Larry Bird Magic Johnson Lebron James

[centrelink]

From 1 to 3 who was the better player overall. Please rank and state why?

[tristan20]

Magic without a doubt, Lebron then Bird.

[Hoopdreams69]

magic is a true legend not sure if we will ever see another like him
1 simple reason he has 5 rings

Magic without a doubt, Lebron then Bird.

[vinsanity15]

Bron all day secound best player ever when it all said and done assuming he wins another ring or 2. He is just the all around package and the best athlete we have seen. Lebron is better than magic in everything except passing and Lebron is freaking good at that to. Better rebounder Lebron. Better scorer not even close Lebron. Better Defebder not even close Lebron. It Lebron all day, I'm not crapping on magic but it true. Magic is top 5 all day for sure though and so is bird they both are in my top 5. But there both not better than Lebron.

1 Lebron
2bird
3 magic

[JasonM32]

These are simply my opinions, please don't get your feathers rustled if you don't agree. All three of these guys are among the best to ever play. It may not look like it but I'm a fan of all three of them. If I'm crapping on one of them it's only because I've been asked to explain why I think the other ones are better. I happen to be a Laker fan so obviously that will shape my opinions a little bit as well.

1. Magic Johnson

*Best point guard of all time/Most assists per game in history
*NCAA Champion in the biggest college basketball game ever
*Was in the Finals almost every year of his NBA career 9 out of 12 years
*Won 5 rings against dynasty level competition Sixers/Celtics/Pistons
*Beat Bird in the NCAA Championship and 2 out of 3 times in the NBA Finals
*Almost averaged a triple double in 1982 18.6/9.6/9.5/2.7
*1980 Finals Game 6 42/15/7 as a rookie without Kareem
*1987 Finals Junior Skyhook beats Celtics
*Very well could have had 6 rings if no pulled hammy in 89 against Detroit
*Tremendous leader
*Place winning above individual accolades
*Suppressed his own game to win and get other players involved

2. Bird

*One of the best all around players ever
*One of the best shooters ever
*Played on one of the best teams ever in the 1986 Celtics
*Tremendous leader
*Great basketball IQ
*Unfortunately Magic's teams usually got the better of him

3. Lebron

*Amazing talent
*Very unselfish player
*Very versatile on offense and defense
*Greatness is very much a result of his physical dominance
*Lost in the NBA Finals twice as often as he won
*Split Cleveland and formed a super team in Miami
*Won 2 rings that in my opinion were a little "cheap"
*Split Miami for greener pastures after their title run was over
*Came up small in some key postseason games and moments
*Got passive in some key postseason games and moments
*Has a tendency to cramp up in the NBA Finals
*Often emasculates and ignores his coaches
*Says stupid things and then contradicts himself
*Blames others for his failures
*Fancies himself a player/coach/GM

[Hegotgame15]

Watch LeBron's 100 best games.
Watch Magic's 100 best games.
Watch Bird's 100 best games.

Get your own answer!

[pac213up]

Magic & Bird are fairly equal to me and I would put them slightly ahead of Lebron at this point.

[freethrowtommy]

It is really hard to judge because they all play a different style.

In the clutch to make one shot? Give me Bird.

In the clutch to make the right play? Give me Magic.

I want to wait until LeBron retires to get him above either of those guys. He has quite a bit of career left.

[rogersfan60]

It is really hard to judge because they all play a different style.

In the clutch to make one shot? Give me Bird.

In the clutch to make the right play? Give me Magic.

I want to wait until LeBron retires to get him above either of those guys. He has quite a bit of career left.

Perfectly said, really need more time on lebron before we make this decision. All three guys VERY good, thats some thing no one on here will argue about.

[asujbl]

Now if we're asking on just pure talent? It probably goes LeBron, Magic, Bird.
Now if we're asking on pure basketball skill? It probably goes Magic, Bird, LeBron
Now if we're talking, in their prime, who are you starting a team with? It probably goes Magic, LeBron, Bird
Now if we're talking about who will have the best career? I'll answer when 1 of them isn't still playing

[asujbl]

Watch LeBron's 100 best games.
Watch Magic's 100 best games.
Watch Bird's 100 best games.

Get your own answer!

So essentially 1 season, plus maybe a round of playoffs, is enough to answer this question?

Hilarious.

[markinca]

If we're talking overall career value, it's Lebron, and frankly it's not close. You guys do realize that Lebron's already played more career minutes than both of them, right? And his career ain't even close to being done.

[6celtics33]

These are simply my opinions, please don't get your feathers rustled if you don't agree. All three of these guys are among the best to ever play. It may not look like it but I'm a fan of all three of them. If I'm crapping on one of them it's only because I've been asked to explain why I think the other ones are better. I happen to be a Laker fan so obviously that will shape my opinions a little bit as well.

1. Magic Johnson

*Best point guard of all time/Most assists per game in history
*NCAA Champion in the biggest college basketball game ever
*Was in the Finals almost every year of his NBA career 9 out of 12 years
*Won 5 rings against dynasty level competition Sixers/Celtics/Pistons
*Beat Bird in the NCAA Championship and 2 out of 3 times in the NBA Finals
*Almost averaged a triple double in 1982 18.6/9.6/9.5/2.7
*1980 Finals Game 6 42/15/7 as a rookie without Kareem
*1987 Finals Junior Skyhook beats Celtics
*Very well could have had 6 rings if no pulled hammy in 89 against Detroit
*Tremendous leader
*Place winning above individual accolades
*Suppressed his own game to win and get other players involved

2. Bird

*One of the best all around players ever
*One of the best shooters ever
*Played on one of the best teams ever in the 1986 Celtics
*Tremendous leader
*Great basketball IQ
*Unfortunately Magic's teams usually got the better of him

3. Lebron

*Amazing talent
*Very unselfish player
*Very versatile on offense and defense
*Greatness is very much a result of his physical dominance
*Lost in the NBA Finals twice as often as he won
*Split Cleveland and formed a super team in Miami
*Won 2 rings that in my opinion were a little "cheap"
*Split Miami for greener pastures after their title run was over
*Came up small in some key postseason games and moments
*Got passive in some key postseason games and moments
*Has a tendency to cramp up in the NBA Finals
*Often emasculates and ignores his coaches
*Says stupid things and then contradicts himself
*Blames others for his failures
*Fancies himself a player/coach/GM

My son.... You have the vision of clarity. The media hype has not brainwashed you. You are free.

[asujbl]

These are simply my opinions, please don't get your feathers rustled if you don't agree. All three of these guys are among the best to ever play. It may not look like it but I'm a fan of all three of them. If I'm crapping on one of them it's only because I've been asked to explain why I think the other ones are better. I happen to be a Laker fan so obviously that will shape my opinions a little bit as well.

1. Magic Johnson

*Best point guard of all time/Most assists per game in history
*NCAA Champion in the biggest college basketball game ever
*Was in the Finals almost every year of his NBA career 9 out of 12 years
*Won 5 rings against dynasty level competition Sixers/Celtics/Pistons
*Beat Bird in the NCAA Championship and 2 out of 3 times in the NBA Finals
*Almost averaged a triple double in 1982 18.6/9.6/9.5/2.7
*1980 Finals Game 6 42/15/7 as a rookie without Kareem
*1987 Finals Junior Skyhook beats Celtics
*Very well could have had 6 rings if no pulled hammy in 89 against Detroit
*Tremendous leader
*Place winning above individual accolades
*Suppressed his own game to win and get other players involved

2. Bird

*One of the best all around players ever
*One of the best shooters ever
*Played on one of the best teams ever in the 1986 Celtics
*Tremendous leader
*Great basketball IQ
*Unfortunately Magic's teams usually got the better of him

3. Lebron

*Amazing talent
*Very unselfish player
*Very versatile on offense and defense
*Greatness is very much a result of his physical dominance
*Lost in the NBA Finals twice as often as he won
*Split Cleveland and formed a super team in Miami
*Won 2 rings that in my opinion were a little "cheap"
*Split Miami for greener pastures after their title run was over
*Came up small in some key postseason games and moments
*Got passive in some key postseason games and moments
*Has a tendency to cramp up in the NBA Finals
*Often emasculates and ignores his coaches
*Says stupid things and then contradicts himself
*Blames others for his failures
*Fancies himself a player/coach/GM

This couldn't be more slanted and ridiculous if you tried.

[Orangejello727]

Ill do my best here...

Magic Johnson - A very close 3
Lebron James - A pretty close 3
Larry Bird - Probably a 3

[rats60]

If we're talking overall career value, it's Lebron, and frankly it's not close. You guys do realize that Lebron's already played more career minutes than both of them, right? And his career ain't even close to being done.

It is Magic and it's not even close. 5 championships and 9 finals in 12 seasons for a team that never would have made 1 finals without him.

Magic
Bird
LeBron

That says a lot that LeBron has played more minutes and accomplished less than either Magic or Bird. LeBron has a chance to pass them, but it is going to take a lot the surpass Magic.

[6celtics33]

More time on Lebron like he's in his 5th year makes me laugh. He's already played more than both of those guys. He has already been to more finals than bird. He just happens to have a record of 13-24 in those finals. So while we praise him for getting out of the weak east every year don't forget that if he had these teams in the west he likely doesn't make the finals but 1 or 2 times. Because the west owns him. I.e. Good teams he can't overwhelm own him.

The quick reaction is to point to 07 and say but but but he led them there by himself. I'll give you that. But don't forget he won one against the Spurs on bs luck too when pop took Duncan out, bosh gets the rebound and finds allen for a 3 of which came after Lebron clanked 2 3s himself.

So those cancel each other.

[rats60]

This couldn't be more slanted and ridiculous if you tried.

He is a little harsh on LeBron, but it is 100% true.

[asujbl]

He is a little harsh on LeBron, but it is 100% true.

Sure if your truth omits a million things.

Why does only one player have stats listed? Why doesn't it mention LeBron in some of the Finals, one of which he led every player in PPG, APG, and RPG for both teams combined, which might have been the best Finals performance ever over a series? But Magic gets a specific game listed? Why doesn't it mention Magic Johnson orchestrated Paul Westhead being fired? Why does it mention 1 specific shot Magic hit but makes no mention of any game winners that Bird or LeBron hit?

It's not fair to LeBron or Bird... and mentions nothing negative that Magic ever did.

I love all 3 players... but that is the most ridiculous post ever written if you're really trying to be honest and discuss all 3 players accomplishments and faults.

[markinca]

It is Magic and it's not even close. 5 championships and 9 finals in 12 seasons for a team that never would have made 1 finals without him.

Magic
Bird
LeBron

That says a lot that LeBron has played more minutes and accomplished less than either Magic or Bird. LeBron has a chance to pass them, but it is going to take a lot the surpass Magic.

It says that Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Byron Scott, etc etc etc etc on his side.

Meanwhile, Lebron has had Wade/Bosh (who he did win championships with) and otherwise a pupu platter of mostly undesirable role players.

[dasiegel]

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say Bird/Magic/Lebron. Totally agree that Lebron deserves a full career before we really rank these guys. I think objectively the order is Magic/Bird/Lebron at this point in time based on titles, awards, clutch shots, etc but I'll give my case for Bird.

I think if you take all these guys in their best window of 3-5 years I think Bird was the best. From 81-86 he had 3 titles and 3 MVPs, 2 Finals MVPs, and all star MVP, etc etc. His ability to make shots in clutch situations is second to none all time IMO. Jordan, Reggie and a few others are right there but Bird shooting felt similar to when you see Steph release the ball today. It almost feels like it's weird when it misses. At 6'9" 6'10" he could shoot over anyone in the post or on the perimeter. His passing game was in the same league as Magic and Lebron as a SF/PF.

I think he gets forgotten about a little in these talks. Lebron is current and Magic is in the news much more. As good as those mid 80s Celtics teams were, the 80s Lakers teams were so stacked with debatably 2 of the top 5 or at least 10 players ever plus Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Thompson, etc, they overshadow the 80s Celtics teams that in their title years were better than the Lakers but not overall during the decade.

The other thing was from his rookie year to 87, he was as good a player the league has ever seen but he tells that 87 was the year his back began breaking down (see interview with Bill Simmons). He played until 92 but while he was great, even had a 50 40 90 year in 88' he was not the same and the team was aging out.

I think if Bird is not at the top here it is fair but mostly related to having a shorter window of greatness due to injuries. Then I would have Magic at the top. Lebron is friggin amazing but has the unfortunate advantage of playing the bulk of his career in a generally weak Eastern Conference without a true rival. He did rival the Celtics team but that was a short 3 year window or so. He basically walked to the Finals last year and with the Heat superteams. I am of course open to him passing these guys but his career will have to play out to know where he stands.

[rats60]

Why doesn't it mention Magic Johnson orchestrated Paul Westhead being fired?

I love all 3 players... but that is the most ridiculous post ever written if you're really trying to be honest and discuss all 3 players accomplishments and faults.

Probably because Magic had nothing to do with Westhead being fired. His post isn't anymore ridiculous than yours. Why don't you be honest and at least pick something negative about Magic that is true?

[6celtics33]

All true dasiegel and also, even though they rolled together Magic shines brighter at the end. Bird won 3 MVPs before Magic ever won one. Then Bird fell off due to injuries and Magic still held the spotlight and that's how people usually remember it. Bird is my #1 choice although I wouldn't really argue against Magic. But I think Lebron is in 3rd just from a will/personality standpoint. I think every time something goes wrong everyone but him gets the blame yet all I hear is how he makes everyone better. I'm still waiting for Lebron to lift those around him to the highest levels. I know last seasons finals produced some gaudy #s but I watched the games and it was some of the ugliest basketball I've seen. Dribbling the shot clock for 18-20 seconds before you shoot or fire it 100mph at someone in the head will get you some points and assists but he's not going to win like that.

[atoaz12]

This couldn't be more slanted and ridiculous if you tried.

Sure if your truth omits a million things.

Why does only one player have stats listed? Why doesn't it mention LeBron in some of the Finals, one of which he led every player in PPG, APG, and RPG for both teams combined, which might have been the best Finals performance ever over a series? But Magic gets a specific game listed? Why doesn't it mention Magic Johnson orchestrated Paul Westhead being fired? Why does it mention 1 specific shot Magic hit but makes no mention of any game winners that Bird or LeBron hit?

It's not fair to LeBron or Bird... and mentions nothing negative that Magic ever did.

I love all 3 players... but that is the most ridiculous post ever written if you're really trying to be honest and discuss all 3 players accomplishments and faults.

On the nose

[tke1600]

Barring injury, Lebron will be a clear #2 when it's all said and done. None of this arguing really matters when 2 players are done and played in a different era, compared to a current player in the last 1/3 of his career who is still putting up huge numbers.

[pingbling23]

This couldn't be more slanted and ridiculous if you tried.

i thought about saying something about his post but its just to obvious. these threads are funny, good to see lakers and celtics fans getting together. lebron is the better player. you could make a case for horry having a better career then someone like vince carter, but carter is the better player. did i really just read a post that pretty much said those lakers teams were nothing with out magic?

[asujbl]

Probably because Magic had nothing to do with Westhead being fired. His post isn't anymore ridiculous than yours. Why don't you be honest and at least pick something negative about Magic that is true?

So we know LeBron is a coach killer, because it was included in that ridiculous list, but you are sure Magic had nothing to do with Westhead.

Got it.

[asujbl]

i thought about saying something about his post but its just to obvious. these threads are funny, good to see lakers and celtics fans getting together. lebron is the better player. you could make a case for horry having a better career then someone like vince carter, but carter is the better player. did i really just read a post that pretty much said those lakers teams were nothing with out magic?

I just can't believe that was typed out and someone said "This seems to address both sides of the issue for all 3 guys"

There is not one single stat - not one - listed for Bird or LeBron.

Magic? Stats are referenced twice.

Magic was in the Finals 9 out of 12 times. That was specifically mentioned. LeBron has made it how many years in a row? Not mentioned. Bird? Not mentioned.

Magic? He gets a specific shot mentioned. Any of LeBron's game winners discussed? Bird? Nope.

Any mention of Bird's bad back? Or LeBron carrying D League players to the 07 Finals? Nope... But if Magic hadn't hurt his hamstring he'd have 6 rings apparently. Would LeBron have another ring if Love and Kyrie don't get hurt? If we're just going to play the hypothetical game.

How about the fact that LeBron has more MVP's then Bird or Magic? Does that mean he's better? Of course not... but if we're just going to randomly pick and choose things we like.

Everything else is pure speculation. LeBron is selfish. LeBron is a coach killer. Magic sacrificed him game for everyone else.

It really is one of the worst posts I've read on this board when someone was trying to add to an actual discussion.

[AlabamaSlamma]

Does anyone have any Steph Curry inserts for sale?

I'll hang up and listen.

[smalltown]

When ever i think about these questions i always frame it in the if i'm starting a franchise from scratch who would i pick first. And for me it's Magic by a mile. He's more versatile than either of the others. He also was one of the best "leaders" of all time.

I'd pick 'Bron second but it's very close. He can do things athletically that Bird couldn't but Bird keeps it very close because of one of the reasons i rank Magic high. Leadership.

[asujbl]

When ever i think about these questions i always frame it in the if i'm starting a franchise from scratch who would i pick first. And for me it's Magic by a mile. He's more versatile than either of the others. He also was one of the best "leaders" of all time.

I'd pick 'Bron second but it's very close. He can do things athletically that Bird couldn't but Bird keeps it very close because of one of the reasons i rank Magic high. Leadership.

I sort of look at the questions the same way - I ranked them the same - Magic/LeBron/Bird if you were saying all are the same age and I could start my team with whichever I wanted.

[GC1980]

It is Magic and it's not even close. 5 championships and 9 finals in 12 seasons for a team that never would have made 1 finals without him.

Magic
Bird
LeBron

That says a lot that LeBron has played more minutes and accomplished less than either Magic or Bird. LeBron has a chance to pass them, but it is going to take a lot the surpass Magic.

Gotta agree with you here 100%. Longevity and counting stats will favor Lebron when all is said and done but we are stating opinions now and as of now, he has played more minutes and accomplished less than both Magic and Bird.

There is zero debate in my mind between Lebron and Magic. If you look at the resume, the skill, the impact, the prime, the intangible...all favor Magic and some very heavily.

Lebron and Bird is interesting but only when you look at the totals. Bird prime seasons were on par with pretty much anyone's. We are talking about a guy that was nearly 25-30/10/7 on 50% shooting in his peak and 24/10/6 for his career. He was a very underrated defender and likewise accomplished more in his given time. Skill wise he is without a doubt ahead. Impact on the game and legacy? Hard to top Larry Legend.

Lebron comes in third here for me and there is no disrespect in that. We are comparing him to two of the most influential figures to ever step on a court and in my opinion the number 2 and number 5-6 players of all time. He has a lot more of his legacy to write. Maybe he trumps them. Maybe he wins 5 in a row and takes home 5 Finals MVPs and 3 more MVPs and become GOAT. Maybe he loses 4 more Finals and ends up 2-8 lifetime...

[Jasondr91]

i thought about saying something about his post but its just to obvious. these threads are funny, good to see lakers and celtics fans getting together. lebron is the better player. you could make a case for horry having a better career then someone like vince carter, but carter is the better player. did i really just read a post that pretty much said those lakers teams were nothing with out magic?

Why yes you did read how the Lakers were nothing without Magic.

To hell with Cooper, Mychal Thompson, Byron Scott, Kurt Rambis!

Not to mention those two top 50 all time scrubs in Kareem and Worthy! :doh:

[Jasondr91]

Does anyone have any Steph Curry inserts for sale?

I'll hang up and listen.

Now this is golden!

Ha!

:D

[GC1980]

i thought about saying something about his post but its just to obvious. these threads are funny, good to see lakers and celtics fans getting together. lebron is the better player. you could make a case for horry having a better career then someone like vince carter, but carter is the better player. did i really just read a post that pretty much said those lakers teams were nothing with out magic?

You say lebron is the better player but why? I never see any reasoning for Lebron being better.

Magic was a better passer, ran an offense better, lead a team better, was a better rebounder. Lebron scores at a higher volume but Magic was certainly able to score when he chose. He usually took on average 6-8 shots per game less than LBJ has. LBJ is a better defender for sure.

Bird was a better shooter, better scorer overall, better rebounder better passer, better leader. His skill as a player were better across the board. Lebron was a marginally better defender due to his athleticism.

[6celtics33]

Gotta agree with you here 100%. Longevity and counting stats will favor Lebron when all is said and done but we are stating opinions now and as of now, he has played more minutes and accomplished less than both Magic and Bird.

There is zero debate in my mind between Lebron and Magic. If you look at the resume, the skill, the impact, the prime, the intangible...all favor Magic and some very heavily.

Lebron and Bird is interesting but only when you look at the totals. Bird prime seasons were on par with pretty much anyone's. We are talking about a guy that was nearly 25-30/10/7 on 50% shooting in his peak and 24/10/6 for his career. He was a very underrated defender and likewise accomplished more in his given time. Skill wise he is without a doubt ahead. Impact on the game and legacy? Hard to top Larry Legend.

Lebron comes in third here for me and there is no disrespect in that. We are comparing him to two of the most influential figures to ever step on a court and in my opinion the number 2 and number 5-6 players of all time. He has a lot more of his legacy to write. Maybe he trumps them. Maybe he wins 5 in a row and takes home 5 Finals MVPs and 3 more MVPs and become GOAT. Maybe he loses 4 more Finals and ends up 2-8 lifetime...

Exactly. Whenever the "he's not done yet" line gets dropped its always assumed great things are ahead like even though he's been to 6 finals and has a 13-24 record.... NOWWW he's figured it out and it's up the all time ladder he goes.

I'd just like to point out, there was a time not too long ago where people would swear to you that Kobe was top 5 and maybe #2 ever, now they have him 12th. This top 100 list from Kevin love and Marc gasol being ranked to curry/Durant at the top 25 to Lebron at 3 was heavily weighted toward the current players. Which is fine. But.... There is usually a tailing off point for everyone and that hasn't been factored in here either. Lebron's best years are behind him. It's not getting better from here.

[asujbl]

You say lebron is the better player but why? I never see any reasoning for Lebron being better.

Magic was a better passer, ran an offense better, lead a team better, was a better rebounder. Lebron scores at a higher volume but Magic was certainly able to score when he chose. He usually took on average 6-8 shots per game less than LBJ has. LBJ is a better defender for sure.

Bird was a better shooter, better scorer overall, better rebounder better passer, better leader. His skill as a player were better across the board. Lebron was a marginally better defender due to his athleticism.

So much of this is subjective... everyone just keeps saying things like they are fact

What makes Bird a better passer? What makes him a better overall scorer (I contend LeBron can beat you scoring in more ways)? What makes Magic a better rebounder? Why do we assume, when you can't really compare eras, that Magic and Bird were both so much better leaders? Are they the same guys if they had to play over the last decade with all the $$, social media, and diva NBA players running the league?

What happens if Magic doesn't happen to end up with one of the 5 smartest basketball guys ever in Pat Riley? Is it possible he becomes a coach killer if he was playing for Mike Brown and David Blatt?

Everything is always "well if this guy wanted to" - but that never applies to LeBron.

Magic could score like LeBron if he wanted... but LeBron couldn't possibly do some of the things Magic did had he been asked? What if LeBron had come into the league in 2003 with a Kareem and Worthy and all they asked him to do was pass and rebound? Magic didn't have to score 25 a game... hence why he took like 13 shots a game... but you are saying he easily can score 25. This is probably true. I also guarantee LeBron could average 12-15 assists a game if that's what he was needed for.

Why does LeBron get penalized for his athleticism? People use that all the time "Well he's a good scorer because he's just bigger and faster" as if that's some negative and that just because Bird can shoot it better that makes him a better basketball player.

[6celtics33]

Combine style if everyone was at the combine in the same draft and you had a checklist of basketball skills then Lebron would rate at the very top. It would be him and Wilt and Jordan and Hakeem and Kareem probably. However it's a team game where the best player historically had a disproportionate outcome on the contest vs other sports and Lebron gets all the credit for carrying his team out of a weak east but then when they lose to the real teams it's everyone else's fault. I just don't see the same win at all costs will and mentality I see from the other 2, and it was the norm then. Isiah and Jordan had it too.

[tke1600]

Exactly. Whenever the "he's not done yet" line gets dropped its always assumed great things are ahead like even though he's been to 6 finals and has a 13-24 record.... NOWWW he's figured it out and it's up the all time ladder he goes.

I'd just like to point out, there was a time not too long ago where people would swear to you that Kobe was top 5 and maybe #2 ever, now they have him 12th. This top 100 list from Kevin love and Marc gasol being ranked to curry/Durant at the top 25 to Lebron at 3 was heavily weighted toward the current players. Which is fine. But.... There is usually a tailing off point for everyone and that hasn't been factored in here either. Lebron's best years are behind him. It's not getting better from here.

Lebron probably had his best finals performance yet just 8 months ago. He was also playing with Love/Kyrie out. But yea he is getting worse and worse.

[6celtics33]

So much of this is subjective... everyone just keeps saying things like they are fact

What makes Bird a better passer? What makes him a better overall scorer (I contend LeBron can beat you scoring in more ways)? What makes Magic a better rebounder? Why do we assume, when you can't really compare eras, that Magic and Bird were both so much better leaders? Are they the same guys if they had to play over the last decade with all the $$, social media, and diva NBA players running the league?

What happens if Magic doesn't happen to end up with one of the 5 smartest basketball guys ever in Pat Riley? Is it possible he becomes a coach killer if he was playing for Mike Brown and David Blatt?

Everything is always "well if this guy wanted to" - but that never applies to LeBron.

Magic could score like LeBron if he wanted... but LeBron couldn't possibly do some of the things Magic did had he been asked? What if LeBron had come into the league in 2003 with a Kareem and Worthy and all they asked him to do was pass and rebound? Magic didn't have to score 25 a game... hence why he took like 13 shots a game... but you are saying he easily can score 25. This is probably true. I also guarantee LeBron could average 12-15 assists a game if that's what he was needed for.

Why does LeBron get penalized for his athleticism? People use that all the time "Well he's a good scorer because he's just bigger and faster" as if that's some negative and that just because Bird can shoot it better that makes him a better basketball player.

I think people appreciate it more because it's a skill that you've developed vs being born that way just like people tend to like wing players vs 7 footers in the collecting world.

Also it helps that when the game slows down late, Bird shoots 90% from the line and loves the pressure and Lebron shoots 75% and chews his nails scared to death. Now you can yell at me but that's a fact I've watched over and over.

[6celtics33]

Lebron probably had his best finals performance yet just 8 months ago. He was also playing with Love/Kyrie out. But yea he is getting worse and worse.

Yeah man, numbers tell the whole story, you got it figured out

[asujbl]

I think people appreciate it more because it's a skill that you've developed vs being born that way just like people tend to like wing players vs 7 footers in the collecting world.

Also it helps that when the game slows down late, Bird shoots 90% from the line and loves the pressure and Lebron shoots 75% and chews his nails scared to death. Now you can yell at me but that's a fact I've watched over and over.

This is so lame.

Magic being the best 6'9' PG ever had nothing to do with the way he was "born" and it was all hard work. Bird was like 6'0' and 175 pounds last I remember seeing him play.

LeBron is the only one that gets penalized for being an athletic freak. It's dumb.

Bird is a better FT shooter. That is a fact. That you can substantiate because it's not based on anyone or anything else. He stands there and shoots the ball better from the line. If you want to chalk that one up in the Bird column then go ahead.

[6celtics33]

I started my statement with "I think" meaning it's an opinion and I could be wrong. Sorry you think it's lame.

[6celtics33]

This is so lame.

Magic being the best 6'9' PG ever had nothing to do with the way he was "born" and it was all hard work. Bird was like 6'0' and 175 pounds last I remember seeing him play.

LeBron is the only one that gets penalized for being an athletic freak. It's dumb.

Bird is a better FT shooter. That is a fact. That you can substantiate because it's not based on anyone or anything else. He stands there and shoots the ball better from the line. If you want to chalk that one up in the Bird column then go ahead.

Bird was 6'0 and 175 pounds? Whaaaaatttt?

[kairi-2008]

It really comes down to how you view the question.
All three changed the game.
Larry was the toughest, by a long shot. He played in the roughest era and was subject to the more physical abuse than most players in that era. Regardless he made his team win and made those better around him. His desire to win was the greatest of the three.
Lebron is physically the best player of the three but lacks something. I can't put my finger on it, but it's not physical.
Magic is the better of the three, if you want a winning team and seats filled. Not as fast or as strong, doesn't come across as having that fire. But he achieved greatest and made it look fun .
So for me, this is a very complex question and the answer isn't easily answered. But, I can pick Magic as the best, but, the three are so close. I can't pick two or three.

[kairi-2008]

This is so lame.

Magic being the best 6'9' PG ever had nothing to do with the way he was "born" and it was all hard work. Bird was like 6'0' and 175 pounds last I remember seeing him play.

LeBron is the only one that gets penalized for being an athletic freak. It's dumb.

Bird is a better FT shooter. That is a fact. That you can substantiate because it's not based on anyone or anything else. He stands there and shoots the ball better from the line. If you want to chalk that one up in the Bird column then go ahead.

This has to be a typo, twice ????

[Nyfancam01]

1. Lebron James
2. Magic Johnson
3. bird

[asujbl]

This has to be a typo, twice ????

What is a typo?

[pingbling23]

You say lebron is the better player but why? I never see any reasoning for Lebron being better.

Magic was a better passer, ran an offense better, lead a team better, was a better rebounder. Lebron scores at a higher volume but Magic was certainly able to score when he chose. He usually took on average 6-8 shots per game less than LBJ has. LBJ is a better defender for sure.

Bird was a better shooter, better scorer overall, better rebounder better passer, better leader. His skill as a player were better across the board. Lebron was a marginally better defender due to his athleticism.

I've done it so many times over the years I honestly don't want to waste the time researching and posting a bunch of stats. You posted a bunch of opinions, I could simply do the reverse. Besides team success (no one can say those lakers or celtics teams were weak) there's not much separating these players IMO. I think lebron is the better defender out of the 3, is a better scorer then magic and is on par with bird (notice scorer instead of pure shooter), as good of a leader as them, is a better rebounder then both, and on par with magic in passing and better then bird. I have to think of what all lebron has done with less then players like bird and magic. Even with sharing the spotlight with multiple stars, he still leads the team in pts, reb, and ast. Again, why do people want to discredit athletes for being to athletic?

[asujbl]

I've done it so many times over the years I honestly don't want to waste the time researching and posting a bunch of stats. You posted a bunch of opinions, I could simply do the reverse. Besides team success (no one can say those lakers or celtics teams were weak) there's not much separating these players IMO. I think lebron is the better defender out of the 3, is a better scorer then magic and is on par with bird (notice scorer instead of pure shooter), as good of a leader as them, is a better rebounder then both, and on par with magic in passing and better then bird. I have to think of what all lebron has done with less then players like bird and magic. Even with sharing the spotlight with multiple stars, he still leads the team in pts, reb, and ast. Again, why do people want to discredit athletes for being to athletic?

Because it's easier. We can all be Larry Bird if we just work hard.

[6celtics33]

Because it's easier. We can all be Larry Bird if we just work hard.

You must not have seen Bird play since 8th grade since the last time he was 6'0 and 175 pounds. He became pretty good, you should check out the youtubes.

Ping bling... How do you rationalize saying Lebron did more with less then say Lebron led the team in stats despite playing with stars?

Also, how is Lebron a better rebounder than Bird? If were only going by numbers here which seems to be the case, I'm pretty sure 10 for a career beats 7 every time, no?

[asujbl]

You must not have seen Bird play since 8th grade since the last time he was 6'0 and 175 pounds. He became pretty good, you should check out the youtubes.

Ping bling... How do you rationalize saying Lebron did more with less then say Lebron led the team in stats despite playing with stars?

Also, how is Lebron a better rebounder than Bird? If were only going by numbers here which seems to be the case, I'm pretty sure 10 for a career beats 7 every time, no?

Sarcasm. It was sarcasm.

Of course Larry Bird wasn't 6'0' and a 175 pounds - but people sure as hell act like it - when in reality he was a 6'9' 225 pound guy that was fantastic athletically.

That's the point. Only LeBron gets penalized for being an athlete. You all act like Bird just worked hard and that's how be became 6'9'

[6celtics33]

I just offered an opinion on the athletic thing. I couldn't care less how athletic Lebron is. My issue with Lebron is in his head. He comes up small again and again in big moments and it always gets blamed on someone else.

Let me ask you guys this.... When the Heat played Dallas they were up 2-1 with arguably the best 2 players in the series. What happened? How did they lose 3 in a row? How did Lebron get held to 17ppg by Jason Kidd who was so much older, smaller, and less athletic? All I hear about is how much bigger stronger faster Lebron is yet he allowed himself on the biggest stage to get held down by Jason Kidd and Deshawn Stevenson??? Lol

Let's see, let's run through them... His team wasn't less talented, he had Wade in his dead prime and Bosh, and the Mavs had a GREAT Dirk and some good role players, they were the 3 seed. It wasn't that he had never been to the finals before, he had and got swept. It wasn't that anyone was injured, they were all healthy. What else what else?? Hmmm. I got nothing?

Somebody tell me WHAT HAPPENED!! WHOSE FAULT WAS IT!!!! I'm out of excuses, I know you all have some.

[6celtics33]

Sarcasm. It was sarcasm.

Of course Larry Bird wasn't 6'0' and a 175 pounds - but people sure as hell act like it - when in reality he was a 6'9' 225 pound guy that was fantastic athletically.

That's the point. Only LeBron gets penalized for being an athlete. You all act like Bird just worked hard and that's how be became 6'9'


No, not me. I didn't act like that. i was talking about his shooting the same way people love Steph Curry's shooting. It's something you learn to do and do well. It's like watching a good hitter in baseball. It's a skill.

[kairi-2008]

What is a typo?

Larry Bird was 6 foot and 175 pounds ?

[6celtics33]

I personally prefer Bird for his playoff heroics. I like the way the celtics passed the ball and moved. Granted Lebron is much better in today's game in terms of dribble dribble pick and roll dribble some more shoot a 3. I just don't prefer that style. Bird in today's game would have to be in some sort of motion offense. Bird wouldn't be dribbling in the pick and roll. But Bird would thrive in something like what the Spurs run, or the triangle.

I actually agree with Espn on their top 10, just not in that order. I don't think Lebron is 3rd. I would have him 8 or 9th all time. If that's saying I'm a hater or whatever because I just think 8 people ever are better then so be it. It's my preference.

I also don't think after 13 years that it's rational to say oh but he's not done yet like a guy who has a 2-4 finals series record and 13-24 overall w-l finals record is suddenly going to reel off a dominant stretch. The data is there, we know who he is.

Physical tools... conversation for best ever absolutely
mental/physical combo... not top 5 for me, I haven't seen it

[kairi-2008]

Sarcasm. It was sarcasm.

Of course Larry Bird wasn't 6'0' and a 175 pounds - but people sure as hell act like it - when in reality he was a 6'9' 225 pound guy that was fantastic athletically.

That's the point. Only LeBron gets penalized for being an athlete. You all act like Bird just worked hard and that's how be became 6'9'


Sarcasm doesn't work in forums.
It takes away from your argument in the end.

[Hegotgame15]

So essentially 1 season, plus maybe a round of playoffs, is enough to answer this question?

Hilarious.

Best Games....

How many games of these players have you actually seen...FULL games...

MJ ALL OF THEM.
LeBron 500+
Kobe 500+
Bird 300 still working on his list.
Magic 400 still want to have 500.


You can get the answer from 100 of each of their best games no problem.

Or just use stats like you always do...No point in watching games at all!

[Hegotgame15]

Sarcasm. It was sarcasm.

Of course Larry Bird wasn't 6'0' and a 175 pounds - but people sure as hell act like it - when in reality he was a 6'9' 225 pound guy that was fantastic athletically.

That's the point. Only LeBron gets penalized for being an athlete. You all act like Bird just worked hard and that's how be became 6'9'

That's because he isn't progressing like he should....

Where's the footwork?

Where's the jumpshot?

Where's the ability to use his speed in spurts rather then flat-out all the time?

Where's the ability to create space?

Where's the post moves that should be dialled in by now?

Seriously it makes no sense, he played with Wade, a guy that is so crafty in is ability to separate himself from defence that he always has the time to take a lazy slow shot without getting blocked! That is something LeBron needs to learn!

LeBron's progression isn't good at all, he could and should be so much more complete at this stage it's not funny...


Could you imagine a LeBron James with footwork, just footwork that progressed like it should have...

[vinsanity15]

Barring injury, Lebron will be a clear #2 when it's all said and done. None of this arguing really matters when 2 players are done and played in a different era, compared to a current player in the last 1/3 of his career who is still putting up huge numbers.

Exactly he still averaging 25 7 and 7 and people wanna say he slowing down lol. He is not scoring as much because he choses not to he rather get others involved. See in a game like last night vs the Lakers Lebron could of put up a easy 45-50 spot but does not chose to score like that. Unlike curry who just tries to score all the time. Lebron just picks his spots not that it bad what curry does obviously just saying if lebron was a little more offensive minded he would put up 30 a game easily to. He just does not chose to and it annoying to me sometimes as a fan of his lol. I wanna see him go off like he use to first time around in cleveland. But his mind set has changed nothing really matters to him but the ring so i guess he is right.

[vinsanity15]

Also everyone wants to crap on lebron but everyone does realize he is a ultimate teammate and it is a dream come true for anyone to play with him. I mean think about it the guy is the most physically gifted athlete in NBA history and probably sports history. With all this talent and yet instead of scoring 30 plus a night and going off for 50 on other nights which he is fully capable of whenever he wants he choses to get others involved. Now some might say it is because he does not have that killer instinct which is true sometimes, and it pisses me off when i watch him cause i just wanna see him take over the game scoring. But that is just not who he is and to this point it has worked for him. I just wish that he took it all a little more into his hands and left no doubt if that makes sense. Guess we will find out this year and years to come. Because if there gonna win Lebron has to go back to old lebron and start to go off for 40 more. Then no one will question him and they will win.

Does anyone else feel this way or is it just me lol?

[asujbl]

Best Games....

How many games of these players have you actually seen...FULL games...

MJ ALL OF THEM.
LeBron 500+
Kobe 500+
Bird 300 still working on his list.
Magic 400 still want to have 500.


You can get the answer from 100 of each of their best games no problem.

Or just use stats like you always do...No point in watching games at all!

Plenty

I'm not young

[vinsanity15]

That's because he isn't progressing like he should....

Where's the footwork?

Where's the jumpshot?

Where's the ability to use his speed in spurts rather then flat-out all the time?

Where's the ability to create space?

Where's the post moves that should be dialled in by now?

Seriously it makes no sense, he played with Wade, a guy that is so crafty in is ability to separate himself from defence that he always has the time to take a lazy slow shot without getting blocked! That is something LeBron needs to learn!

LeBron's progression isn't good at all, he could and should be so much more complete at this stage it's not funny...


Could you imagine a LeBron James with footwork, just footwork that progressed like it should have...


He has everything on your list except his J right now once he gets that back like he did with the heat everything will follow. His footwork is there man it great it just hard to pay it off when your not hitting your Js. It will come it has been looking a little better for him lately his range is coming back a little looked good last night vs the lakers but it only one game. That his only problem right now everyone is a fool who thinks he's slowing down not even close. His only problem is that his J has been off that it that not a product of slowing down. That is a product of over thinking, it is a mental thing with his J nothing physical at all. Once that comes back he all good.

[pingbling23]

Best Games....

How many games of these players have you actually seen...FULL games...

MJ ALL OF THEM.
LeBron 500+
Kobe 500+
Bird 300 still working on his list.
Magic 400 still want to have 500.


You can get the answer from 100 of each of their best games no problem.

Or just use stats like you always do...No point in watching games at all!

While I respect the time you take to watch these games, it doesn't change the fact that a biased viewer will have biased opinions. I mean look at every game thread on here, everyone is seeing a different game being played out.

[tristan20]

That's because he isn't progressing like he should....

Where's the footwork?

Where's the jumpshot?

Where's the ability to use his speed in spurts rather then flat-out all the time?

Where's the ability to create space?

Where's the post moves that should be dialled in by now?

Seriously it makes no sense, he played with Wade, a guy that is so crafty in is ability to separate himself from defence that he always has the time to take a lazy slow shot without getting blocked! That is something LeBron needs to learn!

LeBron's progression isn't good at all, he could and should be so much more complete at this stage it's not funny...


Could you imagine a LeBron James with footwork, just footwork that progressed like it should have...

Blah blah blah, you forgot he left cleveland, he doesnt wear his headband anymore, and his mom is with Delonte West.

See how ridiculous that is? Finding fault for no reason whatsoever. At least was never associated with Thugs, Drugs, Rape, Gambling etc.

So what if he doesn't have a jump shot? You do know he is the youngest to score 10k, 20k, 25k right? Who needs a jump shot when obviously what he is doing is working.

We are talking about a guy that is top 20 in Scoring and Assists ALL TIME, when was the last time we witnessed that? He just turned 31 and already going to surpass the great Tim Duncan in scoring.

[asujbl]

Blah blah blah, you forgot he left cleveland, he doesnt wear his headband anymore, and his mom is with Delonte West.

See how ridiculous that is? Finding fault for no reason whatsoever. At least was never associated with Thugs, Drugs, Rape, Gambling etc.

So what if he doesn't have a jump shot? You do know he is the youngest to score 10k, 20k, 25k right? Who needs a jump shot when obviously what he is doing is working.

We are talking about a guy that is top 20 in Scoring and Assists ALL TIME, when was the last time we witnessed that? He just turned 31 and already going to surpass the great Tim Duncan in scoring.

Because he's an athlete. Not a basketball player.

[pingbling23]

Because he's an athlete. Not a basketball player.
They are waiting till he has more minutes then anyone in history and will say see I told you so, once his athleticism declined so did he. No sh*t lol he's 40 and has the miles of a 45 year old. Let's be honest, at this age and mileage, his athleticism should be more diminished and it has diminished somewhat in regular season play but he still manages to be a top 5 scorer without, seemingly, trying to score.

[Hegotgame15]

While I respect the time you take to watch these games, it doesn't change the fact that a biased viewer will have biased opinions. I mean look at every game thread on here, everyone is seeing a different game being played out.

You're right, I do see LeBron with a bias view and believe me I've tried to stop it, it's hard to do, once you look at a player a certain way it's hard to see what's really in front of you....But trust me I do see it.

I'm taking LeBron over Magic, Kobe, and Bird to start a team, in fact i'm on the fence if i'd take LeBron over MJ to start a team if my goal is to get there, winning it all only happens if you get there, LeBron gets there more then anyone....


I believe LeBron could be so much more than he is....

I think he relies on his size and speed too much and hasn't developed the skills he could have, he's not getting any younger and I think it will catch up to him quicker than it should...


The footwork is something he should address, it's not that hard to learn and once you have it it's there....


Everything comes from footwork and it's the one thing he could change at anytime during his career if he wanted to, I mean he dropped the weight last year to try and help get an edge, it doesn't make sense to work on his game itself?


He would be a total different player if he had just 1/2 the footwork ability of an MJ-Kobe, surely people must see that?

[Nyfancam01]

some of the stupid trash some of you say about lebron sickens me.
Shut up already.

we get it.... you don't like him.... Just sit back and watch him break more and more records. KEEP HATING!

the KING will reign supreme :D

[pip33tomj23]

You're right, I do see LeBron with a bias view and believe me I've tried to stop it, it's hard to do, once you look at a player a certain way it's hard to see what's really in front of you....But trust me I do see it.

I'm taking LeBron over Magic, Kobe, and Bird to start a team, in fact i'm on the fence if i'd take LeBron over MJ to start a team if my goal is to get there, winning it all only happens if you get there, LeBron gets there more then anyone....


I believe LeBron could be so much more than he is....

I think he relies on his size and speed too much and hasn't developed the skills he could have, he's not getting any younger and I think it will catch up to him quicker than it should...


The footwork is something he should address, it's not that hard to learn and once you have it it's there....


Everything comes from footwork and it's the one thing he could change at anytime during his career if he wanted to, I mean he dropped the weight last year to try and help get an edge, it doesn't make sense to work on his game itself?


He would be a total different player if he had just 1/2 the footwork ability of an MJ-Kobe, surely people must see that?

This guy gets it. Lebron is a top 5 physical athlete of all time across all sports, but in my opinion, but he never refined his offensive basketball skills. What has he added to his game? He's a suspect foul shooter when it counts, his jumper is lacking...

He backs you down, bulls you over and uses the off arm. Don't get me wrong, that's great... but he could have been so much more if he had the work ethic of a MJ/Kobe. He's just not as sound technically as say a Kobe or MJ was.

All that being said, he's still a top 10 guy of all time on my list.

[GC1980]

This guy gets it. Lebron is a top 5 physical athlete of all time across all sports, but in my opinion, but he never refined his offensive basketball skills. What has he added to his game? He's a suspect foul shooter when it counts, his jumper is lacking...

He backs you down, bulls you over and uses the off arm. Don't get me wrong, that's great... but he could have been so much more if he had the work ethic of a MJ/Kobe. He's just not as sound technically as say a Kobe or MJ was.

All that being said, he's still a top 10 guy of all time on my list.

I agree. this right here is not "being a hater". It's an honest observation a fair amount of fans see.

[dasiegel]

I've done it so many times over the years I honestly don't want to waste the time researching and posting a bunch of stats. You posted a bunch of opinions, I could simply do the reverse. Besides team success (no one can say those lakers or celtics teams were weak) there's not much separating these players IMO. I think lebron is the better defender out of the 3, is a better scorer then magic and is on par with bird (notice scorer instead of pure shooter), as good of a leader as them, is a better rebounder then both, and on par with magic in passing and better then bird. I have to think of what all lebron has done with less then players like bird and magic. Even with sharing the spotlight with multiple stars, he still leads the team in pts, reb, and ast. Again, why do people want to discredit athletes for being to athletic?

Lebron is a better rebounder than Bird?

[6celtics33]

Lebron is a better rebounder than Bird?

7 is more than 10 on Blowout math according to them. On par with Magic as a passer is laughable too. He's a good passer don't get me wrong but Magic is on an island as a passer all by himself. Bird and Lebron are both great passers but not like Magic.

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by pingbling23 View Post
I've done it so many times over the years I honestly don't want to waste the time researching and posting a bunch of stats. You posted a bunch of opinions, I could simply do the reverse. Besides team success (no one can say those lakers or celtics teams were weak) there's not much separating these players IMO. I think lebron is the better defender out of the 3, is a better scorer then magic and is on par with bird (notice scorer instead of pure shooter), as good of a leader as them, is a better rebounder then both, and on par with magic in passing and better then bird. I have to think of what all lebron has done with less then players like bird and magic. Even with sharing the spotlight with multiple stars, he still leads the team in pts, reb, and ast. Again, why do people want to discredit athletes for being to athletic?

Marginally contradictory? No?

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by pingbling23 View Post
I've done it so many times over the years I honestly don't want to waste the time researching and posting a bunch of stats. You posted a bunch of opinions, I could simply do the reverse. Besides team success (no one can say those lakers or celtics teams were weak) there's not much separating these players IMO. I think lebron is the better defender out of the 3, is a better scorer then magic and is on par with bird (notice scorer instead of pure shooter), as good of a leader as them, is a better rebounder then both, and on par with magic in passing and better then bird. I have to think of what all lebron has done with less then players like bird and magic. Even with sharing the spotlight with multiple stars, he still leads the team in pts, reb, and ast. Again, why do people want to discredit athletes for being to athletic?

Marginally contradictory? No?
Not at all. Ok , lebron has had 5 good teams and went to the finals 5 straight times with those teams. Both the celtics and lakers had dynasty caliber teams, whats your argument? Lebron has had less help over the course of his career, are you denying this? So you admit lebron is a better scorer then bird since lebron averages more right? Since we are basing our opinions on stat averages? That's what you're implying.

[vinsanity15]

They are waiting till he has more minutes then anyone in history and will say see I told you so, once his athleticism declined so did he. No sh*t lol he's 40 and has the miles of a 45 year old. Let's be honest, at this age and mileage, his athleticism should be more diminished and it has diminished somewhat in regular season play but he still manages to be a top 5 scorer without, seemingly, trying to score.

Exactly ding ding ding. He does not even try and still averages 25 and is top 5 in scoring every year. Imagine he tried to score he would average 30 just like curry and could easily lead the league every year in scoring. But thats just not him it not his game. And he can do it all with or without a J.

[vinsanity15]

some of the stupid trash some of you say about lebron sickens me.
Shut up already.

we get it.... you don't like him.... Just sit back and watch him break more and more records. KEEP HATING!

the KING will reign supreme :D

BANG BANG we are all witness to the king well said hahahaha.

[pingbling23]

Exactly ding ding ding. He does not even try and still averages 25 and is top 5 in scoring every year. Imagine he tried to score he would average 30 just like curry and could easily lead the league every year in scoring. But thats just not him it not his game. And he can do it all with or without a J.

When he goes into score mode, it's 40 a game, in the finals, against the best team in sports history.....:flex: lol But lebron didn't have his second and third option and they lost. It is what it is. I hope we have a repeat of the finals and the cavs take it. Imagine lebron winning one for cleveland and taking down the nba's juggernaut.

[vinsanity15]

When he goes into score mode, it's 40 a game, in the finals, against the best team in sports history.....:flex: lol But lebron didn't have his second and third option and they lost. It is what it is. I hope we have a repeat of the finals and the cavs take it. Imagine lebron winning one for cleveland and taking down the nba's juggernaut.

I know man I'm rooting for it hard trust me i want him to get it bad. They could do it there not unbeatable can't wait.

[Hegotgame15]

When he goes into score mode, it's 40 a game, in the finals, against the best team in sports history.....:flex: lol But lebron didn't have his second and third option and they lost. It is what it is. I hope we have a repeat of the finals and the cavs take it. Imagine lebron winning one for cleveland and taking down the nba's juggernaut.

A serious question....

What takes LeBron in and out of his scoring mode?

[vinsanity15]

A serious question....

What takes LeBron in and out of his scoring mode?

His own mentality and the killer instinct he lacks some times. That is Lebrons key always be on the attack and then he is unstoppable. No one can stop him he can only stop himself.

[tristan20]

A serious question....

What takes LeBron in and out of his scoring mode?

Whatever it takes to get the W, all depends on how the team is playing. If he wants to be the passing Lebron he can be. If his teammates shots arent falling, then he takes up scoring. He doesn't chase stats like most players, he has the most missed triple doubles I have ever seen of any player.

He is unpredictable which is what sets him apart from other players.
You know what pretty much everyone in the NBA will bring every night, but you cant defend the unknown.

[vinsanity15]

Whatever it takes to get the W, all depends on how the team is playing. If he wants to be the passing Lebron he can be. If his teammates shots arent falling, then he takes up scoring. He doesn't chase stats like most players, he has the most missed triple doubles I have ever seen of any player.

He is unpredictable which is what sets him apart from other players.
You know what pretty much everyone in the NBA will bring every night, but you cant defend the unknown.

I also agree with this i honestly think they guy just does not care about stats no more. Unlike players like curry who really cares about his stats it obvious and also russell westbrook really cares about his stats. Those 2 guys make it so obvious when you watch them lol. But lebron just does not and KD to a certain extent to cause KD could easily average more then curry to but just does not. I have seen lebron and KD pass up on so many shoots this year and just not look to score it crazy sometimes. But that is just who they are especially Lebron.

[vinsanity15]

Also what contributes to that i think is there attitude especially Lebron it is very passive sometimes.

[elee712]

When he goes into score mode, it's 40 a game, in the finals, against the best team in sports history.....:flex: lol But lebron didn't have his second and third option and they lost. It is what it is. I hope we have a repeat of the finals and the cavs take it. Imagine lebron winning one for cleveland and taking down the nba's juggernaut.

If Lebron had single handedly beat the Warriors as the Cav's only option by putting up absurd numbers, it would have undisputedly vaulted him as one of greatest of all time. However for him to put up the great numbers and still lose, it just means he was just trying to carry the team but not good enough to win on his own. Players have put up great numbers on bad teams all the time but if they're on losing teams, their individual accomplishments are pretty much meaningless.

[Hegotgame15]

His own mentality and the killer instinct he lacks some times. That is Lebrons key always be on the attack and then he is unstoppable. No one can stop him he can only stop himself.

Whatever it takes to get the W, all depends on how the team is playing. If he wants to be the passing Lebron he can be. If his teammates shots arent falling, then he takes up scoring. He doesn't chase stats like most players, he has the most missed triple doubles I have ever seen of any player.

He is unpredictable which is what sets him apart from other players.
You know what pretty much everyone in the NBA will bring every night, but you cant defend the unknown.

I would word it differently, but how about you refer to vinsanity15 on this one instead of being hell bent on trying to make something up to suit...

[elee712]

When you're talking about 3 of the best players in NBA History, saying that they think one is better than the other shouldn't get people so hot and bothered. Is there shame in not being as good as Magic, or being ranked right below Lebron and Bird? It seems to some that there is an absolute right or wrong answer to a question that can never be proven or has no answer.

[tristan20]

If Lebron had single handedly beat the Warriors as the Cav's only option by putting up absurd numbers, it would have undisputedly vaulted him as one of greatest of all time. However for him to put up the great numbers and still lose, it just means he was just trying to carry the team but not good enough to win on his own. Players have put up great numbers on bad teams all the time but if they're on losing teams, their individual accomplishments are pretty much meaningless.

What? Seriously who would have done better? Cavs weren't swept!

Pretty sure you were screaming "Sweep"

What Lebron did in last year's final is nothing short of amazing! Everyone counted the Cavs out, but they put up a fight.

Please name another player that would have done similar.

[6celtics33]

You al keep saying he does whatever it takes to win like he's Jordan or Russell.

He has a 13-24 record in the finals. That's a .35 winning percentage.

And then does press conferences and says "it's just basketball" right after a loss like it doesn't even matter.

I feel like you all are in the Lebron Matrix and maybe I've been given the blue pill to unhook my mind.

[elee712]

What? Seriously who would have done better? Cavs weren't swept!

Pretty sure you were screaming "Sweep"

What Lebron did in last year's final is nothing short of amazing! Everyone counted the Cavs out, but they put up a fight.

Please name another player that would have done similar.

What exactly are you trying to measure? Who would've put up better numbers in a losing effort or who would have caused the cavs to lose less?

No one is going to look back a few years from now and talk about Lebron getting 40 points a night in a losing effort just like nobody is going to talk about the warriors winning 73 games this season if they don't win the championship. Nice accomplishments but they are only footnotes and nothing else.

[Hegotgame15]

What? Seriously who would have done better? Cavs weren't swept!

Pretty sure you were screaming "Sweep"

What Lebron did in last year's final is nothing short of amazing! Everyone counted the Cavs out, but they put up a fight.

Please name another player that would have done similar.

ummm...MJ....?

MJ would not have done similar you're right, he would have WON dropping 40-50pts a game on 50% shooting....:p

[Jasondr91]

ummm...MJ....?

MJ would not have done similar you're right, he would have WON dropping 40-50pts a game on 50% shooting....:p


No bigger MJ fan than me....sitting right here in NC, born and raised.

But MJ in his prime isn't winning shyt with the group of guys Lebron had in the Finals last year.....nobody is winning or lucking out more than 2 games. Come on dude........:D

But since you know so much....why aren't you the King of breaking wax due to being able to predict shyt so well?

[Hegotgame15]

No bigger MJ fan than me....sitting right here in NC, born and raised.

But MJ in his prime isn't winning shyt with the group of guys Lebron had in the Finals last year.....nobody is winning or lucking out more than 2 games. Come on dude........:D

But since you know so much....why aren't you the King of breaking wax due to being able to predict shyt so well?

You probably don't have to take my post too seriously...:)!

But I mean...Is it sooooooooooo crazy with what's being said in this thread?

Jordan couldn't drop 40-50 on 50% shooting in the finals?

It's hypothetical so it's not really something we need to get into all that much, but if you want to do it just by the numbers, have a look and see if MJ's finals average could have got him the win in that situation...It's pretty close!

Oh and before you or anyone else gets it twisted, I have said the Current Warriors would give the 96 Bulls a lot more trouble then most people think they would and could run with them at the very least, along with a few other great teams...

I'm predicting you worry about this post too much....:p

[Jasondr91]

You probably don't have to take my post too seriously...:)!

But I mean...Is it sooooooooooo crazy with what's being said in this thread?

Jordan couldn't drop 40-50 on 50% shooting in the finals?

It's hypothetical so it's not really something we need to get into all that much, but if you want to do it just by the numbers, have a look and see if MJ's finals average could have got him the win in that situation...It's pretty close!

Oh and before you or anyone else gets it twisted, I have said the Current Warriors would give the 96 Bulls a lot more trouble then most people think they would and could run with them at the very least, along with a few other great teams...

I'm predicting you worry about this post too much....:p


I continue to laugh at yet another typical, classic BO member with tight goggles on.

Oh....and by the way, what a nice long winded come back. And YOU say I'm worried too much? There will always be THAT ONE guy...in the room. And you sir, are him. :)!

[vinsanity15]

What? Seriously who would have done better? Cavs weren't swept!

Pretty sure you were screaming "Sweep"

What Lebron did in last year's final is nothing short of amazing! Everyone counted the Cavs out, but they put up a fight.

Please name another player that would have done similar.

Agreed it was amazing, he did not have to win it what he did with that team no one else in NBA history would be able to do that except MJ. Wish he finished it though but it finally got to him he really had no help. I mean for anyone to say what he did last year was not amazing and a great accomplishment is just plain foolish please. That is why he still is for sure the best player in the league still today, and will be until he 34-35 years old.

[tke1600]

You probably don't have to take my post too seriously...:)!

But I mean...Is it sooooooooooo crazy with what's being said in this thread?

Jordan couldn't drop 40-50 on 50% shooting in the finals?

It's hypothetical so it's not really something we need to get into all that much, but if you want to do it just by the numbers, have a look and see if MJ's finals average could have got him the win in that situation...It's pretty close!

Oh and before you or anyone else gets it twisted, I have said the Current Warriors would give the 96 Bulls a lot more trouble then most people think they would and could run with them at the very least, along with a few other great teams...

I'm predicting you worry about this post too much....:p

I don't think any of the great players would have won a championship missing their 2nd/3rd options. Think of Jordan without Pippen/Rodman or even Curry last year without Klay/Green. They both could have shot 50% from the field and dropped 50 a game and would still lose the series.

If MJ or Curry would have lost a finals series in that context nobody would be doubting their abilities, but for some reason Lebron is held to a standard where he is not as good as others for losing the finals in that same scenario. Rings are a huge factor on a players legacy but they can't do it alone.

[6celtics33]

I want to get this on record right now on February 12th. So the Cavs have the highest payroll in the league. Do you Lebron lovers agree that this year he has enough to get it done? Of course barring injury but as is, I want to hear from you guys. Is it enough? Or is he alone? Commit to a point of view now so when the finals play out there will be no waffling.

[tke1600]

I want to get this on record right now on February 12th. So the Cavs have the highest payroll in the league. Do you Lebron lovers agree that this year he has enough to get it done? Of course barring injury but as is, I want to hear from you guys. Is it enough? Or is he alone? Commit to a point of view now so when the finals play out there will be no waffling.

I would pick the Spurs or Warriors to win the Finals over a full Cavs team this year. Either West team will have home court advantage, where they literally haven't lost and both teams are super deep. I think the Cavs starters could match up with both of their Starters but the 10-15 mins of bench play would hurt them too much.

[Jasondr91]

I don't think any of the great players would have won a championship missing their 2nd/3rd options. Think of Jordan without Pippen/Rodman or even Curry last year without Klay/Green. They both could have shot 50% from the field and dropped 50 a game and would still lose the series.

If MJ or Curry would have lost a finals series in that context nobody would be doubting their abilities, but for some reason Lebron is held to a standard where he is not as good as others for losing the finals in that same scenario. Rings are a huge factor on a players legacy but they can't do it alone.

This. Right. Here. :)!

Hegotgame15.... Are you paying attention?

[Orangejello727]

All I keep seeing is...

If Lebron is not #1 in a category its because he chose not to be but could easily be if he wanted.

If Lebron is #1 in a category its because he is the best and on he himself could have done it.

Its absurd how subjective the comparisons are and the cases being made to who is better. All that's being said is so and so is the best and you don't need stats to prove it. THen its followed up with a so and so is the best because his stats prove it. When someone points out the inconsistencies, you get back "its not a perfect science to the formula to determines the best".

So much fence sitting and cherry picking.

[Orangejello727]

I don't think any of the great players would have won a championship missing their 2nd/3rd options. Think of Jordan without Pippen/Rodman or even Curry last year without Klay/Green. They both could have shot 50% from the field and dropped 50 a game and would still lose the series.

If MJ or Curry would have lost a finals series in that context nobody would be doubting their abilities, but for some reason Lebron is held to a standard where he is not as good as others for losing the finals in that same scenario. Rings are a huge factor on a players legacy but they can't do it alone.

Fine lets take that argument.

How many finals did these guys lose with their team around them?
Lebron?
Magic?
Bird?

How many times did they end up at the final stage and how many did they win. Don't give me the excuse that other teams had better lineups because to be honest with you no losing team makes the finals. Its only winners at finals.

[tke1600]

Fine lets take that argument.

How many finals did these guys lose with their team around them?
Lebron?
Magic?
Bird?

How many times did they end up at the final stage and how many did they win. Don't give me the excuse that other teams had better lineups because to be honest with you no losing team makes the finals. Its only winners at finals.

My claim was I don't think they would win missing their 2nd/3rd options like Lebron did last year. This includes Magic and Bird. Of course Lebron has the worst finals record out of the 3. If you want to hold all of his Finals Cavs losses against him where his supporting casts were very sub par, then go ahead. I don't.

[Orangejello727]

My claim was I don't think they would win missing their 2nd/3rd options like Lebron did last year. This includes Magic and Bird. Of course Lebron has the worst finals record out of the 3. If you want to hold all of his Finals Cavs losses against him where his supporting casts were very sub par, then go ahead. I don't.

See there it is again. The excuse that he doesn't have enough to win. But he has enough to make it that far and win all those games? I can make that argument for just about every players that never won a title. What if I sit here and say MJ won 6 titles. But could have won 10 if he had a better support cast pre 1990? Because that's what you are doing for Lebron every step of the way.

It actually pretty simple. You either win a title or you don't in any given year. There is no "he came up short because of "Insert excuse here"".

Lebron had a team every year he was in the finals. Every player in the finals had a team. Whether they show up to play for the last series makes the difference between winning and losing. But don't take away credit by saying the team had enough to win its way all the way to the finals then claim they didn't have enough.

[pingbling23]

I want to get this on record right now on February 12th. So the Cavs have the highest payroll in the league. Do you Lebron lovers agree that this year he has enough to get it done? Of course barring injury but as is, I want to hear from you guys. Is it enough? Or is he alone? Commit to a point of view now so when the finals play out there will be no waffling.

Damn, do you have to be on the offensive and so antagonistic in most of your posts, you come across irritating. Yes the cavs have enough to win with a full and healthy team, but they will have to play near perfect to beat a team from the over stacked west.

[pingbling23]

See there it is again. The excuse that he doesn't have enough to win. But he has enough to make it that far and win all those games? I can make that argument for just about every players that never won a title. What if I sit here and say MJ won 6 titles. But could have won 10 if he had a better support cast pre 1990? Because that's what you are doing for Lebron every step of the way.

It actually pretty simple. You either win a title or you don't in any given year. There is no "he came up short because of "Insert excuse here"".

Lebron had a team every year he was in the finals. Every player in the finals had a team. Whether they show up to play for the last series makes the difference between winning and losing. But don't take away credit by saying the team had enough to win its way all the way to the finals then claim they didn't have enough.

I thought the common opinion is the east is so weak it's a cakewalk for lebron? So it's a weak argument that he has enough help to get there. We can't cherry pick facts right.

[rats60]

My claim was I don't think they would win missing their 2nd/3rd options like Lebron did last year. This includes Magic and Bird. Of course Lebron has the worst finals record out of the 3. If you want to hold all of his Finals Cavs losses against him where his supporting casts were very sub par, then go ahead. I don't.

That's fair, but the same applies to Magic. He still made 9 finals out of 12 years. LeBron has made 6 in 13. Magic won five, but 3 of the losses were in part because of injuries to key starters including Magic or Worthy. LeBron has only won 2. Blame the first on lack of talent, the last on injuries, but what about the other two with Wade and Bosh and then adding Allen?

I agree that no one wins with missing parts. The Bulls lost to the Magic in 95 and MJ blamed it on Grant leaving. The Bulls went out and got Rodman and won 3 in a row. I don't see the Bulls ever winning without Pippen and Grant or Rodman.

The bottom line is that at 13 years has LeBron done enough to pass Magic or Bird? In my opinion, no. Does that make me a hater? I don't think so. I still want LeBron on my all time starting 5 with Magic, Bird, MJ and Wilt. He also still has time to move up the list, but when you are moving in the top 10 it is tough, it takes special achievements, not making excuses.

[tke1600]

See there it is again. The excuse that he doesn't have enough to win. But he has enough to make it that far and win all those games? I can make that argument for just about every players that never won a title. What if I sit here and say MJ won 6 titles. But could have won 10 if he had a better support cast pre 1990? Because that's what you are doing for Lebron every step of the way.

It actually pretty simple. You either win a title or you don't in any given year. There is no "he came up short because of "Insert excuse here"".

Lebron had a team every year he was in the finals. Every player in the finals had a team. Whether they show up to play for the last series makes the difference between winning and losing. But don't take away credit by saying the team had enough to win its way all the way to the finals then claim they didn't have enough.

Ok. Lets look at what happened last year. Cavs start the playoffs at full strength. They then lose Love right before round 3. Now their team is not at full strength but still really good. Once they reach the finals, they lose Kyrie during the first game. So now after game 1 they are down their 2nd/3rd options. They somehow win the next 2 games but then lose the next 3 pretty handily.

So yes, they had enough to get to the finals but not enough to win it.

[pingbling23]

Ok. Lets look at what happened last year. Cavs start the playoffs at full strength. They then lose Love right before round 3. Now their team is not at full strength but still really good. Once they reach the finals, they lose Kyrie during the first game. So now after game 1 they are down their 2nd/3rd options. They somehow win the next 2 games but then lose the next 3 pretty handily.

So yes, they had enough to get to the finals but not enough to win it.

You don't have to spell it out for him, it's common sense. He just does this when lebrons involved. Just like he and I use to go back and forth on who is better Kobe or lebron. Now the experts have lebron in the top 5 and Kobe outside of the top 10 all time.

[tke1600]

That's fair, but the same applies to Magic. He still made 9 finals out of 12 years. LeBron has made 6 in 13. Magic won five, but 3 of the losses were in part because of injuries to key starters including Magic or Worthy. LeBron has only won 2. Blame the first on lack of talent, the last on injuries, but what about the other two with Wade and Bosh and then adding Allen?

I agree that no one wins with missing parts. The Bulls lost to the Magic in 95 and MJ blamed it on Grant leaving. The Bulls went out and got Rodman and won 3 in a row. I don't see the Bulls ever winning without Pippen and Grant or Rodman.

The bottom line is that at 13 years has LeBron done enough to pass Magic or Bird? In my opinion, no. Does that make me a hater? I don't think so. I still want LeBron on my all time starting 5 with Magic, Bird, MJ and Wilt. He also still has time to move up the list, but when you are moving in the top 10 it is tough, it takes special achievements, not making excuses.

I've defended Lebron the most about his playoff/finals record based on his supporting casts during his entire Cavs career, including last year when he was down players when it counted the most. His first 7 years in Cleveland he had very little support as most have pointed out already. I actually think it's a positive how far they made it in the playoffs the years they did with just a young Lebron leading the team.

When he was with the Heat he did have a great supporting cast and went 2-2 in the finals in the 4 years he was on that team. I also think that is a positive and I don't hold it against him for not going 4/4 in the finals. They did go back to back which is extremely hard to do. His 50% finals win rate with a good supporting cast is very close to Magic and Bird's finals win rate.

Lastly, My only claim is that when it's all said and done, Lebron will be the clear #2 player barring injury. That doesn't put him ahead of Magic or Bird right now, but only when it's all said and done and we are comparing all players with their entire career accomplishments.

[elee712]

You don't have to spell it out for him, it's common sense. He just does this when lebrons involved. Just like he and I use to go back and forth on who is better Kobe or lebron. Now the experts have lebron in the top 5 and Kobe outside of the top 10 all time.

How much of a difference would you say having love/Kyrie would have made? Of course it's all hypothetical so there's no right or wrong answer but it's hard to assume a healthy squad would have resulted in the Cavs winning it all...

[elee712]

I've defended Lebron the most about his playoff/finals record based on his supporting casts during his entire Cavs career, including last year when he was down players when it counted the most. His first 7 years in Cleveland he had very little support as most have pointed out already. I actually think it's a positive how far they made it in the playoffs the years they did with just a young Lebron leading the team.

When he was with the Heat he did have a great supporting cast and went 2-2 in the finals in the 4 years he was on that team. I also think that is a positive and I don't hold it against him for not going 4/4 in the finals. They did go back to back which is extremely hard to do. His 50% finals win rate with a good supporting cast is very close to Magic and Bird's finals win rate.

Lastly, My only claim is that when it's all said and done, Lebron will be the clear #2 player barring injury. That doesn't put him ahead of Magic or Bird right now, but only when it's all said and done and we are comparing all players with their entire career accomplishments.

I can't see him being #2 if he doesn't win another ring or two. He's probably projected to be considered #2 when it's all said and done but that's assuming he adds hardware to his resume.

[tke1600]

How much of a difference would you say having love/Kyrie would have made? Of course it's all hypothetical so there's no right or wrong answer but it's hard to assume a healthy squad would have resulted in the Cavs winning it all...

They were up 2-1 in the series even without them so it wouldn't have been out of the question.

[Orangejello727]

I thought the common opinion is the east is so weak it's a cakewalk for lebron? So it's a weak argument that he has enough help to get there. We can't cherry pick facts right.

That's right. I never said the east was weak in this thread. So lets not cherry pick. Keep it simple and clean....

You either win a championship or you don't. In order to get to the final show, you have to be a real good team. Therefore...

Each team that LeBron had that played in the finals was a great team. Just like every other team that was in the finals and lost. They were all great teams. Just so happens the better team of players won each time. This is why when stats are read off, they include the number of rings a player won and not the number of rings a player "could" have won "if" "insert excuse" happened.

[groundsupport]

Magic and Bird never had a finals quite like Lebron did when he basically forgot he was playing in the NBA finals against Dallas.

[6celtics33]

Magic and Bird never had a finals quite like Lebron did when he basically forgot he was playing in the NBA finals against Dallas.


Exactly and if that comes across as being antagonistic so be it. I'm a grown man. I didn't know everyone was so sensitive. Sorry pingaling. Let me try and say it nicer for you.

If Lebron gets all the credit for getting them there then he deserves some blame when he can't close. It's that simple. You all want to give him credit for beating weak opponents then blame everyone else for the losses to good teams.

They have the highest payroll in the league. He has help. There are no excuses this year. If he's as good as you all make him out to be he's got to get it done.

[vinsanity15]

I can't see him being #2 if he doesn't win another ring or two. He's probably projected to be considered #2 when it's all said and done but that's assuming he adds hardware to his resume.

If he just wins one ring for Cleveland it over he locks up the 2nd spot. If he somehow gets 2-3 which I still think he could then it over for sure secound best player ever no one can question it. I think lebron will get 2 more before he done and that will cement his legacy and all the haters will have to shut up. Let's hope I'm right and it happens time will tell.

[groundsupport]

sFe8KUEQdn4



0 points in 4th.

[6celtics33]

He had the better team against Dallas and laid an egg but none of you want to talk about that

[vinsanity15]

That's right. I never said the east was weak in this thread. So lets not cherry pick. Keep it simple and clean....

You either win a championship or you don't. In order to get to the final show, you have to be a real good team. Therefore...

Each team that LeBron had that played in the finals was a great team. Just like every other team that was in the finals and lost. They were all great teams. Just so happens the better team of players won each time. This is why when stats are read off, they include the number of rings a player won and not the number of rings a player "could" have won "if" "insert excuse" happened.

Are you kidding me the cavs 2007 team freaking sucked it was all lebron. Big Z and Hughes were the secound option lol please. That was also amazing what lebron did that year taking that team to the finals at 22 no one else in NBA history would have of been able to do that with that team, except MJ. So please sometimes it really is just one player.

[Orangejello727]

Magic and Bird never had a finals quite like Lebron did when he basically forgot he was playing in the NBA finals against Dallas.

Please don't focus on that groundsupport. We cant have you ever say a bad thing about the king or ever point out where he failed. It just cant be. The king doesn't fail. Others fail and bring him down.

[groundsupport]

Please don't focus on that groundsupport. We cant have you ever say a bad thing about the king or ever point out where he failed. It just cant be. The king doesn't fail. Others fail and bring him down.

Should I bring up the 2-1 series lead?

[6celtics33]

Vinsanity please give me a Lebron fans perspective on the Dallas series. Who is to blame for that one?

[vinsanity15]

He had the better team against Dallas and laid an egg but none of you want to talk about that

Yes he did it happens it was the first finals for the big 3 and wade and bosh did #@#@#@#@ to, so for everyone that wants to say lebron had all the help in the world the other 2 big name guys also did $hit. But it was there first series together. Did Lebron play like crap yes. But they came back from it the next 2 years and won back to back so it worked out. Curry played like crap last year finals besides 1 game or2 but his team carried him but no one talks about that right. If that was Lebronwho won and played like #@#@#@#@ and Kyrie won finals MVP, everyone and there mother would be craping on Lebron for how he played and they would say he is lucky he had Kyrie. But not with curry right cause everyone loves him and everyone is on him hard but that cool it is what it is. Lebron has a ton of lovers yes but he also has more haters then anyone to goes both ways.

[vinsanity15]

Vinsanity please give me a Lebron fans perspective on the Dallas series. Who is to blame for that one?

Just answered you I said he did play like $hit it happens but so did wade and bosh I'm not gunna deny that. But he came back strong the next 2 years and played like a beast.

[6celtics33]

Wade didn't play bad. It wasn't Lebrons first finals and if we're saying it was the big 3's first finals together.... How many finals did those Mavs play together before that one?

0, just the same as the Heat. And that is what should go both ways.

[Orangejello727]

Yes he did it happens it was the first finals for the big 3 and wade and bosh did #@#@#@#@ to, so for everyone that wants to say lebron had all the help in the world the other 2 big name guys also did $hit. But it was there first series together. Did Lebron play like crap yes. But they came back from it the next 2 years and won back to back so it worked out. Curry played like crap last year finals besides 1 game or2 but his team carried him but no one talks about that right. If that was Lebronwho won and played like #@#@#@#@ and Kyrie won finals MVP, everyone and there mother would be craping on Lebron for how he played and they would say he is lucky he had Kyrie. But not with curry right cause everyone loves him and everyone is on him hard but that cool it is what it is. Lebron has a ton of lovers yes but he also has more haters then anyone to goes both ways.


Ahh I get it. So even when he has a supporting cast and loses, its someone elses fault. When he doesn't have a supporting cast its someone elses fault.

When he doesn't perform its because he didn't want to. When he does perform its because he did just enough and didn't want to go overboard.

When he wins and 100% because of him. When he loses its because those around him threw the game.

Its really getting old. He had the support in Miami and yet you think he didn't have enough. You keep saying its always only been him and no one else that gets him the rings. So which is it? Just pick one dammit.

[groundsupport]

Yes he did it happens it was the first finals for the big 3 and wade and bosh did #@#@#@#@ to, so for everyone that wants to say lebron had all the help in the world the other 2 big name guys also did $hit. But it was there first series together. Did Lebron play like crap yes. But they came back from it the next 2 years and won back to back so it worked out. Curry played like crap last year finals besides 1 game or2 but his team carried him but no one talks about that right. If that was Lebronwho won and played like #@#@#@#@ and Kyrie won finals MVP, everyone and there mother would be craping on Lebron for how he played and they would say he is lucky he had Kyrie. But not with curry right cause everyone loves him and everyone is on him hard but that cool it is what it is. Lebron has a ton of lovers yes but he also has more haters then anyone to goes both ways.


Miami Heat vs. Dallas Mavericks - Box Score - June 07, 2011 - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310607006)

Here's a history lesson.

2011 NBA Finals | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-finals-mavericks-vs-heat.html)

And another History lesson.

Sorry, the best player in the world doesn't get a pass because you talk sports out of your ass making false accusations about 2 players who actually did their jobs. Wade 26.5 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg, but he was so horrible. Bosh, 18 ppg, 7 rpg.

Lebron 18 ppg only. Which is down 9 ppg from the regular season.

So in other words. It's all on Lebron.

[tke1600]

It sounds like a few of you need to take it up with the experts who put Lebron #3 all time and ahead of Magic and Bird.

I don't see anyone here over-exaggerating Lebron's accomplishments or giving him a complete pass for his finals record. There are very sound and logical reasons why he lost when he did with the Cavs, and there is also games where he played terrible like vs Dallas. The only player who has a perfect record in the finals out of the top players ranked in the current list is MJ and he is ranked clearly as #1.

[discostu]

I skipped a couple pages, but when/where exactly is Lebron going to win another title, let alone the 2 titles to get him tied with Bird?

[elee712]

Ahh I get it. So even when he has a supporting cast and loses, its someone elses fault. When he doesn't have a supporting cast its someone elses fault.

When he doesn't perform its because he didn't want to. When he does perform its because he did just enough and didn't want to go overboard.

When he wins and 100% because of him. When he loses its because those around him threw the game.

Its really getting old. He had the support in Miami and yet you think he didn't have enough. You keep saying its always only been him and no one else that gets him the rings. So which is it? Just pick one dammit.


why do you even try?

[tke1600]

Miami Heat vs. Dallas Mavericks - Box Score - June 07, 2011 - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310607006)

Here's a history lesson.

2011 NBA Finals | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-finals-mavericks-vs-heat.html)

And another History lesson.

Sorry, the best player in the world doesn't get a pass because you talk sports out of your ass making false accusations about 2 players who actually did their jobs. Wade 26.5 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg, but he was so horrible. Bosh, 18 ppg, 7 rpg.

Lebron 18 ppg only. Which is down 9 ppg from the regular season.

So in other words. It's all on Lebron.

Thanks for the lesson. Good thing you left out his FG% (48%), his RPG (7.2) and APG (6.8) in the series to make it look like he was useless. I give you an A in skewing and omtion.

[asujbl]

I skipped a couple pages, but when/where exactly is Lebron going to win another title, let alone the 2 titles to get him tied with Bird?

So are you giving Bird a free one or taking one away from LeBron?

[Orangejello727]

It sounds like a few of you need to take it up with the experts who put Lebron #3 all time and ahead of Magic and Bird.

I don't see anyone here over-exaggerating Lebron's accomplishments or giving him a complete pass for his finals record. There are very sound and logical reasons why he lost when he did with the Cavs, and there is also games where he played terrible like vs Dallas. The only player who has a perfect record in the finals out of the top players ranked in the current list is MJ and he is ranked clearly as #1.

I have no issues with whomever puts whatever player they want at any position. Really doesn't matter. If you want to put him at #3 and I put him at #11, it the same thing. Your opinion vs mine.

Im not dogging Lebron. Infact I think he is a great player. I just happen to think there are others better than him.

[tke1600]

I have no issues with whomever puts whatever player they want at any position. Really doesn't matter. If you want to put him at #3 and I put him at #11, it the same thing. Your opinion vs mine.

Im not dogging Lebron. Infact I think he is a great player. I just happen to think there are others better than him.

I understand this. It may seem like I'm defending Lebron tooth and nail, but the experts actually rank him higher than what I even think right now. He needs to do more in my eyes to get to #2-3, but ESPN ranks him #3 already based on the projections they have for him.

[Orangejello727]

I understand this. It may seem like I'm defending Lebron tooth and nail, but the experts actually rank him higher than what I even think right now. He needs to do more in my eyes to get to #2-3, but ESPN ranks him #3 already based on the projections they have for him.

I put literally no emphasis on what certain people from journalism say. I think its pretty well known that I have no respect for the guys that vote MVP as well. Both to me are biased. Its in their interest to have certain players projected at higher values as their jobs depend on it. I mean without giving kudos to certain players that are endorsed by big advertisers like Nike and Gatorade who place ads within the very magazines these guys write for.

I wouldn't advertise in any magazine that snubbed my main guy that sells my product!!

I rather just hear what players who play with these guys have to say. Let the players rank them.

[discostu]

I skipped a couple pages, but when/where exactly is Lebron going to win another title, let alone the 2 titles to get him tied with Bird?

So are you giving Bird a free one or taking one away from LeBron?

Haha, yep, I missed the comma...although parenthesis would have been better.

"I skipped a couple pages, but when/where exactly is Lebron going to win another title (let alone the 2 titles) to get him tied with Bird?"

Regardless, basketball is a sport where one superstar individual is supposed to carry his team to titles. Fair or not, it seems to be a common thread.

[tke1600]

I put literally no emphasis on what certain people from journalism say. I think its pretty well known that I have no respect for the guys that vote MVP as well. Both to me are biased. Its in their interest to have certain players projected at higher values as their jobs depend on it. I mean without giving kudos to certain players that are endorsed by big advertisers like Nike and Gatorade who place ads within the very magazines these guys write for.

I wouldn't advertise in any magazine that snubbed my main guy that sells my product!!

I rather just hear what players who play with these guys have to say. Let the players rank them.

I don't think Nike would have pulled their ads if Lebron was ranked 6th instead of 3rd. From some of the arguments I've read against Lebron, It sounds like they are arguing to have Lebron outstide the top 10 or more. So basically we would have to agree to disagree being so far apart.

[groundsupport]

Thanks for the lesson. Good thing you left out his FG% (48%), his RPG (7.2) and APG (6.8) in the series to make it look like he was useless. I give you an A in skewing and omtion.


So you ignore the fact that you're talking sports out of your ass. You said Bosh and Wade did #%$@#%%^@#%@#.

[Orangejello727]

I don't think Nike would have pulled their ads if Lebron was ranked 6th instead of 3rd. From some of the arguments I've read against Lebron, It sounds like they are arguing to have Lebron outstide the top 10 or more. So basically we would have to agree to disagree being so far apart.

Probably take more than that. But putting him as high as possible sure helps their case!! Either way, you have a bunch of guys that don't play basketball that sit around and try and figure out whos the best by turning a skill into a formula based on what they think since they've never actually played against these guys let alone knowing what the best is.

But they what do I know!! I guess someone who doesn't play the game nor against these players knows more about who is better than the guys that actually play the game and against the very players they rank. Go figure!

[tke1600]

So you ignore the fact that you're talking sports out of your ass. You said Bosh and Wade did #%$@#%%^@#%@#.

That wasn't me who said that.

[rhigh2390]

Yes he did it happens it was the first finals for the big 3 and wade and bosh did #@#@#@#@ to, so for everyone that wants to say lebron had all the help in the world the other 2 big name guys also did $hit. But it was there first series together. Did Lebron play like crap yes. But they came back from it the next 2 years and won back to back so it worked out. Curry played like crap last year finals besides 1 game or2 but his team carried him but no one talks about that right. If that was Lebronwho won and played like #@#@#@#@ and Kyrie won finals MVP, everyone and there mother would be craping on Lebron for how he played and they would say he is lucky he had Kyrie. But not with curry right cause everyone loves him and everyone is on him hard but that cool it is what it is. Lebron has a ton of lovers yes but he also has more haters then anyone to goes both ways.

I'll give you that Bosh shot 41% so you get a pass a little bit on that one even though he had more points than lebron in the series, but Wade played like crap???

26.5 PPG, 7 Rebs, 5.2 Ast on 54.5% shooting?? Wow... Can't get much more than that from your second fiddle in an NBA Finals series.

[vinsanity15]

Ahh I get it. So even when he has a supporting cast and loses, its someone elses fault. When he doesn't have a supporting cast its someone elses fault.

When he doesn't perform its because he didn't want to. When he does perform its because he did just enough and didn't want to go overboard.

When he wins and 100% because of him. When he loses its because those around him threw the game.

Its really getting old. He had the support in Miami and yet you think he didn't have enough. You keep saying its always only been him and no one else that gets him the rings. So which is it? Just pick one dammit.


I never said he did not have enough help in the finals with the heat read what I write I said he played like $hit vs the mavs I'm not denying that. It just it crazy how you say all his teams were great that made it to the finals. That 2007 cavs team was all him the team itself sucked. And last year it was all him to. Come on now bro is it his fault sometimes hell yes, but don't act like all his teams were great and he did not lead them to the finals and do everything. That 2007 cavs team should of been no where near the finals, and no way in hell should of last years cavs team win 2 games it was all LEBRON. That all I'm saying in those 2 cases. You wanna blame him for mavs lose fine he deserves it, you wanna blame him for the lose to the Spurs fine. But was not really his fault the Spurs were just a way better team.

But to crap on him about 2007 and last years finals I'm sorry bro that is just freaking crazy be fair here come on.

[vinsanity15]

Miami Heat vs. Dallas Mavericks - Box Score - June 07, 2011 - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310607006)

Here's a history lesson.

2011 NBA Finals | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-finals-mavericks-vs-heat.html)

And another History lesson.

Sorry, the best player in the world doesn't get a pass because you talk sports out of your ass making false accusations about 2 players who actually did their jobs. Wade 26.5 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg, but he was so horrible. Bosh, 18 ppg, 7 rpg.

Lebron 18 ppg only. Which is down 9 ppg from the regular season.

So in other words. It's all on Lebron.

Fine that series I said he played like crap fine. But your talking out of your ass if your gunna blame him for the 2007 finals lose and last year please bro.

[vinsanity15]

It sounds like a few of you need to take it up with the experts who put Lebron #3 all time and ahead of Magic and Bird.

I don't see anyone here over-exaggerating Lebron's accomplishments or giving him a complete pass for his finals record. There are very sound and logical reasons why he lost when he did with the Cavs, and there is also games where he played terrible like vs Dallas. The only player who has a perfect record in the finals out of the top players ranked in the current list is MJ and he is ranked clearly as #1.

Exactly thank you.

[vinsanity15]

Thanks for the lesson. Good thing you left out his FG% (48%), his RPG (7.2) and APG (6.8) in the series to make it look like he was useless. I give you an A in skewing and omtion.

Hahaaa also true he did not do complete crap the guy is just on his own agenda. It was convenient of him to leave those stats out hahaa lol. Lebron is the only guy any would critics for scoring 18 ppt shooting 50% and averaging 7 and7 it crazy but it how it is. Should have he played better yes it he was not full trash for lebron standard he was not good.

[vinsanity15]

I have no issues with whomever puts whatever player they want at any position. Really doesn't matter. If you want to put him at #3 and I put him at #11, it the same thing. Your opinion vs mine.

Im not dogging Lebron. Infact I think he is a great player. I just happen to think there are others better than him.

That fine but you always seem to $hit on him when he does not deserve it that all I'm saying. Craping on him for last year finals and 2007 is just freaking crazy to do it really is nuts. There is not one good reason to crap on him about those 2 finals loses not 1 that all I'm saying.

[elee712]

It sounds like a few of you need to take it up with the experts who put Lebron #3 all time and ahead of Magic and Bird.

I don't see anyone here over-exaggerating Lebron's accomplishments or giving him a complete pass for his finals record. There are very sound and logical reasons why he lost when he did with the Cavs, and there is also games where he played terrible like vs Dallas. The only player who has a perfect record in the finals out of the top players ranked in the current list is MJ and he is ranked clearly as #1.

Aren't these the same guys who ranked Curry #4 on the all time point guard list? I believe shortly after the blowout community nearly imploded.

[vinsanity15]

I'll give you that Bosh shot 41% so you get a pass a little bit on that one even though he had more points than lebron in the series, but Wade played like crap???

26.5 PPG, 7 Rebs, 5.2 Ast on 54.5% shooting?? Wow... Can't get much more than that from your second fiddle in an NBA Finals series.

And wade played good my fault on that one not afraid to admitte I was wrong unlike some here. But yes bosh did play like crap 40% is trash, and lebron did not play as bad as everyone thought 18 7 and 7 shooting almost 50% is not terrible lol. Should have he played better cause he lebron hell yes but he was not a complete bum lol.

[tke1600]

Aren't these the same guys who ranked Curry #4 on the all time point guard list? I believe shortly after the blowout community nearly imploded.

Yes. Him being 23rd and the #4 PG was too high in my eyes because I think they used way too much "future success" to rank him there. But, I would guess some experts give him ring #2 and MVP #2 for this year already in their rankings, which would then not make him that far off from top 25 all time with the years he has left. Right now Curry seems unstoppable but in reality he has only been on this torrid pace for 18 months so I would want to see him keep it up to be ranked higher.

I don't think Lebron needs too much more success to be ranked where he is at right now or top 5 all time, so that is why I agree more with Lebron being so high more than Curry already being so high.

[elee712]

Yes. Him being 23rd and the #4 PG was too high in my eyes because I think they used way too much "future success" to rank him there. But, I would guess some experts give him ring #2 and MVP #2 for this year already in their rankings, which would then not make him that far off from top 25 all time with the years he has left. Right now Curry seems unstoppable but in reality he has only been on this torrid pace for 18 months so I would want to see him keep it up to be ranked higher.

I don't think Lebron needs too much more success to be ranked where he is at right now or top 5 all time, so that is why I agree more with Lebron being so high more than Curry already being so high.

I agree with this as well but again, it's all subjective and referencing ESPN when it comes to ranking may not be the best idea.

I believe Lebron really needs to win in Cleveland to be considered in the top few of all time. Championships may not be the only gauge to a successful career but it means a great deal in a subjective critic's eyes and the two rings he won in Miami means far less than if he stayed in Cleveland to win them.

[Orangejello727]

I never said he did not have enough help in the finals with the heat read what I write I said he played like $hit vs the mavs I'm not denying that. It just it crazy how you say all his teams were great that made it to the finals. That 2007 cavs team was all him the team itself sucked. And last year it was all him to. Come on now bro is it his fault sometimes hell yes, but don't act like all his teams were great and he did not lead them to the finals and do everything. That 2007 cavs team should of been no where near the finals, and no way in hell should of last years cavs team win 2 games it was all LEBRON. That all I'm saying in those 2 cases. You wanna blame him for mavs lose fine he deserves it, you wanna blame him for the lose to the Spurs fine. But was not really his fault the Spurs were just a way better team.

But to crap on him about 2007 and last years finals I'm sorry bro that is just freaking crazy be fair here come on.

Im sorry but bad teams don't fisnish with great records and make the finals. Good teams do. Its that simple.

My statement is, Lebron is a great player on great teams that win. He just happens to lose in the finals more than win.

[vinsanity15]

I agree with this as well but again, it's all subjective and referencing ESPN when it comes to ranking may not be the best idea.

I believe Lebron really needs to win in Cleveland to be considered in the top few of all time. Championships may not be the only gauge to a successful career but it means a great deal in a subjective critic's eyes and the two rings he won in Miami means far less than if he stayed in Cleveland to win them.

Yes for sure I agree with you 1000% he has to win one in Cleveland. If he does that it over his legacy will be cemented as secound best all time. Winning one in Cleveland is like winning 2 somewhere else. He has to win one there for his legacy and I think he will hopefully he wins 2-3 more haha.

[elee712]

Yes for sure I agree with you 1000% he has to win one in Cleveland. If he does that it over his legacy will be cemented as secound best all time. Winning one in Cleveland is like winning 2 somewhere else. He has to win one there for his legacy and I think he will hopefully he wins 2-3 more haha.

I don't know if one in Cleveland will guarantee him as the second best in history but it will get him closer.

[vinsanity15]

Im sorry but bad teams don't fisnish with great records and make the finals. Good teams do. Its that simple.

My statement is, Lebron is a great player on great teams that win. He just happens to lose in the finals more than win.

Hahaa whatever man that 2007 was not a great team they were trash all lebron I can't believe you don't realize that. And last year in the finals no one was winning with that team it was amazing lebron kept it that close. You can't crap on him for either of those loses if you do it just foolish or your just a lebron hater. Because no logical person would blame him for those 2 final loses.

[Orangejello727]

Yes for sure I agree with you 1000% he has to win one in Cleveland. If he does that it over his legacy will be cemented as secound best all time. Winning one in Cleveland is like winning 2 somewhere else. He has to win one there for his legacy and I think he will hopefully he wins 2-3 more haha.

So now you want Lebron to get 2 for 1 on rings? lol. Anything else?

[vinsanity15]

I don't know if one in Cleveland will guarantee him as the second best in history but it will get him closer.

Might not but he will be right there it would be Big for his legacy to just get 1 there if he gets 2 then for sure he cements it. One it still up for a little debate but I still think he has it.

[Orangejello727]

Hahaa whatever man that 2007 was not a great team they were trash all lebron I can't believe you don't realize that. And last year in the finals no one was winning with that team it was amazing lebron kept it that close. You can't crap on him for either of those loses if you do it just foolish or your just a lebron hater. Because no logical person would blame him for those 2 final loses.

That's not how I see it. How I see it is NO one but GS was winning last year. ITs a fact. Not because Lebron didn't have enough. But rather because if Lebron had everything in the world, GS would have still beat them.

So GS won because they were the best. Not because Lebron didn't have enough. Last year Lebron could never have enough to win against GS.

[vinsanity15]

So now you want Lebron to get 2 for 1 on rings? lol. Anything else?

Joking man come on now I'm just saying Cleveland has won crap in it history so if lebron brings them a ring it like he won 2 lol. Obviously I'm joking relax are you sure you like lebron. Does not seem like it you crap on him s lot for no reason lol.

[vinsanity15]

That's not how I see it. How I see it is NO one but GS was winning last year. ITs a fact. Not because Lebron didn't have enough. But rather because if Lebron had everything in the world, GS would have still beat them.

So GS won because they were the best. Not because Lebron didn't have enough. Last year Lebron could never have enough to win against GS.

Okay fine that your opinion I respect it we will end it like that. I strongly disagree with you but we all have our own thoughts. There is just one thing that no one can debate Lebron at this moment is a all time great player, and still has a lot of time left so let's see how it plays out.

[rats60]

I don't know if one in Cleveland will guarantee him as the second best in history but it will get him closer.

He needs to win 3 in a row in Cleveland to be in the discussion for #2. The NBA didn't begin in 1990.

[groundsupport]

Fine that series I said he played like crap fine. But your talking out of your ass if your gunna blame him for the 2007 finals lose and last year please bro.

Please quote me on that son.

[pingbling23]

people forget the first year of the big 3 when they lost to dallas, lebron deferred to wade, as it was "wades team". after the loss to dallas, wade went to lebron and said youre the best player and its your team, lead us. what happened the next 2 seasons? how did lebrons stats look then? but yeah, that loss to dallas was weak. someone made the point to say it was dallas' first finals like it was the heats. they forgot to mention that dallas had been playing with each other for years, that heat squad had not.

[asujbl]

I love how people at this point, now that this thread has gone full basketball boards, are acting like Dallas was a D League team. It's an insult to another Top 50 player (and a guy that should be ranked way higher on that list then where he is) to act like LeBron should have steamrolled them and it's some huge travesty that he didn't

[groundsupport]

I love how people at this point, now that this thread has gone full basketball boards, are acting like Dallas was a D League team. It's an insult to another Top 50 player (and a guy that should be ranked way higher on that list then where he is) to act like LeBron should have steamrolled them and it's some huge travesty that he didn't

So Dallas is the reason why he only scored 8 points.

Gotcha.

[jstasyk1121]

So now you want Lebron to get 2 for 1 on rings? lol. Anything else?

no different than people discrediting his two rings in MIA as if they arent the same as others titles from the past...everyone acts like he doesnt have 2 rings...like since he joined MIA those dont quite count the same...like he has to win in CLEV to show that he really has titles...no...he has 2...just the same as any Bulls title, Lakers title, Celtics title...they are all legit championships except somehow Lebron takes a hit and has to "prove" he can win in cleveland too....no he doesnt...if he never wins there than he just ends up with 2 titles...they dont have an * next to them...

[asujbl]

So Dallas is the reason why he only scored 8 points.

Gotcha.

Yep. That's exactly what I said.

You've gotten worse in 2016. I'm actually impressed.

[groundsupport]

Yep. That's exactly what I said.

You've gotten worse in 2016. I'm actually impressed.

The homer in your has gotten worse as well.

The guy could score at will against the Pistons D in 2007 in the playoffs, and somehow, is completely shut down.


Whatever way you want to spin it to make Lebron not look bad homer boy.

[asujbl]

The homer in your has gotten worse as well.

The guy could score at will against the Pistons D in 2007 in the playoffs, and somehow, is completely shut down.


Whatever way you want to spin it to make Lebron not look bad homer boy.

Break out the SPF. I'm in need.

I only made it one day of lent. I need to try harder.

[Orangejello727]

I love how people at this point, now that this thread has gone full basketball boards, are acting like Dallas was a D League team. It's an insult to another Top 50 player (and a guy that should be ranked way higher on that list then where he is) to act like LeBron should have steamrolled them and it's some huge travesty that he didn't

Some of your boys are acting like GS last year was a D league team and how Lebron should have flew through that series if he had support. Please!! Same game being played on both sides

[Orangejello727]

no different than people discrediting his two rings in MIA as if they arent the same as others titles from the past...everyone acts like he doesnt have 2 rings...like since he joined MIA those dont quite count the same...like he has to win in CLEV to show that he really has titles...no...he has 2...just the same as any Bulls title, Lakers title, Celtics title...they are all legit championships except somehow Lebron takes a hit and has to "prove" he can win in cleveland too....no he doesnt...if he never wins there than he just ends up with 2 titles...they dont have an * next to them...

I will be the first to say that Lebron won 2 rings while in Miami. I don't take that away from him. Those are legitimate wins. What I will not do is give him titles that he didn't win based on pure speculation that he could have won them if "Insert excuse" was the case. That is what is happening with LeBron homers in this thread. They are basically saying Lebron should have won a ring last season. That's not true. He didn't win one and nothing could have helped him win one. Whether he had love and kyrie or not. The same goes for the other years he lost. Plain and simple, he lost those years. There is no going back and doing what ifs and acting like he deserves them.

[bulljh]

1. James isn't winning a title for "the land".

2. Love and Irving would have never matched the defencive output that Thompson and Delly had agaisnt GS last year. Thompson is a much better player than love is in that system.

3. Defense of teams had better matchup against the Warriors last year. That's why I feel the Cavs had a better team on the floor in the finals.

[pingbling23]

do people not realize when the cavs lost the last 3 finals games they were exhausted due to the rotation being without irving and love. no, its just easier to say that they wouldnt have been any better with their second and third best players. do you all actually read what you post????

[bulljh]

do people not realize when the cavs lost the last 3 finals games they were exhausted due to the rotation being without irving and love. no, its just easier to say that they wouldnt have been any better with their second and third best players. do you all actually read what you post????

It would have been a completely different series. It would have been more up and down with a faster pace . There is no way Cleveland would have hung with the Warriors in that style of ball. No team has been able to.

Yeah, I'll give you that bench was depleted but most teams usually only play 7-8 players during the playoffs.

[pingbling23]

It would have been a completely different series. It would have been more up and down with a faster pace . There is no way Cleveland would have hung with the Warriors in that style of ball. No team has been able to.

Yeah, I'll give you that bench was depleted but most teams usually only play 7-8 players during the playoffs.

why would it have been a faster pace? the cavs game plan was to keep it at a slow pace. kyrie and love being in the game would not change that. i cant believe some people are actually saying the cavs wouldnt have been better with love and kyrie on the floor lmao. just having the bodies to spread minutes around would have helped.

[vinsanity15]

1. James isn't winning a title for "the land".

2. Love and Irving would have never matched the defencive output that Thompson and Delly had agaisnt GS last year. Thompson is a much better player than love is in that system.

3. Defense of teams had better matchup against the Warriors last year. That's why I feel the Cavs had a better team on the floor in the finals.

1.) You are freaking nut lol. WOW.

[vinsanity15]

why would it have been a faster pace? the cavs game plan was to keep it at a slow pace. kyrie and love being in the game would not change that. i cant believe some people are actually saying the cavs wouldnt have been better with love and kyrie on the floor lmao. just having the bodies to spread minutes around would have helped.

Just don't respond to him they guy makes no sense, to say what he said is crazy let it be.

[vinsanity15]

I will be the first to say that Lebron won 2 rings while in Miami. I don't take that away from him. Those are legitimate wins. What I will not do is give him titles that he didn't win based on pure speculation that he could have won them if "Insert excuse" was the case. That is what is happening with LeBron homers in this thread. They are basically saying Lebron should have won a ring last season. That's not true. He didn't win one and nothing could have helped him win one. Whether he had love and kyrie or not. The same goes for the other years he lost. Plain and simple, he lost those years. There is no going back and doing what ifs and acting like he deserves them.

Where just saying that it would have been a different series that all. And just pointing out that you can't blame Lebron for last years finals lose at all which it seems to be what you are doing that is all. He played with literally no one on his team and still won 2 games. Only someone who thinks logically that if he had a healthy team they would have won the championship. But like i said just my opinion clearly I'm not the only one though cause others feel the same weather they are cars fans or not.

Also for the record at least you make sense in your arguments unlike others here. It is actually a educated argument we are having and I feel we both have good points just wanna throw that out here. Your not like some other Golden state morons on here which is good. You are just a basketball guy making some valid points. But i feel that i am to and others in this thread are as well, that have to be taken into consideration that all, and i think they are very logical points as well.

[vinsanity15]

Please quote me on that son.

My bad son was not you, it was orange.

[Hegotgame15]

This thread is like a reunion....all the players are back....where's murrke03....:(

Seems like none of us have progressed, myself included...:)!

So with that in mind...LeBron you are a poo poo face:doh:

[rhigh2390]

Lebron fans look at it as one of two ways.

1. Lebron is really 2-0 in the Finals because the ones he "lost" were because lebron's teams were injured/not good.
OR
2. Lebron is 6-0 in the Finals because just getting there with the teams he did is enough for a ring in their mind/the team he was playing against was a better team so he's not expected to win it.

Either one of those thoughts by lebron fans don't compare very well to realists who just watch him and critique him like every other NBA great and say he is 2-4 in the Finals, which is an unbiased, non-hater, fact.

[pingbling23]

This thread is like a reunion....all the players are back....where's murrke03....:(

Seems like none of us have progressed, myself included...:)!

So with that in mind...LeBron you are a poo poo face:doh:

hahaha, best post in this thread.

[pingbling23]

Lebron fans look at it as one of two ways.

1. Lebron is really 2-0 in the Finals because the ones he "lost" were because lebron's teams were injured/not good.
OR
2. Lebron is 6-0 in the Finals because just getting there with the teams he did is enough for a ring in their mind/the team he was playing against was a better team so he's not expected to win it.

Either one of those thoughts by lebron fans don't compare very well to realists who just watch him and critique him like every other NBA great and say he is 2-4 in the Finals, which is an unbiased, non-hater, fact.

oh gosh, here comes the bulls fans. we get it, lebron has beat up on your franchise so much in the past 10 years its ok to be a hater.

[asujbl]

This thread went full Basketball boards. Never go full Basketball boards.

[6celtics33]

Lebron fans look at it as one of two ways.

1. Lebron is really 2-0 in the Finals because the ones he "lost" were because lebron's teams were injured/not good.
OR
2. Lebron is 6-0 in the Finals because just getting there with the teams he did is enough for a ring in their mind/the team he was playing against was a better team so he's not expected to win it.

Either one of those thoughts by lebron fans don't compare very well to realists who just watch him and critique him like every other NBA great and say he is 2-4 in the Finals, which is an unbiased, non-hater, fact.

You are correct and so now they will gang up on you and tell you how dumb you are.

[6celtics33]

It's a generational thing I think. They probably think hey he tried his best, he got them there as though that's the goal. Let's everyone get a participation trophy and go have ice cream. It's just basketball. That's a quote from Lebron himself, it's just basketball guys.

[pingbling23]

You are correct and so now they will gang up on you and tell you how dumb you are.

i know youre somewhat new around here so i wouldnt expect you to know the only ganging up and mob mentality has been the lebron haters over the last several years. its gotten much better since he started winning so much and getting to the finals every year.

[6celtics33]

I think we have a different definition of "winning so much" that's all

[pingbling23]

This thread went full Basketball boards. Never go full Basketball boards.

youre right, its probably best for me to stop posting in this thread. with gems of insight like post 185, its hard not to get into a deep debate. have fun guys, this thread has run its course for me.

[6celtics33]

youre right, its probably best for me to stop posting in this thread. with gems of insight like post 185, its hard not to get into a deep debate. have fun guys, this thread has run its course for me.

you are the most passive aggressive little girl i've ever seen in my life, post 185, lol... Wow, geeze

[6celtics33]

Gems of insight.... I have just as much right to speak my mind here as you no matter how long you have been here. You told me earlier I was so offensive and antagonistic yet you attack everyone that thinks different from you. You think if you allude to something like giving my post # that somehow that doesn't provoke me. You gotta be what? 22?

[6celtics33]

Gems of insight, post 185.... If you want me to post the press conference video of your boy saying it right after LOSING in the finals I will. I didn't make it up.

[drobfan8]

i know youre somewhat new around here so i wouldnt expect you to know the only ganging up and mob mentality has been the lebron haters over the last several years. its gotten much better since he started winning so much and getting to the finals every year.

Winning so much?

I guess hanging Conference banners is pretty cool.

Unfortunately, LeBron's legacy will end up being that he made it to the Finals so much due to being in a weaker conference for most of his career.

I would have loved to see him try and come out of the West the past 6 years instead of having the Pacers as the hardest team he had to face.

Even this year, if the Cavs are in the West with their current record (3rd) could we guarantee the Cavs make the Finals? I seriously doubt they would get through both the Spurs and GS. Even OKC and a healthy Clips would give them trouble.

But.... We can guarantee another armchair ride through the East, who will they have to face? Bulls, Boston or Toronto? Wow.

[6celtics33]

Drob.... You're making too much sense, it's not allowed

[drobfan8]

Drob.... You're making too much sense, it's not allowed

My sincere apologies.

I know how not hearing what you want to hear can hurt people.

Words hurt guys.

[bdoody42]

Same People talking same crap. Lebron had either done nothing right or nothing wrong. Very rare to see someone in the middle.

[vinsanity15]

Same People talking same crap. Lebron had either done nothing right or nothing wrong. Very rare to see someone in the middle.

Agree with this. Lebron has a ton of people who love him probably more than any other player. But he for sure has the most haters out of anyone who is playing in the NBA today and it not even close. Very rare that someone is in he middle it either you love born or hate him.

[rats60]

Same People talking same crap. Lebron had either done nothing right or nothing wrong. Very rare to see someone in the middle.

Congratulations, you just made the worst post in this thread. How is it that posting any flaw in LeBron's resume means you think he's never done anything right? Survey those that think he's third on this list. I bet most if not all consider him a top 10 player all time. How is that not in the middle? The real haters in this thread are the LeBron fan boys who hate and disrespect all the old greats who have better resumes than LeBron, but are dismissed because they aren't from this generation. Even Kobe and Duncan aren't worth discussing. I have a huge LeBron pc, but you just called me a LeBron hater.