Inside Innovation: Panini America Sneaks a Peek at 2012-13 Innovation Basketball

[blowoutcards]

Inside Innovation: Panini America Sneaks a Peek at 2012-13 Innovation Basketball (http://paniniamerica.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/inside-innovation-panini-america-sneaks-a-peek-at-2012-13-innovation-basketball/)
Aug 27th 2013, 21:10, by Tracy Hackler

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/innovation-main.jpg?w=600&h=610
Frankly speaking, it takes a certain amount of conviction — and a great deal of confidence — to name a product “Innovation.” So when the Panini America NBA Product Development team announced plans earlier this year to produce 2012-13 Innovation Basketball, it raised a few eyebrows. After all, there’s a certain expectation — and no small amount of added pressure — that tends to piggyback such a name.
Simply put, a product named “Innovation” better darn well deliver some. The good news: Judging by the early glimpse into 2012-13 Innovation Basketball that we got earlier today, the innovation is there — and it’s innovation that you can see, feel and, ultimately, appreciate.

In this collecting era of acetate renaissance, Innovation raises the bar with the unique Stained Glass insert that presents the NBA’s biggest stars and rookies in a whole new light. You can see exactly what we mean in the gallery that follows. In addition to sharing images of the cards in normal light, we also placed a few of them on the light table back in prepress to illustrate the full effect.
2012-13 Innovation Basketball also includes the aptly named Innovative Ink autograph insert that delivers a mesmerizing design against gold and silver paint-pen signatures. We preview a few of those in the gallery below, too.
Enjoy this sneak peek and stay tuned to The Knight’s Lance in the coming days for the complete Quality Control Gallery that profiles even more innovation to come when the product releases next Wednesday.
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Inside Innovation: Panini America Sneaks a Peek at 2012-13 Innovation Basketball | The Official Panini America Blog (http://paniniamerica.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/inside-innovation-panini-america-sneaks-a-peek-at-2012-13-innovation-basketball/)

[SPauthentic84]

The name Innovation is an oxymoron in this case

[Czeslaw1513]

The name Innovation is an oxymoron in this case

Hahaha, you're definitely right :D A Mix of UD Black and Topps Gallery :)!

[Earvin32]

None ofthe pictured autos go outside the box on the card. The players must have had a guide to keep their autos within a certain range. The gold pen looks kinda wide. Do they make a fine tip gold or silver marker? What was the reason for taking a pic of a pile of stained glass cards?

[jprk31]

This product looks like Gold standard combine with UD black. The good thing is the price is below $100. Anybody knows what the box breakdown?

[xavieronly1]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/Cloud107/UDBlackMichaelJordan.jpg

[thor_rider08]

Yup... They should have made the stained glass cards taste like candy so you could lick and collect them all.
That would be an INNOVATION. LOOKS LIKE DOG #@#@#@#@.

[Czeslaw1513]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/952/m525.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/m525.jpg/)


Similar scheme

[Orangejello727]

I like it. Looks good! I hope panini keeps up with releasing as many products as possible. That way it can clear out the disgruntled money mongers!

[bballcollector]

It looks real ugly to me.

[Randomcards]

What was the reason for taking a pic of a pile of stained glass cards?

So that you can see the cards are semi transparent



This is UD Black for sure.

[thepinoymamba]

I love the Gold and Autos on Black Background!
Looks really Nice
But
The glass Card Like The Topps Is really Offensive.
It Reminds me of Sacred Saints And Jesus. CHURCH should not be taken like this.
I love Panini And All everyone knows that but Topps Gallery and Panini Innovation
Is definitely a pass if they continue this glass Card.

[thor_rider08]

I love the Gold and Autos on Black Background!
Looks really Nice
But
The glass Card Like The Topps Is really Offensive.
It Reminds me of Sacred Saints And Jesus. CHURCH should not be taken like this.
I love Panini And All everyone knows that but Topps Gallery and Panini Innovation
Is definitely a pass if they continue this glass Card.

It is a stained glass card.. do not give it too much credit now.

[thepinoymamba]

It is a stained glass card.. do not give it too much credit now.

The Innovation Sign Is a Cross!

[hotbox]

The Innovation Sign Is a Cross!

It's a big "I" with the word "Innovation" written across it. :confused:

[NJNets24]

God I can't wait until UD goes under

[paul06901]

I love the Gold and Autos on Black Background!
Looks really Nice
But
The glass Card Like The Topps Is really Offensive.
It Reminds me of Sacred Saints And Jesus. CHURCH should not be taken like this.
I love Panini And All everyone knows that but Topps Gallery and Panini Innovation
Is definitely a pass if they continue this glass Card.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/37727518.jpg

[natbornkiller]

coming next year to a lcs near you (give or take a city)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c2k7r0EoYtM/TWhU8r30GKI/AAAAAAAABLY/EHGtN9ZMj6M/s400/panini.jpg
http://t1.ulule.me/vox/1401/5-golden-rules-successful-crowdfunding-1.gif

[MikeMamba]

Looks like a subliminal cross.

[CP3toOKC]

Im gonna assume kyrie's auto is a redemption

[kmedia1]

Terrible product. Looks like crap, especially the stained glass cards. Panini = No "Innovation"

[oldgoldy97]

I love the Gold and Autos on Black Background!
Looks really Nice
But
The glass Card Like The Topps Is really Offensive.
It Reminds me of Sacred Saints And Jesus. CHURCH should not be taken like this.
I love Panini And All everyone knows that but Topps Gallery and Panini Innovation
Is definitely a pass if they continue this glass Card.

If anyone wasn't sure about you in the past....

[Sikkcaden]

I love the Gold and Autos on Black Background!
Looks really Nice
But
The glass Card Like The Topps Is really Offensive.
It Reminds me of Sacred Saints And Jesus. CHURCH should not be taken like this.
I love Panini And All everyone knows that but Topps Gallery and Panini Innovation
Is definitely a pass if they continue this glass Card.

Im also offended. I get so worked up anytime I see a lower case t. ITS BASICALLY A CROSS! WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE THE SHINE AND GLORY AWAY FROM JESUS?!?!

UGHHHHH! I won't be buying this product, based on the exact same reasons as you. Stained glass is purely a religious thing and isn't used anywhere other than churches. I am for one extremely outraged.

Matter of fact, would you care to boycott Panini with me?

[bigcwd2000]

I think they meant to name this product Re-Innovation.

[PackAttack419]

So lemme get this straight... Many forum members, for irrational and illogical reasons, always seem to bash thepinoymamba whenever he has something positive to say about panini and their products. I am consistently baffled as to why people in the same hobby won't let him enjoy it. From what I can tell, he has never gotten into any arguments or any bad transactions with anyone. Anyway, now that he actually points out one thing that he doesn't like about this Innovation product, you guys mock him... again?


WHY?!?!?!

Does it matter what it is that he likes or doesn't like about the hobby? How does it affect you?!

[Sikkcaden]

So lemme get this straight... Many forum members, for irrational and illogical reasons, always seem to bash thepinoymamba whenever he has something positive to say about panini and their products. I am consistently baffled as to why people in the same hobby won't let him enjoy it. From what I can tell, he has never gotten into any arguments or any bad transactions with anyone. Anyway, now that he actually points out one thing that he doesn't like about this Innovation product, you guys mock him... again?


WHY?!?!?!

Does it matter what it is that he likes or doesn't like about the hobby? How does it affect you?!

You tell 'em! Buncha bullies!

[Yaga]

Lol I don't care if they're religious or not... those stained glass cards are freaking ugly.

[Randomcards]

So lemme get this straight... Many forum members, for irrational and illogical reasons, always seem to bash thepinoymamba whenever he has something positive to say about panini and their products. I am consistently baffled as to why people in the same hobby won't let him enjoy it. From what I can tell, he has never gotten into any arguments or any bad transactions with anyone. Anyway, now that he actually points out one thing that he doesn't like about this Innovation product, you guys mock him... again?


WHY?!?!?!

Does it matter what it is that he likes or doesn't like about the hobby? How does it affect you?!

I'm going to chime in as well and say I think he has a point. Dude is entitled to feel however he feels, and you could make an argument about the cross thing. No way this is pure coincidence. IMO

I was actually SHOCKED to hear the bad comments lol


Looks like a subliminal cross.
It's close enough.

[benz35]

Lol I don't care if they're religious or not... those stained glass cards are freaking ugly.

fugly... :flex::flex::flex: but some people like it..so to each his own.

[WilsonValdez]

"Inside Innovation Imitation : Panini America Sneaks a Peek at 2012-13 Innovation Imitation Basketball"

Fixed it, to reflect more honestly.

[lb_sa]

How blatant can you be in copying other designs... AND THEN NAME THE PRODUCT INNOVATION!

Laughable.

[Orangejello727]

Lots of UD fanboys busting a nut these days !!! lol

[Sikkcaden]

Lots of UD fanboys busting a nut these days !!! lol

What I dont understand is a lot of people LOVE the UD designs, but then Panini gives them what they want and they get upset.

Me thinks people just like to complain.

[oldgoldy97]

So lemme get this straight... Many forum members, for irrational and illogical reasons, always seem to bash thepinoymamba whenever he has something positive to say about panini and their products. I am consistently baffled as to why people in the same hobby won't let him enjoy it. From what I can tell, he has never gotten into any arguments or any bad transactions with anyone. Anyway, now that he actually points out one thing that he doesn't like about this Innovation product, you guys mock him... again?


WHY?!?!?!

Does it matter what it is that he likes or doesn't like about the hobby? How does it affect you?!

Do our comments not let him enjoy the hobby? Are forum members that influential? It is the ridiculous things he says that people make fun of, not his being pro or con Panini.

[lennox.p]

None ofthe pictured autos go outside the box on the card. The players must have had a guide to keep their autos within a certain range. The gold pen looks kinda wide. Do they make a fine tip gold or silver marker? What was the reason for taking a pic of a pile of stained glass cards?

because they are "oncard", signed after the card was made! :)!

[benz35]

What I dont understand is a lot of people LOVE the UD designs, but then Panini gives them what they want and they get upset.

Me thinks people just like to complain.


on NT - not much foil ..blah blah...

true that.. here comes immaculate collection - copied exquisite blah blah...

[lennox.p]

coming next year to a lcs near you (give or take a city)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c2k7r0EoYtM/TWhU8r30GKI/AAAAAAAABLY/EHGtN9ZMj6M/s400/panini.jpg
http://t1.ulule.me/vox/1401/5-golden-rules-successful-crowdfunding-1.gif


really!!!!!!!! 99,9999999% copy of the original. copy/paste, college pic = done!!!!!

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/attachments/basketball-box-breaks/106637d1349222141-fleer-retro-1-case-break-imag1184.jpg





at least panini use an old design as tamplate and do they own version of something that was made in the past that people liked.:)!

[MavsRChamps]

What I dont understand is a lot of people LOVE the UD designs, but then Panini gives them what they want and they get upset.

Me thinks people just like to complain.

I agree with this - How is it a bad thing that Panini copied previous designs that people liked? I would love it if they copied every single Upper Deck release :)!

Not even sure if it's possible to come up w/ a new original design anyway, there's only so many ways a card can look, right?

[SportsItUpCards]

I like it. Looks good! I hope panini keeps up with releasing as many products as possible. That way it can clear out the disgruntled money mongers!

EXACTLY!!! Times 1 Gazillion..... Bring back cards for actual collectors!

Btw, it looks great! Panini getting it done as usual.

[Quigley24]

They don't look bad. My main concern is them pricing it at twice what it's worth (as always).

[jj2]

Anyone who says this looks like garbage has little credibility in my opinion (or no eyes). To me those autos look a lot nicer and more high end than some of the stuff in NT (and looks just as nice as some of the UD Black stuff, which there are some similarities with).

[SportsItUpCards]

Lots of UD fanboys busting a nut these days !!! lol

This guy!..... Do you ever NOT speak the truth? :)!

They're afraid to death of Panini, and what their amazing releases mean to their precious "rare" and "loved by ALL"(smh) cards. Lol :D they just don't know how to let go, and just can't except that their patch cards are just like any other patch cards, and that Panini is making cards that put theirs to shame!... Hahaha smh just get over it already, and quiet looking at cards as investments and how much they're going to rise in price. Fact is, most cards always go down as many other releases come out, and much more pretty cards. Lol smh this is a HOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!! End/

[thepinoymamba]

This guy!..... Do you ever NOT speak the truth? :)!

They're afraid to death of Panini, and what their amazing releases mean to their precious "rare" and "loved by ALL"(smh) cards. Lol :D they just don't know how to let go, and just can't except that their patch cards are just like any other patch cards, and that Panini is making cards that put theirs to shame!... Hahaha smh just get over it already, and quiet looking at cards as investments and how much they're going to rise in price. Fact is, most cards always go down as many other releases come out, and much more pretty cards. Lol smh this is a HOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!! End/

Lol. So true. To many cry babies!
Those autos are actually way Better than UD Black.
UD is done. PANINI got complete control of the NBA and Hall Of Fame.
UD will soon be Beckett!!!
Still annoyed by the tainted glass card.
Enjoy and have fun!
God Bless!

[thekiddfan]

aint a UD Fanboy

but the comment that this is WAY better than UD black is ....um....smh

[thor_rider08]

Looks like an ok product..
It will be overpriced.
I like the ud black style autos and the fact they did them in gold and silver..
I don't have any UD black autos like that b/c they are not on card.. and I won't buy them.
I don't care for the stained glass cards or acetate cards but I don't like UD acetate cards.
The base look good. The patches look nice but like every other release.
More sticker dump cards.. A lame attempt at ball relic cards. More jsy card hits..
Looks like crusade.. prob 1500$ a 12 box case a ton of stores will be stuck with.

Agree UD is not coming back.
Panini has to pay for the LIC it has so it pushed a ton of products.
I get that.. I just wont buy this.. not until it hits 50$ a box.

As far as the stained glass.. its stained glass.. there is plenty of art with stained glass.. just b/c you associate it with Saints/God doesn't mean everyone does. I respect you don't like that fact.. Just pointing out I thought it was reaching.

[airball]

these cards looks much better than UD black ticket autographs, for example..

Are they really "on card"? Maybe the player sign first in the cardboard...

However, the glass cards looks terrible!!!

[gregnice37]

Wow, I getting so boring reading all the negativity lately.

I love these designs and could care less if they've been copied. You know why? Because I collect 1 guy and 1 guy only. He didn't start playing til 09-10. Which means he didn't have these type of cards when the original designs came out, so now I have the opportunity to own a cool design, whether it be original or copied, and its of the player I want too.

[hairyangryfella]

Yeah I don't think the word 'Innovation' is appropriate here...

Looks like 08-09 Ultimate base card with an autograph panel.
And the stained glass cards, I'm pretty sure they deliberately went for a 'subconscious' religious feel especially with the Innovation logo looking like a cross. Pretty weak IMO.

But I guess it's different from all their usual sticker autos so in that way it could be considered innovative...

Doubt there's a single card I'd want to own though.

[airball]

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-121.jpg

Complaints?

[CT2]

Now that's what I call "innovative"
Great work, Panini... NOT

[Sikkcaden]

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-121.jpg

Complaints?

Thats awesome.

[thepinoymamba]

Now this is cool. The date and what game was it used.
That is definitely Innovation!
15 box per case is it?
Well tainted glass sucks still.

[zebrastar]

Now this is cool. The date and what game was it used.
That is definitely Innovation!
15 box per case is it?
Well tainted glass sucks still.

No, it's not. Topps did this in a couple of their releases. And you can't really call it innovation when you're just giving people what you should have been giving them all along.

[NJNets24]

No, it's not. Topps did this in a couple of their releases. And you can't really call it innovation when you're just giving people what you should have been giving them all along.

Because UD gave collectors what they really wanted, though, right?

[zebrastar]

Because UD gave collectors what they really wanted, though, right?

I'm sorry, are we talking about UD or Panini's inability to innovate?

[thepinoymamba]

I'm sorry, are we talking about UD or Panini's inability to innovate?

You all know that the executives of Panini America Came from Topps and UD
So the influenced should be there.
Panini Is getting better and has delivered.
We can't procrastinate that even the UD Kids Have bought
Panini Products .

[Hoopsman]

Lol I don't care if they're religious or not... those stained glass cards are freaking ugly.

Anti-christ!:)!

[zebrastar]

You all know that the executives of Panini America Came from Topps and UD
So the influenced should be there.
Panini Is getting better and has delivered.
We can't procrastinate that even the UD Kids Have bought
Panini Products .

I suggest finding a new translator, yours can get pretty silly sometimes.
I was very critical of UD, and I still am, so I'm not a "fanboy" by any stretch, I haven't so much as purchased one unlicensed product by UD. I will give credit to Panini where credit is due, and I have in the past. However, I do not have a blind love for every Panini product, there is something fundamentally wrong with how they are handling their exclusive license, we do NOT need damn near 30 products a year from ONE company!

[thepinoymamba]

I suggest finding a new translator, yours can get pretty silly sometimes.
I was very critical of UD, and I still am, so I'm not a "fanboy" by any stretch, I haven't so much as purchased one unlicensed product by UD. I will give credit to Panini where credit is due, and I have in the past. However, I do not have a blind love for every Panini product, there is something fundamentally wrong with how they are handling their exclusive license, we do NOT need damn near 30 products a year from ONE company!

Sorry. I totally Agree 30 is way to much. Its hard to enjoy the product that just came out.where all of a sudden a new one is out there. I hope Panini will take into account
And Pick like 18-20 of the 30 that worked and then continue from that.
It will be better for us collectors and not to Panini capitalist market.
And I'm not saying your a UD Fan Kid
Just implying to many UD babies that can't let go of the fact
That UD is Done.

[hairyangryfella]

Sorry. I totally Agree 30 is way to much. Its hard to enjoy the product that just came out.where all of a sudden a new one is out there. I hope Panini will take into account
And Pick like 18-20 of the 30 that worked and then continue from that.
It will be better for us collectors and not to Panini capitalist market.
And I'm not saying your a UD Fan Kid
Just implying to many UD babies that can't let go of the fact
That UD is Done.

Why do you idiots refer to people like 'UD fanboy' and 'UD babies' just because they like UD cards better... (PRE-college uniforms...!)

Upper Deck as a company were pathetic. However they made some damn nice cards. Panini are also a pathetic company (albeit with slightly better customer service) yet they make far fewer cards that I would want in my collection.
Ooooh I'm such a fanboy.


BTW, do you reckon this is how they came up with this particular product?:

'Panini Head Honcho': Ok team, we need a concept for yet another basketball product we're putting out this season. What kind of things are popular worldwide?

'Panini exec 1': Puppies?

'Panini Head Honcho': Oooh nice, but can't really do that with a card. Next?

'Panini exec 4': Sports!

'Panini Head Honcho': Yeah no kidding, already doing that. Next?

'Panini exec 2': Food?

'Panini Head Honcho': That's absolutely something I'll put in the cabinet for later use, nice work. Anything else?

'Panini exec 3': Religion

'Panini Head Honcho': Brilliant! And we'll make the logo deliberately look like a cross, but it'll be so sneaky nobody will actually realize what we're doing. That's the one, team. Good work.

[bradical]

Was a buyer.

Now I am not.

[Orangejello727]

I suggest finding a new translator, yours can get pretty silly sometimes.
I was very critical of UD, and I still am, so I'm not a "fanboy" by any stretch, I haven't so much as purchased one unlicensed product by UD. I will give credit to Panini where credit is due, and I have in the past. However, I do not have a blind love for every Panini product, there is something fundamentally wrong with how they are handling their exclusive license, we do NOT need damn near 30 products a year from ONE company!

How is 30 products from one company infringing on your quality of choice, option to buy and overall impact on the hobby?

I dont see how the number of products released can be taken in a negative way. If there were only 2 or 3 releases we could easily be disgruntled over lack of choice. But now we're upset because there is too many choices?

[Orangejello727]

Why do you idiots refer to people like 'UD fanboy' and 'UD babies' just because they like UD cards better... (PRE-college uniforms...!)

Upper Deck as a company were pathetic. However they made some damn nice cards. Panini are also a pathetic company (albeit with slightly better customer service) yet they make far fewer cards that I would want in my collection.
Ooooh I'm such a fanboy.


BTW, do you reckon this is how they came up with this particular product?:

'Panini Head Honcho': Ok team, we need a concept for yet another basketball product we're putting out this season. What kind of things are popular worldwide?

'Panini exec 1': Puppies?

'Panini Head Honcho': Oooh nice, but can't really do that with a card. Next?

'Panini exec 4': Sports!

'Panini Head Honcho': Yeah no kidding, already doing that. Next?

'Panini exec 2': Food?

'Panini Head Honcho': That's absolutely something I'll put in the cabinet for later use, nice work. Anything else?

'Panini exec 3': Religion

'Panini Head Honcho': Brilliant! And we'll make the logo deliberately look like a cross, but it'll be so sneaky nobody will actually realize what we're doing. That's the one, team. Good work.


In order for UD to make those cards, they essentially had to scam, defraud and steal from other companies, players and lie to the public about authentication. It came at a cost. They essentially ruined the hobby, took away trust, made skeptics and then didnt pay up. Ignoring the deceitful ways UD went about their business and turning a blind eye to it, while supporting their product is being hypocritical.

I understand you like the cards and the design. I understand thats all you want to collect and talk about it. That fine. But how does it make sense to love a product that UD put out by putting down Panini? I dont understand. If I get 98% on a an exam while you get 56%, I dont prop myself to have dont better by putting down your 56% mark. Rather I focus on my 98% instead. Thats the frustrating part. Watching day in and out as people bust a nut over something they dont buy, they dont collect and they dont like.

Hey I hate pineapple on my pizza. But I dont spend my time ordering a pizza with pineapple on it then pulling my hair out!!!

[jr24ai3]

really!!!!!!!! 99,9999999% copy of the original. copy/paste, college pic = done!!!!!

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/attachments/basketball-box-breaks/106637d1349222141-fleer-retro-1-case-break-imag1184.jpg





at least panini use an old design as tamplate and do they own version of something that was made in the past that people liked.:)!

Upper Deck's product was called Retro, so you knew you were buying remakes of old designs. And Upper Deck bought out Fleer/Skybox, so they have rights to all the Fleer designs.

Panini's product is taking designs from other card companies and changing them slightly. That is not innovative.

[jr24ai3]

God I can't wait until UD goes under

You realize this is a Panini product, right?

[hairyangryfella]

Hey I hate pineapple on my pizza. But I dont spend my time ordering a pizza with pineapple on it then pulling my hair out!!!

The thing is, I want to buy the pizza, however it's disappointing that there is nothing appealing about it from this restaurant, especially at the usual prices they charge!

[hotbox]

How is 30 products from one company infringing on your quality of choice, option to buy and overall impact on the hobby?

I dont see how the number of products released can be taken in a negative way. If there were only 2 or 3 releases we could easily be disgruntled over lack of choice. But now we're upset because there is too many choices?

Maybe not now, but I bet in twenty years a lot of these cards will loose their value. Still will be fun to collect, sure, but what Panini is doing is inflating the market of 2012/13 basketball cards. I think we're starting to see it with Kobe autographs too. Kobe autographs from Upper Deck go for more in general than a Panini Kobe autograph because Upper Deck no longer makes Kobe autographs, while Panini keeps pumping them out.

I guess if you collect just to collect, then you'd like all the releases. But for most collectors who like to buy a card and see it hold it's value, 30 releases in one year will not help. Just my two cents.

[jj2]

The thing is, I want to buy the pizza, however it's disappointing that there is nothing appealing about it from this restaurant, especially at the usual prices they charge!

What don't you find appealing about the cards in this release?

[zebrastar]

The thing is, I want to buy the pizza, however it's disappointing that there is nothing appealing about it from this restaurant, especially at the usual prices they charge!

If you're going to make Little Caeears pizza, dont charge California Pizza Kitchen prices. And if you make pizza, don't offer me a medium cut into 12 slices, and a medium cut into 10 slices, and a medium cut into 8 slices...

[zebrastar]

And don't make a cheese stuffed crust and call it "innovative"

[hairyangryfella]

What don't you find appealing about the cards in this release?

Well all I looked at was the first page of this thread, and I don't like that the auto cards remind me far too much of UD cards (ie they are lacking originality/INNOVATION) and the stained glass cards look hideous and insulting with the logo on them like it is. Plus I guess I'm just bored with all the products they've been pumping out - there isn't much excitement in it.

The one with the 6 logomans does look like an exciting product. This one does not.

Do they not understand that by pumping out so many autographs (and of the same players) in the same year, that they're devaluing the entire hobby? You can buy HOFer autos for a couple of bucks because there are now so many of them and nobody cares about them now.

[Orangejello727]

If you're going to make Little Caeears pizza, dont charge California Pizza Kitchen prices. And if you make pizza, don't offer me a medium cut into 12 slices, and a medium cut into 10 slices, and a medium cut into 8 slices...

Isnt it easier not to buy what you dont like? When i dont like pizza from a joint, I dont order it! Plain and simple! Unless you are suggesting that you are being forced to buy Panini products they put out? Is that what you guys are saying?

[Yaga]

Do they not understand that by pumping out so many autographs (and of the same players) in the same year, that they're devaluing the entire hobby?

THAT is my problem with all these releases... I'm sitting here watching my collection lose value day by day with all these releases. Rookie autos from guys I've purchases (Waiters, Ross, etc.) from early sets this year like Threads, Limited, etc. are worth like half or even a quarter of what they were just a few months ago. Why? Because every couple of weeks there's another rookie auto... and another... and another.

Sure I collect because I'm a collector. But a year ago, I was buying Durant autos for $150+ and Blake Griffin autos for like $70 to $80. And these aren't the low #'d high end stuff. Now, every product out has a Durant auto and a Blake auto. I'm seeing redemptions for Durants #'d to 25, and they're selling for like $105 or $110. And Blake autos are selling for $40 or even less.

What does that do to the ones I was buying last year? It continues to devalue them. And if the flood continues, they will just keep going down.... everything will keep going down.

[Orangejello727]

Maybe not now, but I bet in twenty years a lot of these cards will loose their value. Still will be fun to collect, sure, but what Panini is doing is inflating the market of 2012/13 basketball cards. I think we're starting to see it with Kobe autographs too. Kobe autographs from Upper Deck go for more in general than a Panini Kobe autograph because Upper Deck no longer makes Kobe autographs, while Panini keeps pumping them out.

I guess if you collect just to collect, then you'd like all the releases. But for most collectors who like to buy a card and see it hold it's value, 30 releases in one year will not help. Just my two cents.

Collectors dont care for value 20 yrs from now. Collectors dont care about resale prices a week from now or 20 yrs from now. Collectors objective of collecting in this hobby is the chase in obtaining the cards. See the a collecting hobby is about collecting. Not buying to resell to profit. Thats called speculating.

Panini is not inflating the market. They do not control the market. You do. You control the market by adding to demand. You dont need to concern yourself with supply so as long as you can create and control demand.

What you see with Kobe autos from UD vs Panini when it comes to price is exactly like you put it. People / collectors pay what they feel for kobe autos. Demand sets the price no matter what the supply is. Ive seen a /50 auto of kobe go for less than a /100 auto of kobe. Thats because demand sets the price, not the supply. A collector doesnt care. Their goal is to obtain the card.

[hairyangryfella]

Isnt it easier not to buy what you dont like? When i dont like pizza from a joint, I dont order it! Plain and simple! Unless you are suggesting that you are being forced to buy Panini products they put out? Is that what you guys are saying?

You just don't get it OJ... People WANT to buy things from the hobby that they love, however the only thing on offer is terrible and/or overpriced.
I don't like pizza from this joint, however it's the ONLY joint there is and I really want some nice pizza!!

[Orangejello727]

THAT is my problem with all these releases... I'm sitting here watching my collection lose value day by day with all these releases. Rookie autos from guys I've purchases (Waiters, Ross, etc.) from early sets this year like Threads, Limited, etc. are worth like half or even a quarter of what they were just a few months ago. Why? Because every couple of weeks there's another rookie auto... and another... and another.

Sure I collect because I'm a collector. But a year ago, I was buying Durant autos for $150+ and Blake Griffin autos for like $70 to $80. And these aren't the low #'d high end stuff. Now, every product out has a Durant auto and a Blake auto. I'm seeing redemptions for Durants #'d to 25, and they're selling for like $105 or $110. And Blake autos are selling for $40 or even less.

What does that do to the ones I was buying last year? It continues to devalue them. And if the flood continues, they will just keep going down.... everything will keep going down.

Then you need to seriously re evaluate your goals in this hobby. You dont collect. You speculate. You have now "invested" money into cards and expecting value to stick around because your value is NOT found in collecting as a hobby goal, but rather to profit from it. Big difference.

Maybe you need to re thinking your purchases if the only concern you have is profiting off your collection. Its much easier to do that that throwing up a prayer and hoping cards increase in value due to lack of production. You cant control what Panini puts out and how much. But you can easily control what you buy and sell!!

[benz35]

Then you need to seriously re evaluate your goals in this hobby. You dont collect. You speculate. You have now "invested" money into cards and expecting value to stick around because your value is NOT found in collecting as a hobby goal, but rather to profit from it. Big difference.

Maybe you need to re thinking your purchases if the only concern you have is profiting off your collection. Its much easier to do that that throwing up a prayer and hoping cards increase in value due to lack of production. You cant control what Panini puts out and how much. But you can easily control what you buy and sell!!

you tell them OJ... give them tips on what stocks to buy and hold :D

[Yaga]

I'm definitely not speculating... but other than a few cards this year, almost everything has went down and continues to go down.

Nor am I looking to only profit off my collection... this can be an expensive hobby... who wants to buy stuff if you know you can buy it cheaper 6 months from now? Up until recently, Panini made a decent amount of Durant autos... not too many, not too little. Now they've opened up the flood gates and it's out of control.

Out of 100 transactions I make, 99 are purchases, and maybe 1 is a sale. I almost never sell, so your statements on me are incorrect. I just don't like to see my collection lose value every day, week, month, etc.

[hairyangryfella]

Out of 100 transactions I make, 99 are purchases, and maybe 1 is a sale. I almost never sell, so your statements on me are incorrect. I just don't like to see my collection lose value every day, week, month, etc.

The solution: don't buy Panini.....

[Yaga]

The solution: don't buy Panini.....

Lol ya no kidding hey?

[benz35]

The solution: don't buy Panini.....


+1 dont buy or support any group breaks :)

[hotbox]

Collectors dont care for value 20 yrs from now. Collectors dont care about resale prices a week from now or 20 yrs from now. Collectors objective of collecting in this hobby is the chase in obtaining the cards. See the a collecting hobby is about collecting. Not buying to resell to profit. Thats called speculating.

Panini is not inflating the market. They do not control the market. You do. You control the market by adding to demand. You dont need to concern yourself with supply so as long as you can create and control demand.

What you see with Kobe autos from UD vs Panini when it comes to price is exactly like you put it. People / collectors pay what they feel for kobe autos. Demand sets the price no matter what the supply is. Ive seen a /50 auto of kobe go for less than a /100 auto of kobe. Thats because demand sets the price, not the supply. A collector doesnt care. Their goal is to obtain the card.

So because I want to make sure my cards don't lose value, I'm not a collector? I don't sell basketball cards to make a profit, but it would be nice to know that they will still have value in 20 years. Plus, more and more resellers are entering the hobby.

I disagree with your second paragraph. They do control the market. They keep pumping out products because they know people will buy them. I think you can consider Panini to be inflating the market. If Kobe Bryant autographs were not put into every single product like they are, I'm sure they'd be worth a lot more. Look at 10/11 Gold Standard. A full subset of Kobe Bryant autographs numbered to 99 or something like that. I don't know how that's not inflating the market of Kobe autographs.

All these responses are based off of who is buying the product. Do I collect cards? Of course, but I also like to know my cards are worth something. The amount of collectors who just collect for fun and are not worried about how much their cards are worth are declining.

[zebrastar]

If you live in a small town and are craving some damn pizza but the only place selling it is the one who makes Little Caesars, charges CPK prices, cuts your pizza 10 different ways, and calls themselves innovative when they stuff their crust... Well, damn... What are you to do? Buy the crap pizza I suppose, cuz you really feel like some pizza! Add to all this that the mayor put a ban from any other pizza joint opening up shop, because the crap joint gives the mayor a cut...

[thepinoymamba]

In order for UD to make those cards, they essentially had to scam, defraud and steal from other companies, players and lie to the public about authentication. It came at a cost. They essentially ruined the hobby, took away trust, made skeptics and then didnt pay up. Ignoring the deceitful ways UD went about their business and turning a blind eye to it, while supporting their product is being hypocritical.

I understand you like the cards and the design. I understand thats all you want to collect and talk about it. That fine. But how does it make sense to love a product that UD put out by putting down Panini? I dont understand. If I get 98% on a an exam while you get 56%, I dont prop myself to have dont better by putting down your 56% mark. Rather I focus on my 98% instead. Thats the frustrating part. Watching day in and out as people bust a nut over something they dont buy, they dont collect and they dont like.

Hey I hate pineapple on my pizza. But I dont spend my time ordering a pizza with pineapple on it then pulling my hair out!!!


Gotta love accountability!

[thepinoymamba]

Dang I love pizza now we are about to go to CPK!
Thanks!
:)

[hairyangryfella]

Gotta love accountability!

Gotta love people who only read what they want to see and not all of the arguments to a silly post like the one you agreed with.... :rolleyes:

[DrJ Converse]

Dang I love pizza now we are about to go to CPK!
Thanks!
:)

More Mojos!

[Orangejello727]

I'm definitely not speculating... but other than a few cards this year, almost everything has went down and continues to go down.

Nor am I looking to only profit off my collection... this can be an expensive hobby... who wants to buy stuff if you know you can buy it cheaper 6 months from now? Up until recently, Panini made a decent amount of Durant autos... not too many, not too little. Now they've opened up the flood gates and it's out of control.

Out of 100 transactions I make, 99 are purchases, and maybe 1 is a sale. I almost never sell, so your statements on me are incorrect. I just don't like to see my collection lose value every day, week, month, etc.

How does it affect you if a card in your collection goes from $100 to $70 in the secondary market when you dont sell cards?

[Orangejello727]

So because I want to make sure my cards don't lose value, I'm not a collector? I don't sell basketball cards to make a profit, but it would be nice to know that they will still have value in 20 years. Plus, more and more resellers are entering the hobby.

I disagree with your second paragraph. They do control the market. They keep pumping out products because they know people will buy them. I think you can consider Panini to be inflating the market. If Kobe Bryant autographs were not put into every single product like they are, I'm sure they'd be worth a lot more. Look at 10/11 Gold Standard. A full subset of Kobe Bryant autographs numbered to 99 or something like that. I don't know how that's not inflating the market of Kobe autographs.

All these responses are based off of who is buying the product. Do I collect cards? Of course, but I also like to know my cards are worth something. The amount of collectors who just collect for fun and are not worried about how much their cards are worth are declining.

They know for sure people will buy them? Great, Id like to know the recipe to a guaranteed sale no matter what I put out. Did you buy all panini products? I mean you just told that you know for a fact that people "WILL" buy it no matter what right? Did hairyangryfella buy it?

Better yet, will you buy Panini Innovation?

[Orangejello727]

If you live in a small town and are craving some damn pizza but the only place selling it is the one who makes Little Caesars, charges CPK prices, cuts your pizza 10 different ways, and calls themselves innovative when they stuff their crust... Well, damn... What are you to do? Buy the crap pizza I suppose, cuz you really feel like some pizza! Add to all this that the mayor put a ban from any other pizza joint opening up shop, because the crap joint gives the mayor a cut...

Simple, dont eat pizza you dont like. Replace it with something you do like. No one is forcing you to buy a product you dont like. Just like no one is forcing Panini to change their recipe to making $$.

[hotbox]

They know for sure people will buy them? Great, Id like to know the recipe to a guaranteed sale no matter what I put out. Did you buy all panini products? I mean you just told that you know for a fact that people "WILL" buy it no matter what right? Did hairyangryfella buy it?

Better yet, will you buy Panini Innovation?


Did I say EVERYONE will buy it? No. Will I buy it? I may or may not. Will hairyangryfella buy it? How should I know, ask him. I'm not the one complaining about the cards.

And yes, every Panini product sells. Again, did I say it will sell to EVERYONE? No. Clearly they are making profit off of their products as they keep making more.

[Orangejello727]

Did I say EVERYONE will buy it? No. Will I buy it? I may or may not. Will hairyangryfella buy it? How should I know, ask him. I'm not the one complaining about the cards.

And yes, every Panini product sells. Again, did I say it will sell to EVERYONE? No. Clearly they are making profit off of their products as they keep making more.

You said they know people will buy them.

How do they know? How do you know for a fact they know? thats what im asking.

Now you say that you dont know who will and will not buy it. Which is it? "they know people will buy it" or the may or may not buy it?

They only make a profit if they can make a product that sells. Its pretty obvious that their products they put out sell to make profit. Doesnt make sense to make a product that loses money, dont you think?

[hotbox]

You said they know people will buy them.

How do they know? How do you know for a fact they know? thats what im asking.

Now you say that you dont know who will and will not buy it. Which is it? "they know people will buy it" or the may or may not buy it?

They only make a profit if they can make a product that sells. Its pretty obvious that their products they put out sell to make profit. Doesnt make sense to make a product that loses money, dont you think?

What don't you understand? I say people will buy it, I'm not saying everyone will buy it. Panini does know people will buy it based on distributors like Blowout always buying Panini products. I'm pretty sure Blowout has bought cases of every Panini basketball product this year.

How do I know? Well, I know my LCS pre-orders a case of all Panini products, I know distributors like Blowout buy Panini products, I know certain case breakers buy any Panini product... Even if Blowout stopped buying Panini products, you seriously think there would be no one else in the world to buy the product?

EXACTLY! It doesn't make sense to put out more products if you're not making a profit! So I think it's safe to say Panini is making money.

[Orangejello727]

What don't you understand? I say people will buy it, I'm not saying everyone will buy it. Panini does know people will buy it based on distributors like Blowout always buying Panini products. I'm pretty sure Blowout has bought cases of every Panini basketball product this year.

How do I know? Well, I know my LCS pre-orders a case of all Panini products, I know distributors like Blowout buy Panini products, I know certain case breakers buy any Panini product... Even if Blowout stopped buying Panini products, you seriously think there would be no one else in the world to buy the product?

EXACTLY! It doesn't make sense to put out more products if you're not making a profit! So I think it's safe to say Panini is making money.

So whats your beef? You are stating above everyone is pre ordering it and selling it. So that means they are making money. So it makes sense to keep making more products!!! More products mean more revenues/profits. Seems like a good business decision to put out as many products as possible. Why the complaints?

[hotbox]

So whats your beef? More products mean more revenues/profits. Seems like a good business decision to put out as many products as possible. Why the complaints?

I think Panini is watering down the market of autographs and especially rookie cards by making 30 products a year. I don't see these cards holding their value in future years. That's my "beef" if you will.

Do I still collect cards? Yea. I have like 6 Deron Williams Panini autographs that I plan on keeping. But with all the Deron autographs they've made in the past year, I think they won't be as valuable in the future. And yes, it's okay to be a collector and think about value.

It is a good business strategy by Panini. I'm not denying it, but I don't like it.

[zebrastar]

That is the point that is being missed here, it is COMPLETELY ok to be a collector and think about value. This hobby has a long history of thinking about "value", you can't expect people to not think about it. Hell, manufacturer's know this, they are literally advertsing secondary market prices of hot sets on their sell sheets!

[Orangejello727]

seems like its your issues to deal with. No one elses. The only advice I have is the same advice I gave earlier.. dont buy it!!

[zebrastar]

seems like its your issues to deal with. No one elses. The only advice I have is the same advice I gave earlier.. dont buy it!!

So you really don't see the reasoning behind the frustration of craving pizza but being cornered into buying Sargento's frozen for $30 a pop? I mean, yeah it's pizza... it'll suffice if you're really craving it, but you've had really good pizza before and you're no fool.

[hotbox]

seems like its your issues to deal with. No one elses. The only advice I have is the same advice I gave earlier.. dont buy it!!

I know... I'm not looking for sympathy lol.

[Orangejello727]

So you really don't see the reasoning behind the frustration of craving pizza but being cornered into buying Sargento's frozen for $30 a pop? I mean, yeah it's pizza... it'll suffice if you're really craving it, but you've had really good pizza before and you're no fool.

Ive always wanted korean short ribs on my pizza, yet no pizza place will put it on my pizza for me. What do you suggest I do?

[hairyangryfella]

So whats your beef? You are stating above everyone is pre ordering it and selling it. So that means they are making money. So it makes sense to keep making more products!!! More products mean more revenues/profits. Seems like a good business decision to put out as many products as possible. Why the complaints?

Uh... because we're not part of the business??

Since you like referring to obscure things to try to make a point, let's say Panini are a company making industrial items and polluting the environment while doing so. If they're making a profit that's all good? Or should the locals and clients actually have an issue with what they're doing...? Profit isn't our concern at all.

[Orangejello727]

Uh... because we're not part of the business??

Since you like referring to obscure things to try to make a point, let's say Panini are a company making industrial items and polluting the environment while doing so. If they're making a profit that's all good? Or should the locals and clients actually have an issue with what they're doing...? Profit isn't our concern at all.

Well its pretty apparent you loved UD cards while they scammed and defrauded people out of millions of dollars. WHy the double standard? Its okay to like UD for its design and buy their cards while they commit fraud and break the law?

If Panini was polluting or breaking any laws, I assure you I would have an issue with the company. SO what laws are they breaking? They are simply putting out product that you do not like and you cant handle it. Thats the straight up truth. Those complaining cannot handle the fact that someone is doing something they dont like. Welcome to the world my friend!! There is a lot of things in this world I dont like.

If you make a profit within the laws and ethically, I see no issues. If you choose to defraud, manipulate and break the laws (Like UD DID) then of course they should be punished under the laws.

[zebrastar]

Ive always wanted korean short ribs on my pizza, yet no pizza place will put it on my pizza for me. What do you suggest I do?

Well if I didn't have a kitchen to make my own in, I guess I would just buy Sargento's Innovative Spicy Italian Pizza.

[Fraser9698]

I like the paint pen autos and quite a few of the insert designs. If this were a bit cheaper I'd bust a case...

[Orangejello727]

Well if I didn't have a kitchen to make my own in, I guess I would just buy Sargento's Innovative Spicy Italian Pizza.

Lots of choices.

1. Make your own pizza just the way you like
2. Replace pizza with another food that you like
3. Dont buy a pie you do not like
4. Have a salad!!!

[hairyangryfella]

Well its pretty apparent you loved UD cards while they scammed and defrauded people out of millions of dollars. WHy the double standard? Its okay to like UD for its design and buy their cards while they commit fraud and break the law?

If Panini was polluting or breaking any laws, I assure you I would have an issue with the company. SO what laws are they breaking? They are simply putting out product that you do not like and you cant handle it. Thats the straight up truth. Those complaining cannot handle the fact that someone is doing something they dont like. Welcome to the world my friend!! There is a lot of things in this world I dont like.

If you make a profit within the laws and ethically, I see no issues. If you choose to defraud, manipulate and break the laws (Like UD DID) then of course they should be punished under the laws.

And it didn't take long for you to go off track...
UD made cards I liked.
Panini make few cards I like.
Panini are the only company making cards in NBA uniform.
We are stuck with whatever Panini offer, which in general isn't very good and/or overpriced.

UD may have been shady and deceitful, but that's NOT the point here. It's that we have NO CHOICE and what we get offered 30 times a year isn't what we expect.

[hairyangryfella]

Lots of choices.

1. Make your own pizza just the way you like
2. Replace pizza with another food that you like
3. Dont buy a pie you do not like
4. Have a salad!!!

So we're supposed to print our own cards?
You're getting carried away with the pizza analogy and not talking sense relating to the actual situation... :rolleyes:

[zebrastar]

Lots of choices.

1. Make your own pizza just the way you like
2. Replace pizza with another food that you like
3. Dont buy a pie you do not like
4. Have a salad!!!

1. Can't, don't have a kitchen
2. I want pizza
3. I want pizza
4. I want pizza... fine, I probably should just get a salad.

[Orangejello727]

So we're supposed to print our own cards?
You're getting carried away with the pizza analogy and not talking sense relating to the actual situation... :rolleyes:

Listen the point is that cards are not a necessity. You dont need them and you dont have to have them to live. You will not die if you dont collect them or buy what you dont like.

When fleer went bankrupts, I had to find a way to live!! :D WIthout fleer, my life didnt come to an end. I embraced companies like Topps and UD and now Panini. My obligation to the hobby is to collect. Collecting keeps me happy. If I could no longer collect once fleer went belly up, I had a choice. To either stop or collect something else. WHy cant you make the decision?

To me this sounds like a case of "you cant have your cake and eat it to" An expression basically meaning that you can only have it so good, and you can't have it all. Im sorry but you cant have it all!

[hairyangryfella]

Listen the point is that cards are not a necessity. You dont need them and you dont have to have them to live. You will not die if you dont collect them or buy what you dont like.

To me this sounds like a case of "you cant have your cake and eat it to" An expression basically meaning that you can only have it so good, and you can't have it all. Im sorry but you cant have it all!

Of course they're not. Duh.

So because we have expectations as customers we're supposed to just collect it or walk away? Why can't we demand better from the SOLE PROVIDER in this industry? Because they have a monopoly? Isn't that exactly the point...?

[Orangejello727]

Of course they're not. Duh.

So because we have expectations as customers we're supposed to just collect it or walk away? Why can't we demand better from the SOLE PROVIDER in this industry? Because they have a monopoly? Isn't that exactly the point...?

Yes, thats what Im pretty much saying. Im basically saying that you should walk away from things you do not like and not buy them. It doesnt make sense to me to force yourself to buy cards you do not like. Rather focus your energy on the cards you do like! Just makes sense to me.

You can! You have! Just like they can! They have!

You keep asking them to produce something different. They try and produce something. People buy it. They just dont happen to produce something you specifically like. They cant make everyone happy. But they do make a lot of people happy.

It seems like a big circle jerk.
YOu keep asking them to be more like UD. WHen they produce cards similar to UD, you cry foul about how the design is recycled.

You keep asking them to produce different designs. They do and you cry foul about it.

Honestly, do you really think they can produce something you will not like when its pretty clear you will never like anything that is made by a company name "Panini". Even if they produced Panini UD!! :)!:)!

Im confident in saying that if every product produced by Panini this year was tagged 'Upper Deck" it would have been a solid hit for most people here. But it fell short because it wasnt UD.

[thepinoymamba]

Yes, thats what Im pretty much saying. Im basically saying that you should walk away from things you do not like and not buy them. It doesnt make sense to me to force yourself to buy cards you do not like. Rather focus your energy on the cards you do like! Just makes sense to me.

You can! You have! Just like they can! They have!

You keep asking them to produce something different. They try and produce something. People buy it. They just dont happen to produce something you specifically like. They cant make everyone happy. But they do make a lot of people happy.

It seems like a big circle jerk.
YOu keep asking them to be more like UD. WHen they produce cards similar to UD, you cry foul about how the design is recycled.

You keep asking them to produce different designs. They do and you cry foul about it.

Honestly, do you really think they can produce something you will not like when its pretty clear you will never like anything that is made by a company name "Panini". Even if they produced Panini UD!! :)!:)!

Im confident in saying that if every product produced by Panini this year was tagged 'Upper Deck" it would have been a solid hit for most people here. But it fell short because it wasnt UD.

You have hit it!
Jackpot!!!
Its all About UD, lol.
Move on, UD is done,
Panini has the basketball and their going for the win!
Game over.

[hairyangryfella]

Yes, thats what Im pretty much saying. Im basically saying that you should walk away from things you do not like and not buy them. It doesnt make sense to me to force yourself to buy cards you do not like. Rather focus your energy on the cards you do like! Just makes sense to me.

You can! You have! Just like they can! They have!

You keep asking them to produce something different. They try and produce something. People buy it. They just dont happen to produce something you specifically like. They cant make everyone happy. But they do make a lot of people happy.

It seems like a big circle jerk.
YOu keep asking them to be more like UD. WHen they produce cards similar to UD, you cry foul about how the design is recycled.

You keep asking them to produce different designs. They do and you cry foul about it.

Honestly, do you really think they can produce something you will not like when its pretty clear you will never like anything that is made by a company name "Panini". Even if they produced Panini UD!! :)!:)!

Im confident in saying that if every product produced by Panini this year was tagged 'Upper Deck" it would have been a solid hit for most people here. But it fell short because it wasnt UD.

I don't buy cards I don't like. Panini make it easy by not producing many that I do like :)!
I don't want Panini to copy UD. I just want Panini to give collectors a fair go. Don't overprice your scrub-filled sticker auto sets. Actually put effort into design. Things like that.....


You have hit it!
Jackpot!!!
Its all About UD, lol.
Move on, UD is done,
Panini has the basketball and their going for the win!
Game over.

Oh do be quiet

[zebrastar]

You have hit it!
Jackpot!!!
Its all About UD, lol.
Move on, UD is done,
Panini has the basketball and their going for the win!
Game over.

Yeah!!!
UD is dead!
Panini Killed UD with Slam Dunk!
UD is in trunk of Panini Monster Truck Car!
UD can't breathe in trunk of car!
UD slow death
I will smile when UD suffer

[thepinoymamba]

Hahaha!
UD is Done. ONLY LEbronze James And Jordan drives it.
Soon to be bankrupt!
:)

[hotbox]

Hahaha!
UD is Done. ONLY LEbronze James And Jordan drives it.
Soon to be bankrupt!
:)

Okay we get it, you love Panini.

[jj2]

It's the same old rhetoric every time with these guys. Most have them have decided they hate the product before they have even seen it, and worse, many will do a 180 once they get a whiff that there's some money to be made.

You can click on one of these threads and already predict who will have bagged it and the reasons why.

[jj2]

Well all I looked at was the first page of this thread

So you only read the first few lines of the menu and based on that decided the rest must be crap?

[hairyangryfella]

It's the same old rhetoric every time with these guys. Most have them have decided they hate the product before they have even seen it, and worse, many will do a 180 once they get a whiff that there's some money to be made.

You can click on one of these threads and already predict who will have bagged it and the reasons why.

Am I trying to make money? No.
Do I say positive things about Panini cards sometimes? Yes.
So shut up, fool.

So you only read the first few lines of the menu and based on that decided the rest must be crap?

They offer us a selection of their finest previews and they look crap. Why would you look further?
I know Pinoy adores Panini, not sure why you get so testy though.

[hairyangryfella]

Hahaha!
UD is Done. ONLY LEbronze James And Jordan drives it.
Soon to be bankrupt!
:)

Yet if their cards had NBA uniforms they'd destroy Panini with designs...

[jj2]

Am I trying to make money? No.
Do I say positive things about Panini cards sometimes? Yes.
So shut up, fool.

Sorry, did I mention you by name specifically? The name calling isn't really very becoming of you.

I know Pinoy adores Panini, not sure why you get so testy though.

Hmmm... testy indeed.

[jj2]

They offer us a selection of their finest previews and they look crap. Why would you look further?

So all of these look like crap in your opinion?

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-20.jpg?w=598

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-25.jpg?w=616

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-27.jpg?w=602

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-74.jpg?w=603

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-47.jpg?w=634

I've been critical of Panini in the past (NT in particular), but this stuff looks pretty nice.

[benz35]

i just bought 5 box random team for $19.. lol should be fun..

[gregnice37]

The funny part about people complaining that there are too many autos now are the same people that complained there weren't enough autos before. People were begging for Kobe and Durant autos, so Panini signed them to sign autos and now they are overproduced. You demanded it, remember. What were to happen if Panini got to have MJ and Lebron to sign. I know, you'd tell them to start putting autos in there products, then 2 years later you would complain there is too many now and the autos are being overproduced, its a no win situation the isn't it.

[NJNets24]

The funny part about people complaining that there are too many autos now are the same people that complained there weren't enough autos before. People were begging for Kobe and Durant autos, so Panini signed them to sign autos and now they are overproduced. You demanded it, remember. What were to happen if Panini got to have MJ and Lebron to sign. I know, you'd tell them to start putting autos in there products, then 2 years later you would complain there is too many now and the autos are being overproduced, its a no win situation the isn't it.

Not to mention that if UD was still around and was putting out Kobe and KD autos, the word "overproduced" would never, ever be mentioned.

[coolz]

I like the cards, and don't really mind if it's a recycled design
But calling it Innovation is just...well...

[Sikkcaden]

You guys have a problem with the name "Innovation"...coming from a company that releases a low-end product called "Prestige"?

[Orangejello727]

You guys have a problem with the name "Innovation"...coming from a company that releases a low-end product called "Prestige"?

You wrote too much.. should have just stopped at...

You guys have a problem :D:D

[thepinoymamba]

The funny part about people complaining that there are too many autos now are the same people that complained there weren't enough autos before. People were begging for Kobe and Durant autos, so Panini signed them to sign autos and now they are overproduced. You demanded it, remember. What were to happen if Panini got to have MJ and Lebron to sign. I know, you'd tell them to start putting autos in there products, then 2 years later you would complain there is too many now and the autos are being overproduced, its a no win situation the isn't it.

Well said.
Its the same thing on UD. Too many King James and Jordan Autos
Too diluted. As a collector I love it. That way I could pick a
Jordan auto for less than $150 in near future.

[thepinoymamba]

So all of these look like crap in your opinion?

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-20.jpg?w=598

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-25.jpg?w=616

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-27.jpg?w=602

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-74.jpg?w=603

http://paniniamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/panini-america-2012-13-innovation-basketball-qc-47.jpg?w=634

I've been critical of Panini in the past (NT in particular), but this stuff looks pretty nice.

Very cool design and all! Gotta love them for true collectors.
The complainers are mostly investors or flippers!
The Products are produced to be collected
The tainted glass is still a disgrace.

[IronMonkey415]

I love you so much.

[thepinoymamba]

I love you so much.

Gratzie!
I will check your ebay!

[benz35]

omg... lmao ..

[greetl01]

Yes the stained glass is hideous & i'm not even religious. Stained glass is ugly period. Wouldn't mind one of those autos though.

[thepinoymamba]

Would chech all your ebay.
Pm me all your ebay links. Lets buy some good cards.

[thepinoymamba]

*CHECK lets see how good the cards are!

[Sikkcaden]

I wish I had some nice cards to sell...However, I do have plenty of empty boxes. Panini makes such nice box designs!

[zebrastar]

I wish I had some nice cards to sell...However, I do have plenty of empty boxes. Panini makes such nice box designs!

Just be sure that when you buy Panini Innovative next week that you rip the lid of your box to see if there are any innovative glossy cards in there... PANINI INNOVATIVE

[thepinoymamba]

Just be sure that when you buy Panini Innovative next week that you rip the lid of your box to see if there are any innovative glossy cards in there... PANINI INNOVATIVE

Im not getting it. Because of the Tainted Glass that is a Mockery of what I believe in.
Church is A Sacred ground. PANINI design team crossed the line.
Very disapointed.

[oldgoldy97]

I'm not buying Innovation but I am going to buy a pizza with extra pineapple tonight for dinner.

[thepinoymamba]

I'm not buying Innovation but I am going to buy a pizza with extra pineapple tonight for dinner.

Just had dinner last night on CPK for it because of this trend. I took my family to it.
So thanks Guys!

[hairyangryfella]

The funny part about people complaining that there are too many autos now are the same people that complained there weren't enough autos before. People were begging for Kobe and Durant autos, so Panini signed them to sign autos and now they are overproduced. You demanded it, remember. What were to happen if Panini got to have MJ and Lebron to sign. I know, you'd tell them to start putting autos in there products, then 2 years later you would complain there is too many now and the autos are being overproduced, its a no win situation the isn't it.

Not to mention that if UD was still around and was putting out Kobe and KD autos, the word "overproduced" would never, ever be mentioned.

Hardly, UD wouldn't be releasing 30+ products all with 4 different types of Kobe autos in them.... :rolleyes:

Very cool design and all! Gotta love them for true collectors.
The complainers are mostly investors or flippers!
The Products are produced to be collected
The tainted glass is still a disgrace.

I am neither an investor or a flipper, so once again you're just talking crap.


In regards to those images of cards posted, 3 of them look ok to me. About time they started using etching type backgrounds and whatnot.

[jj2]

About time they started using etching type backgrounds and whatnot.

Have you missed every release of TC (and preferred to a lesser extent)?

[hairyangryfella]

Have you missed every release of TC (and preferred to a lesser extent)?

Must have, never noticed it like this on them. These remind me of the 1995 Skybox stuff

[jj2]

Must have, never noticed it like this on them. These remind me of the 1995 Skybox stuff

Me too. That Zo in particular has a very 90's look to it.

[thepinoymamba]

Wow a collector that never sells.... what?
Who are you kidding! Haha!

[hairyangryfella]

Wow a collector that never sells.... what?
Who are you kidding! Haha!

Are you talking to me?

I did sell most of my collection because I had to pay for a holiday. No flipping there though. Everything I have left is basically what I'm keeping.

When did you join the hobby? I'm guessing sometime after 2009...

[thepinoymamba]

Are you talking to me?

I did sell most of my collection because I had to pay for a holiday. No flipping there though. Everything I have left is basically what I'm keeping.

When did you join the hobby? I'm guessing sometime after 2009...

1993-2000 then stopped for my family.
Then my love started to collect which restarted my collection
As well.
So started last july, 2012.

[sunsfan8]

Walks into basketball forum. Sees Jesus brought up.

http://static.tumblr.com/ctlvpci/g4Ym0os0s/homer_simpson_fade.gif

[benz35]

Contest winners!!! Congrats! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UZjWXb1qBM)

7:09 -> now thats innovation