The Knicks Should Trade Shumpert for Collison

[dasiegel]

And if they can do this Collison deal they should easily do it. Here are some reasons why:

-Shumpert is overrated and has value: He has been dubbed this awesome defender. Any true Knicks fan has definitely seen him make some nice plays and he is 100% an above average or good defender... he is not an awesome defender.

Any true Knick fan saw him fouls Paul George and blow the 1st Indiana game and has watched him do stupid foul after stupid foul only to look at the refs like they are crazy... especially in the 4th. He may be the King of putting other guards to the FT line when they are over the limit.

However he is valuable for his defense and size at the 2. He could help put a team that is close over the edge, LAC seems to be this team.

-Darren Collison played great ball in college and has had signs of playing great ball in the NBA. His latest stint for the Clippers was very strong and he has good leadership and toughness. He is fast as hell and can get inot the paint, something the Knicks sorely need.

-Raymond Felton is getting divorced- He is not the answer to our problems. It sounded like a good deal when we lost out on Lin. But it just didn't work out. He has alluded to off the court issus and now it has been said his wife filed divorce papers. His head isn;t in the game and while I like Pablo, he and Chandler mean 2/5 on the court aren;t gonna be scoring the ball.

-The perfect contract- He makes 1.9 this year and next. Just in time for the 15 offseason and it won't hold us back. We also would get rid of Ray's contract if we made the deal.

In a nutshell, there is very little to lose unless you are a big believer in Shumpert. So far he has other teams interested in his D and potential. His Texas road trip this year was excellent... since then he's been a disappearing act. Now in his 3rd year he missed a season with a torn ACL and is average 7.5 points a game. That's not a good start NY, let's trade him while he has some value.

[GoClips!]

I was interested in this deal, as a Clips fan, until Shump's knee sprain tonight...

[bigeric]

yeah, that injury killed any chance at the deal. One thing though is Collison 1.9M contract is a player option for next season, so he'd probably opt out

[dasiegel]

yeah, that injury killed any chance at the deal. One thing though is Collison 1.9M contract is a player option for next season, so he'd probably opt out

Good point abt Collison but if he had the chance to start for a team he might stay. I hope the Shumpert injury is light and doesn't kill a deal.

[nateadams2]

I honestly think that trading shump or hardaway would be a terrible idea. They both have low contracts still. Hardaway is playing great. Shumpert is so much better than what he has been playing this year. I think it's more of a locker room problem that they have almost all given up on this season besides Melo. With the comments he has been making lately, it almost seems that he's about to jump off the edge with the rest of them.

[dasiegel]

I honestly think that trading shump or hardaway would be a terrible idea. They both have low contracts still. Hardaway is playing great. Shumpert is so much better than what he has been playing this year. I think it's more of a locker room problem that they have almost all given up on this season besides Melo. With the comments he has been making lately, it almost seems that he's about to jump off the edge with the rest of them.

How dare you disagree with me NATE! I think we have to trade one of the two. We are stuck with JR Smith so thats that. Hardaway has proven to better than Shumpert. Not as good defensively but way better offensively and if you factor in Shumps injuries we can't be a team with so little, yet 3 SGs who need minutes. I'd much rather trade JR but since nobody wants him and we just signed him for bit of money, Shumps gotta go. None of the 3 are tall enough to play SF or good enough ball handlers to play point. I like Shump but we should get something for him bf his next big injury.

[knicks_please]

Can't trade hardaway. Shumpert is losing value fast, they should have traded him months ago, and now unless by some miraculous turn of events he finds some game then he'll end up with no value sooner than later. Hardaway is the truth, a very good piece for the future. Shump is not...his injury probably prevented any trade. Hopefully he still has value in the summer and he'll get moved.

[nateadams2]

Can't trade hardaway. Shumpert is losing value fast, they should have traded him months ago, and now unless by some miraculous turn of events he finds some game then he'll end up with no value sooner than later. Hardaway is the truth, a very good piece for the future. Shump is not...his injury probably prevented any trade. Hopefully he still has value in the summer and he'll get moved.

My only thing is that they now have Melo saying he will even play for less money. You know this organization is ran about as poorly as the friggin Cowboys. They will make a trade but bring on salary over the next few years probably extending further than Shump's contract. They need to try and free up funds as quickly as possible to show Melo they have intentions of signing other true stars. The Bargs trade was dumb. Yes, he showed some promise early in the season, but that was a lot of money to bring on board. Now it's made it an even worse decision.

[pepsiporch]

Get rid of melo

this guy is a cancer

[dasiegel]

Get rid of melo

this guy is a cancer

I hope Steve Mills doesn't listen to Pepsiporch on BO forums... is Mills a card collector?

[knicks_please]

My only thing is that they now have Melo saying he will even play for less money. You know this organization is ran about as poorly as the friggin Cowboys. They will make a trade but bring on salary over the next few years probably extending further than Shump's contract. They need to try and free up funds as quickly as possible to show Melo they have intentions of signing other true stars. The Bargs trade was dumb. Yes, he showed some promise early in the season, but that was a lot of money to bring on board. Now it's made it an even worse decision.

The main purpose of the bargs trade was to get money off the books earlier and they accomplished that. Bargs only has one more year on his contract, unlike the guys they traded for him. I.e freeing up funds as quickly as possible just like you said.

[knicks_please]

I hope Steve Mills doesn't listen to Pepsiporch on BO forums... is Mills a card collector?

Nobody listens to Pepsiporch.

[jbmets95]

Its just interesting to me how so many of the contenders and good teams have been interested in shump

Okc and denver and the clippers

Doc rivers loves the guy the okc management loves the guy

Yes shump has been awful absolutely terrible this year but he is still only 23 and has potential

Collison has been on like 4 teams in 5 years

Frank vogel hated him and doc isnt a fan
That tells me something

Shumps having an awful year but u dont sell low

The knicks like to buy high and sell low

And as for shumps defense he takes a lot of chances and its hard playing around the guys he does

He plays with no1 else who cares abt defense besides chandler
Has jr on his hip who woody loves and woody hates shump
And then they draft THJR who plays the same position

Should have traded him way earlier in the season no suprise knicks couldnt do that

At this point i was happy they kept him

Collison is nothing special yes he has played behind CP3 twice in his career but still i was not impressed with him at all

Bigger question is why couldnt they trade Beno for anything

[nateadams2]

The main purpose of the bargs trade was to get money off the books earlier and they accomplished that. Bargs only has one more year on his contract, unlike the guys they traded for him. I.e freeing up funds as quickly as possible just like you said.

Ahhhhh. See, I didn't realize that he only had one more year. That is my mistake. In that case, it was a good move. I still believe that Shump is a solid defender and has a better offensive game than the level he is playing at right now. I can see the opinion to trade him, I just think that they need to make sure they don't bring on a large hit on the cap.

[jbmets95]

Knicks giving away 3 picks for Bargs is just sad to think about

[jbmets95]

There was nothing good at all abt the bargs trade

[nateadams2]

Knicks giving away 3 picks for Bargs is just sad to think about

They basically give away all their draft picks. That's why they are in the situation they are right now.

[jbmets95]

Yep
Hindsight is 20/20 but the trade looks awful today and will the rest of the year
They basically give away all their draft picks. That's why they are in the situation they are right now.

[nateadams2]

Yep
Hindsight is 20/20 but the trade looks awful today and will the rest of the year

That's not so much hindsight as it is poor management. Draft picks help keep you out of salary cap hell because you can draft young talent and have them play for much much less than vets. Also you can set yourself up for the future by actually doing well in the draft.

[jbmets95]

That is true ur right

It isnt hindsight because they got a ton of criticism after the trade

It was just a response to the nets big splash...

[dasiegel]

There was nothing good at all abt the bargs trade

I'll be the first to admit the trade was a bust but when he started the season after the first few ice cold games i was like hmmm, ok, this is great, a stretch 4/5 to make room for Melo in the lane. Some things don't work out but I was ok with it at the time.

I think us Knick fans learned something the hardest way this year... draft picks are no joke... as a yankees fan with our sh!t minor league team, we are learning you need a farm.

Young guys and picks are huge and we have nothing to show for it this season. If we make the playoffs its likely a IND or MIA matchup.. If we don't we get nothing and in fact Denver gets a lottery pick.

In a nutsack, I think we are the only people who see Shumpert as this big potential guy. Some others see him as a lock down defender with some potential... come on guys, we are card collectors and sellers... what do you sell on... HYPE? Even if the value has gone down, we shoulda sold now while some people believe in some of this hype... I don't wish it on him but i expect us to be looking at a 7-8 ppg career guy with above avg defense for the next 8 years.

[nateadams2]

I'll be the first to admit the trade was a bust but when he started the season after the first few ice cold games i was like hmmm, ok, this is great, a stretch 4/5 to make room for Melo in the lane. Some things don't work out but I was ok with it at the time.

I think us Knick fans learned something the hardest way this year... draft picks are no joke... as a yankees fan with our sh!t minor league team, we are learning you need a farm.

Young guys and picks are huge and we have nothing to show for it this season. If we make the playoffs its likely a IND or MIA matchup.. If we don't we get nothing and in fact Denver gets a lottery pick.

In a nutsack, I think we are the only people who see Shumpert as this big potential guy. Some others see him as a lock down defender with some potential... come on guys, we are card collectors and sellers... what do you sell on... HYPE? Even if the value has gone down, we shoulda sold now while some people believe in some of this hype... I don't wish it on him but i expect us to be looking at a 7-8 ppg career guy with above avg defense for the next 8 years.

He's lost his athleticism. That's his problem on offense. He's not trying to take it to the rim as much as he did last year. My big point on him is his defense. He has the potential to be an outstanding top defender in the league if he can progress his talent. He has the framework of already being an a good perimeter defender and I have faith that he could get better.

[jbmets95]

Too bad we dont have a defensive minded coach.... o wait
He's lost his athleticism. That's his problem on offense. He's not trying to take it to the rim as much as he did last year. My big point on him is his defense. He has the potential to be an outstanding top defender in the league if he can progress his talent. He has the framework of already being an a good perimeter defender and I have faith that he could get better.

[nateadams2]

Too bad we dont have a defensive minded coach.... o wait

Having a defensive minded coach does nothing if all of the players don't buy into the philosophy. Plain and simple, Melo will not play consistent D. He only comes out and puts forth effort against the big name guys. JR is a liability and I'm not even going to touch on Felton. Pablo plays D with heart and Shump is a good defender. Tyson is Tyson. He is all D.

However when it's only 2 or 3 on the floor at a time, not to mention how much they switch, it's only leaving gaping problems on that end of the floor. Regardless of who the coach is.

[dasiegel]

I do not like Mike Woodson as a coach but when you are this far under .500 that's not all the coach.

[nateadams2]

I do not like Mike Woodson as a coach but when you are this far under .500 that's not all the coach.

exactly. the effort is not there.

[jbmets95]

lol the players buy into the philosophy it just hasnt worked all year

he doubles one pass a way and leaves guys open for wide open threes

there is nothing smart about that

they double on everything switch on everything which creates mismatches... it starts with the philosophy and then getting your players to put in the effort

[jbmets95]

Melo brings the effort every night... its really just about hitting shots in my opinion and the injuries

They are missing more threes this year
exactly. the effort is not there.

[nateadams2]

Melo brings the effort every night... its really just about hitting shots in my opinion and the injuries

They are missing more threes this year

Hitting shots late in games seems to be a trend of his lately. Honestly, part of it could be the fact that he's averaging almost 40 minutes a night, or maybe not. I don't know.

Melo brings effort on offense and on the boards. I'm one of the biggest melo fans on this forum and I'm telling you that if you really believe he puts forth consistent effort on the defensive side of the ball, you're lying to yourself. He gets up for big games against big name players, but not for the nobody teams.

[jbmets95]

Yes completely agree

I dont even think its Melo

its the whole team

they play to their competetiion and get up for the big games

As for Melo considering who he is playing with this year and the injuries around him and everything I am perfectly fine with the way he is playing

at the end of the Grizz game he kicked it to JR and pablo for open threes they just missed

and then he still got the offensive rebound

the problem is everything but THJR and Melo
Hitting shots late in games seems to be a trend of his lately. Honestly, part of it could be the fact that he's averaging almost 40 minutes a night, or maybe not. I don't know.

Melo brings effort on offense and on the boards. I'm one of the biggest melo fans on this forum and I'm telling you that if you really believe he puts forth consistent effort on the defensive side of the ball, you're lying to yourself. He gets up for big games against big name players, but not for the nobody teams.

[gonygo]

Look at the trade scenario's and topics were discussing for this once proud franchise. Shame...

[jbmets95]

not sure which of my three teams has the worst management

each team is top 5 worst in their sport

Mets
Redskins
Knicks

[gonygo]

not sure which of my three teams has the worst management

each team is top 5 worst in their sport

Mets
Redskins
Knicks

And this statement my good man is the MAIN reason for all problems. BAD management. :)! Unfortunately, that isn't going to change any time soon... When you have morons in charge of hiring people and making decisions, the result = Knicks, Mets etc....:o