Poll: Do you count shipping in valuing your cards?

[Clarkandlewis]

Hey guys,

My friend and I have been having this debate forever. I count shipping in the values of my cards while my friend argues that no one does. For example, I bought a card from japan for 21 plus 10 shipping. Is that a $31 card or $21 card? Also, if you were to see a card for $25 with free shipping, would you pay $25 for the same card with $2 shipping so $27 total?

My friend thinks I'm the only person who counts shipping in my values. Does anyone else??

[holyWahoos]

Oh, so it's a $31 card if it's from Japan but a $21 card if your neighbor is selling it to you? The card can't have two different values based on its location, so no it makes zero sense to include shipping costs in the value of the card.

[Alex52]

Of course, What I pay for the card is what the value is, not what I pay before shipping. If I didn't count it I would be buying everything because its a "Great Deal.."

[WASbalPSU13]

I do. I think that the total price that the buyer pays is the value of the card. Besides, if someone sells a card using free shipping, should we automatically take $2-$3 out so that the bid price isn't so much higher than the other auctions without free shipping? I don't think so.

[89transam]

Hey guys,

My friend and I have been having this debate forever. I count shipping in the values of my cards while my friend argues that no one does. For example, I bought a card from japan for 21 plus 10 shipping. Is that a $31 card or $21 card? Also, if you were to see a card for $25 with free shipping, would you pay $25 for the same card with $2 shipping so $30 total?

My friend thinks I'm the only person who counts shipping in my values. Does anyone else??


where did the extra $3 come from?

if you were to add shipping cost to the value of the card, wouldn't you have to subtract the ebay/paypal fees?
I would say that no, shipping is not a part of card value.

[holyWahoos]

Of course, What I pay for the card is what the value is, not what I pay before shipping. If I didn't count it I would be buying everything because its a "Great Deal.."

If you paid $30 plus $10 for shipping and handling for whatever reason (and assuming that $10 is the actual shipping cost), you can't expect the next person to pay $40 plus shipping for the card, if that was the case, the value of the card would continue to rise according to how many times it was sold and shipped. Doesn't make sense to me, but to each their own, and it's not worth debating about because I can't see a definitive right answer here.

[xbignick]

Oh, so it's a $31 card if it's from Japan but a $21 card if your neighbor is selling it to you? The card can't have two different values based on its location, so no it makes zero sense to include shipping costs in the value of the card.

Thing is, if I'm buying I take shipping into account, so if the shipping wasn't as high maybe someone would have bid $5-$10 more because of the lower or free shipping cost.

[xbignick]

I personally look at delivered prices when I come up with a card value since if they're being sold I'm also paying for delivery. When I bid I look at the shipping cost (who doesn't), so why wouldn't anyone factor it into price if it's a legitimate listing? Different shipping values change the prices people bid.

[Clarkandlewis]

where did the extra $3 come from?

if you were to add shipping cost to the value of the card, wouldn't you have to subtract the ebay/paypal fees?
I would say that no, shipping is not a part of card value.

I meant to say $27

[Clarkandlewis]

I personally look at delivered prices when I come up with a card value since if they're being sold I'm also paying for delivery. When I bid I look at the shipping cost (who doesn't), so why wouldn't anyone factor it into price if it's a legitimate listing? Different shipping values change the prices people bid.

That's exactly what I think, but some people don't count shipping. People can think what they want to think I guess?

[TarjetasBéisbol]

Oh, so it's a $31 card if it's from Japan but a $21 card if your neighbor is selling it to you? The card can't have two different values based on its location, so no it makes zero sense to include shipping costs in the value of the card.

Of course things can have two different values based on location! Many items have more cost throughout the world because of their location.

I do take shipping into account because many sellers also count the shipping as part of the value. You have to take shipping charges into consideration because that is part of your total cost. If you look at cards that are

being shipped from another location many times buyers will not bid on the card because of the cost of shipping. I am sure many of the international members could chime in when it comes to added costs of buying cards.

[gmsieb]

Card value is determined by what the next buyer is willing to pay. The $10 from japan is what you paid to get the card, cause you needed to have it.

I've said it before. One sale on ebay is a market setting price. So if you paid 21, plus 10, all that means, is he valued it at 21 and you valued is at 21, plus were willing to eat 10 to get it from japan. That doesn't mean anyone else is going to pay you 31 for it. In fact, I don't think that ever happens on ebay, not with the thousands of buyers, I have dealt with.

When you buy a stock, the stocks themselves may cost you a grand, but fees may push you to being 1050 in. You have to factor the 50. when considering profit and loss. But no one on the planet views your stock as being worth 1050, because of the fees. Your stocks are worth a grand.

[gmsieb]

Of course things can have two different values based on location! Many items have more cost throughout the world because of their location.

I do take shipping into account because many sellers also count the shipping as part of the value. You have to take shipping charges into consideration because that is part of your total cost. If you look at cards that are

being shipped from another location many times buyers will not bid on the card because of the cost of shipping. I am sure many of the international members could chime in when it comes to added costs of buying cards.

The seller viewed it as a $21 card. I would agree a little, if the shipping cost was US$$$ and the sellers are at 20 plus $4 for shipping or 22 plus $2 for shippng. Then you factor shipping a little, but not when paying for over night express or the extra cost from another country. In the past, when I sell a 1000+ item, I require overnight express, and I wont buy unless its shipped overnight in a 1000+ item. Many times the shipping is split, but that isnt factored into the value/market price for the card. It's the price I will pay or the buyer will pay to make sure of getting the item quickly and safely. If you buy a car for 10g, its worth 10g, not 10g plus all the fees paid to the state. 10g is the value, 10g+ fees is the cost to have the car.

[TarjetasBéisbol]

The seller viewed it as a $21 card.

But I am sure if you were to take a look at the cards that were selling from the U.S. that the card would not be considered a $21 card but a $31 card. I am sure the OP saw the same card listed from U.S. seller for more,

this would be the reason he purchased from a seller in Japan.

[holyWahoos]

The seller viewed it as a $21 card.

Ha exactly it's just a never ending circle of an argument. We just have a different view of what the actual "value" of the card is. I think what he is saying is that international buyers incorporate shipping costs into the value of the card, and therefore are willing to pay less (before shipping cost) than what a US buyer would.

[Tpm2780]

I do count the shipping cost with the value of the card. I figure that it was a part of the transaction in buying the card and in my opinion won't make or break the value if I decide to sell that particular card since the shipping cost usually is pretty reasonable/cheap.

[free2131]

This is actually a really good question.

Personally, I consider the average sell price of an item to be what it's worth, and that does include shipping costs. At the same time, however, I wouldn't expect to pay $23 at the LCS if the reasoning behind the price was that the last one on Ebay sold for $20 plus $3 shipping, since I obviously wouldn't be having it shipped.

[gmsieb]

But I am sure if you were to take a look at the cards that were selling from the U.S. that the card would not be considered a $21 card but a $31 card. I am sure the OP saw the same card listed from U.S. seller for more,

this would be the reason he purchased from a seller in Japan.


A listed price isn't a sales price. You tell me, asa buyer, if you see a sale at 21, you are going to offer me 31, because of shipping. No chance. No buyer on ebay has ever done that. In fact most would make a quick offer at 18.

[rseve43]

Card value is what someone is willing to PAY. In the Japan example with $10 shipping, the buyer pays the card's full value but it wasn't possible for the seller to extract the full value ($31) of the card to put straight into his pocket, because he has to pay the $10 to ship it.

Put it this way, if the Japan seller found a buyer in Japan, he would sell it for $31 to that person.

[TarjetasBéisbol]

A listed price isn't a sales price. You tell me, asa buyer, if you see a sale at 21, you are going to offer me 31, because of shipping. No chance. No buyer on ebay has ever done that. In fact most would make a quick offer at 18.

Not a good way to make an argument.

Agree to disagree.

[marl1220]

Oh, so it's a $31 card if it's from Japan but a $21 card if your neighbor is selling it to you? The card can't have two different values based on its location, so no it makes zero sense to include shipping costs in the value of the card.

Location can everything to do with price/value. A 1993 SP Jeter might get $75 in TX but go for $125 in NY. (prices might not be right but it's just an example).

[Chaddie84]

The value of a card is what someone is willing to pay to receive the card, which would include shipping costs in many cases.

[StraWMyerS]

Of course you count shipping, if your comparing prices of buying something locally at retail (w/tax included of course), vs. online w/ shipping, you are going to compare total cost I imagine. Therefore the price I pay for a card(or any item) is what it is worth to me, whether it is 1.00 + 49 shipping, 45 + 5.00 shipping, or 50 with free shipping, its all the same.

[shrevecity]

When bidding I include the shipping in my max bid. If I am willing to pay 20.00 for a card and it has 3.00 shipping my max bid will be 17.00 if it has free shipping my max bid will be 20.00.

[centereacan06]

In your case, no. If it was a $31 card, it would've sold for $31 + $10 shipping.

[Lastminute73]

the way your explaining it no. Just because you decided to buy a card on the other side of the world doesn't mean its worth more. but on average you can add $2 to the card value for shipping costs, just not $10

[dhcollecting]

It depends because if its buy it now $40 and they sell for $40 in the US and you really need it enough to pay $10 shipping from japan, then the value to you is $50.

Now lets say this was an auction, Japan guy charging $10 shipping and US guy offering free shipping. The japan auction will mostly likely end at $30 while the US auction will end at $40. That's the way most, including myself, would bid on an auction like this.

[SaveMeTheGum]

The value is only what someone else is willing to buy it from you for. Otherwise "value" is a meaningless label you give the card and it doesn't matter. What if you bought a card for $21 + $10 shipping and the guy was a AAA backup. Then he wins a starting spot on the team in spring training. Would you still "value" the card at $31?

[gmsieb]

The value is only what someone else is willing to buy it from you for. Otherwise "value" is a meaningless label you give the card and it doesn't matter. What if you bought a card for $21 + $10 shipping and the guy was a AAA backup. Then he wins a starting spot on the team in spring training. Would you still "value" the card at $31?


LOL when/if the card goes up to selling for 50, his will be worth 60, because of the shipping he paid.

[nmculbreth]

The value of a card is completely independent of shipping cost - a card with a fair market value of $10 is still only worth $10, even if it cost you an additional $5 in shipping.

That said it's still a good idea to keep track of the total cost basis (purchase price + shipping / other acquisition costs) to get an idea of how much money you're really making flipping.

[mcgoo2]

I consider shipping a cost of doing business in a larger market, not an additional value of the card. It isn't like the seller is getting the money for personal use. I can still go down to the local shop and try to avoid shipping but I am dealing with fewer potential buyers.

[mnvikingstwins]

Yep, unless someone else wants to pay shipping costs on anything I buy then I'll just consider the selling value without shipping.

[jewcer2k5]

I put yes but the question is misleading and not really straight forward. The "value" of the card is still just the card. The cost and total investment has to include shipping. Meaning, if you buy a card for 10 dlvd but sell it for 9 at a show you lost money. That seems like commen sense. If you sell it for 12 dlvd, you still barely broke even b/c shipping then comes out of the total sales price.

While your gross might be positive, I only count Net prices when looking at my spreadsheets.

[Clarkandlewis]

I put yes but the question is misleading and not really straight forward. The "value" of the card is still just the card. The cost and total investment has to include shipping. Meaning, if you buy a card for 10 dlvd but sell it for 9 at a show you lost money. That seems like commen sense. If you sell it for 12 dlvd, you still barely broke even b/c shipping then comes out of the total sales price.

While your gross might be positive, I only count Net prices when looking at my spreadsheets.

I can see how it's misleading I meant if I were to trade a card that sold for $25 plus $2 shipping is the value $25 or $27

[markinca]

For those of you who don't include shipping when determining value, I assume you'll buy all of my cheap jersey cards? I'll give em to you for free! Plus $4 shipping per card.

[hundley]

For whatever it's worth, comc actually agrees with you, their price history feature reflects the shipping cost the user paid for that particular card, so if someone buys a card for a dollar on the site, spends three bucks to have that specific card shipped, the sales history on the card will say four bucks. I agree with this logic as well, personally, it's what someone has ultimately paid for possession of the card. How much money the middlemen extracted from the deal apparently didn't really change what that person was willing to pay for it if the deal went through.

[nmculbreth]

For those of you who don't include shipping when determining value, I assume you'll buy all of my cheap jersey cards? I'll give em to you for free! Plus $4 shipping per card.

You're conflating value and cost. While many people (myself included) lump in the price of the card and the price of shipping when determining what they're willing to pay for a card, shipping doesn't add value. Put another way buying a $10 card and paying $5 for shipping doesn't make it $15 card.

[mcgoo2]

For those of you who don't include shipping when determining value, I assume you'll buy all of my cheap jersey cards? I'll give em to you for free! Plus $4 shipping per card.

And if we were neighbors, could I come over and get those cards for free? It's just a matter of semantics but, I consider the "value" what the physical card is worth without overhead costs. Shipping should certainly be considered when considering overall price.

Edit: nmculbreth beat me to the punch...

[centereacan06]

Plus, if you sell the card after you buy it, the shipping costs you paid and the shipping payment you receive when you sell cancel out, leaving you with the true value of the card.

[jewcer2k5]

Well not exactly true BC you have to pay to ship it. Like u said above, value and cost when it comes to profits and margins are totally different. The value is the value paid for the card. The investment includes shipping. It all dpeenss on what you are trying to track.

Plus, if you sell the card after you buy it, the shipping costs you paid and the shipping payment you receive when you sell cancel out, leaving you with the true value of the card.

[nera20]

its money you are spending so it counts

[Swipe79]

When I bid, I factor in shipping cost. You are paying the TOTAL COST to have the card shipped to you - at least until someone figures out how to magic cards across the country for no charge.

[Fastbird]

No. Shipping is a separate cost attached to the transaction, not the value of the card itself. Are people going to start paying for overnight shipping simply to inflate the values of their cards? No. Shipping is shipping and a part of most transactions made over the internet. It has nothing to do with the sale price or value of a card.

[Ray27Ray52]

When I purchase an item I consider the cost of shipping as to what I paid for the card.

Conversely, when I am going to sell a card I do not factor the shipping costs when calculating an average sales value.

[markinca]

And if we were neighbors, could I come over and get those cards for free? It's just a matter of semantics but, I consider the "value" what the physical card is worth without overhead costs. Shipping should certainly be considered when considering overall price.

Edit: nmculbreth beat me to the punch...

Well if we were neighbors, of course you would come over and get the cards for free. Here's what I think the main issue of this thread is:

Say there's a card you want, and you're willing to spend $5 on it.

Seller A is the local LCS charging $5.
Seller B is charging $1 plus $4 shipping.
Seller C is charging $5 plus $2 shipping.

Isn't buying from seller A or B the exact same thing? You wouldn't possibly consider the card to be worth $1 if you bought it from seller B, would you?

Likewise, would you consider buying from seller A or C the same thing? Obviously not, since buying it from seller C implies that the card is actually worth $7 to you.

[SpastikMooss]

Well if we were neighbors, of course you would come over and get the cards for free. Here's what I think the main issue of this thread is:

Say there's a card you want, and you're willing to spend $5 on it.

Seller A is the local LCS charging $5.
Seller B is charging $1 plus $4 shipping.
Seller C is charging $5 plus $2 shipping.

Isn't buying from seller A or B the exact same thing? You wouldn't possibly consider the card to be worth $1 if you bought it from seller B, would you?

Likewise, would you consider buying from seller A or C the same thing? Obviously not, since buying it from seller C implies that the card is actually worth $7 to you.

Exactly.

I always count shipping because A and B. If I'm willing to pay $20 for a card, then I'll pay $20 free shipping or $15 + $5 shipping or whatever as long as I get it for $20.

If I later try to sell it I'd like to get the full $20 I spent of course, which can be tough because if it's online you're looking for $20 + shipping. So I either sell it for what I bought it for and eat the fees (so the buyer still gets the card at the true value) or I trade it usually. Just because fees give me like $18 instead of $20 doesn't mean the card isn't still valued at $20

[asujbl]

When I purchase an item I consider the cost of shipping as to what I paid for the card.

Conversely, when I am going to sell a card I do not factor the shipping costs when calculating an average sales value.

Yep.

If I pay $25 for a card (and part of that is $3 to ship) than I paid $25 for it when I track it in my budget.

If I sell the same card I would calculate the average at $22 (if others sold for that) and I just factor shipping into my than list price which would probably be like $20 to $23 to avoid eBay.

People make it way too complicated.

[Kane1]

I don't see adding S&H cost part of the value of the card. I see S&H cost as an issue to deal with my budget. :rolleyes:

[MNCards]

I absolutely include the price of shipping as part of the price of anything I buy. If it is money out of my pocket, I consider it part of the cost.

[kevinh1919]

Card value - no

Purchase price - yes