Akili Smith: Manziel reminds me of myself

[Skootown]

OUCH


"Former Bengals megabust Akili Smith says Johnny Manziel's behavior reminds him of himself.

Smith admits he was a heavy drinker who made regular trips to Vegas during his playing days, and "focused on partying first and everything else second." "Yeah, it's written all over the wall with some of the things he's doing in the offseason, going to Vegas and all that stuff," Smith said of Manziel. "He needs to put all that type of stuff to the side right now and focus on his career." Manziel can shut up his detractors by beating out Brian Hoyer and playing well on Sundays. If he doesn't, concerns about his flashy lifestyle will grow louder."


Source: Cincinnati Enquirer

Jun 29 - 12:53 PM

[davdukes4]

Brett Favre: Manziel reminds me of myself.

Brett Favre says Johnny Manziel reminds him of himself | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/19/brett-favre-says-johnny-manziel-reminds-him-of-himself/)

Big time drinker (and more).
Liked having 'too much fun off the field'.
Where did that lead?
3 consecutive MVPs
Super Bowl champion
All time winningest quarterback
73000 yards
522 touchdowns


Woohoo!

[Braswell10]

Brett Favre: Manziel reminds me of myself.

Brett Favre says Johnny Manziel reminds him of himself | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/19/brett-favre-says-johnny-manziel-reminds-him-of-himself/)

Big time drinker (and more).
Liked having 'too much fun off the field'.
Where did that lead?
3 consecutive MVPs
Super Bowl champion
All time winningest quarterback
73000 yards
522 touchdowns


Woohoo!

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!

[BrewCrewBall27]

Brett Favre: Manziel reminds me of myself.

Brett Favre says Johnny Manziel reminds him of himself | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/19/brett-favre-says-johnny-manziel-reminds-him-of-himself/)

Big time drinker (and more).
Liked having 'too much fun off the field'.
Where did that lead?
3 consecutive MVPs
Super Bowl champion
All time winningest quarterback
73000 yards
522 touchdowns


Woohoo!

Favre turned it around though, not sure if Manziel will...

[mrmojorisin71]

Favre turned it around though, not sure if Manziel will...

I'm not sure if it will rain tomorrow

[indyguy]

I do like how people will say "But Brett Favre...."

Sure, that is one example that worked out. Here are a few more that did not that are very similar:

Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Ryan Leaf
JaMarcus Russell

[asujbl]

Lets not act like 90% of NFL players aren't doing the same thing. Manziel is just an idiot when it comes to social media.

There was a huge blog post (I'll have to find it) where a guy went out and found like 50-75 instagram photos for other NFL guys in Vegas, Miami, LA, NYC, and wherever the same weekend that JFF was in Vegas with Gronk.

No one covered any of that.

JFF needs to cool it on making it known where he is - but his handlers don't seem to care what he posts on Twitter or Instagram.

[bradical]

And on the seventh day, JFF created football.

[davdukes4]

If you want to be pessimistic about Manziel you should be pessimistic about all rookie quarterbacks. They will all likely fail.

My only issue with Manziel having fun is the hit his legacy will take. He could win 3 MVPs and a Super Bowl. There will still be 100,000 people waiting for him to fail. Waiting for that interception, so they can say, "I told you so". It's sad really. He isn't hurting anyone. He is going to practice, he is working his tail off. Life is short, Let the man enjoy his.

[Skootown]

"ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported on SportsCenter Friday that the Browns have approached Johnny Manziel about "toning it down," with regard to his actions on social media.

Owner Jimmy Haslam was "bothered" by Manziel's recent posting of a "Money Phone" (stack of bills held to the ear) on Instagram. The Browns seem more concerned with Manziel's social media behavior than his well-publicized weekend partying. Approached by the Cleveland Plain Dealer Friday morning, Manziel told the paper "I don't think I'm doing anything wrong," and "I'm not going to change for anybody." Earlier this month, Ben Tate described media coverage of Manziel as "annoying," hinting it may be a distraction in the locker room. ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi stated Friday that he's never seen Manziel-like behavior from a Browns player. Grossi has been covering the Browns for 30 years. "


The bolded text is the kind of stuff that is a red flag to me. While I could really care less what someone his age does in the offseason, he could definitely have a better attitude about it. I mean, "I'm not gonna change for anybody" is probably the last thing a coach wants to hear. While others may be doing the same, for better or worse he has an insane amount of hype around him right now and he knows that.

But, as we all know, his play on the field will be all that matters in the end.

[ILOVEBEER]

Lets not act like 90% of NFL players aren't doing the same thing. Manziel is just an idiot when it comes to social media.

There was a huge blog post (I'll have to find it) where a guy went out and found like 50-75 instagram photos for other NFL guys in Vegas, Miami, LA, NYC, and wherever the same weekend that JFF was in Vegas with Gronk.

No one covered any of that.

JFF needs to cool it on making it known where he is - but his handlers don't seem to care what he posts on Twitter or Instagram.

Browns' Joe Haden has advice for Johnny Manziel and friends when they're out: 'put your phones away' | cleveland.com (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/06/browns_joe_haden_has_advice_fo.html)

Joe Haden says the same thing. Manziel gets caught because he is popular and identifiable. If some OL from the Lions jumped on a swan, no one would care. Tebow probably lives the most boring life in the world and he still sucks.

[asujbl]

Browns' Joe Haden has advice for Johnny Manziel and friends when they're out: 'put your phones away' | cleveland.com (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/06/browns_joe_haden_has_advice_fo.html)

Joe Haden says the same thing. Manziel gets caught because he is popular and identifiable. If some OL from the Lions jumped on a swan, no one would care. Tebow probably lives the most boring life in the world and he still sucks.

Comparing apples to apples (even though they aren't the same position obviously)

Justin Gilbert posted a bunch of photos from Miami the same weekend.

No one cared - and he was the "higher drafted" 1st rounder by Cleveland.

JFF just shouldn't have posted the group pictures.

[gmarutiak]

I do like how people will say "But Brett Favre...."

Sure, that is one example that worked out. Here are a few more that did not that are very similar:

Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Ryan Leaf
JaMarcus Russell

How the heck are these guys very similar (to Manziel, or each other) in any way?

[davdukes4]

How the heck are these guys very similar (to Manziel, or each other) in any way?

He is just posting the biggest busts he could think of lol.


"ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported on SportsCenter Friday that the Browns have approached Johnny Manziel about "toning it down," with regard to his actions on social media.

Owner Jimmy Haslam was "bothered" by Manziel's recent posting of a "Money Phone" (stack of bills held to the ear) on Instagram. The Browns seem more concerned with Manziel's social media behavior than his well-publicized weekend partying. Approached by the Cleveland Plain Dealer Friday morning, Manziel told the paper "I don't think I'm doing anything wrong," and "I'm not going to change for anybody." Earlier this month, Ben Tate described media coverage of Manziel as "annoying," hinting it may be a distraction in the locker room. ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi stated Friday that he's never seen Manziel-like behavior from a Browns player. Grossi has been covering the Browns for 30 years. "


The bolded text is the kind of stuff that is a red flag to me. While I could really care less what someone his age does in the offseason, he could definitely have a better attitude about it. I mean, "I'm not gonna change for anybody" is probably the last thing a coach wants to hear. While others may be doing the same, for better or worse he has an insane amount of hype around him right now and he knows that.

But, as we all know, his play on the field will be all that matters in the end.

Why is Cleveland front office surprised? or anyone else for that matter? Manziel has been upfront and honest about this the whole way through. He told them he wasn't going to change pre-draft...but now they think he is going to change? They knew who they were drafting and they knew who he was.

Then you post something Ben Tate said out of context. He said he doesn't like the media. He didn't say he didn't like Johnny. It's these desperate reporters desperate for a story. It's the same thing they did to Favre. The media would be on around the clock coverage of Favre's 'decision', literally video taping him driving circles on his tractor in the summer. The media creates these 'stories' and people eat them up.

Ben Tates twitter response to the media twisting his comments:
Ben Tate ✔ @BenTateRB
Follow
"And for ppl trying to say I dissed Johnny I got 1 finger up to yall and it's not my pointer. My point was I'm sure he is tired of it all"
7:48 PM - 2 Jun 2014



I don't understand why grown men care so much about what another grown man does in his free time...Especially when he isn't doing anything wrong!! The irony of it all is that half the people posting hate comments about how Johnny needs to grow up and prioritize are probably slamming a sixer while posting on blogs, ignoring their children in the next room.

[MW Connection]

I am actually rooting for the Kid because there are so many haters out there.

[superynaldo]

You mess with the bull, you get the horns... Bull=Johnny Football... They knew what they were getting when they drafted him... Now deal with it... He is what he is...

[marinocollector]

this is ludicrous, Akili Smith was never this talented.

[packerfan4200]

this is ludicrous, Akili Smith was never this talented.

He was good enough to be drafted 3rd overall. That requires a little bit of talent otherwise everyone would be doing it.

[SDcardguy24]

Going to find Ryan Leaf and offer him $20 if he tells everyone that Manziel remind him of himself :D

[mrmojorisin71]

Going to find Ryan Leaf and offer him $20 if he tells everyone that Manziel remind him of himself :D

I'm certain two Vicodin and a mickeys 40oz will do, save yourself 10 bucks

[davdukes4]

Going to find Ryan Leaf and offer him $20 if he tells everyone that Manziel remind him of himself :D

Montana State Prison. 400 Conley Lake Road, Deer Lodge, MT 59722 406-846-1320.

[Burks]

The kids a winner and has proven it. You think he didn't party in school? He probably drank more in a year than I have my entire life.

Some guys are able to keep their party life and football (or any sport) career apart. Will Manziel? So far....he's done a good job of it. Now he has peers telling him don't do this, don't do that. Will he change? No. Take a small step back? Quite possibly. I can't see this kid being content being a backup.

I'm betting he turns out just fine (I did buy my first NFL jersey ever, and it was his). Cleveland needs a win.

[TheFrenzy]

I've always been half-tempted to start a PC of Akili Smith.

[AP4MVP]

Brett Favre: Manziel reminds me of myself.

Brett Favre says Johnny Manziel reminds him of himself | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/19/brett-favre-says-johnny-manziel-reminds-him-of-himself/)

Big time drinker (and more).
Liked having 'too much fun off the field'.
Where did that lead?
3 consecutive MVPs
Super Bowl champion
All time winningest quarterback
73000 yards
522 touchdowns


Woohoo!

Dont forget being a INT machine and sending junk pics to females

[canuhandle23]

why would he need to remember sending naked pics of his junk e anything he needs 2 remember

[Srt42004n]

Reminds me of a smaller Ryan Leaf...

[ManInTheMirror]

Reminds me of a smaller Ryan Leaf...
How so exactly?

[Ray27Ray52]

I'm not rooting for Manziel to fail, but at the same time i'm going to have a hell of a laugh if (when) he does.

[Skootown]

I'm not rooting for Manziel to fail, but at the same time i'm going to have a hell of a laugh if (when) he does.

Gonna be a TON of angry people if he does, considering people are paying Luck prices for him right now.

I hope he does well because will be good for collecting, and because I honestly just feel bad for the Browns.

[Ray27Ray52]

Gonna be a TON of angry people if he does, considering people are paying Luck prices for him right now.

I hope he does well because will be good for collecting, and because I honestly just feel bad for the Browns.

A Bowman Chrome auto 2/5 of Manziel sold for $3500 yesterday. It was an off Ebay sale. Let that sink in for a minute. $3500. Absurd.

[deltapi1049]

You had all better pray that Manziel tears it up, or its going to be a pretty normal year opening boxes. With him in the spotlight, more potential to get nice stuff.

I think he is going to fall flat on his face, but I want him to succeed so the cards I pull will be worth more. Makes that 100 dollar box a lot easier to stomach.

[packerfan4200]

A Bowman Chrome auto 2/5 of Manziel sold for $3500 yesterday. It was an off Ebay sale. Let that sink in for a minute. $3500. Absurd.

Wow that is a gigantic waste of about $3200. A fool is easily separated from his money I guess.

[indyguy]

How the heck are these guys very similar (to Manziel, or each other) in any way?

He is just posting the biggest busts he could think of lol.

You two serious or just trolling?

They were guys that liked to party, just like Manziel. They were all first round talents, just like Manziel.

They didn't take their jobs seriously and look where they are now.

It isn't that hard to see the comparisons.

[davdukes4]

You had all better pray that Manziel tears it up, or its going to be a pretty normal year opening boxes. With him in the spotlight, more potential to get nice stuff.

I think he is going to fall flat on his face, but I want him to succeed so the cards I pull will be worth more. Makes that 100 dollar box a lot easier to stomach.

I guess you don't have faith in bridgewater, Bortles, Carr, savage, mettenberger, mccarron, Murray, Fales, Boyd or garoppolo? Not to mention the deepest receiver class we've seen in a while.

[legion624]

Unless he comes out blowing it up and winning tons of games I think his prices will come back down to earth once chrome/contenders/5 star/NT comes out. I have no doubt some of the cards will be over 1k still but I don't think your going to see those type of prices once the season starts.

[Dawgfan01]

A Bowman Chrome auto 2/5 of Manziel sold for $3500 yesterday. It was an off Ebay sale. Let that sink in for a minute. $3500. Absurd.

Check this out. Still a day left on it.
2014 Bowman Chrome Johnny Manziel Xfractor Rookie Autograph 4 10 Browns Auto | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Bowman-chrome-Johnny-Manziel-XFRACTOR-rookie-autograph-4-10-Browns-AUTO-/121372243079?pt=US_Football&hash=item1c42597487)

[Ray27Ray52]

Check this out. Still a day left on it.
2014 Bowman Chrome Johnny Manziel Xfractor Rookie Autograph 4 10 Browns Auto | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Bowman-chrome-Johnny-Manziel-XFRACTOR-rookie-autograph-4-10-Browns-AUTO-/121372243079?pt=US_Football&hash=item1c42597487)

A fool and his money are soon parted. That's all I have to say about that.

[Skootown]

Check this out. Still a day left on it.
2014 Bowman Chrome Johnny Manziel Xfractor Rookie Autograph 4 10 Browns Auto | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Bowman-chrome-Johnny-Manziel-XFRACTOR-rookie-autograph-4-10-Browns-AUTO-/121372243079?pt=US_Football&hash=item1c42597487)

Am I the only one wanting to run out and buy some Bowman right now?

[indyguy]

Am I the only one wanting to run out and buy some Bowman right now?

Ha, no crap. I'll end up with the box/case full of the UDFA

[legion624]

Since these prices are so crazy, if the super is pulled before the season starts what do you think it will sell for? 5k, 6k?

[packerfan4200]

A fool and his money are soon parted. That's all I have to say about that.

There ya go:)!

[Skootown]

Since these prices are so crazy, if the super is pulled before the season starts what do you think it will sell for? 5k, 6k?

I just looked at some prices on ebay and couldn't believe his Bowman NON-AUTO 1/1 went for $1,500 :eek:

[MW Connection]

It is all just hype. Remember around this time in 2006? I remember a Reggie Bush elite rookie /599 sell for $135.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Tmz posted some pictures of Manziel partying with....Justin Bieber and Floyd Mayweather.

[88horsepower]

Tmz posted some pictures of Manziel partying with....Justin Bieber and Floyd Mayweather.

There's a great photo of three people who probably shouldn't contribute to the gene pool.

[HBMC]

Am I the only one wanting to run out and buy some Bowman right now?

Don't do it.

Ha, no crap. I'll end up with the box/case full of the UDFA

I just busted a box, even with a Short Printed Steelers Rookie, I might get $20-$25 in autos back. Thanks for nothing Stephen Morris. Ya dick.

[davdukes4]

Dont forget being a INT machine and sending junk pics to females


Touchdown to Interception ratio
Brett Favre 1.51

Roger Staubach 1.40 - 3 Superbowl appearances
Jim Kelley 1.35 - 4 consecutive Superbowl appearances
John Elway 1.32 - 5 Superbowl appearances
Fran Tarkenton 1.28 - 3 Superbowl appearances
Troy Aikman 1.17 - 3 Superbowl championships
Johnny Unitas 1.14 - 2 Superbowl and 4 championship game appearances
Bart Star 1.10 - 5 Championships
Terry Bradshaw 1.00 - 4 Superbowl championships
Joe Namath 0.78 - 1 Superbowl championship


Once Holmgren left town and the defense started retiring Brett was expected to do too much. He played on some subpar teams and still managed to have 17 winning seasons. At the age of 39 he went to a 4-12 jet team and turned them into a 9-7 team (even though he tore his bicep mid season).

People hate on Favre because of his antics and off the field 'issues'. Manziel will experience the same. It doesn't matter how good manziel turns out to be, people are going to try and bring him down because of who they think he is, not because of the football he played. Favre is the greatest statistical quarterback of all time. The only people who have a chance at passing him are playing in the new NFL. I'm sure most of you guys understand that.

[marinocollector]

He was good enough to be drafted 3rd overall. That requires a little bit of talent otherwise everyone would be doing it.

Akili Smith was never that talented. He's comparing himself to Manziel. Get a flippin clue. Akili only had one successful season in college as a Senior at Oregon nonetheless. If you cant see the large gap in talent, I can't help you.

The Bengals wasted the pick that year. It was a 100% potential pick. The guy couldnt even grasp an NFL playbook.

[blevins26]

Akili Smith was never that talented. He's comparing himself to Manziel. Get a flippin clue. Akili only had one successful season in college as a Senior at Oregon nonetheless. If you cant see the large gap in talent, I can't help you.

The Bengals wasted the pick that year. It was a 100% potential pick. The guy couldnt even grasp an NFL playbook.


It's easy to say that now. Do you think the Bengals made him the #3 overall pick based on just potential?

Busts are easy to see when they are busts. I think that at this point with Manziel, all you can do is look at the data in front of you:

1. Clearly a "look at me" guy.

2. He's small

3. He has average NFL speed for a scrambling QB. He's not sub-4.5

4. He has average NFL arm strength


Based on his measureables, I would think this dude would be locked down trying to keep a low profile. He's going to have a hard enough time being a good NFL QB without all the off the field stuff.....

On the other hand, maybe he realizes this is the best his life will ever be and is just enjoying the high life before it comes crashing down this season.

[davdukes4]

It's easy to say that now. Do you think the Bengals made him the #3 overall pick based on just potential?

Busts are easy to see when they are busts. I think that at this point with Manziel, all you can do is look at the data in front of you:

1. Clearly a "look at me" guy.

2. He's small

3. He has average NFL speed for a scrambling QB. He's not sub-4.5

4. He has average NFL arm strength


Based on his measureables, I would think this dude would be locked down trying to keep a low profile. He's going to have a hard enough time being a good NFL QB without all the off the field stuff.....

On the other hand, maybe he realizes this is the best his life will ever be and is just enjoying the high life before it comes crashing down this season.

I remember laughing out loud with my friends when the bengals took Akili Smith 3rd overall in the draft. Seriously, bengals gonna bengal.

[marinocollector]

It's easy to say that now. Do you think the Bengals made him the #3 overall pick based on just potential?

Busts are easy to see when they are busts. I think that at this point with Manziel, all you can do is look at the data in front of you:

1. Clearly a "look at me" guy.

2. He's small

3. He has average NFL speed for a scrambling QB. He's not sub-4.5

4. He has average NFL arm strength


Based on his measureables, I would think this dude would be locked down trying to keep a low profile. He's going to have a hard enough time being a good NFL QB without all the off the field stuff.....

On the other hand, maybe he realizes this is the best his life will ever be and is just enjoying the high life before it comes crashing down this season.

The data in front of you? OK.... so a player playing in the best defensive conference in college, and torching it, and finishing with a Heisman, improving his passing stats from his FRESHMAN year to his SOPHOMORE year, and is only 21 years old, is at the same talent level as a 24 year old QB, with only one full season under his belt, no accolades, was a junior college transfer is on the same level of talent because they were picked 3rd in the draft?
You know what I see when I read what you put? A kid who has the physical tools to be successful NOW in the NFL, and has not grown into his body yet. Do I wish he was taller than 6'0"? Yes, but Mike Vick was 6'0" and has had a pretty successful career as a scrambler and he is not nearly as good a pocket passer as Manziel. Manziel is not as quick on the 40, but he showed great elusiveness on the field.
I'm just saying, its absurd for Akili Smith to think he is anywhere close to Manziel's talent.
And if you think the Bengals picking him 3rd was an indication of his talent, you're absurd and never saw Akili Smith play in college.

[Qwasian]

if you think that michael vick is not as good of a pocket passer as johnny manziel you need to hand in your football pass........ he was WAYYYYYY better than manziel in the pocket and it's not even close.

none of the stuff manziel did at A&M work in the nfl...... you can't throw it up in the air 80 yards and hope your guy comes down with it.

[blevins26]

The data in front of you? OK.... so a player playing in the best defensive conference in college, and torching it, and finishing with a Heisman, improving his passing stats from his FRESHMAN year to his SOPHOMORE year, and is only 21 years old, is at the same talent level as a 24 year old QB, with only one full season under his belt, no accolades, was a junior college transfer is on the same level of talent because they were picked 3rd in the draft?
You know what I see when I read what you put? A kid who has the physical tools to be successful NOW in the NFL, and has not grown into his body yet. Do I wish he was taller than 6'0"? Yes, but Mike Vick was 6'0" and has had a pretty successful career as a scrambler and he is not nearly as good a pocket passer as Manziel. Manziel is not as quick on the 40, but he showed great elusiveness on the field.
I'm just saying, its absurd for Akili Smith to think he is anywhere close to Manziel's talent.
And if you think the Bengals picking him 3rd was an indication of his talent, you're absurd and never saw Akili Smith play in college.


I wasn't comparing Manziel to Smith per se. I was trying to point out that the teams that drafted each of them felt that they had their QB of the future at the time.

My larger point was to look at how Manziel projects to the NFL and realize that he is probably going to be a bust. Plenty of players have been great at the college level but didn't turn into great pros. Look at his measurables--he's unlikely to be a great NFL QB. In fact, if not for Russell Wilson, Manziel probably doesn't go in the first round.

[MeteoriteGuy]

Vick was (is?) a much better passer then he gets credits for. I imagine the dog thing has erased several years of dominants in most people's mind.

However, Marinocollector was spot on with Akili Smith and Manziel. Their pre-draft resumes are hardly comparable.

[Skootown]

Another thing that's interesting about the Johhny Football hype is that while fans and ESPN fluff the guy to no end, apparently actual NFL people feel differently.

More than 2/3 of the NFL passed on drafting JFF.

Not to say NFL scouts are always right, but the gap is interesting, especially when you look at these insane prices his cards are getting.

I'm assuming his prices at LEAST at Andrew Luck level right now if not more, which seems crazy. Obviously both came with a ton of hype, but Luck was gauranteed to be the #1 pick two years before he was even drafted.

[marinocollector]

Vick was (is?) a much better passer then he gets credits for. I imagine the dog thing has erased several years of dominants in most people's mind.

However, Marinocollector was spot on with Akili Smith and Manziel. Their pre-draft resumes are hardly comparable.

Vick really had only one season where he was a solid pocket passer. Every other year since 2010 he has been average at best. Nick Foles had a 30 pt gain in passer rating in the same system that they both had the same amount of time to learn. You guys really need to try harder rather than speak in absolutes. Vick has become a serviceable back up with his knowledge, but he is not a good pocket passer.

[Qwasian]

Vick really had only one season where he was a solid pocket passer. Every other year since 2010 he has been average at best. Nick Foles had a 30 pt gain in passer rating in the same system that they both had the same amount of time to learn. You guys really need to try harder rather than speak in absolutes. Vick has become a serviceable back up with his knowledge, but he is not a good pocket passer.

you compared him to manziel, vick is a better pocket passer than manziel, not foles. 90% of manziels plays in college were run around & throw it up to let mike evans fight for the ball because he's bigger & stronger than the guy covering him, that doesn't work in the NFL. infact I doubt you can show me many highlights of manziel where mike evans isn't catching the ball.

[legion624]

I think the main place where Manziel falls behind Vick is arm strength. Vick can throw a frozen rope 60-70 yards no problem while you won't be able to find a scouting report around saying Manziel has anything more than an average arm. I think he is more talented then Smith though.

[hreed2]

Another thing that's interesting about the Johhny Football hype is that while fans and ESPN fluff the guy to no end, apparently actual NFL people feel differently.

More than 2/3 of the NFL passed on drafting JFF.

Not to say NFL scouts are always right, but the gap is interesting, especially when you look at these insane prices his cards are getting.

I understand what you're trying to say here but that's not necessarily fair to say that because 2/3rds of the teams in the NFL passed on him in the draft because they feel differently about him. If you look at who passed on him aruguably only 6 teams or so would have any interest in a QB and out of those 6 teams I'd say only 3 or 4 of them would need a QB enough to draft on in the first round (out of those teams Jax took Bortles and the Browns did end up drafting Manziel after passing on him).

[Qwasian]

I understand what you're trying to say here but that's not necessarily fair to say that because 2/3rds of the teams in the NFL passed on him in the draft because they feel differently about him. If you look at who passed on him aruguably only 6 teams or so would have any interest in a QB and out of those 6 teams I'd say only 3 or 4 of them would need a QB enough to draft on in the first round (out of those teams Jax took Bortles and the Browns did end up drafting Manziel after passing on him).

the browns don't even believe in him, bortles is the day 1 starter in jacksonville, cleveland told johnny football to win the job and he's only the #2 QB taken, it's already hoyers job. unless he's going to miraculously become somebody he's not already he's going to struggle in the NFL and teams already know it. if teams believed in him he would have never been on the browns. 6 teams is "ALOT" to pass on you.

[davdukes4]

I wasn't comparing Manziel to Smith per se. I was trying to point out that the teams that drafted each of them felt that they had their QB of the future at the time.

My larger point was to look at how Manziel projects to the NFL and realize that he is probably going to be a bust. Plenty of players have been great at the college level but didn't turn into great pros. Look at his measurables--he's unlikely to be a great NFL QB. In fact, if not for Russell Wilson, Manziel probably doesn't go in the first round.

The majority of all 1st round quarterbacks are going to be busts. I don't see your point. Bortles is likely going to be a bust at 3. Bridgewater is likely to be a bust at 32. Manuel was likely to be a bust. Really the only one qb I can think of that was not likely to be a bust was Luck.

[blevins26]

The majority of all 1st round quarterbacks are going to be busts. I don't see your point. Bortles is likely going to be a bust at 3. Bridgewater is likely to be a bust at 32. Manuel was likely to be a bust. Really the only one qb I can think of that was not likely to be a bust was Luck.

Care to offer any analysis as to why you think those guys won't be successful or is your word all we need? At least I explained why I thought Manziel would be a bust.

The point is that Manziel is going to have a hard enough time being a successful NFL QB just based on his arm & size so why make it harder on yourself by also being a douchebag? Why not lay low, keep your head down, and keep a target off your back?

It just seems like he's put himself in a position where even if he gets the starting job, people will be waiting to see him falter so they say it's all because of his partying.

[BirdLaw]

It is all just hype. Remember around this time in 2006? I remember a Reggie Bush elite rookie /599 sell for $135.

And Young. And Leinart. 2006 went from one of the most hyped classes to one of the least productive. You can now find some higher end boxes from that year for 30-40 bucks.

[davdukes4]

Teddy has a weak arm, small hands, small frame, thin knees, low wonderlic, bounced passes in his pro day (aka job interview), nearly all of his tape was of him beating up on a bunch of nobodies in a weak conference.

Bortles is a project quarterback. At the beginning of the off season he was a potential late 1st round project pick...Then they see him in gym shorts and he jumps to the 3rd overall pick. It doesn't help that he is playing for the Jaguars. Toby Gerhardt and rookie receivers aren't going to make his transition from a small school to the nfl any easier. He wasn't impressive on tape (against low level competition).

Just a quick summary of why the other 2 1st round picks are more than likely to bust.
I actually have high expectations for all of them, but that doesn't change the fact that most 1st round qbs are going to bust.


In regards to Johnny, you think he's a d-bag and don't like his persona....but people are paying $3500 for his bowman auto. People like 'Johnny Football'. As he has said all along, he is going to be himself. He really doesn't care if some internet warriors spend their days bashing him. He's not going to put on some fake act and lie to your face like a lot of athletes (and people openly accept these type of athletes for some reason).

He is hanging out with the most relevant singers and athletes in the world. We are arguing over him on internet forums. What gets me with people hating on Favre and Manziel is that those two guys love football. They get fired up. They lay in on the line. They aren't out there for the pay check. They are out there to win. To be honest, if anyone understands how important it is to win, it's Johnny. He didn't get where he is by losing. If he wants to stay relevant he is going to need to play well and win.


And who cares what they do in their down time? I don't know why you expect them to live life by your rules. If they put the time on the practice field and in the film room, what does it matter if he goes out on the weekend during the off season? Work hard, play hard. There has to be a balance. He's a single 21 year old guy with no kids.

[Stat Monsters]

Manziel's failure will be good for both the sport and the hobby.

His card prices are priced as if he's actually accomplished something on the professional field, not just as a speculative prospect. If he does well, future late round QB pricing will continue to start out higher. If he fails, as Tebow, Jamarcus, Young, Leinart, Quinn, etc. have, it gives the hobby speculators that much needed reality check to temper their overzealous expectations.

As an athlete, 'tho he's done well on the college level, he's coming in with a less humble attitude and near birthright as an all-pro with too much swagger. He needs to earn his bragging rights, otherwise should let his game play do the talking first. I get it, everybody loves a cocky flamboyant player like Deion Sanders, Tony Mandarich, Brian Bosworth, Terrell Owens, Keyshawn Johnson, Andre Rison, etc. they're colorful and entertaining to some and annoying to others. Rookies should be respectful to the game, the team and the owners however.

I think part of the criticism is based on race. He's White, so expected to be gentlemanly, but some see him acting up like he should know better and emulating a Justin Bieber "wigger" type attitude. If this were a Black athlete, most would consider such antics he's pulling off as cool swagger and ghetto cred.

He's coming to the field in a near can't win scenario, he's over promising and can only under deliver, or at best do well, but that's simply what's expected, so can probably never exceed expectations.

[88horsepower]

Manziel's failure will be good for both the sport and the hobby.

His card prices are priced as if he's actually accomplished something on the professional field, not just as a speculative prospect. If he does well, future late round QB pricing will continue to start out higher. If he fails, as Tebow, Jamarcus, Young, Leinart, Quinn, etc. have, it gives the hobby speculators that much needed reality check to temper their overzealous expectations.

As an athlete, 'tho he's done well on the college level, he's coming in with a less humble attitude and near birthright as an all-pro with too much swagger. He needs to earn his bragging rights, otherwise should let his game play do the talking first. I get it, everybody loves a cocky flamboyant player like Deion Sanders, Tony Mandarich, Brian Bosworth, Terrell Owens, Keyshawn Johnson, Andre Rison, etc. they're colorful and entertaining to some and annoying to others. Rookies should be respectful to the game, the team and the owners however.

I think part of the criticism is based on race. He's White, so expected to be gentlemanly, but some see him acting up like he should know better and emulating a Justin Bieber "wigger" type attitude. If this were a Black athlete, most would consider such antics he's pulling off as cool swagger and ghetto cred.

He's coming to the field in a near can't win scenario, he's over promising and can only under deliver, or at best do well, but that's simply what's expected, so can probably never exceed expectations.

Couldn't have said it better myself, man.

[k13]

Johnny has no chance to be anywhere close to favre.

He's a white vince young.

[blevins26]

I wonder how much impact Luck has had on how we (including myself) view QB's coming into the NFL.

His is basically the perfect storm for a prospect:

1. Highly Successful on the college level

2. Multiple years success in college

3. Top Tier measurables/draft progression

4. Great rookie season

5. Even better 2nd season

I feel like it has jaded me quite a bit on other rookie QBs. There's no longer that giddy optimism that a Bortles or Manziel will turn into a stud. It's been replaced by an intense fear that they will all be junk.

Has Luck set the bar too high?

[davdukes4]

Johnny has no chance to be anywhere close to favre.

He's a white vince young.

I agree that he has no chance to be Favre, I'm just playing devils advocate to the akili smith comments. The Vince young comparisons are pretty shallow. They can both move and won a heisman, that's about where the comparisons end. Young was as dumb as a box of rocks and was hanging out with trash/gang members. Johnny is sharp as a ginsui and is hanging out with the most relevant people in America. Vince was huge, johnny is undersized. I don't see the comparison besides the fact that you believe he will be a mobile qb who busts in the nfl.

Which quarterbacks from this draft do you believe will be more successful in the nfl than Manziel? Name them.

[ManInTheMirror]

Reminds me of a smaller Ryan Leaf...

How so exactly?
Still waiting on a response.

[blevins26]

I agree that he has no chance to be Favre, I'm just playing devils advocate to the akili smith comments. The Vince young comparisons are pretty shallow. They can both move and won a heisman, that's about where the comparisons end. Young was as dumb as a box of rocks and was hanging out with trash/gang members. Johnny is sharp as a ginsui and is hanging out with the most relevant people in America. Vince was huge, johnny is undersized. I don't see the comparison besides the fact that you believe he will be a mobile qb who busts in the nfl.

Which quarterbacks from this draft do you believe will be more successful in the nfl than Manziel? Name them.


"The most relevant people in America"

I think your boat motor is set to troll

[Skootown]

I wonder how much impact Luck has had on how we (including myself) view QB's coming into the NFL.

His is basically the perfect storm for a prospect:

1. Highly Successful on the college level

2. Multiple years success in college

3. Top Tier measurables/draft progression

4. Great rookie season

5. Even better 2nd season

I feel like it has jaded me quite a bit on other rookie QBs. There's no longer that giddy optimism that a Bortles or Manziel will turn into a stud. It's been replaced by an intense fear that they will all be junk.

Has Luck set the bar too high?

He's the exception, not the rule. Luck is a freak, a once-in-a-generation talent. He was the most universally hyped QB to ever come out. They say even when Peyton came out there was some people that had him ranked #2. Andrew Luck was the consensus #1 pick two years before he was drafted. Can't really compare him to normal people, lol.

[legion624]

I don't think Luck's success so far on the field has anything to do with it. It has more to do with the way Manziel conducts his business off the field. Bortles, while not as accomplished on the field as Manziel, is much more low key and seems (from what I have seen at least) much more interested in football. Manziel obviously does not.

Another thing that might make contribute to you feeling jaded is listen to Luck and Manziel interview. Luck is always talking about making himself and his team better, what "We" need to do to improve, how "I" need to play better for the team to win. Manziel is "I" and "Me".

[legion624]

"The most relevant people in America"

I think your boat motor is set to troll

Thanks. That one threw me for a loop as well.

[ManInTheMirror]

Luck is a freak, a once-in-a-generation talent.
I love how people still talk/think like this. Keeps all the focus on his cards and not other quarterbacks.

[davdukes4]

"The most relevant people in America"

I think your boat motor is set to troll

I meant entertainment. Bieber, drake, Lebron, Mayweather....feel free to name some bigger stars and celebrities.

I pose the same question to you. Who do you believe will be more successfully than Manziel?

"The most relevant people in America"

I think your boat motor is set to troll

I don't think Luck's success so far on the field has anything to do with it. It has more to do with the way Manziel conducts his business off the field. Bortles, while not as accomplished on the field as Manziel, is much more low key and seems (from what I have seen at least) much more interested in football. Manziel obviously does not.

Another thing that might make contribute to you feeling jaded is listen to Luck and Manziel interview. Luck is always talking about making himself and his team better, what "We" need to do to improve, how "I" need to play better for the team to win. Manziel is "I" and "Me".

Bortles is more interested in football? That's just silly. Can you give me proof that he has done anything more than Manziel to prepare for the season? Have you personally seen him staying in his house studying the playbook? Or are we just going to assume he is because TMZ isn't putting him on the front page everytime he walks out his front door?


So besides Bortles, who else do you believe will be more successful than Manziel?

[Skootown]

I love how people still talk/think like this. Keeps all the focus on his cards and not other quarterbacks.

I'm confused. :confused:

You disagree?

[ManInTheMirror]

I'm confused. :confused:

You disagree?
Completely. I'm not knocking him he is a great player but to say "once in a generation talent" is so overblown it's not even funny.

[legion624]

Completely. I'm not knocking him he is a great player but to say "once in a generation talent" is so overblown it's not even funny.

To be honest though he is basically saying the same thing as every scout out there though. "He is the best QB prospect since Elway" was said more then once. Obviously that needs to translate to the field. In an article that was referenced in another thread on here yesterday a writer for ESPN interviewed NFL personnel (GMs, scouts, HCs) anonymously and had them rank the qbs. Luck was 5th in the league behind Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers and the last qb in Tier 1. So unless he either stops improving or gets worse in the near future I don't think it is overblown.

[ManInTheMirror]

Yes, I saw that list and it's a joke.

T1) Tom Brady
T1) Peyton Manning
T1) Aaron Rodgers
T1) Drew Brees
5) Andrew Luck
6) Philip Rivers
7) Ben Roethlisberger
T8) Tony Romo
T8) Matt Ryan
T8) Russell Wilson
T8) Eli Manning
12) Joe Flacco
13) Matthew Stafford
14) Colin Kaepernick

[davdukes4]

He turned a 2-14 team into an 11-5 team his rookie year. He improved on that with an amazing come from behind play off win in his 2nd year. He had mediocre talent surrounding him on offense. Rodgers didn't even start until his 4th season. I don't know why people don't see where Luck is headed. Te writing is on the wall and there are still doubters. In 2-3 years when manning/Brady and Brees kick the bucket, it is going to be Rodgers and Luck as the cream of the crop elite qbs. At that point Rodgers will be 33. Luck will be 27....he could be the best qb in the league at that point....and still have not hit his peak.

[Skootown]

From what I've seen, Luck has done everything to back up the hype thus far.

Year 1: First QB to be taken #1 and take their team to the playoffs as a rookie

Year 2: Advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs

All while putting up great stats. I'd say it's hard to argue against the hype at this point.

[davdukes4]

Yes, I saw that list and it's a joke.

T1) Tom Brady
T1) Peyton Manning
T1) Aaron Rodgers
T1) Drew Brees
5) Andrew Luck
6) Philip Rivers
7) Ben Roethlisberger
T8) Tony Romo
T8) Matt Ryan
T8) Russell Wilson
T8) Eli Manning
12) Joe Flacco
13) Matthew Stafford
14) Colin Kaepernick

Let's see your list for the best qbs of 2014.

[hreed2]

the browns don't even believe in him, bortles is the day 1 starter in jacksonville, cleveland told johnny football to win the job and he's only the #2 QB taken, it's already hoyers job. unless he's going to miraculously become somebody he's not already he's going to struggle in the NFL and teams already know it. if teams believed in him he would have never been on the browns. 6 teams is "ALOT" to pass on you.

If the Browns didn't believe in him then they wouldn't have drafted him in the first round considering the circus that goes along with Manziel on their team. They just want him to earn the starting job so he has his teams respect instead of just handing it to him. Also, it's been widely reported that the plan with Bortles is for him to sit and learn behind Henne, he very well might end up being the day 1 starter but they've made it clear that it's not the plan. Just to clarify, I'm not saying Manziel will become a superstar or anything like that but I'm just saying that his draft status doesn't necessarily mean that scouts are low on him.

6 teams passing on somebody being a lot is debateable though. I wouldn't consider it a lot but by that logic then a lot of teams also passed on Justin Gilbert, Mike Evans, Anthony Barr, Eric Ebron etc. etc. and I don't think that's a fair statement.

[ManInTheMirror]

Let's see your list for the best qbs of 2014.
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers

Andrew Luck
Nick Foles
Cam Newton
Philip Rivers

Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Tony Romo
Matthew Stafford
Ben Roethlisberger
Robert Griffin III
Matt Ryan
Andy Dalton
Joe Flacco

[Skootown]

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers

Andrew Luck
Nick Foles
Cam Newton
Philip Rivers

Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Tony Romo
Matthew Stafford
Ben Roethlisberger
Robert Griffin III
Matt Ryan
Andy Dalton
Joe Flacco

So you have him ranked behind 4 QBs, all of which are future HOFers. Is that not good for a QB entering his 3rd season?

[ManInTheMirror]

So you have him ranked behind 4 QBs, all of which are future HOFers. Is that not good for a QB entering his 3rd season?

Yes, it's very good. But I also have enough faith in other QBs from his generation to not put him on the high pedestal you did with your comment. And my list is as of right now, meaning I believe after this season my list will more than likely change.

[BirdLaw]

From what I've seen, Luck has done everything to back up the hype thus far.

Year 1: First QB to be taken #1 and take their team to the playoffs as a rookie

Year 2: Advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs

All while putting up great stats. I'd say it's hard to argue against the hype at this point.

Career Passer Rating: 81.5
Career Completion Percentage: 57.0
Career YPA: 6.8

You know, "great stats"!

[Skootown]

Career Passer Rating: 81.5
Career Completion Percentage: 57.0
Career YPA: 6.8

You know, "great stats"!

Andrew Luck after 2 years: 8196 yards, 46 TDs, 24 INTs, Rating 81.5

Peyton Manning after 2 years: 7874 yards, 52 TDs, 43 INTs, Rating 80.9

I'd say he's doing pretty well so far.

[BirdLaw]

Andrew Luck after 2 years: 8196 yards, 46 TDs, 24 INTs, Rating 81.5

Peyton Manning after 2 years: 7874 yards, 52 TDs, 43 INTs, Rating 80.9

I'd say he's doing pretty well so far.

LOL, two completely different eras. Plus, Manning's stats are dragged don by his rookie year moreso than Luck's - his sophomore year was much more impressive. Even a random mediocre rookie can put up a rating well into the 70s these days.

In a modern context, Luck's early stats are closer to a Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton or Josh Freeman

Plus there's the matter of Luck leading the league in dropped interceptions as a rookie. That's not taken into account by those numbers.

[pejc300]

Andrew Luck after 2 years: 8196 yards, 46 TDs, 24 INTs, Rating 81.5

Peyton Manning after 2 years: 7874 yards, 52 TDs, 43 INTs, Rating 80.9

I'd say he's doing pretty well so far.

And Russell Wilson after 2 years: 6,475 yards, 52 TD's, 19 INT's, rating 100.2

Things that make you go hmmmm....

[Skootown]

And yet not one GM in the NFL would take Wilson over Luck...

[pejc300]

And yet not one GM in the NFL would take Wilson over Luck...

Correct. And most have zero rings.

[Skootown]

So you're saying you'd rather have Wilson?

[Qwasian]

6 teams passing on somebody being a lot is debateable though. I wouldn't consider it a lot but by that logic then a lot of teams also passed on Justin Gilbert, Mike Evans, Anthony Barr, Eric Ebron etc. etc. and I don't think that's a fair statement.

manziel has tebow 2.0 written all over him, watch...............he's not even as big & powerful as tebow was, he will probably be worse. if the scrambling doesn't translate immediately to the nfl he's done, because that's all his career was about at A&M

[Qwasian]

And Russell Wilson after 2 years: 6,475 yards, 52 TD's, 19 INT's, rating 100.2

Things that make you go hmmmm....

way better team for wilson, and that makes all the difference.......... I think if you put wilson on the colts he might not even be playing right now......

after that comeback last year in the playoffs I don't think you'd convince me that any QB is better than andrew luck...... of course he has some issues to work through but if he ever gets a top level team around him he would crush any QB

I couldn't even imagine luck on the bronco's, he would be destroying the NFL

[pejc300]

So you're saying you'd rather have Wilson?

I believe that at the end of their careers Wilson will have more super bowl wins, and to me that's what it is all about. So yes, I'd rather have Russell Wilson. Just my opinion though, and I know I've re-ignited the age old argument, so I'll leave it be, but people conveniently seem to overlook Russell's numbers, which are better than both Luck and Manning at this point in their careers.

[Qwasian]

I believe that at the end of their careers Wilson will have more super bowl wins, and to me that's what it is all about. So yes, I'd rather have Russell Wilson. Just my opinion though, and I know I've re-ignited the age old argument, so I'll leave it be, but people conveniently seem to overlook Russell's numbers, which are better than both Luck and Manning at this point in their careers.

I seriously doubt the seahawks put it together and go back to the superbowl anytime soon, that team/situation isn't built like that to repeat multiple times.

you are kinda talking about russell wilson being one of the best QB's ever to throw a football if he were to win multiple superbowls......... joe montana has 4 brady has 3. it's not reality to think wilson even has that type of team to do that.

[BirdLaw]

So you're saying you'd rather have Wilson?

I sure would.

Name one "game manager" who put up great efficiency stats at the start of his career and did NOT become an elite quarterback over the long haul. You can't. Because the only ones to do it before the last few years are people like Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger. You can't find an example of a guy who had a hot start to his career because he was coddled, then failed when he had to step into a bigger role.

Russell Wilsons success has spawned the bizarre myth that having a great defense can artificially make a QB's stats look better. Uh, no. Most game manager put up terrible efficiency stats even when they have great defensive play. If this was really the case, I would love to know where all of that great quarterback play went back in our defense's heyday.

[BirdLaw]

I seriously doubt the seahawks put it together and go back to the superbowl anytime soon, that team/situation isn't built like that to repeat multiple times.

you are kinda talking about russell wilson being one of the best QB's ever to throw a football if he were to win multiple superbowls......... joe montana has 4 brady has 3. it's not reality to think wilson even has that type of team to do that.

WTF is this? Of course it's reality, considering the fact that it literally just happened. Those players are still there, you know.

[hreed2]

manziel has tebow 2.0 written all over him, watch...............he's not even as big & powerful as tebow was, he will probably be worse. if the scrambling doesn't translate immediately to the nfl he's done, because that's all his career was about at A&M

This I don't necessarily disagree with. I'd even say Tebow was a better leader too, I hope Manziel proves everybody wrong but I'm not exactly confident.

[pejc300]

I seriously doubt the seahawks put it together and go back to the superbowl anytime soon, that team/situation isn't built like that to repeat multiple times.

you are kinda talking about russell wilson being one of the best QB's ever to throw a football if he were to win multiple superbowls......... joe montana has 4 brady has 3. it's not reality to think wilson even has that type of team to do that.

If you don't think the Seahawks have a shot at repeating this year I don't know what else to say.

[Qwasian]

WTF is this? Of course it's reality, considering the fact that it literally just happened. Those players are still there, you know.

no actually all the same players aren't there..... they lost 7 free agents and 3 veterans. golden tate & brandon browner who are 2 pretty big names are gone as well as a few lineman...... it's going to make a difference, you'll see. they will be just like the ravens were on top then drop. the team isn't setup for dominance over a long period of time, they are quick flippin, that doesn't translate to multiple superbowl rings.

[HBMC]

If you don't think the Seahawks have a shot at repeating this year I don't know what else to say.

Every Super Bowl Winning team has shot out of the gate, making predictions this far in advance with next year's record is a surefire way to get egg on your face.

I didn't exactly see the NFC West get worse in the offseason, nor did the NFC get markedly weaker as a whole. It wouldn't shock me to see Seattle have a winning record and miss the Playoffs.

[Qwasian]

If you don't think the Seahawks have a shot at repeating this year I don't know what else to say.

every team has a "SHOT"........ hot teams "RARELY" put it all together back to back. denver, patriots, etc are setup to repeat and be strong for multiple years, they will be a low seed playoff team most likely in my opinion.

[pejc300]

every team has a "SHOT"........ hot teams "RARELY" put it all together back to back. denver, patriots, etc are setup to repeat and be strong for multiple years, they will be a low seed playoff team most likely in my opinion.

I agree that repeating is very, very rare. However, to not think the Seahawks are the team to beat is a little crazy IMO.

[pejc300]

Every Super Bowl Winning team has shot out of the gate, making predictions this far in advance with next year's record is a surefire way to get egg on your face.

I didn't exactly see the NFC West get worse in the offseason, nor did the NFC get markedly weaker as a whole. It wouldn't shock me to see Seattle have a winning record and miss the Playoffs.

The only way the Seahawks don't make the playoffs is if they change their name to Dallas Cowboys.

Save this post. If the Seahawks do not make the playoffs this year I will gift you $100 paypal.

[BirdLaw]

no actually all the same players aren't there..... they lost 7 free agents and 3 veterans. golden tate & brandon browner who are 2 pretty big names are gone as well as a few lineman...... it's going to make a difference, you'll see. they will be just like the ravens were on top then drop. the team isn't setup for dominance over a long period of time, they are quick flippin, that doesn't translate to multiple superbowl rings.

Golden Tate and Brandon Browner? THAT is going to cause Seattle's downfall? You have got to be kidding me.

Let's have a little history lesson:

2012 Ravens - Lost Ben Grubbs, Cory Redding and Jarret Johnson in preceding offseason
2011 Giants - Lost Kevin Boss, Rich Seubert, Barry Cofield, Keith Bulluck, Jonathan Goff and Terrell Thomas
2010 Packers - Lost Mark Tauscher, Johnny Jolly, Aaron Kampman and Al Harris

Despite losing multiple starters (to either free agency or preseason injury), those teams went on to win the Super Bowl - even though they didn't even start out as champs from the previous year.

You say that "quick flippin" teams don't translate to multiple Super Bowl rings. That would do a very poor job of explaining the Patriots dynasty, whose 2004 team only retained 8 of 22 starters from its 2001 team.

[Qwasian]

Golden Tate and Brandon Browner? THAT is going to cause Seattle's downfall? You have got to be kidding me.

Let's have a little history lesson:

2012 Ravens - Lost Ben Grubbs, Cory Redding and Jarret Johnson in preceding offseason
2011 Giants - Lost Kevin Boss, Rich Seubert, Barry Cofield, Keith Bulluck, Jonathan Goff and Terrell Thomas
2010 Packers - Lost Mark Tauscher, Johnny Jolly, Aaron Kampman and Al Harris

Despite losing multiple starters (to either free agency or preseason injury), those teams went on to win the Super Bowl - even though they didn't even start out as champs from the previous year.

You say that "quick flippin" teams don't translate to multiple Super Bowl rings. That would do a very poor job of explaining the Patriots dynasty, whose 2004 team only retained 8 of 22 starters from its 2001 team.


how many of those teams won back to back? none? okay thanks. :)!



the patriots are not a quick flipping team, they have a plug & play system in place that people step in and do the same job, BIG difference. the seahawks are a "lets try some sh*t" type of team and it worked for them, they got a hot player and molded around what he did, they have been doing this basically 1 year, now all the sudden they are the 49ers of past? lets be real

[davdukes4]

Career Passer Rating: 81.5
Career Completion Percentage: 57.0
Career YPA: 6.8

You know, "great stats"!

His rookie stats weren't mind blowing:

4374 yds - 23 tds - 18 ints - 6.9 avg - 76.5 rat

But these rookie stats weren't great either:
3739 yds - 26 tds - 28 ints - 6.5 avg - 71.2 rat

Those were a different colts rookie quarterbacks numbers....You may have heard of him, Peyton Manning.

But I think you guys are right, he isn't elite and probably wont be elite. Both of those 11-5 seasons were because of the talented team he was on...and his teams success was more fluke than anything. Lets go back to rooting for a bunch of 36-40 year old quarterbacks.

:rolleyes:

Edit: I just noticed someone already beat me to the Manning comparison...

Who ever thinks Tebow was as talented as a quarterback as Manziel never watched JM play. They are the people that read Manziel hate posts and then regurgitate it in the next thread.

Also, Russell Wilson is a very good young quarterback..but saying he is better than Luck is like saying Terry Bradshaw was better than Favre. It just isn't true. Then again, it is very early in their careers, who knows where they will head from here. So we can both have our own opinions, just know that mine is correct :flex:

[pejc300]

His rookie stats weren't mind blowing:

4374 yds - 23 tds - 18 ints - 6.9 avg - 76.5 rat

But these rookie stats weren't great either:
3739 yds - 26 tds - 28 ints - 6.5 avg - 71.2 rat

Those were a different colts rookie quarterbacks numbers....You may have heard of him, Peyton Manning.

But I think you guys are right, he isn't elite and probably wont be elite. Both of those 11-5 seasons were because of the talented team he was on...and his teams success was more fluke than anything. Lets go back to rooting for a bunch of 36-40 year old quarterbacks.

:rolleyes:

Congratulations, now please read the previous 100 posts where his stats were mentioned and discussed already....

[davdukes4]

Congratulations, now please read the previous 100 posts where his stats were mentioned and discussed already....

Ya, I didn't notice until too late...I edited it in before seeing your post ;)

[ManInTheMirror]

His rookie stats weren't mind blowing:

4374 yds - 23 tds - 18 ints - 6.9 avg - 76.5 rat

But these rookie stats weren't great either:
3739 yds - 26 tds - 28 ints - 6.5 avg - 71.2 rat

Those were a different colts rookie quarterbacks numbers....You may have heard of him, Peyton Manning.

But I think you guys are right, he isn't elite and probably wont be elite. Both of those 11-5 seasons were because of the talented team he was on...and his teams success was more fluke than anything. Lets go back to rooting for a bunch of 36-40 year old quarterbacks.

:rolleyes:
Okay, you make a good point. Manning did not put up great stats as a rookie/sophomore and turned out great so your are implying Luck will go the same route.

What say you about these young quarterbacks from the same generation who are putting up better stats than Luck right now?

[BirdLaw]

how many of those teams won back to back? none? okay thanks. :)!
Not the point. At all.

the patriots are not a quick flipping team, they have a plug & play system in place that people step in and do the same job, BIG difference.
It sounds like the kind of system that would have a group of one players one year, then have a much different group of players a few years later. It's like they're taking all of these players, then replacing them them for other ones over a short period of time. I wonder if there's a phrase for that.

the seahawks are a "lets try some sh*t" type of team and it worked for them, they got a hot player and molded around what he did

Please explain what on earth you are talking about here. What does "lets try some sh*t" even mean?

[davdukes4]

Okay, you make a good point. Manning did not put up great stats as a rookie/sophomore and turned out great so your are implying Luck will go the same route.

What say you about these young quarterbacks from the same generation who are putting up better stats than Luck right now?

They are going to make up a good portion of the top ten qbs of the future.

Luck
Foles
RGIII (if he can stay healthy)
Wilson
Kaep if he can develop as a passer

But I'm sure you already know the argument as to why they are putting up better numbers.

Foles = Shady McCoy, Desean Jackson while playing in a high volume system under Chip Kelley.
Wilson = Best team in the league, arguably the best coach in the league. Much easier to be efficient and win championships when you have a great run game and a great defense.
Kaep = See above. Great team, great coach, Gore, Boldin, Crabtree, Vernon Davis, ect.

Luck was playing with a bad offensive coordinator and little to no help on offense. TY was the only option and he didn't even get in the starting line up until later in the season....and he wont even be starting in 2014.

Edit: I'm really hoping in 3-4 years a few of these guys will take the next step and be the next wave of top 5 'elite' qbs. It's my opinion that Luck will be at the top of the list...but hopefully Luck-Foles-Wilson-RGIII will be a Manning-Brady-Brees-Rodgers type of argument. (Feel free to substitute other young qbs, these were just examples).

[MeteoriteGuy]

Somewhere, Akili Smith is laughing.

[davdukes4]

Somewhere, Akili Smith is laughing.

Laughing at the Bengals for drafting him 3rd overall and paying him $56,000,000 including a $10,000,000 signing bonus?

Or because he realized the only way people will listen to him is if he talks about Manziel?

[BirdLaw]

They are going to make up a good portion of the top ten qbs of the future.

Luck
Foles
RGIII (if he can stay healthy)
Wilson
Kaep if he can develop as a passer

But I'm sure you already know the argument as to why they are putting up better numbers.

Foles = Shady McCoy, Desean Jackson while playing in a high volume system under Chip Kelley.
Wilson = Best team in the league, arguably the best coach in the league. Much easier to be efficient and win championships when you have a great run game and a great defense.
Kaep = See above. Great team, great coach, Gore, Boldin, Crabtree, Vernon Davis, ect.

Luck was playing with a bad offensive coordinator and little to no help on offense. TY was the only option and he didn't even get in the starting line up until later in the season....and he wont even be starting in 2014.

Edit: I'm really hoping in 3-4 years a few of these guys will take the next step and be the next wave of top 5 'elite' qbs. It's my opinion that Luck will be at the top of the list...but hopefully Luck-Foles-Wilson-RGIII will be a Manning-Brady-Brees-Rodgers type of argument. (Feel free to substitute other young qbs, these were just examples).

Why is a weaker supporting cast always used as a get out of jail free card? You realize it doesn't automatically make up for significantly worse stats, right?

And is there any actual proof that a better running game and a better defense have any kind of significant impact a QB's efficiency? Aren't the elite QBs today usually notorious for having poor running games? You'd think that wouldn't be the case if it was such a big deal.