Masahiro Tanaka Signs With the Yankees!

[Jaypers]

Just reported by Ken Rosenthal. 7 years, $155M, opt out after 4th year.

[tsnider45]

Jesus Christ.

[SethMurphy]

this makes me so happy...... i don't know why, but I like this more than Beltran, McCann, Roberts, Johnson and the rest of the offseason combined

[mangia1976]

Yessssssssssssssss!!! The rich get richer, gotta love 'Merica.

We needed a SP in the worst way-- hell, if he can manage to be a #3 starter i'll be happy.

[excel_b]

Mr Cano,

Thank you for accepting that monsterous contract in Northwest Pacific. I love NYC!

Best regards,
Mr Tanaka

[Jaypers]

Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka
By Steve Adams [January 22 at 8:42am CST]
The Yankees will sign Masahiro Tanaka to a massive seven-year, $155MM contract that contains an opt-out after the fourth season, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Tanaka is represented by Excel Sports Management.

[premium1981]

Any other Yankee haters like this signing? Big money at a question mark. Its not like they are winning anything anytime soon.

[Keyser Soze]

Crap.



(10 characters)

[Jaypers]

I'm going to be staying on the Bowman team's asses to get this kid an auto in Bowman, FWIW.

You gotta figure his base autos will fetch three figures out of the gate.

[AwesomeJuice]

Booooo. Have fun with 3rd place. If you went to the cubs you could be in... Maybe 4th...? (Sigh)

[fulltritty]

Woo Hoo! The Yankees season is saved! :)!

[mangia1976]

Mr Cano,

Thank you for accepting that monsterous contract in Northwest Pacific. I love NYC!

Best regards,
Mr Tanaka

haha, so true. Sionara Cano!! enjoy your Starbucks 1/2 cafe latte, pearl jam on vinyl, and being an entire country away from your family. Hope you're happy.

[holyWahoos]

Any other Yankee haters like this signing? Big money at a question mark. Its not like they are winning anything anytime soon.

I mean it could be a money hole but that doesn't change the fact I wish he was on my team.

[SethMurphy]

I'm going to be staying on the Bowman team's asses to get this kid an auto in Bowman, FWIW.

You gotta figure his base autos will fetch three figures out of the gate.

he definitely needs it, first rookie auto right out of the gate

[Copeskey45]

I'm actually not surprised by this. Somehow, the Yankees always end up getting the big name guys. I wonder how much the Cubs bid.

[mgugs46]

What is going to be hilarious is if he has any success, he will gouge the Yankees for even more money after the 4th year.

Terrible deal imo. $175m invested in a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in mlb.

[Nyfancam01]

Whooooooo GO YANKEES!!!!

[texgator]

What is going to be hilarious is if he has any success, he will gouge the Yankees for even more money after the 4th year.

Terrible deal imo. $175m invested in a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in mlb.

I don't know how the deal is structured, but its "only" $100 million if he opts out. LOLZ.

[armyatc22]

Yankees trying to buy a Championship again

SMDH

[superjames27]

Poor cubs , oh well there is always matt garza again lol

[fulltritty]

Yankees trying to buy a Championship again

SMDH


So what are the Dodgers doing the last 2 years with all of the money they have been throwing around? :mad:

[phabphour20]

Now I hope he fails. Any other team in baseball and I would have hoped to see the next Darvish. Now I want him to be the next Kei Igawa.

[mgugs46]

I don't know how the deal is structured, but its "only" $100 million if he opts out. LOLZ.

He won't opt out unless he's doing well. Like Arod did, CC did - do well, opt out, demand more $$

[dbacksfan4life]

Wow.........

[YanksBillsFan]

Yes! They needed this signing more than ever. Good deal for Tanaka to get an opportunity for another contract at a good age.

I hope we hear others teams' offers. Curious to hear how all this played out. Welcome to NY!!

[jmscoggin]

Any other Yankee haters like this signing? Big money at a question mark. Its not like they are winning anything anytime soon.

As an Angels fan I do for a few reasons. First, Arte for once kept his wallet in his pocket with a huge risky signing. Second, these contracts almost always go bad and as much as I hate the Yankees I hope that trend continues. The last few have been by the Angels so I'm thrilled they somehow passed on Cano and Tanaka. That is just riduculous money for an unknown. That is more than Greinke who has the same projection but he actually has proven that he can do it. Just boggles my mind.

[Jake128387]

God i hate the yankees

[discostu]

So much for the Cubs putting up a bid that was going to blow everyone else out of the water. I find it hard to believe that the Cubs would have went to at least $25m/year.

I blame ARod for this signing.

Well...and Topps. And quite possibly Leaf. Maybe even Sasquatch too.

[Stevepeters298]

Thats alot of $$ for a guy who has never thrown a major league pitch....

[texgator]

He won't opt out unless he's doing well. Like Arod did, CC did - do well, opt out, demand more $$

Riiiiight....and that changes my point in what way, exactly?

[texgator]

So much for the Cubs putting up a bid that was going to blow everyone else out of the water. I find it hard to believe that the Cubs would have went to at least $25m/year.

I blame ARod for this signing.

Well...and Topps. And quite possibly Leaf. Maybe even Sasquatch too.

For all we know they did offer more money but Tanaka preferred NY to CHI.

[gonzagacubs]

Shout out to the Ricketts family and Theo for making the Cubs franchise a joke! Hope that pants less bear works out well for us. Wrigley is going to be a ghost town once again this year. FML!

[VeedonFleece]

I think the Yankees might win more games than last year now.

[chezball]

Too much $$$$$ for someone unproven,105 Mil for 7 years should have been the #.
Also all the the innings on his arm,he might be seeing Dr. Andrews before the opt year.

[phillyfan0417]

What is going to be hilarious is if he has any success, he will gouge the Yankees for even more money after the 4th year.

Terrible deal imo. $175m invested in a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in mlb.

They are paying him DOUBLE what Darvish is making and i havent heard a scout yet who said he was a superior talent. I understand it was under a different system but its sheer lunacy...

[holyWahoos]

They added Beltran, Ellsbury, McCann and Tanaka. They should be competitive. Obviously a pretty big hole at second and third, though.

[fulltritty]

I wonder if he has a contract from Steiner in his agents hand already? :D

[fulltritty]

They added Beltran, Ellsbury, McCann and Tanaka. They should be competitive. Obviously a pretty big hole at second and third, though.

Yeah, I would have felt a little better if they had gone after Infante a little harder and brought him to New York.

[stera8]

Woot woot :)

Welcome

[festus]

I'm going to be staying on the Bowman team's asses to get this kid an auto in Bowman, FWIW.

You gotta figure his base autos will fetch three figures out of the gate.


ok, they threw darvish in bowman BUT while they had plenty of time they held cespedes & puig for bowman chrome. orders are in for bowman so why would topps put him in bowman when they can sell the sh!t out of bowman chrome like they did last year with puig??

[jaredw]

They are paying him DOUBLE what Darvish is making and i havent heard a scout yet who said he was a superior talent. I understand it was under a different system but its sheer lunacy...

Sure Tanaka is making double what Darvish is, but the Rangers basically paid $107 million for 6 years. If Tanaka can put up slightly similar numbers for the Yankees, and win a World Series, it would be worth every penny to the Yankees organization.

The Yankees can afford pay a player more than "market value" because there is no doubt in my mind that behind Jeter, Tanaka will be the most marketable Yankee in recent memory. The Yankees will get a significant percentage back from their investment just from merchandise that has Tanaka's name and number on it.

[TheAntiCard]

So much for the Cubs putting up a bid that was going to blow everyone else out of the water. I find it hard to believe that the Cubs would have went to at least $25m/year.

I blame ARod for this signing.

Well...and Topps. And quite possibly Leaf. Maybe even Sasquatch too.

But Sasquatch is dead now.

[shortking98]

This signing now puts the Yankees distinctly over the luxury tax limit of $189M. As such, it wouldn't surprise me to see them sign another pitcher and Stephen Drew to big money now that the luxury tax is not in play.

[mgugs46]

Sure Tanaka is making double what Darvish is, but the Rangers basically paid $107 million for 6 years. If Tanaka can put up slightly similar numbers for the Yankees, and win a World Series, it would be worth every penny to the Yankees organization.

The Yankees can afford pay a player more than "market value" because there is no doubt in my mind that behind Jeter, Tanaka will be the most marketable Yankee in recent memory. The Yankees will get a significant percentage back from their investment just from merchandise that has Tanaka's name and number on it.

That's a pretty big if.

[texgator]

The Yankees will get a significant percentage back from their investment just from merchandise that has Tanaka's name and number on it.

False....MLB merchandising is spread out across the league. The only thing the Yankees can bank on is in-stadium advertising from Japanese companies and gameday merchandising. Neither of which is likely to be a "significant perdentage" of this deal.

[texgator]

This signing now puts the Yankees distinctly over the luxury tax limit of $189M. As such, it wouldn't surprise me to see them sign another pitcher and Stephen Drew to big money now that the luxury tax is not in play.

And pay a 50% tax on each signing? I doubt it.

[bubbs11]

Disregard!

[Jaypers]

ok, they threw darvish in bowman BUT while they had plenty of time they held cespedes & puig for bowman chrome. orders are in for bowman so why would topps put him in bowman when they can sell the sh!t out of bowman chrome like they did last year with puig??

Puig did have a Mystery redemption in Bowman, which fetched four figures shortly after the announcement.

As Tanaka won't see any time in the minors, very good chance he'll be one as well this year.

[discostu]

They are paying him DOUBLE what Darvish is making and i havent heard a scout yet who said he was a superior talent. I understand it was under a different system but its sheer lunacy...

That's the beauty of a dry starting pitcher market.

And actually, with the posting fee...it's $175m/7 years ($25m/year), whereas the Darvish deal is a mere $55/6 years ($9.16m/year) so it's closer to three times as much than two times.

But the kicker is "i havent heard a scout yet who said he was a superior talent" but after the Kershaw deal...big time pitcher money is here again apparently. All indications were that this type of money was coming for Tanaka, but you totally nailed it with the quote above.

[vwnut13]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tYr2o6tIFqY/Ut_hUpWL50I/AAAAAAAABg8/cAgFqZPoOk4/s640/tanaka.JPG

[texgator]

That's the beauty of a dry starting pitcher market.

And actually, with the posting fee...it's $175m/7 years ($25m/year), whereas the Darvish deal is a mere $55/6 years ($9.16m/year) so it's closer to three times as much than two times.

But the kicker is "i havent heard a scout yet who said he was a superior talent" but after the Kershaw deal...big time pitcher money is here again apparently. All indications were that this type of money was coming for Tanaka, but you totally nailed it with the quote above.

Why are you counting the posting fee in Tanaka's deal but leaving it out in Darvish's? Darvish was around 105 for 6 when you include the posting fee.

[groundsupport]

Tanaka is one smart man.

[VeedonFleece]

That's the beauty of a dry starting pitcher market.

And actually, with the posting fee...it's $175m/7 years ($25m/year), whereas the Darvish deal is a mere $55/6 years ($9.16m/year) so it's closer to three times as much than two times.

But the kicker is "i havent heard a scout yet who said he was a superior talent" but after the Kershaw deal...big time pitcher money is here again apparently. All indications were that this type of money was coming for Tanaka, but you totally nailed it with the quote above.

You can't add the posting fee to one but not the other. That said, the Rangers obviously have the better pitcher at a better price.

[slugger82685]

3rd place is now for the Yankees to take!

[shortking98]

And pay a 50% tax on each signing? I doubt it.

According to cots contracts they were at $228M last year so I don't think they will care about blowing past $200M again now that the luxury tax limit is not in play. If they could afford to pay 50% on that kind of overage last year (and several previous years for that matter) I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to afford to this season.

[texgator]

According to cots contracts they were at $228M last year so I don't think they will care about blowing past $200M again now that the luxury tax limit is not in play. If they could afford to pay 50% on that kind of overage last year (and several previous years for that matter) I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to afford to this season.

They weren't paying that penalty last year. The way the Luxury Tax system works you get a higher penatly for consecutive years over the cap. The Yankees wanted to get under the cap this year to avoid the highest tax rate. This would be the most any team has ever had to pay under the new system.

[texgator]

You can't add the posting fee to one but not the other. That said, the Rangers obviously have the better pitcher at a better price.

No doubt....but that doesn't mean, necessarily, that this is a bad deal for the Yanks. I think Tanaka will be a darn fine pitcher in MLB for several years. I want to see how backloaded this contract is before determining if the Yankees got hosed.

[shortking98]

They weren't paying that penalty last year. The way the Luxury Tax system works you get a higher penatly for consecutive years over the cap. The Yankees wanted to get under the cap this year to avoid the highest tax rate. This would be the most any team has ever had to pay under the new system.

They were still at 50% last year. The reason they wanted to get under this year was to reset it down to a lower level. Obviously they isn't going to happen anymore but it won't rise. 50% is the max right now and they already hit it last year. Here is a link for a little background on them last year:
New York Yankees hit with $28M luxury tax - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10154043/new-york-yankees-hit-28m-luxury-tax)

[jmscoggin]

They weren't paying that penalty last year. The way the Luxury Tax system works you get a higher penatly for consecutive years over the cap. The Yankees wanted to get under the cap this year to avoid the highest tax rate. This would be the most any team has ever had to pay under the new system.

It would have also reset if they could have gone under. This is a very big deal even with the Yankees huge pockets. I do admire them for choosing to win instead of maximizing profit. I just disagree that spending big equals championships. That has been proven wrong time after time. The sheer irony of the Yankees hoping for A-rod to get suspended so they could get out from under a large portion of his stupid and massive contract just to put that money into another stupid and massive contract is amusing to me. Sadly my Angels have the same mindset and that isn't so amusing to me. :(

[GB5HOF]

Hopefully for the rest of the AL he turns out to be another Dice K...

[ravensgc_5]

That is a massive contract for someone who has never thrown a pitch in MLB. Considering NY's history with signing international pitching this seems like a horrible decision but the Yankees love trying to buy a championship.

[texgator]

I do admire them for choosing to win instead of maximizing profit. I just disagree that spending big equals championships. That has been proven wrong time after time.
Funny enough...it used to be at least a little bit true....but in the last few years its gotten less true.

The Real Market Inefficiency | FanGraphs Baseball (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-real-market-inefficiency/)

The connection between salary expense and winning has gotten more disconnected over the last 15 years.

[Andrew Jones]

That's crazy iMac money. But the Yankees badly needed pitching so it's hardly shocking.

[mangia1976]

Puig did have a Mystery redemption in Bowman, which fetched four figures shortly after the announcement.

As Tanaka won't see any time in the minors, very good chance he'll be one as well this year.

True, didn't even think of that-- that would be a great move by Topps.

JP- when did you say your top 100 was coming out?

[Truemountaineer]

Yessssssssssssss!!! Finally some good news for me :) go yankees

[NeedChapmans]

They were still at 50% last year. The reason they wanted to get under this year was to reset it down to a lower level. Obviously they isn't going to happen anymore but it won't rise. 50% is the max right now and they already hit it last year. Here is a link for a little background on them last year:
New York Yankees hit with $28M luxury tax - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10154043/new-york-yankees-hit-28m-luxury-tax)

To that end, only the Yankees and the Dodgers paid luxury taxes in 2013 (and only the Yankees of those two teams paid in 2012).

So look at it this way. Without Rodgriguez on the books this year, the Yankees had the chance to beat the tax (stay under $189M payroll) and reduce their LT (Luxury Tax) rate from 50%, all the way down to 17.5% for 2014 if they choose to again go over the limit. Had they chosen to grab a couple of loose SP options for the season, this may have been accomplished.

However, w/ Tanaka, there's no chance of that, thus this contract actually costs NYY a lot more than just the $175M. When you tack on Rodriguez' contract for the next three years, and then add in all of the moves they've made the past three months, the Yankees have 0% chance of staying competitive and under the tax threshold until 2018 at the very minimum.

Quick example, let's say the Yankees have a payroll of $210M this year and $225M the following three years. That puts them $21M over the limit in 2014 and $36M over the limit for 2015-2017, which would cost them a total tax of $64.5 million over four years. Had the Yankees passed on Tanaka this year, but offered that same contract to someone next year, they would have avoided the luxury tax this season and then only paid amounts of 17.5%, 30% and 40% in 2015 thru 2017 for a total tax of $31.5M

Thus this very signing will likely cost the Yankees at least another $33 million in added Luxury Tax over the next four years.

[Cactuspies]

yankx must have imac type money huh? it never ends!

[texgator]

So look at it this way. Without Rodgriguez on the books this year, the Yankees had the chance to beat the tax (stay under $189M payroll) and reduce their LT (Luxury Tax) rate from 50%, all the way down to 17.5% for 2014 if they choose to again go over the limit.
Actually, a team has to be around $177M in salary to be under the tax rate because MLB includes benefits in the payroll number. The Yanks were right around that number before Tanaka, so really ANY acquisition would have pushed them over.

[NeedChapmans]

Actually, a team has to be around $177M in salary to be under the tax rate because MLB includes benefits in the payroll number. The Yanks were right around that number before Tanaka, so really ANY acquisition would have pushed them over.

Yanks were only at $181 and change before this signing w/ Benefits. They could have found an SP or two for under $8 million a year that would have kept them under.

But they're they Yankees. And they just paid Tanaka what the Dodgers paid Kershaw.

[texgator]

They could have found an SP or two for under $8 million a year that would have kept them under.
Not anybody that would have actually helped them. What the heck does $8M per get you in the starting pitcher market these days? Replacement level or worse, most likely.

[pskell02]

One of my favorite Pirate writers put this together. Going to drop this here and leave it at that.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii242/pskell02/14796_684825851567731_273923872_n_zps8555ba10.jpg (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/pskell02/media/14796_684825851567731_273923872_n_zps8555ba10.jpg.html)

[jmscoggin]

But they're they Yankees. And they just paid Tanaka what the Dodgers paid Kershaw.

When you put it like that ................. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. What's next, Tuffy Rhodes signing a Pujolsish contract? Kid is supposed to be good no doubt but that is just stupid money for what amounts to a minor leaguer.

[stera8]

I love people that hate the yankees for "buying a championship". If every team had as much money as the yankees, they would be as well.

Why did the Mariners give Cano so much money? Well, it's not because of his smile
Why did Kershaw get a nice deal from the Dodgers? Well, it's not because of his charitable work.

As we all know, championships are not won by how much money a team has spent. However, if your favorite team had as much money as the Yankees and you believe they wouldn't spend the money to try... I panda lol emoticon you. :special:

[ALBASKETBALL]

Beep Beep Beep Beep
http://truckersdispatchhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/dump-truck-cash-300x221.jpg

[hohlernr]

Tanaka is one smart man! Take the big contract and have the whole month of October off!

[NeedChapmans]

You break down the Yankees payroll the next few years, and it's flat out disgusting.

Rodriguez until 2017 - $27.5 million a season
Sabathia until 2016 - $25 million a season
Teixeira until 2016 - $22.5 million a season
Tanaka until 2020 - $22.5 million a season
Ellsbury until 2020 - $21.8 million a season
McCann until 2018 - $17.5 million a season
Beltran until 2016 - $15.0 million a season

That's $151.7M for seven players, not one of them in their prime (Tanaka possibly exception.)

Yuck.

[rob11nats]

I think I remember reading a fairly recent study (maybe 2012 or so?) that said that the price of 1 WAR on the free agent market costs about $6.5 million per year. So if you're including the $20m posting fee and assuming the $155 million is spread evenly over the 7 years of the contract (which I believe is what the MLB does for payroll calculations anyway) Tanaka has to be worth 4 WAR each year to "earn" his contract. I'm not a Yankees fan, and I've never seen Tanaka pitch, but given what I've read about him, that seems totally plausible.

[21Pittsburgh58]

Anyone who hates this signing now and ends up pulling a BC color auto will end up saying thank you Yankees when it sells for big bucks (IMO).

Are you TRULY surprised at this signing? The Yankees have thrown away more money than some teams entire payroll.

[Jaypers]

True, didn't even think of that-- that would be a great move by Topps.

JP- when did you say your top 100 was coming out?

Before month's end. And Tanaka, being rookie eligible, will be on it.

[xbignick]

Taking even optimistic Tanaka projections and the other details (money aside from contracts) looking at the names they signed/extended, with the money they spent....not a fan of the Yankees off-season at all.

[rob11nats]

Found the study: How Much Does a Win Really Cost? - Beyond the Box Score (http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/10/15/4818740/how-much-does-a-win-really-cost). It's actually $7 mil per WAR per year, so if Tanaka can be worth 4 WAR a year to the Yankees they actually got a deal.

[jmscoggin]

Anyone who hates this signing now and ends up pulling a BC color auto will end up saying thank you Yankees when it sells for big bucks (IMO).


Sad but 100% true. I hope I end up with this situation. :devil:

[texgator]

I think I remember reading a fairly recent study (maybe 2012 or so?) that said that the price of 1 WAR on the free agent market costs about $6.5 million per year. So if you're including the $20m posting fee and assuming the $155 million is spread evenly over the 7 years of the contract (which I believe is what the MLB does for payroll calculations anyway) Tanaka has to be worth 4 WAR each year to "earn" his contract. I'm not a Yankees fan, and I've never seen Tanaka pitch, but given what I've read about him, that seems totally plausible.

There were 21 pitchers with 4 WAR or more last year. So he would have to be in the top 20 every year for the next 4 to make the contract JUST a decent deal. And you aren't even counting the amount of money he is costing the Yankees in luxury tax. Tanaka's most common comparable is Kuroda who had a 3.8 WAR season in 2013 and was only over 4 once in his MLB career.

[Nickclark1988]

Can everyone shut up about the money aspect of it please. Money is not an issue with the Yankees, believe me. You can certainly dislike the deal because he's unproven but not by what he's getting paid.

They are also much improved from last year. It would be nice to get a rational and logical mind on this board once in awhile. Not just Yankee bashers and jealous people who support a small market team who wished they had a McCann or Beltran....

[metsfan05]

What is going to be hilarious is if he has any success, he will gouge the Yankees for even more money after the 4th year.

Terrible deal imo. $175m invested in a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in mlb.

I agree how can you give a pitcher or even a player who never played a MLB game. Do I need to remind people of the fat toad as the boss would have said

[texgator]

Can everyone shut up about the money aspect of it please.
No......money is an issue for everyone. $175M spent here is $175M they won't be spending elsewhere. You are free to disregard all the posts you want....or this whole thread, I guess.

[Bradforddorman]

I love this move, and feel even better about a friendly bet I have with someone that the yankees finish above .500 next season.

[texgator]

I love this move, and feel even better about a friendly bet I have with someone that the yankees finish above .500 next season.

You are basically betting that the oldest team in the league will remain relatively injury free. Good luck with all that.

[metsfan05]

If you think about it they spend at the most 175m with the posting fee that's crazy just think what David price is going to get

[Bradforddorman]

You are basically betting that the oldest team in the league will remain relatively injury free. Good luck with all that.

They finished above .500 last year, and were plagued by injuries. They are significantly better this year.

[King23dog]

NOOOOO :( damnit cubs...

[texgator]

They finished above .500 last year, and were plagued by injuries. They are significantly better this year.

You realize that Beltran & McCann basically make up for the lost Cano production. So you are basically hoping that Ellsbury is such a huge improvement over Granderson that it pushes the team to new heights. Yeah...good luck with that.

[xbignick]

Whole part of taking advantage of International markets is to sign deals where there's upside on value, the upside here is they get market with no strings attached. This won't be another Darvish value-wise.

And there's an opt-out clause. So if he has tremendous success they're likely going to pay him more. Safety net for his value, none for them.

[shortking98]

Can everyone shut up about the money aspect of it please. Money is not an issue with the Yankees, believe me. You can certainly dislike the deal because he's unproven but not by what he's getting paid.

They are also much improved from last year. It would be nice to get a rational and logical mind on this board once in awhile. Not just Yankee bashers and jealous people who support a small market team who wished they had a McCann or Beltran....

This is a highly debatable statement. Here is a broad based summary of their offseason that does not show a vast improvement to me, looks more like a break even.

Additions:
Jacoby Ellsbury - 5.8 WAR
Carlos Beltran - 2.4 WAR
Brian McCann - 2.2 WAR
Masahiro Tanaka - ?? WAR

Total Additions: 10.4 WAR (plus Tanaka)

Subtractions:

Robinson Cano - 7.6 WAR
Mariano Rivera - 2.5 WAR
Andy Pettite - 2.5 WAR
Curtis Granderson - 1.1 WAR

Total Subtractions: 13.7 WAR

[texgator]

Whole part of taking advantage of International markets is to sign deals where there's upside on value, the upside here is they get market with no strings attached. This won't be another Darvish value-wise.

And there's an opt-out clause. So if he has tremendous success they're likely going to pay him more. Safety net for his value, none for them.

Correct....the Yankees absorb all the risk in this deal with little to no upside value-wise. With the new posting system in place this is the new norm for high profile Asian players. They can now negotiate their deals from a position of strength. No way Tanaka gets an opt out clause if he was posted last year.

[texgator]

This is a highly debatable statement. Here is a broad based summary of their offseason that does not show a vast improvement to me, looks more like a break even.

Additions:
Jacoby Ellsbury - 5.8 WAR
Carlos Beltran - 2.4 WAR
Brian McCann - 2.2 WAR
Masahiro Tanaka - ?? WAR

Total Additions: 10.4 WAR (plus Tanaka)

Subtractions:

Robinson Cano - 7.6 WAR
Mariano Rivera - 2.5 WAR
Andy Pettite - 2.5 WAR
Curtis Granderson - 1.1 WAR

Total Subtractions: 13.7 WAR

Say Tanaka is 4 WAR...which is being really nice. That means they are slightly better than last year....UNLESS they are incredibly lucky with injuries. Not to mention that the Yankees record last year was actually BETTER than their advance stats...meaning they were lucky to be over .500 considering their roster.

[Bradforddorman]

You realize that Beltran & McCann basically make up for the lost Cano production. So you are basically hoping that Ellsbury is such a huge improvement over Granderson that it pushes the team to new heights. Yeah...good luck with that.

There is still time for another signing. Even without another signing, I feel very good about the odds of them finishing above .500. You're clearly a butt-hurt Yankee hater. Good luck with that.

[Amberkow]

This is fine with me! I'm just glad he did not sign with the West Coast Yankees... (Dodgers)

[RYBOWSKI97]

Dice k 2.0 enjoy

[shortking98]

Say Tanaka is 4 WAR...which is being really nice. That means they are slightly better than last year....UNLESS they are incredibly lucky with injuries. Not to mention that the Yankees record last year was actually BETTER than their advance stats...meaning they were lucky to be over .500 considering their roster.

Exactly, obviously my summary was a bit of an oversimplification but the point remains that this is still a far from dominant roster just as it was last year.

[YanksBillsFan]

This deal is just another step in the evolution of these ridiculous contracts. The last deal dictates the next one. Disagree all we want, but with a free market, this is the reality. Insane that this off-season we have the bloated contracts of Cano, Kershaw, and Tanaka. Unless MLB does something to curtail these deals and spending, just sit back and enjoy the contracts when Trout, Harper and JoFer re-up. In the meantime should be fun to see what Price and Scherzer will bring in next year.

[Bradforddorman]

Also you take away the A-rod cancer and get Jeter back. Jeter's leadership on the field alone helps the overall team.

[mgugs46]

Also you take away the A-rod cancer and get Jeter back. Jeter's leadership on the field alone helps the overall team.

But his production, and awful defense at SS will not. What can you possibly hope for out of a 40 year old coming off an injury?

Not too mention that Arod cancer will be there all year - and the 3 after that

[texgator]

There is still time for another signing. Even without another signing, I feel very good about the odds of them finishing above .500. You're clearly a butt-hurt Yankee hater. Good luck with that.

Yes...enjoy overpaying Matt Garza for 4 years of suck.

How can anyone be "butt-hurt" by a team that didn't make the playoffs last year and wont' be a threat for the foreseeable future? LOLZ.

[xbignick]

Also you take away the A-rod cancer and get Jeter back. Jeter's leadership on the field alone helps the overall team.

How? I'll never understand most intangibles. Is Teixeira going to be able to reach half a foot over for a grounder shooting by him because Jeter is standing at shortstop?

[texgator]

But his production, and awful defense at SS will not. What can you possibly hope for out of a 40 year old coming off an injury?

Not too mention that Arod cancer will be there all year - and the 3 after that

Exactly.....what can you possible expect out of Jeter....other than MISERABLE defense.

[ToppsCollector1]

I'm actually not surprised by this. Somehow, the Yankees always end up getting the big name guys. I wonder how much the Cubs bid.

Neither am I. I knew it would be the Yankees because like you said, they somehow manage to get most of the top guys

[Bradforddorman]

How? I'll never understand most intangibles. Is Teixeira going to be able to reach half a foot over for a grounder shooting by him because Jeter is standing at shortstop?

Speaking of Teixeira, he will be back on the field sometime this year, which will be an improvement for sure.

[Nickclark1988]

Exactly.....what can you possible expect out of Jeter....other than MISERABLE defense.

Leadership. Shows a decent history of hitting well. Clutchness. Having Teixiera back is big. Stop dismissing everything about the Yankees dude. I'm not even a fan and I can respect that lineup. About the WAR, 2 out of the 4 people listed were pitchers. Rivera and Pettite. Now they have 4 new guys who play every day. Of course they are better.

[TarjetasBéisbol]

I love this move, and feel even better about a friendly bet I have with someone that the yankees finish above .500 next season.

That bet is money in the bank! How can you go wrong with a team that hasn't finished under .500 since 1992?

I HATE THE YANKEES! But you have to admit that this is a great move for them AND for baseball. Even though many pitchers haven't done well in MLB I hope Tanaka has an amazing season. This is also good for the hobby and many of us who are commenting on this thread will be glad if we pull an auto from any of the 2014 products.

With all the negative from the ARod stuff the Yankees pull out another signing that will make them, once again, the talk of baseball. I hope the Yankees have a decent season but fall out of any playoff chances, the playoffs belong to the Tigers.

[YanksBillsFan]

The Tanaka domino should now show us where Garza, Ubaldo, and Santana chips falls.

[texgator]

Leadership. Shows a decent history of hitting well. Clutchness.
So a bunch of stuff that you can't quantify. Right.

I'm not even a fan and I can respect that lineup.
I respect it....I just don't think its all that good.


About the WAR, 2 out of the 4 people listed were pitchers. Rivera and Pettite. Now they have 4 new guys who play every day. Of course they are better.

They aren't much better and most of the "better" is wrapped up in two older players returning from injury. Again, I restate my original point.....if you are betting on the Yankees you are essentially betting on the oldest team in the league being relatively injury free. That's a pretty bad bet.

[WCTYSON]

I think I remember reading a fairly recent study (maybe 2012 or so?) that said that the price of 1 WAR on the free agent market costs about $6.5 million per year. So if you're including the $20m posting fee and assuming the $155 million is spread evenly over the 7 years of the contract (which I believe is what the MLB does for payroll calculations anyway) Tanaka has to be worth 4 WAR each year to "earn" his contract. I'm not a Yankees fan, and I've never seen Tanaka pitch, but given what I've read about him, that seems totally plausible.

Right on point. Looks like a young Kuroda to me, with even better rates. Certainly will be worth every penny, if he pitches around 200 innings per season.

Hiroki Kuroda Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kurodhi01.shtml)

Masahiro Tanaka Japanese League Statistics & History - Baseball-Reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/japan/player.cgi?id=tanaka003mas)

[gamboooler]

This is a highly debatable statement. Here is a broad based summary of their offseason that does not show a vast improvement to me, looks more like a break even.

Additions:
Jacoby Ellsbury - 5.8 WAR
Carlos Beltran - 2.4 WAR
Brian McCann - 2.2 WAR
Masahiro Tanaka - ?? WAR

Total Additions: 10.4 WAR (plus Tanaka)

Subtractions:

Robinson Cano - 7.6 WAR
Mariano Rivera - 2.5 WAR
Andy Pettite - 2.5 WAR
Curtis Granderson - 1.1 WAR

Total Subtractions: 13.7 WAR

Kind of missing a lot here, even if it's a broad representation. Left out Teixeira for Overbay, Jeter for Nunez/Nix/Ryan/Brignac (even if Jeter uses a cane in the field, that's an upgrade), whatever reliever replaces Rivera's spot (+Robertson to CL) despite being a downgrade is a win for the total, I'm being optimistic here but Pineda for whatever random #5 you want to choose, even Kelly Johnson will be an upgrade at 3rd over Nix/Reynolds. Not too optimistic that there will be a miracle bounce back for Sabathia, but not impossible.

I'm fairly confident that barring catastrophic injuries, the team is winning 90 games and will be in playoff contention.

[vwnut13]

You are basically betting that the oldest team in the league will remain relatively injury free. Good luck with all that.

Well, they finished above .500 last year did they not?

[texgator]

Well, they finished above .500 last year did they not?

Yes....but they outperformed their advanced statistics by a good amount. Basically, they got lucky a lot. Kind of like the 2012 Orioles....and we saw what happened with them in 2013....big regression.

[NeedChapmans]

Guys, there's no doubt that Tanaka will improve the Yankees this season; however I'm on the wagon that thinks the Yankees still finish under .500.

First of all, the division is stacked as it always is. Boston is only a touch worse offensively than they were in '13 (maybe) and Baltimore, Tampa Bay and Toronto are all quality teams with talent on the way up (Toronto pitching especially with Sanchez and Stroman). It's the toughest of divisions to win each and every year.

Now, in a perfect, healthy world, I think the Yankees could be tough. They've got a strong 1-9 offensive line-up and an OK SP core to contend. However, they're the oldest, shallowest team in the major leagues and they have absolutely nothing on the farm that will contribute in 2013. When I say nothing, I mean not a single light to shine if anyone on this 25 man roster goes down.

Ellsbury / Jeter / Teixeira / Soriano / Beltran / McCann / Johnson / Gardner / Roberts is likely the starting 9 (unless they grab a 3B). In 2011 this was a line-up that would crush you ... in 2014, it's just "good". A lot of age, a lot of K's, and a lot of 11 run games and shutouts ahead. Bullpen is average at best, starting pitching is a ? because you have a lot of age, Tanaka and still a missing 5th starter. The problem here is that when you start putting these guys on the 15-day DL, you get people like Zolio Almonte, Francisco Cervelli and Eduardo Nunez filling in the holes. That OK line-up quickly becomes one of the worst.

The game has changed a lot in 20 years; especially when it comes to conditioning of athletes and strength training. More than ever, guys get hurt and more than ever it's important to have a bench and farm system to lean on when you need someone to step in and step up. I think this $$$ system of baseball that the Yankees have nailed themselves too is no longer a winning strategy; and for me, 77 wins is the likely number this season.

[Wolves4Life]

There was reports that Tanaka wanted to win now....Cubs will win a WS before Yanks win another one. Hope Tanaka enjoys that. As a Cubs fan I am not bitter cause I will be real about Tanaka I didn't want Cubs overpaying for 1 questionable player to begin with.

[rob11nats]

Kind of missing a lot here, even if it's a broad representation. Left out Teixeira for Overbay, Jeter for Nunez/Nix/Ryan/Brignac (even if Jeter uses a cane in the field, that's an upgrade), whatever reliever replaces Rivera's spot (+Robertson to CL) despite being a downgrade is a win for the total, I'm being optimistic here but Pineda for whatever random #5 you want to choose, even Kelly Johnson will be an upgrade at 3rd over Nix/Reynolds. Not too optimistic that there will be a miracle bounce back for Sabathia, but not impossible.

I'm fairly confident that barring catastrophic injuries, the team is winning 90 games and will be in playoff contention.

Yeah, I agree with all of this completely, except that I'm even higher on Sabathia's chances to pitch very well this year. Mark my words - with that lineup he'll approach 20 wins this season.

Another thing that people are forgetting in the WAR discussion going back a few posts is that both McCann and Ellsbury should get bumps in their production - and therefore their WAR - as lefty hitters in the new Yankee stadium (and for McCann the chance to DH sometimes to keep his bat in the lineup on off-days from catching). So if you tack on 4.5 WAR for Tanaka, which is a completely reasonable projection, and another 0.5 war for Ellsbury and another 1.0 for McCann, you're talking about adding a net 3 wins or so to last year's team. Then add in Teixeira's return and you're talking about a wild card contender.

[Bradforddorman]

Yeah, I agree with all of this completely, except that I'm even higher on Sabathia's chances to pitch very well this year. Mark my words - with that lineup he'll approach 20 wins this season.

Another thing that people are forgetting in the WAR discussion going back a few posts is that both McCann and Ellsbury should get bumps in their production - and therefore their WAR - as lefty hitters in the new Yankee stadium (and for McCann the chance to DH sometimes to keep his bat in the lineup on off-days from catching). So if you tack on 4.5 WAR for Tanaka, which is a completely reasonable projection, and another 0.5 war for Ellsbury and another 1.0 for McCann, you're talking about adding a net 3 wins or so to last year's team. Then add in Teixeira's return and you're talking about a wild card contender.

Exactly. Looking only at additions and subtraction a without accounting for ballpark, DH, and returns from injury is extremely biased.

[WCTYSON]

Guys, there's no doubt that Tanaka will improve the Yankees this season; however I'm on the wagon that thinks the Yankees still finish under .500.

Not even a Yankees fan but I am willing to take you up on this. Put up again? Let me know what you are willing to do.

[WCTYSON]

There was reports that Tanaka wanted to win now....Cubs will win a WS before Yanks win another one. Hope Tanaka enjoys that. As a Cubs fan I am not bitter cause I will be real about Tanaka I didn't want Cubs overpaying for 1 questionable player to begin with.

You willing to put up, where you mouth is? Cubs will not win a World Series before the Yankees add another.

[Bradforddorman]

From the Vegas Insider site.

"Following the Yankees signing of star Japanese pitcher Masashiro Tanaka to a $155 million deal, New York has moved from 20/1 odds to 12/1 to win the World Series."

In case you're wondering, the Res Sox are also a 12/1 favorite.

[rob11nats]

Not even a Yankees fan but I am willing to take you up on this. Put up again? Let me know what you are willing to do.

I'd love to get in on this as well.

[Wolves4Life]

You willing to put up, where you mouth is? Cubs will not win a World Series before the Yankees add another.

Cubs have way more talent on the rise than Yanks have by a mile. If I was a betting man than yes I would put up. Now because I said it watch Yanks win this year. :special:

[Nickclark1988]

Cubs have way more talent on the rise than Yanks have by a mile. If I was a betting man than yes I would put up. Now because I said it watch Yanks win this year. :special:

Are you insane? Please don't put the Yankees in the same breath as the Cubs please...

[VeedonFleece]

That bet is money in the bank! How can you go wrong with a team that hasn't finished under .500 since 1992?

Detroit fans have a history of demonstrating they understand nothing about betting. The Pirates had finished under .500 since forever. How would taking that bet last year have worked out?

This does make the Yankees stronger though, obviously.

[Jaypers]

Jose de Jesus Ortiz ‏@OrtizKicks
The Astros' offer to Tanaka was over $100 million, according to a person with knowledge of the Tanaka negotiations.

[Cubs]

Go Cubs!!!!!!

[Rufusyo]

I hope he does well. I remember all of the local Texas fans complaining about how we signed Darvish, an unproven pitcher, and let C.J. Wilson go. I was incredibly happy when we did. I don't think Tanaka will have the success of Darvish, but he should be a big boost for the hated Yankees.

[Wolves4Life]

Are you insane? Please don't put the Yankees in the same breath as the Cubs please...

You do know when I say talent on the rise I am talking about the young players on the Cubs now and their farm system right? Cubs are far and above better than Yanks when it comes to that. Yanks have better vets just not better talent in the farm system.

[clocsta2323]

Yes...enjoy overpaying Matt Garza for 4 years of suck.

How can anyone be "butt-hurt" by a team that didn't make the playoffs last year and wont' be a threat for the foreseeable future? LOLZ.

Dude... as soon as you say "LOLZ".. you lose.

[Nickclark1988]

You do know when I say talent on the rise I am talking about the young players on the Cubs now and their farm system right? Cubs are far and above better than Yanks when it comes to that. Yanks have better vets just not better talent in the farm system.

I understand. But "talent on the rise" means nothing technically. Chances are those "talents" would not pan out. I rather have an aging experienced bunch who showed some history of excellence then an unproven commodity.

So yes I much rather be the Yankees then the Cubs now, in the near future, and years ahead. Oh and also the past...

[dhcollecting]

he will never be more than a #3, I'm glad the Dodgers didn't end up tying up all this money.

The Yankees have spent a boatload this offseason and are only a slightly better team! If everyone stays relatively healthy they will make the playoffs and lose in the first round!

[Jaypers]

Jim Callis ‏@jimcallisMLB
As high as 4, as low as 7. @Jaypers413: Had he been eligible, about where would Tanaka have ranked on your top 100 prospects list? @Yankees

[Wolves4Life]

I understand. But "talent on the rise" means nothing technically. Chances are those "talents" would not pan out. I rather have an aging experienced bunch who showed some history of excellence then an unproven commodity.

So yes I much rather be the Yankees then the Cubs now, in the near future, and years ahead. Oh and also the past...

Hope you have fun with that. Than again Yanks will try and sign anyone that pops out in FA all they have to do is over pay like they always do.

[Rndm1]

Jose de Jesus Ortiz ‏@OrtizKicks
The Astros' offer to Tanaka was over $100 million, according to a person with knowledge of the Tanaka negotiations.

At least when he busts, and he will, the Astros wont have that cloud over their heads.

I don't understand the money they throw at these prospects/pros?

[Tugarpj]

They aren't in the Central, so go Yankees. Give them credit. The bidding had to be very close. Guessing Tanaka just wanted to be a Yankee when all was said and done. Will hopefully take some of the emphasis off Aroid for awhile. They should be very competitive this year.

[shayscards79]

Not as good as Darvish, slightly better than Kei Igawa?

[shayscards79]

Thank God the Cubs didn't sign him. After getting burned by Fukudome, I hope they avoid Japanese players for ever. On the other hand if guys like Matt Murton can break hitting records over there, they can take all of these bums we have.

[texgator]

Dude... as soon as you say "LOLZ".. you lose.

As soon as you respond without any actual points regarding the discussion at hand you lose.

[Wolves4Life]

Not as good as Darvish, slightly better than Kei Igawa?

Probably less effective than Irabu.

[hohlernr]

From the Vegas Insider site.

"Following the Yankees signing of star Japanese pitcher Masashiro Tanaka to a $155 million deal, New York has moved from 20/1 odds to 12/1 to win the World Series."

In case you're wondering, the Res Sox are also a 12/1 favorite.

This is more of a sign that the books are expecting to be hammered by all the Stankee lovers, thus they need to balance their sheets.

I would lay down my house to bet the Stankees 1/12 that they won't win the WS.

[texgator]

This is more of a sign that the books are expecting to be hammered by all the Stankee lovers, thus they need to balance their sheets.

I would lay down my house to bet the Stankees 1/12 that they won't win the WS.

Right....Vegas doesn't care about actual probabilities, they only care about balancing the action.

[VeedonFleece]

Right....Vegas doesn't care about actual probabilities, they only care about balancing the action.

Not strictly true. They'll take a position but they're not stupid enough to leave themselves hopelessly exposed. A good bookie should be more than willing to have an unbalanced book where they have the field against a bad favourite.

[thestickman1]

All I see on here is everyone worrying about the Yankees and the luxury tax. Obviosly they don't care about the luxury tax one bit! I am sure they used the "we want to be under the luxury tax" as bait to sign players quickly instead of going through lengthy negotiations. If you look at who the Yankees have signed already they did it quick and painless. No lengthy negotiations, except for maybe Tanaka...but we all new that was inevitable.

When Hideki Matsui signed with the Yanks they made a fortune at the ballpark on Matsui memorabilia because it drew in huge contingents of Japanese Americans and Japanese tourists to Yankee Stadium. I am sure they are looking for the same profit in this deal. Not to mention the Japanese advertising that was all over the stadium when Matsui was here. But there is that chance of him being the next Hideki Irabu or Kei Igawa. We will all have to wait and see.

Bottom line is that money is no object for the Yanks.

[stera8]

Cubs have way more talent on the rise than Yanks have by a mile. If I was a betting man than yes I would put up. Now because I said it watch Yanks win this year. :special:

The Yankees will probably win another World Series before the cubs even make the playoffs.

5 years?

[JohnAndrew]

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BemwKbUCAAApsXz.jpg:large

[coltsnsox07]

He looks the part, doesn't look like a scrawny little guy to me. His eyes look oddly un even, like one is higher than the other? He'll sell tickets every 5th day!

[discostu]

Why are you counting the posting fee in Tanaka's deal but leaving it out in Darvish's? Darvish was around 105 for 6 when you include the posting fee.

You can't add the posting fee to one but not the other. That said, the Rangers obviously have the better pitcher at a better price.

My oversight...dualy [sic] noted.

[Wolves4Life]

The Yankees will probably win another World Series before the cubs even make the playoffs.

5 years?

Anything can happen it's baseball so you never know.

[duwal]

Bottom line is that money is no object for the Yanks.


money may be no object to them but they also don't spend their money wisely. They could have used that money for upgrades at certain positions or basic needs instead of one questionable pitcher basically pitching against AA talent in Japan

[texgator]

money may be no object to them but they also don't spend their money wisely. They could have used that money for upgrades at certain positions or basic needs instead of one questionable pitcher basically pitching against AA talent in Japan

Most baseball people feel that NPB is slightly more talent rich than AAA. You have a lot of very experienced hitters, even if they aren't quite MLB level, who know how to work counts and read pitchers. NPB is a lot better than AA. Regardless, discounting his performance in Japan, just because it isn't America is pretty foolish.

[Bradforddorman]

Most baseball people feel that NPB is slightly more talent rich than AAA. You have a lot of very experienced hitters, even if they aren't quite MLB level, who know how to work counts and read pitchers. NPB is a lot better than AA. Regardless, discounting his performance in Japan, just because it isn't America is pretty foolish.


You pretty much closed this thread down with that. I guess some of the Yankee haters are running to do research on the NPB now. The people that act like this guy is some chump that will be a 5th starter at best make me laugh. If that was a high possibility, do you think teams would have been lined up like they were to throw money at him? I see him being very successful, and that opinion would be the same if he had signed with any other team. His offspead stuff is NASTY.

[armyatc22]

I hope the set that's going to have the Major league autos in them have a dual of him and this guy!!!! hahahaha

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s344/armyatc22/NotCards/5AF488AF-7484-4090-837C-060DC6797413_zpstgf1ccoq.jpg (http://s510.photobucket.com/user/armyatc22/media/NotCards/5AF488AF-7484-4090-837C-060DC6797413_zpstgf1ccoq.jpg.html)

[centereacan06]

High risk/high reward. They could be getting Yu Darvish, Dice-K, or Kei Igawa. No knowing how this will turn out.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Hideki Irabu... or Yu Darvish? I'm hoping Irabu.

[WCTYSON]

Hideki Irabu... or Yu Darvish? I'm hoping Irabu.

:rolleyes: A young Kuroda. :)!

[texgator]

You pretty much closed this thread down with that. I guess some of the Yankee haters are running to do research on the NPB now. The people that act like this guy is some chump that will be a 5th starter at best make me laugh. If that was a high possibility, do you think teams would have been lined up like they were to throw money at him? I see him being very successful, and that opinion would be the same if he had signed with any other team. His offspead stuff is NASTY.

He's probably a solid #2. I don't see him being a true ace or even a solid #1 on most teams. But, still......a good #2 at 25 years old....if the guy came open on the free market would EASILY command this kind of a contract. My only problem with the deal is that the Yankees gave the 4 year opt out and the total no trade clause. Way too player friendly for a guy unproven at the MLB level. But....with the new posting system you are going to see these kinds of deals, I think. The NPB players now have incredible leverage....and the agents know it.

[YanksBillsFan]

I'm sure the Yanks would even take Iwakuma with how desperate they are for pitching.

[dlab85]

Hideki Irabu... or Yu Darvish? I'm hoping Irabu.

In the immortal words of Stuart Scott, "Hideki Ira-BOOYAH!"

[vwnut13]

I'm sure the Yanks would even take Iwakuma with how desperate they are for pitching.

Sabathia/Tanaka/Kuroda/Nova/Pineda

I'll take that.

[YanksBillsFan]

Sabathia/Tanaka/Kuroda/Nova/Pineda

I'll take that.

Absolutely. Much better than before where it was Pineda and Phelps. Though I'm a fan of Phelps.

[mgugs46]

You pretty much closed this thread down with that. I guess some of the Yankee haters are running to do research on the NPB now. The people that act like this guy is some chump that will be a 5th starter at best make me laugh. If that was a high possibility, do you think teams would have been lined up like they were to throw money at him? I see him being very successful, and that opinion would be the same if he had signed with any other team. His offspead stuff is NASTY.

Anyone who is foolish enough to think that his stuff will translate to mlb and the AL east in particular make me laugh.

See, it goes both ways.

It's an extreme overpay for a guy who is not close to the pitcher Darvish is, or really any other pitcher making the kind of money he is.

[Bradforddorman]

Anyone who is foolish enough to think that his stuff will translate to mlb and the AL east in particular make me laugh.

See, it goes both ways.

It's an extreme overpay for a guy who is not close to the pitcher Darvish is, or really any other pitcher making the kind of money he is.

I've already put my money where my mouth is(even before the yankees signed Tanaka). You are just bumping your gums, and with you obviously being a Red Sox fan, I can understand you hating the fact that the Yankees had a big off season. I would be worried too if I were you, and trying to convince myself that they are going to be terrible this year.

Also, if by his stuff "translating to the MLB," you mean that I believe he is going to go 24-0 with an ERA under 1.5 then of course I don't expect him to do that. Expecting him to be a legitimate #2 starter isn't far fetched. If you're a #2 starter in the MLB I think it's safe to say that your stuff "translates to the MLB."

[Swipe79]

Man...you guys still must be sore about Daisuke...

Anyone who is foolish enough to think that his stuff will translate to mlb and the AL east in particular make me laugh.

See, it goes both ways.

It's an extreme overpay for a guy who is not close to the pitcher Darvish is, or really any other pitcher making the kind of money he is.

[mgugs46]

I've already put my money where my mouth is(even before the yankees signed Tanaka). You are just bumping your gums, and with you obviously being a Red Sox fan, I can understand you hating the fact that the Yankees had a big off season. I would be worried too if I were you, and trying to convince myself that they are going to be terrible this year.

Also, if by his stuff "translating to the MLB," you mean that I believe he is going to go 24-0 with an ERA under 1.5 then of course I don't expect him to do that. Expecting him to be a legitimate #2 starter isn't far fetched. If you're a #2 starter in the MLB I think it's safe to say that your stuff "translates to the MLB."

The Yankees still have holes at 2b, 3b, SP, RP. They have the corpse of Jeter at SS. Who knows what from Teix at 1B, the Arod circus and no farm system at all. And spent $500M so far this offseason in contracts.

The Red Sox just won the world series.

I'm not at all worried about the Yankees, in fact I'm far more concerned with TB honestly.

As for Tanaka - I don't think his stuff will translate at all. Great splitter - but unlike Koji he's got to face guys three times in a lineup, not once in the 9th.

Those expecting anything Darvish like will be sorely disappointed, again imo.

I've said it all along - I wanted no part of Tanaka going to Boston. Darvish is a freak of nature, and overall nearly every Japanese pitcher coming to mlb has either flat out failed, or has had limited success before becoming a mediocre/poor SP.

It's not jealousy, Yankee hatred, etc.

[Jaypers]

Here's a BA article where Ben Badler discusses Darvish vs. Tanaka.

Good read. :)


Who’s Better: Masahiro Tanaka Or Yu Darvish?
January 7, 2014 by Ben Badler

When Yu Darvish left Japan, scouts felt he had the potential to be a No. 1 starter.

Texas paid $51 million to get the right to negotiate with Yu Darvish.
Darvish has been exactly that, leading the majors in strikeouts last season and finishing second in the American League Cy Young Award vote.

Masahiro Tanaka isn’t a similar pitcher to Darvish. He’s different physically, both in terms of the quality of his stuff and the way he attacks hitters.

What they have in common is they both spent their entire careers in Nippon Professional Baseball, where they were the best pitchers in Japan before leaving for Major League Baseball at age 25. Darvish was the No. 1 prospect in the 2009 World Baseball Classic; Tanaka was the top player in the 2013 WBC.

The Rangers committed nearly $108 million for Darvish, winning the posting bid at $51.7 million before signing him to a six-year, $56 million contract. With the new posting system that restricts the release fee to $20 million, Tanaka should easily surpass Darvish’s contract.

Thanks to the success of Darvish, other NPB pitchers and growing industry revenues, the total package a team pays to secure Tanaka—posting fee and contract combined—could also surpass what the Rangers paid for Darvish.

Will Tanaka be as electric against MLB hitters as Darvish has been in his first two years? After watching several of Tanaka’s starts this season and speaking with scouts about him, here’s a tale of the tape between Darvish and Tanaka at the time both of them left Japan.

PERFORMANCE

Tanaka had more immediate success coming out of high school than Darvish. As an 18-year-old, Tanaka stepped into the Rakuten Eagles’ starting rotation and struck out 196 batters in 186 1/3 innings with a 3.82 ERA. When Darvish was 18, he did have a lower ERA (3.53) but his 52-48 K-BB mark in 94 1/3 innings was less impressive.

But Darvish and Tanaka both quickly became stars in Japan. As a 20-year-old in 2007, Darvish won the Sawamura Award, Japan’s equivalent of the Cy Young. Tanaka won two Sawamura Awards, one in 2011 (Darvish’s final season in Japan) and another in 2013.

In their final respective Japanese seasons, Tanaka (1.27) had Darvish (1.44) slightly beat in ERA. The difference becomes more pronounced when accounting for the change in run environment in the Pacific League, where in 2011 the league average ERA was 2.95, then jumped to 3.57 in 2013. In terms of run prevention, Tanaka gets a small edge.

Both pitchers averaged 1.4 walks per nine innings in their final season in Japan, but the difference maker is Darvish’s ability to miss bats. Tanaka has swing-and-miss stuff, ranking second in the Pacific League in strikeouts last year (183 in 212 innings) and averaging 7.8 K/9. Darvish’s whiff rate in 2011 was even more prolific, with 276 strikeouts in 232 innings for an average of 10.7 K/9, an edge that jumps out to analysts in major league front offices. This one could go either way.

Advantage: EVEN

FASTBALL

Darvish left Japan with a fastball that sat at 92-95 mph and had touched 99 in relief, and with the Rangers he’s generally been around the same range. Tanaka parks around 89-94 mph and can hit 96 with his four-seam fastball when he needs a little extra gas. Both pitchers throw different variations of their fastball, mixing four-seam, two-seam and cutter grips for different effect. Darvish throws harder than Tanaka, has a little extra life on his fastball and gets better downhill angle on the pitch.

Advantage: DARVISH

SLIDER

Tanaka has a plus slider that grades out even better at times, though there were also starts last season when the pitch got away from him and lacked its usual two-plane tilt. At its best, Tanaka’s slider is a swing-and-miss pitch at 82-85 mph, diving hard and away from righthanded hitters. When he gets in trouble it’s often because he leaves it up in the zone, a mistake he can get away with more in Japan than against major league hitters.

While Tanaka’s slider is an out pitch, Darvish’s slider is one of the nastiest pitches in baseball. In Baseball America’s annual Best Tools survey, American League managers voted Darvish as having the third-best slider in the AL in 2012 and 2013, behind Chris Sale and Max Scherzer last season. It’s a 70 on the 20-80 scale and a pitch Darvish uses frequently.

Advantage: DARVISH

SPLITTER

This one is no contest. Darvish throws an occasional hard splitter around 87-90 mph, but it’s not a major part of his repertoire. For Tanaka, it’s the pitch that makes him dangerous. It comes out of his hand looking like a fastball at the belt, then has late movement after the point of decision for the hitter, falling off the table and tumbling below the hitter’s knees.

In the past Tanaka had leaned more on his slider, but his splitter (and his command of the pitch) improved so much this season that it’s become a more essential component in his arsenal. It’s a devastating pitch—“like John Smoltz” in the words of one National League scout—that earns plus-plus marks from scouts.

Advantage: TANAKA

CURVEBALL

Tanaka leans primarily on his fastball, splitter and slider, but he will sprinkle in a curveball as well to show hitters another speed. It’s a slow bender, usually in the low-70s but occasionally a little harder. He uses the curveball early in the count as a get-me-over pitch, but when he gets to a two-strike count he’ll go to the fastball, split or slider for his finishing pitch.

Darvish leans mostly on his fastball and slider, but his curveball is surprisingly effective. He adds and subtracts from his curve, throwing it as slow as the low-60s. He’ll throw his slow, rainbow curveball even with two strikes, getting swings and misses that make hitters look as foolish against the pitch as anything else he throws, when used judiciously.

Advantage: DARVISH

COMMAND/CONTROL

In his final season in Japan, Darvish walked 4.1 percent of batters he faced. Last season Tanaka walked 3.9 percent of batters. So they were about equal at preventing walks in their final seasons in Japan. But Tanaka has a longer track record of throwing strikes. In Darvish’s previous two seasons (2009-10), he walked 6.1 percent of batters; in Tanaka’s previous two seasons (2011-12), he walked just 2.9 percent of batters.

In Darvish’s rookie year with the Rangers, he walked 4.2 batters per nine innings, or 10.9 percent of batters he faced. While Darvish came over with stronger reports on his control than his rookie numbers would indicate, Tanaka should be able to maintain a lower walk rate next season.

“He’s going to throw strikes,” said an American League scout. “He’s going to be around the plate, and he can command his pitches off the strike zone as well.”

Advantage: TANAKA

DELIVERY/PHYSICAL

Darvish and Tanaka are both good athletes who are able to repeat their deliveries with good balance and coordination. Darvish has a tall 6-foot-5, 225-pound frame, whereas Tanaka is built more along the lines of Yovani Gallardo or Kyle Lohse at 6-foot-2, 205 pounds.

Tanaka wraps his wrist in the back of his arm action, but that doesn’t seem to hamper his command. One of the differences between the two pitchers is that, while Darvish stands tall in his delivery, Tanaka’s drop-and-drive mechanics result in his fastball coming in without the same downhill angle, which is why some scouts think fastball is more hittable than the pure velocity might otherwise indicate.

“The fastball’s coming in on a flatter plane,” said a second American League scout, “and that’s why it’s hard for him to create a good angle naturally. The split works well for him for that purpose, because if he didn’t have a splitter that went down, that fastball would get absolutely crushed. And obviously the slider helps take the heat off the fastball, too. But if you’re sitting on a fastball that’s going in at 96, it might go out at 106.”

Advantage: DARVISH

FINAL VERDICT

Over the last two seasons, according to Baseball-Reference.com, just six pitchers—Clayton Kershaw, Sale, Justin Verlander, Cliff Lee, Scherzer and Felix Hernandez—have accumulated more Wins Above Replacement (WAR) than Darvish. Nobody has more strikeouts in that stretch than Darvish, who has outstanding stuff, solid control and thrown around 200 innings per season in his major league career. He is a true ace.

Tanaka projects more as a No. 2, a frontline starter, but he’s a different pitcher from Darvish. That’s certainly not a knock on Tanaka—compare nearly anyone to Darvish, Verlander, Kershaw or Jose Fernandez and they won’t stack up well either. Tanaka should be one of the best pitchers in the major leagues this season, and there are some scouts who do prefer Tanaka to Darvish.

But in evaluating both pitchers at the time they left Japan, Darvish comes out ahead.

[SeanieTheMan]

Yankees trying to buy a Championship again

SMDH

Oh please :rolleyes:. I guess you forgot about Miami, Toronto, LAA, and LAD off seasons these past few years? So, don't try to say the Yankees are the only one that spends a lot of money on free agents. What an ignorant statement.

[WCTYSON]

Anyone who is foolish enough to think that his stuff will translate to mlb and the AL east in particular make me laugh.

See, it goes both ways.

It's an extreme overpay for a guy who is not close to the pitcher Darvish is, or really any other pitcher making the kind of money he is.

Not a Yankees fan personally but your fanatical hate toward them is certainly funny. I would argue that Tanaka has the makings of being a better pitcher than Darvish, in the essence of what the word pitching means. Darvish without a doubt has better velocity and better 'stuff' but Tanaka should exhibit much better control with top level 'stuff' in his own right. If we must try to compare pitchers from Japan, I think a young Kuroda is a fair expectation on Tanaka. While I do agree it is an overpay, the move makes sense for the Yankees. Their system is not loaded currently like the Red Sox system is. The Yankees seem to be pushing for short term success where the Red Sox have built something that likely will result in long term success.

[mgugs46]

Not a Yankees fan personally but your fanatical hate toward them is certainly funny. I would argue that Tanaka has the makings of being a better pitcher than Darvish, in the essence of what the word pitching means. Darvish without a doubt has better velocity and better 'stuff' but Tanaka should exhibit much better control with top level 'stuff' in his own right. If we must try to compare pitchers from Japan, I think a young Kuroda is a fair expectation on Tanaka. While I do agree it is an overpay, the move makes sense for the Yankees. Their system is not loaded currently like the Red Sox system is. The Yankees seem to be pushing for short term success where the Red Sox have built something that likely will result in long term success.

Not sure how my views on Tanaka, which I've expressed several times over before the Yankees signing him points to any fanatical hating of the Yankees? The Yankees have become irrelevant to me really. Sure, they'll always be the Sox #1 rival and all but since the '04 comeback, and the multiple WS titles it's been pretty blah imo.

Anyhow, I just don't see Darvish and Tanaka in the same class at all. Tanaka will probably be a fine #3 starter. Maybe a #2 on the Yanks since CC was abysmal last year ;) Seriously though, I just don't think he'll be worth anywhere near the $155m. Only time will tell.

[TakaTanakaGiant]

I hope the set that's going to have the Major league autos in them have a dual of him and this guy!!!! hahahaha

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s344/armyatc22/NotCards/5AF488AF-7484-4090-837C-060DC6797413_zpstgf1ccoq.jpg (http://s510.photobucket.com/user/armyatc22/media/NotCards/5AF488AF-7484-4090-837C-060DC6797413_zpstgf1ccoq.jpg.html)

I'd buy that card :)

[cekirsch129]

Good for the Yankees... Baseball is better when they are relevant. Being a Cardinals fan, the teams I hate most are the Reds, Brewers, and Cubs. Since neither of those three are any type of contenders, I need a team to hate on, so the Yankees will fill that void :special:

[enyouartist]

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s344/armyatc22/NotCards/5AF488AF-7484-4090-837C-060DC6797413_zpstgf1ccoq.jpg (http://s510.photobucket.com/user/armyatc22/media/NotCards/5AF488AF-7484-4090-837C-060DC6797413_zpstgf1ccoq.jpg.html)

Man, I would love this card as an autographed insert in Archives, but it HAS to be this particular picture. Unequivocally CLASSIC! It would automatically become my favorite card.

[duwal]

I've already put my money where my mouth is(even before the yankees signed Tanaka). You are just bumping your gums, and with you obviously being a Red Sox fan, I can understand you hating the fact that the Yankees had a big off season. I would be worried too if I were you, and trying to convince myself that they are going to be terrible this year.

Also, if by his stuff "translating to the MLB," you mean that I believe he is going to go 24-0 with an ERA under 1.5 then of course I don't expect him to do that. Expecting him to be a legitimate #2 starter isn't far fetched. If you're a #2 starter in the MLB I think it's safe to say that your stuff "translates to the MLB."


but its also completely different too. Look at how Dice-K was with proclaimed dominant stuff (17-5, 2.13 ERA) and then had one major league season where his era was below 4.40. Its just a huge risk especially with seeing that for the most part Darvish has been the exception in a wide array of failure of hyped Japanese imports through the years coming over to pitch/hit against the best in the world instead such a small percentage of talent. Hideki Irabu, Kaz Ishii, Dice-K, Kaz Matsui, Kei Igawa, Kosuke Fukudome, etc. Its just that we have seen this time and time before

[texgator]

but its also completely different too. Look at how Dice-K was with proclaimed dominant stuff (17-5, 2.13 ERA) and then had one major league season where his era was below 4.40. Its just a huge risk especially with seeing that for the most part Darvish has been the exception in a wide array of failure of hyped Japanese imports through the years coming over to pitch/hit against the best in the world instead such a small percentage of talent. Hideki Irabu, Kaz Ishii, Dice-K, Kaz Matsui, Kei Igawa, Kosuke Fukudome, etc. Its just that we have seen this time and time before

Kuroda....Iwakuma.....Darvish......there are plenty of success stories, too. Which is exactly the same for hyped American pitchers.

[YanksBillsFan]

but its also completely different too. Look at how Dice-K was with proclaimed dominant stuff (17-5, 2.13 ERA) and then had one major league season where his era was below 4.40. Its just a huge risk especially with seeing that for the most part Darvish has been the exception in a wide array of failure of hyped Japanese imports through the years coming over to pitch/hit against the best in the world instead such a small percentage of talent. Hideki Irabu, Kaz Ishii, Dice-K, Kaz Matsui, Kei Igawa, Kosuke Fukudome, etc. Its just that we have seen this time and time before

Texgator mentioned a few already, but you're neglecting to cite the success stories from Japan as well. Nomo, Sasaki, Hideki Matsui and of course Ichiro accomplished a lot over here.

[mgugs46]

Texgator mentioned a few already, but you're neglecting to cite the success stories from Japan as well. Nomo, Sasaki, Hideki Matsui and of course Ichiro accomplished a lot over here.

We are only talking pitchers though. And Nomo was not a success, minus a few for years he was average to poor. He pitched 12 years and was under a 4 ERA three times. He was at 4.50 or higher 9 times. I wouldn't call that a success at all.

[YanksBillsFan]

We are only talking pitchers though. And Nomo was not a success, minus a few for years he was average to poor. He pitched 12 years and was under a 4 ERA three times. He was at 4.50 or higher 9 times. I wouldn't call that a success at all.

I responded with hitters since duwal included Fukudome. Now Nomo wasn't an overall success, but he did experience success at the major league level which is more than guys like Igawa and Ishii can claim.

[texgator]

Again...the success rate for Asian pitchers isn't all that different from over-hyped American pitchers. Besides, judging an entire ethnicity as one group is kinda....I don't know...icky. How about you look at Tanaka himself, his particular characteristics, who he compares to and tell me why you think he won't succeed. The fact that he comes from a particular country doesn't really have a lot of bearing on his future.

[mgugs46]

Again...the success rate for Asian pitchers isn't all that different from over-hyped American pitchers. Besides, judging an entire ethnicity as one group is kinda....I don't know...icky. How about you look at Tanaka himself, his particular characteristics, who he compares to and tell me why you think he won't succeed. The fact that he comes from a particular country doesn't really have a lot of bearing on his future.

It does have a bearing though. It's not a race thing. It's a culture thing, it's a game style thing, it's a level of competition thing, etc. It has a bearing when the track record overall for pitchers coming over from the NPB has been poor.

I've already posted why I don't think Tanaka is worth the $ multiple times.

I'm not saying the guy will have zero success. In fact it won't surprise me if he's good to great the first half until hitters adjust/see him a few times. I just don't think he will have any long term success. I'm not even 100% convinced on Darvish yet either, although he had a great 2013.

[Bradforddorman]

The big + for Tanaka is his control. If he can get ahead in counts, his splitter is deadly. I wonder how many of the guys knocking him have even watched any film of him actually pitching? Too much infatuation with stat lines if you ask me. Basing his future performance on the performance of other guys from the same nationality does seem pretty "icky" if you really think about it.

[mgugs46]

The big + for Tanaka is his control. If he can get ahead in counts, his splitter is deadly. I wonder how many of the guys knocking him have even watched any film of him actually pitching? Too much infatuation with stat lines if you ask me. Basing his future performance on the performance of other guys from the same nationality does seem pretty "icky" if you really think about it.

Again, it's based on pitching style, and competition faced. Not his race. His league. The style of play in that league. It's all very different than here. Have you been to Japan? It's a very different culture.

[texgator]

It does have a bearing though. It's not a race thing. It's a culture thing, it's a game style thing, it's a level of competition thing, etc.
Right...and we've already seen a handful of NPB players come to MLB and have success. So....just saying that he's Japanese and therefore can't be trusted is a lazy and innaccurate argument based, solely, on race.

It has a bearing when the track record overall for pitchers coming over from the NPB has been poor.

The track record of ALL pitchers coming to MLB has been poor. Pitching is hard....pitching at the MLB level is REALLY hard.

I've already posted why I don't think Tanaka is worth the $ multiple times. Yes.....race-based, innaccurate reasons.

[enyouartist]

It's not a race thing. It's a culture thing, it's a game style thing, it's a level of competition thing, etc. It has a bearing when the track record overall for pitchers coming over from the NPB has been poor.

Darvish, Iwakuma, and Kuroda were all top ten AL pitchers past year. And how would the Sox have done without Uehara?

[mgugs46]

Darvish, Iwakuma, and Kuroda were all top ten AL pitchers past year. And how would the Sox have done without Uehara?

Uehara had an other worldly run last year. Not to mention, he's a RP who faces guys once - not three times a game.

And I agree on Darvish, Iwakuma and Kuroda. My point isn't that no pitcher from the NPB can ever have success here. It's that none have had any sustained success, thus paying $155m for one is crazy.

[mgugs46]

Right...and we've already seen a handful of NPB players come to MLB and have success. So....just saying that he's Japanese and therefore can't be trusted is a lazy and innaccurate argument based, solely, on race.



The track record of ALL pitchers coming to MLB has been poor. Pitching is hard....pitching at the MLB level is REALLY hard.

Yes.....race-based, innaccurate reasons.

I can't tell if you're thick, being purposefully ignorant or a combo of the two.

Find me a NPB PITCHER who had come to MLB and has had any sustained success. There haven't been any yet. Darvish may change that. Tanaka may. But spending $155m when track record says you won't get sustained success worthy of a $155m contract is stupid.

[texgator]

I can't tell if you're thick, being purposefully ignorant or a combo of the two.
I'm all of those things....and so much more


Find me a NPB PITCHER who had come to MLB and has had any sustained success. There haven't been any yet. Darvish may change that. Tanaka may. But spending $155m when track record says you won't get sustained success worthy of a $155m contract is stupid.

Kuroda....Iwakuma...Darvish. You may want to discount Darvish...for some reason...but for 2 years he has been in the top 5 of the AL. I don't know what else you could possibly ask of him.

Tanaka is a 25 year old free agent with a TON to suggest he will be, at the very least, a solid rotation pitcher with the upside of a great #2 maybe even a #1. THAT player....regardless of ethnicity....is worth a HUGE contract. The fact that every decent club in MLB was beating down Tanaka's door should probably be enough proof for you....but I guess only ignorant and thick people can see that.

[mgugs46]

I'm all of those things....and so much more




Kuroda....Iwakuma...Darvish. You may want to discount Darvish...for some reason...but for 2 years he has been in the top 5 of the AL. I don't know what else you could possibly ask of him.

Tanaka is a 25 year old free agent with a TON to suggest he will be, at the very least, a solid rotation pitcher with the upside of a great #2 maybe even a #1. THAT player....regardless of ethnicity....is worth a HUGE contract. The fact that every decent club in MLB was beating down Tanaka's door should probably be enough proof for you....but I guess only ignorant and thick people can see that.

In year 1 Darvish had an ERA of 3.90 - he was certainly not top 5.

Regarding Tanaka, I realize teams wanted to sign him - I realize he may in fact not be a bust. I realize he may wind up to be a #2 starter. However, my point remains the same - IMO, spending $155M on a pitcher, who has thrown to zero MLB hitters with a MLB ball in MLB parks, and based on previous track record of NPB pitchers is just silly.

I am not sure why this is so hard for you to comprehend, nor am I sure why you still continue to bring up ethnicity in every post?

[texgator]

In year 1 Darvish had an ERA of 3.90 - he was certainly not top 5.

Really...ERA?? In 2012 he was 3rd in WAR in the AL....he was 2nd in K/9...he was 8th in xFIP...he was a top pitcher in the AL. Here is a hint, if your argument is forcing you to make ridiculous suggestions like Yu Darvish hasn't established himself in MLB then your argument is a joke. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to comprehend.

[mgugs46]

Really...ERA?? In 2012 he was 3rd in WAR in the AL....he was 2nd in K/9...he was 8th in xFIP...he was a top pitcher in the AL. Here is a hint, if your argument is forcing you to make ridiculous suggestions like Yu Darvish hasn't established himself in MLB then your argument is a joke. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to comprehend.



2012 - he was 8th in the AL in WAR for pitchers, if you use ESPN's WAR - 3rd for Fangraphs. Still, using fangraphs he was 21st in WHIP. 16th in IP. 22nd in QS %. 7th in DIPS. 8TH in XFIP. Etc, etc. He was good - not top 5 in my mind.

As for established, did Matsuzaka establish himself after his 18-3 2.90 season? Did Nomo establish himself when he put that 2.54 with a k/9 of 11? Because both pitchers pretty much were bad to terrible after establishing themselves with 1 good {great in Nomo's case} season. I think Darvish is awesome - but if you asked me in 1996 I would have thought Nomo was awesome too.

[enyouartist]

But spending $155m when track record says you won't get sustained success worthy of a $155m contract is stupid.

I'm pretty sure MLB executives are not stupid. :)! Track record says the Japanese players can definitely compete, and in today's market, $155m is the going rate for a 25yr old number one starter.

[mgugs46]

I'm pretty sure MLB executives are not stupid. :)! Track record says the Japanese players can definitely compete, and in today's market, $155m is the going rate for a 25yr old number one starter.

Except he's not a #1, and the contracts being handed out in mlb are being handed to guys who have had success in mlb.

[vwnut13]

I can't tell if you're thick, being purposefully ignorant or a combo of the two.

Find me a NPB PITCHER who had come to MLB and has had any sustained success.


Kuroda with a 6 year career in the MLB and a 3.40 ERA?


His career MLB ERA (3.40) is lower than his career NPB ERA (3.69).

[mgugs46]

Kuroda with a 6 year career in the MLB and a 3.40 ERA?


His career MLB ERA (3.40) is lower than his career NPB ERA (3.69).

You are right. I always forget about him for some reason. By the way, he's the only one out of I believe 13 NPB pitchers to come to MLB and perform better after the first three seasons.

[WCTYSON]

Early on in this season but I find this an interesting read.

[mgugs46]

Early on in this season but I find this an interesting read.

He's looked great so far ... Then again most pitchers look great vs the Cubs. I'll be interested to see how he does vs patient teams, and teams he faces the second time around.

[Nervo]

He's looked great so far ... Then again most pitchers look great vs the Cubs. I'll be interested to see how he does vs patient teams, and teams he faces the second time around.

He looked equally as good against the other two teams.

He's proving all you haters wrong. His splitter is the best in baseball.

[VeedonFleece]

He looked equally as good against the other two teams.

He's proving all you haters wrong. His splitter is the best in baseball.

If he'd signed with the Red Sox, most of the Yankees fans would be haters too. He's made a great start but he hasn't proved anything. Daisuke Matsuzaka was outstanding in his first two seasons in the US, then fell off a cliff. Same could happen to Tanaka, yet we're hailing his greatness after 3 starts.

He does have a wicked splitter, though!

[cnewby]

If he'd signed with the Red Sox, most of the Yankees fans would be haters too. He's made a great start but he hasn't proved anything. Daisuke Matsuzaka was outstanding in his first two seasons in the US, then fell off a cliff. Same could happen to Tanaka, yet we're hailing his greatness after 3 starts.

He does have a wicked splitter, though!

some are hailing his greatness because in his 3 games in MLB he has been just that, GREAT. Those of you saying he hasn't proven anything are just wrong. How does 2BB/28K, 2.05ERA through 3 starts prove nothing?? SMH

[VeedonFleece]

some are hailing his greatness because in his 3 games in MLB he has been just that, GREAT. Those of you saying he hasn't proven anything are just wrong. How does 2BB/28K, 2.05ERA through 3 starts prove nothing?? SMH

Jesse Chavez has 2BB/28k and a 1.35 ERA through 3 starts. Where is the thread hailing his greatness?

Show some objectivity. SMH at all homers.

[cnewby]

Jesse Chavez has 2BB/28k and a 1.35 ERA through 3 starts. Where is the thread hailing his greatness?

Show some objectivity. SMH at all homers.

Whats Jesse Chavez's story? Was he chased by every team in MLB? Was he 24-0 In Japan last year? Tanaka was hyped BIG TIME and had a ton of pressure based on that. To say that he hasn't proven anything as you did is simply foolish. Don't change the subject - we are talking about Tanaka only here.

[VeedonFleece]

Jesse Chavez > Masahiro Tanaka. Obviously.

[cnewby]

ok, you win.

[VeedonFleece]

Thanks. Hard to dispute facts.

[WCTYSON]

Jesse Chavez has 2BB/28k and a 1.35 ERA through 3 starts. Where is the thread hailing his greatness?

Show some objectivity. SMH at all homers.

You could certainly make a thread if you like. :)!

[VeedonFleece]

Hehe, I've no doubt it would beat 9 pages! Point is that while Tanaka may have even surpassed some lofty expectations, it's just three starts. And Chavez has been even better!

[sportcardtheory]

And half of baseball has a higher batting average than Miguel Cabrera right now! Where are the threads about them??? Derp!

[WCTYSON]

And half of baseball has a higher batting average than Miguel Cabrera right now! Where are the threads about them??? Derp!

This thread was made in January. You are welcome to make a thread to discuss any player you like. I am sure if Tanaka had been shelled there would be a ton of 'I told you so' post. Where is the fun if you just take a wait and see approach? :rolleyes:

[nateyad]

Amazing there were no comments when Tanaka only had a 3.12 ERA and the Yankees lost to the Orioles. But now that he beat up on the Cubs and his ERA lowered to 2, man he is awesome!

[cnewby]

Amazing there were no comments when Tanaka only had a 3.12 ERA and the Yankees lost to the Orioles. But now that he beat up on the Cubs and his ERA lowered to 2, man he is awesome!

go read the yankees thread....

[sportcardtheory]

Amazing there were no comments when Tanaka only had a 3.12 ERA and the Yankees lost to the Orioles. But now that he beat up on the Cubs and his ERA lowered to 2, man he is awesome!

Amazing that when a guy plays really well people waste their time crapping all over him.

[nateyad]

go read the yankees thread....

What the heck would I do that???

[WCTYSON]

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/mike-trout-misses-masahiro-tanaka-splitter-a.gif?w=295&h=231&crop=1