Blowout Cards Forums - BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

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[QUOTE=auburn35;15045340]I don't see any evidence of stricter grading; still seems to be based on the person submitting the cards and/or the special process used for specific grading batches.

For reference, here's one of Joe's recent submissions.
All 38 cards graded on the 26th of August: 2 BGS 10 Black Labels, 33 BGS 10's and 3 BGS 9.5's

[B]wjc75056 - Joe Clemons[/B]

11586282 2019 Bowman Prospects Wander Franco BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/WANDER-FRANCO-2019-Bowman-Prospects-Rookie-Card-RC-BP100-BGS-10-PRISTINE/123890275771?hash=item1cd86f95bb:g:oLgAAOSwiSZdZxny[/url]
11586285 2018 Leaf Metal Draft Silver Wave Jo Adell BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/JO-ADELL-2018-Leaf-Metal-Draft-Silver-Wave-Auto-Rookie-Card-RC-BGS-10-PRISTINE/123890328087?hash=item1cd8706217:g:LakAAOSwA-BdZy8P[/url]
11586286 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10 Black Label
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MIKE-SOROKA-2018-Topps-Chrome-Update-Rookie-HMT16-BGS-10-PRISTINE-Black-Label-/123890300407?hash=item1cd86ff5f7%3Ag%3AAA8AAOSw%7EfpdZyYq&nma=true&si=sA%252BsS13LDaWDseptBIP5HmAW22U%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url]
11586293 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Gleyber Torres BGS 10
11586295 2019 Bowman Prospects Wander Franco BGS 9.5
11586296 2019 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Autographs Refractors Julio Pablo Martinez BGS 10
11586297 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10 Black Label
11586299 2019 Bowman Chrome Prospects Atomic Refractors Nico Hoerner BGS 10
11586301 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10
11586302 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10
11586303 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Michael Soroka BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MIKE-SOROKA-2018-Topps-Chrome-Update-Pink-Refractor-Rookie-HMT16-BGS-10-PRISTINE-/392403677004?hash=item5b5d14ef4c%3Ag%3A0rMAAOSwnfFdZyaq&nma=true&si=sA%252BsS13LDaWDseptBIP5HmAW22U%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url]
11586304 2019 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Rookie of the Year Favorites Green Refractors Jonathan Loaisiga BGS 10
11586305 2019 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Rookie of the Year Favorites Purple Refractors Jonathan Loaisiga BGS 10
11586317 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Jo Adell BGS 10
11586319 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10
11586320 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10
11586321 2019 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Rookie of the Year Favorites Green Refractors Willians Astudillo BGS 10
11586323 2018 Topps Chrome Update Austin Meadows RC BGS 10
11586324 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors David Bote BGS 10
11586334 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MIKE-SOROKA-2018-Topps-Chrome-Update-Rookie-Card-RC-HMT16-BGS-10-PRISTINE-/123890298210?hash=item1cd86fed62%3Ag%3A-R0AAOSwBVpdZyWv&nma=true&si=sA%252BsS13LDaWDseptBIP5HmAW22U%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url]
11586335 2018 Topps Chrome Update Michael Soroka RC BGS 10
11586336 2019 Bowman Chrome Mega Box Prospects Purple Refractors Mitch Keller BGS 10
11586337 2018 Bowman's Best Power Producers Refractors Nolan Gorman BGS 10
11586338 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC BGS 10
11586343 2018 Topps Chrome Update Austin Meadows RC BGS 10
11586344 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Shane Bieber BGS 10
11586358 2018 Bowman's Best Atomic Refractors Aaron Judge BGS 10
11586359 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Harrison Bader BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRISON-BADER-2018-Bowmans-Best-Refractor-Rookie-Card-RC-21-BGS-10-PRISTINE/392404489507?hash=item5b5d215523:g:hesAAOSwn4FdZ~Rm[/url]
11586361 2018 Bowman's Best Power Producers Refractors Mike Trout BGS 10
11586362 2018 Topps Chrome Update Austin Meadows RC BGS 10
11586370 2018 Topps Chrome Update Austin Meadows RC BGS 10
11586371 2018 Bowman's Best Miguel Andujar RC BGS 10
11586374 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Aaron Judge BGS 10
11586401 2018-19 Panini Contenders Draft Picks Michael Porter Jr. AU RC BGS 9.5
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-PORTER-JR-2018-19-Contenders-Draft-Auto-Rookie-RC-BGS-9-5-GEM-MINT-True/392415690156?hash=item5b5dcc3dac:g:MZIAAOSwkoddc7xi[/url]
11586404 2018 Bowman High Tek Prospect Autographs Luis Robert BGS 9.5
11586426 2019 Topps Pro Debut Image Variations Wander Franco BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/WANDER-FRANCO-2019-Topps-Pro-Debut-Image-Variation-Rookie-Card-BGS-10-PRISTINE/123890278143?hash=item1cd86f9eff:g:Fq0AAOSw7IpdZxs~[/url]
11586427 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC BGS 10
11586430 2018 Topps Chrome Refractors Shohei Ohtani BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHOHEI-OHTANI-2018-Topps-Chrome-Refractor-Rookie-Card-RC-150-BGS-10-PRISTINE/392403700287?hash=item5b5d154a3f:g:hFcAAOSwpXFdZypi[/url]

No idea who this person (meatloafsmemorabilia) is but this is a nearly identical pattern of grouped BGS 10 cards, graded just before Joe's cards on August 26th: 2 BGS 10 Black Labels and 22 BGS 10's. The two orders (maybe a group sub?) are only separated by a few cards, not yet graded (presumably another persons order).

[B]meatloafsmemorabilia[/B]
11586232 2013 Topps Chrome Pink Refractors Tom Brady BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tom-Brady-2013-Topps-Chrome-50-PINK-REFRACTOR-399-BGS-10-Pristine-Pop-1/372764964953?hash=item56ca85f859:g:oHMAAOSwjuNddpLM[/url]
11586233 2014 Topps Chrome Mini Pulsar Refractors Tom Brady BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tom-Brady-2014-Topps-Chrome-Mini-62-PULSAR-REFRACTOR-102-BGS-10-Pristine-Pop-1/372764966364?hash=item56ca85fddc:g:1sQAAOSwIIZddpNM[/url]
11586234 2019 Score Dwayne Haskins RC BGS 10
11586238 2019 Bowman Chrome Bowman Sterling Continuity Wander Franco BGS 10
11586240 2017 Bowman Chrome Cody Bellinger RC BGS 10
11586241 2017 Bowman Chrome Cody Bellinger RC BGS 10
11586242 2018 Topps High Tek Orbit Diffractors Black Victor Robles BGS 10
11586243 2017 Bowman Topps Holiday Ugly Sweater Green Bo Bichette BGS 10
11586245 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC BGS 10
11586246 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC BGS 10
11586247 2018 Topps Allen and Ginter Ronald Acuna Jr. RC BGS 10
11586249 2018 Topps Update Ronald Acuna Jr. RC BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ronald-Acuna-Jr-2018-Topps-Update-US250-Braves-ROOKIE-BGS-10-PRISTINE-/352779049911?hash=item5223451bb7%3Ag%3AZo0AAOSwdXpdcT8a&nma=true&si=sA%252BsS13LDaWDseptBIP5HmAW22U%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url]
11586251 2017 Topps Allen and Ginter Relics Aaron Judge BGS 10
11586252 2019 Bowman Chrome Prospects Aqua Refractors Luis Robert BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Luis-Robert-2019-Bowman-Chrome-AQUA-REFRACTOR-125-BGS-10-Pristine-POP-1/372765077476?hash=item56ca87afe4:g:gScAAOSwH7VddrTS[/url]
11586254 2018 Topps Chrome Update Gleyber Torres BGS 10
11586255 2018 Topps Chrome UFC Black Refractors Julianna Pena BGS 10
11586257 2018 Topps Chrome UFC Blue Wave Arianny Celeste BGS 10
11586258 2018 Topps Chrome UFC Refractors Sean O'Malley BGS 10
11586259 2018 Topps Chrome UFC Black Refractors Karolina Kowalkiewicz BGS 10
11586263 2018 Topps Chrome UFC Autographs Amanda Nunes BGS 10
11586264 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC BGS 10
11586265 2017 Bowman Chrome Prospects Refractors Gleyber Torres BGS 10
11586268 2019 Score Kyler Murray RC Black Label BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kyler-Murray-2019-Score-Football-384-Rookie-BGS-10-Pristine-BLACK-LABEL-Pop-1/372764996769?hash=item56ca8674a1:g:DdgAAOSwT3Vddptv[/url]
11586270 2018 Topps Chrome UFC X-Fractors Holly Holm Black Label BGS 10
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Holly-Holm-2018-Topps-Chrome-UFC-X-Fractor-BGS-10-POP-1-Pristine-BLACK-LABEL/372764951789?hash=item56ca85c4ed:g:iAwAAOSwFDdddo2t[/url][/QUOTE]
Wow. So many Pristines and Black Labels being handed out. Kind of surprised at those recent numbers.

I've always been against the idea of paying the 10 premium over a 9.5, but now I laugh a little inside at the people who comp 10 prices to get me to budge on my other cards.

CLCT continues to climb while Beckett seemingly falls. For two years Beckett has been a hot mess with changing their turn times and pricing, angering customers left and right. All of this funny business seems to finally be catching up to them.

[QUOTE=rutgersjpm;15048309][B]CLCT continues to climb[/B][/QUOTE]

That's a generous statement.

[QUOTE=mattglet;15048361]That's a generous statement.[/QUOTE]He may be referring to both the stock price and company profitability.

[QUOTE=pip;15048459]He may be referring to both the stock price and company profitability.[/QUOTE]

Probably, but then it's apples to oranges. Beckett isn't publicly traded.

[QUOTE=Duvalier;15048303]Wow. So many Pristines and Black Labels being handed out. Kind of surprised at those recent numbers.[/QUOTE]

I'm very surprised to see that. I really thought BGS was ending the Joe/Leaf/10 thing quietly, which explained the severe drop in them over the past couple months.

[QUOTE=kyaa;15049387]I'm very surprised to see that. I really thought BGS was ending the Joe/Leaf/10 thing quietly, which explained the severe drop in them over the past couple months.[/QUOTE]It'll never end for ol' Eagle Eye.

[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/images/8df66becaf41762b8550a2af5c2a192e/tenor.gif[/IMG]

I have been looking for some news coming out of the Beckett Industry Summit and this Beckett podcast had a guest (an authorized PSA dealer) briefly talk about the current state of grading. Starts around the 4
minute mark.
[url]https://soundcloud.com/fatpackspodcast/ep-342-2019-industry-summit-day-2[/url]

Claims even with all the bad press, he's seen even more business with customers looking to grade and authenticate items.

[QUOTE=mattglet;15048361]That's a generous statement.[/QUOTE]

How'd it do today?

:)!

[QUOTE=auburn35;15050590]I have been looking for some news coming out of the Beckett Industry Summit and this Beckett podcast had a guest (an authorized PSA dealer) briefly talk about the current state of grading. Starts around the 4
minute mark.
[url]https://soundcloud.com/fatpackspodcast/ep-342-2019-industry-summit-day-2[/url]

Claims even with all the bad press, he's seen even more business with customers looking to grade and authenticate items.[/QUOTE]

Yay! Steve Garvey!

[QUOTE=mc1;15050766]Thats because more people are now aware that doctored cards can be authenticated and graded. Snip here, snip there, press here and over there. 7s and 8s turning into 10s![/QUOTE]

^^^^^This

BGS Black Labels, Joe Clemons (eBay ID: wjc75056), and Illegitimate Grading

[QUOTE=rutgersjpm;15050641]How'd it do today?

:)![/QUOTE]

Out of context, great! :)!

[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;15050812]Sure...but how are they proving that submissions are up??

Given the state of grading and the disreputable reputation grading companies possess, why should honest people believe them?[/QUOTE]

Not sure, just thought that was an interesting discussion. Nothing really about the noted issues being discovered within the grading industry, just a grading representative saying there's no reason to not trust the grading companies and the business is only growing.

I posted a video link to Leaf's industry talk in this thread, in which Leaf states the grading issues are limited to only .1% and shouldn't really be much of a concern.
[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1318588[/url]

The data that I've already shared, regarding Black Labels, show this specific issue is higher than .1%. Add in the all the trimmed (altered) cards submitted to BGS, PSA, SGC.... and the % is much, much higher than .1%

[QUOTE=auburn35;15052421]Not sure, just thought that was an interesting discussion. Nothing really about the noted issues being discovered within the grading industry, just a grading representative saying there's no reason to not trust the grading companies and the business is only growing.

[B]I posted a video link to Leaf's industry talk in this thread, in which Leaf states the grading issues are limited to only .1% and shouldn't really be much of a concern.
[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1318588[/url][/B]

The data that I've already shared, regarding Black Labels, show this specific issue is higher than .1%. Add in the all the trimmed (altered) cards submitted to BGS, PSA, SGC.... and the % is much, much higher than .1%[/QUOTE]

Would expect nothing less from Leaf :rolleyes: I would say closer to 5% if if I had to guess, if not more. Especially with Leaf submissions I imagine we are talking about 50% or higher of BS

[QUOTE=auburn35;15052421]Not sure, just thought that was an interesting discussion. Nothing really about the noted issues being discovered within the grading industry,[B][I] just a grading representative saying there's no reason to not trust the grading companies and the business is only growing[/I][/B].

I posted a video link to Leaf's industry talk in this thread, in which [B][I]Leaf states the grading issues are limited to only .1% and shouldn't really be much of a concern.[/I][/B]
[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1318588[/url]

The data that I've already shared, regarding Black Labels, show this specific issue is higher than .1%. Add in the all the trimmed (altered) cards submitted to BGS, PSA, SGC.... and the % is much, much higher than .1%[/QUOTE]Total and complete bs

Edited to add: reminds me of this - [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlURaumkAA8[/url]

[QUOTE=mrdallas;15052432]Would expect nothing less from Leaf :rolleyes: I would say closer to 5% if if I had to guess, if not more. Especially with Leaf submissions I imagine we are talking about 50% or higher of BS[/QUOTE]

Add the fraud rate to the natural error rate, which is 2-3%, I believe, we’re getting to about 10% of all submissions with a problem.

But under certain circumstances (with certain sets, etc) the percentage is obviously worse.

I took about a week and read this entire thread. What a waste of time. Lol! Also I messaged Joe some grading questions and he was extremely helpful and knowledgeable like you would expect from someone with his experience.

[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;15052820]Add the fraud rate to the natural error rate, which is 2-3%, I believe, we’re getting to about 10% of all submissions with a problem.

But under certain circumstances (with certain sets, etc) the percentage is obviously worse.[/QUOTE]

Those numbers are far more believable, based on all the information that has been revealed, so far.

Did you happen to view the video clip? I thought Brian's speech was actually pretty good, overall. I just thought his .1%, point of view was funny, especially as it came up during his segment about positives and negatives in the industry.

For companies like PSA and BGS to basically ignore/block/ban customers who question them or suggest improvements, doesn't seem like a hobby positive. In fact those actions by "Industry leaders", only seem to be promoting the "negativity", within the hobby.

Would really like the prior discussion, which Brian references in his speech to become available or recapped by someone in attendance. Sounds like several topics (PWCC, shill bidding, grading, trimming....) were being discussed in a group setting. I think it would be interesting to hear what the "industry" thoughts were on those topics.

[QUOTE=Pjc75;15053338]I took about a week and read this entire thread. What a waste of time. Lol! Also I messaged Joe some grading questions and he was extremely helpful and knowledgeable like you would expect from someone with his experience.[/QUOTE]

Are you being sarcastic or just......

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/PzC67PnJGGhMI/giphy.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=mrdallas;15054567]Are you being sarcastic or just......[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://thesandtrap.com/uploads/monthly_2017_07/large.595a49e5c89fb_DontFeedtheTrolls.gif.cb3d7ea7b471cf83997cccc0bd27c79a.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=mattglet;15054571][IMG]https://thesandtrap.com/uploads/monthly_2017_07/large.595a49e5c89fb_DontFeedtheTrolls.gif.cb3d7ea7b471cf83997cccc0bd27c79a.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/ap6wcjRyi8HoA/giphy.gif[/img]