View Full Version : Facebook Razz Groups
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 12:09 AM
These things make me laugh so much!
Yesterday someone on there complaining that they got a notification from paypal saying they needed to stop accepting gift payments from people as a way of transacting business and the group getting all upset when I asked why they think it's OK to use a service and then not pay for it.
Today, someone posting how someone else took their money and hasn't shipped their card in a month. The geniuses there are now up in arms about it and saying they need to come up with a way to protect themselves from stuff like this.
Oh the irony and stupidity this world breeds.
phasesout
12-10-2014, 12:13 AM
Bahaha when I saw the title of this thread I said 'oh no not this #@#@#@#@ again'. These guys did not disappoint.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 12:18 AM
Bahaha when I saw the title of this thread I said 'oh no not this #@#@#@#@ again'. These guys did not disappoint.
It just cracks me up all the time. One guy last night went on comparing not paying fees to "test driving" a car and then I told him it was like renting a car and then returning and refusing to pay for it.
He didnt really have a reply to that.
These are the people that don't want to pay their local taxes and then complain that their schools districts suck and they have holes in their streets.
xbignick
12-10-2014, 12:21 AM
If you think that's bad, there's a breaker that's new (less than a month) who only accepts gift payments and somehow people still join the breaks.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 12:23 AM
If you think that's bad, there's a breaker that's new (less than a month) who only accepts gift payments and somehow people still join the breaks.
Oish. This world is made of some really dumb people.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 12:36 AM
Razz Groups?
Basically they are groups that host raffles (which are technically illegal). And they make people pay for entrance fees w/paypal "friends and family" so they can't have charge backs made against them by people that lose the raffles.
glen87
12-10-2014, 12:38 AM
Basically they are groups that host raffles (which are technically illegal). And they make people pay for entrance fees w/paypal "friends and family" so they can't have charge backs made against them by people that lose the raffles, or when they decide to keep the nicer hits and not send anything
fixed that for ya:)!
jerryw
12-10-2014, 01:16 AM
fake facebook account (atleast one that has zero way of identifying you)....fake email....then use fake email to get fake pp account....then join a few razzes...people get to know ya...razz a 500 dollar card (most you can withdrawal without being verified) ...get all payments in form of gift...transfer gifted payments from fake account to real account via pp goods (gift would be to obvious).....close facebook account...close fake pp account.......wash and repeat
it would be so easy to scam the hell out of those clowns and get away scott free.....glad I have a conscience because they deserve it by trying to get around paypals share of the money
Firerunner4
12-10-2014, 01:19 AM
fake facebook account (atleast one that has zero way of identifying you)....fake email....then use fake email to get fake pp account....then join a few razzes...people get to know ya...razz a 500 dollar card (most you can withdrawal without being verified) ...get all payments in form of gift...transfer gifted payments from fake account to real account via pp goods (gift would be to obvious).....close facebook account...close fake pp account.......wash and repeat
it would be so easy to scam the hell out of those clowns and get away scott free.....glad I have a conscience because they deserve it by trying to get around paypals share of the money
The Frank Abagnale of baseball cards!
jerryw
12-10-2014, 01:22 AM
The Frank Abagnale of baseball cards!
catch me if you can lmfao.....but seriously I would never do it...but im sure more then a few will
Basically they are groups that host raffles (which are technically illegal). And they make people pay for entrance fees w/paypal "friends and family" so they can't have charge backs made against them by people that lose the raffles.
Thanks for info, though honestly I could see why even honest sellers would have to go that route, but yeah as a buyer your just asking to get scammed. Paypal really needs to fix this somehow, its sad the only option to know you don't get screwed as a seller is by asking for gift payments. Shady people on both sides, LOL.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 02:13 AM
Thanks for info, though honestly I could see why even honest sellers would have to go that route, but yeah as a buyer your just asking to get scammed. Paypal really needs to fix this somehow, its sad the only option to know you don't get screwed as a seller is by asking for gift payments. Shady people on both sides, LOL.
Honest sellers? They are breaking these by hosting an illegal raffle. What's honest about a seller like that?
I've thought about doing them and I keep coming back to this fact and can't let myself do it. I'd prefer to lose money than cheat the system.
Honest sellers? They are breaking these by hosting an illegal raffle. What's honest about a seller like that?
I've thought about doing them and I keep coming back to this fact and can't let myself do it. I'd prefer to lose money than cheat the system.
Well that's simple, I don't consider raffles illegal, and they shouldn't be IMO. If people can buy POT and have same sex marriages, why can they not hold raffles to sell there goods? LOL
I am not saying I would break the so called law, but I definitely do not believe in it.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 02:44 AM
Well that's simple, I don't consider raffles illegal, and they shouldn't be IMO. If people can buy POT and have same sex marriages, why can they not hold raffles to sell there goods? LOL
I am not saying I would break the so called law, but I definitely do not believe in it.
Whether you believe in it or not it's a fact. And the fact that they add a stupid trivia question to try and avoid breaking it should show you that.
I'm not saying I agree with it either but take that, then gift payments, then scammers (on both sides). Just so many strikes.
And the main point is lost on how these folks are worried about scammer, don't want to pay fees but want protection
phasesout
12-10-2014, 04:02 AM
I don't consider raffles illegal
Bahahaha this thread just keeps giving. I'd love to see someone take up this defense in court, for any crime really.
cubfanbudman79
12-10-2014, 07:28 AM
Whether you believe in it or not it's a fact. And the fact that they add a stupid trivia question to try and avoid breaking it should show you that.
I'm not saying I agree with it either but take that, then gift payments, then scammers (on both sides). Just so many strikes.
And the main point is lost on how these folks are worried about scammer, don't want to pay fees but want protection
There is some great groups on facebook for razzes. Sounds like you're in a rather novice one, and I've never had any issues in groups I'm in with scammers or lowlifes. Problem is there is alot of groups that don't do vouch system properly and it lets all kinds of people in the group that shouldn't be there
It's fun to me to buy into stuff for a shot to win something big. I mean hell Babe Ruth Cuts, Jordan RCs and stuff like that. Why not try for 10$ or so
Keyser Soze
12-10-2014, 07:49 AM
When I was in junior college I worked part time at a hydraulic pump manufacturing plant. There were about 15 Hispanic guys that worked in the same building, and one of them would raffle off his paycheck every Friday at lunch. He'd sell roughly 30-50 entries at $10 each and turn his $240ish paycheck into $300 - $500. I thought he was a genius. These guys? Maybe not so much.
jcmint
12-10-2014, 07:52 AM
Couldn't agree more with this. The really good ones you have to get vouched for by five different people. Been in one for a year never saw a problem yet. Some of the biggest dealers names in the hobby . It's a blast and I have won some monster cards at a fraction of the price.to each his own but knocking them all without knowing all the details is ignorant.
There is some great groups on facebook for razzes. Sounds like you're in a rather novice one, and I've never had any issues in groups I'm in with scammers or lowlifes. Problem is there is alot of groups that don't do vouch system properly and it lets all kinds of people in the group that shouldn't be there
It's fun to me to buy into stuff for a shot to win something big. I mean hell Babe Ruth Cuts, Jordan RCs and stuff like that. Why not try for 10$ or so
tonedef2oo8
12-10-2014, 07:54 AM
Ohh razzes. The slime of our hobby. The only faction of our hobby where they rip people off and no one cares. Remember when Boomo would sell $75 cards for $100 pocketing $25 for nothing but being a slob with a parrot lol and as the cards go up he pockets it. All for his "customers". Most of these raazs hosts are scammers or failed breakers. How many times was Boomo busted shilling, lying and ripping people off? Exactly.
shrevecity
12-10-2014, 07:57 AM
Thanks for info, though honestly I could see why even honest sellers would have to go that route, but yeah as a buyer your just asking to get scammed. Paypal really needs to fix this somehow, its sad the only option to know you don't get screwed as a seller is by asking for gift payments. Shady people on both sides, LOL.
Honest sellers would not be willing to screw Paypal out of the service they are providing/ Paypal can and does lock the accounts of those who accept to many gift payments. When this happens they can keep any money in there for up to 6 months. Honest sellers would not take the risk.
shrevecity
12-10-2014, 07:58 AM
There is some great groups on facebook for razzes. Sounds like you're in a rather novice one, and I've never had any issues in groups I'm in with scammers or lowlifes. Problem is there is alot of groups that don't do vouch system properly and it lets all kinds of people in the group that shouldn't be there
It's fun to me to buy into stuff for a shot to win something big. I mean hell Babe Ruth Cuts, Jordan RCs and stuff like that. Why not try for 10$ or so
How many people vouched for Haiku before and even after his scam?
cubfanbudman79
12-10-2014, 08:09 AM
How many people vouched for Haiku before and even after his scam?
Difference with Haiku is he ripped off how many thousands of dollars and bolted. As JC said there is some highly respected people in this group and nobody is going to blow up their image over at most a 3-3500$ item. I understand what you're trying to say though
jcmint
12-10-2014, 08:19 AM
How bout some of the highly respected members on BO in the same razz group.
Bottom line is try to get in the right group or take your chances. If your in the right group and everyone has been properly vouched for no one cares about gifting payments between friends. Isn't that what some of us do here between people we know well. Also in a good razz group the cards are sold at ebay avg. not 20% above.
I took in over 100k from ebay sales and paid my fees. Gift payments sent and received are for friends and family I don't see a problem sending gift payments as long as I am paying fees on sales on ebay or forums. Isn't the gift payment offered by paypal as a way to send funds to family and friends. I don't see this as stealing at all.
Most of you guys are right there are some really crappy razz sites and people do get ripped off and they are overpricing cards. If you're in one of those groups it's on you man. Buyer beware.
Tvanho
12-10-2014, 08:43 AM
Not to derail the thread too much, but raffles are illegal? Like all raffles or these in particular because of the way they are done of FB? I've been to many a fairs where there's been many things raffled off.
mikecamp99
12-10-2014, 09:01 AM
Not to derail the thread too much, but raffles are illegal? Like all raffles or these in particular because of the way they are done of FB? I've been to many a fairs where there's been many things raffled off.
Gambling is illegal online, Razzing is gambling, but instead of winning money your winning cards, or as I found out yesterday there are groups that razz off X-boxs, PS4's, even old coins.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 09:07 AM
Not to derail the thread too much, but raffles are illegal? Like all raffles or these in particular because of the way they are done of FB? I've been to many a fairs where there's been many things raffled off.
You can get a permit to run a legal raffle. I'm pretty sure they do that.
rcearley
12-10-2014, 09:12 AM
You can get a permit to run a legal raffle. I'm pretty sure they do that.
This is correct, and below is a nice summary regarding raffles:
"In the United States and Canada all types of fundraising raffles are considered to be games of chance. Consequently, they are very tightly regulated and failure to adhere to the law is considered a serious offense. If you have any doubt about the correct procedures, do not rely on anybody's word but a government official or a lawyer knowledgeable in these matters."
Fundraising Raffle Laws, Rules, and Regulations by Deane Brengle (http://www.fundraising-newsletters.com/fundraising-raffle-laws-rules-and-regulations.html)
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 09:23 AM
This is correct, and below is a nice summary regarding raffles:
"In the United States and Canada all types of fundraising raffles are considered to be games of chance. Consequently, they are very tightly regulated and failure to adhere to the law is considered a serious offense. If you have any doubt about the correct procedures, do not rely on anybody's word but a government official or a lawyer knowledgeable in these matters."
Fundraising Raffle Laws, Rules, and Regulations by Deane Brengle (http://www.fundraising-newsletters.com/fundraising-raffle-laws-rules-and-regulations.html)
Wahoo...I did remember reading that a while back (like years) so glad I was right on it :-D
Tvanho
12-10-2014, 09:23 AM
Ah, thanks guys! Seemed like such an innocent thing whenever I see them at parties and fairs usually :)
kykid4uk
12-10-2014, 09:24 AM
Gift payments sent and received are for friends and family I don't see a problem sending gift payments as long as I am paying fees on sales on ebay or forums. Isn't the gift payment offered by paypal as a way to send funds to family and friends. I don't see this as stealing at all.
Sorry, but you're just trying to justify using a service without paying for it, which is just a nice way of saying stealing.
It's not just sending money to friends and family. That is, say you have a daughter in college who has an emergency and you can put money in her paypal account immediately. What you're doing is buying a product, which in this case is the "raffle ticket" or the card itself. No other way to define that than buying goods or services, which means when you don't pay the fees associated with this service, you're stealing.
And here's the biggest point: Without PayPal, there could be no razzes. It simply wouldn't work. So you're taking an essential part of the business plan and trying to cut them out of any profit. Again, that's stealing.
Cubs_rock21
12-10-2014, 10:16 AM
Where are these facebook groups? They are always such a secret.
goldenegg1
12-10-2014, 11:17 AM
Bottom line is you are in the wrong groups.
Many of the good ones people are vetted before allowing them in the group and if you are too high on your price, people will let you know.
ageofreason13
12-10-2014, 11:32 AM
I think it is less about avoiding fees and more about preventing chargebacks from the guys that lost. From what I've seen, razzing is more about inflating the cost of your cards because the total of all the razz spots is usually at or above ebay. I don't think the paypal fees are that big of a concern, but maybe I'm wrong.
whodaman2310
12-10-2014, 12:57 PM
I think it is less about avoiding fees and more about preventing chargebacks from the guys that lost. From what I've seen, razzing is more about inflating the cost of your cards because the total of all the razz spots is usually at or above ebay. I don't think the paypal fees are that big of a concern, but maybe I'm wrong.
i can confirm that you can get your money back for a gift :D
DannyShakes
12-10-2014, 01:08 PM
Haha you people have no clue.
Haha you people have no clue.
Well then clue us in, please.
TheHeel
12-10-2014, 01:25 PM
Haha you people have no clue.
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:)!:)!:)!:)!:)!:)!:)!:flex::flex::flex::flex::flex::flex:
:coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:
Bruvydsb
12-10-2014, 01:25 PM
I'm in 2 of them and have had no issues. I have both bought and sold. Great experiences all around.
DannyShakes
12-10-2014, 01:31 PM
Well then clue us in, please.
The hazing... I can barely sleep at night.
Dick picks... lots of wieners.... anyone have the time?
TheHeel
12-10-2014, 01:33 PM
Bottom line is you gotta use common sense when you are in these groups. The one group I am in, I never had any issues in. The other groups, I stay away.
iBLeeDBaTTLeReD
12-10-2014, 01:42 PM
The hazing... I can barely sleep at night.
Dick picks... lots of wieners.... anyone have the time?
Where do I sign up???
well if anyone has good groups feel free to PM me in the right direction, LOL.
Also if anyone knows of one specific for pool cues, please let me know, thanks.
DannyShakes
12-10-2014, 01:46 PM
I just ask that if anyone does join a razz group PLEASE stay away from razz kings 2.0
Know scammed run free in that group.
Ah, thanks guys! Seemed like such an innocent thing whenever I see them at parties and fairs usually :)
They're innocent when they're just raising funds. Raffles tend to work when people are willing to throw money at a good cause with the off chance of winning something.
The thing is, on Facebook someone could raffle off a $500 card by selling $1 tickets (or "razzes"). By selling 600 tickets, they pocket $100. But there's really no limit. They could sell 10,000 tickets and pocket $9,500. Buyers have no idea how many tickets might be sold, no recourse, and there is zero transparency.
That's why games of chance like that are highly regulated.
trixstar
12-10-2014, 01:56 PM
Getting paypal to investigate these guys is the fastest way to get rid of them.
TheHeel
12-10-2014, 01:56 PM
Where do I sign up???
We don't want any :mad::mad::mad::mad::D
TheHeel
12-10-2014, 01:57 PM
They're innocent when they're just raising funds. Raffles tend to work when people are willing to throw money at a good cause with the off chance of winning something.
The thing is, on Facebook someone could raffle off a $500 card by selling $1 tickets (or "razzes"). By selling 600 tickets, they pocket $100. But there's really no limit. They could sell 10,000 tickets and pocket $9,500. Buyers have no idea how many tickets might be sold, no recourse, and there is zero transparency.
That's why games of chance like that are highly regulated.
Maybe in certain groups. In other groups, everything is transparent.
Maybe in certain groups. In other groups, everything is transparent.
yeah, this is what I was going to say. I would never join any so called game of chance, unless I know the odds.
Also game of chance contests or whatever should not be governed and controlled by illegalizing it. It should be a common sense thing, and let people make their own judgments, on raffle type situations. Obviously i'm not suggesting everyone should be allowed to make their own underground casino, LOL, though my thoughts don't differ much in that aspect either. In a country based and built on freedoms, we truly don't have much freedom anymore.
death2redemptions
12-10-2014, 02:32 PM
Also game of chance contests or whatever should not be governed and controlled by illegalizing it. It should be a common sense thing, and let people make their own judgments, on raffle type situations. Obviously i'm not suggesting everyone should be allowed to make their own underground casino, LOL, though my thoughts don't differ much in that aspect either. In a country based and built on freedoms, we truly don't have much freedom anymore.
This seems to be more of a politically motivated comment but as a libertarian I tend to agree.
Right or wrong it still doesn't change the fact that it is illegal. Whether it should be illegal or not, well, I won't get into that.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 02:42 PM
This seems to be more of a politically motivated comment but as a libertarian I tend to agree.
Right or wrong it still doesn't change the fact that it is illegal. Whether it should be illegal or not, well, I won't get into that.
100% agree
jcmint
12-10-2014, 02:50 PM
The bottom line in getting into a good group is to be vouched for by multiple respected members of this hobby of ours. As far as stealing is concerned we will all have our opinions on that matter. I sleep like a baby at night.
Maybe in certain groups. In other groups, everything is transparent.
yeah, this is what I was going to say. I would never join any so called game of chance, unless I know the odds.
How do you know this? Are they audited? I'm truly curious.
Also game of chance contests or whatever should not be governed and controlled by illegalizing it. It should be a common sense thing, and let people make their own judgments, on raffle type situations. Obviously i'm not suggesting everyone should be allowed to make their own underground casino, LOL, though my thoughts don't differ much in that aspect either. In a country based and built on freedoms, we truly don't have much freedom anymore.
They're not "illegalized." They're regulated. If you don't meet certain standards and report (and pay your taxes), you can't do it.
Honestly it's probably cheaper and less invasive to not allow unregulated raffles than to allow them and have to deal with the endless enforcement and prosecution that would result from all the swindlers taking advantage. Because you know people wouldn't just sit back and accept being it when they inevitably got scammed.
How do you know this? Are they audited? I'm truly curious.
Simple, say I want to raffle off a $300 Ebay price/value card or item. I then would raffle as an example 15 tickets at $20 each, or maybe 16 at $20 for an extra $20 for the trouble of doing the raffle, but nothing extreme, just a fair fee added.
I would never join one say that has a $300 item with tickets at $25 with either unkown amounts, or ridiculous amount above the value.
asujbl
12-10-2014, 03:25 PM
How do you know this? Are they audited? I'm truly curious.
Not sure your question but most reputable razz groups only have certain slots that have to fill before the "raffle" takes place and everyone can see who has joined.
If a card has 10 spots and $10 a spot it's totally transparent on what the seller is getting for the card and who is buyng spots. It won't get 10 buyers if it's a $70 card so it has to be priced fairly.
Not sure if that's what you are asking.
I've never seen a razz where someone just says "$10 a ticket" but doesn't give any indication on how many tickets are being sold.
jewcer2k5
12-10-2014, 03:26 PM
I didnt expect this thread to get this much attention.
asujbl
12-10-2014, 03:28 PM
I didnt expect this thread to get this much attention.
You used the word "razz" - it brings out everyone. Haha
ageofreason13
12-10-2014, 03:38 PM
They're innocent when they're just raising funds. Raffles tend to work when people are willing to throw money at a good cause with the off chance of winning something.
The thing is, on Facebook someone could raffle off a $500 card by selling $1 tickets (or "razzes"). By selling 600 tickets, they pocket $100. But there's really no limit. They could sell 10,000 tickets and pocket $9,500. Buyers have no idea how many tickets might be sold, no recourse, and there is zero transparency.
That's why games of chance like that are highly regulated.
What are you even talking about? There are no tickets in these groups. Sellers post how many spots there will be, and how much each spot is. There is no hidden tickets, everything is done in the comments below.
phasesout
12-10-2014, 07:46 PM
I didnt expect this thread to get this much attention.
Will you join me in being disappointed that this thread created to show the idiocy of the razz groups turned into a 'how/where do I join' thread?
Reminds me of this:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_leesxyBbRA1qf5ifco1_500.gif
"Odds of winning mathematically insignificant"
"I like those odds!"
Bunch of addicts around here lol.
speedmasterp
12-10-2014, 07:54 PM
What are you even talking about? There are no tickets in these groups. Sellers post how many spots there will be, and how much each spot is. There is no hidden tickets, everything is done in the comments below.
I'm pretty sure that's what he meant. Was just using the word tickets b/c someone mentioned raffle above.
The one I'm a member of requires multiple people to vouch for you. The price and number of slots should be in line with ebay value (otherwise it wouldn't fill anyway) and it also regulates how the videos have to be completed and posted. Typing and recording live when you start recording, while showing the time, typing done when done and about to stop, then the expectation is it's uploaded instantly.
I don't use it much, but I don't have any concerns with scamming in that group.
That being said, there is some good advice in this thread, unless you're 99.9% sure whats going on in the groups you're a part of...stay away
DannyShakes
12-10-2014, 09:49 PM
Getting paypal to investigate these guys is the fastest way to get rid of them.
This kid.... Haha.
Whats the difference in group breaks or knowing what you might get?
1/10 chance I win a Luck Contenders 9.5 for $110.
1/20 chance my team MIGHT hit in a case break of Flawless and I MIGHT get a rookie worth $20 for $110...
Razzing a card and joining a case break is about the same thing but you have better odds in winning a card that you want instead of a blind shot at some scrub on a team you don't even like.
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