Please Explain to Me Ken Griffey Jr's UD RC

[Hess687]

Okay, so my mom (yes, my mom) has 3 Ken Griffey Jr Upper Deck RC's that have sat in screwed in cases since the 90's and I was looking up prices on EBay for her. Can someone tell me why a BGS 10 is selling for $1,200 auction style, while a PSA 10 only fetches for around $350 (looking at sold items)?

If she were to get them graded does this mean I should go thru Beckett for a better resale value? Shouldn't a 10 be a 10?

Thanks!

And I know that it will likely not come back as a 10, but it's nice to dream.

[adamsbetter]

Okay, so my mom (yes, my mom) has 3 Ken Griffey Jr Upper Deck RC's that have sat in screwed in cases since the 90's and I was looking up prices on EBay for her. Can someone tell me why a BGS 10 is selling for $1,200 auction style, while a PSA 10 only fetches for around $350 (looking at sold items)?

If she were to get them graded does this mean I should go thru Beckett for a better resale value? Shouldn't a 10 be a 10?

Thanks!

And I know that it will likely not come back as a 10, but it's nice to dream.

A BGS 10 is a grade above PSA 10. BGS 9.5 equates to PSA 10. The PSA 10 commands a premium over the BGS 9.5.

[Hess687]

So always use BGS when looking to grade as it will carry a higher resale value? And thank you for your response. I collect myself, but I don't like to get anything graded/never have gotten anything graded.

[Bhenry4]

So always use BGS when looking to grade as it will carry a higher resale value? And thank you for your response. I collect myself, but I don't like to get anything graded/never have gotten anything graded.

For this card, PSA is better. To expect a BGS 10 is not a good assumption. They are next to impossible.

[66_Fiat]

So always use BGS when looking to grade as it will carry a higher resale value? And thank you for your response. I collect myself, but I don't like to get anything graded/never have gotten anything graded.

No...research which cards carry a premium graded PSA 10 vs. a BGS 9.5. There is a semi-cutoff for cards around 20 years old. The KGJ UD is a good example. 25 years old and a PSA 10 carries a premium over a BGS 9.5. However, any graded RC/Prospect card with an auto should be graded by BGS if the autograph is "neat" (again, research). A 2011 Bowman auto of Bryce Harper that grades 9.5 with a 10 auto commands a hefty premium over a PSA 10 of the same card.

BGS 10 (Pristine) is damn near impossible on any card not pack pulled in today's market.

[WCTYSON]

The grading criteria is much tougher through BGS/BVG. Check comparable prices on return for BGS vs. PSA grades to see what are equals. Then decide reasonably what the cards would grade before determining who to send them to.

[Hess687]

For this card, PSA is better. To expect a BGS 10 is not a good assumption. They are next to impossible.

But wouldn't the risk be worth it? Even if one of them grades out at a 9.5 (once again I know this is all highly unlikely) it would still carry around the same price as a PSA 10, it seems.

And if it sounds like I am ignorant when it comes to grading it's because I am.

[No 1]

In a screw down since the 90s? You should first try getting them out of the case without damaging them and then see their condition.

[itradeerrors]

But wouldn't the risk be worth it? Even if one of them grades out at a 9.5 (once again I know this is all highly unlikely) it would still carry around the same price as a PSA 10, it seems.

And if it sounds like I am ignorant when it comes to grading it's because I am.

Post some pictures of the cards. Chances are they would be lucky to be graded an 8.

[Hess687]

No...research which cards carry a premium graded PSA 10 vs. a BGS 9.5. There is a semi-cutoff for cards around 20 years old. The KGJ UD is a good example. 25 years old and a PSA 10 carries a premium over a BGS 9.5. However, any graded RC/Prospect card with an auto should be graded by BGS if the autograph is "neat" (again, research). A 2011 Bowman auto of Bryce Harper that grades 9.5 with a 10 auto commands a hefty premium over a PSA 10 of the same card.

BGS 10 (Pristine) is damn near impossible on any card not pack pulled in today's market.

Thank you for this. You guys have been very helpful.

[tnj0426]

Was at a card show in Grapevine Tx. BGS was there doing raw grading & taking submissions. Guy next to me submitted a Bowman Chrome Puig RC auto. It came back raw @ 10 with a 10 auto. He submitted it to be slabbed.

[jmscoggin]

Was at a card show in Grapevine Tx. BGS was there doing raw grading & taking submissions. Guy next to me submitted a Bowman Chrome Puig RC auto. It came back raw @ 10 with a 10 auto. He submitted it to be slabbed.

I saw it after it was slabbed. So puuurrrty. Owner is a member here but rarely posts. He turned down an offer that I would have takien in a second but you just never know. I can't believe what some of my Puig stuff has still been selling for so he is probably right.

[mudflap02]

This is why grading is so dumb.

There are 10 grades from 1 to 10, but we only want to use 9.5 and 10. It's all in the eye of the beholder, and I think the days of people paying a premium for a PSA 10 vs. a PSA 9 vs. a BGS 9.5 vs a BGS 9 vs. a BGS 10 are going to be over soon. Mint is mint. It's like judging if someone is pregnant or not. One person is not more pregnant than another. Gem Mint was created in the late '90s to try to convince people to grade their cards, and then pay a premium for gem copies.

[Hess687]

I am going over to my parent's house now to get the cards scanned and then will post. Thank you all for the continued help.

[Bhenry4]

In a screw down since the 90s? You should first try getting them out of the case without damaging them and then see their condition.

Yep, I have two of them that were both in screwdowns until a couple of months ago. One is fine, the other has ripples across the entire card.

[adamsbetter]

The grading criteria is much tougher through BGS/BVG. Check comparable prices on return for BGS vs. PSA grades to see what are equals. Then decide reasonably what the cards would grade before determining who to send them to.

this is a false statement. Anything pre-1990, 99% of the time will carry a premium in a PSA holder with the same grade. PSA standards for vintage far outweight that of BGS and that's why they carry such a premium over BGS/BVG

[Skipscards]

this is a false statement. Anything pre-1990, 99% of the time will carry a premium in a PSA holder with the same grade. PSA standards for vintage far outweight that of BGS and that's why they carry such a premium over BGS/BVG

Very true. Though I don't consider an 89 Griffey "Vintage".

[adamsbetter]

Very true. Though I don't consider an 89 Griffey "Vintage".

I don't either, but for this particular exercise on which grader carries the premium and is widely thought of as the more strict/better grader, I used anything pre-1990 as the criteria for "vintage".

[sportscardmania]

Just because it is thought PSA is tougher at grading a 1989 Upper Deck card doesn't make it true.

[adamsbetter]

Just because it is thought PSA is tougher at grading a 1989 Upper Deck card doesn't make it true.

You are correct. However, should PSA be the best choice to grade pre-1990 cards? The fact that they sell for a big premium over BGS/BVG does make that part of it a no brainer.

[sportscardmania]

You are correct. However, should PSA be the best choice to grade pre-1990 cards? The fact that they sell for a big premium over BGS/BVG does make that part of it a no brainer.

I agree with that if you're shooting for most value. I prefer BVG/BGS for the looks annd strength of their holder and to have my collection all graded by the same company though.

[WCTYSON]

this is a false statement. Anything pre-1990, 99% of the time will carry a premium in a PSA holder with the same grade. PSA standards for vintage far outweight that of BGS and that's why they carry such a premium over BGS/BVG

This is a false statement. :rolleyes: I never said anything about premiums to begin with. Feel free to post criteria, as it is well known that BVG is much tougher than PSA. I like your made up 99% though, as it is very effective in making your point. My suggestion was to evaluate the card then pick the one with the higher grade for service, which will likely be PSA. I would take a BVG 9 or 10 over a PSA 9 or 10 most times personally, but I am not the vintage market.

[death2redemptions]

So always use BGS when looking to grade as it will carry a higher resale value? And thank you for your response. I collect myself, but I don't like to get anything graded/never have gotten anything graded.

No this is not true. When it comes to comparable value a BGS 9.5 is generally similar to a PSA 10 with more modern cards but when it comes to pre-1990 cards such as the Griffey a PSA 10 will carry a premium over a BGS 9.5. Both the BGS 9.5 and PSA 10 are considered "gem mint" condition.

Now, the BGS 10 is considered "pristine" condition and it is nearly impossible to get a card with this card, especially pre-1990 cards such as the Griffey. A BGS 10 will always carry the highest value when it comes to grading cards but I think something like less than 1% of modern cards will achieve this grade. With Pre-1990 it becomes even more impossible.

When it comes to pre-1990 cards and especially "vintage" cards (pre-1979) PSA is the way to go. BGS is the better route (in my opinion) for modern cards and modern cards have a higher probability of achieving the illustrious BGS 10 than vintage.

[adamsbetter]

This is a false statement. :rolleyes: I never said anything about premiums to begin with. Feel free to post criteria, as it is well known that BVG is much tougher than PSA. I like your made up 99% though, as it is very effective in making your point. My suggestion was to evaluate the card then pick the one with the higher grade for service, which will likely be PSA. I would take a BVG 9 or 10 over a PSA 9 or 10 most times personally, but I am not the vintage market.

99% is probably accurate. Name any 5 random vintage cards and I'll look up the VCP for you to make my point. And if you'd take a BVG 9 or 10 over a PSA 9 or 10 for anything pre-1990 then you obviously aren't looking to choose the most valuable or best looking card.

[WCTYSON]

99% is probably accurate. Name any 5 random vintage cards and I'll look up the VCP for you to make my point. And if you'd take a BVG 9 or 10 over a PSA 9 or 10 for anything pre-1990 then you obviously aren't looking to choose the most valuable or best looking card.

This is where you are wrong again. I certainly would take a BVG over a PSA, when we are talking card quality criteria. You are right though, most of the time the PSA will carry the premium but it is not because of the criteria they use is tougher than BVG. I want my card to be centered, with sharp edges and corners, along with a clean surface. BVG grades each of those and you can plainly see the grade for each aspect. Can you with PSA?

[rob11nats]

There was just a thread on this exact topic last week. IIRC I'm pretty sure the POP reports will bear out that PSA is tougher than BGS on the Griffey '89 UD RC which is why the PSA commands a premium for the "same" grade.

[adamsbetter]

This is where you are wrong again. I certainly would take a BVG over a PSA, when we are talking card quality criteria. You are right though, most of the time the PSA will carry the premium but it is not because of the criteria they use is tougher than BVG. I want my card to be centered, with sharp edges and corners, along with a clean surface. BVG grades each of those and you can plainly see the grade for each aspect. Can you with PSA?

why are you even commenting about graded vintage cards when you just said you don't even deal with them? It's obvious to the people that actually do deal in vintage that you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, BGS has subgrades, yes BGS carries more value for modern cards (not because of anything other than PSA did a sh!tty job of marketing and inventing holders for oversize, bulky patch and auto'd modern cards). However, when it comes to vintage cards, PSA IS the authority. They grade stricter than BGS and cards in a particular grade will be much better in a PSA holder, resell wise, and overall sharpness. THAT IS A FACT, and I DO deal in vintage. A lot of it.

[adamsbetter]

There was just a thread on this exact topic last week. IIRC I'm pretty sure the POP reports will bear out that PSA is tougher than BGS on the Griffey '89 UD RC which is why the PSA commands a premium for the "same" grade.

its that way for almost any vintage card you can look up, but the guy commenting about BGS being stricter doesn't actually do any research he just comments.

[WCTYSON]

why are you even commenting about graded vintage cards when you just said you don't even deal with them? It's obvious to the people that actually do deal in vintage that you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, BGS has subgrades, yes BGS carries more value for modern cards (not because of anything other than PSA did a sh!tty job of marketing and inventing holders for oversize, bulky patch and auto'd modern cards). However, when it comes to vintage cards, PSA IS the authority. They grade stricter than BGS and cards in a particular grade will be much better in a PSA holder, resell wise, and overall sharpness. THAT IS A FACT, and I DO deal in vintage. A lot of it.

I know which one I would buy.

$10,000

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMDA5/z/1TEAAOxyVLNSpjaV/$_57.JPG

$11,000

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MVg5MjY=/z/Fx8AAOxyXDhSgsBL/$_57.JPG

[adamsbetter]

those are 2 different grades!! See you don't even know what the equivalencies are. PSA and BGS/BVG have the same grades except PSA doesn't have a 9.5 that's where the BGS 9.5 rivals the PSA 10. All of the other grades have the same theoretical equivalency. Find a BGS 3 to make a fair comparison

A BGS 3 has an avg. VCP of $8300

Latest Auction Prices for: BVG 3 - Average Price: $8,300.50

1/18/14 eBay Listing $8,600.00
11/29/13 eBay Auction $8,001.00
12/15/08 eBay $7,405.43
12/1/08 eBay $8,200.00
10/20/06 eBay $5,300.00

While a PSA 3 has an avg. VCP of $11,476


Grid View Ebay

Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 3 - Average Price: $11,476.66

2/4/14 eBay Listing $12,000.00
12/29/13 eBay Listing $11,000.00
12/20/13 Memory Lane Auction $10,273.30
10/23/13 eBay Listing $14,000.00
10/22/13 eBay Listing $12,500.00
10/10/13 eBay Auction $11,610.00
9/16/13 eBay Listing $8,500.00
2/4/13 eBay $7,000.00
2/1/13 eBay $7,000.00
12/16/12 Memory Lane $8,416.87
11/11/12 eBay $7,188.00
8/31/12 Legendary $8,365.00
8/14/12 eBay $7,500.00
6/21/12 Mile High $7,723.10
5/28/12 eBay $7,300.98
5/16/12 eBay $8,700.67
5/13/12 REA $7,110.00
1/29/12 eBay $6,600.00
8/3/11 eBay $7,271.71
6/1/11 Huggins & Scott $8,225.00
4/9/11 eBay $8,003.00
3/2/11 eBay $7,800.00
12/12/10 Memory Lane $7,394.50
11/24/10 eBay $6,200.00
11/16/10 eBay $6,550.00

[itradeerrors]

I know which one I would buy.

$10,000

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMDA5/z/1TEAAOxyVLNSpjaV/$_57.JPG

$11,000

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MVg5MjY=/z/Fx8AAOxyXDhSgsBL/$_57.JPG

Those are the 2 different versions of the 52 Mantle. I like how you chose the better looking version in a half grade higher holder. I personally like the version in the Beckett holder also but would never buy anything from the seller.

Edited to add the top card in the Beckett holder looks to have been soaked more than once to remove stains. Look at the card surface it is obvious.

[WCTYSON]

those are 2 different grades!! See you don't even know what the equivalencies are. PSA and BGS/BVG have the same grades except PSA doesn't have a 9.5 that's where the BGS 9.5 rivals the PSA 10. All of the other grades have the same theoretical equivalency. Find a BGS 3 to make a fair comparison

A BGS 3 has an avg. VCP of $8300

Latest Auction Prices for: BVG 3 - Average Price: $8,300.50

1/18/14 eBay Listing $8,600.00
11/29/13 eBay Auction $8,001.00
12/15/08 eBay $7,405.43
12/1/08 eBay $8,200.00
10/20/06 eBay $5,300.00

While a PSA 3 has an avg. VCP of $11,476


Grid View Ebay

Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 3 - Average Price: $11,476.66

2/4/14 eBay Listing $12,000.00
12/29/13 eBay Listing $11,000.00
12/20/13 Memory Lane Auction $10,273.30
10/23/13 eBay Listing $14,000.00
10/22/13 eBay Listing $12,500.00
10/10/13 eBay Auction $11,610.00
9/16/13 eBay Listing $8,500.00
2/4/13 eBay $7,000.00
2/1/13 eBay $7,000.00
12/16/12 Memory Lane $8,416.87
11/11/12 eBay $7,188.00
8/31/12 Legendary $8,365.00
8/14/12 eBay $7,500.00
6/21/12 Mile High $7,723.10
5/28/12 eBay $7,300.98
5/16/12 eBay $8,700.67
5/13/12 REA $7,110.00
1/29/12 eBay $6,600.00
8/3/11 eBay $7,271.71
6/1/11 Huggins & Scott $8,225.00
4/9/11 eBay $8,003.00
3/2/11 eBay $7,800.00
12/12/10 Memory Lane $7,394.50
11/24/10 eBay $6,200.00
11/16/10 eBay $6,550.00

Why in the hell do you keep quoting prices? My comments, as I have stated, are about quality comparisons. My pictures were to show you get higher quality for less $$$$$$ with BVG. I never argued that the PSA equal grades sold for less or more, though your 99% is off.

[adamsbetter]

They are 2 totally different grades!!! What part of BVG 3.5 does not equal PSA 3 do you not understand?