BGS 9.5 vs PSA 10 for vintage RCs

[hazenuts]

Is there a reason why there is such an astronomic price discrepancy between BGS 9.5 ($4,003.37) and PSA 10 ($11,299.00!!!) for the MJ Fleer 1986 RC?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-87-Fleer-Basketball-57-Michael-Jordan-RC-Rookie-BGS-9-5-GEM-MINT-CENTERED-/381094221661?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item58bafc575d&nma=true&si=3zrSjqV4PkItC3lv2aaUi4c5RL0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-Basketball-Michael-Jordan-ROOKIE-RC-57-PSA-10-GEM-MINT-PWCC-/351242039307?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item51c7a8300b&nma=true&si=3zrSjqV4PkItC3lv2aaUi4c5RL0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTUyMVg5NjQ=/z/2f0AAOSwaNBUkwaR/$_1.JPGhttp://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODc4WDUxOA==/z/lO8AAOSwD0lUe8bY/$_1.JPG

[bkcardcollector]

I am interested in this too. I would say it has a lot to do with the surface 9 sub grade. I am very ignorant in this area and am looking to get into vintage graded rookies myself. Any info would be greatly appreciated here aswell. Grading anything but rcs makes little sense to me but I like graded rcs especially vintage.

[hazenuts]

Does this have something to do with the PSA Registry? collectors trying to fill out their registry set

[burke23]

Check the pop report. PSA is much harder to get a 10 than bgs a 9.5 for paper stock cards of the 80's and earlier (something like 4x easier for a bgs 9.5 than psa 10 for the jordan). Plus the Psa set registry greatly impacts psa prices.

[hazenuts]

the power of registry, but doesn't BGS also have a registry as well?

[SportsItUpCards]

PSA.......... And it's not even a contest. Shouldn't even be a thread.

BGS is not even good for modern cards! Lol I'd go with PSA for any card, period.

PSA

[k13]

If you are buying for PC...no point in overpaying...

Eventually the line won't be as profound anyway.

1986 is barely vintage...but a psa 10 can have so many flaws and still be a 10, not sure why all the hoopla...just sheep following the crowd and sill "set" collectors.

[bkcardcollector]

If you are buying for PC...no point in overpaying...

Eventually the line won't be as profound anyway.

1986 is barely vintage...but a psa 10 can have so many flaws and still be a 10, not sure why all the hoopla...just sheep following the crowd and sill "set" collectors.

This is how I see it too. I am not a huge fan of beckett or grading in general by any means but I do like how they have sub grades and the fact that it is almost impossible to get a BGS10 means that when you do you got a real gem. PSA does not have a PSA10.5 for a perfect card. Ya beckett screws up but so does PSA. I would not pay anymore for a psa 10 then a bgs 9.5 and see them as equivalent. Ideally a BGS9.5 will have all subgrades 9.5 and it is cool that you can see if they are not. Ultimately I think your own eye is the real test but in this day and age (no more hobby stores and internet sales instead) grading does make a lot of sense. Again I will say that I think grading anything but a rookie is just wasting money.

[hitman12]

I do agree that the discrepancy there is crazy. I definitely do not agree with you, bkcardcollector, about only grading rookies.

[GoHawks25]

PSA 10 could have been shilled.

[marquis930]

PSA 10 could have been shilled.
From the look of the bid history on that auction, it doesn't appear to have been shilled.

I've tracked a few of these PSA 10 Jordan RCs and they usually go for over $10K, while the BGS 9.5s usually go for $4K-$5K.

[hazenuts]

From the look of the bid history on that auction, it doesn't appear to have been shilled.

I've tracked a few of these PSA 10 Jordan RCs and they usually go for over $10K, while the BGS 9.5s usually go for $4K-$5K.

as a collector, would you pay extra $6000K for a PSA 10? that's a bit mind boggling. Is it only applied to MJ Fleer rc? what about other vintage rc?

[marquis930]

as a collector, would you pay extra $6000K for a PSA 10? that's a bit mind boggling. Is it only applied to MJ Fleer rc? what about other vintage rc?
Hahaha! Heck no! There's no way that I'd pay the extra $6K for the PSA 10. I'd be fine with the BGS 9.5 and, if I ever felt like I NEEDED a PSA 10, I would just try to do a PSA crossover on it.

I've noticed some differences in sales price between PSA-graded vs. Beckett-graded vintage cards, but the gap when it comes to the 1986 Fleer cards always makes me do a double-take. PSA has a much better reputation when it comes to vintage and people are willing to pay a premium for it...and for the power of the PSA registry.

One other thing to note is that Beckett has a different brand when it comes to cards from 1980 or before. For those older vintage cards, they use Beckett Vintage Grading (BVG) instead of their standard BGS brand.

[thenashcollecto]

all grading services are a total fraud.

[LuckySlayer]

I'd go the bgs.. Just for the fact it's nearly a third cheaper. The slabs look better to imo.

[rttrffg2012]

I have never found BGS to be a nice company to deal with.

Their reps are liars, their customer service line is no help, they grade sheet cut cards, they try to create monopolies with their pricing, and are just very ungreatful to be in a hobby the WE keep alive.

[aro13]

Sometimes when a BGS card gets 9.5 for everything but surface it is because it is a recent sheet cut, but I do not think that is the case here.

The BGS card has to be the better buy. If you really wanted the BGS card in a PSA case and thought it was a 10, you could submit it 120 times via the crossover service and if it crossed to a PSA 10 you would have still saved money. if you were really daring you could crack it out of the BGS case and try that way to get it in a PSA holder.

[asujbl]

Why pay $40K for an Acura TSX when the Honda Accord is built on the same frame, and can have the same accessories, for $10K less? They do the same thing at the end of the day.

It's never as simple as "I'd rather have a BGS 9.5 and save $6K"

Having a PSA 10 Jordan is a big time thing. Status symbol for your collection.

BGS 9.5 Jordan, while amazing, isn't on the same level.

[burke23]

Hahaha! Heck no! There's no way that I'd pay the extra $6K for the PSA 10. I'd be fine with the BGS 9.5 and, if I ever felt like I NEEDED a PSA 10, I would just try to do a PSA crossover on it.

I've noticed some differences in sales price between PSA-graded vs. Beckett-graded vintage cards, but the gap when it comes to the 1986 Fleer cards always makes me do a double-take. PSA has a much better reputation when it comes to vintage and people are willing to pay a premium for it...and for the power of the PSA registry.

One other thing to note is that Beckett has a different brand when it comes to cards from 1980 or before. For those older vintage cards, they use Beckett Vintage Grading (BVG) instead of their standard BGS brand.

Doing a crossover is NOT easy. I just subbed a bgs 9.5 Jordan and cost me $100 for nothing. I have tried to cross 5 2000 SPA Tom Bradys (none of which had a 9 sub) and only one has crossed. Trying subbing raw to both companies...I guarantee your success of 9.5's will be higher than PSA 10's. Part of the reason I normally use bgs. I am pleasantly surprised with bgs results on occasion...never am with PSA.

[SportsItUpCards]

Why the price difference?? Well... They're both being shilled!

Since when does a Jordan Fleer RC sell for anywhere near that? LOL! :D

I guess they figured, what the heck, they're shilling his 90's inserts, and Exquisite cards. Why in the world couldn't we shill his RC?! After all, we have 10 of these stocked up, might as well become "rich" off it....:rolleyes: smh

Pre shilling, and when there were LESS in circulation for grades 9's and 10's(for PSA), the 9's were at $1500, while the 10's were at $3500 give or take.

So now there are more in circulation, but since its all of a sudden the "cute" thing to do, to shill and create fake prices, a larger population gets MORE??? :eek: smdh...... This nonsense will end sooner than later, and the suckers being taken(if there are any.... If its not just a few morons bidding on each others auctions trying to get "rich") will lose out big time, like people have lost all throughout history, buying up cards when they were "hot" only to drop rock bottom. Cards are just a HOBBY!!! If you treat it like an investment, then good luck!

Fake prices being set to fool buyers into believing these prices, to HOPEFULLY lure them into eventually buying one at(hopefully) near the price they shilled(put in fake bids to increase value) it for, and BAM they lured one in and took him for a ride........ :flex:

LEARN PEOPLE!!! Don't get taken for a sucker.... The information is out there, you just gotta edumacate yourselves.

[marquis930]

Doing a crossover is NOT easy. I just subbed a bgs 9.5 Jordan and cost me $100 for nothing. I have tried to cross 5 2000 SPA Tom Bradys (none of which had a 9 sub) and only one has crossed. Trying subbing raw to both companies...I guarantee your success of 9.5's will be higher than PSA 10's. Part of the reason I normally use bgs. I am pleasantly surprised with bgs results on occasion...never am with PSA.

I never said that doing a PSA crossover would be easy, but it is an option if you buy a BGS 9.5. I've tried to do it a few times with mixed results. PSA is definitely tough when it comes to doing the crossover from another grading company.

The key thing with what I suggested is that one has to be happy with having the BGS 9.5 instead of the PSA 10 just in case PSA rejects the attempted crossover.

[tristan20]

PSA cases suck, they damage the surface of the cards. I have had a few cards ruined this way. There is nothing separating the card from the case and they get fused to it if its been in there for a while.

[asujbl]

PSA cases suck, they damage the surface of the cards. I have had a few cards ruined this way. There is nothing separating the card from the case and they get fused to it if its been in there for a while.

The new slabs are much nicer...

But to be fair I haven't cracked one either.

[SportsItUpCards]

PSA cases suck, they damage the surface of the cards. I have had a few cards ruined this way. There is nothing separating the card from the case and they get fused to it if its been in there for a while.

No they don't. Lol... Smh

I have cards that have been in PSA cases since 1999, and all different types of cards, stickers, you name it! All years, 2000, and beyond, that have been in there, and have been through all types of crazy weather, and nothing!!! Never one problem.

The PSA case IMO displays the cards best, with a crystal clear view, and not dull like with the BGS cases because of that wrinkly mess of a plastic inner sleeve, that if anything, will make the card sweat if left anywhere near heat. Soft plastic in an enclosed space don't mix. That's why sometimes you see some foggy cases. This is not a biased opinion as I have tries both companies, and probably have the same amounts graded by both over the years.

PSA is the clear(pun intended :D ) choice! If I wanted to wrap my cards around zip lock bags, and then put them inside a hard plastic case, I would do that on my own... :D

[nera20]

I would rather buy a psa 7 or 8 of a card and have a TON of money left over to buy other items.

[SportsItUpCards]

I would rather buy a psa 7 or 8 of a card and have a TON of money left over to buy other items.

Very smart.

Call me when there's a PSA 1 available, for cheap! :)!

[pejc300]

Given the amount of fake Jordan PSA cards it is unbelievable to me that people still buy this card...BGS might grade a trimmed/altered card, but you will rarely (if ever) find a fake one graded by BGS because their slabs are too difficult to duplicate at this time. I'm pretty sure there's a couple hundred people out there with PSA slabs (old style) in their basement just making money hand over fist.

Also, even though Sport it Up is labeled a conspiracy theorist, don't discount what he is saying here with the Jordan PSA 10 values. If you follow them all closely, the same cards keep showing up every few months. Even though they are "won" by high feedback bidders, they almost always end up back on the Probstein auction block. Tons of manipulation going on with this card.

[burke23]

Given the amount of fake Jordan PSA cards it is unbelievable to me that people still buy this card...BGS might grade a trimmed/altered card, but you will rarely (if ever) find a fake one graded by BGS because their slabs are too difficult to duplicate at this time. I'm pretty sure there's a couple hundred people out there with PSA slabs (old style) in their basement just making money hand over fist.

Also, even though Sport it Up is labeled a conspiracy theorist, don't discount what he is saying here with the Jordan PSA 10 values. If you follow them all closely, the same cards keep showing up every few months. Even though they are "won" by high feedback bidders, they almost always end up back on the Probstein auction block. Tons of manipulation going on with this card.

To be clear PSA isn't grading the fakes - they are either fake PSA slabs, or legit ones that were compromised. Still amazed how little PSA has cared historically about what should be a troubling issue with their product.

[ohio_mba]

To be clear PSA isn't grading the fakes - they are either fake PSA slabs, or legit ones that were compromised. Still amazed how little PSA has cared historically about what should be a troubling issue with their product.

I have wanted to own a slabbed Jordan RC for a long time and still plan to get one in the future. The problem is I could never be 100% certain what I bought isn't a fake.

[Scottish Punk]

Most has already been said. PSA is the gold standard in grading. They have a better reputation than Beckett, especially older cards. BVG grading is just plain awful. PSA has a deep and thriving registry which pushes bidding wars. This is only to grow with modern cards. When, for example, Tim Duncan makes the HOF. The difference between his SP RC in PSA 10 and BGS 9.5 will grow on the PSA side. The only saving grace for Beckett grading right now is autographed cards and the perceived value of grading an auto.

[smalltown]

PSA has a deep and thriving registry

This is really the only reason PSA holds any lead over BSG. Too many people have too much invested in PSA to leave. Take the registry away and there is no difference between the two. BSG may even be better at that point. Better holders and sub grades. But the registry is king.

[asujbl]

I would rather buy a psa 7 or 8 of a card and have a TON of money left over to buy other items.

Doesn't this go back to the car argument?

Why buy a $50,000 car when for all intents and purposes a $20,000 car will do the same thing and leave you with $$ left over?

Why buy a $100 sweater when a $20 sweatshirt from WalMart will essentially do the same thing?

I understand the "I have a Jordan and still have $$" argument but people spending $3,000-$10,000 on a card aren't usually generally worried about what they have left if they are paying market value.

They are paying to have a PSA 10. Not one of the many PSA 7's or 8's you can easily find.

[Scottish Punk]

This is really the only reason PSA holds any lead over BSG. Too many people have too much invested in PSA to leave. Take the registry away and there is no difference between the two. BSG may even be better at that point. Better holders and sub grades. But the registry is king.

No, not the only reason. PSA just has better graders and are tougher graders, especially cards from 2001 or so on back. Beckett does have better holders from a protection stand point. You are also paying into the PSA brand, which has longer grading history (more expertise), uniform label flips, more professional website (registry, pop report, etc.). Beckett has BVG, BGS, JSA, BCCG with white, silver, gold, blue. Card collector's are notoriously OCD.

I am torn on the subgrades. I used to love them 100% and still like to see what the grader is seeing. That is awesome from a learning standpoint, but they do open Beckett up to more criticism from a consistency standpoint. It also makes the overall grade seem off at times. It is a good thing for beckett for marketing and resubmit game.

[SportsItUpCards]

This is really the only reason PSA holds any lead over BSG. Too many people have too much invested in PSA to leave. Take the registry away and there is no difference between the two. BSG may even be better at that point. Better holders and sub grades. But the registry is king.

Beckett had/has(?) a registry, but it stunk! Couldn't/can't compete with PSA. No way no how. PSA is simply king. Why can't some people just accept it??

I've done many 100 card submissions to bought throughout many years, and PSA is "THE" grading company, period. All around, not just for the registry.

If Beckett was any good, and people cared, their registry would flourish also. It just ain't there. And it's okay. There is only room for one great company. You can throw BGS along with SGC...

When this this fantasy start of people thinking they could compare the two companies??? :D LOL

Smh...

[GC1980]

Beckett had/has(?) a registry, but it stunk! Couldn't/can't compete with PSA. No way no how. PSA is simply king. Why can't some people just accept it??

I've done many 100 card submissions to bought throughout many years, and PSA is "THE" grading company, period. All around, not just for the registry.

If Beckett was any good, and people cared, their registry would flourish also. It just ain't there. And it's okay. There is only room for one great company. You can throw BGS along with SGC...

When this this fantasy start of people thinking they could compare the two companies??? :D LOL

Smh...


SGC is phenomenal, especially prewar baseball. I personally prefer SGC for my best cards as they are as harsh, if not more so than PSA and they have by far the nicest presenting holder.

PSA has the largest marketshare and the most devoted registry followers, hence a slight premium in sale prices depending on what card/market you are in. All TPG companies are simply providing authentication services and an opinion on grade. I have personally seen cards in PSA 7 holders end up in PSA 9 holders upon crack/resub and I've seen 8's end up in 10 holders.

End of the day, buying the card and not the holder is the best advice, especially if you are not looking to sell certain items. If you want to sell, cross over to the company that gets the most bang for the grade. If you have a strong eye for condition they should cross.

[elee712]

I wouldn't let anybody here try to convince you which company is better. Each has its pros and cons and just all depends what's important to you.

[drexler]

I recently purchased two 86 Fleer Clyde Drexlers BGS9.5 for $150 & PSA 10 $210

Hard to compete with PSA set builders on the early Fleer stuff.
86 --> $210 - POP 192
87 --> $212 - POP 10
88 --> $850 - POP 15

[GC1980]

I recently purchased two 86 Fleer Clyde Drexlers BGS9.5 for $150 & PSA 10 $210

Hard to compete with PSA set builders on the early Fleer stuff.
86 --> $210 - POP 192
87 --> $212 - POP 10
88 --> $850 - POP 15

88 fleer drexler is a beast of a card to find centered without black ink smudges.

[bkcardcollector]

BGS 10 is way harder to get then PSA10 so anyone who says PSA is tougher take this into consideration. I would be interested in some comparisions of PSA9 to BGS9.

[smalltown]

Beckett had/has(?) a registry, but it stunk! Couldn't/can't compete with PSA. No way no how. PSA is simply king. Why can't some people just accept it??

That's what I just said? The reason for PSA dominance in vintage is the registry.

[SportsItUpCards]

That's what I just said? The reason for PSA dominance in vintage is the registry.

No, not just vintage...

[bkcardcollector]

I think it all comes down to the question of whether you are buying the card or the slab. I don't know why anyone would pay a premium for a slab instead of a card but hey to each there own. Collect slabs if you really want. If you are talking from a sellers perspective PSA10 with out a doubt fetches more than bgs9.5 that is not even a debate. whether the card inside is more mint or not is entirely up to debate and not uniform at all. You could easily get a PSA10 that is more mint than a BGS9.5 but the reverse is also true.

[aro13]

Why the price difference?? Well... They're both being shilled!


Since when does a Jordan Fleer RC sell for anywhere near that? LOL!

Maybe, they are being shilled but somebody is paying these prices based on these PSA sales.

11/23/14 eBay Auction | Image highstreetcollectibles n***m 22 $10,100.00
11/8/14 eBay Listing | Image americanrarecoinstore n***n BIN $12,995.00
11/3/14 eBay Listing | Image thepitcards 5***5 BIN $14,995.00
10/31/14 eBay Listing | Image ssiino n***n BIN $13,995.00
10/26/14 eBay Auction | Image probstein123 s***i 44 $10,900.00
10/22/14 eBay Listing | Image jrowejr25 n***n BIN $14,923.20
10/22/14 eBay Listing | Image americanrarecoinstore o***o Best Offer $11,000.00


and the BGS sales


12/28/14 eBay Auction | Image probstein123 t***6 33 $4,003.37
12/18/14 eBay Listing | Image halftimecards2011 c***n Best Offer $4,975.00
12/13/14 eBay Auction | Image capital-llc b***d 27 $5,877.00
12/11/14 eBay Auction | Image musicisdead y***t 2 $4,050.00
11/27/14 eBay Auction | Image jjstopandshop q***a 34 $4,010.99
11/18/14 eBay Auction | Image jjstopandshop t***n 22 $4,050.00
11/15/14 eBay Listing | Image wwwmelgranger1 0***s Best Offer $4,400.00
11/6/14 eBay Auction | Image casexxfan d***e 13 $4,100.00
10/28/14 eBay Auction | Image dgordo76 k**** 25 $3,675.00
10/19/14 eBay Auction | Image hooplasports _***e 64 $3,999.99

[hazenuts]

Maybe, they are being shilled but somebody is paying these prices based on these PSA sales.

11/23/14 eBay Auction | Image highstreetcollectibles n***m 22 $10,100.00
11/8/14 eBay Listing | Image americanrarecoinstore n***n BIN $12,995.00
11/3/14 eBay Listing | Image thepitcards 5***5 BIN $14,995.00
10/31/14 eBay Listing | Image ssiino n***n BIN $13,995.00
10/26/14 eBay Auction | Image probstein123 s***i 44 $10,900.00
10/22/14 eBay Listing | Image jrowejr25 n***n BIN $14,923.20
10/22/14 eBay Listing | Image americanrarecoinstore o***o Best Offer $11,000.00


and the BGS sales


12/28/14 eBay Auction | Image probstein123 t***6 33 $4,003.37
12/18/14 eBay Listing | Image halftimecards2011 c***n Best Offer $4,975.00
12/13/14 eBay Auction | Image capital-llc b***d 27 $5,877.00
12/11/14 eBay Auction | Image musicisdead y***t 2 $4,050.00
11/27/14 eBay Auction | Image jjstopandshop q***a 34 $4,010.99
11/18/14 eBay Auction | Image jjstopandshop t***n 22 $4,050.00
11/15/14 eBay Listing | Image wwwmelgranger1 0***s Best Offer $4,400.00
11/6/14 eBay Auction | Image casexxfan d***e 13 $4,100.00
10/28/14 eBay Auction | Image dgordo76 k**** 25 $3,675.00
10/19/14 eBay Auction | Image hooplasports _***e 64 $3,999.99

wow such a massive premium for psa 10~! need to pick me up some psa 10 vintage rcs

[k13]

Beckett had/has(?) a registry, but it stunk! Couldn't/can't compete with PSA. No way no how. PSA is simply king. Why can't some people just accept it??

I've done many 100 card submissions to bought throughout many years, and PSA is "THE" grading company, period. All around, not just for the registry.

If Beckett was any good, and people cared, their registry would flourish also. It just ain't there. And it's okay. There is only room for one great company. You can throw BGS along with SGC...

When this this fantasy start of people thinking they could compare the two companies??? :D LOL

Smh...

Go to modern baseball on ebay and see how many are psa and bgs...same with football...
that's the future...

old cards...psa..

no one wants 2014 chrome autos in psa ...
they look silly too..

[gomiamigo]

SGC is better for true Vintage cards.

At the end of the day these are 2 different products from 2 different companies. Both have their flaws. I like the BGS subgrades.

MJ BGS 9.5s were going in the $3-3.5k range at Baltimore Nationals if you looked around. There was a nice BGS 9.5 for $3200 that I stupidly didn't buy.

An online auction going in the $3.6k-4k range isn't a big surprise to me, no evidence of shilling.

[burke23]

Go to modern baseball on ebay and see how many are psa and bgs...same with football...
that's the future...

old cards...psa..

no one wants 2014 chrome autos in psa ...
they look silly too..

Is 2000's modern? PSA 10 base rookies sell for more than BGS 9.5 base in most instances (eg Tom Brady SP Authentic), and it isn't close. Autos is more balanced, but PSA can still have an advantage. Strasburg bowman autos (during their peak) were going for a premium in psa 10 vs bgs 9.5.

[asujbl]

Go to modern baseball on ebay and see how many are psa and bgs...same with football...
that's the future...

old cards...psa..

no one wants 2014 chrome autos in psa ...
they look silly too..

Bleh. That's always such a horrible generalization.

These days, if you want to make a blanket statement, it should be BGS for Autographs and PSA for anything else.

Mike Trout Chrome RC PSA 10 - Averages $80
Mike Trout Chrome RC BGS 9.5 - Averages $56

Hardly a "vintage" card.

LeBron Topps Chrome, Kobe Topps Chrome, Brady Bowman Chrome, Durant Topps Chrome...

The list goes on and on of modern cards that sell better in PSA 10 shape compared to BGS 9.5 if they aren't autographed.

PC'ing an item? Just go with the slab you like.

But if you are going off what sells higher then "Old vs. New" comparison is flat out wrong.

[BestRCs]

Have you guys tried the BGS registry. It's the worst thing ever. Collectors like uniformity and when it comes to classics. Pre 2000 non autos/classics/vintage. PSA is the way to go. A lot more vintage comes in the form of PSA and people who purchase PSA high grade vintage have money obviously and I think it just trickles down from there. They want uniformity so they'll get PSA. They have money and are willing to spend it. Have you guys seen the collections of the really rich? All PSA.

New school collectors collect with autos and all that and don't really identify with what PSA is all about. I think PSA card collectors have a different card collecting culture than the BGS crowd for sure. Their targets are a lot different. PSA is all about vintage and classics while BGS is autos and patches and one of ones.

[pnft17]

Psa is just more respected in this era. People speak with what they pay for them.
I've never seen a card damage by being in a Psa case. I do worry about Bgs having plastic sleeve getting welded to card an damaging surface that way. Or sometimes a dimple is in plastic sleeve and it gets pressed into card.
Psa updated it's case awhile ago. It now seals the exact same way Bgs case does. Pretty much impossible to tamper with them now.

[elee712]

Not sure why everyone is comparing bgs 9.5 to Psa 10. Are we also comparing bgs 8.5 with Psa 9?

[SportsItUpCards]

Last I checked, "vintage" was for cards 1980-81 Topps and before.... Could have changed since?

But anyway, it's PSA all the way for vintage, and any cards really. BGS is a total joke these days.

So yeah, PSA all day long.

[topbasketballfa]

This topic is so full of fallacies. PSA > BGS. Why PSA 10 more than BGS 9.5. Lots of naive posts and false statements. Traditionally PSA was king in the old vintage cards, that's all they had. Modern era 1980 and later has shifted to BGS because of a more detailed grading criteria, having the four sub grades and also an auto grade. Demand revolves around supply and obviously there's more BGS 9.5 than PSA 10. If you're looking at the Jordan Fleer 57 RC, a PSA 10 has average sales of 11.5k, while a BGS 9.5 (with all 9.5 subs) selling for 5.5k. The BGS 9.5 (with 2 10s, 2 9.5s and the 10 as centering) sells for 20k plus. Well, look at, that a BGS 9.5 being higher than a PSA 10. A BGS 10, were sold for 75k and up and with centering 10 or all 10 went for something like 150-200k.
I would glad trade you a PSA 10 for a BGS 10 and even a BGS 9.5 with 2 10s and 2 9.5s.
In sum, you literally need to know what you're getting regardless of PSA / BGS. There are PSA 10 out there where autos are smeared, faded, yet the card is still PSA 10 because PSA doesn't grade auto. Would you buy that over a BGS 9/ Auto 10? Heck no!