for all you Panini supporters....

[SPauthentic84]

With the upcoming high end releases, just wanted to make sure you saw this thread

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/football/858157-panini-response-my-odell-beckham-nt-debacle.html

[adamt326]

Adding to the OP:

The backstory is that Odell Beckham RPAs as well as Teddy Bridgewater, Jarvis Landry, and possibly others were held back in a "2nd wave" of NT cases that can only be acquired by dealers in return for ordering other products like Spectra, etc.

National Treasures has been out for 6 days now and none of these players' RPAs have been hit by a board member, listed on ebay, or hit in any group breaks.

[Stackfan]

Doesn't surprise me.... Panini gives the breakers/blowout junk cases, while giving better boxes/cases to local card stores, to they can try and survive with the threat of cheaper online solutions.

Is it right... no... does it make sense to try and keep some LCS alive... yes.

[SPauthentic84]

Don't forget about flawless football

[alanlam]

Doesn't surprise me.... Panini gives the breakers/blowout junk cases, while giving better boxes/cases to local card stores, to they can try and survive with the threat of cheaper online solutions.

Is it right... no... does it make sense to try and keep some LCS alive... yes.

I'm not a Panini supporter, but this is just false. LCS owners get their cases/boxes from distributors. Not directly from Panini. The same distributors move product to the breakers as well.

I'm really curious to see if Panini has a statement on this. My guess would be no. Also, let's not forget, there were two waves to 2012-13 Immaculate. Maybe I have it backwards, but I remember the second wave being pretty bad compared to the first.

[smalltown]

I think it has more to do with trying to make deadlines than actually "allocating" specific players. OBJ was probably late returning signed cards or they were having a hard time nailing him down for a signing session. They probably started pack out while still waiting - hoping they could get him in without it being a redemption.

[dasiegel]

I'm not a Panini supporter, but this is just false. LCS owners get their cases/boxes from distributors. Not directly from Panini. The same distributors move product to the breakers as well.

I'm really curious to see if Panini has a statement on this. My guess would be no. Also, let's not forget, there were two waves to 2012-13 Immaculate. Maybe I have it backwards, but I remember the second wave being pretty bad compared to the first.

I think they should. This debacle isn't gonna go away. I've been contacted by several members about this and i don't even do football. i can't imagine what's going on in the fball section and the inquiries Panini is receiving. Remember the Alex Len situation, they had to respond to that, this is much worse.

[SPauthentic84]

I think it has more to do with trying to make deadlines than actually "allocating" specific players. OBJ was probably late returning signed cards or they were having a hard time nailing him down for a signing session. They probably started pack out while still waiting - hoping they could get him in without it being a redemption.

Did you even read the thread?

[smalltown]

Remember the Alex Len situation, they had to respond to that, this is much worse.

I don't think it's worse. Same maybe. Problem is they can just claim he sitting out there in boxes and no one has lucked out yet.

Did you even read the thread?

I read some of it early on yes. But frankly it was a lot of "i spent a lot of money and deserve a OBJ RPA" and not a lot of facts. I was one of the people in the Len breaks - Panini admitted there was an issue and "made it right" - although i would have rather pulled and RPA at least they acknowledge the issue. It appears that Panini did respond at least once:

Greetings, Dallas. Thanks for your email and for your support of our company and its products. While I can certainly understand your frustration with not hitting an Odell Beckham Jr. RPA in your break, I can confirm that redemption cards for those do exist and were packed out in the product.

In looking at the break results on the Blowout forums, it appears you did hit at least one Beckham Jersey Auto and had a chance at two hard-signed Pen Pals cards that featured Beckham. As you no doubt are aware, the Beckham RPAs are case-hit-level pulls and represent quite a small percentage of the overall product run.

Thanks again for your email.

Best regards,
Tracy

[SPauthentic84]

I don't think it's worse. Same maybe. Problem is they can just claim he sitting out there in boxes and no one has lucked out yet.



I read some of it early on yes. But frankly it was a lot of "i spent a lot of money and deserve a OBJ RPA" and not a lot of facts. I was one of the people in the Len breaks - Panini admitted there was an issue and "made it right" - although i would have rather pulled and RPA at least they acknowledge the issue. It appears that Panini did respond at least once:

Greetings, Dallas. Thanks for your email and for your support of our company and its products. While I can certainly understand your frustration with not hitting an Odell Beckham Jr. RPA in your break, I can confirm that redemption cards for those do exist and were packed out in the product.

In looking at the break results on the Blowout forums, it appears you did hit at least one Beckham Jersey Auto and had a chance at two hard-signed Pen Pals cards that featured Beckham. As you no doubt are aware, the Beckham RPAs are case-hit-level pulls and represent quite a small percentage of the overall product run.

Thanks again for your email.

Best regards,
Tracy

Nope, not what it was about. Read it then post your thoughts if you want to change your mind

[alanlam]

I don't think it's worse. Same maybe. Problem is they can just claim he sitting out there in boxes and no one has lucked out yet.



I read some of it early on yes. But frankly it was a lot of "i spent a lot of money and deserve a OBJ RPA" and not a lot of facts. I was one of the people in the Len breaks - Panini admitted there was an issue and "made it right" - although i would have rather pulled and RPA at least they acknowledge the issue. It appears that Panini did respond at least once:

Greetings, Dallas. Thanks for your email and for your support of our company and its products. While I can certainly understand your frustration with not hitting an Odell Beckham Jr. RPA in your break, I can confirm that redemption cards for those do exist and were packed out in the product.

In looking at the break results on the Blowout forums, it appears you did hit at least one Beckham Jersey Auto and had a chance at two hard-signed Pen Pals cards that featured Beckham. As you no doubt are aware, the Beckham RPAs are case-hit-level pulls and represent quite a small percentage of the overall product run.

Thanks again for your email.

Best regards,
Tracy
This has all been covered over in the FB section but I'll reiterate that the case hit part makes zero sense. He has the same RPA parallels as everyone else.

Back to the OP - I have been saving since the end of the 12-13 products for Immaculate cases. I missed the initial price point and was pretty turned off by the raised price/fewer boxes/ordering cases of other crap. So I passed.

I'm really glad I passed now. That's a lot of money to put on the line when there's a reasonable chance something like this happens with it.

[xavieronly1]

I don't think it's worse. Same maybe. Problem is they can just claim he sitting out there in boxes and no one has lucked out yet.



I read some of it early on yes. But frankly it was a lot of "i spent a lot of money and deserve a OBJ RPA" and not a lot of facts. I was one of the people in the Len breaks - Panini admitted there was an issue and "made it right" - although i would have rather pulled and RPA at least they acknowledge the issue. It appears that Panini did respond at least once:

Greetings, Dallas. Thanks for your email and for your support of our company and its products. While I can certainly understand your frustration with not hitting an Odell Beckham Jr. RPA in your break, I can confirm that redemption cards for those do exist and were packed out in the product.

In looking at the break results on the Blowout forums, it appears you did hit at least one Beckham Jersey Auto and had a chance at two hard-signed Pen Pals cards that featured Beckham. As you no doubt are aware, the Beckham RPAs are case-hit-level pulls and represent quite a small percentage of the overall product run.

Thanks again for your email.

Best regards,
Tracy

That is NOT what the football is about.

[ragingbull]

I wonder if they would do the same with Immaculate, NT or Flawless Basketball this year.. That would suck..

[xavieronly1]

I can easily tell that people start to keep the sealed NT boxes (1st wave) right now. Then 3 months later, they sell it like it is from the 2nd wave for much higher price.

[smalltown]

That is NOT what the football is about.

Could you give a brief synopsis? If i'm missing the point i'd really like to understand what it is. I don't really want to wade into the vitriol of that football thread again. I'm not trying to defend Panini, i've been effect by past problems as well - I'm just looking for some level headed discussion on the matter. Thanks.

[SPauthentic84]

Could you give a brief synopsis? If i'm missing the point i'd really like to understand what it is. I don't really want to wade into the vitriol of that football thread again. I'm not trying to defend Panini, i've been effect by past problems as well - I'm just looking for some level headed discussion on the matter. Thanks.

Do you usually just state your opinion without gathering all the facts or is this a one time thing?

[xavieronly1]

Could you give a brief synopsis? If i'm missing the point i'd really like to understand what it is. I don't really want to wade into the vitriol of that football thread again. I'm not trying to defend Panini, i've been effect by past problems as well - I'm just looking for some level headed discussion on the matter. Thanks.

Look at the OBJ redemption in ebay. Panini already anticipates the delay from OBJ. They have OBJ redemptions for Hats-off, Colossal.. etc. Just not RPA.

The odd of not having RPA in ebay/forum is far more than just got beat by the odds. One group break of 20 cases? Maybe just bad luck. 500+ cases broken already worldwide, and not even one person listing THE card in ebay for the first auction/BIN? That just does not make any sense.

And to say this is production error, one can tell that Panini just doesn't even learn from Alex Len's mistake. But wait a minute, this "mistake" only appears to the most hype rookie, not someone else. Weird, right?

If I tell you these 1st wave NT cases have no TB and OBJ RPA, would you still pay the full retail price?

[smalltown]

Look at the OBJ redemption in ebay. Panini already anticipates the delay from OBJ. They have OBJ redemptions for Hats-off, Colossal.. etc. Just not RPA.

The odd of not having RPA in ebay/forum is far more than just got beat by the odds. One group break of 20 cases? Maybe just bad luck. 500+ cases broken already worldwide, and not even one person listing THE card in ebay for the first auction/BIN? That just does not make any sense.

Thanks. I'm not disputing that Panini F'd up large. I think they did. I just don't think it was "evil" panini out to screw the customers as the football thread suggests. I go back to my original post in this thread:

I think it has more to do with trying to make deadlines than actually "allocating" specific players. OBJ was probably late returning signed cards or they were having a hard time nailing him down for a signing session. They probably started pack out while still waiting - hoping they could get him in without it being a redemption.

Still a F-up? Yes. 100%. But i don't think Panini was intentionally trying to screw people over.

[smalltown]

Do you usually just state your opinion without gathering all the facts or is this a one time thing?

It appears there were no facts that i missed. Appreciate the constructive post though. :)!

[AlabamaSlamma]

here are some numbers to put things in perspective. keep in mind, the starting point is the total number of cards on Panini's Excel NT checklist. We already know that a handful of these cards (someone in the FB thread mentioned that 5 players will not have any RPA issues) were not made, so if anything, my estimates are too low. this also assumes a uniform distribution across the whole product.

(a) Total # of cards on the NT checklist = 145,174
(b) Total # of Teddy/OBJ NT RPAs ((99 + 25 + 10 + 5 + 1)*2) + 13 + 5 = 298
(c) Odds of hitting an OBJ/Teddy RPA = (b) / (a) = 298/145,174 = 0.21% (or about 1 in 500 cards)

so to use Houdini's 20 case break as an example:

(1) # cases opened = 20
(2) # cards/case = 32
(3) # cards pulled = (1) * (2) = 640
(4) Projected OBJ/Teddy pulls = (c) * (3) = 0.21% * 640 = approx. 1.3

If you estimate 500 cases to be opened in the first week of release (just over 10% of the total potential print run given the information available on the NT checklist), it pushes the result of (4) up to approximately 32.8.

[xavieronly1]

Thanks. I'm not disputing that Panini F'd up large. I think they did. I just don't think it was "evil" panini out to screw the customers as the football thread suggests. I go back to my original post in this thread:



Still a F-up? Yes. 100%. But i don't think Panini was intentionally trying to screw people over.

The intention is to sell more 2nd wave with OBJ RPA sitting in the warehouse. This leads to no OBJ RPA in the 1st wave, and this 1st wave is what screwing people who pre-order cases at full retail price and not knowing they have ZERO chance for OBJ RPA.

Got it? I think you have a hard time to digest information, and just rush to post.

[440shane]

here are some numbers to put things in perspective. keep in mind, the starting point is the total number of cards on Panini's Excel NT checklist. We already know that a handful of these cards (someone in the FB thread mentioned that 5 players will not have any RPA issues) were not made, so if anything, my estimates are too low. this also assumes a uniform distribution across the whole product.

(a) Total # of cards on the NT checklist = 145,174
(b) Total # of Teddy/OBJ NT RPAs ((99 + 25 + 10 + 5 + 1)*2) + 13 + 5 = 298
(c) Odds of hitting an OBJ/Teddy RPA = (b) / (a) = 298/145,174 = 0.21% (or about 1 in 500 cards)

so to use Houdini's 20 case break as an example:

(1) # cases opened = 20
(2) # cards/case = 32
(3) # cards pulled = (1) * (2) = 640
(4) Projected OBJ/Teddy pulls = (c) * (3) = 0.21% * 640 = approx. 1.3

If you estimate 500 cases to be opened in the first week of release (just over 10% of the total potential print run given the information available on the NT checklist), it pushes the result of (4) up to approximately 32.8.

And I thought Joe was the school teacher?

:coffee:

[trixstar]

Thanks. I'm not disputing that Panini F'd up large. I think they did. I just don't think it was "evil" panini out to screw the customers as the football thread suggests. I go back to my original post in this thread:



Still a F-up? Yes. 100%. But i don't think Panini was intentionally trying to screw people over.

Maybe, but it's awfully fishy that they are going to force distributors to buy cases of unsold product to get any cases of the second wave of NT football. Panini did not sell all of their NT to start with, now we find out the main RPA's of the 2 hottest sellers are not showing up in wave one.

[oldgoldy97]

So no Wiggins in early NT breaks? That's going to suck. Hopefully it drives the box prices down.

[DALLASTILL]

This is an atrocity of epic proportions and we are the ones penalized for it. There are no legitimate excuses, please don't try to come up with one. I was the OP from the 20 case break with Houdini in which I had the Giants. I took some backlash for "whining"...which wasn't the purpose in creating the thread. Busting packs/boxes/cases for multiple years we all have a good idea when something isn't right and my apprehension at the time has been confirmed. There are live cards other than the RPA and it's parallels in addition to redemption cards for other Beckham inserts and parallels but not the RPA. Same with Bridgewater. I think what is getting lost in this also is that they did not put any of the Booklets of OBJ or Brigewater in this wave. It could happen to any of us collectors and I don't want that to be the case. Make noise and make some type of stance or it could be you missing out on the Wiggins RAP in your immaculate breaks, the Bryant autos in your national treasures baseball cases. Enough time and data has been gathered in multiple capacities to see that all of us were "fleeced".

[smalltown]

Got it? I think you have a hard time to digest information, and just rush to post.

Serious question, slightly off topic. Why do you feel the need to insult and shout down anyone who disagrees with your opinion? It happens in almost every thread you are apart of.

[xavieronly1]

Serious question, slightly off topic. Why do you feel the need to insult and shout down anyone who disagrees with your opinion? It happens in almost every thread you are apart of.

If your opinion is good and actually makes sense, it wouldn't got shut down or got insulted.

[smalltown]

If your opinion is good and actually makes sense, it wouldn't got shut down or got insulted.

I'm not just talking this thread or my opinions. You know this. Anyways. Go on. Do what you do. I was just curious why you seem incapable of a civil discussion.

My opinion stands. Spout what you must about it.

"I think Panini F'd up large. I don't think it was done intentionally however. I feel for those who were affected and I hope Panini steps up and clarifies things."

[trixstar]

I'm not just talking this thread or my opinions. You know this. Anyways. Go on. Do what you do. I was just curious why you seem incapable of a civil discussion.

My opinion stands. Spout what you must about it.

"I think Panini F'd up large. I don't think it was done intentionally however. I feel for those who were affected and I hope Panini steps up and clarifies things."

I'm fine with having a civil discussion and don't want this to be any more sinister than an honest mistake. If you really think that this wasnt done intentionally then what in your opinion happened? We've already seen the Teddy Bridgewater cards signed and we've only seen 1 photo of a Beckham RPA unsigned. Beckham has sticker autos in this product but no true rookie RPA. If the redemption's of these 2 players were inserted one would have surfaced by now. Do you think the redemption's were inserted but no one has pulled one yet? Do you think they were inserted and are sitting in a warehouse somewhere unsold to distributors yet? Do you think they were mistakenly not inserted at all? I'm genuinely curious what people (who think Panini made a mistake) think that mistake is.

[smalltown]

I'm fine with having a civil discussion and don't want this to be any more sinister than an honest mistake. If you really think that this wasnt done intentionally then what in your opinion happened? We've already seen the Teddy Bridgewater cards signed and we've only seen 1 photo of a Beckham RPA unsigned. Beckham has sticker autos in this product but no true rookie RPA. If the redemption's of these 2 players were inserted one would have surfaced by now. Do you think the redemption's were inserted but no one has pulled one yet? Do you think they were inserted and are sitting in a warehouse somewhere unsold to distributors yet? Do you think they were mistakenly not inserted at all? I'm genuinely curious what people (who think Panini made a mistake) think that mistake is.

I stated this in one of my earlier posts.

I think it has more to do with trying to make deadlines than actually "allocating" specific players. OBJ was probably late returning signed cards or they were having a hard time nailing him down for a signing session. They probably started pack out while still waiting - hoping they could get him in without it being a redemption.

Maybe they were shipping off cases while still trying to decide wether to wait to insert the signed RPAs or the Redemptions. I really don't know. I'll i'm saying is that there are scenarios where they aren't "intentionally screwing" customers.

We know Panini has screwed up in the past and has admitted such - so why is it hard for people to believe that this isn't just another screw up. My main point of contention isn't what happened. But rather, if it was intentional or not.

[xavieronly1]

Maybe they were shipping off cases while still trying to decide wether to wait to insert the signed RPAs or the Redemptions. I really don't know. I'll i'm saying is that there are scenarios where they aren't "intentionally screwing" customers.

We know Panini has screwed up in the past and has admitted such - so why is it hard for people to believe that this isn't just another screw up. My main point of contention isn't what happened. But rather, if it was intentional or not.

If what you said is correct, there should be at least one live RPA or redemption sitting in ebay. The fact is that, there is none.

I would only agree the Alex Len situation is a screw up. I wouldn't agree with Flawless retail patch as screw up. And this one is not a screw up.

[adamt326]

And I thought Joe was the school teacher?

:coffee:

To be fair, we usually say "school teacher" when we talk about Joe.

Hi, Joe!

[smalltown]

If what you said is correct, there should be at least one live RPA or redemption sitting in ebay.

Why should there be at least one. If a portion of the shippement was sent out while they were still packing and before they decided what to do with the OBJs there would be none until the cases where that decision was made were distributed and cracked.

Yes this still creates "waves", but again i don't think it was done to intentionally screw anyone over.

[xavieronly1]

Why should there be at least one. If a portion of the shippement was sent out while they were still packing and before they decided what to do with the OBJs there would be none until the cases where that decision was made were distributed and cracked.

Yes this still creates "waves", but again i don't think it was done to intentionally screw anyone over.

And what is not screw people over? You pay full retail because the chance of OBJ. Now? ZERO chance.

That is not intentional or what?

[BoJackCards]

here are some numbers to put things in perspective. keep in mind, the starting point is the total number of cards on Panini's Excel NT checklist. We already know that a handful of these cards (someone in the FB thread mentioned that 5 players will not have any RPA issues) were not made, so if anything, my estimates are too low. this also assumes a uniform distribution across the whole product.

(a) Total # of cards on the NT checklist = 145,174
(b) Total # of Teddy/OBJ NT RPAs ((99 + 25 + 10 + 5 + 1)*2) + 13 + 5 = 298
(c) Odds of hitting an OBJ/Teddy RPA = (b) / (a) = 298/145,174 = 0.21% (or about 1 in 500 cards)

so to use Houdini's 20 case break as an example:

(1) # cases opened = 20
(2) # cards/case = 32
(3) # cards pulled = (1) * (2) = 640
(4) Projected OBJ/Teddy pulls = (c) * (3) = 0.21% * 640 = approx. 1.3

If you estimate 500 cases to be opened in the first week of release (just over 10% of the total potential print run given the information available on the NT checklist), it pushes the result of (4) up to approximately 32.8.

Whoa. Whoa. When did math become a part of "collecting". I need a nap after reading that. Well done sir.

[thenatural23]

Let's not forget about the instance in 2010 with Panini Certified Football... The hit of the product back then was the Mirror Black 1/1 Logoshield of Sam Bradford. If anyone recalls, this card was never packed out and was actually given as a redemption replacement (the person who received it had a number of VERY highend outstanding redemptions).

[nera20]

until people stop buying products Panini could care less

[gomiamigo]

here are some numbers to put things in perspective. keep in mind, the starting point is the total number of cards on Panini's Excel NT checklist. We already know that a handful of these cards (someone in the FB thread mentioned that 5 players will not have any RPA issues) were not made, so if anything, my estimates are too low. this also assumes a uniform distribution across the whole product.

(a) Total # of cards on the NT checklist = 145,174
(b) Total # of Teddy/OBJ NT RPAs ((99 + 25 + 10 + 5 + 1)*2) + 13 + 5 = 298
(c) Odds of hitting an OBJ/Teddy RPA = (b) / (a) = 298/145,174 = 0.21% (or about 1 in 500 cards)

so to use Houdini's 20 case break as an example:

(1) # cases opened = 20
(2) # cards/case = 32
(3) # cards pulled = (1) * (2) = 640
(4) Projected OBJ/Teddy pulls = (c) * (3) = 0.21% * 640 = approx. 1.3

If you estimate 500 cases to be opened in the first week of release (just over 10% of the total potential print run given the information available on the NT checklist), it pushes the result of (4) up to approximately 32.8.

winner

/end thread

[whodatbeastly16]

winner

/end thread

I +1 this. The facts are there.

[440shane]

I stated this in one of my earlier posts.



Maybe they were shipping off cases while still trying to decide wether to wait to insert the signed RPAs or the Redemptions. I really don't know. I'll i'm saying is that there are scenarios where they aren't "intentionally screwing" customers.

We know Panini has screwed up in the past and has admitted such - so why is it hard for people to believe that this isn't just another screw up. My main point of contention isn't what happened. But rather, if it was intentional or not.

And that, right there, is the huge problem. Its one thing to screw up QC in Panini or Hoops/Score but to screw up AGAIN with another one of your 3 flagship products that you (Panini) hype the crap out of all year with teaser galleries and blog posts to get everyone to pre-order and then you pull or "forget" to pack out the 2 biggest hits in the product? Nah....

[jj2]

This is an atrocity of epic proportions and we are the ones penalized for it. There are no legitimate excuses, please don't try to come up with one. I was the OP from the 20 case break with Houdini in which I had the Giants. I took some backlash for "whining"...which wasn't the purpose in creating the thread. Busting packs/boxes/cases for multiple years we all have a good idea when something isn't right and my apprehension at the time has been confirmed. There are live cards other than the RPA and it's parallels in addition to redemption cards for other Beckham inserts and parallels but not the RPA. Same with Bridgewater. I think what is getting lost in this also is that they did not put any of the Booklets of OBJ or Brigewater in this wave. It could happen to any of us collectors and I don't want that to be the case. Make noise and make some type of stance or it could be you missing out on the Wiggins RAP in your immaculate breaks, the Bryant autos in your national treasures baseball cases. Enough time and data has been gathered in multiple capacities to see that all of us were "fleeced".

This might be a lot of things but an "atrocity" is definitely not one of them.

[SPauthentic84]

This might be a lot of things but an "atrocity" is definitely not one of them.

In terms of sports cards, its up there.

In terms of real life, nothing with sports cards is an atrocity

[whodatbeastly16]

In terms of sports cards, its up there.

In terms of real life, nothing with sports cards is an atrocity
Unless you get scammed out of thousands of dollars by a company, that's a pretty horrible thing.

[SteveO21]

Don't you guys get bored with these threads? They're the same thing over and over again.

[SPauthentic84]

Don't you guys get bored with these threads? They're the same thing over and over again.

lol not really. I really only enjoy panini bashing and older stuff show off threads if were being honest

[trixstar]

This might be a lot of things but an "atrocity" is definitely not one of them.

Not in the real world but in the sports collecting community it's pretty high up there.

[AlabamaSlamma]

Don't you guys get bored with these threads? They're the same thing over and over again.

and therein lies the issue.

[SPauthentic84]

Not in the real world but in the sports collecting community it's pretty high up there.

who would have thought a niner and a seahawk fan could agree on something lol

[xavieronly1]

Don't you guys get bored with these threads? They're the same thing over and over again.

The thing is that, not everyone checks BO before they make a NT purchase. There are many people out there without knowing the fact that you have zero chance to pull OBJ and TB. And retailers would use this as an advantage to tell the customer "better luck in next box" or "OBJ still not being pulled in this case".

Many basketball fans don't check football thread on flawless issue. And many football fans don't even know there is Alex Len NT issue as well. Stuff like this can't get bored. In fact, it should get bump.

[UltimateDeron]

If this happens with Wiggins in Immaculate I'll be pissed. I have 2 cases coming in that I paid good money for. Not for Panini to F with!

[UltimateDeron]

Let's not forget about the instance in 2010 with Panini Certified Football... The hit of the product back then was the Mirror Black 1/1 Logoshield of Sam Bradford. If anyone recalls, this card was never packed out and was actually given as a redemption replacement (the person who received it had a number of VERY highend outstanding redemptions).

If I remember right it just so happen to go to one of their biggest rippers. Starts with a M. Ends with a Swift.

[Big Ben Fan]

I have never opened a high end product of Panini and probably never will as I cant justify spending $500 on a box of cards but hopefully someone can answer this, why do they even do two waves of the release?

I think its crazy they haven't come clean as they have obviously been caught out and it isn't going to stop the problem as now everyone knows the big money RPA's are in the second wave so it wont stop people buying these up meanwhile everyone who got in on the first "wave" losses out and Panini wont do anything for them or at least it seems they wont.

If the cards have been packed out there's no way one doesn't show up yet.

not to create a new topic but did topps or UD ever do 2 waves of a realease I really dont see the point in this. 1 wave is always going to be better than the other 12-13 Immaculate ?

[tristan20]

Typical Panini, ever wonder why certain cards never ever see the light of day? Usually the biggest hits. They somehow never show up. Amazing it happens product after product.

[440shane]

Don't you guys get bored with these threads? They're the same thing over and over again.

and therein lies the issue.

Bingo! We have a winner! The tall man in the back

[suki24]

If you guys have been in the game for a long time now, this shouldn't be a surprise. How the hell are you surprised by shady practices by Panini? They've been doing it for years as well as the other companies like UD. Unless you can bring them to court and close them down, you put up with it and enjoy their cards. I wont even comment about BO practices cause a mod got mad about it last time lol.

[hermanotarjeta]

Even Topps admits to holding back 3% of their numbered inserts to be used for replacement and promotional purposes- they can hold back anything they want.

Think about that before you purchase another box of sports cards again, especially if you are looking for only one particular card.

[thepinoymamba]

Panini Randomly Distribute them... That is for sure.. Alex Len will be a beast

[Donruss23]

If this happens with Wiggins in Immaculate I'll be pissed. I have 2 cases coming in that I paid good money for. Not for Panini to F with!

I hear you man, I have T'Wolves in a 3 case break here, haha.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if they front loaded the hell out of it now

[oldgoldy97]

I have never opened a high end product of Panini and probably never will as I cant justify spending $500 on a box of cards but hopefully someone can answer this, why do they even do two waves of the release?

I think its crazy they haven't come clean as they have obviously been caught out and it isn't going to stop the problem as now everyone knows the big money RPA's are in the second wave so it wont stop people buying these up meanwhile everyone who got in on the first "wave" losses out and Panini wont do anything for them or at least it seems they wont.

If the cards have been packed out there's no way one doesn't show up yet.

not to create a new topic but did topps or UD ever do 2 waves of a realease I really dont see the point in this. 1 wave is always going to be better than the other 12-13 Immaculate ?

UD was accused of backdooring Exquisite in the past. Funny that isn't brought up more often.

[DKfxr]

I hear you man, I have T'Wolves in a 3 case break here, haha.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if they front loaded the hell out of it now


Ive got two cases coming as well. I think they will frontload immaculate..after everybody jumps on board the prices will spike just in time for the crappy 2nd wave to hit.

[SPauthentic84]

UD was accused of backdooring Exquisite in the past. Funny that isn't brought up more often.

Tell you what...for arguments sake...

I wont order anymore UD boxes.

Happy?

[trixstar]

For those who don't venture into the baseball forum.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/860459-will-panini-ever-answer-they-now-being-accused-fake-ruth-auto.html

[SPauthentic84]

For those who don't venture into the baseball forum.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/860459-will-panini-ever-answer-they-now-being-accused-fake-ruth-auto.html

Good find...probably wasn't on purpose though

[xavieronly1]

For those who don't venture into the baseball forum.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/860459-will-panini-ever-answer-they-now-being-accused-fake-ruth-auto.html

Authentic Signature from Babe-Ruth-Wanna-Be.

[IronMonkey415]

So this is the year UD rises up and Panini crumbles.

[gomiamigo]

UD was accused of backdooring Exquisite in the past. Funny that isn't brought up more often.

Never saw any evidence of that in the cases I bought from them, maybe prior to the 07-08 release.

[xavieronly1]

So this is the year UD rises up and Panini crumbles.

Football fans need to suck on basketball thread now!