Upper Deck just took the lead in worst customer service

[allabtsprt]

Maybe it's just me expecting too much. I'm just getting tired of shelling out big money for basically nothing. And it seems like the card manufacturers are getting worse about this thing called customer service, or as Upper Deck calls it "customer care". I feel like I was bamboozled on this deal or at least mislead to say the least. I will say that this was a first for me as I never have bought retail before. Anyway, here is my story beginning with my first e-mail to UD and their replies. Scroll down to the bottom and read up.

Hi Mark,


We would be unable to assist with this issue. This is a retail product and this is a ratio. We do not guarantee autographs in this product. The following description you provided in regards to assisting with missing or damaged products with ratio discrepancies is a case by case basis. It’s up to the Customer Service Department if they would like to assist with any issue as a onetime courtesy. We have not assisted with this issue with customers in the past and will not assist with this issue presently. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Thanks,

Upper Deck Customer Care
UpperDeckStore.com
T 800.873.7332 F 760.929.3142
QA@UpperDeck.com
Upper Deck Co- 2251 Rutherford Rd. Carlsbad, CA 92008




From: allabtsprt@aol.com [mailto:allabtsprt@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 6:24 PM
To: QA
Subject: Re: Please help with case shortages

Could you then please explain the excerpt below taken directly from upperdeck.com under FAQ's? No where does it differentiate between hobby and retail. This can be construed as false and misleading. Looking forward to your answer.

Thanks again,
Mark

I expected to get a certain number of insert cards out of the box/case because of the posted insert ratios, but fell short. What should I do?
The Upper Deck Company utilizes random sequencing in the packaging of its trading cards. For our insert cards, we indicate the probability of obtaining an insert card within a pre-determined number of foil packs or boxes. The stated odds reflect an average of the entire production run and this ratio is not guaranteed to exist within an individual box or case.
However, we understand the investment you make by purchasing products at a box or case level and we do want to support you. If you have an issue like this, please email your name, address and phone number to QA@upperdeck.com, and we’ll set up a case for you. Please note, we are only able to help with damaged cards if they are purchased from one of our Certified Diamond Dealers. Once you have a case number, we will need you to send in your receipt & UPC codes.


-----Original Message-----
From: QA <QA@upperdeck.com>
To: allabtsprt <allabtsprt@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 31, 2015 10:34 am
Subject: RE: Please help with case shortages

Hi Mark,


We apologize for the typo. The odds are a ratio it is not a guarantee that you will receive an insert in retail product.


Thanks,
cid:1.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Upper Deck Customer Care
UpperDeckStore.com
T 800.873.7332 F 760.929.3142
QA@UpperDeck.com
Upper Deck Co- 2251 Rutherford Rd. Carlsbad, CA 92008
cid:2.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
cid:3.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
cid:4.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com



From: allabtsprt@aol.com [mailto:allabtsprt@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 7:33 PM
To: QA
Subject: Re: Please help with case shortages

Wow, this is not the cold response I expected as a long time customer of Upper Deck. So, basically what you are saying is that you don't guarantee inserts in retail products even though the odds are clearly printed on the boxes and packs? To the average person, this would appear to be deception and open retail at your own risk. By the way, my name is Mark not Mike.

Sincerely,
MARK Fiscus

-----Original Message-----
From: QA <QA@upperdeck.com>
To: allabtsprt <allabtsprt@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 30, 2015 6:49 pm
Subject: RE: Please help with case shortages
Hi Mike,

Unfortunately this is an average. We do not guarantee inserts in retail products. We apologize but we would not be able to assist with missing autos from this product.

Thanks,
cid:1.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
Upper Deck Customer Care
UpperDeckStore.com
T 800.873.7332 F 760.929.3142
QA@UpperDeck.com
Upper Deck Co- 2251 Rutherford Rd. Carlsbad, CA 92008
cid:2.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
cid:3.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com
cid:4.3883110985@web114412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com




From: allabtsprt@aol.com [mailto:allabtsprt@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 4:08 PM
To: QA
Subject: Please help with case shortages

Hello,

On 3-28-15, I purchased a sealed case of 2014-15 NCAA March Madness Basketball from Redman's Dugout in Glasgow, KY.. There are 20 blaster boxes in a sealed case, each with 12 packs for a total of 240 packs. The odds of pulling an autograph card as stated on the box is 1 in 24 packs or about 10 autos per case. The sole reason I purchased this case was with the hopes of pulling the autographs. I had already purchased a few hobby boxes which were much more costly and only provided two autos per box, so the retail case seemed like a much better deal to get some autos. Much to my dismay, I only pulled 4 autos out of the entire case or roughly 1 auto in every 60 packs. I do understand your stance that the stated odds only reflect an average, however I feel in my case that my odds were way less than the average. I also was interested in completing the base set with this case and with the previous hobby boxes I had opened. That didn't happen either. I am still 4 cards short but received 11-12 copies of multiple cards in the case. Sometimes pack after pack of the same cards.

I am a 35 year collector of sports cards who is fortunate enough to spend $600-$800 a week on cards which the above dealer can attest to. I only ask for a fair shake. When a box is short a hit or two, which is often the case, I always keep my mouth shut and write it off as the "odds". In this case though, I feel the shortage is much more than what can be reasonably expected. I would truly appreciate it if you could help me feel better about continuing to purchase your products by replacing the missing cards. I am not a gold digger and any autographs would be fine. I will list the 4 autos I pulled so they hopefully won't be duplicated:

BL-1 Bill Laimbeer
PY-1 Patrick Young
SE-1 Sean Elliott
ST-1 Stacey Augmon

I have saved the entire case, boxes and packs for your reference. Thank you very much for your time and consideration!

[rynobot]

I once had a Dr. J card from 2011 Ultimate Collection. You only get one autograph per box/pack and this was suppose to be the one. I saw the back of the card first and was really excited to pull a nice autograph. When I flipped it over the card was unsigned and without serial number. I mailed it back to them with a letter. I never heard back from them and it has been 3 years.

[JMarchand1981]

Wow. Upper deck just told you to pound sand. Their customer service is awful. That is One of the reasons why I do not buy the trash they release.

[minnesotachill]

Is this an April Fools joke?

[kobemagee29]

Wow. Upper deck just told you to pound sand. Their customer service is awful. That is One of the reasons why I do not buy the trash they release.

Maybe UD should start putting reward points in

[JMarchand1981]

Maybe UD should start putting reward points in

Don't forget over charging anything involved in the reward points program. Oh, and making people pay for shipping on anything from the rewards program.

Moreover, panini often times doesn't even respond to customer inquiries. However, this op was served by upper deck, not panini.

[xavieronly1]

I suggest you buy another 100 cases to show UD that the "1:24" ratio is understated.

1 case is too small for the sample size.

[JMarchand1981]

I suggest you buy another 100 cases to show UD that the "1:24" ratio is understated.

1 case is too small for the sample size.

This right here.

That case could be considered an outlier. Statistically irrelevant if proven to be.

[hearseguy]

They have been in the lead for quit a while for the worst customer service.

[trixstar]

I mean I don't know what you expected from a retail product. Sorry you feel shorted but I don't think they did anything wrong. Pack odds are never guaranteed and have never been guaranteed in retail products.

[xavieronly1]

By binomial distribution using 240 packs with 1/24 auto ratio, here is your result.

A case that yells 4 auto is 1.76697%. (that is, it would happen once for every 56.594 case).

Another observation. The odds of having 7 or less autos in a case is 21.46%.

Have fun!

Auto Percentage
0 0.00367%
1 0.03829%
2 0.19892%
3 0.68603%
4 1.76697%
5 3.62553%
6 6.17287%
7 8.97026%
8 11.35718%
9 12.72670%
10 12.77989%
11 11.61615%
12 9.63642%
13 7.34695%
14 5.17851%
15 3.39173%
16 2.07340%
17 1.18763%
18 0.63961%
19 0.32487%
20 0.15605%

[organika]

Sorry for you....panini is not that great to some people but they still take care of you somehow. Despite a failing business and a well known reputation for providing collectors grief, UD will always be the worst. You should have seen them mid 2012 when they started to replace outstanding redemptions and just sent us crap to clear the list....

My Magic/Jabbar became Donte Greene and Mike James

[jj2]

By binomial distribution using 240 packs with 1/24 auto ratio, here is your result.

A case that yells 4 auto is 1.76697%. (that is, it would happen once for every 56.594 case).

Another observation. The odds of having 7 or less autos in a case is 21.46%.

Have fun!

Auto Percentage
0 0.00367%
1 0.03829%
2 0.19892%
3 0.68603%
4 1.76697%
5 3.62553%
6 6.17287%
7 8.97026%
8 11.35718%
9 12.72670%
10 12.77989%
11 11.61615%
12 9.63642%
13 7.34695%
14 5.17851%
15 3.39173%
16 2.07340%
17 1.18763%
18 0.63961%
19 0.32487%
20 0.15605%

Binomial distribution is not a term I ever thought I would see on BO. Well done, Sir.

[dasiegel]

Still don't understand with the internet why anyone buys retail. That being said UD sucks and I don't buy any of their unlicensed garbage. Sorry for your luck OP.

[brentus777]

The big issue I guess is who keeps the card companies honest, while I agree on average over a run is inserted into packs, but who actually knows the print run numbers? And who regulates whether or not some autos are inserted or even signed for that matter... It's a take your money "trust us" thing going on

[NickM]

Based on everything I have seen, UD never even inserted autos into retail blasters of World of Sports, despite stated odds that should have had two per box.
Putting hits in retail doesn't help their mission to have you do favors for card shops to be allowed to buy their product.

[tristan20]

This has to be an April fool joke, you really think odds for any product is true?

Doesn't matter if you buy 100 boxes and still get crap, its just your bad luck. Can't blame a company for that.

[Yoshi]

Hi,

If I am wrong please correct me. But I always thought that retail and hobby were know to most collector's to have differences with what ratio items could be pulled.

How Hobby Boxes Differ From Retail Boxes (http://sportscards.about.com/od/collectingbasics/i/hobbyvsretail.htm)

Also I would have thought that nearly all collector's know if you are buying low-mid range product there is always that "on average" risk. eg. Just because it says 1:24 packs and the box has 24 packs does not mean you will get one there could be 10 boxes with none then the 11th has 10 in it.

Now were you treated badly I would say yes, do they care no. They get 1000's of the same complaints and know that their product will continue to sell.

I have no idea what you normally buy or what your collection is like but for someone who is fortunate to spend $600-800 per week on a hobby why are you buying such cards and getting annoyed at the result. If you want the so called "guarantee" stick to the very high end and just buy the cards from lower sets. That said if you want to buy the low-mid stuff go for it but expect to get the same feeling millions of low-mid collectors get every day.

All I have to say now is Mark good luck with your collecting and remember you are in a far far better spot then other collector's and remember to enjoy the product you are opening.

Thanks Shane

[Nyfancam01]

UD is pathetic now... so damn CHEAP

[Archangel1775]

It's retail, it's a blaster box and they tend to suck.

[allabtsprt]

The big issue I guess is who keeps the card companies honest, while I agree on average over a run is inserted into packs, but who actually knows the print run numbers? And who regulates whether or not some autos are inserted or even signed for that matter... It's a take your money "trust us" thing going on

Exactly. It does make you wonder. After getting the response I got, it makes you wonder that maybe the true odds are 3 or 4 times greater than what is actually stated. As I said, this is the first time I ever bought retail and it won't happen again. I feel sorry for the poor souls who have little choice if they don't have a card shop near by or can't buy off the internet. I will say it has left a very bad taste in my mouth about the card industry. Also, I would have been fine if their FAQ's had been specific about retail. This is where I feel they were BS'ing me.

[allabtsprt]

Hi,

If I am wrong please correct me. But I always thought that retail and hobby were know to most collector's to have differences with what ratio items could be pulled.

How Hobby Boxes Differ From Retail Boxes (http://sportscards.about.com/od/collectingbasics/i/hobbyvsretail.htm)

Also I would have thought that nearly all collector's know if you are buying low-mid range product there is always that "on average" risk. eg. Just because it says 1:24 packs and the box has 24 packs does not mean you will get one there could be 10 boxes with none then the 11th has 10 in it.

Now were you treated badly I would say yes, do they care no. They get 1000's of the same complaints and know that their product will continue to sell.

I have no idea what you normally buy or what your collection is like but for someone who is fortunate to spend $600-800 per week on a hobby why are you buying such cards and getting annoyed at the result. If you want the so called "guarantee" stick to the very high end and just buy the cards from lower sets. That said if you want to buy the low-mid stuff go for it but expect to get the same feeling millions of low-mid collectors get every day.

All I have to say now is Mark good luck with your collecting and remember you are in a far far better spot then other collector's and remember to enjoy the product you are opening.

Thanks Shane

I am fully aware that there is a difference between retail and hobby. I just don't feel it was wrong of me to expect more than 4 autos when I should have gotten 10. I wouldn't have said a word if I had gotten 7 or 8.

[browning51]

they need to just go away, without the college deal now, what the hell are they going ot do. they need to give jordan and lebron up to Panini. Jordan in immaculate basketball, could you even fathom those prices?

[nickha2]

Any people wonder why others file false missing hits.

[browning51]

I am fully aware that there is a difference between retail and hobby. I just don't feel it was wrong of me to expect more than 4 autos when I should have gotten 10. I wouldn't have said a word if I had gotten 7 or 8.

I definately dont buy retail any more for this reason. I never buy them for the autos, chrome and prizm do come up with some good colors, but that is all they are really good for.

[jr24ai3]

If the dealer you purchased it from is a UD Diamond Dealer, he should be able to talk to someone at UD and take care of this for you. The shop owner telling UD that a customer who spends $600/week on product was shorted should get you something in return.

[sportscentury]

If you are having problems with anything Upper Deck-related, I would call Gabe Garcia at 760-529-3695. I have always found him quick to help with all concerns and issues.

[chezball]

they need to just go away, without the college deal now, what the hell are they going ot do. they need to give jordan and lebron up to Panini. Jordan in immaculate basketball, could you even fathom those prices?

UD just signed Jordan to a 15 year deal,it was announced at the summit.

[Bulls]

Lol. When I read the title of the thread I thought to myself who is bumping threads from 12 years ago.

[blastman]

I don't buy UD products anymore.

[allabtsprt]

If you are having problems with anything Upper Deck-related, I would call Gabe Garcia at 760-529-3695. I have always found him quick to help with all concerns and issues.

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.