Numbers never lie....

[Yanke3z11]

Don't hate me for posting, just thought I'd share :)!
Will LeBron Surpass Jordan? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJyRLJV7vQM&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

[alexcampos]

How many Heat threads are we going to have?

Lol :D

[Gcervantes2]

Beat me to it. I think i will just link that video from now on instead of going back and forth with members "/

[Yanke3z11]

How many Heat threads are we going to have?

Lol :D

As many as it takes to silence the critics!? :confused: hahah

[SportsItUpCards]

They never do lie.... :)

We can only dream about the things Lebron will achieve in years to come!

[nissandriver77]

But Lebron Is not clutch

[hairyangryfella]

So if numbers never lie Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest NBA player in history.... :devil:

[GoJays]

Sig says it all.

[hairytrojan]

look at the players MJ played against in his career....now look at the players bron has played against and will play against in the upcoming years....def not gonna be talking about these players how we talk about the ones MJ played against...was a whole different level of competition....A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME then and now....im prob a lil bias being born and raised in Chicago watching MJ growing up so MJ will always be the greatest in my eyes :D

[bootan]

Age?? Thats how it will be judged??? Dont think so.

Try coming up with stats after 10 seasons in the NBA. Now thats a fair comparison.

You kids have no idea.

[UltimateDeron]

Age?? Thats how it will be judged??? Dont think so.

Try coming up with stats after 10 seasons in the NBA. Now thats a fair comparison.

You kids have no idea.

This right here folks.

[peytonmanning18]

But Lebron Is not clutch

Tell me more about this.

[crackberry]

longevity is the key here. if lebron can continue to do this until he retires then yes the numbers won't lie

but to extrapolate and say lebron will be greater than MJ right now is stupid

MJ retired (from bulls) at a time where he could still be the best player in the league the next season. also MJ had a team of key guys in their primes at the same time as him - lebron has old guys will need replacement after next season

it is a good topic of conversation though

[Craig]

I respect what Lebron has accomplished, but these types of commentary are nothing but speculation.

It's the same talk we heard several years about ARod becoming the home run king, or about Tiger surpassing Jack Nicholson. So much can go wrong, from injuries to personal issues to the lack of a supporting cast.

Careers are always judged best once they're done. I wish more people would just enjoy Lebron's accomplishment in the moment, and save the legacy talk until he's done building on it.

[Nyfancam01]

Lebron is and will go down as the all time greatest EVER!
/story.

I am so happy that I am on THIS SIDE of the argument.


James is just too complete. He does EVERYTHING Very well!
10 years from now, this will be a very very fun topic.

[SportsItUpCards]

Lebron is and will go down as the all time greatest EVER!
/story.

I am so happy that I am on THIS SIDE of the argument.


James is just too complete. He does EVERYTHING Very well!

Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Cades]

lol "on pace".

On pace doesn't mean jack.

Someone who scores 50 points in 1 game is on pace to avg 50 points a game.

Someone who hits 2 HR in the first game of the season is on pace to hit 324 HR's.

[Cades]

I guess the article has one thing right, numbers don't lie, and Jordan's numbers are better than lebrons.

[kobemagee29]

Lebron is and will go down as the all time greatest EVER!
/story.

I am so happy that I am on THIS SIDE of the argument.


James is just too complete. He does EVERYTHING Very well!
10 years from now, this will be a very very fun topic.

Not...........

[IamRalpho]

Once I saw him mention all star games I stopped caring.

We get it, Lebron fans still think hes better than Jordan. Doesnt mean its true though.

[IamRalpho]

Lebron is and will go down as the all time greatest EVER!
/story.

I am so happy that I am on THIS SIDE of the argument.


James is just too complete. He does EVERYTHING Very well!
10 years from now, this will be a very very fun topic.

Even though you didnt really provide anything to either "side", just said /story

:confused::confused:

We get it, you love Lebron, but it doenst /story.

[jprk31]

Numbers don't lie but great players don't get fine for flopping.

[hychang5]

Lebron is and will go down as the all time greatest EVER!
/story.

I am so happy that I am on THIS SIDE of the argument.


James is just too complete. He does EVERYTHING Very well!
10 years from now, this will be a very very fun topic.

Wow, thanks. Hey, can I get next week's lotto numbers as well?

[Gcervantes2]

Numbers don't lie but great players don't get fine for flopping.

Couldnt have said this better myself............

SIKE!!! What the hell does getting fine for flopping have to do with being a great player or not, he was looking for an easy foul and he didn't get it. I swear everyone finds the smallest excuse to downsize LeBron's career. I guess we can say LeBron surpassed Kobe since all the new talk is about MJ vs. LeBron, so if you're a kobe fan i understand your hatred :)!

[kobemagee29]

What would all you lebron lovers be saying if the heat didn't get game 6 handed to them?

[Gcervantes2]

What would all you lebron lovers be saying if the heat didn't get game 6 handed to them?

SHHHH!! KOBE FAN!!

[tristan20]

What would all you lebron lovers be saying if the heat didn't get game 6 handed to them?

What would Kobe say if Shaq didn't hand him his first 3 rings?:D

[cdub6238]

Age?? Thats how it will be judged??? Dont think so.

Try coming up with stats after 10 seasons in the NBA. Now thats a fair comparison.

You kids have no idea.

This right here folks.

wait...what? :confused:

im pretty positive this was Lebron's 10th season in the NBA..no?

am i missing something?

[poppudaimadochi]

wait...what? :confused:

im pretty positive this was Lebron's 10th season in the NBA..no?

am i missing something?

The point is that MJ's 10th season is the 95-96 one, if one does not count his 2nd year (injured, played 18 games) and his comeback period in 94-95.

So after 10 full seasons, that's 4 titles, 4 MVP, 4 Finals MVP, 8 NBA First-Team, 1 NBA Second-Team, 1 Defensive Player of the Year, 7 All-Defensive First-Team, Rookie of the Year, 10 All-Star Team, 2 All-Star MVP, 2 Olympic Gold Medals.

All of this while taking TWO years off to try his hand at baseball because he was (partly) bored with the game of basketball, and facing arguably the toughest level of competition a decade has ever seen (Magic, Bird, Drexler, Malone-Stockton, Olajuwon, Barkley, Knicks, Pistons).

Also, look back at the Bulls' rosters during MJ's run of dominance. Compare with the Heat's roster of the past two years.

But to me, the main thing that will always separate MJ and LeBron, is that Jordan wanted to make it happen in Chicago, he was driven. LeBron chose the easy way out and joined forces with the 2 biggest stars free agency could offer that year (and don't forget Wade had already won a title "by himself" in '06), and that their first title together came on a strike-shortened season. That puts a lots of asterisks to his Miami accomplishments.


Edit: and Jordan has never quit on his team the way LeBron quit on the Cavs in that Boston series...

[CC_123]

How about comparing AFTER 10 NBA seasons NOT age? Thats a more even and fair comparison. So here we go, here are stats & awards (Regular Season and Playoffs) after 10 seasons for both players. (Not including that 94-95 season for Jordan that he only played 1/5th of)

Michael Jordan (INCLUDING his 2nd NBA season, which he only played 18 games)
Regular Season Games Played: 749
Points Per Game: 32.1
Rebounds Per Game: 6.4
Assists Per Game: 4.4
Steals Per Game: 2.7
Field Goal Percentage: 51% (8,995-17,497)
Wins: 517
Losses: 303
Team Winning Percentage: 63%

Playoff Appearances: 10 straight (1984-85 to 1995-96)
Playoffs Games Played: 129
Points Per Game: 34.1
Rebounds Per Game: 6.4
Assists Per Game: 6.3
Steals Per Game: 2.3
Field Goal Percentage: 50% (1,598-3225)
Wins: 84 (First round was best of 5)
Losses: 45
Team Winning Percentage: 65%

NBA MVPs: 4
Defensive POY: 1
NBA Scoring Titles: 7
9x All-Star
NBA Finals Record: 4-0
NBA Finals MVP: 4

LeBron James (Had shortened season in 2011-2012, only 66 games played)
Regular Season Games Played: 765
Points Per Game: 27.6
Rebounds Per Game: 7.3
Assists Per Game: 6.9
Steals Per Game: 1.7
Field Goal Percentage: 49% (7,559-15,411)
Wins: 519
Losses: 285
Team Winning Percentage: 65%

Playoff Appearances: 8 straight (2005-06 to 2012-13)
Playoffs Games Played: 138
Points Per Game: 28.1
Rebounds Per Game: 8.6
Assists Per Game: 6.7
Steals Per Game: 1.7
Field Goal Percentage: 47%
Wins: 88 (All series are 7 game series)
Losses: 49
Team Winning Percentage: 64%

NBA MVPs: 4
Defensive POY: 0
NBA Scoring Titles: 1
9x All-Star
NBA Finals Record: 2-2
NBA Finals MVP: 2
----------------------------------------------------------

A lot of the stats are very similar. Jordan played in a tougher NBA in my opinion though. Jordan is a much better defensive player and scorer. Jordan had a killer instinct in games, where LeBron lacks that. I'd take Jordan in the playoffs over LeBron 10/10 times. Personally, I still think MJ is the GOAT and I personally don't think LeBron will surpass him.

[tristan20]

The point is that MJ's 10th season is the 95-96 one, if one does not count his 2nd year (injured, played 18 games) and his comeback period in 94-95.

So after 10 full seasons, that's 4 titles, 4 MVP, 4 Finals MVP, 8 NBA First-Team, 1 NBA Second-Team, 1 Defensive Player of the Year, 7 All-Defensive First-Team, Rookie of the Year, 10 All-Star Team, 2 All-Star MVP, 2 Olympic Gold Medals.

All of this while taking TWO years off to try his hand at baseball because he was (partly) bored with the game of basketball, and facing arguably the toughest level of competition a decade has ever seen (Magic, Bird, Drexler, Malone-Stockton, Olajuwon, Barkley, Knicks, Pistons).

Also, look back at the Bulls' rosters during MJ's run of dominance. Compare with the Heat's roster of the past two years.

But to me, the main thing that will always separate MJ and LeBron, is that Jordan wanted to make it happen in Chicago, he was driven. LeBron chose the easy way out and joined forces with the 2 biggest stars free agency could offer that year (and don't forget Wade had already won a title "by himself" in '06), and that their first title together came on a strike-shortened season. That puts a lots of asterisks to his Miami accomplishments.


Edit: and Jordan has never quit on his team the way LeBron quit on the Cavs in that Boston series...


Jordan never quit on his team? You said it, he left them to play baseball! Its not like he was injured.
Thats called quitting on your team.

But Pippen still carried the team! 55 WINS without Jordan!

Scottie Pippen had a tremendous season in all facets of the game. The leading vote-getter for both the All-NBA First Team and the NBA All-Defensive First Team, he ranked eighth in the league in scoring (22.0 ppg), 23rd in rebounding (8.7 rpg), 19th in assists (5.6 apg), and second in steals (2.93 per game). Pippen also won MVP honors at the 1994 NBA All-Star Game, in which he was joined for the first time by teammates Horace Grant and B. J. Armstrong.

Its amazing you automatically gave Jordan his rings for the time he missed. LOL

[poppudaimadochi]

Jordan never quit on his team? You said it, he left them to play baseball! Its not like he was injured.
Thats called quitting on your team.

Laughable argument; that's called retiring. Don't forget the circumstances either. But let me rephrase this so you can get my point: when in a game, Jordan would have never produced that ghost of a game LeBron had. Better?

Another example? Jordan would have shredded Boris Diaw; LeBron was a shell of himself when Diaw guarded him.


But Pippen still carried the team! 55 WINS without Jordan!

Scottie Pippen had a tremendous season in all facets of the game. The leading vote-getter for both the All-NBA First Team and the NBA All-Defensive First Team, he ranked eighth in the league in scoring (22.0 ppg), 23rd in rebounding (8.7 rpg), 19th in assists (5.6 apg), and second in steals (2.93 per game). Pippen also won MVP honors at the 1994 NBA All-Star Game, in which he was joined for the first time by teammates Horace Grant and B. J. Armstrong.

Wanna talk how Wade won a title on his own and how Bosh and (to an extent) Allen were the leaders of their own teams? And please compare those names with Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong, that'll only further the point.

Edit: and nice copy/paste by the way, hopefully from one of your own posts: http://forums.hoopshype.com/forums/index.php?topic=29446.0;wap2

Its amazing you automatically gave Jordan his rings for the time he missed. LOL

What? What rings? That made no sense; 1991-93 and 95-96, that's 4 rings in his first 10 full seasons.

[tristan20]

APPRECIATE GREATNESS!

Players like Lebron don't come around often. Comparing what he has done vs what Jordan has done is stupid. Wait until he retires.

Jordan nut huggers are as scared as Jordan is knowing that Lebron is the closest current player capable of becoming the GOAT.

He still has a long way to go, but stop hating on the dude. If Jordan is MILES away, then his legacy needs no defending.

[JosieD]

I just always wonder: did people hate on Jordan this much during his time and who did they always compare him to? I loved watching Jordan play but was only a kid than so I was oblivious to all of this. Grown men and sports. Your need to argue over something that really is no comparrasion is outstanding. They are both amazing players in their own right.

[Nyfancam01]

What would Kobe say if Shaq didn't hand him his first 3 rings?:D

Refs too... Anybody see how brutally the kings were screwed??? They DOMINATED the lakers and were cheated

[IamRalpho]

Refs too... Anybody see how brutally the kings were screwed??? They DOMINATED the lakers and were cheated

.....one year. What about the other Lakers titles?

I feel dirty defending the Lakers :/

[crackberry]

I just always wonder: did people hate on Jordan this much during his time and who did they always compare him to? I loved watching Jordan play but was only a kid than so I was oblivious to all of this. Grown men and sports. Your need to argue over something that really is no comparrasion is outstanding. They are both amazing players in their own right.

Yes. Even more so. He was compared to dr j. But mainly got criticised for not winning in playoffs and in that respect got compared to bird and magic

[foolioami]

APPRECIATE GREATNESS!If Jordan is MILES away, then his legacy needs no defending.

truest statement in the thread. not even worth arguing. just too bad the kids are growing up actually believing lebron>mj.

[UltimateDeron]

Jordan never quit on his team? You said it, he left them to play baseball! Its not like he was injured.
Thats called quitting on your team.

Wow... Really Tristan? Because MJ would quit on the Bulls after 3 consecutive titles. He quit because his dad was murdered. Unbelievable that you, a Jordan fan, would go there.

[IamRalpho]

Wow... Really Tristan? Because MJ would quit on the Bulls after 3 consecutive titles. He quit because his dad was murdered. Unbelievable that you, a Jordan fan, would go there.

Or because David Stern told him to leave.

Conspiracy theories!

[lukeouh]

Jordan is better. I don't think this would be a discussion had he not gone and played bball

[tristan20]

Wow... Really Tristan? Because MJ would quit on the Bulls after 3 consecutive titles. He quit because his dad was murdered. Unbelievable that you, a Jordan fan, would go there.

I am a Jordan fan, but I think every player should be judged by the end of their career. Its the only leveled playing field.

To say Lebron can't do this and can't do that is ridiculous. Unless your name is Nostradamus

Where are those idiots that said he would be ringless? Its dumb to hate on a guy 28 years old with as much accomplishments as Lebron has.

To be compared to the GOAT at age 28, speaks volumes. Is he the GOAT? No, but he has the chance to become. And that is what haters are afraid of.

[MariOnAlmA]

[B][B]Jordan never quit on his team? You said it, he left them to play baseball! Its not like he was injured.
Thats called quitting on your team.

But Pippen still carried the team! 55 WINS without Jordan!

Scottie Pippen had a tremendous season in all facets of the game. The leading vote-getter for both the All-NBA First Team and the NBA All-Defensive First Team, he ranked eighth in the league in scoring (22.0 ppg), 23rd in rebounding (8.7 rpg), 19th in assists (5.6 apg), and second in steals (2.93 per game). Pippen also won MVP honors at the 1994 NBA All-Star Game, in which he was joined for the first time by teammates Horace Grant and B. J. Armstrong.

Its amazing you automatically gave Jordan his rings for the time he missed. LOL

Jordan quit on no one. After his father was murdered (which apparently you forgot) MJ lost his longing to play basketball, and left the NBA to play the sport his father always dreamed his son would play. You should read more and stop making crazy allegations.

[Hegotgame15]

They never do lie.... :)

We can only dream about the things Lebron will achieve in years to come!

NUMBERS and STATS never lie???


How did you feel about Lebron's numbers and stats in game 6???

Not to bad were they???

ANYONE looking at the stats will say he played well, correct???


OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The numbers don't say , Lebron in the last 50 seconds of game 6 took 3 shots missed 2 and had 2 turnovers and he and he alone singlehandedly put his team in a position to lose a CHAMPIONSHIP....


The numbers don't show that Ray Allen hit the shot that saved the day after Lebron's 4 separate attempts and failures were the greatest choke in the history of the game....
not 1, not 2, not 3 ,but 4!!!




So you go on thinking that numbers don't lie.



I can't wait for your standard comeback...SMH....SMH....SMH:flex:


You will not once address the facts, you will ONLY LOOK AT THE OUTCOME.:)!

[UltimateDeron]

Numbers may never lie but in this case it makes ESPN look ridiculous...once again.

Continue selling your NBA coverage with Michael Jordan's name on it for views and ratings.

They did the same comparison's with Kobe after the 2010 NBA Finals.