MGoBlue
09-12-2013, 09:08 AM
I posted this on HK, which is where I spend the majority of my time, but I have been increasingly more active here lately and wanted to post this and ask for some help/guidance.
Story:
This card showed up on ebay from a French Blowout member:
2004 05 Ultimate Collection Premium Patches Chris Webber Sick Logo Patch 75 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/350866080312?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
As you can see from the auction the card looks great, maybe a small crease in the patch window on the upper left-hand side. No biggie. So I hit the BIN for $250. Actually not a bad price for the Webber with that nasty patch. Well, today the card arrived from France. Bubble mailer, card-toploaded, and a decoy on one side, but not both. Envelope in good shape as well. No issues at all with the shipping method. But when I opened the package and took the card out to put it in a one-touch I see all this......
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0154_zps48ae1451.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0154_zps48ae1451.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0153_zpsd9c44d98.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0153_zpsd9c44d98.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0152_zpsd8234af1.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0152_zpsd8234af1.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0151_zps45900aec.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0151_zps45900aec.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0150_zps299f13f7.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0150_zps299f13f7.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0149_zpsfb3d1b44.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0149_zpsfb3d1b44.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0148_zps5d883e7b.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0148_zps5d883e7b.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0147_zps674f8052.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0147_zps674f8052.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0146_zpsea263bc1.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0146_zpsea263bc1.jpg.html)
It is very clear to me that the damage did not happen in transit. Here are pictures of the packaging:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0160_zps6df0f206.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0160_zps6df0f206.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0161_zpsaf195471.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0161_zpsaf195471.jpg.html)
The decoy only has two tiny little creases on it that are on the surface only. The decoy was place on the top loader, covering the front of the card. So in order for the front of the card to be so severely creased, the decoy and toploader would have to be mangled severely, not to mention the bubble mailer itself.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0162_zps851c3493.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0162_zps851c3493.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0163_zpsd037fe52.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0163_zpsd037fe52.jpg.html)
Picture of the back of the toploader, which did not have a decoy. Again, no damage or signs of distress anywhere.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0164_zps4c6fa0a3.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0164_zps4c6fa0a3.jpg.html)
So, having seen all this, and looking VERY closely at the ebay photo used, I come to the conclusion that I have been purposely deceived. I am wrong in stating that this simply could not have happen in transit???
So I sent the member a message, which I will share, as I believe in complete transparency.
Here is my initial message to him:
Hey man, thanks for the fast shipping of the card. It actually arrived yesterday, but I was at work so they left a notice that I had to sign for it. So I went this afternoon to pick it up. I was so excited to get home and see that beautiful patch. I got home and opened it up. Your packaging was great....bubble mailer, toploader, and a decoy card all put together nicely. But that's where the excitement quickly turned to disappointment. As I pulled the card out of the toploader to put into a new one-touch holder, this is what I saw:
(pics of damaged card shown above, though I did not send pics of the packaging)
Clearly the card is in bad shape with creases all over it......nothing like the picture in the ebay auction here:
2004 05 Ultimate Collection Premium Patches Chris Webber Sick Logo Patch 75 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/350866080312?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
And like I said, your packaging was great and the bubble mailer was in perfect condition, so there is no way this happened in transit to the USA. What I'm saying is, the card had to be in this bad condition when you shipped it. There's no other explanation. So I feel really deceived by this. You used a great looking picture on ebay of what the card used to look like, but sent the card in its current condition. I'm just confused as to why you did this. If I had seen a picture of this card on ebay in its current condition, I wouldn't have even bid on it. I already have a copy of the card with a fantastic patch......here it is:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/C-Webb%20PC/Patches/DSC_0337.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/C-Webb%20PC/Patches/DSC_0337.jpg.html)
pic of my card
So I definitely wouldn't buy another one if I knew it was in horrible condition. I just want you to know that I am not trying to get the card for a cheaper price......$50 is too much for this card in this condition. I don't want it at all. So, I am asking for a full refund and I will gladly ship the card back to you.
I hate this, as it is the very first time I have ever had any problems with any transaction. I guess it had to happen sooner or later. I'm just upset that you posted a picture on ebay of the card in great condition and then sent me the card badly damaged. I don't want to make any trouble at all by this. I would just like to get my money back and send you the card back.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Thanks for you time,
Matt
--------------------------------------------
This morning, I got his response. It reads:
Hi
Got you message from ebay and discovered your pictures here.
First of all, I m very disapointed about the pictures you sent, the card I sold was clean and in a perfect state, as you can see on the ebay's picture, you can zoom there is no crease on the card !
You can check my evaluation everywhere, I m an honest person and never sold a damaged card instead one in good condition, the only time I sold a damaged card, it was clearly mentionned on the title with many pictures of the damaged.
I pack all the card I ship on the same way, as best as possible and when your card has shipped it was in very good state without any creases. So I m pretty sure this come from the postage.
It looks like someone from the post pushed hard on the mailer, I think the creases came from this, that's a possibility.
I already had an experience similar to this one, but with a blank corner, one for hundreds of mails.
As it was not my fault, I found a solution with the buyer a gave him a partial refund.
Here I understand you are very disappointed about that, same for me ! I can't give you a full refund cause it was not my fault, this came from the postage and I mentionned on the sale that I do not accept any return.
The best I can do is to give you a partial refund of $50, which is a high refund compared to the troubles. The card still looking good with an awesome patch so still a good piece for your collection !
-----------------------------------------
Not happy with his response, I reply, not as kindly:
Thanks for the reply, but this is completely unacceptable to me. It DID NOT come from the postage. The creases are so deep on the card that in order for this to happen in transit, the mailer, decoy, and toploader would have been damaged as well.....they were not. The mailer, decoy, and toploader did not have a mark or bend or crease on them. I can supply pictures of them if you wish (I assumed you would try to blame it on the post office). So it is absolutely impossible for the card to have been deeply creased without any of the packing supplies being torn up as well. Does that make sense? It just could not have happened in transit. I will be forced to file a case through ebay/paypal then. I will not accept a destroyed card like this. You claim this isn't your fault, but I completely disagree based on the evidence. It was mailed to me in this condition, and it's pretty obvious. And the fact that you brought up that the auction stated no returns, further leads me to believe you knew it all along.
I should also let you know that I have contacted several mods and other good collectors and they agree that this could not have been damaged in transit, based on the pictures. They are also quite concerned about the use of an old picture on the ebay auction with the card in perfect condition. I will be forced to make a thread about this on here and blowout as well.
This card isn't worth $50. It is creased so deeply on the front, it is literally worthless to me. So to suggest a $50 refund is a complete insult. As I stated before, had I seen the card in this condition, I would not have even bid. And to state this is a good piece for my collection is ridiculous.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
His response:
I didn't use an old picture, I just took it before listing the card on ebay, I was pretty sure the card was clean and till before I shipped it.
I bought the card from jackot, as I told you and just get it, took a picture and put it on ebay.
I m not trying to cheat and I m not a lier, I use to deal everywhere in the world and I know what I m doing clearly.
You can check as well all my ebay sales and you will see that I don't accept any return for all my sales! That 's not especially for your.
I m really angry cause you try to make me look like a crook !
If there were these creases on the card I won't sold it as a good state card and even less for that price !
So I'm sure this came out from the postage, you don't need any tear on the mail to have this or any marks on the toploader or the mail.
If I remember the card where in a toploader with a carton scotch in it. With a finger pressure on the email, you can do this even more the patch part of the card, which is damaged now, is fragile, so even through the mail, the carton and toploader, the pressure can damaged the card.
The worst for me is that I had a really nice card in perfect state and I will have to refund you the money and I will have a no value destroyed card back...!!! wow what a goooooooooood deal for me !
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So that’s where it stands now. I haven’t responded yet. I find it quite amusing that he tries to persuade me into keeping the card for a refund and tells me that it is still a good deal for my collection at $200. Then, the last line of his most recent response, he agrees with me that the card is worthless. I feel more and more validated that I was correct in assuming he knew of the damage before shipping the card.
At this point, I need advice on how to proceed. If I file a claim and send the card back for a full refund, I’d have to use FedEx to get delivery confirmation, right? I don’t think USPS can provide sufficient tracking back to France to cover me. So that would be what $40-50? I’m very much ok with being out that much money, as I am doing this on principle alone at this point. But what type of claim do I file? Item not as described? Damaged? I’ve never had this happen before so I don’t know how to go forward. I just don’t want to send the card back and then somehow lose the case and be out the $250 dollars.
Thanks guys,
Matt
------------------------------------
My newest response:
I'm sorry that you believe this happened in the mail. Any rational person can see that it did not. And I am bothered by at least 2 more things in your reply:
1. You initially tried to convince me that a $50 refund was a good deal as the card is still a great deal for my collection. Now in this response you agree with me that it is worthless when you say, "The worst for me is that I had a really nice card in perfect state and I will have to refund you the money and I will have a no value destroyed card back...!!! wow what a goooooooooood deal for me !" So now you agree the card is worthless???? But just a few hours ago I was getting a good deal with a $50 refund? What a joke man.
and
2. Let me reiterate, THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN THE MAIL. But lets assume for just a minute that it did.......By you saying, "So I'm sure this came out from the postage, you don't need any tear on the mail to have this or any marks on the toploader or the mail.
If I remember the card where in a toploader with a carton scotch in it. With a finger pressure on the email, you can do this even more the patch part of the card, which is damaged now, is fragile, so even through the mail, the carton and toploader, the pressure can damaged the card." That means you were completely negligent. If you knew that a card could be so easily damaged in the mail, then why in the world would you send it without the proper protection???? It doesn't make any sense?
It is becoming more and more clear to me that you did in fact send it to me with full knowledge of it's condition.
I've started threads on HK and Blowout about this. To this point I have been kind and haven't named you. But I am losing my patience. It seems like every opportunity I give you to tell me the truth, you get VERY defensive.
---------------------------
His response:
Man I understand that you re disappointed because of all we are talking about but just trust me 1 minute and you ll understand that I m not in defensive but disappointed!!!
I quoted you for the no value card cause for me this still a nice patch card but now I lost big value because of the damaged even if you don t trust me about the fact this happened during the postage.
I SWARE I didn t shipped a damaged card, just trust me and we can start resolving this problem from this!
For my explanation of packaging and shipment, I m sure this came from the shipping ! My goal is not to say it s your faut, to start a claim and avoid to refund you, that s not what I m looking for ! I just want you stop making me feel like a lier or something like that.
I m pretty sure if I used a magnetic holder, hard case this would never happened ! and in this point it s my fault because I didn t use it. But don t say I sent you a damaged card, I reiterate : I m an honest person, Check my evaluations on ebay, on this board and other european boards. I can accept refund you or anything else but not your talks about what I m not and didnt do!
It s more about truth then money here !
And finally, I understand you scared loosing your money but dont Be scared I m not a scammer, if you absolutely don t want to keep the card, so send me back and you will have your full refund.
I m just pissed of cause I had a nice card and will have a damaged card now, can you understand that???
-----------------------------------------------
My response:
We are simply gonna have to agree to disagree on how the card got damaged. I'm sorry. I am a logical person, and with all the evidence I have, I just can't allow myself to believe that it was damaged in the mail.
But as far as returning the card goes, why the sudden change of heart? I am bothered by it. Had you offered right away to do the right thing by giving me a full refund, none of this would have happened. But you chose to try to shake me down and get me to accept a $50 refund.
If I was in your position and the situation was reversed, I would have instantly apologized (whether it was my fault or not) and offered a full refund. It's just the right thing to do, especially since you were apparently aware of the potential damage and how easy it is to damage a card in the mail, and you chose not to put it in a one-touch case anyway.
So I will send the card back for a full refund, but I simply cannot at this point just take your word for it and not cover myself. I have to file a claim, leave the appropriate feedback, and get signature confirmation or I could potentially lose the card and the money.
If you want to send the refund voluntarily and BEFORE I send the card back, that will solve everything. And frankly it seems the most honest, good-faith thing you could do. I will gladly ship the card back to you in the one-touch holder at my cost.
So it's up to you at this point.
-----------------------
His response:
I will refund you tomorrow
I let you know
Story:
This card showed up on ebay from a French Blowout member:
2004 05 Ultimate Collection Premium Patches Chris Webber Sick Logo Patch 75 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/350866080312?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
As you can see from the auction the card looks great, maybe a small crease in the patch window on the upper left-hand side. No biggie. So I hit the BIN for $250. Actually not a bad price for the Webber with that nasty patch. Well, today the card arrived from France. Bubble mailer, card-toploaded, and a decoy on one side, but not both. Envelope in good shape as well. No issues at all with the shipping method. But when I opened the package and took the card out to put it in a one-touch I see all this......
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0154_zps48ae1451.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0154_zps48ae1451.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0153_zpsd9c44d98.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0153_zpsd9c44d98.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0152_zpsd8234af1.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0152_zpsd8234af1.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0151_zps45900aec.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0151_zps45900aec.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0150_zps299f13f7.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0150_zps299f13f7.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0149_zpsfb3d1b44.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0149_zpsfb3d1b44.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0148_zps5d883e7b.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0148_zps5d883e7b.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0147_zps674f8052.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0147_zps674f8052.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0146_zpsea263bc1.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0146_zpsea263bc1.jpg.html)
It is very clear to me that the damage did not happen in transit. Here are pictures of the packaging:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0160_zps6df0f206.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0160_zps6df0f206.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0161_zpsaf195471.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0161_zpsaf195471.jpg.html)
The decoy only has two tiny little creases on it that are on the surface only. The decoy was place on the top loader, covering the front of the card. So in order for the front of the card to be so severely creased, the decoy and toploader would have to be mangled severely, not to mention the bubble mailer itself.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0162_zps851c3493.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0162_zps851c3493.jpg.html)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0163_zpsd037fe52.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0163_zpsd037fe52.jpg.html)
Picture of the back of the toploader, which did not have a decoy. Again, no damage or signs of distress anywhere.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/Help/DSC_0164_zps4c6fa0a3.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/Help/DSC_0164_zps4c6fa0a3.jpg.html)
So, having seen all this, and looking VERY closely at the ebay photo used, I come to the conclusion that I have been purposely deceived. I am wrong in stating that this simply could not have happen in transit???
So I sent the member a message, which I will share, as I believe in complete transparency.
Here is my initial message to him:
Hey man, thanks for the fast shipping of the card. It actually arrived yesterday, but I was at work so they left a notice that I had to sign for it. So I went this afternoon to pick it up. I was so excited to get home and see that beautiful patch. I got home and opened it up. Your packaging was great....bubble mailer, toploader, and a decoy card all put together nicely. But that's where the excitement quickly turned to disappointment. As I pulled the card out of the toploader to put into a new one-touch holder, this is what I saw:
(pics of damaged card shown above, though I did not send pics of the packaging)
Clearly the card is in bad shape with creases all over it......nothing like the picture in the ebay auction here:
2004 05 Ultimate Collection Premium Patches Chris Webber Sick Logo Patch 75 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/350866080312?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
And like I said, your packaging was great and the bubble mailer was in perfect condition, so there is no way this happened in transit to the USA. What I'm saying is, the card had to be in this bad condition when you shipped it. There's no other explanation. So I feel really deceived by this. You used a great looking picture on ebay of what the card used to look like, but sent the card in its current condition. I'm just confused as to why you did this. If I had seen a picture of this card on ebay in its current condition, I wouldn't have even bid on it. I already have a copy of the card with a fantastic patch......here it is:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm12/buckley10/C-Webb%20PC/Patches/DSC_0337.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/buckley10/media/C-Webb%20PC/Patches/DSC_0337.jpg.html)
pic of my card
So I definitely wouldn't buy another one if I knew it was in horrible condition. I just want you to know that I am not trying to get the card for a cheaper price......$50 is too much for this card in this condition. I don't want it at all. So, I am asking for a full refund and I will gladly ship the card back to you.
I hate this, as it is the very first time I have ever had any problems with any transaction. I guess it had to happen sooner or later. I'm just upset that you posted a picture on ebay of the card in great condition and then sent me the card badly damaged. I don't want to make any trouble at all by this. I would just like to get my money back and send you the card back.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Thanks for you time,
Matt
--------------------------------------------
This morning, I got his response. It reads:
Hi
Got you message from ebay and discovered your pictures here.
First of all, I m very disapointed about the pictures you sent, the card I sold was clean and in a perfect state, as you can see on the ebay's picture, you can zoom there is no crease on the card !
You can check my evaluation everywhere, I m an honest person and never sold a damaged card instead one in good condition, the only time I sold a damaged card, it was clearly mentionned on the title with many pictures of the damaged.
I pack all the card I ship on the same way, as best as possible and when your card has shipped it was in very good state without any creases. So I m pretty sure this come from the postage.
It looks like someone from the post pushed hard on the mailer, I think the creases came from this, that's a possibility.
I already had an experience similar to this one, but with a blank corner, one for hundreds of mails.
As it was not my fault, I found a solution with the buyer a gave him a partial refund.
Here I understand you are very disappointed about that, same for me ! I can't give you a full refund cause it was not my fault, this came from the postage and I mentionned on the sale that I do not accept any return.
The best I can do is to give you a partial refund of $50, which is a high refund compared to the troubles. The card still looking good with an awesome patch so still a good piece for your collection !
-----------------------------------------
Not happy with his response, I reply, not as kindly:
Thanks for the reply, but this is completely unacceptable to me. It DID NOT come from the postage. The creases are so deep on the card that in order for this to happen in transit, the mailer, decoy, and toploader would have been damaged as well.....they were not. The mailer, decoy, and toploader did not have a mark or bend or crease on them. I can supply pictures of them if you wish (I assumed you would try to blame it on the post office). So it is absolutely impossible for the card to have been deeply creased without any of the packing supplies being torn up as well. Does that make sense? It just could not have happened in transit. I will be forced to file a case through ebay/paypal then. I will not accept a destroyed card like this. You claim this isn't your fault, but I completely disagree based on the evidence. It was mailed to me in this condition, and it's pretty obvious. And the fact that you brought up that the auction stated no returns, further leads me to believe you knew it all along.
I should also let you know that I have contacted several mods and other good collectors and they agree that this could not have been damaged in transit, based on the pictures. They are also quite concerned about the use of an old picture on the ebay auction with the card in perfect condition. I will be forced to make a thread about this on here and blowout as well.
This card isn't worth $50. It is creased so deeply on the front, it is literally worthless to me. So to suggest a $50 refund is a complete insult. As I stated before, had I seen the card in this condition, I would not have even bid. And to state this is a good piece for my collection is ridiculous.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
His response:
I didn't use an old picture, I just took it before listing the card on ebay, I was pretty sure the card was clean and till before I shipped it.
I bought the card from jackot, as I told you and just get it, took a picture and put it on ebay.
I m not trying to cheat and I m not a lier, I use to deal everywhere in the world and I know what I m doing clearly.
You can check as well all my ebay sales and you will see that I don't accept any return for all my sales! That 's not especially for your.
I m really angry cause you try to make me look like a crook !
If there were these creases on the card I won't sold it as a good state card and even less for that price !
So I'm sure this came out from the postage, you don't need any tear on the mail to have this or any marks on the toploader or the mail.
If I remember the card where in a toploader with a carton scotch in it. With a finger pressure on the email, you can do this even more the patch part of the card, which is damaged now, is fragile, so even through the mail, the carton and toploader, the pressure can damaged the card.
The worst for me is that I had a really nice card in perfect state and I will have to refund you the money and I will have a no value destroyed card back...!!! wow what a goooooooooood deal for me !
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So that’s where it stands now. I haven’t responded yet. I find it quite amusing that he tries to persuade me into keeping the card for a refund and tells me that it is still a good deal for my collection at $200. Then, the last line of his most recent response, he agrees with me that the card is worthless. I feel more and more validated that I was correct in assuming he knew of the damage before shipping the card.
At this point, I need advice on how to proceed. If I file a claim and send the card back for a full refund, I’d have to use FedEx to get delivery confirmation, right? I don’t think USPS can provide sufficient tracking back to France to cover me. So that would be what $40-50? I’m very much ok with being out that much money, as I am doing this on principle alone at this point. But what type of claim do I file? Item not as described? Damaged? I’ve never had this happen before so I don’t know how to go forward. I just don’t want to send the card back and then somehow lose the case and be out the $250 dollars.
Thanks guys,
Matt
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My newest response:
I'm sorry that you believe this happened in the mail. Any rational person can see that it did not. And I am bothered by at least 2 more things in your reply:
1. You initially tried to convince me that a $50 refund was a good deal as the card is still a great deal for my collection. Now in this response you agree with me that it is worthless when you say, "The worst for me is that I had a really nice card in perfect state and I will have to refund you the money and I will have a no value destroyed card back...!!! wow what a goooooooooood deal for me !" So now you agree the card is worthless???? But just a few hours ago I was getting a good deal with a $50 refund? What a joke man.
and
2. Let me reiterate, THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN THE MAIL. But lets assume for just a minute that it did.......By you saying, "So I'm sure this came out from the postage, you don't need any tear on the mail to have this or any marks on the toploader or the mail.
If I remember the card where in a toploader with a carton scotch in it. With a finger pressure on the email, you can do this even more the patch part of the card, which is damaged now, is fragile, so even through the mail, the carton and toploader, the pressure can damaged the card." That means you were completely negligent. If you knew that a card could be so easily damaged in the mail, then why in the world would you send it without the proper protection???? It doesn't make any sense?
It is becoming more and more clear to me that you did in fact send it to me with full knowledge of it's condition.
I've started threads on HK and Blowout about this. To this point I have been kind and haven't named you. But I am losing my patience. It seems like every opportunity I give you to tell me the truth, you get VERY defensive.
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His response:
Man I understand that you re disappointed because of all we are talking about but just trust me 1 minute and you ll understand that I m not in defensive but disappointed!!!
I quoted you for the no value card cause for me this still a nice patch card but now I lost big value because of the damaged even if you don t trust me about the fact this happened during the postage.
I SWARE I didn t shipped a damaged card, just trust me and we can start resolving this problem from this!
For my explanation of packaging and shipment, I m sure this came from the shipping ! My goal is not to say it s your faut, to start a claim and avoid to refund you, that s not what I m looking for ! I just want you stop making me feel like a lier or something like that.
I m pretty sure if I used a magnetic holder, hard case this would never happened ! and in this point it s my fault because I didn t use it. But don t say I sent you a damaged card, I reiterate : I m an honest person, Check my evaluations on ebay, on this board and other european boards. I can accept refund you or anything else but not your talks about what I m not and didnt do!
It s more about truth then money here !
And finally, I understand you scared loosing your money but dont Be scared I m not a scammer, if you absolutely don t want to keep the card, so send me back and you will have your full refund.
I m just pissed of cause I had a nice card and will have a damaged card now, can you understand that???
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My response:
We are simply gonna have to agree to disagree on how the card got damaged. I'm sorry. I am a logical person, and with all the evidence I have, I just can't allow myself to believe that it was damaged in the mail.
But as far as returning the card goes, why the sudden change of heart? I am bothered by it. Had you offered right away to do the right thing by giving me a full refund, none of this would have happened. But you chose to try to shake me down and get me to accept a $50 refund.
If I was in your position and the situation was reversed, I would have instantly apologized (whether it was my fault or not) and offered a full refund. It's just the right thing to do, especially since you were apparently aware of the potential damage and how easy it is to damage a card in the mail, and you chose not to put it in a one-touch case anyway.
So I will send the card back for a full refund, but I simply cannot at this point just take your word for it and not cover myself. I have to file a claim, leave the appropriate feedback, and get signature confirmation or I could potentially lose the card and the money.
If you want to send the refund voluntarily and BEFORE I send the card back, that will solve everything. And frankly it seems the most honest, good-faith thing you could do. I will gladly ship the card back to you in the one-touch holder at my cost.
So it's up to you at this point.
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His response:
I will refund you tomorrow
I let you know