Which Team Is The Best? Poll #8

[Skipscards]

The All-Time Redraft is complete and now the question of which All-Time Team is the best is up to the Blowout Community! We will conduct voting 4 teams at a time until only one team remains. Here is the eighth poll.

Participants in the draft are free to vote for any team except their own.

So, Blowout Community, of these 4 teams, which is the best? Feel free to interpret "best" however you wish.


--------TEAM 1---------------TEAM 2---------------------TEAM 3-------------------TEAM 4
Lineup
1 Tim Raines (LF) -------- Tris Speaker (CF) ------------ Roberto Alomar (2B) ----- Tony Gwynn (CF)
2 Alan Trammell (SS) -----Dwight Evans (RF) ----------- Moises Alou (LF) --------- Nomar Garciaparra (SS)
3 Joe Morgan (2B) --------Dick Allen (3B) ---------------Alex Rodriguez (SS)--------Babe Ruth (RF)
4 Al Kaline (RF) -----------Fred McGriff (1B) ------------ Gary Sheffield (3B) -------Will Clark (1B)
5 Tony Perez (3B) --------Ivan Rodriguez (C) -----------Sadaharu Oh (1B) -------- Robin Ventura (3B)
6 Ted Simmons (C) -------Cupid Childs (2B) ------------ Oscar Charleston (CF)----- Red Schoendienst (2B)
7 Richie Ashburn (CF) -----Joe Kelley (LF)-------------- Josh Hamilton (RF)--------- Fred Clarke (LF)
8 Boog Powell (1B)--------Bobby Wallace (SS)---------- Johnny Bench (C)--------- Jorge Posada (C)
9 Pitcher -----------------Pitcher-----------------------Pitcher------------------- Pitcher
Bench
B1 Adam Jones (OF) -------Billy Hamilton 2014 (OF)------Brett Butler (OF)-----------Anthony Rizzo (1B)
B2 Buddy Bell (3B) -------- Buddy Myer (SS/2B/3B) ------Devon White (OF)---------Brandon Phillips (2B)
B3 Gary Gaetti (3B) --------Jay Buhner (OF) ------------Don Baylor (OF/1B)-------- Jack Glasscock (SS)
B4 Ken Singleton (OF)----- Placido Polanco(3B)----------Frank White (2B)-----------Sal Bando (3B)
B5 Lee May (OF) --------- Tim Salmon (OF)-------------Jason Giambi (1B)----------Terry Steinbach (C)
B6 Steve Finley (OF) ------Toby Harrah (2B/SS)---------Terry Pendleton (3B) ------Wally Berger (OF)
B7 -----------------------Tony Pena (C)---------------
Rotation
SP1 Walter Johnson -------Grover Cleveland Alexander---Hal Newhouser-------------Jim Palmer
SP2 Dave Steib -----------Gaylord Perry----------------Ron Guidry-----------------Cole Hamels
SP3 Dennis Martinez -------Tim Keefe------------------ Denny McLain--------------Stan Coveleski
SP4 Kenny Rogers ---------Sadie McMahon------------- Dave Stewart--------------Matt Cain
SP5 Rick Sutcliffe ---------Jim Abbott------------------ Josh Beckett-------------- Bobby Mathews
Bullpen
RP1 Doyle Alexander -------Charlie Hough---------------Al Leiter-------------------Alex Cobb
RP2 Jose Mesa-------------Dan Plesac------------------Brad Lidge-----------------C. J. Wilson
RP3 Mark Eichhorn ---------Koji Uehara-----------------Lee Smith------------------Doug Drabek
RP4 Mike Boddicker --------Marcus Stroman-------------Mark Fidrych---------------Jason Schmidt
RP5 Mike Flanagan ------------------------------------ Rod Beck ----------------- Rick Aguilera
CLR Rollie Fingers --------- Dan Quisenberry------------ Aroldis Chapman----------- Sparky Lyle


Each team was given the option of stating their case in 3 sentences or less:

Team #1: Team #1 was drafted with an overall "competitive balance" of hitting/fielding/career longevity/pitching/sabermetric (WAR)/HOF success in mind. I also took careful consideration of players having ties to the city of Baltimore, as even the great Al Kaline went to Southern High School in town. It is my belief, that with a combined 1287.8 WAR, 111 All-Star appearances, 44 Gold Gloves, and 6 Hall of Famers including the great Walter Johnson anchoring the pitching staff, that Team #1 would defeat any other team in this draft in a head-to-head format.

Team #2: N/A

Team #3: N/A

Team #4: N/A


If you haven't voted in the other polls, they can be found here:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/848962-team-best-poll-7-a.html

[Skipscards]

The final poll of Round 1!

[LCM1223]

Gotta be 3 or 4...no doubt

[RelicCollector]

I voted for Team #4.

[Mattsurewood]

Shocked at the voting here, very interesting.

[chessiecards]

Team 1. The other 3 didn't even give one sentence to make their case!

[enbambam6986]

Shocked at the voting here, very interesting.

Ruth........

[Mattsurewood]

Ruth........

Teamed with Alex Cobb..not Ty

[Skipscards]

Ruth........

Big Train....

[Skipscards]

Whoops. Corrected mistake made on Team 1. Not supposed to be two 1st basemen...Ashburn is in CF. :)!

[Skipscards]

"In 107 at bats, Babe hit .280 with 8 doubles, 2 triples and 7 home runs. He walked 19 times giving Babe an on base percentage of .389, and Ole Walter punched him out 25 times. Not bad, but let’s take a closer look. Babe hit .342 lifetime but Johnson held him 62 points under his lifetime mark. In his career, his home run to at bat ratio was 1 homer in every 11.76 at bats; against Johnson he hit a homer in every 15.29 at bats. Babe whiffed 1 in every 6.43 at bats but when he faced the Big Train, he went down swinging once every 4.28 at bats. Babe’s numbers against Johnson were pretty damn good however, in essence, the Big Train reduced the Sultan of Swat to a mere mortal."

[enbambam6986]

Teamed with Alex Cobb..not Ty

Don't forget Anthony Rizzo!

[CM Sports Memorabilia]

Team 1

This might be the first time I didn't vote for Ruth as #1 in any poll or question!

[Skipscards]

Team 1

This might be the first time I didn't vote for Ruth as #1 in any poll or question!

Yeah, hard not to like the balance on Team #1. Good lineup, bench, rotation, and bullpen. Also, we're talking Walter Johnson...

[atoaz12]

Is anyone else just seeing jumbled names on the mobile site?
Can't even tell who is under each team

[wwejhardyrox]

Is anyone else just seeing jumbled names on the mobile site?
Can't even tell who is under each team

Unfortunately, yes.

[Skipscards]

Is anyone else just seeing jumbled names on the mobile site?
Can't even tell who is under each team

Unfortunately, yes.

Shows up perfectly on a computer.

[exitmusicblue]

Shows up perfectly on a computer.

Or, you can just keep track of ordering while on your phone, e.g. look at the first players after each slot, compare them with the second listed in each slot, etc. Doable.

[BigEd]

Team #1 is far and away the best choice here. The other teams have good strengths, but Team 1 is amazing.

[Skipscards]

Bumping it up. This one should defnitely be closer than it is...

[rob11nats]

Team 4 here too - lineup is deep as well as loaded at the top, and Palmer+Hamels would give any team nightmares making a combined 5 starts in a 7 game series.

[Skipscards]

One day left. Sure, Team 4 has Ruth, but Team 1 has Walter...

[hofcollector2]

One day left. Sure, Team 4 has Ruth, but Team 1 has Walter...

the problem is after big train you have who? dave stein, lol. And think of this Ruth can get on the mount and strike out the side of team 1 at any given moment. Can anyone from team 1 do that to team 4? No!
It's understandable why team 4 is running away with this.

[VeedonFleece]

the problem is after big train you have who? dave stein, lol. And think of this Ruth can get on the mount and strike out the side of team 1 at any given moment. Can anyone from team 1 do that to team 4? No!
It's understandable why team 4 is running away with this.

You make a great point. Did you apply the same logic when you voted for the team with Adam Dunn in the bullpen?

[fungi2510]

the problem is after big train you have who? dave stein, lol. And think of this Ruth can get on the mount and strike out the side of team 1 at any given moment. Can anyone from team 1 do that to team 4? No!
It's understandable why team 4 is running away with this.

How is Dave Steib a lol? Compare him to Cole Hamels, and I think you are very shortsighted to dismiss him. He made 7 All-Star appearances, lifetime WAR of 57. Hamels is at 40. I know he pitched 6 more years, but I don't see how Hamels will blow Steib out of the water. From 1982-1984, Steib was #1 pitcher in all of baseball according to WAR. If you don't like that stat, from 1982-1984 he also was Top 3 in baseball in WHIP and ERA.

These reasons are some of the reasons, I hate that the poll is so public. Uninformed decisions.

[Skipscards]

the problem is after big train you have who? dave stein, lol. And think of this Ruth can get on the mount and strike out the side of team 1 at any given moment. Can anyone from team 1 do that to team 4? No!
It's understandable why team 4 is running away with this.

Team #4 decided to use as a hitter not a pitcher. That's up to them.

You make a great point. Did you apply the same logic when you voted for the team with Adam Dunn in the bullpen?

Now that's a lol.

How is Dave Steib a lol? Compare him to Cole Hamels, and I think you are very shortsighted to dismiss him. He made 7 All-Star appearances, lifetime WAR of 57. Hamels is at 40. I know he pitched 6 more years, but I don't see how Hamels will blow Steib out of the water. From 1982-1984, Steib was #1 pitcher in all of baseball according to WAR. If you don't like that stat, from 1982-1984 he also was Top 3 in baseball in WHIP and ERA.

These reasons are some of the reasons, I hate that the poll is so public. Uninformed decisions.

All great points. And on top of that we have Dennis Martinez, Kenny Rogers, and Rick Sutcliffe. All three are as good or better than Coveleski-Cain-Mathews.

Also Team 1's offense is slightly better:

Simmons > Posada
Boog = Clark
Morgan > Red
Perez >> Ventura
Trammell > Nomar
Raines > Clarke
Ashburn < Gwynn
Kaline <<< Ruth

[hofcollector2]

You make a great point. Did you apply the same logic when you voted for the team with Adam Dunn in the bullpen?
No I voted for that team with the assumption that it was a misprint and I threw Dunn completely off that team which to me still made the team better. Either way Dunn hitting or pitching is no babe Ruth!
How is Dave Steib a lol? Compare him to Cole Hamels, and I think you are very shortsighted to dismiss him. He made 7 All-Star appearances, lifetime WAR of 57. Hamels is at 40. I know he pitched 6 more years, but I don't see how Hamels will blow Steib out of the water. From 1982-1984, Steib was #1 pitcher in all of baseball according to WAR. If you don't like that stat, from 1982-1984 he also was Top 3 in baseball in WHIP and ERA.

These reasons are some of the reasons, I hate that the poll is so public. Uninformed decisions.
I still give Hamels a better shot against number 1s line up verses Dave stein against Gwynn and Ruth

Team #4 decided to use as a hitter not a pitcher. That's up to them.



Now that's a lol.



All great points. And on top of that we have Dennis Martinez, Kenny Rogers, and Rick Sutcliffe. All three are as good or better than Coveleski-Cain-Mathews.

Also Team 1's offense is slightly better:

Simmons > Posada
Boog = Clark
Morgan > Red
Perez >> Ventura
Trammell > Nomar
Raines > Clarke
Ashburn < Gwynn
Kaline <<< Ruth
I would go posada and Simmons as equal, also Trammell and Nomar are equal if we are assuming these guys at their peaks but the bottom line is


Ruth and Gwynn>>> entire team 1 line up

[VeedonFleece]

No I voted for that team with the assumption that it was a misprint and I threw Dunn completely off that team which to me still made the team better. Either way Dunn hitting or pitching is no babe Ruth!


If you don't count Dunn that team had a four man bullpen, one of whom was doubling up as the starting 2B. In addition, they had four 1B, three 2B (including the double-duty Ward,) no backup SS, and no backup C.

You're entitled to vote for whoever you want but your argument is flimsy. Obviously plenty of others were prepared to disregard all of the above too. At least you've attempted to justify your decision.

[hofcollector2]

If you don't count Dunn that team had a four man bullpen, one of whom was doubling up as the starting 2B. In addition, they had four 1B, three 2B (including the double-duty Ward,) no backup SS, and no backup C.

You're entitled to vote for whoever you want but your argument is flimsy. Obviously plenty of others were prepared to disregard all of the above too. At least you've attempted to justify your decision.

And that rotation could not run on a 4 man bull pen? With #7 poll you only had 2 team in it, team 3 and 4. your quick to point out team 3 faults when team 4 has plenty. Who's team 4 back up catcher? Oh and Joe Mauer is the main catcher who is injury prone, lol, Adrian Gonzales who's injury prone is playing first and guess who his back up is, lol, mister injury prone Ryan howard. Then you have you second started Stephen strasburn whom is injury prone, are they even gonna have a team in half a year? and we are just getting started. I still take team 3

[VeedonFleece]

I didn't vote, partly due to being suspended, but for the reasons outlined above I wouldn't have taken team 3 OR 4. I said twice I would have gone for team 2. I have a feeling that team 4 received some tactical votes in order to stop team 3 prevailing.

I'm with you on the bullpen to an extent though. My team only had a 5-man bullpen. You didn't vote for them either!

[atoaz12]

.

Also Team 1's offense is slightly better:

Simmons > Posada
Boog = Clark
Morgan > Red
Perez >> Ventura
Trammell > Nomar
Raines > Clarke
Ashburn < Gwynn
Kaline <<< Ruth

Team 3's offense is better than both :)!
So much steroid hate haha

[Skipscards]

No I voted for that team with the assumption that it was a misprint and I threw Dunn completely off that team which to me still made the team better. Either way Dunn hitting or pitching is no babe Ruth!

I still give Hamels a better shot against number 1s line up verses Dave stein against Gwynn and Ruth


I would go posada and Simmons as equal, also Trammell and Nomar are equal if we are assuming these guys at their peaks but the bottom line is


Ruth and Gwynn>>> entire team 1 line up

Posada being equal to Simmons is reasonable. Trammell was definitively better than Nomar. As for Gwynn, while he gets the edge over Ashburn, compare him to Raines and it's a lot closer. In fact I'd even argue Raines = Gwynn.

Ruth is undoubtedly a force, but so is the Big Train.

And that rotation could not run on a 4 man bull pen?

No. It couldn't. Not when one of those 4 is Adam Dunn. With such a thin pen he will pitch.
And Kershaw and DeGrom in particular ain't completing a lot of games so the pen will be used a bunch.

Team 3's offense is better than both :)!
So much steroid hate haha

Well...you know my feeling on that one... ;-)

[Archangel1775]

And that rotation could not run on a 4 man bull pen? With #7 poll you only had 2 team in it, team 3 and 4. your quick to point out team 3 faults when team 4 has plenty. Who's team 4 back up catcher? Oh and Joe Mauer is the main catcher who is injury prone, lol, Adrian Gonzales who's injury prone is playing first and guess who his back up is, lol, mister injury prone Ryan howard. Then you have you second started Stephen strasburn whom is injury prone, are they even gonna have a team in half a year? and we are just getting started. I still take team 3

Allow me to answer these questions:

Who's team 4 back up catcher?
Craig Biggio (428 Games as a C) shifting Charlie Hustle to 2B and HOF Jud Wilson to 3B

Adrian Gonzales who's injury prone is playing first and guess who his back up is, lol, mister injury prone Ryan howard
Pete Rose (989 Games played at 1B) thus shifting Hall of Famer Jud Wilson to 3B


Stephen strasburn whom is injury prone Strasburg
Cy Young winner Bob Welch or Cy Young winner Jack McDowell with 4 others still filling relief roles

So based on your logic, Team 3 is hurting in the backup department.
It's ok I forgive you! Vote Team for the Giants :)

[Mattsurewood]

Anyone who thinks Hamels is better than Dave Stieb is just young and wasn't around in the 80s, period. It's like having Anthony Rizzo on the bench, or Gary Gaetti..people just don't know who Gaetti was..vote for who you want, but Based on "all time" stats, Team One would win this. Period. Alex Cobb, or Rick Sutcliffe? Come on now.

[Mattsurewood]

No I voted for that team with the assumption that it was a misprint and I threw Dunn completely off that team which to me still made the team better. Either way Dunn hitting or pitching is no babe Ruth!

I still give Hamels a better shot against number 1s line up verses Dave stein against Gwynn and Ruth


I would go posada and Simmons as equal, also Trammell and Nomar are equal if we are assuming these guys at their peaks but the bottom line is


Ruth and Gwynn>>> entire team 1 line up


Gwynn better than Joe Morgan/Kaline..sober up.

[Mattsurewood]

Apologies for my comments/rant. I need to keep in mind this is a card collecting site. I shouldn't expect people to know who some of the players on Team 1 even played for or when they played.

[Skipscards]

7ish hours remain.

[hofcollector2]

Posada being equal to Simmons is reasonable. Trammell was definitively better than Nomar. As for Gwynn, while he gets the edge over Ashburn, compare him to Raines and it's a lot closer. In fact I'd even argue Raines = Gwynn.

Ruth is undoubtedly a force, but so is the Big Train.



No. It couldn't. Not when one of those 4 is Adam Dunn. With such a thin pen he will pitch.
And Kershaw and DeGrom in particular ain't completing a lot of games so the pen will be used a bunch.



Well...you know my feeling on that one... ;-)
Dunn was not part of the 4 man rotation, I would either throw him off team or make him a DH. I would keep Kershaw in to complete more games and we know what Cy Young can do. And as for the other stuff no way would I ever put Raines over Gwynn so we will never agree to that. I guess it's just a matter of preference.
Allow me to answer these questions:

Who's team 4 back up catcher?
Craig Biggio (428 Games as a C) shifting Charlie Hustle to 2B and HOF Jud Wilson to 3B

Adrian Gonzales who's injury prone is playing first and guess who his back up is, lol, mister injury prone Ryan howard
Pete Rose (989 Games played at 1B) thus shifting Hall of Famer Jud Wilson to 3B


Stephen strasburn whom is injury prone Strasburg
Cy Young winner Bob Welch or Cy Young winner Jack McDowell with 4 others still filling relief roles
With those 2 guys why the heck is Strasburg your second starter?
So based on your logic, Team 3 is hurting in the backup department.
It's ok I forgive you! Vote Team for the Giants :)
And good point but you still have 3 main guys whom are injury prone so even if you move those other players to their positions it's gonna catch up to you imo.
Anyone who thinks Hamels is better than Dave Stieb is just young and wasn't around in the 80s, period. It's like having Anthony Rizzo on the bench, or Gary Gaetti..people just don't know who Gaetti was..vote for who you want, but Based on "all time" stats, Team One would win this. Period. Alex Cobb, or Rick Sutcliffe? Come on now.
Reading comprehension is not your biggest quality I can see but I forgive you as sometimes it's not mine either, lol. No one said Hamels was better, I said Hamels would fair better again team 1s line up than Dave Steib would against team 4 line up and I still stand by that.

Gwynn better than Joe Morgan/Kaline..sober up.

Sober up? look who in your damn avatar, lol.
Guys this is suppose to be fun and I admit the discussion have been good and I've actually learned some good knowledge but these are just polls. I really dint dissect ever player to each person in every poll, I just skimmed thru them and picked whom I thought was better. No one should be upset I was not and appreciate the arguments for the other teams.
The thing is at least for this poll 32 other people agree with my choice and maybe not for the same reasons but undoubtedly team 4 has ran away with it. Ruth really does make a difference..

[Skipscards]

Dunn was not part of the 4 man rotation, I would either throw him off team or make him a DH. I would keep Kershaw in to complete more games and we know what Cy Young can do. And as for the other stuff no way would I ever put Raines over Gwynn so we will never agree to that. I guess it's just a matter of preference.


I get what you would do with the team, but that is not what the owner of the team decided to do. They decided Adam Dunn would be on the team, would not DH, and would pitch out of the bullpen as a reliever.

As for Kershaw, you can say you are going to keep him in more games but the reality is he has completed only 8% of his games. Make him complete more games and his arm will probably fall off.

On Raines vs Gwynn, you are correct it is a matter of preference. But I never said Raines was better than Gwynn, I said equal. But most people underestimate Raines who was the 2nd greatest leadoff hitter in history. Trouble is, he played at the same time as the greatest leadoff hitter in history.

[hofcollector2]

I get what you would do with the team, but that is not what the owner of the team decided to do. They decided Adam Dunn would be on the team, would not DH, and would pitch out of the bullpen as a reliever.

As for Kershaw, you can say you are going to keep him in more games but the reality is he has completed only 8% of his games. Make him complete more games and his arm will probably fall off.

On Raines vs Gwynn, you are correct it is a matter of preference. But I never said Raines was better than Gwynn, I said equal. But most people underestimate Raines who was the 2nd greatest leadoff hitter in history. Trouble is, he played at the same time as the greatest leadoff hitter in history.

Very true as I'm one that does not give Raines enough credit, the more and more I look into numbers and or learn about Raines the more I understand why people defend him and or suggest he is better than most people precieve. I'm starting to respect his game more.

[Mattsurewood]

Dunn was not part of the 4 man rotation, I would either throw him off team or make him a DH. I would keep Kershaw in to complete more games and we know what Cy Young can do. And as for the other stuff no way would I ever put Raines over Gwynn so we will never agree to that. I guess it's just a matter of preference.

And good point but you still have 3 main guys whom are injury prone so even if you move those other to their positions it's gonna catch up to you imo.

Reading comprehension is not your biggest quality I can see but I forgive you as sometimes it's not mine either, lol. No one said Hamels was better, I said Hamels would fair better again team 1s line up than Dave Steib would against team 4 line up and I still stand by that.



Sober up look who in your damn avatar, lol.
Guys this is suppose to be fun and I admit the discussion have been good and I've actually learned some good knowledge but these are just polls. I really dint dissect ever player to each person in every poll, I just skimmed thru them and picked whom I thought was better. No one should be upset I was not and appreciate the arguments for the other teams.
The thing is at least for this poll 32 other people agree with my choice and maybe not for the same reasons but undoubtedly team 4 has ran away with it. Ruth really does make a difference..

Touché on the avatar. I hear ya. The draft was fun, and I didn't mean it as a personal attack on you..it's just disappointing to watch the results here. I respect what the folks who chose team 4 voted for, even though on paper Team one is the better overall team. I strongly disagree with your Hamels points, as I have seen both him and Stieb in person, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. My reading comprehension is in good shape, appreciate the jab though.

[hofcollector2]

Touché on the avatar. I hear ya. The draft was fun, and I didn't mean it as a personal attack on you..it's just disappointing to watch the results here. I respect what the folks who chose team 4 voted for, even though on paper Team one is the better overall team. I strongly disagree with your Hamels points, as I have seen both him and Stieb in person, but everyone's entitled to an opinion. My reading comprehension is in good shape, appreciate the jab though.

My apologies for the jab, and by the way I love that move so I have no problem with that avatar. One of the all time classics!

[Archangel1775]

Allow me to answer these questions:

Who's team 4 back up catcher?
Craig Biggio (428 Games as a C) shifting Charlie Hustle to 2B and HOF Jud Wilson to 3B

Adrian Gonzales who's injury prone is playing first and guess who his back up is, lol, mister injury prone Ryan howard
Pete Rose (989 Games played at 1B) thus shifting Hall of Famer Jud Wilson to 3B


Stephen strasburn whom is injury prone Strasburg
Cy Young winner Bob Welch or Cy Young winner Jack McDowell with 4 others still filling relief roles

So based on your logic, Team 3 is hurting in the backup department.
It's ok I forgive you! Vote Team for the Giants :)


And good point but you still have 3 main guys whom are injury prone so even if you move those other players to their positions it's gonna catch up to you imo.



I suppose we can do a minor league draft since injuries in an All Time Fantasy Draft are unbelievably important. I'll start..........

With the first pick of the All Time Minor League Draft.....the San Francisco Giants select

[1,1] San Francisco Giants: Kris Bryant (3B) :)

[Skipscards]

Congrats to team #4!

[hofcollector2]

I suppose we can do a minor league draft since injuries in an All Time Fantasy Draft are unbelievably important. I'll start..........

With the first pick of the All Time Minor League Draft.....the San Francisco Giants select

[1,1] San Francisco Giants: Kris Bryant (3B) :)

Team 4 won, too late my friend!

[Archangel1775]

In addition, Adrian Gonzalez has played in 156 Games or more per season since he went full time in 2006, 570+ at bats and 100RBI's the vast majority of those seasons.....I'm not sure where you are getting this injury prone thing from.