Panini bad year for them?

[Donkykonk]

12/13 26 Panini Products (double rookie class)
13/14 21 Panini Products (weak rookie class)

14/15 10 Panini Products so far and three more in the making (supposed to be great rookie class)

A couple of months ago I read here in the forum, that this will be "the year for Panini".
If this is supposed to be "their year" then the future does not look too bright for them imo.

[benz35]

12/13 26 Panini Products (double rookie class)
13/14 21 Panini Products (weak rookie class)

14/15 10 Panini Products so far and three more in the making (supposed to be great rookie class)

A couple of months ago I read here in the forum, that this will be "the year for Panini".
If this is supposed to be "their year" then the future does not look too bright for them imo.



If this is supposed to be "their year" then the future does not look too bright for them imo.<<elaborate why....

[Chicosbailbonds]

I dread them getting exclusive football production.

[Stackfan]

Didn't they say, they were going to release less products, and market/push the ones they release better? 25 brands from one company is too much.

[Hornet21]

Yep they've lifted the quality of the product in almost every product, albeit they've also added more parallels to make up the smaller number of products.

I'm actually enjoying the extra week or so between products. Doesn't feel like I'm drowning trying to chase things.

[Donkykonk]

I would say they drastically reduced the number of brands because they were simply not selling enough and not because they wanted do the collectors a favor and rise up the quality of the product.

[Andy5]

There are 6 products yet to be released.

Immaculate, Spectra, Preferred, NT, Flawless, Optimus.

Edit: and apparently another retail release but I'm not sure if confirmed.

[Donkykonk]

There are 6 products yet to be released.

Immaculate, Spectra, Preferred, NT, Flawless, Optimus.

Are NT, Flawless and Optimus already confirmed?

[Andy5]

Are NT, Flawless and Optimus already confirmed?

NT and Flawless were mentioned at the recent industry summit. Can't see Panini dropping them anytime soon. Optimus is still a bit of a question mark.

[Hornet21]

There are 6 products yet to be released.

Immaculate, Spectra, Preferred, NT, Flawless, Optimus.

Edit: and apparently another retail release but I'm not sure if confirmed.

I'm led to believe there's actually 9 products yet to be released.

The other three are new brands. One is retail exclusive, and one seems like it could be a revamp of the adrenalyn.

[xavieronly1]

I dislike those target only products. They are crap for the MSRP.

[IronMonkey415]

Everything will be A-Okay once Immaculate comes out.

[hermanotarjeta]

It's been a bad year for panini since 2009.

[Bigalloyd13]

That is still too many products. I can see this hurting the value of NBA down the road. The NBA should open their eyes and see that one company having the exclusive license is not good. Have someone else along with Panini produce them, like UD. I miss them making NBA cards.

[SCR]

I think most collectors don't realize that contracts with the NBA (or other leagues) aren't meant to generate significant income. For example, the television deals with TNT, ABC/ESPN ... ect are meant to promote other programming on those networks as they don't generate significant net income showing the games. Nike/Adidas don't lock in exclusive uniform deals to make a bunch of money selling jersey's or team gear. They do it to sell sneakers which have high margins & no royalty payment.

The bottom line is Panini is treating the NBA license just like any other license holder. For Panini, it's a vehicle for distribution & brand awareness so every 4 years when the World Cup is played the company can cash in. Panini isn't going to rise or fall because of NBA cards, it will simply be used as a way to gain exposure for products that do have tremendous demand/net-income generating potential.

Additionally, it's not that the NBA doesn't want more than 1 manufacture making cards - it's the fact that the industry isn't healthy enough (or large enough) to support more than 1 manufacture. Even NBA video games have had trouble supporting more than 1 game ... so you better believe trading cards would have trouble supporting more than 1 card maker. That's just the reality of the situation, and it's a waste of time blaming the leagues & manufactures.

[rats60]

I think most collectors don't realize that contracts with the NBA (or other leagues) aren't meant to generate significant income. For example, the television deals with TNT, ABC/ESPN ... ect are meant to promote other programming on those networks as they don't generate significant net income showing the games. Nike/Adidas don't lock in exclusive uniform deals to make a bunch of money selling jersey's or team gear. They do it to sell sneakers which have high margins & no royalty payment.

The bottom line is Panini is treating the NBA license just like any other license holder. For Panini, it's a vehicle for distribution & brand awareness so every 4 years when the World Cup is played the company can cash in. Panini isn't going to rise or fall because of NBA cards, it will simply be used as a way to gain exposure for products that do have tremendous demand/net-income generating potential.

Additionally, it's not that the NBA doesn't want more than 1 manufacture making cards - it's the fact that the industry isn't healthy enough (or large enough) to support more than 1 manufacture. Even NBA video games have had trouble supporting more than 1 game ... so you better believe trading cards would have trouble supporting more than 1 card maker. That's just the reality of the situation, and it's a waste of time blaming the leagues & manufactures.

Panini is making 16-19 products this year. There certainly is enough room for another license. Cut them back to 8-10 products, 1 per month with nothing during the off season and let Upper Deck (Exquisite, etc.) or Topps (Chome, etc.) pick up the slack. Or better, let all 3 make 6 products each, then we get each company's best shot instead of one Panini retread after another.

[bjho852]

Panini is making 16-19 products this year. There certainly is enough room for another license. Cut them back to 8-10 products, 1 per month with nothing during the off season and let Upper Deck (Exquisite, etc.) or Topps (Chome, etc.) pick up the slack. Or better, let all 3 make 6 products each, then we get each company's best shot instead of one Panini retread after another.

8-10 products each for 2 companies seems to be the ideal situation.
6 products each for 3 companies.....not that it can't be done, but I feel that it might make companies concentrate on producing higher-end products and hurt us budget collectors.

[tristan20]

Their greed will lead to their demise

[kairi-2008]

Less is more

[rodmanmartinez]

8-10 products each for 2 companies seems to be the ideal situation.
6 products each for 3 companies.....not that it can't be done, but I feel that it might make companies concentrate on producing higher-end products and hurt us budget collectors.

When all the companies were around, how many products did each release?

[SCR]

Panini is making 16-19 products this year. There certainly is enough room for another license. Cut them back to 8-10 products, 1 per month with nothing during the off season and let Upper Deck (Exquisite, etc.) or Topps (Chome, etc.) pick up the slack. Or better, let all 3 make 6 products each, then we get each company's best shot instead of one Panini retread after another.

This just doesn't work in today's environment. Remember what I said that companies don't buy league licenses to make money - it's to open doors/exposure to sell more lucrative products. Making 6-10 products just simply wouldn't make sense for Panini, Topps or Upper Deck. Even if the NBA were to give these companies that option, I don't think many would even do it.

One major reason why the leagues like dealing with 1 company - especially with cards - is every single card is approved by an NBA representative. Dealing with 1 company is simply easier & more cost effective.

Another reason is autograph deals. Athletes sign deals where they are allowed to only sign a certain amount of autographs per year - even for friends/family/charity. Keeping track of this over 2 or 3 different companies is a nightmare - and it's only something lower-end players would do. This would lead to some companies doing well and others struggling - which is exactly what the NBA is trying to avoid. Hence the reason they do exclusive deals. Remember - the NBA doesn't want to put companies out of business ... the exclusive deals helps that not happen.

Topps has no interest in making any major sports cards except for baseball. We know this because they let the NFLPA licence go for less than what the 2 companies were combining to pay for. Essentially Panini locked in the next 10 years for less than what the two were paying on average to the NFLPA ... so clearly Topps let it go because it wasn't worth it. NBA cards are even less popular so there's no way they'll re-enter this market.

Upper Deck owes the IRS a fortune. Luckily the private jet business is booming ... that keeps the lights on there. UD is in no position to use the NBA license for simply promotional purposes, hence the reason why Panini is the one that ends up with it.

I'm not saying your idea is a bad one - just not something that will ever happen again in today's environment. Cards aren't very popular anymore and the leagues like dealing with 1 company unless it's for Television. Remember that any income generated by these licenses is divided by 30+ teams and multiple owners ... it's simply not worth it to them to deal with more than one company unless it's a billion dollar TV contract.

[clipperboy24]

This just doesn't work in today's environment. Remember what I said that companies don't buy league licenses to make money - it's to open doors/exposure to sell more lucrative products. Making 6-10 products just simply wouldn't make sense for Panini, Topps or Upper Deck. Even if the NBA were to give these companies that option, I don't think many would even do it.

One major reason why the leagues like dealing with 1 company - especially with cards - is every single card is approved by an NBA representative. Dealing with 1 company is simply easier & more cost effective.

Another reason is autograph deals. Athletes sign deals where they are allowed to only sign a certain amount of autographs per year - even for friends/family/charity. Keeping track of this over 2 or 3 different companies is a nightmare - and it's only something lower-end players would do. This would lead to some companies doing well and others struggling - which is exactly what the NBA is trying to avoid. Hence the reason they do exclusive deals. Remember - the NBA doesn't want to put companies out of business ... the exclusive deals helps that not happen.

Topps has no interest in making any major sports cards except for baseball. We know this because they let the NFLPA licence go for less than what the 2 companies were combining to pay for. Essentially Panini locked in the next 10 years for less than what the two were paying on average to the NFLPA ... so clearly Topps let it go because it wasn't worth it. NBA cards are even less popular so there's no way they'll re-enter this market.

Upper Deck owes the IRS a fortune. Luckily the private jet business is booming ... that keeps the lights on there. UD is in no position to use the NBA license for simply promotional purposes, hence the reason why Panini is the one that ends up with it.

I'm not saying your idea is a bad one - just not something that will ever happen again in today's environment. Cards aren't very popular anymore and the leagues like dealing with 1 company unless it's for Television. Remember that any income generated by these licenses is divided by 30+ teams and multiple owners ... it's simply not worth it to them to deal with more than one company unless it's a billion dollar TV contract.

IMO There is more revenue to be had than you are giving credit, but it isn't being fully extracted. Topps is extremely mismanaged right now and UD is just a disaster. I don't know much about Panini's management but I think they haven't done a great job in basketball but not horrible.

As for limitations on autographs, with everything being so much more limited in each release than it used to be, that shouldn't be a problem.

[xavieronly1]

Actually, it was Topps, UD and NBA agreeing on single company license back in 2008 because they knew the market was small enough that only one company could make a reasonable profit. Panini just got in and outbid Topps and UD.

Make more products does not really increase the expense that much. Most of the products are just printing cardboards and putting $1 GU and sticker auto. It is not like they load Hoops, Thread with Kobe/Durant/Griffin auto.