Roberto Clemente Autographed Cards

[ngnichols]

Ok, I currently have a 1966 Topps - Roberto Clemente at JSA being certified and I wanted to see what you guys thought the value could possibly be on something like this IF it comes back as authentic.

It actually says "Best Wishes, Roberto Clemente" on the lower right corner of the card.

There are several PSA/DNA certified cards on eBay right now that have astronomical asking prices on them. Are these even realistic prices or is that simply the range for his stuff. I get the fact that he's a HOF player that's been dead for several decades now and autographed stuff from him is obviously hard to come by, but some of those prices seem a bit high. I'm not complaining because I'd love for mine to be authentic and be able to ask/get those types of prices. I've just never had something that "high-end" before.

I was also shocked at the price JSA charges to authenticate his signature. I believe it was $170.00

I submitted the following items to them:

Alonzo Mourning - Skybox Autographics
1966 Topps - Roberto Clemente - Auto
1966 Topps - Hank Aaron - Auto
1966 Topps - Gil Hodges - Auto
1966 Topps - Harmon Killebrew - Auto
1965 Philadelphia - Mel Renfro - Auto

Also, is it worth getting the cards themselves graded after the signatures have been authenticated or just let them stand on their own merits? The 1966's are in relatively good shape. The guys at BGS said to just let them stand on their own, but I'm always open to other opinions. I'm hoping to have these back on Monday. The JSA rep that contacted me about the additional cost of the Clemente (and Gil Hodges :rolleyes:) told me that they'd likely have the BGS shipment done and shipped out by Friday. My rep at BGS is leaving for the National on Tuesday so I'm really hoping it's there before he leaves. It's not like I can't go get them once he leaves, but it will just be easier/quicker for him to do it for me since there is a process they go through once they receive a JSA shipment back that takes like a day or two for them to go through everything.

I'd like to see some thoughts on this. Thanks.

[charnick]

i personally like all my high end vintage to be graded, even if it's PC. it ensures the value when down the road, and unless you think your card is a 1-3, anything over that is a solid grade for a 1966. and if it's high grade 7+, even better. that being said, with a vintage auto like this, BGS might hit the auto hard (like 6-9, esp if it's in pen or pencil) and PSA/DNA might have been a better choice. They can grade the card and authenticate the auto and have it in a red flip slab like regular non-autos. But that's just my preference, don't think you can go wrong either way, especially if it legit. best of luck!

[marl1220]

"I was also shocked at the price JSA charges to authenticate his signature. I believe it was $170.00"

I also find this ridiculous. Charging different prices to authenticate different players is a joke. Just another way these companies have you over a barrel. :rolleyes:

[Deadshot]

I don't think anyone will hit any of the high BINs but I would think they are being dangled out there for set collectors. Regardless, I would say you're still looking at a couple of thousand at least bare minimum. I've seen signed photos in auction for about $1500 and a signed rookie sell for nearly $6k. Here's a 1968 Topps that ended for $1800. (http://oct13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=61744)

[ngnichols]

i personally like all my high end vintage to be graded, even if it's PC. it ensures the value when down the road, and unless you think your card is a 1-3, anything over that is a solid grade for a 1966. and if it's high grade 7+, even better. that being said, with a vintage auto like this, BGS might hit the auto hard (like 6-9, esp if it's in pen or pencil) and PSA/DNA might have been a better choice. They can grade the card and authenticate the auto and have it in a red flip slab like regular non-autos. But that's just my preference, don't think you can go wrong either way, especially if it legit. best of luck!

Each of those cards are definitely way better than 3's. I'd say they are in the 5 to 6 range.

I may just have them graded when I get them back next week. Just on the fence about it.

"I was also shocked at the price JSA charges to authenticate his signature. I believe it was $170.00"

I also find this ridiculous. Charging different prices to authenticate different players is a joke. Just another way these companies have you over a barrel. :rolleyes:

They actually called me on Monday to inform me that those two would be an additional charge. They had already charged me $140 ($20/auto) already. The guy was like "Yeah, it's going to be another $150 for Clemente and another $50 for Hodges." Needless to say that made me pause for a few moments and I told him I needed to call him back. I figured it was worth the risk given the possibility of the reward and so I called him back and told him to go ahead.

[aro13]

I also find this ridiculous. Charging different prices to authenticate different players is a joke. Just another way these companies have you over a barrel.

I believe it has to do with liability. There is a risk if they get a Clemente signature wrong. You would hope they spend more time on that signature.

[ngnichols]

I believe it has to do with liability. There is a risk if they get a Clemente signature wrong. You would hope they spend more time on that signature.

Yeah, I mean I get the whole charging for who it is, but it's still kinda lame.

To be honest, they really didn't spend a lot of time on stuff when I was there with them at BGS a few weeks ago. They had like 3 guys there (Spence was one of the 3) and he was the only one doing the authentication. One other guy was doing paperwork and the other guy was the label guy.

I took in a few items for myself and some family members. I only had one thing get kicked at it was a dual signed Ken Griffey Jr. and A-Rod ball that had both sigs right on the sweet spot. It had a COA with it already, but it was from a dinky little card shop so I knew that wouldn't be worth jack squat for someone who was wanting to pay legit money for something like that. Needless to say I was disappointed to have to tell the person that owned it that they wouldn't pass it. :o:mad:

[marl1220]

I believe it has to do with liability. There is a risk if they get a Clemente signature wrong. You would hope they spend more time on that signature.

You would hope that they'd make sure they get all their authentications correct. I understand what you're saying, and you're probably right, it's why they do it that way. But if you've got a company saying "well this is a well known player so I'd better make sure I get this one right" when they do their authenticating, then they're in the wrong business.

[rats60]

Signed Clemente cards go for 2-3k A 65 topps recently sold for 2629 in a Heritage Auction.

[ngnichols]

Signed Clemente cards go for 2-3k A 65 topps recently sold for 2629 in a Heritage Auction.

That's about what I was thinking.

He definitely signed a significant amount of stuff with "Best wishes Roberto Clemente" so that does match up in terms of habits of signing.

[Clemente]

Does JSA Slabs the card? I also have a clemente card signed and I been devating in using PSA so they can Slap it. But is like $160-170 also...

[YankeesKRD]

Does JSA Slabs the card? I also have a clemente card signed and I been devating in using PSA so they can Slap it. But is like $160-170 also...

Definitely get PSA to slab it. I got a Roger Maris auto & an Elston Howard authenticated and slabbed by PSA and it looks gorgeous.

[rats60]

Does JSA Slabs the card? I also have a clemente card signed and I been devating in using PSA so they can Slap it. But is like $160-170 also...

You should get people's opinions before sending it in. Post scans on here and net54. There are plenty of people who can make sure you don't send in an obvious forgery.

[ngnichols]

Does JSA Slabs the card? I also have a clemente card signed and I been devating in using PSA so they can Slap it. But is like $160-170 also...

Yes, it is slabbed in a BGS holder.

PSA is garbage to me how their slabs are and I'm not paying a fee to just to have the "privilege" to grade my cards and then another fee on top of that to get a card graded or authenticate an autograph. They are no better than anyone else.

[adamsbetter]

Yes, it is slabbed in a BGS holder.

PSA is garbage to me how their slabs are and I'm not paying a fee to just to have the "privilege" to grade my cards and then another fee on top of that to get a card graded or authenticate an autograph. They are no better than anyone else.

if you are looking at it from a value and resell standpoint, then yes, they are better then EVERYONE else.

[ngnichols]

if you are looking at it from a value and resell standpoint, then yes, they are better then EVERYONE else.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing they do or have that is better than anyone else. In fact, I'd argue that you really can't tell whether or not their cards are what the grades say they are because of how the cards can move and be damaged inside their holders. The internal sleeve that BGS/BVG has virtually ensures the card will remain the same no matter what AND it can't be tampered with/altered.

[Brewer Andy]

You would hope that they'd make sure they get all their authentications correct. I understand what you're saying, and you're probably right, it's why they do it that way. But if you've got a company saying "well this is a well known player so I'd better make sure I get this one right" when they do their authenticating, then they're in the wrong business.

I was thinking the higher price tags for those autos may also be in place to keep people from sending in cards they know are forged. For $20 it's worth the risk for a big pay day. At $170 a pop you might not be as likely to try to pull one over and be out cash. Might be a factor along with the others, value added, etc.

[Skipscards]

Signed Clemente cards go for 2-3k A 65 topps recently sold for 2629 in a Heritage Auction.

This. The Clementes listed on eBay are mostly pipe-dreams. He's immensely popular and died too young, but if you are looking to sell, this is the range.

[ngnichols]

This. The Clementes listed on eBay are mostly pipe-dreams. He's immensely popular and died too young, but if you are looking to sell, this is the range.

Cool. I figured some of those asking prices were a little in the clouds. They are nice cards and clean sigs, but that's A LOT of scratch.

I've got my fingers, toes, and everything else that can possibly be crossed crossed that it and all the others are legit. I bought them in a lot about 3 weeks ago from someone who's Dad was an owner of a card shop. He died and this was some of the stuff that he had left over and she wasn't going to sell from his estate. She needed money in a bad way and so I came and bought all she had. It was a ridiculous lot to say the least. I've got about 70 cards from 1948, 1949, and 1950 Bowman - including a Stan Musial RC and Phil Rizzuto RC among many other high-end vintage cards.

[adamsbetter]

I'm sorry, but there is nothing they do or have that is better than anyone else. In fact, I'd argue that you really can't tell whether or not their cards are what the grades say they are because of how the cards can move and be damaged inside their holders. The internal sleeve that BGS/BVG has virtually ensures the card will remain the same no matter what AND it can't be tampered with/altered.

I said from a value and resell standpoint. Your opinion doesn't matter from that standpoint. It's a fact that PSA far outsells BGS in the vintage and authentication market.

[rats60]

I said from a value and resell standpoint. Your opinion doesn't matter from that standpoint. It's a fact that PSA far outsells BGS in the vintage and authentication market.

For vintage cards you are correct. For autographs JSA brings just as much as PSA. I would never send a vintage card to Beckett, autographs I would send to JSA over PSA.

[marl1220]

For vintage cards you are correct. For autographs JSA brings just as much as PSA. I would never send a vintage card to Beckett, autographs I would send to JSA over PSA.

For vintage I'd go with SGC, but that's just me.

[callou2131]

Beckett and vintage don't mix, and recently sgc values are usually 1 grade lower than psa ie sgc 84 (7) has the value of psa 6.

[Morgoth]

Signed Clemente cards go for 2-3k A 65 topps recently sold for 2629 in a Heritage Auction.

Not really, in some big auctions they may go this high for a super nice bold auto and EXMT card or better.

I have personally purchased 3 autos and all were under 2K.

[marinocollector]

You would hope that they'd make sure they get all their authentications correct. I understand what you're saying, and you're probably right, it's why they do it that way. But if you've got a company saying "well this is a well known player so I'd better make sure I get this one right" when they do their authenticating, then they're in the wrong business.

The idea to charge more for more valuable players is because its to deter forgers from trying to pass along their work. Authentication is very serious, and if it cost $20 to authenticate a Clemente, forgers would flood BGS with 100 autos hoping 2 or 3 will get a yes and double and triple their money. You need better experts and stronger understanding of knowledge to know these players real autos too. Its not like someone just looks and says yes. Its a science. I know you'll counter with something along the lines of, if they are professionals 0 of the 100 should pass, but you start overworking and rushing the greatest of experts, you're bound to have a mistake.

[ngnichols]

I said from a value and resell standpoint. Your opinion doesn't matter from that standpoint. It's a fact that PSA far outsells BGS in the vintage and authentication market.

This is my personal opinion, the PSA is the gold standard thing is simply a myth. It's Coke vs. Pepsi. I couldn't give two craps about a registry or whatever else. I'm out to deliver as premium of a product as I can to people who are looking for specific items. PSA doesn't have any better ability to grade a card than Beckett does and vice-versa. There's no magic fairy-dust that PSA is able to sprinkle onto a card to make it any better than it originally was before it was graded/slabbed. If you want to overpay for something, go right on ahead.

[Bars and Bar]

What should I expect to pay for a legitimate Clemente signature on anything (Card, Photo, Paper, Cut)?

[free2131]

This is my personal opinion, the PSA is the gold standard thing is simply a myth. It's Coke vs. Pepsi.

Except that it's not. There is empirical evidence that show PSA outsells BGS when it comes to vintage. There are also several threads that show vintage collectors prefer PSA over BGS. You can have your opinions on whether that SHOULD be the case, but you can't have an opinion that differs from actual statistical data.

That being said, I hope your Clemente comes back authentic and I hope you either cherish it or get what you want out of it in terms of value.

[ngnichols]

Except that it's not. There is empirical evidence that show PSA outsells BGS when it comes to vintage. There are also several threads that show vintage collectors prefer PSA over BGS. You can have your opinions on whether that SHOULD be the case, but you can't have an opinion that differs from actual statistical data.

That being said, I hope your Clemente comes back authentic and I hope you either cherish it or get what you want out of it in terms of value.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not because they are better at grading or anything else. They simply have a registry that's better than BGS's. Sorry, that's not something that should give each card a premium over something that's been graded the same somewhere else.

[Morgoth]

What should I expect to pay for a legitimate Clemente signature on anything (Card, Photo, Paper, Cut)?

You might be able to get a nice cut for $800 to $1000. Cards are more expensive, $1500 plus. SS Balls and Photos are very pricey. Bats are basically nonexistent.

[Clemente]

I finally got around to take a picute of my Clemente card auto. I had it for about 10-15 years. I want to send it to PSA and get it slab but I keep thinking about the cost.. lol Let me know what you guys think. thanks Robert

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x369/ClementeCollector/NFT%20PC/Clemente%20PC%20NFT/image.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/ClementeCollector/media/NFT%20PC/Clemente%20PC%20NFT/image.jpg.html)

[Chicosbailbonds]

I would have it authenticated for insurance purposes at the very least.

[ngnichols]

Mine did not come back as authentic. :( More than likely a clubhouse sig. Quite disappointing as everything else that I submitted to JSA came back good. Clemente is quite expensive to get authenticated so just be aware that you will have to pay several hundred dollars just to have them look at it and give you a pass or fail. That's why you need to really know it's legit to justify spending the money.

[Clemente]

Mine did not come back as authentic. :( More than likely a clubhouse sig. Quite disappointing as everything else that I submitted to JSA came back good. Clemente is quite expensive to get authenticated so just be aware that you will have to pay several hundred dollars just to have them look at it and give you a pass or fail. That's why you need to really know it's legit to justify spending the money.

Could you post a picture of yours? Im curious. Thanks

[ngnichols]

Could you post a picture of yours? Im curious. Thanks

Yeah, I'll post it up once I get home from work later on this evening.

[ngnichols]

Sorry for not posting these sooner. Just started a new job so been a little busy.

Here you go:

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/B6E2FEDE-A3CB-4C2B-8428-307F24AC2E90_zpsuubwxlif.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/6404A8B4-95E9-4590-B12A-65977B6CCD90_zpsuph5bt79.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/800CEED9-9B7B-4587-AF6C-EDC80AA92B26_zpsxoewmapo.jpg

[jcmel323]

Sorry for not posting these sooner. Just started a new job so been a little busy.

Here you go:

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/B6E2FEDE-A3CB-4C2B-8428-307F24AC2E90_zpsuubwxlif.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/6404A8B4-95E9-4590-B12A-65977B6CCD90_zpsuph5bt79.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/800CEED9-9B7B-4587-AF6C-EDC80AA92B26_zpsxoewmapo.jpg

i believe clemente's brother was caught one time signing cards. This could be one of those autos.

[ngnichols]

i believe clemente's brother was caught one time signing cards. This could be one of those autos.

Yeah, I have no idea. I bought it in a lot of a bunch of vintage and modern stuff here locally in town. All of the other 1966 Topps I had came back as good from JSA and all of them were signed in the same blue ball-point pen.

Just tough to get a Clemente auto certed without some sort of additional proof to go with it. Too much liability for JSA to just cert his stuff with him having been dead for such a long period of time and his stuff being worth so much because of that. Sucks it wouldn't pass, but the risk was worth the chance of them passing it. I've already sold one of the autos and that already covered my certification expenses.

[chippv]

Authentic version for example
http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag340/pvelardo/output_zpsmx1ggilo.jpg (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/pvelardo/media/output_zpsmx1ggilo.jpg.html)

[Morgoth]

Here is mine, even though it's in a bgs holder it has a psa/dna authentication.
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u256/eyeofhorus777/ClementeAuto.jpg

You can do a psa/dna quick opinion if you put it up on eBay.

I am interested if ever selling the 68 clemente.

[Clemente]

Sorry for not posting these sooner. Just started a new job so been a little busy.

Here you go:

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/B6E2FEDE-A3CB-4C2B-8428-307F24AC2E90_zpsuubwxlif.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/6404A8B4-95E9-4590-B12A-65977B6CCD90_zpsuph5bt79.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/ngnichols1983/Clemente%20Auto/800CEED9-9B7B-4587-AF6C-EDC80AA92B26_zpsxoewmapo.jpg

At least the card is in really nice shape! Is just tough to tell with the autos. I will send mine soon. Wish me luck! I will keep you updated in what comes back..