Former Mizzou Michael Sam comes out of the closet

[chrisfaceoff]

Michael Sam of Missouri Tigers says he's gay - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10429030/michael-sam-missouri-tigers-says-gay)

Projected as a early round pick. Hopefully this doesn't affect his dream what so ever, though I fear it will. Good for him for being courageous to open himself up.

[Chaz]

Good for him, not anybody's problem if he likes wiener but his own as long as he doesn't try to bang his teammates I don't think there will be a problem

[slappybag]

Good for him, not anybody's problem if he likes wiener but his own as long as he doesn't try to bang his teammates I don't think there will be a problem

Passive aggressive much??? Could have just went with good for him and skipped the childish add ons. Guess we aren't quite at total acceptance yet.

[Chaz]

Passive aggressive much??? Could have just went with good for him and skipped the childish add ons. Guess we aren't quite at total acceptance yet.

What fun would that be? No problem with non straight people at all

[mwash1983]

Hey if he can help my cowboys defense it would be great.

[TheBurg]

Not gonna lie, very interested to see this play out.
Good for him, glad he had such supportive teammates and family. I wish him the best.

[Clarkandlewis]

Good for him! I also think this will wrongfully effect his NFL dream but I hope it doesn't!

[Sikkcaden]

Passive aggressive much??? Could have just went with good for him and skipped the childish add ons. Guess we aren't quite at total acceptance yet.

Considering Chaz's track record, that was very open minded and mature of him. I was impressed.

[ediii33]

Wonder if I should sell my Senior Bowl cards that I just got from him?

[Chaz]

Considering Chaz's track record, that was very open minded and mature of him. I was impressed.

Thank you sir, Homosexuality is one thing that does not bother me for some reason.

[3of5-2]

Michael Sam of Missouri Tigers says he's gay - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10429030/michael-sam-missouri-tigers-says-gay)

Projected as a early round pick. Hopefully this doesn't affect his dream what so ever, though I fear it will. Good for him for being courageous to open himself up.
I won't add any childish add ons, but why is saying you are gay courageous?

[IronMonkey415]

Good for him.

[TheBurg]

I won't add any childish add ons, but why is saying you are gay courageous?

Because it could damage his reputation and his career.

[Sikkcaden]

I won't add any childish add ons, but why is saying you are gay courageous?

Because we live in a world where people discriminate or hate you because of it. He's on the precipice of playing the nfl, a sport long viewed as extremely homophobic. It could potentially take him off of some teams draft boards.

[jlzinck]

Good for him......And now maybe we are a day closer to where this isn't a conversation.

[ekalbnz]

Good for him. Interesting time to come out now though so close before the draft.

[coltsnsox07]

I hope the Chargers draft him, he could help Teo come to terms with his sexuality.

[Sikkcaden]

Good for him......And now maybe we are a day closer to where this isn't a conversation.

A few more players, especially if they are successful and it won't be. Hopefully.

[Chaz]

:special:Good for him. Interesting time to come out now though so close before the draft.

It will be interesting to see if he falls in the draft because of it and if he sues the NFL for it. Just thinking out loud

[dherm360]

Sadly I'm going to go with, he doesn't get drafted

[jlzinck]

I hope the Chargers draft him, he could help Teo come to terms with his sexuality.

Have you had sexual relations with Mr Teo?

Just wondering why you would make this statement otherwise.

[TheFrenzy]

As a Libertarian, good for him.

As a collector, hmmm, more hype for the 2014 draft.

As a football fan, I could care less and I really hope ESPN isn't up his butt 24/7 like with Tebow.

[ediii33]

Because we live in a world where people discriminate or hate you because of it. He's on the precipice of playing the nfl, a sport long viewed as extremely homophobic. It could potentially take him off of some teams draft boards.

So just maybe its a reason to complain about your stock falling. Genius idea if you think your draft stock is falling.

Hooray for him.

[alexcampos]

Good for him......And now maybe we are a day closer to where this isn't a conversation.
That's the only thing liberals such as myself want when it comes to this stuff.

[jlzinck]

Sadly I'm going to go with, he doesn't get drafted

I don't see this happening. Maybe he drops a round there are some close minded people left to pick but he will be chosen.

Belichick will take him in a heartbeat if he is there and he's the person he wants

[ekalbnz]

Good for him......And now maybe we are a day closer to where this isn't a conversation.

^^This. Hopefully sometime in the future this sort of thing is not even newsworthy.


:special:

It will be interesting to see if he falls in the draft because of it and if he sues the NFL for it. Just thinking out loud

i don't follow College FB very close so I would have no idea where he should really be drafted. But it would not surprise me (unfortunately) if he falls out of the draft. I'm not sure how he would prove it would be due to coming out though? And could he really sue the NFL when it cannot control when he gets drafted? Would make things interesting though.

[IronMonkey415]

I'm coming out next week..You motha's better love me and respect me as well.

[55clemente]

So just maybe its a reason to complain about your stock falling. Genius idea if you think your draft stock is falling.

Hooray for him.

Or maybe the media pundits who raise this as a potential motivation are really closeted homophobes. Genius strategy if someone wants to do some gay bashing.

[3of5-2]

Because it could damage his reputation and his career.
That's courageous? I would think something like going into a burning building to save someone, or taking a bullet for the president, would be considered courageous. Let's not make being gay, greater than it really is.

[JHinGA09]

Well......... At least we know Minnesota is not going to be interested in him! :p

I wouldn't mind him dropping to the 2nd or 3rd round and have my Falcons pick him up. He measures at 6'1"-6'2", sorta short for a DE though.

[55clemente]

Good for him......And now maybe we are a day closer to where this isn't a conversation.

We'll get to that point when people stop judging a football player's worth based on his sexual orientation.

Based on the fact that there's still tons of prejudice against blacks in this country, I'd say don't hold your breath for a big move towards enlightenment.

[Ajax1723]

I don't see this happening. Maybe he drops a round there are some close minded people left to pick but he will be chosen.

Belichick will take him in a heartbeat if he is there and he's the person he wants

I actually see him going earlier than he normally would have.

The publicity to have the first openly gay player, plus the opportunity to show that an openly gay athlete can co-exist in an NFL locker room would be a huge boost for whatever franchise he goes to.

Not to mention he's a damn good football player. He's still got the combine to alter his stock a little also. And I have no doubts (after seeing the interview) that he will do great in any combine interviews he will have with teams.

[Sikkcaden]

So just maybe its a reason to complain about your stock falling. Genius idea if you think your draft stock is falling.

Hooray for him.

Right, except his draft stock isn't falling. He was/is a projected 3rd-5th rounder.

[FreeMan12406]

I won't add any childish add ons, but why is saying you are gay courageous?

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mark-Wahlberg-Confused-In-The-Happening.gif

[chrisfaceoff]

I won't add any childish add ons, but why is saying you are gay courageous?

-How it will directly affect his future.

-First (future)NFL player to come out while he is playing

-Probably the most influential sport in America, spotlight will be on him through his entire career from combine-retirement

There is quite a bit of importance to this.

[crazy4kinsler]

I'm glad he came out. Not that it's anyone's business. He's being drafted for his on-field play, not what he does off the field. He isn't doing anything illegal (unlike probably about half of the NFL). So what's the big deal!

[TheBurg]

That's courageous? I would think something like going into a burning building to save someone, or taking a bullet for the president, would be considered courageous. Let's not make being gay, greater than it really is.

Being gay isn't what's courageous about it.
There are different types and degrees of courageousness.

[chrisfaceoff]

Sadly I'm going to go with, he doesn't get drafted


I think he will for sure. He had one of the best defensive seasons for a player in the SEC. I believe he led the conference in sacks if i recall correctly.

I think it will be a chess game with teams though, who will want to take on the PR of having the first openly gay player on the team etc etc.

[55clemente]

I actually see him going earlier than he normally would have.

The publicity to have the first openly gay player, plus the opportunity to show that an openly gay athlete can co-exist in an NFL locker room would be a huge boost for whatever franchise he goes to.

Not to mention he's a damn good football player. He's still got the combine to alter his stock a little also. And I have no doubts (after seeing the interview) that he will do great in any combine interviews he will have with teams.

I don't know about him going earlier, but I'm sure the League will be monitoring the situation closely to see if there seems to be any collusive prejudice that would result in him falling out of the draft completely. At the very least, now he's semi protected by the fact that the truth is out there.

What sells it for me is that his team knew the entire season and there doesn't appear to have been a problem. That's an indicator that his orientation doesn't detract from his performance and won't be a distraction unless there are some truly cancerous personalities in his NFL locker room.

[crazy4kinsler]

Actually, I it should be who will want to take on one of the SEC's best defenders. That should have no bearing on where he gets drafted. They're drafting him for his play on the field.


I think it will be a chess game with teams though, who will want to take on the PR of having the first openly gay player on the team etc etc.

[ediii33]

Putin just let out a sigh of relief. The media in America now has something else to talk about.

[jkiddlridnour]

From my point of view and my beliefs, good for him for standing up for himself and staying true to himself. Do I agree with his lifestyle choice? No. Does that mean I have to hate the guy? No. It's his life to live and his choice to make, far too many people with my point of view only react with hate which is not how I see it at all.

[JHinGA09]

Actually, I it should be who will want to take on one of the SEC's best defenders. That should have no bearing on where he gets drafted. They're drafting him for his play on the field.

I think teams may have him drop back to a linebacker position. He's undersized as a DE at 6'1 unless he just beasts his way through the OLine.

[3of5-2]

Being gay isn't what's courageous about it.
There are different types and degrees of courageousness.
Good to know that there are different levels. Would love to comment further, but The Walking Dead just came on.

[ediii33]

From my point of view and my beliefs, good for him for standing up for himself and staying true to himself. Do I agree with his lifestyle choice? No. Does that mean I have to hate the guy? No. It's his life to live and his choice to make, far too many people with my point of view only react with hate which is not how I see it at all.

Phil Robertson stood up for his beliefs and got suspended. This guy will be deemed a hero.

[chrisfaceoff]

Actually, I it should be who will want to take on one of the SEC's best defenders. That should have no bearing on where he gets drafted. They're drafting him for his play on the field.

I agree with you completely. But I just don't think all the teams will be thinking that way sadly.

He is actually someone I wanted on the Jets in the Mid rounds. I have seen several mocks placing him there as well.

[ssbledsoe]

Good for him. Now onto the combine and then draft!

[jkiddlridnour]

Phil Robertson stood up for his beliefs and got suspended. This guy will be deemed a hero.

The media controls the public perspective.

[ediii33]

MICHAEL SAM HAS CAME OUT!!!!!:special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special::special:

[ekalbnz]

Curious, from a hobby prospective, does everyone think this will have any effect on what his cards will sell for (assuming he has some of course). Being deaf and gay are completely different matters, but I see how much Derrick Coleman SAGE has been selling for as a backup FB since it was made a lot more common knowledge that he was deaf and wonder if his stuff might sell really well (especially for a guy on defense).

[55clemente]

Phil Robertson stood up for his beliefs and got suspended. This guy will be deemed a hero.

Phil Robertson is deemed a hero by millions who share his anti-gay beliefs and criticized by those who disagree with him.

Likewise, Sam will be deemed a hero by those who feel a player's sexual orientation shouldn't matter, and criticized by those who don't think gays should be playing in the NFL.

It's all just a matter of personal opinion. Like bumholes, everybody has one.

[royprice31]

Good for him, not anybody's problem if he likes wiener but his own as long as he doesn't try to bang his teammates I don't think there will be a problem

Very True statement!!!! This shouldn't even be a story! Now if he gets drafted in the 3rd round instead of 1st or 2nd, he can call all the teams homophobes!

[fungi2510]

I am pleasently surprised with the reaction here. Jon said it best, the hope is that we are closer to this not being an issue at all. While I hope that is the direction, it will be a long time until it gets there. No matter what: Props Michael Sam!!

[friarbolt]

The guys who draw a media circus to themselves will always take a hit for that reason, and that has nothing to do with their personal beliefs.

Ajax I think it's the exact opposite of what you said, teams are gonna want to steer clear of all the baggage that will come with this. Because it's gonna be a distraction and really not worth it unless he becomes a stud player. And since nobody can know that yet given that he's just a prospect right now, I wouldn't doubt some teams shy away from taking him completely.

[corndog]

Curious, from a hobby prospective, does everyone think this will have any effect on what his cards will sell for (assuming he has some of course). Being deaf and gay are completely different matters, but I see how much Derrick Coleman SAGE has been selling for as a backup FB since it was made a lot more common knowledge that he was deaf and wonder if his stuff might sell really well (especially for a guy on defense).

Deaf people collect cards of deaf players. There are a strong contingent of deaf collectors who pay high for cards they need.

[TheBurg]

Very True statement!!!! This shouldn't even be a story! Now if he gets drafted in the 3rd round instead of 1st or 2nd, he can call all the teams homophobes!

He was never going to be an early pick. Too small.

[fungi2510]

Deaf collectors collect cards of deaf players. There are a strong contingent of deaf collectors who pay high for cards they need.

The LGBT community is much larger and had many collectors.

[WilsonValdez]

I actually see him going earlier than he normally would have.

The publicity to have the first openly gay player, plus the opportunity to show that an openly gay athlete can co-exist in an NFL locker room would be a huge boost for whatever franchise he goes to.

Not to mention he's a damn good football player. He's still got the combine to alter his stock a little also. And I have no doubts (after seeing the interview) that he will do great in any combine interviews he will have with teams.

I could not disagree more. In an idealistic world, this is what would happen. In reality, it just doesn't happen like that. Hell, no team would even take Jason Collins as a benchwarmer, in what (in theory) would be an easy PR move.

Not convinced? Read how NFL personnel/execs talk anonymously (ie. how they'll talk when deciding whether they want him on their team):

How will news that Michael Sam is gay affect NFL draft stock? - College Football - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/?eref=sihp)

He'll make a team (if he's good enough) but it's DEFINITELY not going to help his stock.

[fungi2510]

Jason Collins was washed up. No one wanted him before. Sam is a different story. Let's see how it plays out before making absolutes.

[ekalbnz]

Deaf people collect cards of deaf players. There are a strong contingent of deaf collectors who pay high for cards they need.

So would the same not be for the gay community? I'm sure there is bound to be a few collectors who are gay themselves and who will want his cards and drive the prices up.

The LGBT community is much larger and had many collectors.

^^This!

[WilsonValdez]

Jason Collins was washed up. No one wanted him before. Sam is a different story. Let's see how it plays out before making absolutes.

Mmmkay, the only point that I was making was that it didn't help him. Talent-wise he was certainly good enough to be a veteran presence/benchwarmer...but that's not really that relevant.

[preakness]

SEC.


J. Collins came out last off season in NBA and nobody signed him but he was already on waivers before he came out.

This guy will be first to openly come out in football as far as I know.

Not sure about hockey or horse racing.

Not sure about BO.

[mikeyp]

Why was he in a closet?

Sorry I'm late to the thread.

[alexcampos]

Why was he in a closet?
Because society is still immature about people who are different than the majority and thus we coined the term "In the closet" to gay people who fear the backlash of others who are still the mental age of 10 year olds.

Once again....good for Michael Sam, and good for the LGBT community.

[JohnRyno]

He was never going to be an early pick. Too small.

that's what he said

beeyyyaaahhhh

[corndog]

Because society is still immature about people who are different than the majority and thus we coined the term "In the closet" to gay people who fear the backlash of others who are still the mental age of 10 year olds.

Once again....good for Michael Sam, and good for the LGBT community.

Maturity? 10 year olds?

Well, that is how you see it...

[ninjacookies]

SEC Defensive Player of the Year.

Finally an actual 'legitimately' good player that's willing to stake his career on this. Everyone else up to this point has either been retired or towards the twilight of their career and stood nothing to lose, only gain a la book deals and publicity tours.

Wish him luck, but I'm not quite sure this is going to help his draft stock (would be interesting to see a placebo study on a gay vs. non gay player and their relative draft positions vs. projected positions)

[migraine]

Good for him:)!:)!:)!:)!:)!:)!:)!:)!

[migraine]

I'm coming out next week..You motha's better love me and respect me as well.

me too:special::special::special::special::special:

[preakness]

I couldn't be more indifferent on the subject.
Good for him.
Good for everyone else who is either straight or gay.

Now, more importantly, can the bears get him in the 3rd round?

[MarshallCutler6]

I couldn't be more indifferent on the subject.
Good for him.
Good for everyone else who is either straight or gay.

Now, more importantly, can the bears get him in the 3rd round?

I hope so. Get Mosley in the first, a saftey in the second, and him in the third. Should be nothing but defense all draft.

[fungi2510]

Mmmkay, the only point that I was making was that it didn't help him. Talent-wise he was certainly good enough to be a veteran presence/benchwarmer...but that's not really that relevant.

He wasn't good enough and that is relevant. Someone who finally belongs in one of the big three has declared they are gay. It is a huge moment. I know we are arguing nothing here, but I don't like your answer of it hurting his stock. We will see.

[1eyed_jack]

Maturity? 10 year olds?

Well, that is how you see it...

Out of curiosity, how do you see it?

[TimGeezy]

Dude's going to make a ton of money by coming out before the draft. Guarantee an agent got wind of it and told him to go ahead and come out. He'll be on everything from The Today Show to Oprah. Guarantee he'll have a book out in 2 years time.

[addicted36]

Because it could damage his reputation and his career.

Timing of this couldnt be worse for him, not sure that was the smartest thing to do for him but I applaud him for coming out and pray that the NFL doesnt hurt him because of it. If this was me I would have said this after being drafted, but I suppose he did this now so he went to a team that was gay friendly

[Cavaliercards]

Timing of this couldnt be worse for him, not sure that was the smartest thing to do for him but I applaud him for coming out and pray that the NFL doesnt hurt him because of it. If this was me I would have said this after being drafted, but I suppose he did this now so he went to a team that was gay friendly

He seemed to do it more because questions were being asked about his sexuality and he wanted to dictate the terms of his coming out.

[IndySportsCards]

I can see the Ravens drafting him. That's it.

[ekalbnz]

One positive from the whole J-Martin situation: I'm guessing he would have got a lot more "hazing" before that happened that what he will now.

[ekalbnz]

I can see the Ravens drafting him. That's it.

It would not surprise me to see the Patriots draft him, especially if he falls to the later rounds.

[WilsonValdez]

He wasn't good enough and that is relevant. Someone who finally belongs in one of the big three has declared they are gay. It is a huge moment. I know we are arguing nothing here, but I don't like your answer of it hurting his stock. We will see.

Yes, you are arguing nothing...Nobody has said anything about it not being a huge moment.
Again, not saying what I want or hope to see, just that it will not HELP him. I'm sorry that you don't like my answer of it hurting his stock. Maybe you'd like these guys answers a little more:

The news that former Missouri defensive end Michael Sam is gay holds significant social and cultural ramifications. But from a purely football perspective, his decision to come out prior to May's NFL draft will make his path to the league daunting, eight NFL executives and coaches told SI.com.

In blunt terms, they project a significant drop in Sam's draft stock, a publicity circus and an NFL locker room culture not prepared to deal with an openly gay player. Sam, the SEC Defensive Player of the Year, was projected as a mid- to late-round draft pick prior to his announcement.

While none of the executives overtly condemned Sam's decision, their opinions illuminated an NFL culture in which an openly gay player -- from the draft room to the locker room -- faces long odds and a lonely path.

The executives and coaches were granted anonymity by SI.com for their honesty. Their answers were consistently unsparing.

Read More: How will news that Michael Sam is gay affect NFL draft stock? - College Football - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/#ixzz2st2vwKit)

[addicted36]

He seemed to do it more because questions were being asked about his sexuality and he wanted to dictate the terms of his coming out.

Every single player in the past drafts and this one are asked round about questions about sexuality, nothing is ever asked directly as that is illegal. He should know this already as everyone gets the same treatment

[GoJays]

This will negatively affect his draft position. Not because of homophobia, but because of fear of major distraction and other issues.

Or a team could draft him top five as a publicity stunt, i don't know anymore. Good luck to him, unfortunately it could be a rough ride.

[trixstar]

From my point of view and my beliefs, good for him for standing up for himself and staying true to himself. Do I agree with his lifestyle choice? No. Does that mean I have to hate the guy? No. It's his life to live and his choice to make, far too many people with my point of view only react with hate which is not how I see it at all.

People don't choose to be gay.

anyway here's MMQB article oni t

Michael Sam's coming out as gay before draft tests NFL's mindset | The MMQB with Peter King (http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/09/michael-sam-monday-morning-quarterback/)

“Unfortunately, this is a lot more okay in society than it is in lots of locker rooms. Some locker rooms are still stuck in the ’50s.” —NFL scout

The news spread quickly across the NFL Sunday night. Then again, the New York Times report about mid-round draft prospect Michael Sam, the Missouri defensive end, coming out as gay two weeks before the scouting combine and 12 weeks before the draft wasn’t a surprise to every team in the league.

I spoke to four club officials Sunday—three general managers, one scout—and the reaction to a third-round prospect being gay ran the gamut. I spoke to all anonymously, because with such a touchy subject, I assumed all would either no-comment me (and one other GM did) or say something so sanitized it wouldn’t really be the truth. I don’t like to do anonymous sources to write an entire story, but I felt in this case it would give the best information possible.

“Should I really care?” one GM said. “Is it going to be that big a deal? Aren’t we beyond this?”

“It’s not a shocking thing to me, and it won’t be to our organization,” another GM said. “You’ll have old-school guys on your team saying, ‘Are you kidding, putting this guy on our team?’ And you’ll have other guys say, ‘Who cares? I knew two gay guys who came out in college.’ “

“It’ll totally depend on your leadership,” the scout said. “A team with strong leadership at coach and in the locker room, like New England, I would imagine, would be okay. I could see Belichick say, ‘This is the way it is. There’s no story.’ And guys would just accept him. There’d be no choice. But without that strong leadership, I could see it being divisive, and I could see a team saying, ‘We don’t need this.’ “

Two team reps didn’t know the story when we spoke, with me not naming names and simply asking what would happen if, as I expected, a gay player would be coming out before the combine. One GM said he’d heard that Sam might be the player. But the fourth, a general manager, said he not only knew the story and that Sam was the player—his team had discussed it at draft meetings in the past few days.

“We talked about it this week,” the GM said. “First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed. He’s not going to get drafted where he thinks he should. The question you will ask yourself, knowing your team, is, ‘How will drafting him affect your locker room?’ And I am sorry to say where we are at this point in time, I think it’s going to affect most locker rooms. A lot of guys will be uncomfortable. Ten years from now, fine. But today, I think being openly gay is a factor in the locker room.”

I asked this general manager: “Do you think he’ll be drafted?”

“No,” he said.

Sam is from Hitchcock, Texas, near Galveston on the Gulf Coast. He led the SEC this year in combined sacks and tackles for loss and was voted the SEC Defensive Player of the Year. But he is smallish for an NFL defensive end or pass rushing outside linebacker at 6-1 ½ and 260 pounds. He earned unanimous first-team All-America honors for Missouri, and teamed with first-round prospect Kony Ealy to form one of the best pressure rushing combinations in college football. Before the bombshell, Sam was rated as a third- or fourth-round prospect by many draft outlets. Mel Kiper had him as a fourth-rounder, pre-announcement, on ESPN Sunday night.

As a 4-3 defensive end in college football, his size is good and acceptable, even if he’s not as athletic as some smaller defensive ends. But NFL personnel people fear a player of his size, who is not very quick, will be neutralized by the bigger, athletic NFL tackles. But there are some teams that use lots of situational pass rushers who could find a role for Sam if he were a good and willing special-teams ace. And it’s likely he would be. He has a reputation for being a team guy willing to do what his coaches ask. His teammates at Missouri obviously like him a lot. He told them about his sexuality before last season, and they kept his secret for him.

“A team with strong leadership at coach and in the locker room, like New England, I would imagine, would be okay. … But without that strong leadership, I could see it being divisive, and I could see a team saying, ‘We don’t need this.’ ” —NFL scout

“I just wanted to make sure I could tell my story the way I wanted to,” Sam told the Times. “I just want to own my truth.”

Three of the four men had praise for Sam for coming out before the combine. Whatever the reason for Sam wanting to make his sexuality public, doing it now allows teams to meet on the issue, discuss it at length, and interview him about it. “The big factor here is that the initial storm will come now, and not after he’s drafted, like maybe he was trying to hide it,” one GM said. “That’s a big factor in his favor. Very big.”

As this GM said, if a player makes a bombshell announcement before the combine, and allows every team to interrogate him about it, he stands a better chance of the story burning out before the player ever reports to training camp. What could doom the player, he said, would be hiding this when it was likely to come out—either by the player or some other way. Teams do not like surprises. If they knew Sam came out to his team at Missouri last year—which is the word on the NFL street—and then wouldn’t tell teams prior to the draft, his team could feel betrayed.

The first GM—the one who seemed not to care about the announcement—asks the questions that much of society would ask. Should this matter as much as it will matter over the next few days? But Jonathan Vilma, the veteran Saints linebacker and team leader, told NFL Network last week he thought a gay player “would not be accepted as much as we think he would be accepted.”

“Unfortunately,” the scout said, agreeing with Vilma, “this is a lot more okay in society than it is in lots of locker rooms. Some locker rooms are still stuck in the ’50s.”

That’s why it’s naïve to suggest Sam coming out will have no effect on where he’s drafted, as the respected Kiper said on ESPN Sunday night. It could be that a liberal owner and progressive coach like Jeffrey Lurie and Chip Kelly of the Eagles will not care at all, and if he’s there in the fourth or fifth round will grab him.

More on Michael Sam

While we don't know yet how the NFL will accept Michael Sam, there is one word for his decision to come out, Jon Wertheim writes—progress. FULL STORY

Pete Thamel and Thayer Evans polled more NFL executives to gauge how Sam's draft status will bei mpacted by his decision. FULL STORY
I believe the majority of teammates wherever Sam goes will be accepting and supportive. But we’ve just seen the damage caused by the Incognito/Martin fracas in Miami, and the quasi-caveman attitude shown all too often by players. And the team that takes Sam has to know what the trailblazing aspect of his presence will bring: the news shows as well as sports shows, the constant buzz when the team goes on the road, the slurs bound to come his way sometime. And they’ll have to decide if it’s worth it to say they’re going to do the right thing and admit a human being who is gay to the team.

During the draft, a team that has Sam graded barely above another pass-rush prospect in the third or fourth round may ask itself: Will all the distractions—the network news trucks, the questioning of his teammates about accepting a gay teammate—be worth it? Or should we just draft the other guy and not worry about Sam’s off-field stuff?

The Michael Sam news cycle has just begun. The NFL’s a very big deal in our society. Now we’ll see if he can be a football player only, and not the center of attention to the media and 32 teams in the league.

“We look forward to welcoming and supporting Michael Sam in 2014,” the NFL said in a statement Sunday night.

Everyone hopes that’s true.

[Chaz]

People don't choose to be gay.

Yes they do

[trixstar]

Why the anger? We choose who we love? And who we want to be in a relationship with? I don't get the whole they don't choose to be gay answer? Sorry I did not mean to make you mad

lol I'm not mad at all, and you don't choose who you love man that's just ridiculous. Love is something you either feel or you don't feel and who in their right mind would choose to be gay? If someone is heterosexual would you describe them as 'choosing' to be straight? Do people 'choose' to be born black or white or Asian? Being a homosexual isn't something people choose it is just who and what they are.

If a person choses to be gay then when did you chose to be straight? I mean honestly if it's easier being straight and fitting in wouldnt you think that person will choose to be straight and try not to draw attention to themselves? What idiotic person is going to be different so they could be picked on for the rest of their life?

[friarbolt]

Page 4 until this thread went off the rails well done BO is that some kind of record?

[Chaz]

I'm straight because that's how I was raised probably? I have a couple buddies that I went to high school with and played sports with and they banged chicks in high school just like I did and now are gay? That what they chose to be? I don't care why they chose to do it and I don't care because they are still my friends

[clocsta2323]

People don't choose to be gay.

You state this as fact. Any scientific evidence? I don't argue one way or another but this is a baseless claim lacking ANY evidence. Some gay individuals say they were born gay and a lot of others say they were attracted only to the opposite sex for a long period of their lives. It comes down to attraction and sometimes *gasp* people develop different attractions.

[migraine]

Yes they do

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[alexcampos]

Yes they do

Did you choose to be straight?

One day, did you see a boy and a girl and said: "Hmm....I guess I'll choose the girl."

Is that the way it happens?

I'm straight because that's how I was raised probably? I have a couple buddies that I went to high school with and played sports with and they banged chicks in high school just like I did and now are gay? That what they chose to be? I don't care why they chose to do it and I don't care because they are still my friends

Actually, that's pretty normal.

Some gay men try very desperately to disassociate themselves from their sexual orientation and thus they try to overcompensate.

This is why some gay men also marry women and even have families until they just can't live with the lie anymore and come out.

It's happened many times.

Also.....maybe they are bisexual, that's another possibility.

[alexcampos]

You state this as fact. Any scientific evidence? I don't argue one way or another but this is a baseless claim lacking ANY evidence. Some gay individuals say they were born gay and a lot of others say they were attracted only to the opposite sex for a long period of their lives. It comes down to attraction and sometimes *gasp* people develop different attractions.
Oh goody, you want evidence.

Well, I happen to LOVE evidence.

So, I'll tell you what the experts say on this matter:

The American Psychological Association says the following regarding homosexuality:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

Source: http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

And of course, in nature itself, there are over 1,500 species that display homosexuality....

Source: http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx


So, lets use a little common sense and rationality......why would a person CHOOSE to be gay in a society that for the most part has always frowned upon them?

Why would a person CHOOSE to be gay and then kill themselves because they feel there is something wrong with them? Many young teens do so due to bullying.....couldn't they just CHOOSE to be straight?

[ninjacookies]

Why the anger? We choose who we love? And who we want to be in a relationship with? I don't get the whole they don't choose to be gay answer? Sorry I did not mean to make you mad

Can someone force you to enjoy being in a homosexual relationship?

Can someone force someone to be attracted to blondes and not brunettes?

Can someone force someone to be physically more attracted to asian woman as opposed to caucasian women?


It's been said once and it will remain the same story every time: those bible thumpers who claim homosexuality is a choice are not living in reality, or perhaps a self-created 'idealistic' reality.



I can understand the difficulty with which a GM would be faced with in deciding to draft an openly gay player. The thing is, our society has become way too oversensitive to these issues, which creates a double-edged sword.

It means increased equal rights and civil treatment for minorities (good), but at the same time leads to people constantly walking on eggshells and filing frivelous lawsuits.

Who's to say that a gay player won't come forward and pull a Jonathan Martin after homophobic slurs were tossed around in the locker room all in jest? Again..reality...nfl locker rooms will forever be a grounds for off-color humor no matter what.

I'd hope everyone would be adult enough to handle it responsibly, both on the Sam's and his teammates parts. It's a two-way street.

POSTGAME INTERVIEW: Michael Sam after winning the Cotton Bowl - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm2QHL3iz5I)

That vid was a month ago...and following Michael's recounted sequence of events...was well after he had already openly come out to his teammates.

Notice that kiss?

These are college kids. And I'm pretty sure the NFL is no longer stuck in the medieval era. There will always be those who oppose the lifestyle, but I think the great majority who do are willing to put aside their differences in order to win some ballgames.

[JHinGA09]

Notice that kiss?

These are college kids. And I'm pretty sure the NFL is no longer stuck in the medieval era. There will always be those who oppose the lifestyle, but I think the great majority who do are willing to put aside their differences in order to win some ballgames.

The NFL isn't stuck, but a lot of the fans still are.
And a lot of owners would be considered 'old money.' A lot of folks are just set in their ways, and once they are set, you just simply can't 'uproot' them. Some folks take it to their grave. It's a shame, but it's how they wanna live and die.

[stryke3_mb]

People choose whether or not to act on their homosexual feelings and desires. That's how they "choose to be gay". The natural thing will always be heterosexual feelings. It's the way people were created. Somewhere along the way though, homosexual desires manifested. That's where the choice lies. Do you hide it, try to overcome it, or accept this as being who you are? I've heard of rare occasions where people say they chose a homosexual lifestyle "just because", but most experience feelings and attraction for the same sex. I don't think anybody truly thinks it's that kind of nonchalant choice for the bulk of people who practice homosexuality. As you said, of course nobody wants to feel left out or be picked on. I would safely assume nobody would ever choose that.

The comparison of race & sexuality has never really made sense to me. Skin color & other physical characteristics are just that...physical. Homosexuality is a mental and emotional set of feelings. It's very tricky to compare the two, especially in a casual manner. The only way I can compare is if a guy is "physically" born as a male, the natural thing is for him to be attracted to females (the mental & emotional part). I'm not in any way saying there is a "gay gene", but being attracted to the same sex is comparable to a recessive trait. It's not the norm. There is no chance of a person being born into another ethnic group than their parents. So that's why I have trouble comparing the two. Hopefully that makes sense.

No matter whether you agree with it or not, you should always have love & respect for EVERYONE. If someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean they are a horrible person and hate you. Those are lessons both sides of the argument should abide by. Unfortunately, these days it seems there is too much misunderstanding and a readiness to quickly attack those who see things differently....

lol I'm not mad at all, and you don't choose who you love man that's just ridiculous. Love is something you either feel or you don't feel and who in their right mind would choose to be gay? If someone is heterosexual would you describe them as 'choosing' to be straight? Do people 'choose' to be born black or white or Asian? Being a homosexual isn't something people choose it is just who and what they are.

If a person choses to be gay then when did you chose to be straight? I mean honestly if it's easier being straight and fitting in wouldnt you think that person will choose to be straight and try not to draw attention to themselves? What idiotic person is going to be different so they could be picked on for the rest of their life?

[ekalbnz]

People choose whether or not to act on their homosexual feelings and desires. That's how they "choose to be gay". The natural thing will always be heterosexual feelings. It's the way people were created. Somewhere along the way though, homosexual desires manifested. That's where the choice lies. Do you hide it, try to overcome it, or accept this as being who you are? I've heard of rare occasions where people say they chose a homosexual lifestyle "just because", but most experience feelings and attraction for the same sex. I don't think anybody truly thinks it's that kind of nonchalant choice for the bulk of people who practice homosexuality. As you said, of course nobody wants to feel left out or be picked on. I would safely assume nobody would ever choose that.

The comparison of race & sexuality has never really made sense to me. Skin color & other physical characteristics are just that...physical. Homosexuality is a mental and emotional set of feelings. It's very tricky to compare the two, especially in a casual manner. The only way I can compare is if a guy is "physically" born as a male, the natural thing is for him to be attracted to females (the mental & emotional part). I'm not in any way saying there is a "gay gene", but being attracted to the same sex is comparable to a recessive trait. It's not the norm. There is no chance of a person being born into another ethnic group than their parents. So that's why I have trouble comparing the two. Hopefully that makes sense.

No matter whether you agree with it or not, you should always have love & respect for EVERYONE. If someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean they are a horrible person and hate you. Those are lessons both sides of the argument should abide by. Unfortunately, these days it seems there is too much misunderstanding and a readiness to quickly attack those who see things differently....

Wow! I strongly disagree with that! Choosing to have those feelings in the first place and choosing to act on them is completely different. But that is all I am going to say about the matter because I think a football card thread is not the place to have that sort of debate/argument.

[ediii33]

Oh goody, you want evidence.

Well, I happen to LOVE evidence.

So, I'll tell you what the experts say on this matter:

The American Psychological Association says the following regarding homosexuality:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

Source: Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality (http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx)

And of course, in nature itself, there are over 1,500 species that display homosexuality....

Source: 1,500 animal species practice homosexuality (http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx)


So, lets use a little common sense and rationality......why would a person CHOOSE to be gay in a society that for the most part has always frowned upon them?

Why would a person CHOOSE to be gay and then kill themselves because they feel there is something wrong with them? Many young teens do so due to bullying.....couldn't they just CHOOSE to be straight?

The same reason they choose to steal, murder or rape. Its their choice.

[alexcampos]

People choose whether or not to act on their homosexual feelings and desires. That's how they "choose to be gay". The natural thing will always be heterosexual feelings. It's the way people were created.
Explain a few things for me then....

In Nazi Germany, Hitler rounded up more than just the Jews, he rounded up Homosexuals....

Why under the threat of death, did these people simply CHOOSE not to be gay anymore?

Why under the threat of death or imprisonment such as the middle east and India are people still gay today?

Why under the threat of simple social backlash does ANYONE choose to be gay?

Why are there 1,500 species in nature that DO participate in homosexual activity but somehow you think the human species is an exception to the natural laws and they can simply choose this behavior?

Why do so many gay people kill themselves because they feel that there is something wrong with them (of course it is society that has told them there is something wrong with them)....why couldn't they simply choose not to be gay anymore?

Why is it that American Psychological Association that has studied this a lot more than anyone on this forum say that most people can NOT choose their sexual orientation?

How is any of this possible if you are correct?

[alexcampos]

The same reason they choose to steal, murder or rape. Its their choice.
And is it logical or rational to believe that millions of Americans and millions more around the world choose to be like this when all the evidence contradicts it?

Again, this is simple.

If gays could really choose to be gay, then that means that straights can also choose.

So, I'll ask again, did anyone on here choose to be straight.

I know I didn't.

[ekalbnz]

Why are there 1,500 species in nature that DO participate in homosexual activity but somehow you think the human species is an exception to the natural laws and they can simply choose this behavior?

^^This! Same sex activity happens a lot more in "nature" than most people care/are willingly to admit.

[preakness]

Just saw Espn segment.
Even though he was co defensive MVP on SEC, he is ranked as the 16th best defensive end in this year's draft.

He's a tweener. Too small for typical DE.

He should get drafted but I think my 3-5 round hope for bears might be too high.
He might be 5-6 round.

[ekalbnz]

Just saw Espn segment.
Even though he was co defensive MVP on SEC, he is ranked as the 16th best defensive end in this year's draft.

He's a tweener. Too small for typical DE.

He should get drafted but I think my 3-5 round hope for bears might be too high.
He might be 5-6 round.

It does look that way. I wonder if he could transition into a 3-4 LB.

[775nicholsr98]

NFL Draft Projections have him as a mid-round pick, maybe even 3rd round. AP SEC Defensive Player of the year. They think he could switch to outside linebacker, they have him ranked as the 12th best outside pass rusher in the draft by ESPN Scout. All I would care about is if he can help my defense.....
Wishing him well and guess we'll know on draft day.....:)!

[ekalbnz]

With this talk of Sam being undersized, Sam is pretty much the same size as Robert Mathis.

[GoClips!]

The only thing that is a choice in this thread is homophobia...

[balling916]

The only thing that is a choice in this thread is homophobia...

Bingo! :)!

[free2131]

The natural thing will always be heterosexual feelings.

Homosexuality IS in fact natural, because it happens IN NATURE. A human sprouting wings out of his ass and flying wouldn't be natural since it DOESN'T happen in nature.

[corndog]

Chaz you're a f'n moron and an insensitive prick so I don't really take what you say very seriously

Getting all irate because others believe differently than you? Very typical of the intolerant.

Sir, YOU have a problem, and that goes also to anyone else who gets all huffy and defensive and throws out words like homophobic, stuck in the old way, don't know facts, intolerant, etc.
When someone believes differently than you, your first line of discussion should not be to bombard them with name-calling. :)!

[free2131]

Getting all irate because others believe differently than you? Very typical of the intolerant.

Sir, YOU have a problem, and that goes also to anyone else who gets all huffy and defensive and throws out words like homophobic, stuck in the old way, don't know facts, intolerant, etc.
When someone believes differently than you, your first line of discussion should not be to bombard them with name-calling. :)!

I don't think people would get on the offensive as fast if a good percentage of the people who "don't believe" that homosexual relationships are "correct" didn't also think that because they personally do not like it that they somehow have the right to force what they believe onto other people.

It's almost like these people think allowing gay people the same rights as heterosexual people will somehow effect their own heterosexual relationships or that they will be forced into a wedding with someone of the same sex.

[jlzinck]

Nice Nazi references! Cool.

I'm gay, my wife is gay (although less gay at work because she doesn't like some of the people she works with) and we are married so I have a gay marriage.

It's a shame when a word changes it's meaning in the daily lexicon.

[1eyed_jack]

Getting all irate because others believe differently than you? Very typical of the intolerant.

Sir, YOU have a problem, and that goes also to anyone else who gets all huffy and defensive and throws out words like homophobic, stuck in the old way, don't know facts, intolerant, etc.
When someone believes differently than you, your first line of discussion should not be to bombard them with name-calling. :)!

What's there to believe though?

It's not Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, or Bigfoot. It's homosexual people, and they are 100% real, so how can you not believe in it?

[IamRalpho]

Nice Nazi references! Cool.

I'm gay, my wife is gay (although less gay at work because she doesn't like some of the people she works with) and we are married so I have a gay marriage.

It's a shame when a word changes it's meaning in the daily lexicon.

Gives me hope that I can have a happy marriage too when I get to your age

(See what I did that :special: )

Anyways, I am a pessimist, I think this hurts his draft stock and I can see him going undrafted. I HOPE not, I really do. Amazing what he is doing, the timing of it especially.

Hopefully one day this isnt a big deal, but right now, it is and I hope this kid isnt punished for his lifestyle.

[stryke3_mb]

Wow! I strongly disagree with that! Choosing to have those feelings in the first place and choosing to act on them is completely different.

If you'll read the rest of my post, I did separate the two... For clarity to what I was saying, just read further than the first couple of lines.


Why is it that American Psychological Association that has studied this a lot more than anyone on this forum say that most people can NOT choose their sexual orientation?

How is any of this possible if you are correct?

I clearly state in my post that most people don't simply "choose" to have homosexual attractions. The choice is acting upon those desires. Again, I discuss this further into my post.

[fullmetal]

Phil Robertson stood up for his beliefs and got suspended. This guy will be deemed a hero.

Not if he causes a distraction amongst his coworkers. Employers don't like distractions, not matter the reason or the beliefs around that reason.


Look at it from the business prospective only. Could you market it to your advantage? Certainly. Could it cause detriment to the chemistry and culture of your organization? Certainly. Management must weigh these risks and rewards and act accordingly.

[fullmetal]

Homosexuality IS in fact natural, because it happens IN NATURE. A human sprouting wings out of his ass and flying wouldn't be natural since it DOESN'T happen in nature.

Yet. One day it just might. Actually, it will certainly happen eventually.

[stryke3_mb]

With this talk of Sam being undersized, Sam is pretty much the same size as Robert Mathis.

That's a very good comparison. He has all the tools to possibly be a dominating force in the NFL. There's no doubt about it! BUT, while Mathis has been a star in Indianapolis....he was still drafted in about the 5th round if I'm remembering correctly. The level of competition Mathis faced in college had something to do with his late round pick as well. I see Sam possibly going earlier. This little bit of news may change a few teams' minds, but I still think he'll go in rounds 3-4.

[Brando19]

I don't understand why it's such a big deal when someone announces they're gay. I would love it if a player held a press conference to announce he's straight.

[Tim]

Chaz you're a f'n moron and an insensitive prick so I don't really take what you say very seriously

easily the worst post in this thread and very disappointed that both sides of the aisle didn't condemn this personal attack and lack of tolerance for another person's views. wow.

[asujbl]

I don't understand why it's such a big deal when someone announces they're gay. I would love it if a player held a press conference to announce he's straight.

Why do people always say this as if it's apples to apples? It's flat out ridiculous.

The next time a straight guy gets hated on because of his sexual preference than this can be brought into the discussion.

This thread alone - and some of the replies - are evidence enough of why it's a big deal - and this is the smallest microcosim of society we could ask for.

It's the end of the South Park "Wheel of Fortune" episdoe when Stan kept telling Token that "I get it. I get it" when Token was upset - and in reality Stan never got it, and never could get it, and that's what he finally realized at the end.

Straight guys telling gay guys to "keep it to yourself. I don't announce I'm straight" is the definition of someone not getting it because they'll never go through it.

[jlzinck]

.

The next time a straight guy gets hated on because of his sexual preference than this can be brought into the discussion.
.

On more than 1 occasion I have been yelled at and called a "Breeder" while walking around Provincetown MA.

What did I do other than take a walk with my wife?

[asujbl]

On more than 1 occasion I have been yelled at and called a "Breeder" while walking around Provincetown MA.

What did I do other than take a walk with my wife?

Kids ruin everything. You can't even walk with your wife anymore.

[3of5-2]

There is only One resolution to this whole subject, and it is coming sooner than some would like, but not soon enough for others, but the timing will be perfect. What we do in the meantime will be on us, on both sides.

[Brando19]

Why do people always say this as if it's apples to apples? It's flat out ridiculous.

The next time a straight guy gets hated on because of his sexual preference than this can be brought into the discussion.

This thread alone - and some of the replies - are evidence enough of why it's a big deal - and this is the smallest microcosim of society we could ask for.

It's the end of the South Park "Wheel of Fortune" episdoe when Stan kept telling Token that "I get it. I get it" when Token was upset - and in reality Stan never got it, and never could get it, and that's what he finally realized at the end.

Straight guys telling gay guys to "keep it to yourself. I don't announce I'm straight" is the definition of someone not getting it because they'll never go through it.

I think sexuality should remain private. Now since he "came out", he's going to be followed and put on a pedestal by the media. And what better time to come out than before the draft? It's just silly. This entire draft is going to be about this one player just because he announces he's gay. I have several gay friends...so don't label me. But think about it...he comes out before the draft. He sees $$$.

[rynogeis]

What a gay story.

[asujbl]

I think sexuality should remain private. Now since he "came out", he's going to be followed and put on a pedestal by the media. And what better time to come out than before the draft? It's just silly. This entire draft is going to be about this one player just because he announces he's gay. I have several gay friends...so don't label me. But think about it...he comes out before the draft. He sees $$$.

It's easy to say your sexuality should remain private when you've never been hated on because of it.

[Lionsman81]

I don't see why anybody should give a crap about this. Great for him he is out living his life I just don't see why this is News

[wheeler281]

Good Deal for the young man. Hope everything works out for him. At the end of the day it was smart move for him pre draft so at least most of the hard questions would have been done. Heaven forbid he got a gm like Ireland in front of him.

[Sikkcaden]

I think sexuality should remain private. Now since he "came out", he's going to be followed and put on a pedestal by the media. And what better time to come out than before the draft? It's just silly. This entire draft is going to be about this one player just because he announces he's gay. I have several gay friends...so don't label me. But think about it...he comes out before the draft. He sees $$$.

Shot in the dark here, but I assume you also use the phrase "I have several black friends" as well?

[arkeeper]

I think sexuality should remain private. Now since he "came out", he's going to be followed and put on a pedestal by the media. And what better time to come out than before the draft? It's just silly. This entire draft is going to be about this one player just because he announces he's gay. I have several gay friends...so don't label me. But think about it...he comes out before the draft. He sees $$$.


Any time is better. As many have said, it probably won't help his draft position and will most likely hurt it.

Sexuality should be private, but the teams ask about it in a roundabout way, and society hates people for what they choose, and the media would have been digging after every rumor. What should be and what actually is are two very different things.

Ignorance is bliss.

[preakness]

Wait, that means he's possibly having sexual relations before marriage!!!???

Well, I'll be.

;)

[Brando19]

I don't see why anybody should give a crap about this. Great for him he is out living his life I just don't see why this is News

I agree 100%.

[Brando19]

Shot in the dark here, but I assume you also use the phrase "I have several black friends" as well?

You're right that's a shot in the dark. You don't know me. How do you know I'm not black?

[legion624]

There is a lot of talk going on that he did this so he was the one to announce it and not some news report. It was supposedly common knowledge with scouts so he wanted to be pro-active and announce it before a team had to ask him about it. No big deal to me, do what you want.

[legion624]

You're right that's a shot in the dark. You don't know me. How do you know I'm not black?

Because only white people like the pack? J/K, trying to lighten the mood.

[groundsupport]

I don't see why anybody should give a crap about this. Great for him he is out living his life I just don't see why this is News

Yep, and the news is why he will fall in the draft. Teams don't want to media circus/distraction that this will cause.

Good for him to come out and be proud of who he is. But bad for the media who will beat a dead horse with the story.

[solt0131]

ESPN is taking this story and running a full 24 hour blitz on it along with Marcus Smart. If you want every opinion, fact and tidbit on either of these 2, just tune in at any time on any of the 8 ESPN networks.

[Sikkcaden]

ESPN is taking this story and running a full 24 hour blitz on it along with Marcus Smart. If you want every opinion, fact and tidbit on either of these 2, just tune in at any time on any of the 8 ESPN networks.

There's nothing really going on right now, which makes the time of this a tad unbearable. The winter olympics are going on, but there's no significant superstar names currently (ie Phelps, Ono) that can lead the conversation. NBA All-Star Weekend can't come soon enough.

[wheeler281]

Yep, and the news is why he will fall in the draft. Teams don't want to media circus/distraction that this will cause.


The rnds he will go in it would not affect his pay scale anyways. So no biggy

Its not his fault its a story. He wanted to control when it was revealed and I do not blame him. This is the climate we live in. Everyone trying to out someone for anything. If it was me I would want to tell the world before someone else did. So kudos to him

[Rule]

Jonathan Vilma though.... -.-

"Imagine if he's the guy next to me and I get dressed naked, taking a shower, the whole nine [yards], and it just so happens he looks at me. How am I supposed to respond?"

WHO DAT?! lmao

[millertime]

I would hope teams would focus on the positives of drafting an openly gay player. Not only would they be getting a great football player, they would show how progressive they are and open themselves up to a new fan base. I would think a big city team in a more liberal area of the country would not have a huge problem drafting someone with his talent and who is openly gay.

[AdamMcDermott88]

I hope we don't all turn into a pillar of salt.

[Brando19]

Because only white people like the pack? J/K, trying to lighten the mood.

Lol! Yeah I'll have to agree with you there.

[Grza]

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj379/Grza6/2004D689-598F-4E00-B0A1-53AFF628782F_zpsl4zvsxps.jpg (http://s553.photobucket.com/user/Grza6/media/2004D689-598F-4E00-B0A1-53AFF628782F_zpsl4zvsxps.jpg.html)

[zonacats8]

I'm sorry, but this guy is an idiot

I have nothing against anyone who is gay, or anyone who wants to come out and tell people they are gay, not even in the slightest.

But couldn't you have just waited 2 or 3 more months to do this?

It's great that he was willing to come forward and not beat around the bush about it, but whether you like/agree with it or not, he without question hurt his draft stock with this as there are just some teams/owners/GM's/coaches who will now move him down their draft board and potentially off of it entirely.

And I don't think it has anything to do with him being gay in itself

Even though some "insiders" still seem to think that the NFL locker rooms aren't ready for openly gay players, I don't buy it, I think the locker rooms are more ready than people might think. There may be a few players who don't like it, but the majority won't care, and you always have SOME sorts of issues in a locker room. When you have that many testosterone filled super athletes together that much, there are going to be some who just don't like others for whatever reason.

The reason he's going to get moved down or bumped off of draft boards is because of the ridiculous media attention he is going to be getting in training camp and during his rookie season.

It's the same reason nobody is giving Tebow a chance, as a player, I don't think anyone can HONESTLY say he isn't better than a majority of backup QB's in the league, not to mention that he's just a born leader who you don't have to worry about doing something stupid off the field.

But no team wants to have that distraction that the media circus brings along with it, the risks far outweigh the rewards.

Now if this guy was a surefire first round pick who was going to be a game changer from day 1, then it's different as the rewards would probably outweigh the risks

[1eyed_jack]

I'm sorry, but this guy is an idiot

I have nothing against anyone who is gay, or anyone who wants to come out and tell people they are gay, not even in the slightest.

But couldn't you have just waited 2 or 3 more months to do this?

It's great that he was willing to come forward and not beat around the bush about it, but whether you like/agree with it or not, he without question hurt his draft stock with this as there are just some teams/owners/GM's/coaches who will now move him down their draft board and potentially off of it entirely.

And I don't think it has anything to do with him being gay in itself

Even though some "insiders" still seem to think that the NFL locker rooms aren't ready for openly gay players, I don't buy it, I think the locker rooms are more ready than people might think. There may be a few players who don't like it, but the majority won't care, and you always have SOME sorts of issues in a locker room. When you have that many testosterone filled super athletes together that much, there are going to be some who just don't like others for whatever reason.

The reason he's going to get moved down or bumped off of draft boards is because of the ridiculous media attention he is going to be getting in training camp and during his rookie season.

It's the same reason nobody is giving Tebow a chance, as a player, I don't think anyone can HONESTLY say he isn't better than a majority of backup QB's in the league, not to mention that he's just a born leader who you don't have to worry about doing something stupid off the field.

But no team wants to have that distraction that the media circus brings along with it, the risks far outweigh the rewards.

Now if this guy was a surefire first round pick who was going to be a game changer from day 1, then it's different as the rewards would probably outweigh the risks


A lot of people seemed to know he was gay. So what, he waits a few months and during those few months, reports come out here and there with speculation and the sort until he finally has to make a statement about it, which makes it seem like he was trying to hide it.

By being forthright with it, it makes it even better. He's not hiding from it, he's not ashamed of it.

[MI Rob]

So much butthurt in this gay thread.

[solt0131]

Eight NFL executives and coaches anticipate a "significant" draft-day plunge for Missouri OLB Michael Sam after revealing that he is homosexual.

The execs and coaches believe NFL locker rooms are "not prepared to deal with an openly gay player," and decision makers fear a "publicity circus" for the team that selects Sam. "At this point in time it's still a man's man game," said one player personnel assistant. "To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace." Rotoworld draft maven Josh Norris believes Sam has fourth- to seventh-round tape. "I just know with this going on this is going to drop him down," added one veteran scout. "There's no question about it. It's human nature. Do you want to be the team to quote-unquote 'break that barrier?'"

[zonacats8]

A lot of people seemed to know he was gay. So what, he waits a few months and during those few months, reports come out here and there with speculation and the sort until he finally has to make a statement about it, which makes it seem like he was trying to hide it.

By being forthright with it, it makes it even better. He's not hiding from it, he's not ashamed of it.

Those people who know were his family and his teammates, who have known AT LEAST since I think they said August when he told the whole team.

If it was able to go that long without it leaking out there when he was having a season that won him SEC defensive player of the year, I'd think it could last another 2 months pretty easily.

And it's not a matter of not being ashamed of it or not

There are a few aspects of myself that I know won't affect my work at my job, but that doesn't mean they're things that I'm going to openly tell a prospective employer when I'm trying to interview with that company because they would lessen my chance of getting said job.

It doesn't make me ashamed of them, it makes me a smart business person

[solt0131]

Those people who know were his family and his teammates, who have known AT LEAST since I think they said August when he told the whole team.

If it was able to go that long without it leaking out there when he was having a season that won him SEC defensive player of the year, I'd think it could last another 2 months pretty easily.

And it's not a matter of not being ashamed of it or not

There are a few aspects of myself that I know won't affect my work at my job, but that doesn't mean they're things that I'm going to openly tell a prospective employer when I'm trying to interview with that company because they would lessen my chance of getting said job.

It doesn't make me ashamed of them, it makes me a smart business person

From a business perspective, he just cost himself millions by coming out.

[KevJo]

Remember something. There is no one side that is right over the other. I myself do not believe homosexuality is a normal thing nor do I support Gay marriage. However I have worked with Gay men and women. I even bought a Barbara Streisand CD for an employee who was leaving. I believe in peace no matter what the situation. I would never slur or hate someone who is gay. They are Brothers and Sisters to me, but I just don't agree with one tiny aspect of their life and hope this young man has success!

Kevin

[Sikkcaden]

Remember something. There is no one side that is right over the other. I myself do not believe homosexuality is a normal thing nor do I support Gay marriage. However I have worked with Gay men and women. I even bought a Barbara Streisand CD for an employee who was leaving. I believe in peace no matter what the situation. I would never slur or hate someone who is gay. They are Brothers and Sisters to me, but I just don't agree with one tiny aspect of their life and hope this young man has success!

Kevin

Not sure if thats a joke brag or something youre actually proud of.....lol

[Skootown]

Remember something. There is no one side that is right over the other. I myself do not believe homosexuality is a normal thing nor do I support Gay marriage. However I have worked with Gay men and women. I even bought a Barbara Streisand CD for an employee who was leaving. I believe in peace no matter what the situation. I would never slur or hate someone who is gay. They are Brothers and Sisters to me, but I just don't agree with one tiny aspect of their life and hope this young man has success!

Kevin

Sorry, but there is in fact one side that "is right over the other".

Treating everyone equally = GOOD
Treating people differently based on race, religion, or sexual orientation = BAD

I understand people have their religous beliefs and you are not trying to be hateful. But the fact is, discrimination is discrimination, whether your religion condones it or not. Either way, it's still wrong.

[silverandblack]

I am shocked that there are actually people in here that dont think this is news worthy or a big deal. This guy could be this generations equivalent to Jackie Robinson. People didnt think blacks could play with the white guys or were smart enough and now people dont think that gays are manly enough or tough enough to play sports like football. There has never been an openly gay pro athlete. This is a tremendous deal because of all the hate towards gay people especially when it comes to sports. I say good for him and if he is a solid player I am all for the Raiders picking him up

[chipmaster]

Remember something. There is no one side that is right over the other. I myself do not believe homosexuality is a normal thing nor do I support Gay marriage. However I have worked with Gay men and women. I even bought a Barbara Streisand CD for an employee who was leaving. I believe in peace no matter what the situation. I would never slur or hate someone who is gay. They are Brothers and Sisters to me, but I just don't agree with one tiny aspect of their life and hope this young man has success!

Kevin

LMFBO!!!!!!!!!!!!

This made my day

[RossOK]

Those people who know were his family and his teammates, who have known AT LEAST since I think they said August when he told the whole team.

If it was able to go that long without it leaking out there when he was having a season that won him SEC defensive player of the year, I'd think it could last another 2 months pretty easily.

And it's not a matter of not being ashamed of it or not

There are a few aspects of myself that I know won't affect my work at my job, but that doesn't mean they're things that I'm going to openly tell a prospective employer when I'm trying to interview with that company because they would lessen my chance of getting said job.

It doesn't make me ashamed of them, it makes me a smart business person

This feature (http://www.outsports.com/2014/2/9/5396036/michael-sam-gay-football-player-missouri-nfl-draft) about how the story came together sheds light on why he chose now to come out. Basically, the window of opportunity for him to do it on his own was closing, as the circle of people in the know kept expanding. Apparently 29 of the 32 NFL GMs were previously aware, along with a lot of people in Columbia, MO.

It's obvious Michael Sam is aware of the repercussions that'll follow his coming out so I can't imagine there's a better time than what he chose. And for everyone saying it'll cost him millions, you're overlooking the negative effects of him coming out after the draft as well as the positive effects from him coming out now. He's given whatever team drafts him a big PR boost along with an expanding fanbase. Why put that off until after the draft?

[arkeeper]

Sam's the mike! Sam's the mike! Omaha! Omaha!

[ekalbnz]

If you'll read the rest of my post, I did separate the two... For clarity to what I was saying, just read further than the first couple of lines.

Maybe, but I still disagree with this:

The only way I can compare is if a guy is "physically" born as a male, the natural thing is for him to be attracted to females (the mental & emotional part).

I don't see how someone can say it's a "natural thing" to be attracted to females when you just said he didn't choose to be gay. To me that is contradicting. If Sam didn't choose to be gay, and it isn't a "natural thing" then what is it?!? Not to mention the fact that it is actually "natural" for many animal species to be paired up in same-sex pairings who only ever mate with the opposite sex purely for mating purposes only.



I don't see why anybody should give a crap about this. Great for him he is out living his life I just don't see why this is News

I think that's the point. This really should not be an issue whether he is gay or straight. It shouldn't be news worthy at all anymore than what any of the straight prospects entering the draft are. The sad thing is, that this is news worthy. Hopefully in a few years it won't matter, and when another player comes out as gay, it barely gets a mention in the news. Unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime in the near future.

[stryke3_mb]

I don't see how someone can say it's a "natural thing" to be attracted to females when you just said he didn't choose to be gay. To me that is contradicting. If Sam didn't choose to be gay, and it isn't a "natural thing" then what is it?!? Not to mention the fact that it is actually "natural" for many animal species to be paired up in same-sex pairings who only ever mate with the opposite sex purely for mating purposes only.

If you'll reference my earlier posts, you get a better explanation. To break things down, men were created like they are. Women were created like they are. They difference in the two is for them to complement each other in a loving marriage that eventually produces children. That's natural, the norm, the way it is supposed to be. If Sam did not simply "choose to be gay", then his attractiveness for other men manifested somewhere along the way. Whether the underlying factor started at birth or if it was developed later in life, it's opposite of the norm. Again, I hate to compare, but think of homosexuality as a recessive trait or something that mentally develops at some point in life. It's not normal and you don't choose it.

Also, you can't ever compare humans to animals. We are made completely different. Some are asexual because that's how they were made. On top of that, they don't have the capacity to understand things on our level or communicate with us. If you try to argue either side by referencing animals, you're chasing rabbits.

[SpastikMooss]

Good for him! I also think this will wrongfully effect his NFL dream but I hope it doesn't!

I'm thinking it will.

I'm also thinking your time will come...dun dun dun :cool:

[arkeeper]

If you'll reference my earlier posts, you get a better explanation. To break things down, men were created like they are. Women were created like they are. They difference in the two is for them to complement each other in a loving marriage that eventually produces children. That's natural, the norm, the way it is supposed to be. If Sam did not simply "choose to be gay", then his attractiveness for other men manifested somewhere along the way. Whether the underlying factor started at birth or if it was developed later in life, it's opposite of the norm. Again, I hate to compare, but think of homosexuality as a recessive trait or something that mentally develops at some point in life. It's not normal and you don't choose it.



Also, you can't ever compare humans to animals. We are made completely different. Some are asexual because that's how they were made. On top of that, they don't have the capacity to understand things on our level or communicate with us. If you try to argue either side by referencing animals, you're chasing rabbits.


If marriage and kids is natural, then marriage and being unable to have kids is unnatural. So maybe a better comparison would be adoption instead of a mental disability. You don't typically choose to be adopted. Sometimes it happens at birth and sometimes it happens along the way. You can't really tell if someone is adopted just by looking at them. It has nothing to do with their ability to play football. And there is no reason to treat them any differently than anyone else.

[KevJo]

LMFBO!!!!!!!!!!!!

This made my day

I asked what he wanted and I got him the CD. That was 15+ years ago.

Not sure if thats a joke brag or something youre actually proud of.....lol

Not joking nor am I bragging about it. Fact is fact.

Sorry, but there is in fact one side that "is right over the other".

Treating everyone equally = GOOD
Treating people differently based on race, religion, or sexual orientation = BAD

I understand people have their religous beliefs and you are not trying to be hateful. But the fact is, discrimination is discrimination, whether your religion condones it or not. Either way, it's still wrong.

Listen, I do not treat anyone differently nor do I treat them different. In my post I was clear on that. I do not agree with that aspect of their lifestyle. Who are you to tell someone they have to agree with homosexuality as the normal? Did you read my post? Treating them fairly and like everyone else, I think I said yes. Not agreeing with being homosexual, is my belief.

Kevin

[Jackg1980]

Didn't science prove people are born gay. I believe they stated that there is a mutation that occurs during development of the fetus that does not allow enough testosterone into the system.

[ekalbnz]

If you'll reference my earlier posts, you get a better explanation. To break things down, men were created like they are. Women were created like they are. They difference in the two is for them to complement each other in a loving marriage that eventually produces children. That's natural, the norm, the way it is supposed to be. If Sam did not simply "choose to be gay", then his attractiveness for other men manifested somewhere along the way. Whether the underlying factor started at birth or if it was developed later in life, it's opposite of the norm. Again, I hate to compare, but think of homosexuality as a recessive trait or something that mentally develops at some point in life. It's not normal and you don't choose it.

Also, you can't ever compare humans to animals. We are made completely different. Some are asexual because that's how they were made. On top of that, they don't have the capacity to understand things on our level or communicate with us. If you try to argue either side by referencing animals, you're chasing rabbits.

This is all just yours (not just yours, but many others I will add) opinion. And we have differing opinions. There is no scientific proof what so ever what the "natural" way is. And this is the biggest issue - that the opinions of many have made Sam having his "natural" feelings judged so critically that this story has become news worthy - even being a pretty major headline over here in New Zealand where NFL barely breaks into the news (the Super Bowl had about 30 seconds of highlights on the news).

[Skootown]

Listen, I do not treat anyone differently nor do I treat them different. In my post I was clear on that. I do not agree with that aspect of their lifestyle. Who are you to tell someone they have to agree with homosexuality as the normal? Did you read my post? Treating them fairly and like everyone else, I think I said yes. Not agreeing with being homosexual, is my belief.

Kevin

So you agree gay people should be allowed to marry, yes?

[zonacats8]

All I know is that I never all of a sudden said, "hey, I like girls"

It's just the way my brain worked when I was a little kid in elementary school trying to hide my hard on when I couldn't stop staring at that girl I had a crush on.

And those religious freaks out there will explain that as it being because it's "natural" for me to feel that way

But when gay people say the exact same thing, it just can't be natural, oh no, it HAS to be their choice

Freaking idiots, I just don't get it

[mikecamp99]

So you agree gay people should be allowed to marry, yes?

Ohhhh boy, here we go.

[groundsupport]

So you agree gay people should be allowed to marry, yes?

Considering marriage is a religious event, then no. Once again that's his view and his belief. Doesn't mean he is right or wrong. It's his belief.

[ejs23]

This guy could be this generations equivalent to Jackie Robinson.... This is a tremendous deal because of all the hate towards gay people especially when it comes to sports.


this is not the equivalent of Jackie Robinson... though many in the media will try to turn it into that.

and where is all this "hate towards gay people" in sports?

this reminds me of the interracial Cheerios commercial... a complete non-controversy that the media is desperately trying to spin into one.

same here. he's gay. good for him. outside of a few internet trolls (who will hate on anything/anyone for sport) who is hating on him? i don't think most care if he's gay, straight or other.

let's focus on his football and not his bedroom.

[sportscards9817]

Michael Sam is a sodomite and no he is not this generations Jackie Robinson!

Quite repugnant to even compare the two.

[zonacats8]

Considering marriage is a religious event, then no. Once again that's his view and his belief. Doesn't mean he is right or wrong. It's his belief.

So does that mean atheists shouldn't be allowed to get married?

Calling marriage a religious event is so stupid

[zonacats8]

Michael Sam is a sodomite and no he is not this generations Jackie Robinson!

Quite repugnant to even compare the two.

Aren't you the guy who said he wasn't going to let his son watch the NBA anymore after Collins came out as gay?

[stryke3_mb]

If marriage and kids is natural, then marriage and being unable to have kids is unnatural. So maybe a better comparison would be adoption instead of a mental disability. You don't typically choose to be adopted. Sometimes it happens at birth and sometimes it happens along the way. You can't really tell if someone is adopted just by looking at them. It has nothing to do with their ability to play football. And there is no reason to treat them any differently than anyone else.

Being unable to have kids is not a bad comparison. Being able to have children is normal. Some people may not want to have kids, but most people want to have the ability to reproduce. Infertility just happens and the choices for those affected are whether to accept the fact they can't have children, try to aid the process medically, or choose adoption.

And yes, you should treat everyone with the same love and respect. Nobody is perfect or better than anyone else. You may not agree with and accept the things others do or their particular stance on an issue, but you don't hate them or insult them for it. You would think that would be common sense.....

[mikecamp99]

For the love of God. I cannot wait for the day when a gay person does something in this world and it doesn't gets hugely publicized like this. I mean come on, is it that big of a deal anymore if someone is gay? Every other cube at my work place the person is gay, and I don't see all the news stations waiting outside my building waiting to interview these people. And don't give me, "Well it's the NFL and there never has been a pro gay player before" BS. It isn't news!!!!!

[zonacats8]

For the love of God. I cannot wait for the day when a gay person does something in this world and it doesn't gets hugely publicized like this. I mean come on, is it that big of a deal anymore if someone is gay? Every other cube at my work place the person is gay, and I don't see all the news stations waiting outside my building waiting to interview these people. And don't give me, "Well it's the NFL and there never has been a pro gay player before" BS. It isn't news!!!!!

almost as bad an argument as those saying he chose to be gay

Anything that sparks debates as hotly contested as this is without question "news"

Now whether or not you agree that there should be this kind of discussions after an announcement like this is your prerogative, but you can't deny the fact that there is mass debates going on today because of this, and that by definition is "news"

[mike barnes]

ill be happy when this stuff no longer makes the news gay or not makes no difference to me, or anyone i know, this is a little overkill, dont like his choices fine they are not your choices, like them still fine not yours he only answers to God if he beleaves in one and his family not espn the fans or us

[free2131]

I myself do not believe homosexuality is a normal thing nor do I support Gay marriage.

There are two types of marriages. There are religious marriages and secular marriages. What our government recognizes is secular marriage (which is why polygamy is illegal). How can you say that you don't have any issues with homosexual people when you think it is perfectly fine to deny them the rights that heterosexual couples have? That's discrimination and has no place in a civilized society.

Considering marriage is a religious event, then no. Once again that's his view and his belief. Doesn't mean he is right or wrong. It's his belief.

Not all marriages are religious events. He is certainly entitled to his belief, but what he isn't entitled to do is forced everyone to live by his beliefs.

[KevJo]

So you agree gay people should be allowed to marry, yes?

My belief is that marriage is sacred between a man and woman. I do not support gay marriage. I imagine you believe differently, good for you. Now see that, I did not try to change your opinion, do not try to change my own.

Kevin

[ejs23]

..you can't deny the fact that there is mass debates going on today because of this, and that by definition is "news"

except that it's not news because anyone is arguing he shouldn't be allowed to play football or because the nation is shocked by it. it's a manufactured controversy.

[groundsupport]

So does that mean atheists shouldn't be allowed to get married?

Calling marriage a religious event is so stupid

Im not saying its right or wrong. All I'm saying everyone have their rights to believe in what they want.

There is a difference from getting married in church and state.

But to say it's stupid is like someone saying getting married out of the church is stupid.


Neither is wrong. Just beliefs. Got to respect them both.

[asujbl]

So many ridiculous replies in this thread.

And not even the ones that are for or against being homosexual - at least some people can debate those on some level.

But the ones that don't think this is a massive deal. People live in a bubble if they think "people don't care if you're gay anymore"

Just look at the few pro athletes that have come out saying they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate.

This thread itself is proof about how many people "care" on various levels - and it's the smallest sample size of the population known to man.

Anyone that thinks that being gay is just like being straight these days needs a serious dose of reality.

[groundsupport]

There are two types of marriages. There are religious marriages and secular marriages. What our government recognizes is secular marriage (which is why polygamy is illegal). How can you say that you don't have any issues with homosexual people when you think it is perfectly fine to deny them the rights that heterosexual couples have? That's discrimination and has no place in a civilized society.



Not all marriages are religious events. He is certainly entitled to his belief, but what he isn't entitled to do is forced everyone to live by his beliefs.

I agree. Works both ways as well though.

[ejs23]

How can you say that you don't have any issues with homosexual people when you think it is perfectly fine to deny them the rights that heterosexual couples have? That's discrimination and has no place in a civilized society.

so you agree that polygamists should be allowed to marry? after all, it would be discriminatory to deny them the same rights. how about pedophiles? or will admit that some discrimination is ok? it's a slippery slope.

[free2131]

My belief is that marriage is sacred between a man and woman. I do not support gay marriage. I imagine you believe differently, good for you. Now see that, I did not try to change your opinion, do not try to change my own.

Like I said, you can have your opinion. What you can't do is deny a certain groups rights that other people have.

You don't believe in gay marriage? Great! Don't get one!

[free2131]

so you agree that polygamists should be allowed to marry? after all, it would be discriminatory to deny them the same rights. how about pedophiles? or will admit that some discrimination is ok? it's a slippery slope.

Yes, personally I am perfectly fine with consenting adults doing whatever they like. To compare pedophiles to homosexual couples wanting to get married is absolutely disgusting and you should be ashamed that you made that connection. There is a difference between a minor who cannot consent and two adults, but you already knew that. Congrats on not bringing up bestiality though as most people who try to use the "slippery slope" argument do.

[ejs23]

But the ones that don't think this is a massive deal. People live in a bubble if they think "people don't care if you're gay anymore"

Just look at the few pro athletes that have come out saying they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate.

you'll always be able to find some small percentage of the population to care about (that is, hate) anything. just like you say, a "few pro athletes have come out saying they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate." meanwhile, the vast majority have no issue with it.

this all stems from the victim mentality that's preached and practiced today. so while no one cares that he's gay, the media and special interest groups will exploit him as a victim.

[KevJo]

Like I said, you can have your opinion. What you can't do is deny a certain groups rights that other people have.

You don't believe in gay marriage? Great! Don't get one!

You have to open your eyes and read. It is not my opinion sir, they are my beliefs. You are trying to force your beliefs on myself and telling me I am wrong. Do you see me trying to change yours?

Kevin

[asujbl]

you'll always be able to find some small percentage of the population to care about (that is, hate) anything. just like you say, a "few pro athletes have come out saying they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate." meanwhile, the vast majority have no issue with it.

this all stems from the victim mentality that's preached and practiced today. so while no one cares that he's gay, the media and special interest groups will exploit him as a victim.

How do you know they have no issue with it? Because they don't want to kill their public image by coming out as homophobic like the other guys did?

You can't possibly be that naive - but based on your other posts you just might be.

[stryke3_mb]

This is all just yours (not just yours, but many others I will add) opinion. And we have differing opinions. There is no scientific proof what so ever what the "natural" way is. And this is the biggest issue - that the opinions of many have made Sam having his "natural" feelings judged so critically that this story has become news worthy - even being a pretty major headline over here in New Zealand where NFL barely breaks into the news (the Super Bowl had about 30 seconds of highlights on the news).

Male and female body parts can't really be labeled as opinions. Neither is the process of reproduction or the heterosexual feelings most of humanity has felt throughout the years. Those are facts. Both sexes complement each other in various ways that are factual and "scientific". You are right about the marriage part being an opinion. It's one that a great majority of people have agreed upon for thousands of years, but it is an opinion.

Also, it's perfectly fine to have an opinion and judge whether something is right or wrong. It's perfectly fine to express your opinion instead of accepting the other person's side. Problems only arise when you attack a person for not accepting your side.

[free2131]

You have to open your eyes and read. It is not my opinion sir, they are my beliefs. You are trying to force your beliefs on myself and telling me I am wrong. Do you see me trying to change yours?

Kevin

Okay, so if you didn't believe that black people were equal to white people, would it be okay for you to deny rights to black people simply because of your beliefs?

[groundsupport]

So are the Russians wrong for their beliefs? Or are we America wrong for our beliefs?

Point being is everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Neither right or wrong.

[zonacats8]

So are the Russians wrong for their beliefs? Or are we America wrong for our beliefs?

Point being is everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Neither right or wrong.

Why is it when people are discussing things like being gay, it's always "beliefs" so you can't be "wrong"

But when it's something racial (like black vs white) it's about human rights and there is an absolute right and wrong?

[Sikkcaden]

So are the Russians wrong for their beliefs? Or are we America wrong for our beliefs?

Point being is everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Neither right or wrong.

I think the problem is that they are PERSONAL beliefs but people think they should apply to everyone (which goes both ways). No one should try to prevent another person's happiness just because they personally don't agree with it.

[free2131]

So are the Russians wrong for their beliefs? Or are we America wrong for our beliefs?

Point being is everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Neither right or wrong.

Any beliefs that call for a certain group (in which all are consenting adults and are the only ones affected) to be denied the same rights as other people in that group are wrong.

[KevJo]

Okay, so if you didn't believe that black people were equal to white people, would it be okay for you to deny rights to black people simply because of your beliefs?

This is going too far. Sir my eyes are colorless when it comes to the color of ones skin. How someone could level such an implication is the end for me in this thread.

Kevin

[hairyangryfella]

So many of the posts in this thread have made me gay ;)

[groundsupport]

Why is it when people are discussing things like being gay, it's always "beliefs" so you can't be "wrong"

But when it's something racial (like black vs white) it's about human rights and there is an absolute right and wrong?

Good question.....

[ejs23]

Yes, personally I am perfectly fine with consenting adults doing whatever they like. To compare pedophiles to homosexual couples wanting to get married is absolutely disgusting and you should be ashamed that you made that connection. There is a difference between a minor who cannot consent and two adults, but you already knew that. Congrats on not bringing up bestiality though as most people who try to use the "slippery slope" argument do.

uh... you're the one that made a connection between homosexuals and pedophiles. i just asked if were ok with discriminating against polygamists and pedophiles.

and while you avoided mentioning polygamists in your response, it sounds like you are willing to discriminate against pedophiles. i

the reality is, pedophiles have already begun lobbying for the same "rights" being extended to homosexuals under the law. they are claiming it's a "natural" sexual orientation. in fact, Democrats in CA have already passed legislation protecting it as such... and some want to federalize it.

whether you like it or not, that slippery slope exists.

[Sikkcaden]

Why is it when people are discussing things like being gay, it's always "beliefs" so you can't be "wrong"

But when it's something racial (like black vs white) it's about human rights and there is an absolute right and wrong?

Good question.....

Because no one interprets anything in the Bible as God Hating Black People or Being Black is a Sin.

[groundsupport]

Any beliefs that call for a certain group (in which all are consenting adults and are the only ones affected) to be denied the same rights as other people in that group are wrong.

Church and state aren't the same. I think you're confused.

[Sikkcaden]

uh... you're the one that made a connection between homosexuals and pedophiles. i just asked if were ok with discriminating against polygamists and pedophiles.

and while you avoided mentioning polygamists in your response, it sounds like you are willing to discriminate against pedophiles. i

the reality is, pedophiles have already begun lobbying for the same "rights" being extended to homosexuals under the law. they are claiming it's a "natural" sexual orientation. in fact, Democrats in CA have already passed legislation protecting it as such... and some want to federalize it.

whether you like it or not, that slippery slope exists.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2625675/mikewoodsonface.gif


I love that. We can't give same-sex couples rights, because then how are we supposed to tell pedophiles no? Sheesh.

[free2131]

This is going too far. Sir my eyes are colorless when it comes to the color of ones skin. How someone could level such an implication is the end for me in this thread.

Kevin

I never said you thought that. I was asking what makes it okay to deny one group of people the same rights you have but not okay to deny the other group.

Basically, you (and those like you) are NOT wrong because you don't believe in gay marriage, but you ARE wrong to think you have a right to stop those people from having the same right as you do to get married SECULARLY.

[groundsupport]

Because no one interprets anything the Bible as God Hating Black People or Being Black is a Sin.

Good civil conversation today. Im bowing out. A lot of angles and point of views to consider.

[free2131]

Church and state aren't the same. I think you're confused.

I know they are not. I personally thing ANY belief (religious or not) that doesn't view all humans as equals is wrong.

[ejs23]

How do you know they have no issue with it? Because they don't want to kill their public image by coming out as homophobic like the other guys did?

You can't possibly be that naive - but based on your other posts you just might be.

this is a perfect example of the victim mentality pushed in this country today.

what are the facts? 1) a few players have made comments that show they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate. 2) the vast majority haven't said or done anything to suggest it's any kind of issue to them.

but, because we have so many willing and eager victims, we're supposed to assume that they all secretly hate gays!!! they're just protecting "their public image."

everyone is a racist! everyone is homophobic! even if they don't know it.

[asujbl]

this is a perfect example of the victim mentality pushed in this country today.

what are the facts? 1) a few players have made comments that show they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate. 2) the vast majority haven't said or done anything to suggest it's any kind of issue to them.

but, because we have so many willing and eager victims, we're supposed to assume that they all secretly hate gays!!! they're just protecting "their public image."

everyone is a racist! everyone is homophobic! even if they don't know it.

Because that's exactly what I said. You nailed it. Might as well just close the thread at this point.

[stryke3_mb]

Why is it when people are discussing things like being gay, it's always "beliefs" so you can't be "wrong"

But when it's something racial (like black vs white) it's about human rights and there is an absolute right and wrong?

Yeah, there is always a right side and a wrong side to beliefs as well.

[ejs23]

I love that. We can't give same-sex couples rights, because then how are we supposed to tell pedophiles no? Sheesh.

did anyone say that? or is it easier to avoid the real issues and post nonsense?

i never said homosexuals shouldn't marry. and i abhor pedophiles.

i'm just pointing out the hypocrisy and the slippery slope all the self-righteous posters who like to bash the beliefs of others.

[Jackg1980]

Yes, personally I am perfectly fine with consenting adults doing whatever they like. To compare pedophiles to homosexual couples wanting to get married is absolutely disgusting and you should be ashamed that you made that connection. There is a difference between a minor who cannot consent and two adults, but you already knew that. Congrats on not bringing up bestiality though as most people who try to use the "slippery slope" argument do.

I think he is talking about the choice to be attracted to one or the other. There was a show about pedos who could not help what they are attracted to. The same with bestiality. Some of those people wanted help to become "normal" be attracted to what they are suppose to. Of course it's disgusting for them to act on their attractiveness.

[groundsupport]

this is a perfect example of the victim mentality pushed in this country today.

what are the facts? 1) a few players have made comments that show they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate. 2) the vast majority haven't said or done anything to suggest it's any kind of issue to them.

but, because we have so many willing and eager victims, we're supposed to assume that they all secretly hate gays!!! they're just protecting "their public image."

everyone is a racist! everyone is homophobic! even if they don't know it.

Which is ironic when it comes to rape victims and student athletes. They are just gold digging hoes.

No way the star player raped her. :coffee:

[Sikkcaden]

this is a perfect example of the victim mentality pushed in this country today.

what are the facts? 1) a few players have made comments that show they wouldn't welcome a gay teammate. 2) the vast majority haven't said or done anything to suggest it's any kind of issue to them.

but, because we have so many willing and eager victims, we're supposed to assume that they all secretly hate gays!!! they're just protecting "their public image."

everyone is a racist! everyone is homophobic! even if they don't know it.

did anyone say that? or is it easier to avoid the real issues and post nonsense?

i never said homosexuals shouldn't marry. and i abhor pedophiles.

i'm just pointing out the hypocrisy and the slippery slope all the self-righteous posters who like to bash the beliefs of others.

Sweet sweet irony.

[Brando19]

This is going too far. Sir my eyes are colorless when it comes to the color of ones skin. How someone could level such an implication is the end for me in this thread.

Kevin

Yes I agree with you completely.

[ejs23]

Sweet sweet irony.

irony...

http://verysmartbrothas.com/images/Do-not-think-it-means.jpeg?c07647

[arkeeper]

NO ONE CARES! IT'S NOT NEWS! *looks at 200+ posts and 2,500+ thread views*

:confused::confused::confused:

[freethrowtommy]

Good for him.

That is all.

[JohnRyno]

Hey! Cool out! Just everyone cool out. COOL OUT!! This next song, you all might like. Few people know that I am fueled creatively by my massive hatred of immigrants. Gary and I have gone on for hours about how much we hate foreignors. Right, Gary?

Leave me out of this, man.

NO, I WILL LEAVE YOU IN!!

[preakness]

Thanks Topps!!!!!

[WilsonValdez]

Im not saying its right or wrong. All I'm saying everyone have their rights to believe in what they want.

There is a difference from getting married in church and state.

But to say it's stupid is like someone saying getting married out of the church is stupid.


Neither is wrong. Just beliefs. Got to respect them both.

Yes, this man knows the truth.

My beliefs tell me that we should round up all the "sinners" (my pc word for the gheys), put them on an island and recreate Hiroshima. My 'non-believer' friend disagrees.

Now neither of us are wrong. Its just my belief. You have to respect them both, because it is my belief and I said so.

[groundsupport]

Yes, this man knows the truth.

My beliefs tell me that we should round up all the "sinners" (my pc word for the gheys), put them on an island and recreate Hiroshima. My 'non-believer' friend disagrees.

Now neither of us are wrong. Its just my belief. You have to respect them both, because it is my belief and I said so.

I was waiting for you to ruin this thread.. God bless you. Please seek help.

[WilsonValdez]

I was waiting for you to ruin this thread.. God bless you. Please seek help.

Respect my beliefs, you intolerant jerk. Haven't you ever heard of the 1st amendment?

[groundsupport]

Respect my beliefs, you intolerant jerk. Haven't you ever heard of the 1st amendment?

What's to respect when you asking for the remaking of Hiroshima over views..

That's your beliefs.. You're asking for terror and death because it's your belief. Pretty bold to be sarcastic over that..... I know you are, but what a sick joke.

Huge difference in today's conversation once WilsonValdez shows up like he is a somebody.

Wilson God bless you bro.

[corndog]

Yes, this man knows the truth.

My beliefs tell me that we should round up all the "sinners" (my pc word for the gheys), put them on an island and recreate Hiroshima. My 'non-believer' friend disagrees.

Now neither of us are wrong. Its just my belief. You have to respect them both, because it is my belief and I said so.

Not much into civil discussions huh? :)!

[groundsupport]

Not much into civil discussions huh? :)!

Never......

[WilsonValdez]

What's to respect when you asking for the remaking of Hiroshima over views..

That's your beliefs.. You're asking for terror and death because it's your belief. Pretty bold to be sarcastic over that..... I know you are, but what a sick joke.

Huge difference in today's conversation once WilsonValdez shows up like he is a somebody.

Wilson God bless you bro.

Thank you for the lecture on civility, guy with 'President of the United States as Satan" as his avatar.

Not much into civil discussions huh? :)!

Not much for arguing with the irrational. Please respect my beliefs.

[groundsupport]

Thank you for the lecture on civility, guy with 'President of the United States as Satan" as his avatar.



Not much for arguing with the irrational. Please respect my beliefs.


Maybe you need to watch the "Bible" on the History Channel, because that's not the President.

[Metsfan1121]

Respect my beliefs, you intolerant jerk. Haven't you ever heard of the 1st amendment?

I completely agree with the fact that people can have their own opinions, but the whole "First Amendment" excuse gets used over and over. The First Amendment does NOT say that you can express your opinions on a privately owned internet forum, it says that your stated beliefs cannot be used as a reason for government persecution, and nothing else. You don't have the right to say anything, at any time, to anyone.

[WilsonValdez]

I completely agree with the fact that people can have their own opinions, but the whole "First Amendment" excuse gets used over and over. The First Amendment does NOT say that you can express your opinions on a privately owned internet forum, it says that your stated beliefs cannot be used as a reason for government persecution, and nothing else. You don't have the right to say anything, at any time, to anyone.

Sorry, but that's your opinion; My beliefs tell me otherwise. Neither of us is wrong, you're just going to have to respect my beliefs and we'll agree to disagree.

[groundsupport]

Sorry, but that's your opinion; My beliefs tell me otherwise. Neither of us is wrong, you're just going to have to respect my beliefs and we'll agree to disagree.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Barack-Obama-Clapping-in-Front-of-American-Flags.gif

[Metsfan1121]

Sorry, but that's your opinion; My beliefs tell me otherwise. Neither of us is wrong, you're just going to have to respect my beliefs and we'll agree to disagree.

Although I do respect your beliefs, congress recently stated that the First Amendment doesn’t protect people from backlash, public boycotts, ridicule, or disapproval.

[groundsupport]

Although I do respect your beliefs, congress recently stated that the First Amendment doesn’t protect people from backlash, public boycotts, ridicule, or disapproval.

Shut your mouth!

[Sikkcaden]

Sorry, but that's your opinion; My beliefs tell me otherwise. Neither of us is wrong, you're just going to have to respect my beliefs and we'll agree to disagree.

Post of the month. Awesome.

[groundsupport]

Post of the month. Awesome.

He finally got it right.

[JHinGA09]

Yes, this man knows the truth.

My beliefs tell me that we should round up all the "sinners" (my pc word for the gheys), put them on an island and recreate Hiroshima. My 'non-believer' friend disagrees.

Now neither of us are wrong. Its just my belief. You have to respect them both, because it is my belief and I said so.

Recreate Hiroshima? Really...
How about we just shove them all in concentration camps and recreate the Holocaust while we're at it, or round up all the Mexicans and push them all across the border.
Believe me, your 'beliefs' didn't teach you to kill or discriminate but rather love thy neighbor and forgive those that have trespassed upon you. Rounding them up on an island and then blowing it up is not in the 'beliefs' you are talking about. I don't know what twisted 'belief' you are believing in, but you might want to read the good Book more.

[37Jetson]

This thread reminds me of why I refrain from discussions on race and sexual orientation.

[JohnnyG711]

All the people agreeing putting them on an island, enjoy that book of fiction(maybe) that you have no proof of who wrote it. Also, you are judging by writing stuff like that making you a hypocrite.

[Jackg1980]

All the people agreeing putting them on an island, enjoy that book of fiction(maybe) that you have no proof of who wrote it. Also, you are judging by writing stuff like that making you a hypocrite.

Who are all the people?

[JHinGA09]

All the people agreeing putting them on an island, enjoy that book of fiction(maybe) that you have no proof of who wrote it. Also, you are judging by writing stuff like that making you a hypocrite.

Who are all the people?

What do you mean, 'you people???' :p

[1eyed_jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzV1r5SCc8U

[HBMC]

i don't follow College FB very close so I would have no idea where he should really be drafted. But it would not surprise me (unfortunately) if he falls out of the draft. I'm not sure how he would prove it would be due to coming out though? And could he really sue the NFL when it cannot control when he gets drafted? Would make things interesting though.

He's undersized for a 4-3 DE and isn't fluid enough as an athlete to play OLB in a 3-4 (i.e., he struggled mightily in dropping back into coverage and has poor lateral quickness).

He's looking like a project with some nice pass rushing abilities, but he get's engulfed at the point of attack in the running game a lot. Probably a Low 2nd to High 3rd with some nice abilities, but beyond that, he's limited.

There might be a few teams that pass on him because of the invariable circus that will follow, not because of what he is. Hence why Teebs doesn't have a job.

PS - The "Conversation" will never be over, the egg shells won't ever be tread upon lightly enough and the wedge issue is too valuable to let it die. All the more reason to get the marionettes (on both sides of this issue) agitated and to keep us as a society, distracted.

I wish Michael Sam the best in his NFL career, I just don't see him being much more than an imitation Robert Mathis with less athletic ability. Great situational pass rusher, but beyond that, he's got enough limitations from a physical aspect that make him undesirable as an every down player.

[HBMC]

I know they are not. I personally thing ANY belief (religious or not) that doesn't view all humans as equals is wrong.

Murderer's =/= to non-murderer's.

Pretty easy leg to stand on there.

[Timmyftblstar54]

I was going to read this thread but...
http://changethetopic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/tumblr_md7ip9vx3Z1rfy2fao1_500-1_zps14ea8bc8.jpg

[bigzig]

Recreate Hiroshima? Really...
How about we just shove them all in concentration camps and recreate the Holocaust while we're at it, or round up all the Mexicans and push them all across the border.
Believe me, your 'beliefs' didn't teach you to kill or discriminate but rather love thy neighbor and forgive those that have trespassed upon you. Rounding them up on an island and then blowing it up is not in the 'beliefs' you are talking about. I don't know what twisted 'belief' you are believing in, but you might want to read the good Book more.

Pretty sure that's not his actual belief.

[ekalbnz]

He's undersized for a 4-3 DE and isn't fluid enough as an athlete to play OLB in a 3-4 (i.e., he struggled mightily in dropping back into coverage and has poor lateral quickness).

He's looking like a project with some nice pass rushing abilities, but he get's engulfed at the point of attack in the running game a lot. Probably a Low 2nd to High 3rd with some nice abilities, but beyond that, he's limited.

There might be a few teams that pass on him because of the invariable circus that will follow, not because of what he is. Hence why Teebs doesn't have a job.

PS - The "Conversation" will never be over, the egg shells won't ever be tread upon lightly enough and the wedge issue is too valuable to let it die. All the more reason to get the marionettes (on both sides of this issue) agitated and to keep us as a society, distracted.

I wish Michael Sam the best in his NFL career, I just don't see him being much more than an imitation Robert Mathis with less athletic ability. Great situational pass rusher, but beyond that, he's got enough limitations from a physical aspect that make him undesirable as an every down player.

Thanks for the info! As a mid-round pick he could be great as a specialist pass rusher then? Maybe on a team like the Seahawks defense where he could be used in different pass rushing packages and not have to worry about coverage and run stopping too much.

[arkeeper]

I never got the island thing. How often do they want to do that? Cause they do realize more gay people will be born, right?

[fungi2510]

Anyone who says their beliefs tell them to kill has the wrong set of beliefs and I do NOT have to accept it.

[freethrowtommy]

He's undersized for a 4-3 DE and isn't fluid enough as an athlete to play OLB in a 3-4 (i.e., he struggled mightily in dropping back into coverage and has poor lateral quickness).

He's looking like a project with some nice pass rushing abilities, but he get's engulfed at the point of attack in the running game a lot. Probably a Low 2nd to High 3rd with some nice abilities, but beyond that, he's limited.

There might be a few teams that pass on him because of the invariable circus that will follow, not because of what he is. Hence why Teebs doesn't have a job.

PS - The "Conversation" will never be over, the egg shells won't ever be tread upon lightly enough and the wedge issue is too valuable to let it die. All the more reason to get the marionettes (on both sides of this issue) agitated and to keep us as a society, distracted.

I wish Michael Sam the best in his NFL career, I just don't see him being much more than an imitation Robert Mathis with less athletic ability. Great situational pass rusher, but beyond that, he's got enough limitations from a physical aspect that make him undesirable as an every down player.

If he is even HALF of Robert Mathis, he will have a pretty decent NFL career...

Also, for him to go undrafted would be unprecedented for what he has accomplished in the SEC. I can't find the article again, but it was on Yahoo today that no SEC Defensive player of the year has gone undrafted. Only one went later than, if I recall correctly, outside of the top 30 picks (went in the 5th round).

I think he will be drafted.

[HBMC]

Thanks for the info! As a mid-round pick he could be great as a specialist pass rusher then? Maybe on a team like the Seahawks defense where he could be used in different pass rushing packages and not have to worry about coverage and run stopping too much.

That would be an ideal spot, they have other needs though.

If he is even HALF of Robert Mathis, he will have a pretty decent NFL career...

It'd take quite a bit, plus that undersized D-Line strategy has long since died in the NFL.


Also, for him to go undrafted would be unprecedented for what he has accomplished in the SEC. I can't find the article again, but it was on Yahoo today that no SEC Defensive player of the year has gone undrafted. Only one went later than, if I recall correctly, outside of the top 30 picks (went in the 5th round).

I think he will be drafted.

The only way he doesn't get drafted at this point is if he injures himself at the combine or Pro Day. I think 3rd Round is probable, maybe late 2nd depending on team needs. The lack of position flex and basic fluidity in his hips really harms his value to a lot of hybrid front teams.

[jetscollector10]

Good for him. And awesome of all the Mizzou team to support him.
Jw, will they call it joining "Sams club" when people come out in the NFL now?
:P

[Skootown]

My belief is that marriage is sacred between a man and woman. I do not support gay marriage. I imagine you believe differently, good for you. Now see that, I did not try to change your opinion, do not try to change my own.

Kevin

Sorry, but I will always fight for equal rights of all people.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[royprice31]

I never got the island thing. How often do they want to do that? Cause they do realize more gay people will be born, right?

Gay people aren't born moron!!!!

[royprice31]

It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!! lol

[1eyed_jack]

Sorry, but I will always fight for equal rights of all people.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Great post!

It's hard to believe in 2014, there's still people who hold the opinion that homosexuals should not viewed as equals to heterosexuals.

Unfortunately for the same reason racism still exists, so will this because it gets passed on through generations.

I believe it to be an ignorant opinion based solely on the fact that if you actually intelligently think about it, there is no good reason to be against gay rights.