Official PFF Projected Line Up Thread

[Sikkcaden]

I thought people would get a kick out of these, so instead of making a new one for every team as they are released, I thought I could just update the OP as they are released. Here is the first one:

Houston Texans:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/10/projected-lineups-houston-texans/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-HOU1.png


Washington Redskins

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/10/projected-lineups-washington-redskins/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-WAS2.png

Cleveland Browns

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/11/projected-lineups-cleveland-browns/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-CLE1.png

Jacksonville Jaguars

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/11/projected-lineups-jacksonville-jaguars/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-JAX2.png

Oakland Raiders

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/12/projected-lineups-oakland-raiders/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-OAK1.png

Atlanta Falcons

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/12/projected-lineups-atlanta-falcons/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-ATL1.png

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/12/projected-lineups-tampa-bay-buccaneers/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-TB.png

Minnesota Vikings

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/13/projected-lineups-minnesota-vikings/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-MIN.png

Buffalo Bills

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/13/projected-lineups-buffalo-bills/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-BUF1.png

Detroit Lions

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/13/projected-lineups-detroit-lions/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-DET2.png

Tennessee Titans

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/14/projected-lineups-tennessee-titans/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-02-14_11-55-53.jpg

New York Giants

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/14/projected-lineups-ny-giants/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-NYG.png

St. Louis Rams

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/14/projected-lineups-st-louis-rams/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-STL.png

Chicago Bears

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/15/projected-lineups-chicago-bears/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-CHI.png

Pittsburgh Steelers

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/15/projected-lineups-pittsburgh-steelers/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-PIT.png

Baltimore Ravens

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/16/projected-lineups-baltimore-ravens/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-BAL.png

Dallas Cowboys

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/16/projected-lineups-dallas-cowboys/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-DAL.png

New York Jets

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/17/projected-lineups-new-york-jets/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-NYJ.png

Miami Dolphins

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/17/projected-lineups-miami-dolphins/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-MIA.png

Arizona Cardinals

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/17/projected-lineups-arizona-cardinals/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-ARZ.png

Green Bay Packers

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/18/projected-lineups-green-bay-packers/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/lineup-GB2.png

Philadelphia Eagles

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/18/projected-lineups-philadelphia-eagles/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-PHI.png

Kansas City Chiefs

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/18/projected-lineups-kansas-city-chiefs/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-KC.png

Cincinnati Bengals

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/19/projected-lineups-cincinnati-bengals/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-CIN.png

San Diego Chargers

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/19/projected-lineups-san-diego-chargers/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-SD.png

Indianapolis Colts

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/19/projected-lineups-indianapolis-colts/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-IND.png

New Orleans Saints

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/20/projected-lineups-new-orleans-saints/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-NO.png

Carolina Panthers

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/20/projected-lineups-carolina-panthers/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-CAR.png

New England Patriots

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/20/projected-lineups-new-england-patriots/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-NE2.png

San Francisco 49ers

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/21/projected-lineups-san-francisco-49ers/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-SF1.png

Denver Broncos

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/21/projected-lineups-denver-broncos/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-DEN.png

Seattle Seahawks

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/21/projected-lineups-seattle-seahawks/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-SEA2.png

[legion624]

This is cool. Never seen this before.

[Drdduet]

Very nice, thanks for sharing.

[rynogeis]

Where is Garrett Graham?

[Sikkcaden]

Where is Garrett Graham?

He's a free agent.

[dbrown]

Are they not using projected 1st round picks?

[Sikkcaden]

Are they not using projected 1st round picks?

No. They are using what is currently on the roster to highlight what the needs are going into FA and the Draft.

[rynogeis]

No. They are using what is currently on the roster to highlight what the needs are going into FA and the Draft.

This makes sense. Hence why I didn't see GG there. Pretty cool.

I couldn't find this for all teams though. Are they doing it daily or whenever they get around to it? Or can I just not find a thing here?

[Sikkcaden]

This makes sense. Hence why I didn't see GG there. Pretty cool.

I couldn't find this for all teams though. Are they doing it daily or whenever they get around to it? Or can I just not find a thing here?

This was the first release. I dont know how often theyre releasing them but there will be one for every team. I assume once a day or once every couple days. Will post as theyre posted.

[addicted36]

Matt Schaub hahahaha

[Sikkcaden]

Updated with the Redskins. Cant wait to see the yellow for Griffin blow this thread up.

[Sikkcaden]

Updated with Browns and Jags

[legion624]

So I am guessing if a player is a certain color with a different color border around it that is what they are projecting that player to possibly be? Take a look at RG3. Either way, I think these are really cool.

[Sikkcaden]

So I am guessing if a player is a certain color with a different color border around it that is what they are projecting that player to possibly be? Take a look at RG3. Either way, I think these are really cool.

Theres a link above the picture that gives a little more analysis/color-coding. The border means a potential color change, yes.

[legion624]

Cool. I look forward to the Titans.

[SethMurphy]

wow the jaguars are a joke

[Spartyon]

Is edwin baker really the projected starter at RB for the Browns?

[addicted36]

Updated with the Redskins. Cant wait to see the yellow for Griffin blow this thread up.

Maybe I am reading this wrong but this goofy website has Griffin yellow with a green outline right? That means they see him as a High Quality Starter and a Adequate starter right? Pretty much sums up PFF.

PFF is quoted way too often and has posted some of the dumbest stuff I've read online. Like last year them leaving Jaamal Charles off the top 100 players in the league list, some people take them as gospel but they are not. Only good thing about them is they track some different stats that more common websites use which is nice but numbers can be manipulated.

[Sikkcaden]

Maybe I am reading this wrong but this goofy website has Griffin yellow with a green outline right? That means they see him as a High Quality Starter and a Adequate starter right? Pretty much sums up PFF.

PFF is quoted way too often and has posted some of the dumbest stuff I've read online. Like last year them leaving Jaamal Charles off the top 100 players in the league list, some people take them as gospel but they are not. Only good thing about them is they track some different stats that more common websites use which is nice but numbers can be manipulated.

He is yellow with the ability to become a dark green. Something tells me if he was dark green with a blue border, you wouldn't be so critical of PFF. But I digress.

[Clarka3]

if i read it right, they just haven't done a Bengals one yet, correct? Or did I miss it in the links somewhere?

[Sikkcaden]

if i read it right, they just haven't done a Bengals one yet, correct? Or did I miss it in the links somewhere?

Those are the only four done so far.

[ekalbnz]

Desmond Bryant is really only classed as an "Adequate Starter / Solid Role Player" for the Browns? I didn't watch a lot of Browns games this year, but I know he was sorely missed with the Raiders and would think at minimum he would be a "Solid Starter / Valuable Role Player". And I know the Pro Bowl doesn't mean much, but Posluszny was a Pro Bowler this year and is considered the same.

[Sikkcaden]

Updated with The Raiders.

[Sikkcaden]

Falcons and Bucs added.

[Sikkcaden]

minnesota, buffalo and lions bump

[Zacy87]

Maybe I am reading this wrong but this goofy website has Griffin yellow with a green outline right? That means they see him as a High Quality Starter and a Adequate starter right? Pretty much sums up PFF.

PFF is quoted way too often and has posted some of the dumbest stuff I've read online. Like last year them leaving Jaamal Charles off the top 100 players in the league list, some people take them as gospel but they are not. Only good thing about them is they track some different stats that more common websites use which is nice but numbers can be manipulated.

Lol you're too much.

[MarshallCutler6]

Ever since PFF kept forte out of their pro bowl roster that have been on my #@#@#@#@ list, but I agree with the rg3 ranking. But how is Suh not an elite starter? I hate the guy but he is a force and clearly one of the best in the game.

[Clarka3]

damn, raiders have a lot of unknowns.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Lineup-OAK1.png

[legion624]

Ever since PFF kept forte out of their pro bowl roster that have been on my #@#@#@#@ list, but I agree with the rg3 ranking. But how is Suh not an elite starter? I hate the guy but he is a force and clearly one of the best in the game.

I agree that the guy is a beast but maybe because he can lose his cool at times and hurt his team? That is just a guess of course.

[Sikkcaden]

Titans and Giants added!

[Zacy87]

Eli high quality??? HRMMMMM.

[SethMurphy]

they definitely under-graded JPP

[Sikkcaden]

they definitely under-graded JPP

I thought that too initially, then I thought about his actual production the past couple seasons. He's better than he's played in theory, and I know theres been injury issues but as far as his play has been (not potential) it's a very fair grade.

[MarshallCutler6]

I'm calling BS on the Eli ranking.

[Sikkcaden]

I'm calling BS on the Eli ranking.

Whys that? You think he should be light green?


Edit: Rams added

[MarshallCutler6]

Whys that? You think he should be light green?


Edit: Rams added

Yes, light green with a dark green circle. After the year he just had, it's unfair to the other QBs on this list that he is dark green, while te others are light green or yellow.

[Sikkcaden]

Yes, light green with a dark green circle. After the year he just had, it's unfair to the other QBs on this list that he is dark green, while te others are light green or yellow.

Thats probably true. I however, do think that last year was the exception to the rule rather than the rule. For Giants fans, I atleast hope thats the case lol

[oldcardcolector]

This is pretty cool.

[Sikkcaden]

Bears and Steelers bump

[MarshallCutler6]

And pffs hating on forte continues. He's a top 3-4 rb in the game. What more do you have to do to be elite?

[Sikkcaden]

Ravens, Cowboys, Jets and Dolphins (oof) bump.

[Sikkcaden]

Cardinals, Packers and Eagles bump.

[Qiot]

I'm surprised at the accuracy of this. Pretty cool! I don't know if I'd make Brandon Marshall "elite", but there's no arguing he's one of the best in the NFL. Probably keep him Dark Green.

But they used the blue sparingly which was nice.

I 100% agree SUH should be blue. Is there anyone better or that offenses fear more right now?

[Sikkcaden]

I'm surprised at the accuracy of this. Pretty cool! I don't know if I'd make Brandon Marshall "elite", but there's no arguing he's one of the best in the NFL. Probably keep him Dark Green.

But they used the blue sparingly which was nice.

He's mostly considered elite because he is the best blocking WR in the NFL. By a lot lol

[F8n4tune]

Hmm Nix as the Raiders LG ? that would be a draft pick imo. Also prefer Watson at RT and wish we could get a Center and move Wise back to Guard where he is strongest.

[freethrowtommy]

Packers are okay except I don't agree with a few of their ratings:

I don't think AJ Hawk is a below average starter. I probably would have put him at yellow (average).

I definitely don't think that David Bakhtiari is below average either. Based on everything I saw this year, he looks like he would be at least a solid starter.

Nick Perry didn't show enough to be an average starter. I would probably drop him a peg.

Jordy Nelson should be elite... :devil:.

[MarshallCutler6]

I'm surprised at the accuracy of this. Pretty cool! I don't know if I'd make Brandon Marshall "elite", but there's no arguing he's one of the best in the NFL. Probably keep him Dark Green.

But they used the blue sparingly which was nice.

I 100% agree SUH should be blue. Is there anyone better or that offenses fear more right now?

Marshall should be blue due to his blocking.


Suh and forte not being blue are the two biggest snubs so far. Two of the best at their positions.

[Dielon]

Chad Greenway at below average/average role player? He didn't have his best year this year but no way.

[ekalbnz]

damn, raiders have a lot of unknowns.


They do, but they had a lotof guys starting last year who were on 1-year contracts due to salary cap issues which will be completely different this year now there is cap room. LT and DE should hopefully still have Veldheer and Houston starting again, but both are current Free Agents so one may leave (one of them I think will be Franchised if a deal cannot be reached).



Hmm Nix as the Raiders LG ? that would be a draft pick imo. Also prefer Watson at RT and wish we could get a Center and move Wise back to Guard where he is strongest.

Completely agree about Lil Wiz. He is better suited to be playing LG than Center. Nothing wrong with his blocking at Center, but he had a few troubles snapping the play last year. Best case scenario for me this year is Alex Mack is signed for Center, Lil Wiz moved back to LG, and Veldheer re-signed (or Franchised) to stay at LT. The rotating players we had at RT last year all actually played pretty well, and Brisel is good enough to remain a starter this year at RG with competition from a rookie or cheap vet. As for Nix, I think PFF had him rated the worst starting guard since they started ratings or something crazy which would not surprise me with how terrible he was!

[Sikkcaden]

Chad Greenway at below average/average role player? He didn't have his best year this year but no way.

Greenway rated out as their 2nd to last WORST OLB last season with a whopping -19.1 overall rating. 0.5 the year before. He has 21 missed tackles and QB's had a 106.7 rating against him, while receivers caught 77.3% of the balls thrown at them while he was covering them.



Chiefs added bump.

[Sikkcaden]

Bengals and Chargers added.

[Clarka3]

Bengals and Chargers added.

finally.

i'll edit this post after i get a chance to look.


ok- so the only things i disagree with the bengals are the following:

-I think they under-rated Gresham and should be orange with yellow border. The offensive gameplan just doesn't call for the TE all that often, leading him to be feast or famine.

- James Harrison should not be light green. The Bengals under-utilized him in their scheme. He should be yellow or orange at best if they plan to keep using him as a normal LB and not the elite pass-rusher he used to be.

- Peko should be solid yellow. There's nothing flashy about his playstyle, but he does his job.


and the key needs thing. I'm not convinced DE is their first priority. I think it should be a lockdown CB. Leon is coming back from another injury, and Terrence Newman isn't getting any younger, and Dre Kirkpatrick hasn't progressed like we would have liked. Pacman is serviceable, but would shine as a nickle CB imo.

Top 3 needs (before FA):

1. Lockdown CB
2. Serviceable SS that excels in coverage (neither Iloka or Mays is the answer)
3. either a versatile DL OR an OL position (G or C preferably)

[Sikkcaden]

finally.

i'll edit this post after i get a chance to look.


ok- so the only things i disagree with the bengals are the following:

-I think they under-rated Gresham and should be orange with yellow border. The offensive gameplan just doesn't call for the TE all that often, leading him to be feast or famine.

- James Harrison should not be light green. The Bengals under-utilized him in their scheme. He should be yellow or orange at best if they plan to keep using him as a normal LB and not the elite pass-rusher he used to be.

- Peko should be solid yellow. There's nothing flashy about his playstyle, but he does his job.


and the key needs thing. I'm not convinced DE is their first priority. I think it should be a lockdown CB. Leon is coming back from another injury, and Terrence Newman isn't getting any younger, and Dre Kirkpatrick hasn't progressed like we would have liked. Pacman is serviceable, but would shine as a nickle CB imo.

Top 3 needs (before FA):

1. Lockdown CB
2. Serviceable SS that excels in coverage (neither Iloka or Mays is the answer)
3. either a versatile DL OR an OL position (G or C preferably)


They rated Jermaine Gresham as the 2nd worst TE last season and that had a lot to do with his apparent terrible run blocking and penalties.

Peko rated out as the 4th worst 4/3 DT. Only registering two games with positive ratings.

James Harrison graded out surprisingly well.


Colts and Saints added.

[Zacy87]

I know there's going to be a dozen Packers fans coming to his defense, but how is Casey Hayward valued the same as Patrick Peterson and Joe Haden?

[Sikkcaden]

I know there's going to be a dozen Packers fans coming to his defense, but how is Casey Hayward valued the same as Patrick Peterson and Joe Haden?

That has to be a mistake. He barely played last year but had a huge year the year prior.

[Sikkcaden]

Panthers and Patriots added. Can't wait to watch the meltdowns over Kuechly and Brady's grades.

[Cubsbball25]

Panthers and Patriots added. Can't wait to watch the meltdowns over Kuechly and Brady's grades.

I can agree with Kuechly not being considered elite yet. He really needs to get better against the pass. There are times where he looks lost out there on pass plays.

[freethrowtommy]

Haha... Tom Brady isn't elite.

[freethrowtommy]

I know there's going to be a dozen Packers fans coming to his defense, but how is Casey Hayward valued the same as Patrick Peterson and Joe Haden?

I won't come to his defense, as I don't agree...

However, his rookie year, he was one of the top ranked corners in the league according to the PFF metrics. Right or wrong, these rankings are based off their metrics. I guess they don't factor in lost seasons (to injury) as Gronk is still elite as well.

I don't agree with some of their other Packers rankings, but I guess their metrics tell them something different.

[zonacats8]

I can agree with Kuechly not being considered elite yet. He really needs to get better against the pass. There are times where he looks lost out there on pass plays.

But at other times he also looks great on pass plays, he just needs to be a little more consistent, but that still shouldn't make the reigning defensive player of the year not considered elite, same thing with Brady.

I'm sorry, but if Kuechly and Brady aren't considered elite, than I don't know how you can really put anyone as an elite player

[MarshallCutler6]

Tom Brady not being elite is a joke.

Heres my running list of Elite Snubs:

1. Suh
2. Forte
3. Brady

Im sure Ill add more. Brady not elite... Ridiculous.

[Cubsbball25]

But at other times he also looks great on pass plays, he just needs to be a little more consistent, but that still shouldn't make the reigning defensive player of the year not considered elite, same thing with Brady.

I'm sorry, but if Kuechly and Brady aren't considered elite, than I don't know how you can really put anyone as an elite player

Consistency is part of being elite. I think part of his struggles are because of a weak secondary and also because of poor scheming, but his own personal pass defense still needs a lot of work.

[zonacats8]

Consistency is part of being elite. I think part of his struggles are because of a weak secondary and also because of poor scheming, but his own personal pass defense still needs a lot of work.

Eh, yes and no, it's not like he has HORRIBLE games as a pass defender, more like 2 or 3 times a game, at most, he gets beat.

You can get beat and still be an elite player, especially a big reason he is getting beat isn't necessarily poor play IMHO, but that we did have a weak secondary and he was being asked to cover just too much ground and do too much on defense.

You aren't even considered for DPOY unless you're an elite player, regardless if you think he should have won it or not (as some here don't think he should have) it's pretty much impossible to say he wasn't a top 5 candidate.

So how can you say a top 5 defender isn't elite?

Hell, Sean Lee is considered elite by them, nothing against him, great linebacker, but he's not better than Kuechly, c'mon man

[Cubsbball25]

Eh, yes and no, it's not like he has HORRIBLE games as a pass defender, more like 2 or 3 times a game, at most, he gets beat.

You can get beat and still be an elite player, especially a big reason he is getting beat isn't necessarily poor play IMHO, but that we did have a weak secondary and he was being asked to cover just too much ground and do too much on defense.

You aren't even considered for DPOY unless you're an elite player, regardless if you think he should have won it or not (as some here don't think he should have) it's pretty much impossible to say he wasn't a top 5 candidate.

So how can you say a top 5 defender isn't elite?

Hell, Sean Lee is considered elite by them, nothing against him, great linebacker, but he's not better than Kuechly, c'mon man


I guess this is what Sikkcaden was referring to...

Listen, I'm a big fan of Kuechly and I do believe he is well on his way to being an all-around elite linebacker, but as it is now, he is only elite in one facet of his game and that is against the run. Tons of tackles on guys after they make the catch is not impressive. He still can't line up man-to-man against even moderately good tight-ends and he gets beat over the middle constantly. I mean hell, there are tons of times he is playing zone where he doesn't even cover the zone he is supposed to or you can see that he has no clue where he is supposed to be.

Elite players do it all and they do it on a week-to-week basis. Kuechly is on his way but is not quite there yet.

And for the record, I was perfectly fine with Kuechly winning DPOY, without him, the Panthers D is not nearly as strong. But as of now, he is a Star/Better than most starter, not Elite.

[zonacats8]

I guess this is what Sikkcaden was referring to...

Listen, I'm a big fan of Kuechly and I do believe he is well on his way to being an all-around elite linebacker, but as it is now, he is only elite in one facet of his game and that is against the run. Tons of tackles on guys after they make the catch is not impressive. He still can't line up man-to-man against even moderately good tight-ends and he gets beat over the middle constantly. I mean hell, there are tons of times he is playing zone where he doesn't even cover the zone he is supposed to or you can see that he has no clue where he is supposed to be.

Elite players do it all and they do it on a week-to-week basis. Kuechly is on his way but is not quite there yet.

And for the record, I was perfectly fine with Kuechly winning DPOY, without him, the Panthers D is not nearly as strong. But as of now, he is a Star/Better than most starter, not Elite.

All I know is that they have 29 defensive players so far rated as either elite or have the border of elite around them (which Kuechly doesn't have either)

Regardless of what you think of Kuechly's pass defense, I'm totally baffled how they can have 29 defensive players rated better than him and still not even have all of the teams listed yet.

Whether you want to call a specific player elite or not is not really the debate here, but it's what they are considering elite, and I don't know how you can call 29 other players that on defense but not include Kuechly

[freethrowtommy]

I guess this is what Sikkcaden was referring to...

Listen, I'm a big fan of Kuechly and I do believe he is well on his way to being an all-around elite linebacker, but as it is now, he is only elite in one facet of his game and that is against the run. Tons of tackles on guys after they make the catch is not impressive. He still can't line up man-to-man against even moderately good tight-ends and he gets beat over the middle constantly. I mean hell, there are tons of times he is playing zone where he doesn't even cover the zone he is supposed to or you can see that he has no clue where he is supposed to be.

Elite players do it all and they do it on a week-to-week basis. Kuechly is on his way but is not quite there yet.

And for the record, I was perfectly fine with Kuechly winning DPOY, without him, the Panthers D is not nearly as strong. But as of now, he is a Star/Better than most starter, not Elite.

And to be honest, there is nothing wrong with being really really good.

He is borderline elite for sure, but people need to settle down on these rankings. I don't agree with some of them, but PFF isn't WAY off on any of these players.

Some people just need to stop splitting hairs here.

[MarshallCutler6]

And to be honest, there is nothing wrong with being really really good.

He is borderline elite for sure, but people need to settle down on these rankings. I don't agree with some of them, but PFF isn't WAY off on any of these players.

Some people just need to stop splitting hairs here.

They are way off on Brady Suh and Forte. They are the best of the best at their positions.

[freethrowtommy]

They are way off on Brady Suh and Forte. They are the best of the best at their positions.

Once again, these rankings are based on their metrics. Saying a player is a "high quality starter" rather than "elite" could be borderline.

They still aren't far off. They aren't saying any of those three are bad players.

[zonacats8]

And to be honest, there is nothing wrong with being really really good.

He is borderline elite for sure, but people need to settle down on these rankings. I don't agree with some of them, but PFF isn't WAY off on any of these players.

Some people just need to stop splitting hairs here.

Like I just said in my previous post, it's not that there is something wrong with not being elite but being very good.

It's how they can rate certain players at one level, and then rate just as good if not better players at a lesser level because of some weird metric they seem to have made up on their own

If you're telling me there are legitimately 29 defensive players who are better than Kuechly, then I just don't know what to say

[MarshallCutler6]

Once again, these rankings are based on their metrics. Saying a player is a "high quality starter" rather than "elite" could be borderline.

They still aren't far off. They aren't saying any of those three are bad players.

I get that they are using their rather flawed ranking system, but would you consider any of those players borderline elite? I certainly wouldnt.

[freethrowtommy]

Like I just said in my previous post, it's not that there is something wrong with not being elite but being very good.

It's how they can rate certain players at one level, and then rate just as good if not better players at a lesser level because of some weird metric they seem to have made up on their own

If you're telling me there are legitimately 29 defensive players who are better than Kuechly, then I just don't know what to say

From their page on the Panthers...

Luke Kuechly may not have been our Defensive Player of the Year, finishing as our eight-highest graded inside linebacker, but he is still a very good player with room to grow. Elsewhere at linebacker no player had a higher grade in coverage than Thomas Davis in 2013. The final linebacker spot is up for grabs, and A.J. Klein looks like the most logical choice to slot in there before anyone else is brought in through free agency or the draft.

Once again, their metrics.

[freethrowtommy]

I get that they are using their rather flawed ranking system, but would you consider any of those players borderline elite? I certainly wouldnt.

These aren't my rankings, nor are they yours... take them as such.

[zonacats8]

From their page on the Panthers...



Once again, their metrics.

Right, that's the point

If their metrics are saying Kuechly is at best the 30th best defensive player in the league (and that would be if he's the top player to next be in line for that elite/borderline elite status), I think it's rather obviously it's seriously flawed and they should be doing something to fix said metrics.

[freethrowtommy]

Right, that's the point

If their metrics are saying Kuechly is at best the 30th best defensive player in the league (and that would be if he's the top player to next be in line for that elite/borderline elite status), I think it's rather obviously it's seriously flawed and they should be doing something to fix said metrics.

They aren't saying he is the 30th best player... they are saying he is the 8th best linebacker. You can't equate an elite player at one position with a very good player at another.

[Zacy87]

Tom Brady not being elite is a joke.

Heres my running list of Elite Snubs:

1. Suh
2. Forte
3. Brady

Im sure Ill add more. Brady not elite... Ridiculous.

I agree with those 3 for sure. I do think Peterson and Haden are snubs as well. If you're considered top 3 in the league at your position, you're most likely elite.

[MarshallCutler6]

I agree with those 3 for sure. I do think Peterson and Haden are snubs as well. If you're considered top 3 in the league at your position, you're most likely elite.

I didnt even realize those two! Youve got to be kidding me that Peterson and Haden arent Elite.

[freethrowtommy]

I agree with those 3 for sure. I do think Peterson and Haden are snubs as well. If you're considered top 3 in the league at your position, you're most likely elite.

I didnt even realize those two! Youve got to be kidding me that Peterson and Haden arent Elite.

Considering Haden, Peterson and Suh are all outlined in light blue, they are all "borderline elite" according to their metrics.

[zonacats8]

They aren't saying he is the 30th best player... they are saying he is the 8th best linebacker. You can't equate an elite player at one position with a very good player at another.

Oh I totally understand what you're saying, but my point is that if their metrics system grades out at least 29 defensive players (remember there are still a few teams to be listed) that are either elite or borderline elite at their position, how is Kuechly not among them?

Guy was just voted as the defensive player of the year and was a first team all pro on basically every publication's lists except for PFF.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but you add all that up and it just shows me how flawed of a system they have over there

[MarshallCutler6]

Considering Haden, Peterson and Suh are all outlined in light blue, they are all "borderline elite" according to their metrics.

So Brady and Forte arent even borderline elite by their metrics?:D:D:D:D:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[freethrowtommy]

So Brady and Forte arent even borderline elite by their metrics?:D:D:D:D:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I guess not? What do you want me to say?

They don't give the numbers in the article, so I can't comment on their rankings.

[MarshallCutler6]

I guess not? What do you want me to say?

They don't give the numbers in the article, so I can't comment on their rankings.

You dont have to say anything, I get what youre saying, they use their own ranking system. However what I am saying is they need to seriously look at their Metrics system.

Forte was 2nd in yeards last year, an exceptional blocker, and has been the best recieving RB in the game for a while.

Brady is one of the greatest to ever play the game.

Both are clearly elite and nobody is going to try and argue otherwise.

My gripe isnt with you, its with PFFs metric system.

[zonacats8]

You dont have to say anything, I get what youre saying, they use their own ranking system. However what I am saying is they need to seriously look at their Metrics system.

Forte was 2nd in yeards last year, an exceptional blocker, and has been the best recieving RB in the game for a while.

Brady is one of the greatest to ever play the game.

Both are clearly elite and nobody is going to try and argue otherwise.

My gripe isnt with you, its with PFFs metric system.

Agree with everything here, except Forte isn't the best receiving RB in the game, maybe I'd give him #2, but I think Sproles takes that one in a cake walk

[freethrowtommy]

You dont have to say anything, I get what youre saying, they use their own ranking system. However what I am saying is they need to seriously look at their Metrics system.

Forte was 2nd in yeards last year, an exceptional blocker, and has been the best recieving RB in the game for a while.

Brady is one of the greatest to ever play the game.

Both are clearly elite and nobody is going to try and argue otherwise.

My gripe isnt with you, its with PFFs metric system.

I would be curious to see their numbers on the subject. I don't know enough about PFF's rankings and I am sure they are behind a paywall?

[Sikkcaden]

How PFF grades https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

Kuechly was their 8th best ILB this season. Hence why he isn't elite.

Tom Brady is elite based on the past...I think it's fair to say he's regressed a tad.

Matt Forte was the 16th ranked RB mostly due to being THE WORST blocking RB in the NFL of all RB's that played 25% snaps or more.

[MarshallCutler6]

How PFF grades https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

Kuechly was their 8th best ILB this season. Hence why he isn't elite.

Tom Brady is elite based on the past...I think it's fair to say he's regressed a tad.

Matt Forte was the 16th ranked RB mostly due to being THE WORST blocking RB in the NFL of all RB's that played 25% snaps or more.

That's why every non PFF expert points out how excellent of a blocker forte is, and highlights of his blitz pickup abilities are showin every game he played in. Brady hasn't regressed, the talent around him did and he still put up amazing numbers. And forte 16th overall? Heh.

[Sikkcaden]

That's why every non PFF expert points out how excellent of a blocker forte is, and highlights of his blitz pickup abilities are showin every game he played in. Brady hasn't regressed, the talent around him did and he still put up amazing numbers. And forte 16th overall? Heh.

I'm just passing along what their analysis is. It's either he's a terrible blocker or they are out to get him. I doubt they're out to get him.

According to their count, he was responsible for 12 hurries, 2 hits on QB and 3 sacks

While someone like Eddie Lacy was only responsible for 3 hurries and 1 hit and McCoy was responsible for 9 hurries and 1 sack.

[Sikkcaden]

Final teams added bump.