Andre Reed a HOF before Tim Brown?

[adamt326]

Nothing against either player. They both belong there, but...

Andre Reed
234 Games
217 Starts
951 Catches
13,198 Yards
87 Rec TD
500 Rush Yards
1 Rush TD
648 Return Yards
0 Return TD
7 Pro Bowls
0 Rings

Tim Brown
255 Games
202 Starts
1094 Catches
14,934 Yards
100 Rec TD
190 Rush Yards
1 Rush TD
4555 Return Yards
4 Return TD
9 Pro Bowls
0 Rings

[wingah]

Would be a shame in my opinion if he gets in before Brown

[adamt326]

Would be a shame in my opinion if he gets in before Brown

He did. That's my point. It's a shame.

[wingah]

Oh I thought those were just the finalists. Yea Brown should be in. Its a joke to keep him out at this point.

[zakkwyldesbeard]

It's become a charity case.

He who waits longest to get in is likely to get in at the expense of someone who has waited not as long, but has superior numbers.

[Gator993]

The fact that Brown didnt even make the top 10 (cut at the 15 player mark) makes me question the entire process. Tim Brown was an elite receiver for 10 years.

[HBMC]

Charles Haley has more Super Bowl rings and appearances than most franchises, still not in...

[mrmojorisin71]

Charles Haley has more Super Bowl rings and appearances than most franchises, still not in...

Charles Haley is one if my all time favorites and I can believe he's not in, and Tim brown was just a straight up beast

[rats60]

It's become a charity case.

He who waits longest to get in is likely to get in at the expense of someone who has waited not as long, but has superior numbers.

No, they chose overall impact over accumulating stats. Reed was an intregal part of a team that won 4 conference championships in a row. If that were the case, Haley would be in and Strahan would still be waiting.

[silverandblack]

The NFL hall of fame voting is a joke and has been for awhile. Brown should have been in before Reed simply because he was a better player. If Brown had a hof Qb throwing him the ball he would have numbers up there with Rice.

[88horsepower]

The NFL hall of fame voting is a joke and has been for awhile. Brown should have been in before Reed simply because he was a better player. If Brown had a hof Qb throwing him the ball he would have numbers up there with Rice.

Exactly. They put Reed in only because he'd been waiting forever and should have gotten in ages ago. God forbid they actually vote in two or three players from the same position at the same time. I mean, why couldn't Marvin Harrison, Andre Reed and Tim Brown have gotten in on the same ballot? Heck, why couldn't Reed get in several years ago?

[HBMC]

No, they chose overall impact over accumulating stats. Reed was an intregal part of a team that won 4 conference championships in a row. If that were the case, Haley would be in and Strahan would still be waiting.

Reed also played forever afterwards and never lead the NFL or AFC in receiving yards.

[rats60]

The NFL hall of fame voting is a joke and has been for awhile. Brown should have been in before Reed simply because he was a better player. If Brown had a hof Qb throwing him the ball he would have numbers up there with Rice.

Not true. His numbers would have been worse with a Bills team that ran more than it passed and had a RB who was catching 50-60 passes per season.

[brose61]

Andre reed played with HOFer Jim Kelly as his QB essentially his whole career. Tim brown played with Jay Schroeder, Jeff Hostetler, Jeff George, and Rich Gannon. Amazing Tim could put up the better receiving stats and those that are old enough remember Tim as being a beast in the return game.

[LGBuffalo]

The debate can definitely be made for either player. However, I think the more this goes on, the more the voters are showing that team accomplishments really do matter. It's supposed to be an individual award, but team success really does play a part. Tim Brown was an amazing player, on some pretty good Raiders teams. Andre Reed was an amazing player on some amazing Bills teams. I think that recognition is what tipped the scales.

[silverandblack]

Not true. His numbers would have been worse with a Bills team that ran more than it passed and had a RB who was catching 50-60 passes per season.

Read what I wrote I didn't say anything about Brown on the Bills I said if he had a hof type Qb throwing him the ball he would have been up there with Rice.

Brown's receiving numbers are better and then factor in the return game he is head and shoulders above Reed. This vote is a joke

[corndog]

IMO Andre Reed and Tim Brown were both real good players, not Hall of Famers.

[rats60]

Read what I wrote I didn't say anything about Brown on the Bills I said if he had a hof type Qb throwing him the ball he would have been up there with Rice.

Brown's receiving numbers are better and then factor in the return game he is head and shoulders above Reed. This vote is a joke

Read what I said. Jim Kelly was a HOF QB and the one Reed played with. 4 years in Reed's prime, Thurmond Thomas led the NFL in yards from scrimage, 1800+ every year, 2000+ twice. Brown's numbers are better than Reed's because he didn't have another great player like Thomas taking away touches. Reed's numbers are as impressive, if not more so, considering his situation.

The only thing that's a joke is you think that Brown belongs in the same paragraph with Rice and that he's head and shoulders above Reed. Both statements aren't remotely close to true.

[sportscardmania]

Let's stop the "if he had this QB" or "if he played for so and so team" bullsh!t. NFL careers are based on real on the field play as is HOF voting, not hypotheticals.

[migraine]

next year for sure.

[silverandblack]

I said if Brown had a great Qb he would have been up there with Rice also Brown carried those Raiders teams Reed had the benefit of defenses having to key on Thomas. Reed also didn't face nearly as many double teams as Brown and do you just discount the return game factor?

Read what I said. Jim Kelly was a HOF QB and the one Reed played with. 4 years in Reed's prime, Thurmond Thomas led the NFL in yards from scrimage, 1800+ every year, 2000+ twice. Brown's numbers are better than Reed's because he didn't have another great player like Thomas taking away touches. Reed's numbers are as impressive, if not more so, considering his situation.

The only thing that's a joke is you think that Brown belongs in the same paragraph with Rice and that he's head and shoulders above Reed. Both statements aren't remotely close to true.

[silverandblack]

OK that being said Brown is a better receiver then Reed hands down


Let's stop the "if he had this QB" or "if he played for so and so team" bullsh!t. NFL careers are based on real on the field play as is HOF voting, not hypotheticals.

[rats60]

I said if Brown had a great Qb he would have been up there with Rice also Brown carried those Raiders teams Reed had the benefit of defenses having to key on Thomas. Reed also didn't face nearly as many double teams as Brown and do you just discount the return game factor?

That's just absurd. Brown couldn't come close to Rice under any circumstance. If you switched Brown and Reed, Reed would have better numbers than Brown. You can bad mouth those Qbs, but they were a Pro Bowl Qb, a
Super Bowl winning Qb, a Qb that led the NFL in passing and a NFL MVP. You are blinded by your bias.

[silverandblack]

Aside from Gannon for a couple years at the tail end of his career he had no decent Qb. At this point it doesn't matter Reed is in and hopefully Brown gets in soon. I just think of those 2 Brown was the better player and was more deserving

[preakness]

Hope brown and Terrell Davis in 2015

[MLH]

Charles Haley has more Super Bowl rings and appearances than most franchises, still not in...

Haley was a beast no doubt but he did kinda just walk out the door of one dynasty right into another.

[sportscardmania]

Sterling Sharpe was better than all of them.

[King23dog]

In my opinion maybe Brown gets in but Reed shouldn't...

HOF in every sport has lost its meaning to me. The HOF should be for guys like Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson who can absolutely dominate a game and are clearly better than every other player at their position.

[88horsepower]

Sterling Sharpe was better than all of them.

The mind reels to think of what Sterling Sharpe's lifetime numbers would have been had he played with Favre for 15 years.

[37Jetson]

IMO Andre Reed and Tim Brown were both real good players, not Hall of Famers.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

I cannot imagine how many touchdowns Herman Moore would have scored if the Lions played on a 60 yard long field.

[sevenwings]

I'm a Broncos fan so I've seen Tim Brown a lot ,
Best receiver i ever saw second to Jerry Rice only ,
Deserved to be in before many of these wannabes , he must have done
a Jim Rice somewhere along the line

[rats60]

I'm a Broncos fan so I've seen Tim Brown a lot ,
Best receiver i ever saw second to Jerry Rice only ,
Deserved to be in before many of these wannabes , he must have done
a Jim Rice somewhere along the line

Do you mean he was the second best reciever on the Raiders after Jerry Rice came to Oakland? Actually, when the Raiders played in the Super Bowl in 2002/3, Brown was #3 in recieving on the Raiders.

Tim Brown was never 1st team All Pro, so he was never a top 2 reciever in the NFL at any point in his career. Only once was he a 2nd team All Pro (top 4 reciever). His only arguement for the HOF is he accumulated a lot of stats.

[silverandblack]

Do you mean he was the second best reciever on the Raiders after Jerry Rice came to Oakland? Actually, when the Raiders played in the Super Bowl in 2002/3, Brown was #3 in recieving on the Raiders.

Tim Brown was never 1st team All Pro, so he was never a top 2 reciever in the NFL at any point in his career. Only once was he a 2nd team All Pro (top 4 reciever). His only arguement for the HOF is he accumulated a lot of stats.

so where was Reed on these lists because my guess without looking it up is that Rice and Carter were most likely 1 and 2 with Brown being 3rd. When he retired Brown was 3rd in every major receiving category. Anyone that watched football in the 90s would be hard pressed to say Reed is a better WR then Tim Brown.

I would say its an even bigger joke that Reed went in over Harrison.

[TASS]

If already mentioned I apologize as I did not read the entire thread, but don't for one minute think that the fact Tim Brown playing for the Raiders organization did not have some 'negative influence' in the grand scheme of things!

[88horsepower]

Tim Brown was consistent and played with some utterly mediocre quarterbacks until Rich Gannon arrived near the twilight of his career. I wonder how Tim Brown would have fared with quarterbacks like those Jerry Rice and Andre Reed played with. Here's a peek at some of the quarterbacks Brown played with before Gannon got there:

Jay Schroeder
Todd Marinovich
Vince Evans
Jeff Hostetler
Bill Joe Hobert
David Klingler
Wade Wilson
Donald Hollas
Jeff George
Bobby Hoying

Anyone notice a pattern there? They all suck or are mediocre at best. That speaks to how great of a pro Tim Brown was during the stretch when he had those quarterbacks throwing to him. I didn't cherry-pick names, either. Those are ALL of the quarterbacks Brown had throwing to him when he played WR for the Raiders until Gannon got there towards the end of Brown's career. Yet, despite that list of crap tossers, Brown still accumulated excellent numbers.