Anthony Davis Diamond Flawless 1/1 surfaces.... again! Out of the original case :(

[the27guy]

Hey guys,

Just saw this last night-

2012 13 Panini Flawless Diamond Platinum Anthony Davis RC True 1 1 BGS 9 5 Gem | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-13-PANINI-FLAWLESS-DIAMOND-PLATINUM-ANTHONY-DAVIS-RC-TRUE-1-1-BGS-9-5-GEM-/301147441098?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item461dc947ca)

It's out of the original casing. What do you guys think? Was this a mistake? I think so.

And the price tag.... don't get me started. At $7k.... this card made sense. At $45k? Uhhhhhh....... maybe a tad bit high? :rolleyes:

[Zacy87]

Probably just showing it off unless someone makes a ridiculous offer.

[IkeThis]

I agree. Killed it by taking out of original casing. What's the point of grading it?? It's a 1/1

[Zacy87]

I agree. Killed it by taking out of original casing. What's the point of grading it?? It's a 1/1

PC?
10 characters

[the27guy]

Good thoughts Zacy.... he can do what he wants with it.... show it off, get it graded, whatever. I guess the only question for me is, did he get it graded thinking it would increase the value? If he did, in my opinion, he made a mistake.

[crimedawg47]

Is it just me or does the centering left to right not look 9.5 worthy?

[hquiz]

I own a couple of this panini encased Flawless base cards and I would never take them out to grade.

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab216/bshamus/Flawless/6cf7515e-f8f7-4079-8851-378c3d529c1c.png (http://s865.photobucket.com/user/bshamus/media/Flawless/6cf7515e-f8f7-4079-8851-378c3d529c1c.png.html)

[the27guy]

hquiz.... I agree!

http://i62.tinypic.com/2j4wxts.jpg

[paul06901]

Is it just me or does the centering left to right not look 9.5 worthy?

Nope, it's FLAWLESS ;)


Centering definitely off ... and look at that bashed upper left corner ... 9 subgrade on corners? I'd say more like an 8 for that corner like that! ... but I'm no "EXPERT" grader like those BGS'ers! :coffee:

But that wouldn't give it the overall 9.5 GOLDDDD that BGS just HASSSSSS to give on super-high-end cards so their company looks good in the public eye!

Or was it submitted by someone who gives them thousands and thousands of dollars worth of business every year? Automatic 9.5! :cool:


What . a . freakin . sham . company !

:coffee::coffee::coffee:

[crimedawg47]

Nope, it's FLAWLESS ;)


Centering definitely off ... and look at that bashed upper left corner ... 9 subgrade on corners? I'd say more like an 8 for that corner like that! ... but I'm no "EXPERT" grader like those BGS'ers! :coffee:

But that wouldn't give it the overall 9.5 GOLDDDD that BGS just HASSSSSS to give on super-high-end cards so their company looks good in the public eye!

Or was it submitted by someone who gives them thousands and thousands of dollars worth of business every year? Automatic 9.5! :cool:


What . a . freakin . sham . company !

:coffee::coffee::coffee:

Agreed a million % with all of this :) I've only done submissions through group submits and feel we haven't always gotten the benefit of these favorable grades, so of course its my conspiracy that they don't like group submits :)

[WaiverWire]

If the person really wants to sell it, I think it's stupid that it's out of the original Flawless case. But that's just my opinion.

[minnesotachill]

Is it just me or does the centering left to right not look 9.5 worthy?

Close only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades and Beckett grading.

[WaiverWire]

So what do people estimate the value of the card to be now that it's out of the case? It sold for 7K previously. Is it 5K now? 7K? 10K? Obviously, "it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it," but what would you estimate that number to be? I'd say 5K-6K, since I do think it is worth less out of the original case.

[dashcounter]

you act like the case is special...its not. it's worth more now to the right buyer at a 9.5

[WaiverWire]

you act like the case is special...its not. it's worth more now to the right buyer at a 9.5

The case + Flawless sticker sealing the case is special to me. To me that is the "original form." And if that's the way it was in original form, then that's the way I want to keep it. And I say this as someone who specifically collects the diamond base cards.

[dashcounter]

The case + Flawless sticker sealing the case is special to me. To me that is the "original form." And if that's the way it was in original form, then that's the way I want to keep it. And I say this as someone who specifically collects the diamond base cards.

i can understand that but i think he's more trying to flip it to someone who wants to invest in davis and not a flawless collector. i guess it would look funny if you have a stack of the diamond cards in cases and this one in a bgs holder

[afrobandit]

Its an ultra pro magnetic with a sticker on it...grow up guys.

[paul06901]

Its an ultra pro magnetic with a sticker on it...grow up guys.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/BHW0/the-truth-hass-been-spoken/image.png

[the27guy]

I don't agree that it is worth more as a 9.5 now.... from those who I have spoken with, a Flawless base card in the holder is better than a graded one. I don't know anyone who is looking for graded Flawless, but I know several people who have put together base sets and the RC 10 card subset. In each case the collector was turned off by Flawless base being out of the original cases.

Having said that, it's still The Anthongy Davis Diamond 1/1. It's still a great card! I'm disappointing that it's out of the case, and would have had interest in buying it if it was still in the case, but that doesn't mean it's not a great card.

Waiverwire.... I have no idea what this did to the value of it, but if I HAD to guess.... I would say that prior to the grading it was a $10-$12k card, and now it's $7k-$10k. That's my best guestimate.

[WaiverWire]

Its an ultra pro magnetic with a sticker on it...grow up guys.

Why would "Flawless" sticker and original case be worth more?
It tells me that the card hasn't been trimmed or altered prior to grading.
It makes it more rare.

For example, according to BGS population report, 3 of the Harrison Barnes RC cards have been graded, which means there are no more than 17 in the original case. So that means instead of a /20 it's actually a /17 if you care about the original case. And if not, you know that 2 of those 3 Harrison Barnes were not graded Gem Mt so if someone is selling it in an ordinary case without a Flawless sticker, it's probably one of those two that got less than a 9.5 and was broken out of the BGS case.

[afrobandit]

Why would "Flawless" sticker and original case be worth more?
It tells me that the card hasn't been trimmed or altered prior to grading.
It makes it more rare.

For example, according to BGS population report, 3 of the Harrison Barnes RC cards have been graded, which means there are no more than 17 in the original case. So that means instead of a /20 it's actually a /17 if you care about the original case. And if not, you know that 2 of those 3 Harrison Barnes were not graded Gem Mt so if someone is selling it in an ordinary case without a Flawless sticker, it's probably one of those two that got less than a 9.5 and was broken out of the BGS case.

Those are a lot of assumptions. And if you think fakers aren't capable of removing and reapplying a sticker you are fooling yourself.

[WaiverWire]

Those are a lot of assumptions. And if you think fakers aren't capable of removing and reapplying a sticker you are fooling yourself.

Two steps ahead of you. I am keeping screenshot records of cards that have been busted out of the original cases because I suspect just what you are saying will eventually happen.

[marinocollector]

Two steps ahead of you. I am keeping screenshot records of cards that have been busted out of the original cases because I suspect just what you are saying will eventually happen.

LOL. So instead of patch fakers, we will have re-encasers?

I am of the mindset, I want the card how it was originally packed out. I just think the re-encasing idea is a funny twist. I do see it happening if the price warrants it.

[rttrffg2012]

LOL. So instead of patch fakers, we will have re-encasers?

I am of the mindset, I want the card how it was originally packed out. I just think the re-encasing idea is a funny twist. I do see it happening if the price warrants it.

The most worstest post ever! That's right,WORSTEST!

Even the gods at panini can mis-handle a card.
The only thing holding the case together is a sticker that old lady's buy at the dollar store for their garage sales.

[dasiegel]

i dont think it matters, but if it was graded less than a 9.5 i woulda wanted it in the original value. i wouldnt want this card any more or less bc it was graded tho.

[inopethflames]

i dont think the guy just posted it to show off, he put a ridiculous amount of typing and articles into his post, that probably took an hour or more to do.

i think a bgs 9.5 would generally be worth more than the original uncirculated version. no one is going to get a diamond 1/1 set, so the buyers are ad collectors, or future resellers. i could see if you were going for a complete /20 base set you'd want them all in the cases & not 1-2 in a bgs case, but for a single card like this, you at least have the official bgs grade on it, that lends some level of cache or further level of authentication, whether you really care what bgs grades or not.

if the seller got it at $7k or around there, i doubt he would sell it for less than $12k, he probably would want at least $15k for it. thats too high for a reseller unless maybe they live in japan or nyc and personally know super high end collectors who might pay 20k for it. ur not gonna buy that card for 15k and then hope to resell it for 16k. the buyer will either be an ad supercollector or a big card shop / person who gets it for low enough that they can resell it.

[thenashcollecto]

Just another 1/1 auto. Doesn't matter the holder. I think it's a boring card.

[the27guy]

i dont think the guy just posted it to show off, he put a ridiculous amount of typing and articles into his post, that probably took an hour or more to do.

i think a bgs 9.5 would generally be worth more than the original uncirculated version. no one is going to get a diamond 1/1 set, so the buyers are ad collectors, or future resellers. i could see if you were going for a complete /20 base set you'd want them all in the cases & not 1-2 in a bgs case, but for a single card like this, you at least have the official bgs grade on it, that lends some level of cache or further level of authentication, whether you really care what bgs grades or not.

if the seller got it at $7k or around there, i doubt he would sell it for less than $12k, he probably would want at least $15k for it. thats too high for a reseller unless maybe they live in japan or nyc and personally know super high end collectors who might pay 20k for it. ur not gonna buy that card for 15k and then hope to resell it for 16k. the buyer will either be an ad supercollector or a big card shop / person who gets it for low enough that they can resell it.

Good points here....

I agree that it's more important on the Base and the Emeralds to keep them in the original case, but it's probably less important here.

[blackmarkers]

If the OP owned this card he would value it at 60k! lol Whatever he owns he hypes.

And for the cards he wants he tries to drive the price down. In his opinion an ultra pro magnetic case added 2-3k in value to a 1/1 lol. Man the card is pretty much worthless now..

I prefer the original case myself but come on.. at least its BGS 9.5 (centering sub grade is questionable though)

[jj2]

Nope, it's FLAWLESS ;)


Centering definitely off ... and look at that bashed upper left corner ... 9 subgrade on corners? I'd say more like an 8 for that corner like that! ... but I'm no "EXPERT" grader like those BGS'ers! :coffee:

But that wouldn't give it the overall 9.5 GOLDDDD that BGS just HASSSSSS to give on super-high-end cards so their company looks good in the public eye!

Or was it submitted by someone who gives them thousands and thousands of dollars worth of business every year? Automatic 9.5! :cool:


What . a . freakin . sham . company !

:coffee::coffee::coffee:

Or it could just be that you can't actually really tell from that crappy scan how good or bad the corners are.

[xavieronly1]

If the OP owned this card he would value it at 60k! lol Whatever he owns he hypes.

And for the cards he wants he tries to drive the price down. In his opinion an ultra pro magnetic case added 2-3k in value to a 1/1 lol. Man the card is pretty much worthless now..

I prefer the original case myself but come on.. at least its BGS 9.5 (centering sub grade is questionable though)

When was the last time the thread is about flawless and OP is not there?

[GemMT]

I personally would have preferred it in the original case with Flawless sticker.. It would have went better for completing a "Rainbow"... plus 45K?? 45K would buy a lot of nice cards or sealed cases!

[cashout]

went from being FLAWLESS to subgrades that say otherwise...

SMH!!

[LuckySlayer]

If I was collecting the base set id only want the encased original.
But as for the variations and other encased cards I like bgs better if you can hit gold!

[Brekbc9]

I can't stand the look of graded card cases. They always throw off the look of the card, especially Beckett's with that God awful looking gold and black label that looks like it was formatted from those name boards people put on their desk.

[topbasketballfa]

A bgs 9.5 or 10 won't hurt the card. most PC collect for the player and the rareness, not the set. in time, the flawless encasing is overrated. the flawless fanbase is hyping these encasing, it's nothing but a sticker. just think about it this way, anyone can submit to bgs for getting a 10 prisitine, if it doesn't come back, he slaps it back on with the sticker and no one knows about it. Encasing by the product is a trend and nothing more, they've done that in past with limited runs like topps thriple threads and panini limited, lower end products. some topps chrome refractors had the original encasing on it too and they werent given much a premium esp not much over a bgs 9.5 nor a bgs 10. what got me is this is already a 1/1, no need to really get it graded, it'll demand what ever price for the true Anthony Davis collector. it's like grading a lebron 23/99 or a lebron / jordan logoman 1/1. sure it looks nice in a bgs 9.5 or 10 gets a lil premium, but it's worth a 1/1.

[the27guy]

A bgs 9.5 or 10 won't hurt the card. most PC collect for the player and the rareness, not the set. in time, the flawless encasing is overrated. the flawless fanbase is hyping these encasing, it's nothing but a sticker. just think about it this way, anyone can submit to bgs for getting a 10 prisitine, if it doesn't come back, he slaps it back on with the sticker and no one knows about it. Encasing by the product is a trend and nothing more, they've done that in past with limited runs like topps thriple threads and panini limited, lower end products. some topps chrome refractors had the original encasing on it too and they werent given much a premium esp not much over a bgs 9.5 nor a bgs 10. what got me is this is already a 1/1, no need to really get it graded, it'll demand what ever price for the true Anthony Davis collector. it's like grading a lebron 23/99 or a lebron / jordan logoman 1/1. sure it looks nice in a bgs 9.5 or 10 gets a lil premium, but it's worth a 1/1.

Good point about putting the card back in the case.... Question though.... I know some Panini stickers show "VOID" if tampered with, at least on wax (National Treasure for example has a seal on the inner box that shows void w wear). Does anybody here know what happens when you peal away the panini sticker? If you can just stick it back on, then this is obviously a non-issue.

[topbasketballfa]

these shady people have ways to slap a better patch into a card with no visible wears to the patch window, to get a sticker on an encasing made by ultra pro, zillions of them, without tampering evidence would be a mickey mouse task for them.

i remember just a couple years ago, a lebron topps chrome xfractor with the original encasing only sold for slightly above (maybe 5-10%) of its raw, while a bgs 9.5 (subs of 9.5 across the board, sold for more than double). that made sense as if there is really Really REALLY a premium for these encasing, shady fraudulent dickheads would begin encasing and selling them this way.

[bmf]

the best card out of the entire flawless product? in a word:

BWAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

seller is delusional or has a black belt in hype

[afrobandit]

Someone should take the diamond out and put in a BIGGER DIAMOND

[coolz]

Can You trust BGS grades nowadays??

[tanana]

Purchased for 7k :eek:

eBay Link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-13-PANINI-FLAWLESS-DIAMOND-ANTHONY-DAVIS-BASE-CARD-1-1-RC-ROOKIE-WOW-/251438721236?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3a8aea68d4&nma=true&si=PuCL7vheCM5V1c4ktrC3kIA9Ogc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

Good point about putting the card back in the case.... Question though.... I know some Panini stickers show "VOID" if tampered with, at least on wax (National Treasure for example has a seal on the inner box that shows void w wear). Does anybody here know what happens when you peal away the panini sticker? If you can just stick it back on, then this is obviously a non-issue.

This is what happens...

Link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Larry-Bird-12-13-Flawless-Emerald-on-card-Auto-1-5-/201068241717?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item2ed099e335&nma=true&si=PuCL7vheCM5V1c4ktrC3kIA9Ogc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

[mjw9002]

the only cards i have ever sort out to buy graded is topps chrome 03-04 other then that most cards i prefer raw in a one touch.

[the27guy]

Purchased for 7k :eek:

eBay Link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-13-PANINI-FLAWLESS-DIAMOND-ANTHONY-DAVIS-BASE-CARD-1-1-RC-ROOKIE-WOW-/251438721236?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3a8aea68d4&nma=true&si=PuCL7vheCM5V1c4ktrC3kIA9Ogc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)



This is what happens...

Link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Larry-Bird-12-13-Flawless-Emerald-on-card-Auto-1-5-/201068241717?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item2ed099e335&nma=true&si=PuCL7vheCM5V1c4ktrC3kIA9Ogc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

Nice info! Thanks! Yeah, doesn't look like just putting it back in the case is going to be an option :)

[pepsiporch]

Card is the same in the original.holder or bgs 9.5
if the card got a 9 it would be bad for the seller

these diamonds are starting to lose there luster personally I would take a jumbo patch card over the diamond at least they are game used ,

[ninjacookies]

Unless these are a known condition sensitive set, you only hurt the value and collectibility by busting them out of the ORIGINAL cases.