[QUOTE=k13;18200124]Shows would be a lot better if internet connection was shut off.[/QUOTE]


For the buyers or the sellers?


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[QUOTE=parkerj33;18200005]Its just my opinion, but I have to agree 100% with Josh here. That's a lot of money flowing elsewhere. For me, I've been a dealer (internet only) for 17 years and never done a show as I just don't see the benefit. The only thing that would sell more easily at shows are the monster boxes of $.25-$2 cards...but i don't really sell those anyhow so no benefit.

Besides the expenses, the time commitment was never something I could tolerate - even for local shows. I do enjoy attending them and visiting with folks, but I prefer the flexibility of dealing on the internet - I can control my time and flow of product better. I'm glad others do it, but its not for me.[/QUOTE]


I have to disagree. I have made some of my absolute best buys at shows, especially buying raw and grading. Monster boxes of .25 to $2 absolutely will fly at the bigger shows. I travel locally to shows to buy and set up at the bigger shows (National, Valley Forge, Chantilly). You can really cut your costs down by car pooling and sharing a hotel room and splitting a booth.

Buy the right card, get a PSA 10 and your covered for the entire year.

[QUOTE=bravesfan#1;18198342]My local shows in NC have been amazing since the summer of 2020. I’ve avoided setting up at larger regional shows due to many reasons stated in this thread. The costs to setup, food, airfare or gas, hotels, etc. are crazy right now if traveling to some of the bigger cities. For one of my large local shows, I can buy 3-5 tables, 1 hotel room for a night, and a couple meals for like $300 max.

Would love to know how much some of these hobby Youtube “influencers” are sweating right now. Flying to shows across the country ever weekend plus all other costs have to be piling up. They’ll showcase highlight videos with prices paid then I see those cards auctioned off the next week for 20% less on eBay before fees. I wouldn’t mind a correction to weed out some of the morons that have entered the hobby the past couple years.

In terms of the shows themselves in my area, they’ve never been better. Most of my inventory is fresh each show so I’m not bringing the same stuff like a lot of people do. Getting 80-110% eBay prices on almost every sale. The sweet spot is $10-200 cards. The high end stuff has definitely slowed down since most people don’t have the budget for it. Retail wax has come to a screeching halt. Some idiots are still bringing retail blasters out for 50% over msrp, I’m sure they’ll stop setting up soon. Those guys looks miserable every show when nobody is stopping by their tables.[/QUOTE]

I have gone to a few NC shows as well as a buyer and seems to be a good mix of new sellers and some I see at each show. Most of them have new inventory or at least priced to move. The ones that are way over comp are always funny because they want to sell their stuff for 2x comp (and say the same as said before) then if you try to trade for something, your card instantly is worth 1/2 of comps.

Planning to hopefully set up for a show next month. I have been gathering some $0.25 cards and then $1+ cards along with graded cards $10+.

[QUOTE=pewe;18200196]For the buyers or the sellers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I really enjoy shows, but its such an instant turnoff for me when I go up to a dealer and ask for a price on a card. Then the dealer has to whip out their phone and look-up comps.

At this point, I hardly even stop anymore if cards aren't priced unless its a really big/unique PC pickup.

[QUOTE=bravesfan#1;18198342]My local shows in NC have been amazing since the summer of 2020. I’ve avoided setting up at larger regional shows due to many reasons stated in this thread. The costs to setup, food, airfare or gas, hotels, etc. are crazy right now if traveling to some of the bigger cities. For one of my large local shows, I can buy 3-5 tables, 1 hotel room for a night, and a couple meals for like $300 max.

[B]Would love to know how much some of these hobby Youtube “influencers” are sweating right now. Flying to shows across the country ever weekend plus all other costs have to be piling up. They’ll showcase highlight videos with prices paid then I see those cards auctioned off the next week for 20% less on eBay before fees. I wouldn’t mind a correction to weed out some of the morons that have entered the hobby the past couple years.[/B]

In terms of the shows themselves in my area, they’ve never been better. Most of my inventory is fresh each show so I’m not bringing the same stuff like a lot of people do. Getting 80-110% eBay prices on almost every sale. The sweet spot is $10-200 cards. The high end stuff has definitely slowed down since most people don’t have the budget for it. Retail wax has come to a screeching halt. Some idiots are still bringing retail blasters out for 50% over msrp, I’m sure they’ll stop setting up soon. Those guys looks miserable every show when nobody is stopping by their tables.[/QUOTE]

Anytime I have watched/listened to them (very hard for a lot of them since I find most of them annoying with their catchphrases.... each time they say it I think of Mean Girls with "Fetch"). It seems like most of them don't have large overhead to begin with aka free place to stay, free food, etc. When they do travel, it always looks to be like 4 or more guys sharing a room along with flying Frontier or the cheapest flights possible.

[QUOTE=hotcalsun;18199336]On the eBay comps, below is what I would summarize and am speaking generally, not specifically about dealers or buyers — heard these on both sides. I listened a lot and had a few conversations myself - I was an all cash buyer this weekend, brought no cards to trade.

- many think their cards are above recent comps, even if they are declining.
- many try to rely on outliers
- few take into consideration the 12% fees + no 1099 on cash deals vs. eBay
- some won’t even sell at a current eBay listed price. I asked why should i buy from you when I can buy it for less on eBay right now. Response: that’s my price.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the update, most of that doesn't surprise me. Popularity of Formula 1 does.

I am convinced that we are fully in another over printer era. Maybe not as much per card as the late 80's, but no shortage in the number of cards of a player and number of sets coming out. It just "seems' different because of all the parallels and smaller sets.

Yes there was 200K of each Topps, Donruss, Fleer,etc of 1988 Bo Jackson. Now there is only say 50K of Wander Franco base topps, but there is 15 parallels of which drive those numbers up and up. Not to mention, opening day, chrome, etc, etc of all the same "card". I have no idea what the actual numbers are for either scenario, but when they get to the point where there are stacks of them everywhere, it doesn't matter.

It comes down to if you view all the parallels and parallel sets using the same photo the "same" card or different.

As far as pricing with taking less off eBay. That goes back the business side. Jewcer does make a good point that you need to substitute eBay 12% to cover costs of setup at the show. That is more of a set price so the percentage would vary on how much in sales are expected.

junk wax was 2-4 million of each card, estimate for 2022 topps wander franco base is 1 million

[QUOTE=anusinha;18200458]junk wax was 2-4 million of each card, estimate for 2022 topps wander franco base is 1 million[/QUOTE]


Wasn’t UD Griffey 20mm+???


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[QUOTE=anusinha;18200458]junk wax was 2-4 million of each card, estimate for 2022 topps wander franco base is 1 million[/QUOTE]

Think it was way more.

2-4 million sounds short printed for that era. :o

Lot of people forget to include shipping in their Ebay prices.

$3 card on ebay is not $3.

[QUOTE=k13;18200124]Shows would be a lot better if internet connection was shut off.[/QUOTE]

But then that would pull everyone out of the PSA app to talk about POP counts and out of eBay app to talk about comps. What we people do then?!?!?!?

[QUOTE=pewe;18200463]Wasn’t UD Griffey 20mm+???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

ive heard 1 million for the 89 UD Griffey.

[QUOTE=Scottish Punk;18200400]Thanks for the update, most of that doesn't surprise me. Popularity of Formula 1 does.

I am convinced that we are fully in another over printer era. Maybe not as much per card as the late 80's, but no shortage in the number of cards of a player and number of sets coming out. It just "seems' different because of all the parallels and smaller sets.

Yes there was 200K of each Topps, Donruss, Fleer,etc of 1988 Bo Jackson. Now there is only say 50K of Wander Franco base topps, but there is 15 parallels of which drive those numbers up and up. Not to mention, opening day, chrome, etc, etc of all the same "card". I have no idea what the actual numbers are for either scenario, but when they get to the point where there are stacks of them everywhere, it doesn't matter.

It comes down to if you view all the parallels and parallel sets using the same photo the "same" card or different.

As far as pricing with taking less off eBay. That goes back the business side. Jewcer does make a good point that you need to substitute eBay 12% to cover costs of setup at the show. That is more of a set price so the percentage would vary on how much in sales are expected.[/QUOTE]

At the Dallas show there were there are stacks of everything, even the same colored / number parallel in the same case. When you have a case full of just Justin Herbert lower numbered RPAs, it destroys any aura of rarity, meaning I am not sure that helps the seller's cause.

Overall, i went there to Dallas hang out with friends, have some BBQ, and possibly buy things if it made sense for me. And I had a good time, which is what I was most interested in.

[QUOTE=anusinha;18200526]ive heard 1 million for the 89 UD Griffey.[/QUOTE]

I just looked it up again from sources like Beckett...

Print run looks like:
-- original run = 1MM
-- "high series" run = multiples of the first
-- two full factory series runs
-- UD selling 500 ct boxes of just Griffey Jr. to dealers at "warehouse shows"

Sounds like "many millions" at least :)

I really enjoy these show recaps, thank you for doing this one.

The only show i'm going to this year is The National and I fully expect it to be a museum (aka just cards for show) and dealers in denial.

But it's an annual thing I do with my dad and we haven't gone in 2-3 years, so I'm still gonna go. If I come home empty handed, so be it...

[QUOTE=jmarascojr;18200636]I really enjoy these show recaps, thank you for doing this one.

The only show i'm going to this year is The National and I fully expect it to be a museum (aka just cards for show) and dealers in denial.

But it's an annual thing I do with my dad and we haven't gone in 2-3 years, so I'm still gonna go. If I come home empty handed, so be it...[/QUOTE]

Enjoy it! Still considering whether I am going to fly out for a day or not.

Forgot to mention.....the Sunday at the show was a good Sunday. Very good attendance but that was because of TJ Watt and the other big name signers. Value was definitely a big hit for me as I saw the spending tightening up all weekend and I do believe this is what you're going to see going forward. More cautionary spending.

[QUOTE=hotcalsun;18200529]At the Dallas show there were there are stacks of everything, even the same colored / number parallel in the same case. When you have a case full of just Justin Herbert lower numbered RPAs, it destroys any aura of rarity, meaning I am not sure that helps the seller's cause.

Overall, i went there to Dallas hang out with friends, have some BBQ, and possibly buy things if it made sense for me. And I had a good time, which is what I was most interested in.[/QUOTE]

I have heard from several that the "Dallas Buzz" just wasn't there this time. Several dealers had a good show and lots did not.....again, it comes down to pricing, pricing and pricing. Sometimes you have to take a loss and move on.

[QUOTE=jewcer2k5;18198059]We get asked A LOT if we go to shows and this is why we don't. Ive been trying to do projections about how much money is OUT of the hobby because of shows. Shows do not bring in new collectors, investors, or speculators it just sucks money out of the hobby. Sure, it's cool to see your friends and go to shows but from a business perspective it is a complete waste. You will get more money for your cards from somewhere else and not have the insane overhead of a show. We ONLY do the National, we have considered traveling to shows to see people and meet folks but setting up is basically out of our minds.

I think 8 figures+ have been given to other industries just by having the influx of shows in the past 2 years.[/QUOTE]

Interesting perspective and something I never really thought of.

I don't do shows myself and there is that feeling that I'm missing that in person experience sometimes. But with gas at $6-7 a galloon, I find it amazing that the same people travel the country going to all the shows.

Once they factor in all the expenses, there is no way most of these guys are profiting.

[QUOTE=pewe;18200463]Wasn’t UD Griffey 20mm+???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I think they are still printing this card today I bet there is some basement at Upper Deck where they are still printing this card.

I don't really consider the overhead of a dealer (whether it's gas/hotel at a show, or ebay fees, or rent for your storefront, etc...) to be money leaving the hobby. Nor do I consider costs of attending shows for buyers to be money leaving the hobby. I think the net money changing hands within the hobby will balance out either way. I think it is being dramatic to claim card shows are sucking money out of the hobby.

Would I be spending that money on a hotel or gas if I didn't go to the show this weekend in the hobby? Probably not. It would go to some other entertainment I have. In fact, I also probably wouldn't be making the card purchases if I didn't go to the show. So just on the buyer side of things, it's actually a net gain of money in the hobby to have shows.

For sellers, your overhead is money "leaving the hobby" anyway, show or not. But again, is it really leaving the hobby if it is allowing you to advance the hobby and/or keep doing business? Sure, you can sit home on the internet and sell cards. Your overhead might be different (maybe even less). But that isn't advancing the hobby at all. After all, the HOBBY is about the collectors, not the businesses.

[QUOTE=solt0131;18209410]I have heard from several that the "Dallas Buzz" just wasn't there this time. Several dealers had a good show and lots did not.....again, it comes down to pricing, pricing and pricing. Sometimes you have to take a loss and move on.[/QUOTE]

The next thing to pricing for shows/tables is variety. Whether that be variety in sports, prices of cards, players or teams. I have gone to shows where a table has 10 cards out for sale (all modern graded) of basketball only and then another table with high end modern basketball (asking $1k+ each). By not having a variety to look at, people won't stick at a table or even get to "up sell" you on other items they may not have out.

[QUOTE=hotcalsun;18199336]On the eBay comps, below is what I would summarize and am speaking generally, not specifically about dealers or buyers — heard these on both sides. I listened a lot and had a few conversations myself - I was an all cash buyer this weekend, brought no cards to trade.

- many think their cards are above recent comps, even if they are declining.
- many try to rely on outliers
-[B] few take into consideration the 12% fees + no 1099 on cash deals vs. eBay[/B]
- some won’t even sell at a current eBay listed price. I asked why should i buy from you when I can buy it for less on eBay right now. Response: that’s my price.[/QUOTE]

Do you take in consideration that as a buyer at a show you get:
1) see the card up close - no blurry of distorted pictures.
2) you get the card immediately after purchase - no relying on a shipping service
3) No shipping cost
4) Most likely no sales tax

[QUOTE=k13;18200124]Shows would be a lot better if internet connection was shut off.[/QUOTE]

K13 must dream of ripping kids off at a show. I love it :p

[QUOTE=SearchPatrol;18209593]Do you take in consideration that as a buyer at a show you get:
1) see the card up close - no blurry of distorted pictures.
2) you get the card immediately after purchase - no relying on a shipping service
3) No shipping cost
4) Most likely no sales tax[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do. But for me and many others those are not meaningful benefits. I have bought much more online since I returned from the Dallas show, unfortunately better prices and better selection. But, to answer you specifics, how I think about them:

1) Don't care.
2) Don't care.
3) Baked into overall cost. I don't see it as $270+$5 shipping, the card is $275.
4) Doesn't apply.

Let's not forget that by not getting a 1099 that many, many dealers do not claim cash deals on taxes and save upwards of a 25% in Federal tax alone. More than cancels any Sales Tax consideration if sales tax even applies.