last past next season. From an SI article by Ian Thomsen...



And that's if the big three chose to extend their stay. All three have the ability to cancel their contracts after next year.

Again trust me, if they wantr to stay together, they will stay together and winning make sit more likely. Can you imagine if they have the chance to have a Celtics of the 60s type of run, you think they would leave? Leave sunny Miami, with the nightlife and the weather and the winning? They are loaded, they ain't goin anywhere if they keep winning. They can split when they lose and still have several years of solid NBA ball left, this team will stay together until they lose. Money will be worked out.

[Gcervantes2]

Heat are winning tonight. What happened on tuesday happened for a reason, just saying..

[knicks_please]

Will be an epic game again I have a feeling.

Please win spurs. Please.

[knicks_please]

Again trust me, if they wantr to stay together, they will stay together and winning make sit more likely. Can you imagine if they have the chance to have a Celtics of the 60s type of run, you think they would leave? Leave sunny Miami, with the nightlife and the weather and the winning? They are loaded, they ain't goin anywhere if they keep winning. They can split when they lose and still have several years of solid NBA ball left, this team will stay together until they lose. Money will be worked out.

Now you just sound like a dilusional heat fan lol.

Celtics of the 60s type run? This loaded team has at least half of its key players on the decline. Will ray Allen, battier, miller, be there in 3 years? Will wade get new knees? Will Chris bosh start getting better instead of worse?

Sorry Lebron is the best player in the world but the team has holes.

[hwc]

Will be an epic game again I have a feeling.

Please win spurs. Please.

I hope it will be an epic finale but I'm expecting a dud.

On a side note, too many people are saying that game 6 was the best game they have ever seen in the playoffs. Really?!? I seem to remember the series of Chicago vs Boston back in 2008/09 when it was Rose vs Rondo in that game that went into triple overtime. That was probably the best game that I have seen.

[Jef]

Now you just sound like a dilusional heat fan lol.

Celtics of the 60s type run? This loaded team has at least half of its key players on the decline. Will ray Allen, battier, miller, be there in 3 years? Will wade get new knees? Will Chris bosh start getting better instead of worse?

Sorry Lebron is the best player in the world but the team has holes.

i agree with this.

the Heat have been the best team this year and i expect them to win tonight. that would give them 2 titles obviously during this big 3 era.

i think theyd be thrilled to end up with another. i say maybe they win next year, but that is their window. Lebron can do anything even as a virtual one man team, but they need to reload or they might not even win another one after this year (assuming they do).

Sure "core pieces" going forward and for forseeable future: Lebron, Chalmers, MAYBE Norris Cole. Then you have guys like Birdman and Joel Anthony who they might keep around for a bit.

After that, where is the improvement being made? Wade, Battier, Allen, etc? All are either old or breaking down at an alarming rate.

Bosh, while he has his flaws, has been made into such a scapegoat at times that it is tough to see him sticking around.

In my mind, they SHOULD trade Wade and build around Lebron and Bosh. Lebron and Wade's playmaking ability can become redundant, and Wade is nearly done anyway.

But they likely will trade Bosh instead, and that will start the downfall unless a stupid team (i.e. Bobcats) trades way too much for a washed up D-Whistle.

[benz35]

OKC with a healthy westbrook and a much better coach s/b good...

[Nsingerma11]

I disagree with most of what you said.

[Gcervantes2]

Wade is top 5 in the NBA right now.

Why would the Heat trade him? or Bosh. These players opted out to less money just to win championships. What makes you think they wont do it again. I honestly dont see any big players getting traded any time soon. Maybe just Ray Allen retiring, which i doubt because aside from last game , hes had a pretty solid year and his body is built like if he was in his early 30s

[The Fluffy]

The spurs need to take out Manu because after what he did in game 6....that's just a big no no plus he had eight turnovers which really isn't good.

[groundsupport]

Wade is top 5 in the NBA right now.
Why would the Heat trade him? or Bosh. These players opted out to less money just to win championships. What makes you think they wont do it again. I honestly dont see any big players getting traded any time soon. Maybe just Ray Allen retiring, which i doubt because aside from last game , hes had a pretty solid year and his body is built like if he was in his early 30s

Says who????????

[lukeouh]

Wade is top 5 in the NBA right now.

Why would the Heat trade him? or Bosh. These players opted out to less money just to win championships. What makes you think they wont do it again. I honestly dont see any big players getting traded any time soon. Maybe just Ray Allen retiring, which i doubt because aside from last game , hes had a pretty solid year and his body is built like if he was in his early 30s

So wade is in the same cataegory as: 1. LeBron 2. Durant 3. Kobe 4. Melo 5. CP3? Who is he better than out of those players?

[IamRalpho]

This isnt 2007, Wade is NOT top 5 anywhere.

I didnt even have to read the rest

[EMD34]

Don't feel too bad. Harden, Dwight, and the Rockets will beat them next year. :flex:

[IamRalpho]

Heat have a window of one more year, but if they finish with 2-3 titles, it worked right?

Who knows what will happen but Lebron isnt going to take a discount just to ride with an older/breaking down Wade and a 3rd wheel in Bosh.

[Gcervantes2]

So wade is in the same cataegory as: 1. LeBron 2. Durant 3. Kobe 4. Melo 5. CP3? Who is he better than out of those players?

4 & 5 have rings? They are in the finals?

Melo's playoff record is really good let me tell you....They were both drafted in the same year. 2 beats 0.

Cp3 is awesome i love the dude but he is no dwade. and both play different positions.

It's really hard to be yourself playing with LeBron, have you not seen what Dwade does when he actually drives and takes shots as oppose to dishing out to Lebron.

[lukeouh]

4 & 5 have rings? They are in the finals?

Melo's playoff record is really good let me tell you....They were both drafted in the same year. 2 beats 0.

Cp3 is awesome i love the dude but he is no dwade. and both play different positions.

It's really hard to be yourself playing with LeBron, have you not seen what Dwade does when he actually drives and takes shots as oppose to dishing out to Lebron.

Wade was a top 5 player in his prime. Not now day

[Qwasian]

Wade is top 5 in the NBA right now.

have you seen wade play lately?

[Qwasian]

4 & 5 have rings? They are in the finals?

Melo's playoff record is really good let me tell you....They were both drafted in the same year. 2 beats 0.

Cp3 is awesome i love the dude but he is no dwade. and both play different positions.

It's really hard to be yourself playing with LeBron, have you not seen what Dwade does when he actually drives and takes shots as oppose to dishing out to Lebron.


wow? u think wade is better than melo & cp3? is it april fools day? NOT EVEN CLOSE.

[Vintage Collector]

I hope the heat win tonight and another 3. 5 in a row should give a hefty bump to all my lebron, wade and bosh rookies. Not to mention the sealed 2003-04 boxes.

Go Heat. (unless they are playing the Nets)

[GC1980]

The problem is Miami winning will be a success for the super team model. All these spoiled brat superstars will continue to push their way to stacked teams in order to win because that method will be validated by a Heat win. You can already see it by the reports of Paul and Howard wanting to join forces.

I know the beef is old but you can't deny it, the "Big 3" took the easy way out. Bosh has always been second tier at best so I don't blame him. Its the other 2 that had no business colluding to join forces. Yes, there have been other big 3's before but never have the players been the driving force to make that happen. MJ and Pip, Magic and Worthy, Bird and Mchale, all drafted to the same team. Even the Celts were formed through front office moves and trades.

Miami winning just perpetuates the super team and hero ball trends. A spurs win shows team ball can win out. Please win Spurs...sadly I don't see it happening.

[jr24ai3]

I want the Spurs to win. But if the Heat win, I want Lebron to hit a game winner in the final seconds to prove me and all of my fellow Lebron haters wrong about him not being clutch in the final seconds.

I can only speak for myself. But that's where some of the hate comes from. He is the best in the game, just not in the final seconds. Deep down I want to see him become the type that is clutch at the end of the game, not just dominant for the first 44 minutes. I want to see it all from Lebron, because he can do it if he doesn't get in his own head.

[Jef]

agreed - i am rooting for san antonio but if miami wins i want it to be because of an epic lebron performance.

[Qwasian]

teams have been doing the superstar model forever....... the big 3 thing is not something new......

[dasiegel]

i agree with this.

the Heat have been the best team this year and i expect them to win tonight. that would give them 2 titles obviously during this big 3 era.

i think theyd be thrilled to end up with another. i say maybe they win next year, but that is their window. Lebron can do anything even as a virtual one man team, but they need to reload or they might not even win another one after this year (assuming they do).

Sure "core pieces" going forward and for forseeable future: Lebron, Chalmers, MAYBE Norris Cole. Then you have guys like Birdman and Joel Anthony who they might keep around for a bit.

After that, where is the improvement being made? Wade, Battier, Allen, etc? All are either old or breaking down at an alarming rate.

Bosh, while he has his flaws, has been made into such a scapegoat at times that it is tough to see him sticking around.

In my mind, they SHOULD trade Wade and build around Lebron and Bosh. Lebron and Wade's playmaking ability can become redundant, and Wade is nearly done anyway.

But they likely will trade Bosh instead, and that will start the downfall unless a stupid team (i.e. Bobcats) trades way too much for a washed up D-Whistle.

That's insane, you are basically saying that Heat should trade a top NBA player in Wade bc he's on his way down and that Bosh will be so mentally weak he will leave. Wade still has several great years left and Bosh could be most teams best player if he didn't have to dumb down his role for Wade and Lebron.

Lebron is the scapegoat, when they lose its all about what he didn't do. He was too unselfish! He forced too many jumpers up! He didn't get enough role players involved! Where was the rebounding?!

People always say the older guys are done too early. I am a big fan of vets. The Pierce, Allen, Garnett big 3 was older than this one and they had a good run. The older 2nd 3 peat bulls Bulls group had a good run. This group is younger and there is no reason for them to go anywhere.

Riley isn't gonna trade Bosh, he's the only scoring big man they have. Wade is a fan favorite and has been tough this finals. He's banged up but so are a lot of guys. He'll heal! And for all the Mike Millers that will be finished soon, they'll pick up new cheap guys that can knock down 3s or draft young guys who can contribute, they aren't gonna stand still and just hope this group lasts, they have a good front office.

Look, I know I sound like a Heat jocker but its my fear, not what I want! I see no reason other than people making up trades or dumb Sh!t abt him going back to Cleveland, and worrying about money which will clearly just be worked out if it means titles, that the Heat won't stay together and run things for not just next year but at least 1 or 2 after until another team makes a real move to take over. Which can be done btw! OKC makes big move, Houston makes a big move, LAK or LAC makes a big move, Indiana, makes a big move, Cleveland makes a big move (won't happen but imagine Irving, Howard, Waiters, Thompson and Zeller, not so bad), NYK, Brooklyn etc.

The Spurs can stop all this though. But trust me when i tell you... just trust me. I will bump this thread wayyyy down the road, I guarantee the Heat win at LEAST 1 more title if they win this year and most likely more than 1, so start hoping the Spurs bring it!

[Jef]

The bosh trade rumors have been In full swing for a while now. I am not saying I think they should trade bosh, I am saying it may happen.

He is always viewed as the weakest of the big 3, but With Wade and James they have an OR situation. Who takes the reigns in a given set: Wade or James? They are becoming more and more redundant.

Bosh gives them the far more valuable AND, but if a trade takes place they won't dare "insult" Wade like that. Bosh would likely be the guy to go even though he is a far better fit at this point than Wade. When you have Lebron, you obviously build around him no matter who you have. Wade at this point is a borderline Top 10 player and he has at least declined to the point where you often need to sacrifice Lebrons talents on a given play to highlight Wade. Wade still shows top 5 flashes on some takes to the basket, but no longer does he have a dynamic skill that lebron lacks.

If I am pat Riley I am scared to death to trade the most successful player in franchise history, but I ultimately trade Wade for youth and possibly even multiple high quality parts.

Id absolutely trade Wade for Cousins and a high draft pick if I could. They can't afford to waste a single season in lebrons prime, and a trade like that would allow more sustained success than would another season of wade throwing up trash and screaming at the officials while everyone crosses his fingers that he can turn it up again and not get destroyed by guys like Westbrook ( who wade once guarded but now is handled by lebron while durant is relatively free) once the playoffs and finals come around. ^*

^i know wade turned it on some after all star break, but
He clearly is not the same player he was even last year

*pardon any weird typing or capitalization - tough on a phone

[justdagoodstuff]

OP, I have a feeling by midnight tonight you will be sad, but, that's just the feeling I get.

[dasiegel]

The problem is Miami winning will be a success for the super team model. All these spoiled brat superstars will continue to push their way to stacked teams in order to win because that method will be validated by a Heat win. You can already see it by the reports of Paul and Howard wanting to join forces.

I know the beef is old but you can't deny it, the "Big 3" took the easy way out. Bosh has always been second tier at best so I don't blame him. Its the other 2 that had no business colluding to join forces. Yes, there have been other big 3's before but never have the players been the driving force to make that happen. MJ and Pip, Magic and Worthy, Bird and Mchale, all drafted to the same team. Even the Celts were formed through front office moves and trades.

Miami winning just perpetuates the super team and hero ball trends. A spurs win shows team ball can win out. Please win Spurs...sadly I don't see it happening.

This is why people hate the Heat. Becasue it's BS the way they formed. The Cletics made trades to make their big 3 happen and gave up decent pieces like Al jefferson and top 5 picks even tho they got the better of the trade and a title. All other cores top teams were drafted and struggled until they broke through.

I want the Spurs to win. But if the Heat win, I want Lebron to hit a game winner in the final seconds to prove me and all of my fellow Lebron haters wrong about him not being clutch in the final seconds.

I can only speak for myself. But that's where some of the hate comes from. He is the best in the game, just not in the final seconds. Deep down I want to see him become the type that is clutch at the end of the game, not just dominant for the first 44 minutes. I want to see it all from Lebron, because he can do it if he doesn't get in his own head.

I think the debate about him being clutch ended. If it didn't its being debated by fools. He had one of the best playoffs ever last year, he just hit a HUGE 3 last game, he has his title. It's time to leave the guy alone about that. He gets a little bit deferential at times but he believes the best shot should be taken and I can't blame him for that if he trusts his guys.

teams have been doing the superstar model forever....... the big 3 thing is not something new......

They formed way differently. name one championship team that formed by 2 top 20 players going to the same team in the offseason. Esp when 1 is the #1 or #2 player in the league at the time.

The bosh trade rumors have been In full swing for a while now. I am not saying I think they should trade bosh, I am saying it may happen.

He is always viewed as the weakest of the big 3, but With Wade and James they have an OR situation. Who takes the reigns in a given set: Wade or James? They are becoming more and more redundant.

Bosh gives them the far more valuable AND, but if a trade takes place they won't dare "insult" Wade like that. Bosh would likely be the guy to go even though he is a far better fit at this point than Wade. When you have Lebron, you obviously build around him no matter who you have. Wade at this point is a borderline Top 10 player and he has at least declined to the point where you often need to sacrifice Lebrons talents on a given play to highlight Wade. Wade still shows top 5 flashes on some takes to the basket, but no longer does he have a dynamic skill that lebron lacks.

If I am pat Riley I am scared to death to trade the most successful player in franchise history, but I ultimately trade Wade for youth and possibly even multiple high quality parts.

Id absolutely trade Wade for Cousins and a high draft pick if I could. They can't afford to waste a single season in lebrons prime, and a trade like that would allow more sustained success than would another season of wade throwing up trash and screaming at the officials while everyone crosses his fingers that he can turn it up again and not get destroyed by guys like Westbrook ( who wade once guarded but now is handled by lebron while durant is relatively free) once the playoffs and finals come around. ^*

^i know wade turned it on some after all star break, but
He clearly is not the same player he was even last year

*pardon any weird typing or capitalization - tough on a phone

I'm not saying trading Wade would be a bad move, it's just not gonna happen as long as they are winning titles. It would probably be better to have like Lebron, Bosh and Marc Gasol and get a few draft picks or CP3 Lebron and Bosh or w/e guy would be a star PG or star C but again, won't happen if they are the best team, they will just adjust the role players and more and more people will take less $ to come to sunny Miami and experience winning a title.

[bigboytoys]

Danny Crawford is officiating :)

Sad to say but congrats Heat

[Hallco]

Danny Crawford is officiating :)

Sad to say but congrats Heat

Maybe he likes the Spurs better than the Mavs? :D

[jr24ai3]

I think the debate about him being clutch ended. If it didn't its being debated by fools. He had one of the best playoffs ever last year, he just hit a HUGE 3 last game, he has his title. It's time to leave the guy alone about that. He gets a little bit deferential at times but he believes the best shot should be taken and I can't blame him for that if he trusts his guys.



It definitely hasn't ended. He was great the first 8 minutes of the 4th to get them back into it. But he was 2-7 with 5 turnovers in the final 4 minutes and OT. Maybe he was tired from the big comeback and didn't have anything left in the tank. But he looked like a completely different player in the final 4 minutes than he did in the first 8 of the 4th quarter, losing focus and looking rushed, not in control like he was earlier in the quarter.

I noticed the difference in his play, and finally even a few guys on ESPN finally acknowledged it today (Max Kellerman, and finally Wilbon and Kornheiser talked about it).

I said it earlier, I prefer for the Spurs to win. But if the Heat win, I want LeBron to hit a clutch shot when his team is tied or trailing in the final seconds.

[addicted36]

Prepare to be sad, Heat will win. Last time road team won Game 7, 1978 Bullets. Heat win easy

[dasiegel]

It definitely hasn't ended. He was great the first 8 minutes of the 4th to get them back into it. But he was 2-7 with 5 turnovers in the final 4 minutes and OT. Maybe he was tired from the big comeback and didn't have anything left in the tank. But he looked like a completely different player in the final 4 minutes than he did in the first 8 of the 4th quarter, losing focus and looking rushed, not in control like he was earlier in the quarter.

I noticed the difference in his play, and finally even a few guys on ESPN finally acknowledged it today (Max Kellerman, and finally Wilbon and Kornheiser talked about it).

I said it earlier, I prefer for the Spurs to win. But if the Heat win, I want LeBron to hit a clutch shot when his team is tied or trailing in the final seconds.

So you are basically calling the first 8 minutes in an elimination game that looked out of hand not clutch play? That's the problem with the Lebron analysis, it's unfair. I never met Lebron, but I HATE him as a player and HATE the Heat. But he is clutch at this point. In his Cleveland days, I was the first on board with that unclutch sentiment, but that's long gone, he has now hit game winners, has a ring after destroying last year's opponents, led major comebacks and done so as the best player in the league for 2 seasons. It's over.

Just cause it gets discussed by some goons on TV doesn't mean it's a legti argument. He hit the 2nd most clutch shot in the game with under 20 seconds left, he was clutch. He's not perfect, he'll have some TOs, I'm sure he was tired, I'm sure he made mistakes but he was clutch when it mattered. 4th quarter, elimination game, NBA finals. You don't have to do what ray allen did to be clutch.

Argument is over, he's clutch, lol. Sorry to everyone who disagrees but the only reason anyone wouldn't think so at this point in his career is because they are hating on him just like i hated on Jordan (have you figured out i'm a Knicks fan yet). They raise the expectations so high with him that he can't be clutch so the standard will always outweigh the playing ability. In order for him to be considered clutch to some people he has to hit a game winner with 3 guys in his face blindfolded. He has done everything else but that. He did hit game winners in this very playoffs btw.

Ok i'm done sticking up for this idiot. He can sick my duck, but he has been clutch now for 2 years.

[dasiegel]

Prepare to be sad, Heat will win. Last time road team won Game 7, 1978 Bullets. Heat win easy

the win but not easy, this isn't anyone, this is a veteran spurs team that is hungry for 1 more.

[jr24ai3]

So you are basically calling the first 8 minutes in an elimination game that looked out of hand not clutch play? That's the problem with the Lebron analysis, it's unfair. I never met Lebron, but I HATE him as a player and HATE the Heat. But he is clutch at this point. In his Cleveland days, I was the first on board with that unclutch sentiment, but that's long gone, he has now hit game winners, had a ring, led major comebacks and done so as the best player in the league for 2 seasons. It's over. Just cause it gets discussed doesn't mean it's right. He hit the 2nd most clutch shot in the game with under 20 seconds left, he was clutch. He's not perfect. he'll have some TOs, I'm sure he was tired, I'm sure he made mistakes but he was clutch wehn it mattered. 4th quarter, elimination game, NBA finals. You don't have to do what ray allen did as the only way to be clutch. Argument is over, he's clutch, sorry to everyone who disagrees but the only reaosn anyone wouldn't think so is because they raise the expectations so high with him that in order for him to be considered clutch he has to hit a game winner with 3 guys in his face blindfolded. He has done everything else but that. He did hit game winners in this very playoffs btw.

Ok i'm done sticking up for this idiot. He can sick my duck, but he has been clutch now for 2 years.

Not saying he hasn't been clutch in the past or that it wasn't huge what he did in the first 8 minutes. But he has a long history of struggling late in the 4th when the games are tight.

Yes he had a great finals last year. But he also had 2 really bad finals in his 2 other appearances. Did last year show that he will be clutch from now on? Or was last year an anomaly?

From an ESPN article after game 4: James is shooting 4-for-15 from the field (27%), including 1-for-9 on 3-pointers (11%), in clutch time (final 5 minutes of a game when the point difference is 5 points or less) over the last three NBA Finals series.

Lebron is good enough to dominate a game so he doesn't have to worry about hitting a final shot. But if it comes down to that, I don't believe he will hit it. It's 1 thing to hit a game winner in game 2 of the 2nd round. In the Finals, that's a completely different animal.

[StraightCash]

If the Heat lose tonight, I wonder how many bandwagon Heat fans will become fans of another team next year.

[dasiegel]

Not saying he hasn't been clutch in the past or that it wasn't huge what he did in the first 8 minutes. But he has a long history of struggling late in the 4th when the games are tight.

Yes he had a great finals last year. But he also had 2 really bad finals in his 2 other appearances. Did last year show that he will be clutch from now on? Or was last year an anomaly?

From an ESPN article after game 4: James is shooting 4-for-15 from the field (27%), including 1-for-9 on 3-pointers (11%), in clutch time (final 5 minutes of a game when the point difference is 5 points or less) over the last three NBA Finals series.

Lebron is good enough to dominate a game so he doesn't have to worry about hitting a final shot. But if it comes down to that, I don't believe he will hit it. It's 1 thing to hit a game winner in game 2 of the 2nd round. In the Finals, that's a completely different animal.

it is different but how many players that you consider the best of all time (lets say top 50) have hit them? was wilt hitting game winners so often, or pippen, barkley, malone, ewing, robinson, hakeem, isiah, drexler, stockton, iverson, garnett, duncan. very few have the opportunity, i can think of bird, magic, jordan (this is all off the top of my head) but all those guys even if some of those aren't in your top 50) have hit game winners in their career, but not necessarily in an nba finals. some like hakeem, just played clutch and won 2 titles but never were in that position. others never won a title.

my point is think of what you are saying lebron needs to do to make rank as clutch? are you asking any of these other guys to have to do this in order to be great, or clutch?

he hit a huuuuge shot with 20.1 seconds left and that still isn't good enough for you or some other fans, lol. i hate to stick up for the guy bc i want him to choke tonight, but hitting a game winner in game 2 v indiana is clutch, that shot last night was clutch, all these triple doubles in huge playoff games are all part of being a clutch winning player.

[jr24ai3]

it is different but how many players that you consider the best of all time (lets say top 50) have hit them? was wilt hitting game winners so often, or pippen, barkley, malone, ewing, robinson, hakeem, isiah, drexler, stockton, iverson, garnett, duncan. very few have the opportunity, i can think of bird, magic, jordan (this is all off the top of my head) but all those guys even if some of those aren't in your top 50) have hit game winners in their career, but not necessarily in an nba finals. some like hakeem, just played clutch and won 2 titles but never were in that position. others never won a title.

my point is think of what you are saying lebron needs to do to make rank as clutch? are you asking any of these other guys to have to do this in order to be great, or clutch?

he hit a huuuuge shot with 20.1 seconds left and that still isn't good enough for you or some other fans, lol. i hate to stick up for the guy bc i want him to choke tonight, but hitting a game winner in game 2 v indiana is clutch, that shot last night was clutch, all these triple doubles in huge playoff games are all part of being a clutch winning player.

There is more to it than just a game winner in the Finals, which doesn't happen very often. It's more of stepping up and hitting big shots down the stretch, and not turning it over like he did and like Ginobili did. His scoring is down in the finals compared to the regular season. Most of the greats before him either kept their scoring the same or increased it in the finals. I think he has averaged 22ppg on around 43% shooting in his finals career. In those same years he averaged 27-28ppg on 52% shooting.

People can look at the final stats of game 6, see a triple double, and praise him all day long. But other than that 1 three, he wasn't performing well in the final minutes.

[dasiegel]

There is more to it than just a game winner in the Finals, which doesn't happen very often. It's more of stepping up and hitting big shots down the stretch, and not turning it over like he did and like Ginobili did. His scoring is down in the finals compared to the regular season. Most of the greats before him either kept their scoring the same or increased it in the finals. I think he has averaged 22ppg on around 43% shooting in his finals career. In those same years he averaged 27-28ppg on 52% shooting.

People can look at the final stats of game 6, see a triple double, and praise him all day long. But other than that 1 three, he wasn't performing well in the final minutes.

You might find it interesting, I can try to look it up and find it but ESPN did a thing on "clutch" play between Kobe and Lebron and Lebron's #s were higher than Kobe. I'd rather have Kobe take my game winner but that's just what the #s showed.

[jr24ai3]

You might find it interesting, I can try to look it up and find it but ESPN did a thing on "clutch" play between Kobe and Lebron and Lebron's #s were higher than Kobe. I'd rather have Kobe take my game winner but that's just what the #s showed.

All depends which stats you choose to run. Kobe has better stats in the final 30 seconds. Lebrons are better if you take it out to 2 minutes left or more.

But tonight, Lebron is playing great. If he finishes it off in style, I will give him all the credit in the world. If Miami has to win, I WANT to see him be clutch at the end of the 4th to win it.

[jr24ai3]

Clutch shot. Did it on the biggest stage. I can no longer say he isn't clutch. Don't forget this post when all the Lebron Lovers say "where are all the guys who said he wasn't clutch"....cuz i'm right here.

Also posted this in the main heat spurs thread.

[IronMonkey415]

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx102/IronMonkey415/rocketsoy0_zps07ed1132.gif (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/IronMonkey415/media/rocketsoy0_zps07ed1132.gif.html)

[drob50]

U sad bro?? lol

[dasiegel]

U sad bro?? lol

LOL, I was just gonna type it... I'm SAD:(

[drob50]

LOL, I was just gonna type it... I'm SAD:(

Me too bro! Me too! :)!

[sportzking]

Sad? yes. Still a Spurs fan? yes, and thats the most important thing.

[slugger22]

Still a Spurs fan and will always be one.

GO SPURS GO !!!

[alexcampos]

Still a Spurs fan and will always be one.

GO SPURS GO !!!
That's great man, despite all the criticisms of being "old" your team played amazing.

[drob50]

Sad? yes. Still a Spurs fan? yes, and thats the most important thing.

Still a Spurs fan and will always be one.

GO SPURS GO !!!

You damn right!

After this year, it means that we are shoe ins to win next year! It is the way it works with SA

04 loss to LA and that damned 0.4 shot - then win in 05

06 loss off a stupid Manu foul on dirk - then win in 07

13 loss in the worst possible way, including failing to hit clutch FTs on more than one occasion, failing to grab a rebound, then just holding on long enough to look like we had a chance to win G7, only to fall apart yet again! lol - then win in 14 lol

I think we deserve back to backs after this years pain!

[dasiegel]

At least your not a Knicks fan <===================:(

[Nyfancam01]

U sad bro?? lol

I know we have kind of had a small problem before but tried talking it out and I think we're going to be friends now..

this post was damn priceless. You sir, get it.

[drob50]

I know we have kind of had a small problem before but tried talking it out and I think we're going to be friends now..

this post was damn priceless. You sir, get it.

Problem?? Whatchu talkin bout?? It is called a 'rivalry'! :cool:

PS - No Iversons here mate! :(