Does anyone on here own their own card shop?

[deftones04]

Seriously thinking of opening one of my own up in the upcoming year or so.. Had a few questions such as costs go

[tkraft24]

Just blast some White Pony and the rest will take care of itself

[xtremecardage13]

Don't start a business in a dying industry.

[rainbowkiller]

Bad investment, only do it for fun.

[petillo64]

Don't start a business in a dying industry.

Damn... I thought my idea of opening a store where people can record their favorite individual songs onto the same cassette tape was brilliant.

[petillo64]

I don't know OP. my uncle opened a card store in Great Falls, Montana in the mid-late 90's when the hobby was going nuts with the roiders. He ended up getting high on his own supply quite a bit and eventually had to shut it down. It was attached to the building where he had his dental lab so the overhead was pretty low, and he still wasn't turning profits enough to have it make business sense (he still has a 3-row of rare jeter cards and 90's inserts that he won't let me even sniff at... Jerk)

Here in the Bay Area, there is a chain of 3 stores spread over the peninsula, under the same ownership. They seem to be doing okay... The mom and pop card shops are few and far between, and have great ownership, but in talking with owners, it definitely is an effort of love as they fight to keep the doors open. Good luck if you do it!

[cbuskstwar]

Just open up an Ebay store, much cheaper and more traffic than a B&M.

[sthoemke]

Card store here was packed with customers today. It is Saturday, rainy, and they have an active MTG game space. They were doing great business.

[trixstar]

Card store here was packed with customers today. It is Saturday, rainy, and they have an active MTG game space. They were doing great business.

They should be called MTG shops. That's basically what keeps them open these days.

[Bronco Buster]

Any card stores still left are most likely run by people who don't rely on it as their primary source of income and have the cash flow saved up to keep it afloat. And even at that I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of their sales come through some type of online store.

It's not something for your average joe who is sitting on their couch one day and thinks to themselves " I should open a card shop". You could buy a brand new house and car cheaper than it would cost you in start up money just to get the doors open.

[Cavaliercards]

Any card stores still left are most likely run by people who don't rely on it as their primary source of income and have the cash flow saved up to keep it afloat. And even at that I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of their sales come through some type of online store.

It's not something for your average joe who is sitting on their couch one day and thinks to themselves " I should open a card shop". You could buy a brand new house and car cheaper than it would cost you in start up money just to get the doors open.

Vast majority of our business is conducted online and we are not shy about telling people that when they come in as in the modern market a traditional shop setting will not cut it.

[kyle1707]

Any card stores still left are most likely run by people who don't rely on it as their primary source of income and have the cash flow saved up to keep it afloat. And even at that I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of their sales come through some type of online store.

It's not something for your average joe who is sitting on their couch one day and thinks to themselves " I should open a card shop". You could buy a brand new house and car cheaper than it would cost you in start up money just to get the doors open.


I have owned a store for 5 years....

I would recommend opening an eBay store also....

Competing with EBay Blowout Dave and Adams online breakers is nearly impossible...

I am doing fine ... But I will eventually move my shop 100% online.....

I have grown a huge inventory over last 5 years...

The main reason I have not moved online is because to get direct pricing you have to own a store...

Heritage was 52 dollars a box ..
flawless soccer pre buy 1225
topps jumbos 80 a box

just stuff like that is tough to give up.. I could give other great pricing examples... over and over

The other thing that a lot of people don't understand.. or I guess think about is the cost...

say you want to buy a case of every basketball baseball and football products the first year...

ok that will be about 100,000 dollars.....

Hobby is expensive...

Back in the 80's 90's all the shops opened up you just need 1-2 grand to fill a shop.... you can barley buy 2 cases of cards for that...

I live in a town of 250,000 people

there is 3 shops.... says a lot..

Its fun and I have good months .... But online is way go...

I will eventually move my 100,000 cards that direction...

Just don't want to lose my direct pricing at this moment....

[soxrulecubs]

It depends on if you already have clients or not!! You'll die otherwise trust me!! It's not even worth it to sell online imo either!! If you open an eBay store and sell sealed products, be prepared for returns out the schwazoo, not to mention having to sell items at little profit/margin!! Also, keep in mind, a lot of people have the mentality that they are getting the rest of the crap boxes of a case if they buy single boxes, so they aren't as easy to sell as you might think!! It really all depends on WHY DO YOU WANT TO OPEN THIS TYPE OF BUSINESS?!?! I think that one of the only ways is if you're already loaded or you're retired and it isn't your breadwinner!! Oh and that other guy is totally right too, if you don't sell tcg stuff like magic, You'll be dead in the water!! Good luck!!

P.S. I cannot stress, when you get enough traffic/regulars, to have a bid board in the store as many people are sick and tired of or just hate eBay!! And if you are rich enough, get signers in the store, the more famous or local team guys, the better - I used to do 40-50% of sales just on signing nights!!

[jmweb]

Who among us hasn't had that dream? There is a lot of good advise above because opening a new store, any type, is risky.. but don't let that discourage you.

If i were to open a store today, I would look for an existing store that's been around at least 10 years and see if the owner is willing to sell. I think buying an existing entity lowers the risk tremendously. It would likely cost more to buy an existing vs opening new but it would be the smart way to go.

[bethanyb1201]

Hey man follow your heart! I did it for a few years. I lost my behind but I enjoyed every minute. Shop name was "cardsrfun" and they ars ☺

[Big35Hurt]

Lots of good advice here. I was in business for myself, and it's tough. You never know how things are going to go when you start from scratch.

A couple of things I learned that may or may not help you:

1) If you work for someone and have healthcare through your employer, research the costs for getting your own healthcare and any prescriptions you currently use. It can be very expensive for this alone.

2) If you are in a relationship, warn your significant other that your workday may not end at 5pm like most people. You may end up having to work evenings and many weekends to make it work. On top of that, your disposable income won't be what it has been before. You have to earn every dollar you make.

3) Research and negotiate any contracts such as leases, security systems, etc. See if you can have clauses put in that give you an out if you find things aren't working out in your favor. We had a 6-month lease to start because the building owner was desperate to get someone in there, so see if you can find something like that. We still had to pay a stiff early termination fee for the security system and for the merchant services account, so looking for shorter terms is the key.

[asujbl]

The better question is anyone that does own an LCS, even if it's actually surviving, what is your "salary" from said venture

We all agree it would be fun... But is it more fun to make more money and just fund your hobby using that?

[Lonewolf]

I worked at a sports card shop for about a decade starting in the early 90's. That shop (which was quite large) folded up around 2006. Brick and mortar places are just about all but gone for a reason. Unless you have tons of money to burn, and a diverse product line (Sportscards plus Memorabilia, Magic/Yugi-Oh cards) and kids/tournament folks coming in regularly, it will be a tough business.

But hey, we all have dreams...so do it if you can afford the risk :)!

[broadway6]

Any business you open will be hard work and normally will take years until you start to see a big profit due to expenses. It doesn't matter if you are opening a card shop or IT company. Put in the hours, treat people right, and think outside the box and anything is possible.

[base set]

this is a semi-regular thread here. I'm drawing a blank on good keywords to search to find just those, but there have been lots.

I travel a lot and visit as many LCS as I can find time for, though my work always comes first. As mentioned, self-employment is a different world than how the vast majority of folks live their lives. Time IS Money.

I think the way to look at this question is that people still want the social experience, not just the lowest possible price sitting at home having boxes delivered from the Internet. A fridge full of cheap sodas and some table space to rip a box and play Magic: The Gathering (etc.) tournaments and room for a line of people to meet/greet/sign the local Collegiate athlete star can still make a viable business. A ramshackle pile of 5000 count boxes and 15 year old unwanted wax, not so much.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Does an eBay store count? :coffee:

[Edgespear23]

this is a semi-regular thread here. I'm drawing a blank on good keywords to search to find just those, but there have been lots.

I travel a lot and visit as many LCS as I can find time for, though my work always comes first. As mentioned, self-employment is a different world than how the vast majority of folks live their lives. Time IS Money.

I think the way to look at this question is that people still want the social experience, not just the lowest possible price sitting at home having boxes delivered from the Internet. A fridge full of cheap sodas and some table space to rip a box and play Magic: The Gathering (etc.) tournaments and room for a line of people to meet/greet/sign the local Collegiate athlete star can still make a viable business. A ramshackle pile of 5000 count boxes and 15 year old unwanted wax, not so much.


Exactly just coming in and looking at cards in a glass case or rummaging through boxes doesn't have the same draw for most people anymore. I've always wondered what keeps someone from opening a shop and offering a full Sports experience. Hosting Magic can be great but what about hosting fantasy sports leagues or have a room to rent so folks can have their drafts. I've always wondered what keeps places from hosting small sports related video game tournaments or leagues as well. Hosting a family oriented events like sports or other trivia at for different days would bring some people in. Have some small prizes for winners would be awesome. Granted those things would take time to organize and plan plus money for the tech but could be a great way to diversify and bring people into a place.

Of course I would take a shop in Nashville that hosts trade nights or in person breaks and that seems to be asking too much so....

[hermanotarjeta]

You would need to work full time yourself and make $200 profit a day, 6 days a week just to make $45,000 a year. Hire someone to work and you would need to clear $400 profit a day. Not easy for just walk in traffic. Adding another $50 a day in eBay profits would eat away at your off hours time, plus you need the inventory to sell. You also need to get lucky and order/invest in the right products and the timing of having products containing the hottest players on the market is important. If the sports league lack a hobby darling, you may be in trouble for a while. Plus you need to start off with deep pockets so you can sit on unmovable inventory for possibly up to 7 years. It also helps if your local teams are actually good. You may be in big trouble in certain areas of the country that have perennial losers with no hope.

Not easy.

[HadWayTooMuch]

I've said this many times. I closed my shop in September but loved every minute of the year and a half I was open.

Since I have a well paying full time job, the monetary loss doesn't bother me that much. I am going to be paying off my losses for another year or so, but again, to me, the money wasn't a big deal.

But for a year and a half, I didn't see a penny profit. Imagine if I had to pay bills from my store?

It's just very tough to get a consistent customer base. I had a dozen or two that I could count on, but other than that, it was just tough to get people through the door.

I tried a lot of things including case breaks and fantasy games, but again, didn't have enough people participating.

With a cheap rent and time on your hands, nothing wrong with opening an LCS. But as a full time job to pay your bills, it's a fool's game. Hell, if you don't have $50K to start the store, you'll probably never make money as the key ways to make money are buying collections and having a wide arrange of inventory. I opened with probably a $20K investment and had a probably 70 or 80 different boxes for sale and packs for sale. It really didn't help draw in business. The same people were buying. Nobody came from a distance to buy random boxes.

Still a great time and I'm glad I did it, but financially, a nightmare.

[free2131]

Pretty soon asking if you should open an LCS will get you the same looks as asking if you should open a horse-drawn carriage repair shop.

[SaveMeTheGum]

I've said this many times. I closed my shop in September but loved every minute of the year and a half I was open.

Since I have a well paying full time job, the monetary loss doesn't bother me that much. I am going to be paying off my losses for another year or so, but again, to me, the money wasn't a big deal.

But for a year and a half, I didn't see a penny profit. Imagine if I had to pay bills from my store?

It's just very tough to get a consistent customer base. I had a dozen or two that I could count on, but other than that, it was just tough to get people through the door.

I tried a lot of things including case breaks and fantasy games, but again, didn't have enough people participating.

With a cheap rent and time on your hands, nothing wrong with opening an LCS. But as a full time job to pay your bills, it's a fool's game. Hell, if you don't have $50K to start the store, you'll probably never make money as the key ways to make money are buying collections and having a wide arrange of inventory. I opened with probably a $20K investment and had a probably 70 or 80 different boxes for sale and packs for sale. It really didn't help draw in business. The same people were buying. Nobody came from a distance to buy random boxes.

Still a great time and I'm glad I did it, but financially, a nightmare.

This is right on. When I was a kid, my best friend's dad owned a couple LCS. You have to constantly hold so much inventory, with so little turnover. The only way to make money is to buy in huge bulk. Until one day you are the one selling everything off at 50% of value.

You definitely have to be in it for the love of the hobby. I get my fix through here and eBay. I make a little extra money here and there, but really I just like talking with other collectors. Relive my youth and all that.

[mfw13]

Pretty soon asking if you should open an LCS will get you the same looks as asking if you should open a horse-drawn carriage repair shop.

All too true. At this point in time, unfortunately, there seems to be no logical reason for bricks and mortar LCS's to exist. They can't compete with EBay on the breadth of inventory or on price, and they still have to deal with overhead costs. Unless you have a method for generating high levels of foot traffic (being in a good spot in a mall, being near a school/library, having relationships with local athletes who you can get into the store to sign), running on online store out of your residence is the way to go.

The bottom line is that there simply isn't enough demand to soak up all the supply in the market, both of past releases, and of present and future ones.

Across the five major sports there are 100+ releases a year now...football and hockey are already dying from oversupply, and basketball is only being kept afloat by the strong international market.

[hermanotarjeta]

I've said this many times. I closed my shop in September but loved every minute of the year and a half I was open.

Since I have a well paying full time job, the monetary loss doesn't bother me that much. I am going to be paying off my losses for another year or so, but again, to me, the money wasn't a big deal.

But for a year and a half, I didn't see a penny profit. Imagine if I had to pay bills from my store?

It's just very tough to get a consistent customer base. I had a dozen or two that I could count on, but other than that, it was just tough to get people through the door.

I tried a lot of things including case breaks and fantasy games, but again, didn't have enough people participating.

With a cheap rent and time on your hands, nothing wrong with opening an LCS. But as a full time job to pay your bills, it's a fool's game. Hell, if you don't have $50K to start the store, you'll probably never make money as the key ways to make money are buying collections and having a wide arrange of inventory. I opened with probably a $20K investment and had a probably 70 or 80 different boxes for sale and packs for sale. It really didn't help draw in business. The same people were buying. Nobody came from a distance to buy random boxes.

Still a great time and I'm glad I did it, but financially, a nightmare.

Imagine with those 80 boxes, even if you sold them each at $20 profit per, you would make $1600. To survive, you would need to sell 8 boxes a day! That can be challenging.

[biletnikoff]

Toy stores sell cards. It's too niche a hobby.
I moved to hick town in salem oregon and there does happen to be one retired guy with a small 4 wall shop..like someone already said,not his major,primary income..who knows how long he'll be around..he's a little hard of hearing.
Lots of interesting cards though. I paid 2.50 for some card plastic covers as a courtesy for walking in the first time.
4 or 5 people walked in during the time I was there. It's oregon so 5 hey made a big deal out of anything M. Mariotta.

[biletnikoff]

People like DeansCards and ComC seem to have cornered the market

[fsunole]

******************

[Pearce77]

I just read that my former LCS in Milwaukee is changing ownership. Many here will know the store, Price's in West Allis. From their Facebook:

Thanks for 25 plus years! I have sold the store. Many of you will know the new owners. They have plans to add online breaks, instore break,tvs etc. They are great guys, the store is in good hands!!!
We will be Open tomorrow from 11-1. The store will reopen wed. at noon with new ownership.
Again, I would like to truely say THANK YOU its been a blast!!!

[HadWayTooMuch]

I just read that my former LCS in Milwaukee is changing ownership. Many here will know the store, Price's in West Allis. From their Facebook:

Thanks for 25 plus years! I have sold the store. Many of you will know the new owners. They have plans to add online breaks, instore break,tvs etc. They are great guys, the store is in good hands!!!
We will be Open tomorrow from 11-1. The store will reopen wed. at noon with new ownership.
Again, I would like to truely say THANK YOU its been a blast!!!

Good for him for finding a buyer. Tough thing to do. When I was thinking of closing, I had 2 people discuss buying the business. It was ridiculous. The one guy showed interest, brought a guy with him to check it out and then I never heard from him again. That was before talking numbers. Maybe the place sucked, but I don't think so!

[joey_peapod]

I think the biggest problem is people don't think outside the box. I'm surprised all the LCS around me are still open to be honest. You walk in and it's the same old boxes with the same crap sitting in the cases.

I believe a B&M could work if done correctly. Like people have said make a large area for Magic, Ect that kids can come and hang out. Depending on amount to invest make it almost like a lounge but for cards. Online is obviously a must as well but I think if done re invented the card shop experience it could work.

[beavermoose]

Toy stores sell cards. It's too niche a hobby.
I moved to hick town in salem oregon and there does happen to be one retired guy with a small 4 wall shop..like someone already said,not his major,primary income..who knows how long he'll be around..he's a little hard of hearing.
Lots of interesting cards though. I paid 2.50 for some card plastic covers as a courtesy for walking in the first time.
4 or 5 people walked in during the time I was there. It's oregon so 5 hey made a big deal out of anything M. Mariotta.


Really?

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/979736-lcs-still-going-strong.html

Just last week.

You think Salem is a hick town? At worst it's a completely forgettable 250K small city, at best it has the history and resources one would assume of a small state capital.

[Neuhart Cards]

We have been opened for more than 5 years. We are extremely profitable, and would be more than willing to talk and answer any questions you may have. We have quarterly trade nights, buy tons of collections, and do not sell gaming cards. The key is to keep your expenses manageable, have cash on hand to buy collections, and have a decent size social media presence.

[biletnikoff]

Really?

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/979736-lcs-still-going-strong.html

Just last week.

You think Salem is a hick town? At worst it's a completely forgettable 250K small city, at best it has the history and resources one would assume of a small state capital.

Look,dude, I came from a major inner city in southern California.
There's nothing but fat white people in Salem and you have to drive 6 miles to get anything as opposed to going down the block to get anything. You can't tell the difference between a Tuesday and Saturday night in downtown Salem and business I've walked into have half wit employees that don't know how to do customer service and wouldn't last 2 days in California jobs.
It does nothing but rain all the time.
....lol back to card shops.

[fenwaykid]

You can buy Boxes of cards from Amazon and if you live near a hub can get same day delivery....that's the future, product when you want it delivered right to your door.

[biletnikoff]

You can buy Boxes of cards from Amazon and if you live near a hub can get same day delivery....that's the future, product when you want it delivered right to your door.

this assumes not getting ripped off etc.

no one to confront directly

[sabrgeek]

One other advantage is you can buy walk ins from people and while 95 percent of what you will see or get calls about is well lets say 1988 Donruss, the other 5 percent can make you a ton of money.

And we all want THAT buy

Rich

[whitesoxfan3579]

Really?

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/979736-lcs-still-going-strong.html

Just last week.

You think Salem is a hick town? At worst it's a completely forgettable 250K small city, at best it has the history and resources one would assume of a small state capital.

That is a great article:cool:

[houstonrules51]

I watched some of the discussion about LCS's during the industry summit and they (card manufacturers) were saying that LCS's are a foundation for the hobby and I tend to agree. The profitable ones are the creative one's and they all seem to rely on a couple whales. I still am in shock when I see a couple of guys go in there and just rip box after box and then settle up when they are done - like $3000 on boxes in an hour or so span. Anyway, I don't know how much I would spend on this hobby if not for the LCS and the community it supports.

To that end, I do think it is fascinating that there are little pockets of collectors spread around and the only time we ever meet another is through the LCS or card shows. Can you imagine if the only fellow collectors you met were at card shows or in the Card section at Target.:eek:

[kyle1707]

You can buy Boxes of cards from Amazon and if you live near a hub can get same day delivery....that's the future, product when you want it delivered right to your door.

Agree ...

As stated I am a store owner... But I use Ebay and blowout all the time...

The main issue is Panini UD and Topps don't care about shops...

With Group breakers and online dist... They sell so much they don't care...

This will slowly be the end of the card shop...

If they cared they could give us the product a week early or make special card shop exclusive boxes with extra hits or something along that line....

Most of this was tried in the past... But was given up on very quickly....

In 5 years I have never had 1 company reach out to me in any way....

The future of the hobby is strong... But not with card shops...

[smalltown]

A fridge full of cheap sodas and some table space to rip a box and play Magic: The Gathering.

The LCS near me - which I don't frequent cause the only sport he really carries is hockey - make a substantial amount of money 3 times a week holding tournaments. He sells cans of pop for $1.5 and slices of pizza for $3 and coffee for $1. He told me he makes between $200-300 profit on food on most tournament nights.

Basically if you're going to open a "collectables" store you have to be open to any revenue stream you can think of.

[HadWayTooMuch]

I watched some of the discussion about LCS's during the industry summit and they (card manufacturers) were saying that LCS's are a foundation for the hobby and I tend to agree. The profitable ones are the creative one's and they all seem to rely on a couple whales. I still am in shock when I see a couple of guys go in there and just rip box after box and then settle up when they are done - like $3000 on boxes in an hour or so span. Anyway, I don't know how much I would spend on this hobby if not for the LCS and the community it supports.

To that end, I do think it is fascinating that there are little pockets of collectors spread around and the only time we ever meet another is through the LCS or card shows. Can you imagine if the only fellow collectors you met were at card shows or in the Card section at Target.:eek:

It's very true. The most successful shops have those couple of whales that spend $1000s whenever new product comes out.

I had a nice little customer base, but no true whales. I had a couple of guys that would semi-consistently spend $200-$500, which means I would make $20-$50 off of them.

[biletnikoff]

gotta make it a candy or cookie store and keep the food and heat and cold away from the cards lol

a sports bakery that does sports themed cakes and cookies

[hermanotarjeta]

We have been opened for more than 5 years. We are extremely profitable, and would be more than willing to talk and answer any questions you may have. We have quarterly trade nights, buy tons of collections, and do not sell gaming cards. The key is to keep your expenses manageable, have cash on hand to buy collections, and have a decent size social media presence.

When you say extremely profitable, do you mean over $100k in profit a year?

[biletnikoff]

When you say extremely profitable, do you mean over $100k in profit a year?

dy16JuTQI8Q

[soxrulecubs]

Wow, I am amazed any card shop is still around in 2016!! Kudos to them for being a success in an otherwise online market dominated segment!! My main issue is basically all of this stuff is way overpriced, so how do you keep people coming back after they spend a shitload of $$$ and then come away with nothing in return? its almost becoming like a mlm thing at this point!! Manufacturer dumps it on distributor, distributor dumps it on shop, shop dumps it on people?!?! As long as the manufacturer gets rid of it all, it's like a race to get the crap out before people realize what their holding!! It's just not a very wise business model, unless you're a manufacturer!! Think about it for a second, people are not as freely spending money like idiots like they once were!! After the bottom fell out, people started to realize they had to tighten up or suffer the consequences of not having back up or insurance money if they needed it!! Why would buying anything from this industry help that situation out?!?! It's too expensive and when I recall, it was ridiculous how much more traffic I had coming in in say 2005, compared to my last few months, there were literally days I thought there was a storm or tornado outside lol like 1-3 people from 10 am til 9 pm!! I just think this industry is like pro wrestling, it had its time, now it's done and maybe there will be a resurgence one day, but not ever gonna be like it was unfortunately!! People are on to the fact you just lose money when you buy this stuff, you can see it when they open stuff in the store!! You can't keep pulling the wool over people's eyes, eventually everyone starts talking and I guarantee you, people bad mouth this stuff to others and they keep the interest down as well!! Lastly, I gotta wonder how many people involved in this hobby are on the brink of bankruptcy??? I bet a ton of them have huge credit card debts, because if your spending cash on this stuff, you gotta be either a counterfeiter or rich!! Or a drug dealer!! Lol

[pdxprospect]

OP, hopefully you have a much stronger self control than I...I would want to bust open everything...

[Neuhart Cards]

When you say extremely profitable, do you mean over $100k in profit a year?

We run on a profit margin on approximately 34 to 35 % and will do close to 500k in sales this year. However, our 1st year, we did 60k in sales..It is like any business. You need to have the resources to manage the 1st couple of years.

[poppincurbs]

Only 1 LCS in my town of 300k people, and it's been around for 20+ years. I think their key to success is they don't strictly sell cards, they do used books/cds/dvds/games, Comics/Toys, etc. It's also in a lousy part of town so rent can't be that high...