Panini doesnt know who gets what cases right?

[tristan20]

How does Houdini bust 10 cases and pull 7 Alex Len RPA Redemptions?

Looks like Panini is making dud cases for the massive group breaks, since they are pretty much guaranteed to be sold so they can fill them with garbage.

[paul06901]

Yeah and in 30/40 cases only ONE logoman?

Yet people in the Box Breaks section are posting personal breaks of 1-5 cases and hitting at least one, if not multiple logomen...

I was in Houdini's #3 with the SEVEN Alex Len RPA Redemptions.

And this is just ridiculous ... AND fishy...


And I agree exactly with your sentiments. They know these cases are going to group breaks and people can't/won't really complain ... so why not pack them with all of the garbage since they're being sold anyways?!...

[Dwade Collector]

What are the odds of that happening? That seems unreal, I watched the whole thing as well

[xavieronly1]

I thought that 3 MCWs in that 10 cases break were pretty unreal already.. LOL This is another level.

[afrobandit]

Bateson also pulled like 8 of the Michael Finley triple patches /25 and another 5+ of some RPA redemption.

[mmbtvs]

Panini has no idea they are going to group breaks. All they know is that those cases were purchased by Blowout cards.

[Dwade Collector]

Panini has no idea they are going to group breaks. All they know is that those cases were purchased by Blowout cards.

It makes me feel like this is the first "batch"
I haven't seen any Oladipo rookies in the 30 cases yet, seen about 6 MCW and maybe 7 Noel rookies

[yaoming]

Tristan, if Panini do that then BO or Houdini will get bad rep, and people stop purchasing GB, then they will buy less from Panini etc etc

[xavieronly1]

This leads me to think this year NT has some production failure. Instead of having 1000 different cards available to pack, they just have 300 available in the first package order. And you are stuck with that 300 different cards. And the next package order, Panini is putting the rest into one group.

[paul06901]

Nordy's 5-case Blowout break just ended with ZERO logomen patches, but had TWO Tyson Chandler Patches #/25 and TWO Alex Len RPA Redemptions... A pretty AWFUL 5-cases ...


...

[AlabamaSlamma]

Great job using the extra few weeks delay to improve quality control prior to distribution.

[xavieronly1]

Great job using the extra few weeks delay to improve quality control prior to distribution.

There is only so much you can do with those $5 GU... LOL

[SPauthentic84]

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"

I wish I was more creative to think of an example to those who bust over and over again

[XARZY]

I saw Nordy's 2 5 casers back to back and he pulled atleast 3 alex len redemptions in 10 cases. No logomen. 1 tag auto redemption, 1 dual tag 1/1. No mcw, 1 noel sneaker auto, 1 bennet rpa and 1 kyrie patch auto. And atleast 3 magic auto, 3 kareem auto and I believe 3 birds.

Tony Parker and JOhn stockton are over produced. saw like 4-5 stocktons and 3-4 parkers.

[xavieronly1]

I saw Nordy's 2 5 casers back to back and he pulled atleast 3 alex len redemptions in 10 cases. No logomen. 1 tag auto redemption, 1 dual tag 1/1. No mcw, 1 noel sneaker auto, 1 bennet rpa and 1 kyrie patch auto. And atleast 3 magic auto, 3 kareem auto and I believe 3 birds.

Tony Parker and JOhn stockton are over produced. saw like 4-5 stocktons and 3-4 parkers.

Wasn't one of the 10 cases break that had 4 andrea bargnani autos? LOL That is a major filter hit.

I think if I have time this weekend, I may check all the big case break and see how many people actually come up with "profit" in each big break. From my eyeballing, it looks like 2 or 3 people will come up positive. The rest 27 of them are "losing" money with many of them got $0 in return.

[blackmarkers]

i do feel like there are different waves of cases having different cards available

i started checking ebay on the 19th and have seen maybe 98% of cards that have been posted since then.. i'm seeing a lot of the same cards and none of others

you see a lot of listings where the same seller has card 4/25 and 5/25

just seems like very bad collation.. there should absolutely be no duplicates in a case

[snomelcrob]

The 4 cases I've watched from Cardsmiths have been absolute duds.

[Dwade Collector]

There are a ton of duplicates getting pulled in back to back boxes, also multiples of the same player. 30 cases without an Oladipo rookie, had about 13/14 mcw and noel combined

The odds don't stack up logically

[jj2]

So you think Panini knows what is going to each case break and purposely rigs those cases with seven Alex Len autographs so as not to raise suspicion?

I guess the distributors must all be in on this little scheme as well?

You could certainly argue it's bad collation, or just bad luck, but rigged? Really?

[IronMonkey415]

NO NO!!! I WILL NOT LISTEN. My dream of pulling any logoman from the Thunders is still alive.

[ejs23]

of course they do... better move to China if you want to pull a logoman

[Pennyoka]

I think the explanation is pretty simple:

This product was delayed, they have been rushing to get it out before Immaculate/Flawless, and they obviously did a terrible job at collating boxes/cases probably due to the time crunch.

The theory that they would purposely send BAD cases to the most highly visible breaks makes zero sense.

[XARZY]

So after watching another 15 cases get busted today and NO LOGOMAN get pulled. the odds of Logoman to case being 10:1 (10 cases to 1 Logoman) are completely false regardless of the real production numbers. I am highly considering not joining any more breaks due to this. Why is it that so many people can bust single cases or a handful of cases and land 2-3 logomen? this is ridiculous.

[paul06901]

So after watching another 15 cases get busted today and NO LOGOMAN get pulled. the odds of Logoman to case being 10:1 (10 cases to 1 Logoman) are completely false regardless of the real production numbers. I am highly considering not joining any more breaks due to this. Why is it that so many people can bust single cases or a handful of cases and land 2-3 logomen? this is ridiculous.

Between Houdini's 10 and Nordy's 5 today, that's over $22,000 worth of product. For $22,000 ... those results were HORRIFIC.

I mean, just REALLY BAD!


Luck of the draw? Or is there more to this story....?....

[XARZY]

I think the explanation is pretty simple:

This product was delayed, they have been rushing to get it out before Immaculate/Flawless, and they obviously did a terrible job at collating boxes/cases probably due to the time crunch.

The theory that they would purposely send BAD cases to the most highly visible breaks makes zero sense.

This is not true. The fact that BO orders hundreds of cases for GBS makes it easy to push out duds. knowing that people buy in blindly into a 10 case or 20 case break leads to horrible garbage getting dumped. why do you think there are so many similar hits/duplicates?

Where are all the Oladipo RPA? Bennets? Kyrie Autos? theres alot of cards that just arent surfacing quick enough considering the amount of product thats getting busted. really only 1 logoman in nearly 50 gb cases?

[XARZY]

Between Houdini's 10 and Nordy's 10 today, that's over $22,000 worth of product. For $22,000 ... those results were HORRIFIC.

I mean, just REALLY BAD!


Luck of the draw? Or is there more to this story....?....

the other 5 cases (random team break) were just as rough

[XARZY]

So you think Panini knows what is going to each case break and purposely rigs those cases with seven Alex Len autographs so as not to raise suspicion?

I guess the distributors must all be in on this little scheme as well?

You could certainly argue it's bad collation, or just bad luck, but rigged? Really?

Stop acting naive. THEY HAND COLLATE PRODUCT! its not incredibly hard to put all the big hit cases into one pile, all the duds into another huge pile then when loading the shipments to BO, sprinkle in a couple of cases from the hits pile.

Its not like the cases are packaged by machine, its all done by hand!

[thepinoymamba]

At least we all know that because its from b.o. then it must be a hit case.
I think this way its really spread out and its randomly selected not hand picked.
I love it this way

[XARZY]

At least we all know that because its from b.o. then it must be a hit case.
I think this way its really spread out and its randomly selected not hand picked.
I love it this way

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3868727-confused+yo.gif

[Srt42004n]

Well I live NT Hockey has been delayed to finish "hand packing"

[Srt42004n]

the other 5 cases (random team break) were just as rough

Some where there is a really loaded case and i am guessing that case will be broken in ehh 2-3 weeks when people slow down buying... Or right around black fraud-day.

[realreodeal]

I cant get burned by Panini because I stopped buying their garbage after year 1.

[tristan20]

I cant get burned by Panini because I stopped buying their garbage after year 1.

Dammit, wish I had that sort of self control. Busting is addictive :(

[ronaldo943]

Stop acting naive. THEY HAND COLLATE PRODUCT! its not incredibly hard to put all the big hit cases into one pile, all the duds into another huge pile then when loading the shipments to BO, sprinkle in a couple of cases from the hits pile.

Its not like the cases are packaged by machine, its all done by hand!

Yes and these guys all know about basketball and what the people want. :)! People were going to buy the product no matter what. To say they sent the duds to BO because BO does group breaks is idiotic.

[dhendrix1303]

Errrmaguurddd .. Conspiracy!!!

[benz35]

where are the KOBE autos??????

[tristan20]

where are the KOBE autos??????

Busted 3 cases pulled 2 of the same kobes, one gold one regular version

[xavieronly1]

Watching 10 case break is so much fun when you don't need to pay $500 while I am at the same boat with the person ending up with 0 hit after the break. Looks like most group break ends up with one true winner with 29 losers.

[XARZY]

Yes and these guys all know about basketball and what the people want. :)! People were going to buy the product no matter what. To say they sent the duds to BO because BO does group breaks is idiotic.

1) you must not be in any breaks
2) you must not have watched the BO Gbs to understand.

[dasiegel]

This is not true. The fact that BO orders hundreds of cases for GBS makes it easy to push out duds. knowing that people buy in blindly into a 10 case or 20 case break leads to horrible garbage getting dumped. why do you think there are so many similar hits/duplicates?

Where are all the Oladipo RPA? Bennets? Kyrie Autos? theres alot of cards that just arent surfacing quick enough considering the amount of product thats getting busted. really only 1 logoman in nearly 50 gb cases?

7 Lens is ridiculous but I have to add that stuff is always regionally shipped, meaning my "guys" get their stuff from distributors in Chitown, there seem to be many of the same players in those boxes. I've seen that with breaks on here where the breaker says, damn how many (insert player) are we going to get.

With that sad I think thats probably bc they just grab from a similar section of the room and many of the same cards were (collated) packed in that area. I dobt once the boxes are packed sealed, etc that they would PURPOSELY give BO or DA or any big guys crappy boxes. Some great stuff has been pulled historically on BO, guess this year has been a bust.

where are the KOBE autos??????

i saw plenty actually

1) you must not be in any breaks
2) you must not have watched the BO Gbs to understand.

i didn't so it must be bad, but still to think they have an agenda against BO is a stretch. I can imagine them putting cases in a pile to send to a certain region (say Asia), but generally I think within the US its just random with bad collation.

[SteveO21]

Buy let's act like this is a new phenomenon... riiiight. If you're buying cases of this crap or jumping in group breaks at the current prices, you don't care too much about your investment.

[Kelper7]

This is not true. The fact that BO orders hundreds of cases for GBS makes it easy to push out duds. knowing that people buy in blindly into a 10 case or 20 case break leads to horrible garbage getting dumped. why do you think there are so many similar hits/duplicates?

Where are all the Oladipo RPA? Bennets? Kyrie Autos? theres alot of cards that just arent surfacing quick enough considering the amount of product thats getting busted. really only 1 logoman in nearly 50 gb cases?

I bought Orlando in one case break and hit an Oladipo RPA and an Oladipo jersey auto of the Kobe's All-Rookie Selections. So two of the three boxes had Oladipo autos. I'm also pretty certain that the LCS that I visit in Indy pulled a few of the Bennett RPAs that are up on eBay. To a degree it does seem like player hits are popping up in batches, be it regional or just the grouping of cases.

[XARZY]

I bought Orlando in one case break and hit an Oladipo RPA and an Oladipo jersey auto of the Kobe's All-Rookie Selections. So two of the three boxes had Oladipo autos. I'm also pretty certain that the LCS that I visit in Indy pulled a few of the Bennett RPAs that are up on eBay. To a degree it does seem like player hits are popping up in batches, be it regional or just the grouping of cases.

the collation is horrid, must find the 'region' that has the better batches!

also notice how ridiculous some of the boxes were collated. Stick a vince carter triple gu, then in the same box the same card but the patch version. Someone in the box break section pulled two Ewing 2clr trim /25 back to back (same cards) in 1 box.
In the nordy team draft 5 caser, he pulled two jsy numbered cards back to back..

[thepinoymamba]

Thanks for making a Cry thread Tristan.

[xavieronly1]

Thanks for making a Cry thread Tristan.

You serious?

[jj2]

Stop acting naive. THEY HAND COLLATE PRODUCT! its not incredibly hard to put all the big hit cases into one pile, all the duds into another huge pile then when loading the shipments to BO, sprinkle in a couple of cases from the hits pile.

Its not like the cases are packaged by machine, its all done by hand!

Except Panini don't ship straight to BO etc so the distributors would need to be in on this scheme as well.

[armyatc22]

Same stuff every year

If you don't hit a logoman or one of the 5 or so big names your going to get burned

Everyone is worries about them so much and doesn't realize how much the so called "duds" get paid for their autos and stuff....just because those players don't bring a premium in the secondary market doesnt mean that panini isn't paying the premium to get their autos....

[snsdmonkey]

You serious?

Well-known Panini fanboy so yes he is serious.

[XARZY]

Same stuff every year

If you don't hit a logoman or one of the 5 or so big names your going to get burned

Everyone is worries about them so much and doesn't realize how much the so called "duds" get paid for their autos and stuff....just because those players don't bring a premium in the secondary market doesnt mean that panini isn't paying the premium to get their autos....
The issues at hand is the collation. We should be seeing a Logoman in every 10 cases. Less dupes!

[Pennyoka]

This is not true. The fact that BO orders hundreds of cases for GBS makes it easy to push out duds. knowing that people buy in blindly into a 10 case or 20 case break leads to horrible garbage getting dumped. why do you think there are so many similar hits/duplicates?

Where are all the Oladipo RPA? Bennets? Kyrie Autos? theres alot of cards that just arent surfacing quick enough considering the amount of product thats getting busted. really only 1 logoman in nearly 50 gb cases?

So you think they purposely send bad boxes to the most visible group breaks that everyone watches? How would this benefit the company at all? I would think if think if Panini could control where all their product went, they would send loaded cases to these very public breaks, not the other way around. Why would you want to make your product look like a terrible investment? I really think it's just horrible collation due to lack of time to pack the product, but that's just my opinion.

[thepinoymamba]

If B.O gets so many logo man, members would be like. Wow. Look conspiracy, why do blow out get all the good stuff.
It will always be non satisfaction what so ever.
I just think the way they packed it and boxed them its really random. I love that, like my LCS maybe could have 4 cases left and have 4 logoman on it.
I think we are kinda used to have UD, guaranteeing a Jordan auto per case of exquisite.
That way if Chris opened 2 of three of exquisite and no mj came out, then its a ramble to buy the last box. It does take away the fun of it, or the other way, when Chris opened a Jordan Auto, then the last two box would have 99% of non Jordan auto on it.

Back to it, random box probability is a good thing.
It all comes down to luck!!!!

So I'm wishing everyone good luck on busting box, case or the group breaks.
:)

[tristan20]

If B.O gets so many logo man, members would be like. Wow. Look conspiracy, why do blow out get all the good stuff.
It will always be non satisfaction what so ever.
I just think the way they packed it and boxed them its really random. I love that, like my LCS maybe could have 4 cases left and have 4 logoman on it.
I think we are kinda used to have UD, guaranteeing a Jordan auto per case of exquisite.
That way if Chris opened 2 of three of exquisite and no mj came out, then its a ramble to buy the last box. It does take away the fun of it, or the other way, when Chris opened a Jordan Auto, then the last two box would have 99% of non Jordan auto on it.

Back to it, random box probability is a good thing.
It all comes down to luck!!!!

So I'm wishing everyone good luck on busting box, case or the group breaks.
:)

LOL

UD Never guarenteed a Jordan per case when they made NBA cards.

Panini is so bad with collating, if you were around during the UD days, when you got a bad case it was suspicious and people would think it was resealed.

These days when you get a bad case you know you are not alone because its so many.

Since its random as you say, how do you explain a 10 case break having 7 Alex Len RPAs (SAME CARD). Not 2 or 3 or 4, SEVEN!

Take off the blindfold man, and stop posting nonsense

[XARZY]

LOL

UD Never guarenteed a Jordan per case when they made NBA cards.

Panini is so bad with collating, if you were around during the UD days, when you got a bad case it was suspicious and people would think it was resealed.

These days when you get a bad case you know you are not alone because its so many.

Since its random as you say, how do you explain a 10 case break having 7 Alex Len RPAs (SAME CARD). Not 2 or 3 or 4, SEVEN!

Take off the blindfold man, and stop posting nonsense
Only way you got a guaranteed mj was master collection

Is he even participating in any nt breaks? I believe you shouldn't be able to defend Panini in conversations like this unless you s part taking ìn the gbs

[jbrandonw]

LOL

UD Never guarenteed a Jordan per case when they made NBA cards.

Panini is so bad with collating, if you were around during the UD days, when you got a bad case it was suspicious and people would think it was resealed.

These days when you get a bad case you know you are not alone because its so many.

Since its random as you say, how do you explain a 10 case break having 7 Alex Len RPAs (SAME CARD). Not 2 or 3 or 4, SEVEN!

Take off the blindfold man, and stop posting nonsense


LOL, Actually they did. Hard to tell someone not to post nonsence when your doing it yourself.

[crazymj]

I watched some of the houdini first 10 cases and i thought they were pretty good. A lot of MCW who was ROY, also i think a lot of nice tag/tag auto like grant hill triple tag, malone auto tag etc, i feel like those HOF tags would sell for more than just random logoman #/5 of players like Jrue holiday,greg monroe etc.

[tristan20]

LOL, Actually they did. Hard to tell someone not to post nonsence when your doing it yourself.

When did UD guarantee a Jordan auto in an NBA product?

Obviously special sets would not count like MJ Master Collection.

[Pennyoka]

2012-13 UD All Time Greats had a Jordan auto in every 6 box case.

[tristan20]

2012 UD All Time Greats had a Jordan auto in every 6 box case.

Ok, is that an UD NBA product?

[Pennyoka]

Sorry didn't realize you were referring to NBA only.

[rookies]

No real UD products real being 2003-09 guaranteed any Jordan? Only thing I can think of is 07-08 ud black they had a tier 1 auto guarantee which was 1 of like 10 players per case being either Jordan, lebron, magic, bird, kareem, dwight, and a few others.

[ckeer]

Hmmm. How about those personal breaks posted in this forum? Their cases got to come from somewhere and perhaps majority would have been purchased from BO direct? Their break results seemed to be much better or breakers only post big hits?

On the other hand, Panini has been making a killing out of this year's NT. Has anyone seen any Rookie Logoman yet apart from the Jeff Whitey on EBAY? These should possibly be held back for the 2nd wave where case prices would have been driven up by the lack of supply. Hand collation is as good as favouritism. The usual suspects always hit big on high end products.

[crazymj]

No real UD products real being 2003-09 guaranteed any Jordan? Only thing I can think of is 07-08 ud black they had a tier 1 auto guarantee which was 1 of like 10 players per case being either Jordan, lebron, magic, bird, kareem, dwight, and a few others.

National treasures i believe yields a tier 1 auto too each case too. KD, kobe, Kyrie, Magic, Bird, anyone else confirm?

[crazymj]

Hmmm. How about those personal breaks posted in this forum? Their cases got to come from somewhere and perhaps majority would have been purchased from BO direct? Their break results seemed to be much better or breakers only post big hits?

On the other hand, Panini has been making a killing out of this year's NT. Has anyone seen any Rookie Logoman yet apart from the Jeff Whitey on EBAY? These should possibly be held back for the 2nd wave where case prices would have been driven up by the lack of supply. Hand collation is as good as favouritism. The usual suspects always hit big on high end products.

Ben Mclemore pulled, he's top 10 at least.

[thekiddfan]

Nope
No tier one of my 2 cases
Prob the worst 2 cases

[xbignick]

I've seen a case with two logoman cards. It's the company and product, not blowout and breakers.

[patchgenie]

Hmmm. How about those personal breaks posted in this forum? Their cases got to come from somewhere and perhaps majority would have been purchased from BO direct? Their break results seemed to be much better or breakers only post big hits?

On the other hand, Panini has been making a killing out of this year's NT. Has anyone seen any Rookie Logoman yet apart from the Jeff Whitey on EBAY? These should possibly be held back for the 2nd wave where case prices would have been driven up by the lack of supply. Hand collation is as good as favouritism. The usual suspects always hit big on high end products.

i think i saw solomon hill from the pacers pulled.

[Amerigo Vespucc]

Ya they do, they always send the best #@#@#@#@ to China.
Just look at the logoman ratio.

[Rabie1]

Ok let me get this straight..

Panini somehow knows cases are going to big breakers - the videos everyone is going to watch (that is what i do before i buy boxes or a case) and instead of loading up to get everyone else excited - they INTENTIONALLY put crap in them?

On what planet does this work exactly?

I bet this same thread would have been made if that 10 case break had 15 logomans and a ton of hits. "Panini added hits to big breaks so they can sell their stuff"

And that crap about Asia getting the better cases is so sad. You guys break 1-2 cases and want to try about the hits and your credit card bills - have you seen how many cases they open at launch of big products in HK and China? I can finish a whole patch set if i buy only from Asian sellers - they break a ton.

"Panini loads National cases"
"Panini loads Asian cases"
"Panini want to screw BO and big breakers on purpose"

What do you guys have for breakfast exactly? i want to have some of that on Monday mornings.

[SPauthentic84]

I just cant believe prices people are paying for rookies that are at best role players in 3 years.

[IronMonkey415]

Gosh darn it, the Durant is pulled already?

[crackberry]

LOL

UD Never guarenteed a Jordan per case when they made NBA cards.

Panini is so bad with collating, if you were around during the UD days, when you got a bad case it was suspicious and people would think it was resealed.

These days when you get a bad case you know you are not alone because its so many.

Since its random as you say, how do you explain a 10 case break having 7 Alex Len RPAs (SAME CARD). Not 2 or 3 or 4, SEVEN!

Take off the blindfold man, and stop posting nonsense

and Giannis getting pulled in almost ever case in TW :eek: even the 34/99!!! tags are disappointing pulls for these guys :(

[Rabie1]

I just cant believe prices people are paying for rookies that are at best role players in 3 years.

Yeah it is crazy. I thought people were over paying last year but at least u had quality last year.. i wanted to pick up a Noel RPA but i swear i looked at the prices once and cracked up.

[dasiegel]

I just cant believe prices people are paying for rookies that are at best role players in 3 years.

Yea that's what I call the Jonny Flynn effect, lol, at least he was a top ten pick.

In conclusion btw, there is zero chance panini purposely send out crappy cases to BO bc they know they are going to be part of case breaks. But it's absolutely possible they suck or are lazy abt collation and hand pick certain boxes and send then to a certain area if it helps them make $$$.

[Bruvydsb]

Josh pulled a Kobe Logoman Auto yesterday. That being said, the cases I saw of his were not very good either.

[xavieronly1]

I just cant believe prices people are paying for rookies that are at best role players in 3 years.

You got to give a standing O for those brave souls for boosting the product value.

[DALLASTILL]

I just cant believe prices people are paying for rookies that are at best role players in 3 years.

I don't disagree with your statement but to the buyer of the /99 RC...paying $450 for a Noel RAP is less than the price of a single box and in theory seems like a bargain.

[thenwhatjk]

The same thing happens with bowman baseball releases, some big breaker like Houdini will do like 50 cases and odds wise he gets killed, but like this, it all falls under normal variance

[lisu]

The same thing happens with bowman baseball releases, some big breaker like Houdini will do like 50 cases and odds wise he gets killed, but like this, it all falls under normal variance

I agree, it happens with all of the companies. Sometimes west coast cases of bowman will have only one colored auto but east coast ones will have 3+. I try to buy my cases from various sources just because of this.

[dasiegel]

The same thing happens with bowman baseball releases, some big breaker like Houdini will do like 50 cases and odds wise he gets killed, but like this, it all falls under normal variance

best point yet. i remember people were complaining abt that, a non panini product as well.

[Hardcore]

Panini had to compete when UD when it first produced NT..now it doesn't..
They built the product on being high priced and thus so because you get patch pieces that dont end up in lower end products...
Its now become a Bait and Switch.. because 80+ percent of the jersey pieces are 1 cols.... in this supposed high end prod..
I wont even list my box.. 3 sticker autos and 1 not... and all white and 1 blue jersey - all numbered to 49 and 99 not lower....
If there was a body of some time reviewing the price per value of each release.. I know there isnt... Panini would get a hefty fine in my eyes for this release... they dont value their customers in the very least.. they have PR guys that make it look that way.... but its not backed up by most of their products.

Unfortunate.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Panini had to compete when UD when it first produced NT..now it doesn't..
They built the product on being high priced and thus so because you get patch pieces that dont end up in lower end products...
Its now become a Bait and Switch.. because 80+ percent of the jersey pieces are 1 cols.... in this supposed high end prod..
I wont even list my box.. 3 sticker autos and 1 not... and all white and 1 blue jersey - all numbered to 49 and 99 not lower....
If there was a body of some time reviewing the price per value of each release.. I know there isnt... Panini would get a hefty fine in my eyes for this release... they dont value their customers in the very least.. they have PR guys that make it look that way.... but its not backed up by most of their products.

Unfortunate.


There is no longer a need to add value. The group breaks in this industry have absolutely killed values. You have fools buying into large amounts of cases and reality is 85-90% of participants get killed. Panini knows any huge case break blowout runs will be filled. So Panini wins, Blowout/Houdini win and the rest lose.

[tristan20]

Now lets see if houdini suddenly starts pulling "HUGE HITS"

[thepinoymamba]

It is actually divided randomly.
All I'm saying is that its not because the case goes to Blowout then expect huge hits.
Its all the same on Firehand, Cards infinity, and other group breakers. It is random and all us like lottery Scratchers ticket.
Boxes are always like that.
Lottery!

[GOWIFB]

No matter what is pulled from major group breakers you cant win. Someone always has a conspiracy theory:

Scenario #1: group breaker pulls great hits - 'The card companies are sending them the best cases to make it look like the product is loaded. This encourages more people to buy into group breaks and to purchase individual boxes'

Scenario #2: group breaker pulls bad or duplicate hits: 'The card companies are sending them the bad cases intentionally as they know people will join them and buy individual boxes anyways.'

Now am I saying its impossible for cases to be filtered to a certain place? No, anything is possible. However the odds of it happening are not likely, especially this particular situation discussed in the thread. First as other people have mentioned alot of group breakers get their stuff from distributors. Some cases may be factory direct but a good number of them are from the distributor. Plus, when it comes to blowout, they would have gotten alot more than 10 cases come in. When they pick the boxes they wouldnt know if they are any different from the dozens or hundreds of others that are there to pick from.

Plus if either scenario would be true it would be the first one. Panini would want to get exposure for their products, not make it look like a dud. They could make every product look like a winner if they really wanted to and send all the loaded cases to all the group breakers or anyone else that advertises the product. Where I see it most likely happening, if at all, is on the initial 1-2 cases that get sent out for reviews by places like Beckett or any of the popular sportscard sites. But when it comes to them shipping out hundreds of cases at a time to a huge company like blowout or to a distributor I cant see them fixing all the cases so that blowout and the group breakers get all the bad ones and the local shops get all the good ones, especially as it would make the product look bad. Whats better for them, to have a group breaker with a couple hundred people watching live and maybe hundreds or thousands more watching on youtube get the loaded cases, or for them to send those out to a local shop and have someone take it home and get all the sick hits there with no witnesses to it? Also the reason you may see alot of people post that they got sick hits in the box break section is because alot of the people that didnt get great hits arent taking the time to bother posting. Obviously some post their results regardless of what they get but a huge number of other people dont bother unless they got something big.

[thepinoymamba]

K2sportscards NT case one is sick... And that is random.
About to be in n NT case 2

[kobe824]

Houdini just pulled 8 more Alex Lenn RPA in 10 cases. That makes 15 Lenn in last 20 cases lol omg

[tristan20]

Houdini just pulled 8 more Alex Lenn RPA in 10 cases. That makes 15 Lenn in last 20 cases lol omg

Not possible, its all random.

Just like the lottery LOL:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Dwade Collector]

Did we pull 15 Lens in 20 cases? YES
Were all of them the /99 version? YES
Is this result possible from a probability point of view? YES
How likely is this result? EXTREMELY EXTREMELY UNLIKELY (not sure the exact number, I'd guess mind blowing, especially considering that they're all the /99 version)

Did Panini do this on purpose? Did Blowout rig the cases? Is Panini part of a scheme involving collectors from asia? Did Panini set us up? Is Panini part of the illuminati!? HELLLL NOOO *Will Smith voice*

This was obviously a mistake in production from Panini's end. This was not intentional, this is not a scheme. It is just poor sorting by Panini, Alex Len redemption was obviously not "mixed" properly. We just happen to hit half of the freaking print run in our cases, unnoticed screw up on Panini's end.

[hard2guardtoo]

Did we pull 15 Lens in 20 cases? YES
Were all of them the /99 version? YES
Is this result possible from a probability point of view? YES
How likely is this result? EXTREMELY EXTREMELY UNLIKELY (not sure the exact number, I'd guess mind blowing, especially considering that they're all the /99 version)

Did Panini do this on purpose? Did Blowout rig the cases? Is Panini part of a scheme involving collectors from asia? Did Panini set us up? Is Panini part of the illuminati!? HELLLL NOOO *Will Smith voice*

This was obviously a mistake in production from Panini's end. This was not intentional, this is not a scheme. It is just poor sorting by Panini, Alex Len redemption was obviously not "mixed" properly. We just happen to hit half of the freaking print run in our cases, unnoticed screw up on Panini's end.

The real question is will it be under or over 15 Lens redemptions in the 20 caser.

[Dwade Collector]

The real question is will it be under or over 15 Lens redemptions in the 20 caser.

Hahahaha I think you are right, I was hoping for multiple Trey Burke's for my jazz but the Lens are killing me

[patchgenie]

Houdini just pulled 8 more Alex Lenn RPA in 10 cases. That makes 15 Lenn in last 20 cases lol omg

are you serious:confused:

imagine somewhere down the line a group breaker pulls 7 oladipo in a row.

[xavieronly1]

are you serious:confused:

imagine somewhere down the line a group breaker pulls 7 oladipo in a row.

That breaker will be in Asian. BO forum trashes so much about Panini and Panini is pissed!

[thepinoymamba]

Joined in K2sports cards NT case random team.
Got the heat and yes
Finally Got a Bosh Patch on card auto, Jones Patch Auto, another Jersey card and a Printing Plate...
Well its all about luck...

[dapro]

I need to join the Asia group break.

[treswatson]

Call Mulder and Scully. I blame the smoking man.

[patchgenie]

That breaker will be in Asian. BO forum trashes so much about Panini and Panini is pissed!

imagine the guy hand making the packs and putting a len in box after box in order.

[xavieronly1]

imagine the guy hand making the packs and putting a len in box after box in order.

I can blame those workers since they are under so much pressure in packaging 8 products in 2 months. I would do the same and call it a day. Screw those big time buyers when I am only making $8 per hour.

[tristan20]

Joined in K2sports cards NT case random team.
Got the heat and yes
Finally Got a Bosh Patch on card auto, Jones Patch Auto, another Jersey card and a Printing Plate...
Well its all about luck...

Well that more than paid for the spot! Can't argue with a case hit! :devil:

[benz35]

10 caser rd 4 is solid!

[thepinoymamba]

Well that more than paid for the spot! Can't argue with a case hit! :devil:
Yeah got more than the money.
There are so many cards on eBay that would be even lower when Flawless comes out.
Then prices would go even lower after next year.

But next years draft class would help flippers and Cards shops across
It could as well bring in more collectors

[thepinoymamba]

10 caser rd 4 is solid!
Now that is good news.
I love reading good news than Cry news.

[khouzza]

I don't know about a scheme or conspiracy or watever, but what I do know is 17 Alex Len from 24 cases with Houdini is just stupid. It's a monumental "hand packing" stuff up by panini, they need to come out and give some sort of explanation at the very least. Those odds are that unreal that I think coincidence is out of the question.

Also if the logoman stats are correct, i.e 1 in every 10 cases, then Houdini had caught up to that as he has 4 now in about 45 cases.

[jasoncardmonger]

I was in 1 of Bateson's 3 case break breaks and I got a Oladipo RPA #/25 and a MCW RPA #/25. By the sounds of it, I did pretty well. Sad part is I don't even collect basketball.

[thepinoymamba]

I was in 1 of Bateson's 3 case break breaks and I got a Oladipo RPA #/25 and a MCW RPA #/25. By the sounds of it, I did pretty well. Sad part is I don't even collect basketball.
Nice. Congrats on Mojo's coming your way. Lol, since you don't collect basketball so you made money for sure.
Time to cash in...

[jasoncardmonger]

Nice. Congrats on Mojo's coming your way. Lol, since you don't collect basketball so you made money for sure.
Time to cash in...

Yeah I will admit when it comes to opening wax and breaks like that I am pretty blessed. I was surprised when I started looking into who they were and how they sell.

[thepinoymamba]

Yeah I will admit when it comes to opening wax and breaks like that I am pretty blessed. I was surprised when I started looking into who they were and how they sell.
Yeah me and my son too are very lucky on Boxes, GB, sometimes Packs as well.
Then we entered the collecting scene when Panini are starting to redeem all redemptions, so we never experienced waiting longer than 6 weeks on any redemption.

Anyway, hopefully we get more blessings on our Cards Mojo's!!!

[khouzza]

Update: Houdini now has 21 Alex Len in 31 cases!

Oh and I've now seen 2 John Stockton auto come out of the same single box/pack (not case) 7 times, clearly something went wrong at the packing end....explanation panini?

[xbignick]

Update: Houdini now has 21 Alex Len in 31 cases!

Oh and I've now seen 2 John Stockton auto come out of the same single box/pack (not case) 7 times, clearly something went wrong at the packing end....explanation panini?

Think it's 22 in 32 now. The most obvious inside job ever!

[hairyangryfella]

Now that is good news.
I love reading good news than Cry news.

Funny, I far prefer 'cry news' than "omg Panini is the best thing ever super mojos I looooove them so much".

The collation of Lens is ridiculous, but do the cases all come from the exact same place?

[cruiserdaddy7]

Yeah me and my son too are very lucky on Boxes, GB, sometimes Packs as well.
Then we entered the collecting scene when Panini are starting to redeem all redemptions, so we never experienced waiting longer than 6 weeks on any redemption.

Anyway, hopefully we get more blessings on our Cards Mojo's!!!

6 weeks???? I have 11 cards in my account ALL over 5 months. One is 3 freaking years.

[thepinoymamba]

Funny, I far prefer 'cry news' than "omg Panini is the best thing ever super mojos I looooove them so much".

The collation of Lens is ridiculous, but do the cases all come from the exact same place?
...
Never mind.....lol[emoji1]

[thepinoymamba]

6 weeks???? I have 11 cards in my account ALL over 5 months. One is 3 freaking years.
Talk to David Sharp...

[IkeThis]

Make that 30 Len in 20 cases from Houdini! Insane!

[xbignick]

Twenty four. Panini will do great with football.

Edit: Twenty five.

[tristan20]

Talk to David Sharp...

That explains alot!

No way in hell does anyone wait only 6 weeks for redemptions. Maybe you only redeemed like 4 cards ever?

[GOWIFB]

The couple people in these breaks that owned Alex Len are going to be real rich once 'Lensanity' starts!

[hermanotarjeta]

Collation variation works both ways. Sometimes you get certain runs of Len, and sometimes you get certain runs of MCW.

In exquisite golf, i've been getting the same /99 rap every 4th case consistently from my source and odds are supposed to be one every 16th case.

In cup hockey, I pulled 6 /99 rookie of a certain player, and would pull him two cases in a row multiple times.

These high end products are hand-packed, so guess what, the factory worker is grabbing from the exact same stack of rookies, putting the cases on a conveyor belt, and those cases are going to the same distributor.

My advice on this is if you find a good run of cases, keep on buying because they can be golden, whereas people from across the country are complaining that they can't pull certain cards.

This was sort of like 2005 bowman draft baseball as well. Topps screwed the west coast distributors with west coast cases containing 8 sotf autos and 2 chrome autos, whereas the east coast cases were loaded with color and some cases having all chrome autos. It's simply a distribution issue, and when you find a gold mine, you go prospecting.

[Dwade Collector]

With the 26 Lens in the 50 cases, I think it might have been lazyness on Panini's part. They probably would never have thought that 1 dude would be opening 80 cases hahaha :)

[philhjr1]

With the 26 Lens in the 50 cases, I think it might have been lazyness on Panini's part. They probably would never have thought that 1 dude would be opening 80 cases hahaha :)

That's a good point. If these cases were not for group breaks but rather Individual consumption then it's a non issue and nobody would be the wiser.

[DUCKanay]

Hopefully with next years NT I can get the Raiders and 25 Macks or Carrs

[tristan20]

Why can't it be an A class rookie? How ironic is that?

[tristan20]

Another 11 Lens in 20 cases, can't make this stuff up. So its bad collating?
Since when are cases decided by the number of lens inside? What a load of BS

Where is the Len logoman then?

7 then 8 then 11 lens = 26 in just 50 cases.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvyDe4_CUAAD9Y1.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvwm5XmIEAEA4yR.jpg:large

[SPauthentic84]

I know people have all sorts of opinions on what is "bad for the hobby" such as flippers, resellers, case breakers, etc...

My opinion is all the addicts (this definition actually fits) that continuously support this company by buying their products. Really look about how much you are spending on sub-par quality at huge prices. If you really think about it, you are hurting the hobby because of you spending, Panini has no reason to change

[thepinoymamba]

That explains alot!

No way in hell does anyone wait only 6 weeks for redemptions. Maybe you only redeemed like 4 cards ever?
In the last two years around
50

[hermanotarjeta]

Another 11 Lens in 20 cases, can't make this stuff up. So its bad collating?
Since when are cases decided by the number of lens inside? What a load of BS

Where is the Len logoman then?

7 then 8 then 11 lens = 26 in just 50 cases.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvyDe4_CUAAD9Y1.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvwm5XmIEAEA4yR.jpg:large

Were all the cases from the same source? Oh yes, BO i'm assuming.

Makes sense to me.

[natbornkiller]

Another 11 Lens in 20 cases, can't make this stuff up. So its bad collating?
Since when are cases decided by the number of lens inside? What a load of BS

Where is the Len logoman then?

7 then 8 then 11 lens = 26 in just 50 cases.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvyDe4_CUAAD9Y1.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvwm5XmIEAEA4yR.jpg:large

can they be traded in for panini points ? :coffee:

[hermanotarjeta]

The Len Logoman is probably a case hit and is not in the same collation batch as his RAP.

[cruiserdaddy7]

In the last two years around
50

So all 50 have been redeemed in 6 weeks and under? Not a chance.

[benz35]

Hopefully this reaches panini and the allocation for immac and flawless will be better

[tristan20]

In the last two years around
50

Seriously, how can anyone believe what you are saying?

[BoxBreaker72]

Panini is a great company that makes amazing products.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

In the last two years around
50


Thats a great outcome. Any chance you can screen shot your closed request page for your redemptions? Thats something I really would love to see.

Thanks and God Bless

[thor_rider08]

Thats a great outcome. Any chance you can screen shot your closed request page for your redemptions? Thats something I really would love to see.

Thanks and God Bless

#@#@#@#@ me I agree. I had kobe auto patch that was live I didn't get for over a year.. and it was live.

[Dwade Collector]

Can someone run down the redemption process for me, I'm new to panini redemptions and I landed about 3 deron auto, 3 Stockton autos, 3 Isaiah Thomas autos, 4 Gordon Hayward autos, 2/3 Jason Kidd autos, 2 kanter autos?, 2 dragic autos, and a Dan "Marley" auto, ALL redemptions. Do some of these ever go smoothly?

[tristan20]

Can someone run down the redemption process for me, I'm new to panini redemptions and I landed about 3 deron auto, 3 Stockton autos, 3 Isaiah Thomas autos, 4 Gordon Hayward autos, 2/3 Jason Kidd autos, 2 kanter autos?, 2 dragic autos, and a Dan "Marley" auto, ALL redemptions. Do some of these ever go smoothly?

Redemptions and smoothly never in the same sentence

[hermanotarjeta]

Can someone run down the redemption process for me, I'm new to panini redemptions and I landed about 3 deron auto, 3 Stockton autos, 3 Isaiah Thomas autos, 4 Gordon Hayward autos, 2/3 Jason Kidd autos, 2 kanter autos?, 2 dragic autos, and a Dan "Marley" auto, ALL redemptions. Do some of these ever go smoothly?

unless you REALLY want the live card, you are better off selling it 100% of the time.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Can someone run down the redemption process for me, I'm new to panini redemptions and I landed about 3 deron auto, 3 Stockton autos, 3 Isaiah Thomas autos, 4 Gordon Hayward autos, 2/3 Jason Kidd autos, 2 kanter autos?, 2 dragic autos, and a Dan "Marley" auto, ALL redemptions. Do some of these ever go smoothly?

Sell sell sell. This company even if in stock will take a long time to ship. I'll let the majority speak on this. Only one person in this thread will tell you Panini has been great to them. None of us believe it.

[minnesotachill]

Sell sell sell. This company even if in stock will take a long time to ship. I'll let the majority speak on this. Only one person in this thread will tell you Panini has been great to them. None of us believe it.

Definitely sell off those redemptions fast.

A buddy and I both pulled a Derrick Williams last year.

He sold his for $125. I redeemed the card and waited for it and got $50 for mine.

[XARZY]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Prices-Sports-Cards-And-Collectibles/110520149373?ref=br_tf

Milwaukee shop pulled 7 logomen including Greek freak 1/1, drob 1/2 AND 2/2!

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Prices-Sports-Cards-And-Collectibles/110520149373?ref=br_tf

Milwaukee shop pulled 7 logomen including Greek freak 1/1, drob 1/2 AND 2/2!


Not too surprised considering the Alex Len travesty, the ratio had to correct itself somewhere in the supply chain. This is obviously part of it.

I would have loved to be in their breaks.

[IkeThis]

insane! 7 wow!

[tristan20]

Proves it right there, the Junk went to the group breaks.

[AlabamaSlamma]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Prices-Sports-Cards-And-Collectibles/110520149373?ref=br_tf

Milwaukee shop pulled 7 logomen including Greek freak 1/1, drob 1/2 AND 2/2!

That's downright embarrassing. How many cases did they open?

[hermanotarjeta]

That's downright embarrassing. How many cases did they open?

Looks like at least 27 cases.

[slim2430]

My LCS had 11 cases... ZERO Logomen!

[minnesotachill]

The Upper Midwest is on FIRE!!!!!!!!!

Giannis 1/1 Logoman pulled in Milwaukee

KD 1/1 Logoman pulled in Minnesota

[secbigazn]

It's just sad that the distribution obviously got screwed up somehow on such a big product that many of us had an eye on.

People have said it before, but since Panini is the king of basketball (pro uni's), they have ZERO reason to stop what they're doing as long as everyone continues to buy their stuff. Collectors are pretty much stuck with having to buy their stuff no matter how crappy it is, how poorly it's packed, how poorly is collated, and how poorly it's distributed. Until collectors stop buying their stuff, they will not change and more situations like this will continue.

[tristan20]

Why are people still saying they screwed up on distribution?

Cases aren't determined by the number of Alex Lens inside!

Panini knew what they were doing, they know which cases go to which distributors.

Those Alex Lens JUNK cases were probably supposed to go to unsuspecting buyers, instead they were busted on camera and the fraud was exposed.

[minnesotachill]

Panini is just making up for what they did last year.

It's a simple as that.

[paul06901]

Why are people still saying they screwed up on distribution?

Cases aren't determined by the number of Alex Lens inside!

Panini knew what they were doing, they know which cases go to which distributors.

Those Alex Lens JUNK cases were probably supposed to go to unsuspecting buyers, instead they were busted on camera and the fraud was exposed.

I mean honestly, to think that Panini COMPLETELY randoms everything and have no clue where the the Durant,Lebron and big-name rookie logomen are going ... is absurd.

There's plenty of "insider trading" of sorts. Upper Deck did it, Topps did it, and you can BET that Panini does it!

If anyone doesn't think that Panini knows at least 50% (if not MUCH MORE) of their product going to Blowout is being sold via group break ... then you don't know this hobby. They know that group breaks are the perfect outlet to throw a ton of junk, and maybe dangle one decent big card to keep people coming back ... and guess what, it's working! .... PERFECTLY! (60 cases with 1 logoman by Houdini?! .... yeah, OK.... :coffee: )

[XARZY]

I mean honestly, to think that Panini COMPLETELY randoms everything and have no clue where the the Durant,Lebron and big-name rookie logomen are going ... is absurd.

There's plenty of "insider trading" of sorts. Upper Deck did it, Topps did it, and you can BET that Panini does it!

If anyone doesn't think that Panini knows at least 50% (if not MUCH MORE) of their product going to Blowout is being sold via group break ... then you don't know this hobby. They know that group breaks are the perfect outlet to throw a ton of junk, and maybe dangle one decent big card to keep people coming back ... and guess what, it's working! .... PERFECTLY! (60 cases with 1 logoman by Houdini?! .... yeah, OK.... :coffee: )

In a fairness he had pulled atleast 1 more Logoman reggie Lewis /2

[djnxeo]

Where is the Len logoman then?

One was pulled in majorlp09 case break #3 for Phoenix Suns spot winner

I won the Suns spot at case break #4 (just few minutes after the case #3 ended), got Kidd auto redemption + Dick van Arsedale auto... Better than nothin' rite? LOL

[minnesotachill]

The fact that they didn't make any dual, triple jersey and autograph cards with players from different teams leads me to believe they are well aware that all of these cases are getting broken in group breaks. It makes it so much easier when you don't have to go thru the hassle of randoming off those dual cards.

[paul06901]

In a fairness he had pulled atleast 1 more Logoman reggie Lewis /2

Yeah that's right, that was the other night's break. So yeah, still too ironic for a completely RANDOM distribution. The odds just don't match up.

If everything was completely, 100% randomly distributed, there would be a better chance at a Tyrannosaurus Rex coming back to life and eating all of Houdini's cases rather than 10 cases yielding 7 Alex Len Redemptions and 60 cases yielding only (2) logomen...

[xavieronly1]

The fact that they didn't make any dual, triple jersey and autograph cards with players from different teams leads me to believe they are well aware that all of these cases are getting broken in group breaks. It makes it so much easier when you don't have to go thru the hassle of randoming off those dual cards.

Nah.. last year NT has many fillers like dual RC sticker autos. And Panini is still making Preferred with 8 people in the booklet.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

Those Alex Lens JUNK cases were probably supposed to go to unsuspecting buyers, instead they were busted on camera and the fraud was exposed.


You're giving way too much credit to the operational intelligence that Panini possesses. First you're presuming that Panini didn't think there was a chance that there would be several large group breaks on BO (just as there were last year). Secondly, you're assuming that they thought they would just be able to have Blowout do their dirty work by distributing that product 1 case at a time to unsuspecting buyers and no one is the wiser, when they could have just done it themselves and controlled the outcome precisely. If thats the case then why not remove all risk and just tell Blowout to "Send these cases to individual buyers, their filled with crap, and break theses live, these are where the big hits are."

A few questions,

1.Do we know where the store that hit 7 Logoman got its cases? Was it direct from Panini, or was it possibly BO itself?

2.Why would Panini deliberately send f***ed up cases to the largest online sports cards retailer and forum knowing they do major group breaks and a high possibility exist for everyone to see the debacle live, and thus diminish their already fledgling reputation?

Not defending Panini by any means, just think your belief that Panini knowingly did this is giving them more credit in the intelligence department than they are due. Its more likely that they just were lazy and complacent on the coalition of the product, then to compound the error they sent that whole lot to one location.

My point of view tends to be based in the premise that Panini isn't that well run and intelligent of a company currently. Where some of their employees can get lazy at times and make mistakes. And the most important fact, Panini just doesn't give a s**t about the collector, they are solely interested in PROFIT. Do I think they have ever knowingly sent a case(s) to certain locations and know what major hits were in them i.e. Nationals, or them busting their own product on their own blog? YES of course, its called unethical marketing, but again, to say they did it in this instance, or that they do this all the time or even a majority of the time seems to paint Panini in a more controlled position than I think there really are.

Your view seems to say that they along with all of their employees are very smart and calculated with every decision they make, when the large sample size of evidence doesn't seem to support that. More importantly your presumption is based in the idea that quality control, the hand-collators, the main distribution warehouses, and upper management are all in cahoots in some massive conspiracy, but decided not to include Blowout in the scheme just doesn't add up to me.

In addition you would certainly figure there would be some whistleblower somewhere in the chain to come forward if this was some large scale conspiracy thats been going on for many years now. Again, their main objective is PROFIT, and by doing this on a large scale not only jeopardizes their ability to profit, but also their survivability as a company. The risk is certainly not worth the reward IMO.

[IronMonkey415]

THIS IS GETTING EXCITING AGAIN!!!!!
Panini responded back.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/active-full-group-case-breaks/761961-20-case-2013-14-national-treasures-basketball-team-draft-1040-a-5.html#post7859327

[xavieronly1]

Funny how people didn't say anything about that 3 MCW RAP in 10 cases break. I'm sure that is not normal. Shouldn't other teams cry about it since the MCW is taking away other RC RAP?

[houdini]

I mean honestly, to think that Panini COMPLETELY randoms everything and have no clue where the the Durant,Lebron and big-name rookie logomen are going ... is absurd.

There's plenty of "insider trading" of sorts. Upper Deck did it, Topps did it, and you can BET that Panini does it!

If anyone doesn't think that Panini knows at least 50% (if not MUCH MORE) of their product going to Blowout is being sold via group break ... then you don't know this hobby. They know that group breaks are the perfect outlet to throw a ton of junk, and maybe dangle one decent big card to keep people coming back ... and guess what, it's working! .... PERFECTLY! (60 cases with 1 logoman by Houdini?! .... yeah, OK.... :coffee: )

Stop being such a fool. We had at least 4 logoman pulled and possibly the Kid patch 1/1 as well. 5 in 60 cases is pretty close to the unofficial 1 in 10 cases everyone was talking about.

[paul06901]

Stop being such a fool. We had at least 4 logoman pulled and possibly the Kid patch 1/1 as well. 5 in 60 cases is pretty close to the unofficial 1 in 10 cases everyone was talking about.

A fool? I apologize for spending $1000+ and not being happy with a distribution error that ironically affected my spots big-time. I never heard of this "unofficial" odds statement, but 4 in 60 cases is 1 logoman in every 15 cases.

It's just upsetting to be part of the blowout case break groups that got "shafted" when a random store in Milwaukee pulls 7 true logomen, and people are posting 1-5 case breaks pulling at least one if not more logomen.

$1000+ worth of entry fees into a group break that has an outcome as it did, and you can better believe I'm not happy about it.

So until there's a good explanation (which now Panini has announced) you can't blame assumptions.



Thanks for reaching out to Panini, and I hope they handle this fairly for everyone...

[SPauthentic84]

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"

I wish I was more creative to think of an example to those who bust over and over again

Just going to quote myself again on this one...

[Dwade Collector]

I believe we had 3 "true" logomen in the 60 cases:

McLemore 1/1 rookie auto
Gordon Hayward Logoman signatures (/4?,/5?)
Reggie Lewis Logoman (/2?)

The Kidd redemption is a "tag" patch, don't think that could count towards the logomen count. I could be wrong, I also think that we hit a Grant Hill triple tag or something?

[gomiamigo]

Yeah that's right, that was the other night's break. So yeah, still too ironic for a completely RANDOM distribution. The odds just don't match up.

If everything was completely, 100% randomly distributed, there would be a better chance at a Tyrannosaurus Rex coming back to life and eating all of Houdini's cases rather than 10 cases yielding 7 Alex Len Redemptions and 60 cases yielding only (2) logomen...

Houdini said he had pulled 4 logomen before the Reggie Lewis [or maybe including?]. There were 2 in one break alone iirc. But that's just what I heard during the video break.

5/ 60 cases = 1/12 cases....seems about right to me. No? And if I'm wrong then I take it all back. [I am not a big Panini fan at all]

Obvs the collating was screwed up not denying that. But the problem is, if the 'true' distribution is 8.3% of cases, then a 5% hit rate over 60 cases is not too far fetched if that's 1.5% of the print run. Plenty of other people here have posted Logomen they hit, and presumably some of them were boxes or cases from BO. So you can't just 'cherry-pick' the group case breaks.

OK, I counted, I saw 17 other Logomen pulled from BO. There was no way to know which 10 would be the first group break vs which cases had the 17 logomen pulled not in group breaks - obviously Panini cannot possibly know if it's FIFO or LIFO.

Interesting that the 7-logoman shop pulled only one Rookie Logoman RAP though. Still plenty to go around... ;)

[gomiamigo]

Also, the idea that they'd purposefully sell crap to the Group Breaks [and why BO instead of other groups? Or you think they monitor the whole internet LOLOL] is ridic.

Also it's prima facie illegal for them to do so. They'd make no incremental profit and incur huge ill-will and legal costs and possibly fines.

[jerryw]

A fool? I apologize for spending $1000+ and not being happy with a distribution error that ironically affected my spots big-time. I never heard of this "unofficial" odds statement, but 4 in 60 cases is 1 logoman in every 15 cases.

It's just upsetting to be part of the blowout case break groups that got "shafted" when a random store in Milwaukee pulls 7 true logomen, and people are posting 1-5 case breaks pulling at least one if not more logomen.

$1000+ worth of entry fees into a group break that has an outcome as it did, and you can better believe I'm not happy about it.

So until there's a good explanation (which now Panini has announced) you can't blame assumptions.



Thanks for reaching out to Panini, and I hope they handle this fairly for everyone...



all breaks cant end like the one on 09-07-2012

[SPauthentic84]

all breaks cant end like the one on 09-07-2012

Is that when he pulled the MJ PMG?

[xavieronly1]

all breaks cant end like the one on 09-07-2012

Is it the date when he breaks the BGS case?

[paul06901]

Haha you guys are funny. Always need to resort to irrelevant, personal attacks.

Internet trolling at it's finest. The guy with the fake Maravich autos and the Penny collector who has a million opinions yet only 16 trades and nearly 5,000 posts in only a few years. Get out side and smell the fresh air ;)


Try sticking to the topic at hand? Nahh, you guys won't anyways ... that's OK though, your internet personas are more important! :D

[jerryw]

Is that when he pulled the MJ PMG?

yes

Is it the date when he breaks the BGS case?

its in the thread as well lol

[paul06901]

yes



its in the thread as well lol

Did you really take the time to go back and find that? Haha ... MOM ... THE MEATLOAF!!!!

[jerryw]

Did you really take the time to go back and find that? Haha ... MOM ... THE MEATLOAF!!!!


if you call taking the time less then 30 seconds then yes I did...

im just glad you was able to start breathing again

[xavieronly1]

yes



its in the thread as well lol

Who is the fool keep talking in between our posts? Can't tell.

[SPauthentic84]

Haha you guys are funny. Always need to resort to irrelevant, personal attacks.

Internet trolling at it's finest. The guy with the fake Maravich autos and the Penny collector who has a million opinions yet only 16 trades and nearly 5,000 posts in only a few years. Get out side and smell the fresh air ;)


Try sticking to the topic at hand? Nahh, you guys won't anyways ... that's OK though, your internet personas are more important! :D

Paul, I thought I was blocked. Also, you didnt even say thanks the thread where I actually complemented you on your fast shipping.

[ejs23]

Panini is a great company that makes amazing products.

LOL.... wait, I have one too:

Panini really cares about collectors and works hard to provide excellent customer service.

[i couldn't type that with a straight face]

[IronMonkey415]

Ok...I see something about Meatloaf. One of my favorite food.

[21taylor21-0911]

Hester just got Len'ed lol same ole hits Suns and Jazz and same ole rpa no kobe autos again, i had wolves and i have been watching other breaks and i havent seen but maybe 1 Dieng RPA and maybe 2 love autos in over 100 cases

[NickM]

Thats a great outcome. Any chance you can screen shot your closed request page for your redemptions? Thats something I really would love to see.

Thanks and God Bless

What he said.

I have a redemption pending since last September; I've had others fulfilled in under 2 weeks. It all depends on when the player signs.

Since they're to keep, I'm OK with waiting.

[NickM]

Definitely sell off those redemptions fast.

A buddy and I both pulled a Derrick Williams last year.

He sold his for $125. I redeemed the card and waited for it and got $50 for mine.

That's because Williams played poorly. Not a worry on Kidd or Stockton.

[khouzza]

If you read panini's response to Houdini, they clearly admit a fault in distribution, I'm on my phone or I would go back and highlight certain parts of the reply. Either way they admitted fault. They also call fixing the problem a "challenge", meaning to me, they know they screwed up and have to act quickly to save face. I believe "Lenageddon" started in Houdini's 3rd 10 caser and continued through the 4th and into the 20 case break.

I urge everyone involved in those breaks to stay updated with Panini's responses and to band together to get a desired outcome. We all put in a lot of money and deserve some sort of compensation, as I mentioned panini has already admitted fault! A simple apology is not good enough, giving everyone some kind of coupon/credit or a free box of hoops in my opinion is not good enough. NT is high end, the screw up which has been admitted too was high end, so the compensation should be.......

[Amerigo Vespucc]

More proof panini knows whats up! greek freak logoman pulled in Wisconsin?
I noticed local card shops get nice hand packed cases, china gets hooked up as well, while the rest of us that are stupid enough to do case breaks end up with garbage.
I did 21 freaking bucks case breaks! 21! And pulled ZERO! giannis cards!!!!
Best card i got is a Nate Wolters Rpa! Thats like pulling a Mathew Delavadova!

[Amerigo Vespucc]

Panini like any other US company loves to expand globally worldwide. That helps explain hookin up Asia markets, however i find it funny, i think Asian markets are already hooked on sports cards just like all of us in north America, so why continue to unevenly disperse product? My solution? SHUFFLE ALL CASES! Totally randomize for all markets!
No damn excuses for those Alex Lin redemptions. My guess is you guys will get panini redemption points. Good news is, what are the odds this happens again? Be optimistic guys.

[jlzinck]

More proof panini knows whats up! greek freak logoman pulled in Wisconsin?
I noticed local card shops get nice hand packed cases, china gets hooked up as well, while the rest of us that are stupid enough to do case breaks end up with garbage.
I did 21 freaking bucks case breaks! 21! And pulled ZERO! giannis cards!!!!
Best card i got is a Nate Wolters Rpa! Thats like pulling a Mathew Delavadova!

Panini like any other US company loves to expand globally worldwide. That helps explain hookin up Asia markets, however i find it funny, i think Asian markets are already hooked on sports cards just like all of us in north America, so why continue to unevenly disperse product? My solution? SHUFFLE ALL CASES! Totally randomize for all markets!
No damn excuses for those Alex Lin redemptions. My guess is you guys will get panini redemption points. Good news is, what are the odds this happens again? Be optimistic guys.

Lemme guess your wife saw this on facebook.

FALSE FLAG!!!

[shaner1]

To Document my personal involvement:

50 total cases for me in BO Group breaks between Houdini (20, 10, 10) and Nordy (5,5): Timberwolves for all of them

1 RPA of Shabazz and 1 RPA of Dieng


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 personal cases from LCS:

1 RPA each of McLemore, Hardaway JR, Wolters, and Roberson
1 Durant Auto
2 Anthony Davis autos
3 Pippen auto redemptions
2 Dragic auto redemptions
2 Ibaka auto redemptions

Zero Logoman cards, Zero tag cards, Zero 1/1's, Zero Kobe/Blake/Kyrie autos

[BIOFUEL420]

I ordered 3 cases and am from Melbourne Australia pretty ok cases..? i got 1 Killer..
up for sale 3K OBO

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i398/steven4201/IMG_0002_zps636f4fd7.jpg (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/steven4201/media/IMG_0002_zps636f4fd7.jpg.html)

[smalltown]

To Document my personal involvement:

50 total cases for me in BO Group breaks between Houdini (20, 10, 10) and Nordy (5,5): Timberwolves for all of them

1 RPA of Shabazz and 1 RPA of Dieng


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 personal cases from LCS:

1 RPA each of McLemore, Hardaway JR, Wolters, and Roberson
1 Durant Auto
2 Anthony Davis autos
3 Pippen auto redemptions
2 Dragic auto redemptions
2 Ibaka auto redemptions

Zero Logoman cards, Zero tag cards, Zero 1/1's, Zero Kobe/Blake/Kyrie autos

I'm not as deep as you. Only a part of about 17 or 18 cases. Really only one card worth speaking of. Easily the worst experience breaking i've encountered since i came back to collecting.

[gomiamigo]

To Document my personal involvement:

3 personal cases from LCS:

1 RPA each of McLemore, Hardaway JR, Wolters, and Roberson
1 Durant Auto
2 Anthony Davis autos
3 Pippen auto redemptions
2 Dragic auto redemptions
2 Ibaka auto redemptions

Zero Logoman cards, Zero tag cards, Zero 1/1's, Zero Kobe/Blake/Kyrie autos

You're not actually surprised you got no Logomans, 1/1s or Kobe/Blake/Kyrie autos in 9 boxes are you?

I mean, I have opened hundreds and hundreds of high-end boxes/cases from UD with Kobe and Panini and gotten exactly 1 Kobe auto.

I have never pulled a single Durant auto out of Panini. I've had OKC in group breaks on top of that - nothing.

I have never pulled a Blake auto out of any Panini product ever. I've had LAC in group breaks also. Zero for lifetime.

Not preferred, not prizm, not NT, not Gold Standard, etc. I think the one Kobe auto I got was guaranteed in yr 1 of GS or I'd still be waiting to pull one.

53 cases is like 1.2% of the print run. It's not NEARLY enough cases to say anything other than the collation issue on #LenGate so far.

And we've had 3 logomen pulled in the group breaks. If our avg should have been 4, it's not far off the median/mean figure after all.


ps Not a fan of Panini, but a fan of using stats correctly.

[trask7]

I was in three separate case breaks with STLSPORTSCARDS. Every RPA we got was gold/25 none to /99. I got the only 1/1 and it was Zach Randolph dual tag. We got a lot of Jason Kidd autographs and Mike Conely. Two Kobe all rookies teams and both gold /25. Kyrie Erving auto /10, D Wade auto redemption and Steve Nash tag auto redemption /5.

[plasticmoz]

I believe we had 3 "true" logomen in the 60 cases:

McLemore 1/1 rookie auto
Gordon Hayward Logoman signatures (/4?,/5?)
Reggie Lewis Logoman (/2?)

The Kidd redemption is a "tag" patch, don't think that could count towards the logomen count. I could be wrong, I also think that we hit a Grant Hill triple tag or something?

There was also a Chandler Parsons Logoman Redemption.

[Dwade Collector]

There was also a Chandler Parsons Logoman Redemption.

Sorry, completely forgot that one!!! You are correct sir :)

[minnesotachill]

How is this collecting? Sounds more like gambling to me.

[XARZY]

Hester just got Len'ed lol same ole hits Suns and Jazz and same ole rpa no kobe autos again, i had wolves and i have been watching other breaks and i havent seen but maybe 1 Dieng RPA and maybe 2 love autos in over 100 cases
its something with the BO cases bcuz every break ive been in outside of BO has hit a KLOVE.

[Cavaliercards]

Matt ran 10 cases for Blowout TV the day of release and they were awful.

[XARZY]

You're not actually surprised you got no Logomans, 1/1s or Kobe/Blake/Kyrie autos in 9 boxes are you?

I mean, I have opened hundreds and hundreds of high-end boxes/cases from UD with Kobe and Panini and gotten exactly 1 Kobe auto.

I have never pulled a single Durant auto out of Panini. I've had OKC in group breaks on top of that - nothing.

I have never pulled a Blake auto out of any Panini product ever. I've had LAC in group breaks also. Zero for lifetime.

Not preferred, not prizm, not NT, not Gold Standard, etc. I think the one Kobe auto I got was guaranteed in yr 1 of GS or I'd still be waiting to pull one.

53 cases is like 1.2% of the print run. It's not NEARLY enough cases to say anything other than the collation issue on #LenGate so far.

And we've had 3 logomen pulled in the group breaks. If our avg should have been 4, it's not far off the median/mean figure after all.


ps Not a fan of Panini, but a fan of using stats correctly.

5 cases of Nordy22 NT yielded this.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/nordy22/20140823_134311_zpsxkr9tobr.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/nordy22/20140824_100128_zpsofvm0okc.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/nordy22/20140824_100114_zpstkxgmtyt.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/nordy22/20140824_100103_zpsnylbbbah.jpg

rest of the hits can be seen here (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/active-full-group-case-breaks/733682-13-14-national-treasures-5-case-draft-your-team-break-21.html#post7852508)

[shaner1]

You're not actually surprised you got no Logomans, 1/1s or Kobe/Blake/Kyrie autos in 9 boxes are you?

I mean, I have opened hundreds and hundreds of high-end boxes/cases from UD with Kobe and Panini and gotten exactly 1 Kobe auto.

I have never pulled a single Durant auto out of Panini. I've had OKC in group breaks on top of that - nothing.

I have never pulled a Blake auto out of any Panini product ever. I've had LAC in group breaks also. Zero for lifetime.

Not preferred, not prizm, not NT, not Gold Standard, etc. I think the one Kobe auto I got was guaranteed in yr 1 of GS or I'd still be waiting to pull one.

53 cases is like 1.2% of the print run. It's not NEARLY enough cases to say anything other than the collation issue on #LenGate so far.

And we've had 3 logomen pulled in the group breaks. If our avg should have been 4, it's not far off the median/mean figure after all.


ps Not a fan of Panini, but a fan of using stats correctly.



I wasn't complaining about having no Logoman cards in my breaks, you simply inferred it from your reading. Re-read my post, it wasn't a "complaint" at all. I was simply documenting in which breaks I was involved for the BO groups and what I pulled from my personal breaks. I'm no Panini basher and no whiner, so don't try to make me out like one. (Now LEAF products on the other hand...I will bash them.) I opened a total of 11 NT's boxes personally.
Over the years I have pulled about 14 Kobe autos out of Panini products , 8 Durants, and 10 Blakes. And three Logomen. You need simply need to break more product.