Video case breaks - you don't really care, do you?

[thekramers5]

Sorry everybody, but with the influx of new members I wanted to raise a topic that was raised awhile ago.

Are you really comforted by a video provided of the group break?? If yes...why?

Here's a link to the prior discussion: http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/group-case-breaks/2491-video-not-video.html

Overall, here's the nutshell - a video only gives a FALSE sense of security because it simply shows the case break that was USED in the break. Unless it is a live streaming video or something along those lines...who cares??? If I'm hosting a break, why wouldn't I buy 3 cases, video each and use the worst one? It's all about reputation...not video.

Lastly, if you are doing a break - list your assumptions/calculations as to how you came up with your price. Case price, est. PayPal (2 to 3%), shipping (and don't "assume" one card per person - use your noggin), supplies. Personally, if I think somebody is trying to make money on the break - I'm steering WAY clear. Don't give the BS that "well, it's a lot of work and the breaker SHOULD make something." There are WAY TOO MANY senior board members on here willing to do these for free. Believe me...as somebody who did 2 Bowman Sterling Baseball breaks (and did not make $0.01 on either, actually lost about $500 on the first), the fun of the break and "love of cards" was well worth my time.

Also, if you actually WATCH the video after the break, I'm worried about you....

A) you must not have kids. If you have kids, they're either in college or neglected.

B) you must not be married. If you are married, you must not be happily married (or your wife is a card fanatic just like you - in which case I'm worried about both of you and your ability to move ahead in life). It's cool...but open cards together, don't watch videos of somebody else opening cards!

C) you have no life. If you are single and in college, or just single working on a career - c'mon, if you can't find something better to do with your time...well, I'm sorry. When I was in college and for every day of my career before I met my wife, all of my free time was spent playing some sort of sports or doing something physical. Maybe it's generation X/Y, but to give up a couple hours of your life to watch something you already know the results...all I can say is Wow!! Movies are different, so don't try that comparison!!

Just my .02.
TK

[iluvfish2]

Can you quality for A (no kids), B (wife does help open), and C (no life)?

Personally I prefer more of the live break version. While I may watch a video, I find reading the results (or looking at the pics) a much better use of my time.

[VinnyH]

Video doesn't do much for me. I like the threads where we post things as they get pulled. The Exquisite Baseball break was great, especially when it was announced that I got the 1/1 case hit. My heart pounded for a few minutes, then we all got a laugh at my Jamie Burke "Hit".

Robert (iluvfish) also had the Topps Update break that was just plain fun to hangout at the computer and see what came up for everyone. It wasn't high end but fit nice in my budget that week.

I may try a break someday on the Stickam site that let's you stream live video. I've been experimenting there to see how reliable it is. I had hoped it would be good for live music but my equipment has a delay between sound and video. That slight delay wouldn't hurt a case break but it's deadly to my guitar playing and singing, which is shaky anyway.

Hey, it keeps me off the streets. :cool:

Best to All,
Vinny

[thekramers5]

Can you quality for A (no kids), B (wife does help open), and C (no life)?

Personally I prefer more of the live break version. While I may watch a video, I find reading the results (or looking at the pics) a much better use of my time.

Oh yes...definitely not an exclusive list!! It's in fun, but I can't imagine EVER having the time to watch a multiple hour video like that...pre-kids, pre-marriage, HEAVY-DRINKING days, light-drinking days. There was ALWAYS something to do - sports-related or female-related...

TK

[mwheeler27]

I have never watched the videos, but I did very much enjoy the exquisite break, box by box, and pictures that were posted right away. That beats the heck out of watching lengthy videos when you already know the outcome.

The only thing I slightly disagree with is posting the case price you got from Chris. I'm not sure how he feels about it, but I don't know if he would like everyone knowing what price he gave you to do the case break. That might make others feel like, "hey, why can't I get the same price?" Of course, we know the answer to this, but does everybody? It might be a small headache for Chris is all I'm saying. If Chris didn't mind, I would love to see what everyone got the cases for. I'd also list what I got mine for when doing a break.

[derek55]

...a video only gives a FALSE sense of security because it simply shows the case break that was USED in the break. Unless it is a live streaming video or something along those lines...who cares??? If I'm hosting a break, why wouldn't I buy 3 cases, video each and use the worst one? It's all about reputation...not video.

The pessimist in me had this thought enter my mind first as soon as I discovered the idea of group case breaks, which by the way I think is a real cool thing. I agree with TK 100% - it's all about reputation and trust. I will not do a group break with somebody I don't trust... that's just me. It's not that I'm worried about losing out on a few dollars, but I'd rather feel like I'm getting an honest chance at a nice card (and participate in a break that almost certainly assures at least one of us will get a cool hit) than have a video of it that TK's implying means nothing.

Here's what break videos do for me: they let me preview the product and see for myself what is being pulled. Then I can judge for myself whether or not I want to crack open a few boxes or a case. I'm telling you, watching Sport Kings breaks saved me thousands (possibly... it also could have cost me) by seeing that busting was a bad idea, whereas buying singles was better for me if not downright profitable.

TK, I totally get your points here and appreciate the insight.

[thekramers5]

Here's what break videos do for me: they let me preview the product and see for myself what is being pulled. Then I can judge for myself whether or not I want to crack open a few boxes or a case.

Now THAT is a great use of the video breaks!

[jacobbigshow]

I honestly don't understand slot breaks at all? Why take away the fun of opening the product and pay for return shipping and ebay fees when you can buy a box yourself for the cost of a few slots?

[derek55]

I honestly don't understand slot breaks at all? Why take away the fun of opening the product and pay for return shipping and ebay fees when you can buy a box yourself for the cost of a few slots?

I wondered this myself until I realized that group breaks provide a nice service for collectors: it allows you the chance to pull a case hit when you "know" one will be pulled (as opposed to buying a box of SPA from someone when you have no idea whether or not all of the auto patches have been pulled from the case, etc). Also, it's fun to root for fellow board members... I haven't participated in a group break yet, but I've watched a few unfold on the forum and I genuinely felt good for those that received a nice hit or two. As far as investing goes, I would buy and bust my own case, but for fun, group breaks serve a good purpose.

[iluvfish2]

I honestly don't understand slot breaks at all? Why take away the fun of opening the product and pay for return shipping and ebay fees when you can buy a box yourself for the cost of a few slots?

For standard "hit" type breaks I agree with you, minus the chance of getting the case hit if your only doing say a box of something, and the participation, really isn't much incentive. I do really like the team breaks. Since everyone tends to have a team you favor, kind of a neat way to get those. Unfortunately with this idea, you know as well as I do, regardless of sport, there are always teams that get more "hits" than some.

[fm8418]

say the exquisite break....you spend 500 or so on a box and could possibly only get $250 back. well you spend $115 on a slot break and you could possibly hit a card that's $500. It's a form of gambling.

Im also scared of buying boxes now on ebay or even a local store. If someone finds a case hit, a lot of the time they will unload the other boxes.

[CaptainBOHICA]

I honestly don't understand slot breaks at all? Why take away the fun of opening the product and pay for return shipping and ebay fees when you can buy a box yourself for the cost of a few slots?

just my 2 cents, but when the original concept of the group breaks were discussed, if i remember correctly, the intent was so that we all can have a shot at the huge hit without having to spend $2k+ for a chance at the same hit. in addition to this, the group would get a nice discount on the case, and it would get the board members involved and feeling good about a hobby that is on a downward spiral....

..and lets face it.. its just another variation on the same gamble that crackin wax is.

[willcvincent]

I think these group case breaks help out everyone, participating or not. Before I started joining them they provided me with information that I could make a educated decision on if I wanted to buy a certain product or not.

After lurking on the group break page for a couple of months I was able to figure out who was reputable. I've had 0 worries about getting ripped off from some of the vets on the MB. I think MB vets do a excellent job of calling out some BS group breaks, which is good. Plus, this is the closest thing I can get to gambling, it is even better than the blackjack table. If you don't get the case hit, you still come away with something.

Will

[rainmanesq]

I think it depends on the videos and your priorities in life. Most people I know (married or not) spend far too much time sitting in front of the tv watching endless reality shows. Personally, I watch maybe 30-60 minutes of tv/month and probably 10 minutes of ‘case break’ videos/month. To me, those married/single people watching the latest 'reality shows' for insane # of hours/night or month is a 'waste of time'/not the definition of 'having a life' in my book. Just b/c you're married or have kids doesn't mean you 'have a life.' To the married/single tv addicts, me watching 10 minutes of 'case break' videos/month may be a 'waste of time.'

If it’s a massive case break/video that goes on and on, I’m probably not watching a video and I’m probably not going to click through 50 pages on any chat thread to read about it. If it's a product I'd never rip, I rarely watch the video/thread 'live break.'

As for why I watch videos, I’m usually not online when someone’s ripping a case ‘live’ and frankly, sorting through 30 pages of ‘box 1, pack 1, card 1’ etc. just doesn’t ‘thrill me’, so I’d rather watch a video (Assuming it’s a SHORT video) and get the ‘quick recap’, usually while I’m doing something else like listing on ebay or sorting cards, so videos break up the tedious part of the card business for me (cards are a FT job, so i rip/ship/sort more than most people). Plus, sometimes watching videos helps me decide if I’d like to rip a box/case of a given product. If I were paying for a case break (esp. a high $ case break/slot), I think having video would make me feel 'safer' about the break. Does that mean case breakers can't/won't cheat? No. However, the idealist in me likes to think if you've been around long enough, you're going to do the right thing when it comes to group breaks.

[Jughead]

I'm not crazy about the tone of the first message of this thread, but nobody else seems to be offended by it, so I should likely get over myself.

For the record, I have never watched a case break in its entirety, not even my own. But I don't think it is bad to do so. You can learn how cards are packed out and I suppose even how packs are boxed out if you know the order in which they opened them.

I think I just overreact when I see a conformist opinion. You're entitled to your opinion of course, and there's no crime in pointing it out. Not everyone is interested in doing physical activities, marrying and having three children, even though it makes you (and millions of others, I might add) quite happy.

I might be overreacting because expressing such an opinion could be detrimental to the industry, because you're discouraging actions that benefit the hobby, assuming watching other people's breaks benefits the hobby.

[Jughead]

I like rainmanesq's comments better. If only I'd known they were going to be posted!

[swjedi2000]

Also, if you actually WATCH the video after the break, I'm worried about you....

A) you must not have kids. If you have kids, they're either in college or neglected.

B) you must not be married. If you are married, you must not be happily married (or your wife is a card fanatic just like you - in which case I'm worried about both of you and your ability to move ahead in life). It's cool...but open cards together, don't watch videos of somebody else opening cards!

C) you have no life. If you are single and in college, or just single working on a career - c'mon, if you can't find something better to do with your time...well, I'm sorry. When I was in college and for every day of my career before I met my wife, all of my free time was spent playing some sort of sports or doing something physical. Maybe it's generation X/Y, but to give up a couple hours of your life to watch something you already know the results...all I can say is Wow!! Movies are different, so don't try that comparison!!

Just my .02.
TK

I just read this today.

Here is what I think:

A. Have a wonderful 17 month son who I love. He is not negletched. My wife and I read to him everyday, encourage him, play with him, teach him, and more to help him grow upto be a healthy boy. We also take the time to feed him 100% organic foods every meal. This takes a lot of time everyday cutting his fruits and veggies, preparing his oatmeal, etc for each meal.

B. I have been happily married for 5 years now. My wife will take part in opening cards if I asked her. She supports me and I support her. She always asks to help package cards or do whatever to help me out. We will be closing on our new house (on our lake) early next month. We both have nice cars, a nice boat, 401ks, IRA accounts, college fund account for our son, and help several charities each year.

C. I enjoy my life. I enjoy my life with my family. We have made many sacrafices in life since having a baby. These are all sacrafices we are happy to make for our family. I'd do anything for them.

Lastly I'd like to say that I do enjoy video box breaks once in a while. I enjoy filming these breaks for others to watch as well. Simple things can make people happy. I feel your comments were a little bid rude to some people. I dont think you were trying to be rude or mean...but it felt that way.

BB

[VinnyH]

our new house (on our lake)

I'm very jealous. :)!

Best Always,
Vinny
PS: WestchesterFishing.com - Home (http://www.WestchesterFishing.com)

[fm8418]

I also felt they were harsh criticisms of people here

[hawaiisean]

I respectfully disagree with thekramers take on video.

You state why not buy 3 cases and pass off the worst to the break via video. Well who the heck has that kind of cash flow to purchase 3 cases of a product. We're talking thousands of dollars to pull something like that off. As a "regular" collector who has hosted breaks I could never do it. Thousands of dollars is probably what I spend in an entire year on cards - not 1 break. Maybe a dealer or a mass seller could do it. but if the person is that shady I imagine their reputation would catch up with them. I don't think most normal people could afford this.

[derek55]

If you do a little research on TK - posts, auctions, etc - you'd know he busts and invests in several cases of multiple products. I know it's hard to believe people can have "that kind of cash flow" in this ecomony, but you'd be surprised. The point is, there are PLENTY of people who can afford to purchase multiple cases... look around here hard enough and you'll come across several members who fit the profile on this forum alone.

I get the comments about the tone of the original post. I don't know TK personally outside of a few business transactions and several polite and helpful e-mails back and forth before discovering he was a member of this forum, so I can't and will not speak for him. However, if anyone feels his criticism was harsh, then so is the backlash over an informative opinion that wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I can see how someone might interpret the latter part of the original post as a knock on a particular lifestyle (ie making and watching break videos), but the overall goal of the post, as I see it, was to raise a discussion on whether or not it's necessary to have a video of a group break considering all of the concerns TK pointed out. You may not like the way it was worded, but why is that the focus all of the sudden? Again, I get that some people can be a little sensitive and rightly so, but I agree with the issues that were raised in this thread. Why is it such a big deal to have video of a group break? The question isn't "Does anybody like watching videos of breaks?" because clearly the answer is yes. The question is "Why is it necessary to video a group break?" I think it's a good question... if the answer is "In order to have 'proof' that the break is legit", let's hear that. If the answer is "I enjoy watching group video breaks (as do I)", let's hear that, too. I happen to agree that it's not necessary, that's all. If I trust you enough to send you money to bust something for me and several others, I don't need video proof of what was pulled. I might enjoy it a little more, but it's not at all mandatory, and that's my take. Just tell me what everyone got... if I want to watch packs open, I'll bust myself. To me, group breaks are good for gambling, camaraderie within the forum, and insuring that you have a chance to pull a case hit without buying a case. Having a video of the break isn't in my personal requirement for participation.

I've watched about 15 five minute break videos in the past couple of months... count me as one of those with a lot of time on my hands... big deal, it's true. How about we discuss whether or not video of breaks is important and not who and if TK offended anyone with his comments. The one thing I do know for sure about TK: he's 100% helpful, 100% loyal to his customers, and 100% fair. I'm positive he didn't mean for any of the regulars here to be hurt by anything in this thread.

[fm8418]

I thought we did videos because we had to for the sponsored brea(if you got a discounted price)....that was the main reason.

[VinnyH]

Videos are a great addition to any break. Some of us look at them more than others. I usually take a quick look for the fun of it. It helps to have them when possible.

Best to All,
Vinny

[thekramers5]

First off...my apologies 100% to anybody offended by the original post. It was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but upon re-reading the post, it didn't appear that way at all. See, I need more time just to review my own posts! Also, to clarify, I'm only referring to the sponsored case breaks.

Derek hit the nail on the head that my main intent was simply to discuss the fact that I believe some get a false sense of security by having a video attached. I have seen several posts like - "is it going to be on video?" Personally, it's just too easy to have a "good video", but bad intentions. For me, if it is Matt Wheeler, Jughead, Karl, VinnyH, etc. (i.e., long-term board members)...I'll take their word 100%, period. Does that make my opinion correct - no. It's just that, my opinion.

I think I've been inflamed since Karl's Sterling break where he got the e-mails saying that it was fake because he wasn't posting scans immediately. Then, we get the e-mail yesterday where the guy drops the f-bomb because he has a dinged corner. This stuff didn't happen as often on this board a few months ago. It just gives me a bad taste about breaks overall, and I think I took it out on that post a little.

It is a great point that some watch the videos to learn about the product. Along those lines, I like the idea posted by somebody that noted if the breaker could do a summary page of the entire break when done - what a great reference tool.

As for what everybody does with their time - I shouldn't judge. This is coming from somebody who has never been into video games because IMHO, I think there are so many better things to do with your time. Again, that's simply my choice. I'm sure my "free time habits" (what little there is with my kids at their age) would be boring to others as well. I'm dating myself, but the last video game I played was Odyssey...when I destroyed my ankle during my freshman baseball season and was on a couch for a week.

Again, sorry for the offensive words, and I didn't mean to draw anbody offsides with the poorly thought out and written comments.

TK

[Brad]

I respectfully disagree with thekramers take on video.

You state why not buy 3 cases and pass off the worst to the break via video. Well who the heck has that kind of cash flow to purchase 3 cases of a product. We're talking thousands of dollars to pull something like that off. As a "regular" collector who has hosted breaks I could never do it. Thousands of dollars is probably what I spend in an entire year on cards - not 1 break. Maybe a dealer or a mass seller could do it. but if the person is that shady I imagine their reputation would catch up with them. I don't think most normal people could afford this.

You don't really have to buy 3 cases. Somone could just buy 1 case and an extra box or two. If you happen to get a monster hit in one of the case boxes, then that video gets deleted and your replacement box becomes the new box # whatever in the case. Since most breaks are broken up into one video per box, this is easily done.

Other than that, I agree with TK on pretty much everything he posted. If you are doing a group break to make yourself $, I won't be a part of it.

[jacobbigshow]

To defend TK what he was bascially saying was that why trust somebody just beacause they are video taping something, while you won't trust somebody who is not going to video tape anything? Unless it is a live feed video breaks are bascially useless cause maybee 1 or 2 people will actually watch it.

[fm8418]

Ive been looking into making mine live. It would make the break go much faster also.

I just need help on webcam to pick up but don't want to spend a ton.

[rainmanesq]

It isn’t about being ‘offended’ by the tone of tk’s message (I only get offended over serious stuff- like oh say the violation of citizens’ rights), but rather was it even necessary to imply people don’t have lives if they tape or watch breaks? If the intent was ‘let’s discuss the necessity or lack of for doing video breaks’, then the question could’ve simply been phrased @ that. no need to ‘rant’ or make judgments about people. Let’s face it- we’re talking about sports cards here people…not exactly the ‘coolest’ thing in life ;)

As for people ‘cheating’ on video breaks, sure, it’s possible. Just like it’s possible for card shop owners (and/or ebay sellers) to ‘search’ cases and sell off the ‘dud boxes’, just like it’s to buy a trimmed card on/off ebay, just like it’s possible to have someone send you a fake MO, etc. Just about anything’s possible, and if someone wants to ‘cheat’, they likely will. No matter how well you think you ‘know’ someone, the reality is, most of us haven’t ‘met’ each other in real life or even ‘talked’ to each other on the phone and sometimes, ‘good guys’ go bad. Personally, I like to think ‘karma’ will take care of people who ‘cheat’ others or who follow a less than kosher moral compass.

Call me an eternal optimist, but I find it odd that the ‘cheating’ issue would even be raised about video breaks here. Sure, it could happen, but I guess I naively thought ‘no need to discuss that- clearly we’re all good guys (and ladies) here.’ Has someone had reason to believe videos have been ‘less than honest?’ Have there been cases of 'dud breaks' and then 'oh wow, look @ that, the leader of the group break is now selling all these amazing pulls from the same product on ebay?'

While having a video won’t ‘prevent’ cheaters, I think videos are useful to provide some measure of ‘faith’ to buyers, just like FB ratings on ebay/naxcom/etc. give buyers ‘some faith’ in sellers. While some may have the ‘cash flow’ (or CC flow) to theoretically buy 3, 5, 10, or 20+ cases of a product and so could theoretically ‘cherry pick’ the video breaks, I doubt that most would go to such lengths.

If you’re doing a ‘live video’ or @ least a video showing ‘here’s the sealed case being opened and here’s each and every pack being opened, it’s probably a little harder to ‘fake’ a break. Then again, if you really want to ‘cheat’, you could just ‘delay the video’ (no idea what it’s called on YT- I don’t make videos) so the video looks ‘kosher. However, I seriously doubt most people have the desire to ‘lie’ about group case breaks. I’d think it would be far more profitable to oh say buy a case of Topps Sterling, pull the ‘good boxes’ and then sell the ‘duds’ on eBay and say ‘really, have no idea what box this is- could be a mantle?’

Also, videos provide ‘fun’ for those of us who like to watch video breaks. Not everyone has the desire or time to hang out on a message board while pack by pack, card by card is listed, so videos provide more of a ‘quick thrill’ and you can watch them when you have free time.

Videos also offer a ‘product review’ element- e.g., if I’m on the fence about busting product X, I can watch a video (or sort through 9450840584 posts…now talk about a timesucker lol) and see if I think the product is ‘worth it’ in terms of resale value. As cards are a FT business for me, my main focus is on ‘resale value/profit potential’ which means I can’t rip all products as some products (Exquisite for ex.) just don’t ‘make sense’ $ return wise to rip. Watching a video let’s me have a ‘vicarious thrill’ so to speak, so I think videos are ‘good’ for that purpose.