When do you consider a card to be Short Printed

[Gurds]

Regarding cards that are serial numbered.....

Anthing 500 and below, 250? 99??

Just curious as to what everyone has to say.

[roro17]

/25.......

[Pine Tar]

/25.......

1/1 everything else is over printed :)!

[brewcrew8]

....ask eBay

[Gurds]

....ask eBay

exactly why i'm asking. i see way too many cards listed as SP when they have "high" serial numbers.

I mean I get it from a sellers perspective that say a card /500 could be SP because in the grand scheme of things 500 of that card really isn't a lot since quite a bit of product is produced....

[death2redemptions]

If you are talking about short prints in a set like A&G, Gypsy Queen, Heritage, etc. any card that has a lower print run in relation to the rest of the base set, then it is considered a short print (SP) therefor have tougher odds to complete. They don't have to be serial numbered to be a short print, in fact, they usually aren't serial numbered. An SSP is a card that has an even lower print run than the short print cards.

Parallel cards are not short prints, despite what they are serial #d to.

[XL5]

I generally don't consider cards with serial numbers to be short printed. They print exactly the number they say. What's "short" about that?


SPs are cards without serial numbers that are printed at a rate lower than other similar cards from the same set/subset.

Heritage High Number SPs
Ginter NNO Mini SPs

etc.

[marl1220]

/500...................

[Bhenry4]

It all depends. For instance, the Topps SSP cards are probably produced at a print run of ~100. However, you have to crack a case to hopefully find one.

If you open a box of Five Star, you automatically get a card #ed to /75 and likely one numbered /25 or less. Of course, that box costs you $350.

I think that in order for something to be SP, it should be 1:500 or more. Of course, when I'm listing on eBay, I list the regular Topps SPs as SP, because that's what they're called.

[marl1220]

I generally don't consider cards with serial numbers to be short printed. They print exactly the number they say. What's "short" about that?


SPs are cards without serial numbers that are printed at a rate lower than other similar cards from the same set/subset.

Heritage High Number SPs
Ginter NNO Mini SPs

etc.


Ahhhh. I get it. Kinda like the gold, sapphire, ruby platinum.

[death2redemptions]

I generally don't consider cards with serial numbers to be short printed.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

Generally short prints are not serial numbered, in fact they rarely ever are.

[death2redemptions]

Ahhhh. I get it. Kinda like the gold, sapphire, ruby platinum.

No, those are parallels, not short prints.

[Tzvih123]

I don't consider ser #/d to be SP. When I use the term SP, I'm referring to Variations, High #s, etc.

[marl1220]

No, those are parallels, not short prints.

OK, So it would be like the 2000-2002 fleer tradition where they had cards that where base cards in the set just printed less than the other base cards?

[death2redemptions]

I don't consider ser #/d to be SP. When I use the term SP, I'm referring to Variations, High #s, etc.

Exactly. One of the best sets to use the short print example is Topps Heritage. The high number cards are short prints because there is a lower production run of cards #426-500. Usually in a case your are able to put together 4 base sets but only one of them is a master set that includes #426-500 which means the high number cards have a production run about 25% the size of the base cards.

Then they will have SSP cards which are like error cards or variation cards and these cards have a much lower print run than the high number short print cards. They aren't serial numbered but based on the odds from packs you can conclude that only 10-25 are made of each card.

Then you have the autograph cards, most have the same odds of pulling (about 3-4 per case) but some will only have 50 or less produced and therefor much tougher to pull but they aren't serial numbered. Usually it is the top players who are SP.

[death2redemptions]

OK, So it would be like the 2000-2002 fleer tradition where they had cards that where base cards in the set just printed less than the other base cards?

I don't remember the Fleer Tradition cards but I provided an example in my last post about Topps Heritage which explains it.

[Chicosbailbonds]

There is nothing more frustrating as a set collector like buying a box of cards and finding out the last 200 are SP's and you pulled 2. Panini sets are famous for this.

[calculusdork]

d2r has nailed the definition of "short print". Numbered parallels are, in my opinion, something entirely different than "short prints".

[babybull]

Exactly. One of the best sets to use the short print example is Topps Heritage. The high number cards are short prints because there is a lower production run of cards #426-500. Usually in a case your are able to put together 4 base sets but only one of them is a master set that includes #426-500 which means the high number cards have a production run about 25% the size of the base cards.

Then they will have SSP cards which are like error cards or variation cards and these cards have a much lower print run than the high number short print cards. They aren't serial numbered but based on the odds from packs you can conclude that only 10-25 are made of each card.

Then you have the autograph cards, most have the same odds of pulling (about 3-4 per case) but some will only have 50 or less produced and therefor much tougher to pull but they aren't serial numbered. Usually it is the top players who are SP.


If this is the base line, then every insert is considered a short print. Personally, I consider any card that doesn't have the base card run to be a short print.

[bradical]

I think we are getting the terms print run and short printed confused.

In order for something to be short printed, we need a baseline, or however many of each other card was produced in the set, and it needs to be lower than that.

If each card in the set has print run of 25, like an Orange Refractor as an example, then none of those are short printed, because each card has the same amount out there.

[camoutwest]

I think short printed is a generalized term. If the same or similar type of card from the same set or series, has a different amount cards issued, the card that is less produced is a SP.

[XL5]

If this is the base line, then every insert is considered a short print. Personally, I consider any card that doesn't have the base card run to be a short print.

Inserts are inserts. That's why they call them inserts and not SP base.

[Johnson]

according to bigboydsportscards every card is an SP

[Chicosbailbonds]

If this is the base line, then every insert is considered a short print. Personally, I consider any card that doesn't have the base card run to be a short print.

No because an insert set is different than the base set. If the base set is 300 cards and 100 are produced in smaller numbers to drive sales, they are SP's.

[death2redemptions]

If this is the base line, then every insert is considered a short print. Personally, I consider any card that doesn't have the base card run to be a short print.

No, those are just called insert cards, they have no correlation with the base set.

[base set]

as of about 2 minutes ago, there were 76,545 "Topps SP" cards for sale on eBay

[NickM]

This ^^^^^^^^^^

Generally short prints are not serial numbered, in fact they rarely ever are.

If the rookies (or retired players) are serial numbered but the rest of the set isn't, the rookies (or retired players) are generally considered SPs. Not too many years ago, this was the standard practice for most higher-end sets.

There are also some sets where every card is serial numbered and they aren't all produced to the same number - think UD Finite. The cards produced to lower numbers are SPs too.

[death2redemptions]

If the rookies (or retired players) are serial numbered but the rest of the set isn't, the rookies (or retired players) are generally considered SPs. Not too many years ago, this was the standard practice for most higher-end sets.

There are also some sets where every card is serial numbered and they aren't all produced to the same number - think UD Finite. The cards produced to lower numbers are SPs too.

This is true, Upper Deck used to do it with SP Authentic and that is why I said short prints are rarely ever serial #d. They have been in the past, mostly with Upper Deck but now that Topps is the sole owner of baseball it is pretty much never done anymore.

[sportscardmania]

This is a short print (SP) or maybe SSP ...

[NickM]

This is true, Upper Deck used to do it with SP Authentic and that is why I said short prints are rarely ever serial #d. They have been in the past, mostly with Upper Deck but now that Topps is the sole owner of baseball it is pretty much never done anymore.

Panini still does it regularly in other sports. I wouldn't be surprised if they bring it to a mid-end baseball release or two this year.

[dasiegel]

i agree /25 or less or i dont even care. in basketball the topps chrome gold /50s were an exception to me.

[mainerunr]

I generally don't consider cards with serial numbers to be short printed. They print exactly the number they say. What's "short" about that?


SPs are cards without serial numbers that are printed at a rate lower than other similar cards from the same set/subset.

Heritage High Number SPs
Ginter NNO Mini SPs

etc.
I dont consider the NNO minis to be SP's because in theory they all have the same print run...they are just a parallel.

Ginter high numbers are SP in theory...(but not the high number minis.)

[NeilCO]

I dont consider the NNO minis to be SP's because in theory they all have the same print run...they are just a parallel.



Ginter high numbers are SP in theory...(but not the high number minis.)


Why not the high number minis? I believe 301-350 minis have shorter print runs relative to the rest of the minis.

[NeilCO]

I think we are getting the terms print run and short printed confused.

In order for something to be short printed, we need a baseline, or however many of each other card was produced in the set, and it needs to be lower than that.

If each card in the set has print run of 25, like an Orange Refractor as an example, then none of those are short printed, because each card has the same amount out there.


I believe bradical nailed it here. With that said, given that there is room for debate I still feel comfortable calling some parallels"SP" on eBay.

[mainerunr]

Why not the high number minis? I believe 301-350 minis have shorter print runs relative to the rest of the minis.

Based on what many of the case breakers have reported, they end up with more 301-350 mini sets than they do 1-300 sets suggesting that they are in fact not SP's (someone ran some calcs on the wrapper odds and determined that the print run of the high numbers was actually higher than that of the 1-300 minis.)

[NeilCO]

Based on what many of the case breakers have reported, they end up with more 301-350 mini sets than they do 1-300 sets suggesting that they are in fact not SP's (someone ran some calcs on the wrapper odds and determined that the print run of the high numbers was actually higher than that of the 1-300 minis.)


I always wondered how close the SPs sometimes come, given that there are typically fewer cards in the SP set than the rest. That's crazy!

[XL5]

I dont consider the NNO minis to be SP's because in theory they all have the same print run...they are just a parallel.


Good point, although I'd consider them SP variations (of the A&G parallels). They are identical to A&G backs except for the missing number.

[death2redemptions]

I dont consider the NNO minis to be SP's because in theory they all have the same print run...they are just a parallel.

Ginter high numbers are SP in theory...(but not the high number minis.)

Yeah, the NNO minis aren't SP (low number or high number) because they all have the same print run.

We are also in agreement with the mini SP high numbers, they aren't short printed. They are mini variations of the base short prints but in correlation with the rest of the mini parallels, they are not any tougher to complete than the regular mini parallel set.

[NickM]

I always wondered how close the SPs sometimes come, given that there are typically fewer cards in the SP set than the rest. That's crazy!

I've seen it as close as 6 non-SP cards for every 5 SP cards. This was on a Playoff release around 15 years ago IIRC.