Interesting stat shown on ESPN regarding Lebron.

[JasonM32]

Picture was copied from another BB site.

http://s12.postimg.org/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg

Pretty well sums up what we already know. The East has sucked for a while.

[jcmel323]

Eastern conference is so easy.

[the27guy]

EXACTLY!!!!

Lebron is amazing. One of the best ever... But when I hear people who just worship the guy and talk about how amazing his team success I just want to put a giant asterisk next to it with a note that says "go ahead and tell me which great teams he had to play in the first three rounds of thhe playoffs??"

Meanwhile 7-8 teams in the west win 50 games every single year.

Great stat op.

[Lakerhater]

And Magic went to the finals 9 times and only beat thirteen 50 win teams. The west was fairly terrible for about a dozen years. I agree that the east is weak, but aren't you supposed to beat teams inferior to yours and lebron seams to continue to do that. The only non - Celtics player to ever get to 5 straight finals? Pretty impressive no matter how much you hate him.

[the27guy]

And Magic went to the finals 9 times and only beat thirteen 50 win teams. The west was fairly terrible for about a dozen years. I agree that the east is weak, but aren't you supposed to beat teams inferior to yours and lebron seams to continue to do that. The only non - Celtics player to ever get to 5 straight finals? Pretty impressive no matter how much you hate him.

No doubt it's impressive. He's the best of this generation... It's just too bad that he's been in a terrible conference literally his entire career.

[imcominghome]

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll250/daoher1/Mobile%20Uploads/FB_IMG_1432869610345_zpsp0su1wpm.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/daoher1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/FB_IMG_1432869610345_zpsp0su1wpm.jpg.html)

[ninjacookies]

Look at all the names above him. Ridiculous teams/dynasties those guys had to knock off...on a consistent basis. Not Lebron's fault, because he can only do what he can with the conference he's dealt...but the eastern conference has been a cakewalk for a long time.

[JasonM32]

And Magic went to the finals 9 times and only beat thirteen 50 win teams. The west was fairly terrible for about a dozen years. I agree that the east is weak, but aren't you supposed to beat teams inferior to yours and lebron seams to continue to do that. The only non - Celtics player to ever get to 5 straight finals? Pretty impressive no matter how much you hate him.


The 5 straight Finals thing is great but we have to look at the big picture.

He left this team and rigged it so he could play with a super team in Miami. He conspired with 2 other max contract, first option, all-star, Team USA players to take less money and circumvent the salary cap. Then he bailed again and formed another super team as soon as things started to not look as promising. A team that just so happened to have won the draft lottery 3 out of the 4 previous years.

It's unprecedented in basketball history for a superstar to do this. Then you fact in how laughable the East has been over that stretch. I'm not trying to say it's not amazing what he is doing and that he isn't a great player. I just think that maybe we all need a little time to really examine things. Right now we are probably too close to it and don't have the right perspective.

[imcominghome]

If it's that easy, why don't we see other non lebron led team in the finals, he must be good.or.the other players aren't.Good right? Ppl still drool about derrick rose and.Paul George, but they still can't beat lebron

[fullmetal]

A bunch of poor eastern teams on that list.

[ILOVEBEER]

EXACTLY!!!!

Lebron is amazing. One of the best ever... But when I hear people who just worship the guy and talk about how amazing his team success I just want to put a giant asterisk next to it with a note that says "go ahead and tell me which great teams he had to play in the first three rounds of thhe playoffs??"

Meanwhile 7-8 teams in the west win 50 games every single year.

Great stat op.
Who cares. He beat the best team in the West twice and the three Finals loses were against very very good teams. I've stayed out of these arguements but it's laughable how much people hate such a great player and try to brush off what he has done.

[jj2]

The 5 straight Finals thing is great but we have to look at the big picture.

He left this team and rigged it so he could play with a super team in Miami. He conspired with 2 other max contract, first option, all-star, Team USA players to take less money and circumvent the salary cap. Then he bailed again and formed another super team as soon as things started to not look as promising. A team that just so happened to have won the draft lottery 3 out of the 4 previous years.

It's unprecedented in basketball history for a superstar to do this. Then you fact in how laughable the East has been over that stretch. I'm not trying to say it's not amazing what he is doing and that he isn't a great player. I just think that maybe we all need a little time to really examine things. Right now we are probably too close to it and don't have the right perspective.

Implying what he's done/doing isn't "amazing" is exactly what you're doing. It's all right there. Just be honest.

[Litwing]

Those guys in the media really can create so many stat. immediately.

[trask7]

I don't think you can hold it against a team because they play in the East. It seems like it is a a no win conversation. Everyone says that the West is the hardest but when Miami won two in a row, it was because the West was so tired from the hard competition. Yes, Lebron has less wins against 50 game teams but that is not something he can control. It would be interesting how well he would be in the West.

[Chris_31]

why the hell is it not possible to adjust conferendes more often to get a Balance and silence this east west Drama? I think that might Change all the success for any Team.

For me, Teams like the spurs could have been Champion if it wouldn't have been so stupid to have to Play the Clippers while the No.4 Seed in the East is blown out of his own building. What I'd like to say is, Teams with a first round out in the west could be legitimate contenders on the EC Title, and with 1-2 won series, you never know what happens... It is just not fair anymore.

Play each Team 3 times a year in the reg season - and let the best 16 Teams Play this out...

[gatorboymike]

LeBron has not dominated the NBA the way past greats have. Guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell...the kind of guys who, when they were around, nobody could ever win against them.

Worse than that, he's spent his entire career playing in the wussbag present-day Eastern Conference. He's used to playing in a league where he can go barreling blindly right into a crowd of defenders and have free throws handed to him on a silver platter. He would have shattered like a fragile porcelain mouse back in the day where the opposing player could clothesline you and everyone would just say "Get off the floor already, you pansy."

[Braswell10]

LeBron has not dominated the NBA the way past greats have. Guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell...the kind of guys who, when they were around, nobody could ever win against them.

Worse than that, he's spent his entire career playing in the wussbag present-day Eastern Conference. He's used to playing in a league where he can go barreling blindly right into a crowd of defenders and have free throws handed to him on a silver platter. He would have shattered like a fragile porcelain mouse back in the day where the opposing player could clothesline you and everyone would just say "Get off the floor already, you pansy."

Hm, well...Didn't Jordan play in the east his entire career:confused:

[ninjacookies]

Hm, well...Didn't Jordan play in the east his entire career:confused:

The east had the power during the 90's. It was a complete flip of what it is now.

[JMarchand1981]

The east had the power during the 90's. It was a complete flip of what it is now.

This is true. At that point, the east was STACKED.

[kobe824]

Well well well look who sits atop that list ;)

[Brobocop]

Just curious, do people want LeBron to jump over to the Western Conference? Do people want the NBA to readjust the conferences due to the perceived lack of balance between the two conferences? Do people want LeBron to win without having a solid team with some HOF caliber players on his team?

Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, Johnson had Kareem and Worthy, and Bird had Parish and McHale. Not taking anything away from those three but it wasn't like they put the team on their backs and won their titles on their own. They had some fantastic players with them who got them over the other teams that also had some fantastic players on them. LeBron and other players should tell you that the only thing you need to worry about is beating the team that is in front of you. It's not your responsibility to put a good team together to then go and play. Your responsibility is to play with your team and work towards beating the other team. As long as he is doing that then he is doing what he needs to in order to continue winning and solidifying his already stellar career.

[myusasets]

guys look back. wilt could not win with two former nba scoring champs and jumped to the lakers with west and baylor to win. didn't work out but he won. hey these guy want to win. after while the money doesn't matter. ie malone to the lakers.

[mc1]

The 5 straight Finals thing is great but we have to look at the big picture.

He left this team and rigged it so he could play with a super team in Miami. He conspired with 2 other max contract, first option, all-star, Team USA players to take less money and circumvent the salary cap. Then he bailed again and formed another super team as soon as things started to not look as promising. A team that just so happened to have won the draft lottery 3 out of the 4 previous years.

It's unprecedented in basketball history for a superstar to do this. Then you fact in how laughable the East has been over that stretch. I'm not trying to say it's not amazing what he is doing and that he isn't a great player. I just think that maybe we all need a little time to really examine things. Right now we are probably too close to it and don't have the right perspective.

If the East is so weak, why did superstars Wade, Bosh and Irving win nothing on their own? 2006 doesnt count, that Finals is a disgrace and Cuban was right. It was rigged.

Show me the great playoff accomplishments Wade and Bosh had from 2007-2010. There are none. Not a single playoff series win. How about Irving? Not a single playoff appearance. Same with Love, although he did play out West where it was going to be tougher getting in. Wade and Bosh wont do anything from here out either. Amazing how they play in a weak conference and yet without Lebron, neither has won a playoff series on their own in close to 10 years!

[bigaust001]

Not defending BronBron, but why does every legend have to take the same path to greatness? Sure, he may've had an 'easier road' to what he's doing... but look at what he's doing along the way. Keep in mind, his career is far from over.

[RaVcCollector]

This is true. At that point, the east was STACKED.

I agree with this... Back in the day the East owned the NBA for almost 3 decades. You couldn't stop Russell, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Iverson in his prime, Vince Carter, and we can't forget about Shaq, Mourning, or Ewing. For all those years.... The best players were on teams in the East. Now it's flip flopped and players like Duncan, Kobe, and all the newer players like Chris Paul, Westbrook, Durant, AD, etc etc can shine. I'm not saying I'm a fan or Lebron and ogle over every player does and every decision that he makes but I respect him as an amazing player for what he has accomplished and hopefully he can turn the Eastern Conference back to what it was. Right now the west is stacked and you just can't really compete with their teams. Eventually I think it'll flip flop again and more players will want to play on the east and either make it balanced or put the Eastern Conference back on top. That's my rant and I'll probably catch heat but it's my idea and outlook

[asujbl]

Did LeBron retire and I missed it? That sucks.

[rhigh2390]

Like others have said in this thread, lebron is still really good and the best of this generation, but he's got a ways to go before he's in the top 5 of all time greats.

[pip33tomj23]

Just curious, do people want LeBron to jump over to the Western Conference? Do people want the NBA to readjust the conferences due to the perceived lack of balance between the two conferences? Do people want LeBron to win without having a solid team with some HOF caliber players on his team?

Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, Johnson had Kareem and Worthy, and Bird had Parish and McHale. Not taking anything away from those three but it wasn't like they put the team on their backs and won their titles on their own. They had some fantastic players with them who got them over the other teams that also had some fantastic players on them. LeBron and other players should tell you that the only thing you need to worry about is beating the team that is in front of you. It's not your responsibility to put a good team together to then go and play. Your responsibility is to play with your team and work towards beating the other team. As long as he is doing that then he is doing what he needs to in order to continue winning and solidifying his already stellar career.

You're overlooking the fact that Jordan essentially crafted Pippen. Pippen developed into the player he became because of Michael Jordan, period. Rodman came along to the Bulls as he had started to go a tad nutty. He was a risk, and between Jordan and Jackson, they straightened him out.

LeBron didn't make Wade... or Bosh... or Love... he has helped players like Irving, Mike Miller, James Jones, JR Smith, Shumpert, etc...

I'm personally just tired of ESPN making up stats to promote LeBron. This is the first neutral one I've seen in ages... otherwise it's some random stat that no one previously ever cared about using riding Lebron's nuts. "LeBron is the first player to score 28 ppg, average 9 rb and 6 assists in a game." Yea, okay, who cares? Just like Steph Curry recently... "Curry is the first player to hit 6 threes and have 6 steals in a WCF game"... wow, who cares? ESPN, IMO, needs to layoff these dumb stats.

[xavieronly1]

Did LeBron retire and I missed it? That sucks.

Magic played 13 seasons; Lebron played 12.

He is still 1 short even if Lebron wins this year AND win 4 playoff series against 50+ win team in 2016.

[xavieronly1]

You're overlooking the fact that Jordan essentially crafted Pippen. Pippen developed into the player he became because of Michael Jordan, period. Rodman came along to the Bulls as he had started to go a tad nutty. He was a risk, and between Jordan and Jackson, they straightened him out.

LeBron didn't make Wade... or Bosh... or Love... he has helped players like Irving, Mike Miller, James Jones, JR Smith, Shumpert, etc...

I'm personally just tired of ESPN making up stats to promote LeBron. This is the first neutral one I've seen in ages... otherwise it's some random stat that no one previously ever cared about using riding Lebron's nuts. "LeBron is the first player to score 28 ppg, average 9 rb and 6 assists in a game." Yea, okay, who cares? Just like Steph Curry recently... "Curry is the first player to hit 6 threes and have 6 steals in a WCF game"... wow, who cares? ESPN, IMO, needs to layoff these dumb stats.

At least better than TNT using "such numbers"

[asujbl]

Magic played 13 seasons; Lebron played 12.

He is still 1 short even if Lebron wins this year AND win 4 playoff series against 50+ win team in 2016.

I brought up Magic? News to me since I didn't.

Until LeBron retires that list is simply a way to pile on because people have nothing better to talk about

[bdoody42]

The 5 straight Finals thing is great but we have to look at the big picture.

He left this team and rigged it so he could play with a super team in Miami. He conspired with 2 other max contract, first option, all-star, Team USA players to take less money and circumvent the salary cap. Then he bailed again and formed another super team as soon as things started to not look as promising. A team that just so happened to have won the draft lottery 3 out of the 4 previous years.

It's unprecedented in basketball history for a superstar to do this. Then you fact in how laughable the East has been over that stretch. I'm not trying to say it's not amazing what he is doing and that he isn't a great player. I just think that maybe we all need a little time to really examine things. Right now we are probably too close to it and don't have the right perspective.

Very well put and spot on.

[GC1980]

You're overlooking the fact that Jordan essentially crafted Pippen. Pippen developed into the player he became because of Michael Jordan, period. Rodman came along to the Bulls as he had started to go a tad nutty. He was a risk, and between Jordan and Jackson, they straightened him out.

LeBron didn't make Wade... or Bosh... or Love... he has helped players like Irving, Mike Miller, James Jones, JR Smith, Shumpert, etc...

I'm personally just tired of ESPN making up stats to promote LeBron. This is the first neutral one I've seen in ages... otherwise it's some random stat that no one previously ever cared about using riding Lebron's nuts. "LeBron is the first player to score 28 ppg, average 9 rb and 6 assists in a game." Yea, okay, who cares? Just like Steph Curry recently... "Curry is the first player to hit 6 threes and have 6 steals in a WCF game"... wow, who cares? ESPN, IMO, needs to layoff these dumb stats.

Great post. ESPN loves to sell cherry picked stats.

I don't think anyone can deny that Lebron James is a fantastic player and the best of his generation but it's not being a hater to notice his competition to get to the Finals has been historically weak. He can only beat the teams in front of him and he has done that throughout his career in the Eastern Bracket. He is sub .500 against the better west teams despite having hand selected super teams.

Most of the "hate" and desire to marginalize his accomplishments is not so much about LBJ the player or even LBJ the personality. I believe it's mostly because the media and the fans grossly overstate his place in the history of the game. So many people have him as a top 2-5 player already and it's insulting to the real top 5 players to do that when he really has so much to accomplish before he earns it.

Put it this way, with the exception of Wilt, who has the most freakish numbers ever, what top 5 all time player has a losing record in the finals? Not MJ, not Magic, not Kareem, not Russell not Bird.

[the27guy]

Great post. ESPN loves to sell cherry picked stats.

I don't think anyone can deny that Lebron James is a fantastic player and the best of his generation but it's not being a hater to notice his competition to get to the Finals has been historically weak. He can only beat the teams in front of him and he has done that throughout his career in the Eastern Bracket. He is sub .500 against the better west teams despite having hand selected super teams.

Most of the "hate" and desire to marginalize his accomplishments is not so much about LBJ the player or even LBJ the personality. I believe it's mostly because the media and the fans grossly overstate his place in the history of the game. So many people have him as a top 2-5 player already and it's insulting to the real top 5 players to do that when he really has so much to accomplish before he earns it.

Put it this way, with the exception of Wilt, who has the most freakish numbers ever, what top 5 all time player has a losing record in the finals? Not MJ, not Magic, not Kareem, not Russell not Bird.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read. Well articulated. Smart. Spot on. Nice thoughts. Exactly my sentiment.

[alanlam]

Just curious, do people want LeBron to jump over to the Western Conference? Do people want the NBA to readjust the conferences due to the perceived lack of balance between the two conferences? Do people want LeBron to win without having a solid team with some HOF caliber players on his team?

I'd like them to remove conferences completely. OKC shouldn't be home while Brooklyn and Boston are in the playoffs. LAC vs SAS shouldn't be a first round series. Just do a 1-16 tournament, keep the rounds the same. I don't get why that'd be so earth shattering to people.

Tom Ziller wrote a pretty cool idea about conference realignment awhile back. I think his idea would be pretty interesting if we are going to stick with conferences. They should do something. New Orleans and Memphis don't make any sense in the West geographically. Minnesota should be in the same division as Chicago Milwaukee and Indy if they are keeping divisions.

[rhigh2390]

You're overlooking the fact that Jordan essentially crafted Pippen. Pippen developed into the player he became because of Michael Jordan, period. Rodman came along to the Bulls as he had started to go a tad nutty. He was a risk, and between Jordan and Jackson, they straightened him out.

LeBron didn't make Wade... or Bosh... or Love... he has helped players like Irving, Mike Miller, James Jones, JR Smith, Shumpert, etc...

I'm personally just tired of ESPN making up stats to promote LeBron. This is the first neutral one I've seen in ages... otherwise it's some random stat that no one previously ever cared about using riding Lebron's nuts. "LeBron is the first player to score 28 ppg, average 9 rb and 6 assists in a game." Yea, okay, who cares? Just like Steph Curry recently... "Curry is the first player to hit 6 threes and have 6 steals in a WCF game"... wow, who cares? ESPN, IMO, needs to layoff these dumb stats.

Exactly! Who knows where Pippen would have placed in history if he never played with Jordan. I know he was drafted 5th, but its not like he was a Lebron/Kyrie/Wiggins type hype coming into the league. He was traded to the Bulls on draft night for Olden Polynice.

[asujbl]

Exactly! Who knows where Pippen would have placed in history if he never played with Jordan. I know he was drafted 5th, but its not like he was a Lebron/Kyrie/Wiggins type hype coming into the league. He was traded to the Bulls on draft night for Olden Polynice.

Kyrie had no "hype" - a ton of people thought Derrick Williams was the #1 pick - Kyrie wasn't on the same planet as far as a guy like LeBron or Wiggins coming into the Draft

Revisionist history from a Bulls fan.

[alanlam]

Kyrie had no "hype" - a ton of people thought Derrick Williams was the #1 pick - Kyrie wasn't on the same planet as far as a guy like LeBron or Wiggins coming into the Draft

Revisionist history from a Bulls fan.

Guilty. I thought that draft class was gonna suck. I was wayyy off.

[GC1980]

Kyrie had no "hype" - a ton of people thought Derrick Williams was the #1 pick - Kyrie wasn't on the same planet as far as a guy like LeBron or Wiggins coming into the Draft

Revisionist history from a Bulls fan.

Kyrie wasn't on the same level as LBJ or Wiggins but he was a very highly touted prospect. If not for injuries his one and done year he may very well have had that hype. He was still the number one pick and no one was shocked even after missing a huge portion of his year at Duke. Also, you aren't Duke's prized recruit without a fair bit of hype.

I get your point and agree he was tier below those names as a prospect but you are marginalizing him to make you point against a bulls fan.

[xavieronly1]

I brought up Magic? News to me since I didn't.

Until LeBron retires that list is simply a way to pile on because people have nothing better to talk about

You don't read OP before making comment? That is not news to me.

[holyWahoos]

Either he doesn't beat enough 50 win teams or when he beats two 50 win teams the last two series, one being a 60 win team that the Cavs swept, people come up with reasons to undermine those wins. Got it.

[DajuanWagner]

Picture was copied from another BB site.

http://s12.postimg.org/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg

Pretty well sums up what we already know. The East has sucked for a while.




Agreed, pretty well sums up what we already know. That Lebron is in pretty great company. Great thread.

[Jasondr91]

Nice reply Randy...^^ :-)



However....*If...and it's obviously a big IF right now.....Lebron wins the title this year, what are the excuses now? Here are the thoughts running through my mind, my apologies for the butchered writing....


Assuming Cleveland wins....

1. Left Miami to join yet another super team. (Said superteam is in the easy East, but Kyrie is constantly injured, K-Love out through the playoffs. That excuse doesn't float now) And why is it the east is so easy, no teams can't get past Lebron in the East?

2. No home court advantage, and completely dismantled the #1 seed in a sweep. (But it's the East, nobody liked ATL...even though they were a 60 win team, and favored against Cleveland)


3. Takes a circus of journeymen and role players and they buy into the belief...and ALL are contributing through the playoffs with a strong pverall performance throughout the 2015 playoffs.


4. Takes a team that was winning lottery picks immediately after he left in 2010 directly to the Finals, and wins one for Cleveland finally. The haters are going to have a loooong summer.

Is he Jordan? NOPE

Is he Kobe? NOPE

Is he GOAT? NOPE

Is he a top 5 of all time? NOPE, not yet.

He's Lebron James.........let comparisons to him begin for the future talent coming into the league.

You can really tell how successful a player is developing by the amount of haters he has as he continues to build his legacy. Think Kobe, Tom Brady, MJ.....

[I only pull for]

Magic played 13 seasons; Lebron played 12.

He is still 1 short even if Lebron wins this year AND win 4 playoff series against 50+ win team in 2016.

+1 :)!

He is no Magic..

[GC1980]

+1 :)!

He is no Magic..

LOVE seeing some props for Magic Johnson around here!

[GC1980]

Nice reply Randy...^^ :-)



However....*If...and it's obviously a big IF right now.....Lebron wins the title this year, what are the excuses now? Here are the thoughts running through my mind, my apologies for the butchered writing....


Assuming Cleveland wins....

1. Left Miami to join yet another super team. (Said superteam is in the easy East, but Kyrie is constantly injured, K-Love out through the playoffs. That excuse doesn't float now) And why is it the east is so easy, no teams can't get past Lebron in the East?

YEs, he tried to form another superteam. Kyrie has played very well and gotten banged up a little as of late but has been a key reason for the Cavs success. K-Love injury hurt. Fortunately the rest of the roster also received a major upgrade with Mosgov, Shumpert, Smith. This is a complete team. No questioning that. He's been great though for sure.

2. No home court advantage, and completely dismantled the #1 seed in a sweep. (But it's the East, nobody liked ATL...even though they were a 60 win team, and favored against Cleveland)

No arguing this. ATL was hobbled as were the Cavs and they got dismantled. ATL was playing poorly all postseason but the Cavs handled their business.


3. Takes a circus of journeymen and role players and they buy into the belief...and ALL are contributing through the playoffs with a strong pverall performance throughout the 2015 playoffs.

This theory that the Cavs are some sad sack bunch is ridiculous. They were the odds on favorite to win the title at the start of the season and made HUGE roster upgrades adding a solid big and a top notch wing defender. Smith was a gamble but they got the good JR. As any Knick fan will tell you, that guy can play. Is LBJ doing a fine job leading this team? Yes. Are they some ragtag bunch of losers? Absolutely not. They were the favorites to win the East and they did just that.


4. Takes a team that was winning lottery picks immediately after he left in 2010 directly to the Finals, and wins one for Cleveland finally. The haters are going to have a loooong summer.

This is the only point that has zero validity imo. This is NOT the same team that was in the lottery. New coach and an entirely new roster minus Kyrie and Tristan.

Is he Jordan? NOPE

Is he Kobe? NOPE

Is he GOAT? NOPE

Is he a top 5 of all time? NOPE, not yet.

He's Lebron James.........let comparisons to him begin for the future talent coming into the league.

You can really tell how successful a player is developing by the amount of haters he has as he continues to build his legacy. Think Kobe, Tom Brady, MJ.....

Some thoughts in their but agree with your conclusion.

[jr24ai3]

You're overlooking the fact that Jordan essentially crafted Pippen. Pippen developed into the player he became because of Michael Jordan, period.

I've been saying this forever. Pippen still may have become an occasional all-star if he played his entire career w/o Jordan. But I definitely feel Jordan's work ethic and pushing everyone in practice made Pippen reach his full potential.

[xavieronly1]

Also, notice how both Bird and Magic have lower series win compared to kobe and Duncan. That clearly shows how balance the league was in 80's. You just don't have one conf loading up all of them 50+ win team.

Looking at Kobe and Duncan. Both play in the West. Hence, they even need to face #8 seed with 50+ wins. In fact, GS once couldn't make into playoff with 48 wins. In fact, Spurs dropped from #2 seed to #6 seed with the last game lost.

[ThoseBackPages]

People still watch ESPN?

[DajuanWagner]

People still watch ESPN?



Not really. I prefer NBA Game Time since it is all-basketball all-the-time. I, actually, prefer The Starters over ESPN. ESPN spends most of their time talking baseball and who got fired or who committed spousal abuse, etc. I would rather just hear all-basketball all-the-time. ESPN is filler.......

[rj.cataldo]

Lebron is a great talent and will end his career as a top 5 player. You can only beat who is put in front of you, but the fact remains that the East is the worst it has ever been (at least for about 30-40 years). Lebron has beat 7 50 win teams and two of them were this year.

As a Bulls fan I will be the first to say that Bulls team was not a GREAT team. Derrick had his moments, but they fell apart.

As for the Hawks, I am not sure who was picking them, but most people I heard never bought the Hawks going to the finals. They were equivalent to the 2010-2011 Bulls; a great team without true star power (at least Bulls had Rose at the time). They were a team that was better than the sum of their parts, but big players win championships. When ATL lost Korver their season ended, and they didn't have much of a shot to win before that.

The best team I can remember Lebron beating in the east was the Celtics at the end of their run in 2010-2011. He also get credit for those wins over the Spurs and Thunder.

[tfunkontheradio]

I don't think anyone can deny that Lebron James is a fantastic player and the best of his generation but it's not being a hater to notice his competition to get to the Finals has been historically weak. He can only beat the teams in front of him and he has done that throughout his career in the Eastern Bracket. He is sub .500 against the better west teams despite having hand selected super teams.


I'm gonna nitpick here, but if there's anything that Lebron haters love to do, it's nitpick.

He is actually right at .500 against those better west teams with a hand selected super team. If you're counting the '07 Cavs as a 'hand-picked super team,' you are FAR from correct. That was the worst team Lebron will ever drag to the Finals, and I say that full well believing he's got at least 2-3 more appearances in him before his career ends.

[elee712]

I'm gonna nitpick here, but if there's anything that Lebron haters love to do, it's nitpick.

He is actually right at .500 against those better west teams with a hand selected super team. If you're counting the '07 Cavs as a 'hand-picked super team,' you are FAR from correct. That was the worst team Lebron will ever drag to the Finals, and I say that full well believing he's got at least 2-3 more appearances in him before his career ends.

I wouldn't doubt that.

[BostonNut]

All I know is that I am on pins and needles waiting for the Bling-Bling Kid to chime in...

[Earvin32]

I think Lebron is the only top tier talent that owners have shown a willingness to build a win now team while sacrificing their future options. Sadly, the Lakers can't do that with Kobe's contract. The Nets tried it and failed miserably. Lebron can get other stars to accept less money to play with him. Would 90's stars have taken less money to play with Jordan with hopes for a ring? Teams are built differently today than they were back in the day. If you wanted a ring in the 60's and 70's, go play for Boston. The Lakers owned the 80's and early 2000's.
I would love to see more balance in the playoffs between the East and the West. I don't think Lebron has chosen to stay in the East because of the easier road to the finals the conference provides. The league should experiment for a year with a balanced playoff format. I bet owners in the East would have to do more to attract talent to their teams to stay competitive. 1-2 years after balancing the playoffs, I bet the talent level of the league would balance out more.

[GC1980]

I'm gonna nitpick here, but if there's anything that Lebron haters love to do, it's nitpick.

He is actually right at .500 against those better west teams with a hand selected super team. If you're counting the '07 Cavs as a 'hand-picked super team,' you are FAR from correct. That was the worst team Lebron will ever drag to the Finals, and I say that full well believing he's got at least 2-3 more appearances in him before his career ends.

Correct. My mistake. Sentiment is still the same but that '07 team was bad.

Again, at least from my perspective the hate is not for Lebron at all. I think he is an excellent player and he has improved and grown throughout his career, something anyone can respect. the issue is the hype and overstatement of his status in the history of the game.

[tfunkontheradio]

Correct. My mistake. Sentiment is still the same but that '07 team was bad.

Again, at least from my perspective the hate is not for Lebron at all. I think he is an excellent player and he has improved and grown throughout his career, something anyone can respect. the issue is the hype and overstatement of his status in the history of the game.

Here's something you aren't going to read in many posts on these forums...

I understand your point, I respect your opinion, and I agree with you for the most part.

I just still want the Cavs to win, and not for Lebron's legacy, but for the city of Cleveland.

[DajuanWagner]

Here's something you aren't going to read in many posts on these forums...

I understand your point, I respect your opinion, and I agree with you for the most part.

I just still want the Cavs to win, and not for Lebron's legacy, but for the city of Cleveland.



So, my question is: which city needs the win more? Or is that just a purely rhetorical question?

Cleveland is starving (especially in light of recent events happening currently in the city of Cleveland). It really is a win-win (IMO) because no one figured the Dubs to make the Finals and no one expected Cleveland to make the Finals. Most thought the Spurs or OKC and Chicago, but that didn't happen. I believe whichever team wins, will be great for either city. I think that experience will prevent the Dubs from winning this year coupled with Lebron making it to the 5th Finals in a row will be enough to FINALLY bring a championship to Cleveland.

[GC1980]

Here's something you aren't going to read in many posts on these forums...

I understand your point, I respect your opinion, and I agree with you for the most part.

I just still want the Cavs to win, and not for Lebron's legacy, but for the city of Cleveland.

Admitting a mistake or not blindly hating on LBJ? Either is rare around these parts :)!

I've never been to Cleveland but I bet it would be great for the city and the businesses and fans in it. Ditto for GS/Oak (until they move to that sexy new arena in SF that is).

I have a fondness for the Bay Area and LOVED the Run TMC era Warriors growing up so my gut wants them to win. I am working on huge stuff with the Cavs right now so my wallet wants them to win. Should be a great series either way.

[motu79]

Playing experience:
Kobe - 20 years
MJ - 17 years
Duncan - 19 years
Magic - 13 years
Bird - 14 years
LeBron - 13 years



I guess we all have to wait another 7 years before we get the real answer. Especially with half the list still actively playing. smh

[rats60]

And Magic went to the finals 9 times and only beat thirteen 50 win teams. The west was fairly terrible for about a dozen years. I agree that the east is weak, but aren't you supposed to beat teams inferior to yours and lebron seams to continue to do that. The only non - Celtics player to ever get to 5 straight finals? Pretty impressive no matter how much you hate him.

Magic only played 12 seasons. Lebron has already played 12 seasons. Jordan played 15, Duncan 18 and Kobe 19.

The only number that matters to Lebron's legacy is 2. Until he gets to 5 or 6 rings, Magic, MJ and Kobe will be considered superior players.

[dasiegel]

I think one thing people have to understand is that this stat is... a stat. It's not really that relevant of a stat either. I agree the east has been a cakewalk this yea for Lebron.

But the Cavs suck.

I'm saying that is a pro Cav pro Lebron way. It's not like these are the 96 Bulls beating inferior teams, this is Lebron with no Love, a hobbled Kyrie and a bunch of guys that were bounced from their former teams without a second thought. I can tell you as a Knick fan I'm STILL happy we got rid of JR Smith. But when he is with Lebron, he's a really good role player. Who ever cared about Timofey Mosgov the last few years? Those Tristan Thompson cards weren't exactly flying around BO last season when they were one of the worst teams.

Due to injuries the league is just down in general this year. Without a full year of Durant, Westbrook, Rose, Melo, Kobe the league is just not as talented as it should be. Even key rookies like Randle and Parker were out. Not anyone's fault.

Also have to factor in when the Celtics (and the 86 team might be the best ever) won those titles, they swept the Bulls who weren't good then, beat ATL 4-1 and then swept the Bucks 4-0 until they played Houston. Maybe it was because they were that good but that is an easy road with a lot of rest. Nobody's fault. Again this stat doesn't sway me in either direction.

[Highroller]

I think one thing people have to understand is that this stat is... a stat. It's not really that relevant of a stat either. I agree the east has been a cakewalk this yea for Lebron.

But the Cavs suck.

I'm saying that is a pro Cav pro Lebron way. It's not like these are the 96 Bulls beating inferior teams, this is Lebron with no Love, a hobbled Kyrie and a bunch of guys that were bounced from their former teams without a second thought. I can tell you as a Knick fan I'm STILL happy we got rid of JR Smith. But when he is with Lebron, he's a really good role player. Who ever cared about Timofey Moggov the last few years? Those Tristan Thompson cards weren't exactly flying around BO last season when they were one of the worst teams.

Due to injuries the league is just down in general this year. Without a full year of Durant, Westbrook, Rose, Melo, Kobe the league is just not as talented as it should be. Even key rookies like Randle and Parker were out. Not anyone's fault.

Also have to factor in when the Celtics (and the 86 team might be the best ever) won those titles, they swept the Bulls who weren't good then, beat ATL 4-1 and then swept the Bucks 4-0 until they played Houston. Maybe it was because they were that good but that is an easy road with a lot of rest. Nobody's fault. Again this stat doesn't sway me in either direction.

Worst team in the league, they should kick them out of the finals. :)!

[DajuanWagner]

I think one thing people have to understand is that this stat is... a stat. It's not really that relevant of a stat either. I agree the east has been a cakewalk this yea for Lebron.

But the Cavs suck.

I'm saying that is a pro Cav pro Lebron way. It's not like these are the 96 Bulls beating inferior teams, this is Lebron with no Love, a hobbled Kyrie and a bunch of guys that were bounced from their former teams without a second thought. I can tell you as a Knick fan I'm STILL happy we got rid of JR Smith. But when he is with Lebron, he's a really good role player. Who ever cared about Timofey Mosgov the last few years? Those Tristan Thompson cards weren't exactly flying around BO last season when they were one of the worst teams.

Due to injuries the league is just down in general this year. Without a full year of Durant, Westbrook, Rose, Melo, Kobe the league is just not as talented as it should be. Even key rookies like Randle and Parker were out. Not anyone's fault.

Also have to factor in when the Celtics (and the 86 team might be the best ever) won those titles, they swept the Bulls who weren't good then, beat ATL 4-1 and then swept the Bucks 4-0 until they played Houston. Maybe it was because they were that good but that is an easy road with a lot of rest. Nobody's fault. Again this stat doesn't sway me in either direction.



This. The key to any team is injuries and how the players who step up in place of those injured players do. We have 2 teams in the Finals dealing with injuries and we will see how those teams respond. Is either team going to roll over and play dead like Houston did in game 5? I doubt it. Should be a great Finals with maybe David verses Goliath and we all know how that story finished........

[GC1980]

No one will mistake these Cavs for the Showtime Lakers or 86 Celtics but can we dispense with this whole "the suck" or "its a group of misfits and journeymen" thing?

Mosgov was showing game since he went to the nuggets. Tristan was a top 5 pick that is really showing what he can do given minutes. Smith has always been a great talent, just a knucklehead. Shumpert is a top flight wing defender capable of hitting open shots. Kyrie is an all star and was hobbled these past two series but played great against boston and early against chi. What is so bad about this team compared to the competition they faced?

Boston was terrible. Chicago was working with a hobbled Noah and an injured Gasol, not to mentioned a far from 100% DRose. ATL just flat out stunk up the ECF (partly on them and hugely on the strength of the Cavs though). This Cavs squad was favored to win it all and was still the favorite in every series even with the injuries. Lebron is playing great but I'm sick of this whole Cavs are a terrible team rhetoric we are hearing. It's all being sold to you by ESPN to hype LBJ and generate clicks.

They are as strong as any team in the field and have been since day 1.

[tke1600]

Well well well look who sits atop that list ;)

It should have said Shaq/Kobe

[dasiegel]

No one will mistake these Cavs for the Showtime Lakers or 86 Celtics but can we dispense with this whole "the suck" or "its a group of misfits and journeymen" thing?

Mosgov was showing game since he went to the nuggets. Tristan was a top 5 pick that is really showing what he can do given minutes. Smith has always been a great talent, just a knucklehead. Shumpert is a top flight wing defender capable of hitting open shots. Kyrie is an all star and was hobbled these past two series but played great against boston and early against chi. What is so bad about this team compared to the competition they faced?

Boston was terrible. Chicago was working with a hobbled Noah and an injured Gasol, not to mentioned a far from 100% DRose. ATL just flat out stunk up the ECF (partly on them and hugely on the strength of the Cavs though). This Cavs squad was favored to win it all and was still the favorite in every series even with the injuries. Lebron is playing great but I'm sick of this whole Cavs are a terrible team rhetoric we are hearing. It's all being sold to you by ESPN to hype LBJ and generate clicks.

They are as strong as any team in the field and have been since day 1.

No we can't dismiss them as what they are. I'm not taking any credit away from them. If people... certain people... ... ... read my post like I think they are undeserving of being where they are that is not what I'm saying AT ALL.

But they are: Lebron, a hobbled Kyrie and a bunch of role players. You can't just say Mosgov was showing game since he went to the Nuggets like it's fact. He was a role player, an afterthought, they liked Nurkic more and played small a bunch too. I don't even want to keep repeating what I have been in other trades about the Knick trade guys. Trust me, Knick fans don't even want them back after watching how well they have played, they weren't doing this and couldn't in NY, that's all Lebron! Whether they have talent individually or not, role players look great with true top superstars. Bruce Bowens, Steve Kerrs, John Paxons, Danny Greens, Mario Chalmers, Mike Millers, etc. I do like some of these role players... like I would love my team to have Thompson but pretty much for rebounding.

Look ask yourself what would happen if you took Lebron off that team Without Love, you basically have a team slightly better than last year's 33 win team from last year, definitely not a title contender.

Lebron is that good.

Their path was very easy.

But they absolutely are the best team in the East. They worked hard to turn it around and they have a great chance in the finals. They didn't start that way but they ended up being a truly great team and will really challenge GSW.

[Highroller]

No we can't dismiss them as what they are. I'm not taking any credit away from them. If people... certain people... ... ... read my post like I think they are undeserving of being where they are that is not what I'm saying AT ALL.

But they are: Lebron, a hobbled Kyrie and a bunch of role players. You can't just say Mosgov was showing game since he went to the Nuggets like it's fact. He was a role player, an afterthought, they liked Nurkic more and played small a bunch too. I don't even want to keep repeating what I have been in other trades about the Knick trade guys. Trust me, Knick fans don't even want them back after watching how well they have played, they weren't doing this and couldn't in NY, that's all Lebron! Whether they have talent individually or not, role players look great with true top superstars. Bruce Bowens, Steve Kerrs, John Paxons, Danny Greens, Mario Chalmers, Mike Millers, etc. I do like some of these role players... like I would love my team to have Thompson but pretty much for rebounding.

Look ask yourself what would happen if you took Lebron off that team Without Love, you basically have a team slightly better than last year's 33 win team from last year, definitely not a title contender.

Lebron is that good.

Their path was very easy.

But they absolutely are the best team in the East. They worked hard to turn it around and they have a great chance in the finals. They didn't start that way but they ended up being a truly great team and will really challenge GSW.

Another terrible statement. This team wouldn't even be close to what it is now personnel wise. The year before they had the number 1 overall pick in the draft, no kidding they wouldn't be contending for a title. They made trades to suit LeBron and his playing style. Anyone that watches basketball knows that.

[CubKings]

That's why he would never go to the west. He knows he can just build super teams in the east and cruise to the Finals. His super teaming is wack as hell.

[motu79]

That's why he would never go to the west. He knows he can just build super teams in the east and cruise to the Finals. His super teaming is wack as hell.


You don't think LeBron could make the Finals out of the West?

Any team he is part of is a 'super' team, regardless of division. The path in the East is easier, but he's making it to the Finals out of the West too if he so desired, so...

[rats60]

You don't think LeBron could make the Finals out of the West?

Any team he is part of is a 'super' team, regardless of division. The path in the East is easier, but he's making it to the Finals out of the West too if he so desired, so...

If he can't beat a West team in the Finals, how is he making it out of the West? Maybe twice, but that's it. No way he gets to 6 Finals.

[Carder23]

That's why he would never go to the west. He knows he can just build super teams in the east and cruise to the Finals. His super teaming is wack as hell.

LMAO. LeBron is 10x beter than Jordan ever was. Jordan would put up 15 PPG in this era of NBA. Whoever doesn't guard LeBron can sag off and help way easier than in the past. If they did this when Jordan was playing, they would call illegal defense every time. Jordan would be a sixth man if he was playing now. Like a J.R. Smith type.

[CubKings]

LMAO. LeBron is 10x beter than Jordan ever was. Jordan would put up 15 PPG in this era of NBA. Whoever doesn't guard LeBron can sag off and help way easier than in the past. If they did this when Jordan was playing, they would call illegal defense every time. Jordan would be a sixth man if he was playing now. Like a J.R. Smith type.

I almost don't even want to quote this, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.............








HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[troygoesdeep]

You guys do realize that he has some career ahead of him also? He will pass a few of the guys on the list and I'm sure they left a few guys off to make the stat look even worse. you are always going to be able to find something that shows that someone isn't as good as they really are. The fact remains LBJ got to 5 in a row without always the best of team.

[IronMonkey415]

What other stats will they come up for Lebron?
Lebron FG% up by 40% after biting his nails.

(We all know he leads the league in nail biting, we see it every time when he is on the bench)

[ThoseBackPages]

LMAO. LeBron is 10x beter than Jordan ever was. Jordan would put up 15 PPG in this era of NBA. Whoever doesn't guard LeBron can sag off and help way easier than in the past. If they did this when Jordan was playing, they would call illegal defense every time. Jordan would be a sixth man if he was playing now. Like a J.R. Smith type.

wow. just. wow.

[rhigh2390]

LMAO. LeBron is 10x beter than Jordan ever was. Jordan would put up 15 PPG in this era of NBA. Whoever doesn't guard LeBron can sag off and help way easier than in the past. If they did this when Jordan was playing, they would call illegal defense every time. Jordan would be a sixth man if he was playing now. Like a J.R. Smith type.

HAHA I've seen your homerism on lebron, but you're being sarcastic here right???

[DigitalTurk]

How about Lebron 4-0 when he wears his red socks.

[FISHLEGBOOTS]

Jordan would be a sixth man if he was playing now. Like a J.R. Smith type.
http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w365/FISHLEGBOOTS/tumblr_lecqtbvxZp1qe0eclo1_r5_500.gif

[GC1980]

LMAO. LeBron is 10x beter than Jordan ever was. Jordan would put up 15 PPG in this era of NBA. Whoever doesn't guard LeBron can sag off and help way easier than in the past. If they did this when Jordan was playing, they would call illegal defense every time. Jordan would be a sixth man if he was playing now. Like a J.R. Smith type.

This was actually a mature, intelligent thread pertaining to lebron for the most part, for once... Until this gem.

If joking, bravo. If serious, good lord just pick another sport.

[k13]

LeBron has not dominated the NBA the way past greats have. Guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell...the kind of guys who, when they were around, nobody could ever win against them.

Worse than that, he's spent his entire career playing in the wussbag present-day Eastern Conference. He's used to playing in a league where he can go barreling blindly right into a crowd of defenders and have free throws handed to him on a silver platter. He would have shattered like a fragile porcelain mouse back in the day where the opposing player could clothesline you and everyone would just say "Get off the floor already, you pansy."

Jordan got his ass beat on yearly basis....

Bird magic jordan lost so many playoff series it's unreal...

[tacoma34]

This thread....
http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2015/03/The-birthday-GIFS.gif?gs=a

[jphj012]

It's funny how people can compare Lebron and Jordan. Lebron will never be better than MJ. MJ has never lost in the Finals. It's true Lebron has better status on rebound and assists than MJ, but that is not everything. If Lebron played in the 90's era, he would not have won a single championship. A technical foul these days was basically a regular foul in the 90's. Basketball in the 90's was a lot more rough and physical versus today. These days, refs blows whistles left and right on the slightest foul. Lebron can be considered as one of the greatest, but he will never surpass Jordan's legacy.

[elee712]

It's funny how people can compare Lebron and Jordan. Lebron will never be better than MJ. MJ has never lost in the Finals. It's true Lebron has better status on rebound and assists than MJ, but that is not everything. If Lebron played in the 90's era, he would not have won a single championship. A technical foul these days was basically a regular foul in the 90's. Basketball in the 90's was a lot more rough and physical versus today. These days, refs blows whistles left and right on the slightest foul. Lebron can be considered as one of the greatest, but he will never surpass Jordan's legacy.

Based on this logic there can never be anyone better than jordan now and forever.

[Carder23]

It's funny how people can compare Lebron and Jordan. Lebron will never be better than MJ. MJ has never lost in the Finals. It's true Lebron has better status on rebound and assists than MJ, but that is not everything. If Lebron played in the 90's era, he would not have won a single championship. A technical foul these days was basically a regular foul in the 90's. Basketball in the 90's was a lot more rough and physical versus today. These days, refs blows whistles left and right on the slightest foul. Lebron can be considered as one of the greatest, but he will never surpass Jordan's legacy.

Have you seen LeBron? He's the biggest physical freak of nature in the NBA. He would thrive in the 90s

[dasiegel]

Another terrible statement. This team wouldn't even be close to what it is now personnel wise. The year before they had the number 1 overall pick in the draft, no kidding they wouldn't be contending for a title. They made trades to suit LeBron and his playing style. Anyone that watches basketball knows that.

You're a joke. All you do in any thread is troll. You have to add "another terrible statement?" :rolleyes: Grow up. Try your luck in the Bryant thread, this clearly isn't for you.

[CubKings]

Have you seen LeBron? He's the biggest physical freak of nature in the NBA. He would thrive in the 90s

Have you seen how much LeBron cries now? Imagine if he tried to take it to the rack against Laimbeer and Mahorn 4 times a year and again in the playoffs..... Only thing good that would come with that is his endorsement deal with Kleenex. For such a big freak athlete, he sure cries and tried to get pampered like he is Spud Webb's size. It's like me barreling through a bunch of 8th graders and complaining when they smack my arms.

[Braswell10]

Have you seen how much LeBron cries now? Imagine if he tried to take it to the rack against Laimbeer and Mahorn 4 times a year and again in the playoffs..... Only thing good that would come with that is his endorsement deal with Kleenex. For such a big freak athlete, he sure cries and tried to get pampered like he is Spud Webb's size. It's like me barreling through a bunch of 8th graders and complaining when they smack my arms.

Many people do that. It is today's game. If Jordan was still playing, he would probably be doing the same thing.

[rhigh2390]

Have you seen how much LeBron cries now? Imagine if he tried to take it to the rack against Laimbeer and Mahorn 4 times a year and again in the playoffs..... Only thing good that would come with that is his endorsement deal with Kleenex. For such a big freak athlete, he sure cries and tried to get pampered like he is Spud Webb's size. It's like me barreling through a bunch of 8th graders and complaining when they smack my arms.

Not to mention Hakeem, the Admiral, the Chief, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo.

Jordan would average 50 in today's game with how much he could drive to the bucket and with all the anticipation fouls.