[QUOTE=TooManyCards76;18722642]Really? 2022 Topps Chrome was a disaster from a QC standpoint… 2022 TC Update was a disaster from a QC standpoint… 2022 Bowman Draft was a disaster from QC standpoint. Gilded at $390/box for 5 cards had great QC, but for that price tag it better. We’ll know for sure if Fanatics is taking steps in the right direction when 2022 Topps Chrome Platinum Anniversary rolls out with its 500 card checklist next month when the previous year’s product having horrible QC. My bet is it’s awful QC and Fanatics hasn’t done a dang thing to correct their QC issues and they don’t plan too. 2023 Topps Chrome will be horrendous too.


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This is recency bias. QC in the sports card industry is at an all time high. It just seems people have blinders on concerning quality control of the past.

[QUOTE=Rjcollings1973;18722629]Stop talking about what they are doing well it ruins the OP's frame of mind.
People would rather complain i think.[/QUOTE]

My favorite part was where the OP said that the management team has no experience in the card industry, while not realizing that Fanatics keep all of the Topps employees and let them run as a subsidiary

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;18722412]2021 AG Chrome had some of the nicest looking cards Topps has released recently. I bought a superfractor and red mini for my collection. I would have also bought an auto version but my PC player didn't have one.[/QUOTE]

When I see something like this I think Topps/Fanatics should be printing these C and D-level products on demand, rather than making a ton of them and forcing shops and online retailers to buy them. Obviously, they run on the newspaper model of selling, which is distributors are forced to buy an allotment in advance and who cares if they can't sell it, but if they're trying to force distros out it only makes sense for them to go this route.

[QUOTE=KhalDrogo;18721439]Every boom has been about making a buck. Every bust has come because you could no longer make a buck.

Collectors aren’t the ones who are going to propel the Fanatics investment higher.[/QUOTE]

Yeah -- boom and bust. What happens after the bust? Prices tank and the market shrinks. And there's only been two booms in the last 30+ years -- not exactly a recurring phenomena.

Collectors have been the backbone of the hobby for generations. The only reason trading cards are popular today is because many adults collected them in their childhood and adolescence.

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;18722674]This is recency bias. QC in the sports card industry is at an all time high. It just seems people have blinders on concerning quality control of the past.[/QUOTE]


No it’s not recency bias unless you’re trying to compare QC to the 80’s/90’s. I’ve been a buyer of Bowman products yearly since the Strasburg hype of 2010 and 2022 was by far the worst QC ever, and it’s not even close. Been buying Topps Chrome & Update Chrome since 2017 and again, 2022 was the worst QC ever and it’s not even close.

You’re not buying wax or haven’t bought wax pre-2021 if you really believe QC is at an all time high. I used to be able to buy 3-6 boxes of any Topps product and on average have about a 50/50 chance or better to grade any #’d parallel as a strong Gem Mint candidate, higher %’s for Autos, and maybe 30-40% chance for a base. No way in heck are the %’s that high in the 2022 releases.


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[QUOTE=TooManyCards76;18722699]No it’s not recency bias unless you’re trying to compare QC to the 80’s/90’s. I’ve been a buyer of Bowman products yearly since the Strasburg hype of 2010 and 2022 was by far the worst QC ever, and it’s not even close. Been buying Topps Chrome & Update Chrome since 2017 and again, 2022 was the worst QC ever and it’s not even close.

You’re not buying wax or haven’t bought wax pre-2021 if you really believe QC is at an all time high. I used to be able to buy 3-6 boxes of any Topps product and on average have about a 50/50 chance or better to grade any #’d parallel as a strong Gem Mint candidate, higher %’s for Autos, and maybe 30-40% chance for a base. No way in heck are the %’s that high in the 2022 releases.


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Can you say anecdotal?

[QUOTE=whitmm;18722668]I never called it a golden age. He was talking about how he loved that time because there were so many options for reasonably priced cards. Which there weren't until the last year when the marked flooded. He's talking about Fanatics not knowing what they are doing and being in over their heads, yet it favorite time collecting was at a time when the companies truly had no idea what they were doing. [B]How many of those companies ended up going bankrupt or were bought up because they were struggling.[/B]

It seems the only difference in what has changed is the number of companies manufacturing cards.[/QUOTE]

The innovations and creativity of the card companies in the 90s are still being used today. Prior to Upper Deck, the card industry was conservative, with companies producing simple, cheap and bland designs. In many ways, the industry today is a zombie still feeding off the 90s era.

[QUOTE=whitmm;18722668]I never called it a golden age. He was talking about how he loved that time because there were so many options for reasonably priced cards. Which there weren't until the last year when the marked flooded. He's talking about Fanatics not knowing what they are doing and being in over their heads, yet it favorite time collecting was at a time when the companies truly had no idea what they were doing. How many of those companies ended up going bankrupt or were bought up because they were struggling.

It seems the only difference in what has changed is the number of companies manufacturing cards.



There are a lot of different products out there now, but it's from 2 companies instead of 5. Flagship is different than Heritage is different than Bowman is different than Five Star. There are many excellent designs out there, especially compared to those junk wax designs. If you can't find a handful of designs you like out of 100's of products and inserts made today, that's your own fault, and you can get them at a reasonable price.

The only reason there was a "market" for base back then is because that was all there was. But it was still stars only. Same as today.

He said he wants simplified checklists, yet references a time when checklists were bloated as his favorite time collecting.

He talks about getting rid of "clone" sets and references Opening Day as one example. Well Opening Day is a product that is exactly what he is looking for. A cheap product with a ton of cards.[/QUOTE]

Fair point, but there were a lot of inserts back then also, just not parallels.

Personally I think (hope anyway) that Fanatics is a little more collector friendly.

[QUOTE=Chicosbailbonds;18722729]Fair point, but there were a lot of inserts back then also, just not parallels.

Personally I think (hope anyway) that Fanatics is a little more collector friendly.[/QUOTE]

So now you have a lot of inserts, more than back then, plus you have parallels. If the OP is actually talking about the number of options to collect, then this era is a gold mine. Tons of reasonably priced cards out there. The lack of a base market now should be that type of collector's dream scenario.

How do you define "collector friendly?"

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;18722703]Can you say anecdotal?[/QUOTE]


What is your deal with being a jerk and just trolling me with idiotic responses. it’s not anecdotal when I’ve bought a minimum of 200+ boxes (probably quite a bit more), watched 100’s of break and everything points to being factually correct. Observing in large sample sizes goes from anecdotal to strong hypothesis to proven fact, but you know this and don’t care.


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[QUOTE=whitmm;18722752]So now you have a lot of inserts, more than back then, plus you have parallels. If the OP is actually talking about the number of options to collect, then this era is a gold mine. Tons of reasonably priced cards out there. The lack of a base market now should be that type of collector's dream scenario.



How do you define "collector friendly?"[/QUOTE]

You've stated "reasonably priced" a couple of times now. If you think cards are reasonably priced now compared to the earlier era being discussed, I don’t know what to tell you.
Back in the 1990's early 2000's I opened a lot of boxes. Now I can rarely afford, let alone justify, buying a box.


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[QUOTE=Astros19;18722773]You've stated "reasonably priced" a couple of times now. If you think cards are reasonably priced now compared to the earlier era being discussed, I don’t know what to tell you.
Back in the 1990's early 2000's I opened a lot of boxes. Now I can rarely afford, let alone justify, buying a box.


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You might want to look at my comments. I've talked about this a couple times. The purchasing power of the dollar is a lot different from the 90's/early 2000's to today.

Are there some boxes that aren't reasonably priced now, sure. Opening Day is affordable, gives you plenty of cards for your money. Big League is affordable. Heritage is affordable. Flagship Hobby is reasonable. Minor League boxes are very reasonable

If you think that cards aren't reasonably priced because you can't buy a box of cards for $20 like you could in the 90's, I don't know what to tell you.

Set collectors have products that are reasonably priced. Player collectors have tons of options for single cards that can be had for cheap.

What were you paying per box in the early 2000's?

[QUOTE=TooManyCards76;18722762]What is your deal with being a jerk and just trolling me with idiotic responses. it’s not anecdotal when I’ve bought a minimum of 200+ boxes (probably quite a bit more), watched 100’s of break and everything points to being factually correct. Observing in large sample sizes goes from anecdotal to strong hypothesis to proven fact, but you know this and don’t care.


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LOL It's not trolling you to disagree with you, nor to point out how your perception is anecdotal and not empirical. :doh:

The only idiotic response is you thinking the breaks you watch (and your perception of the quality control in the product you've seen opened), is in the least bit scientific.

[QUOTE=TooManyCards76;18722762]What is your deal with being a jerk and just trolling me with idiotic responses. it’s not anecdotal when I’ve bought a minimum of 200+ boxes (probably quite a bit more), watched 100’s of break and everything points to being factually correct. Observing in large sample sizes goes from anecdotal to strong hypothesis to proven fact, but you know this and don’t care.[/QUOTE]
It’s what he does. Best to put him on ignore like the rest of us.

[QUOTE=whitmm;18722789]You might want to look at my comments. I've talked about this a couple times. The purchasing power of the dollar is a lot different from the 90's/early 2000's to today.

Are there some boxes that aren't reasonably priced now, sure. Opening Day is affordable, gives you plenty of cards for your money. Big League is affordable. Heritage is affordable. Flagship Hobby is reasonable. Minor League boxes are very reasonable

If you think that cards aren't reasonably priced because you can't buy a box of cards for $20 like you could in the 90's, I don't know what to tell you.

Set collectors have products that are reasonably priced. Player collectors have tons of options for single cards that can be had for cheap.

What were you paying per box in the early 2000's?[/QUOTE]

Ironically none of those brands were brands I enjoyed collecting.
Topps flagship was ok but I enjoyed products like Pinnacle, Zenith, Ultra, Collector's Edge, Upper Deck, Action Packed ect.
I don't remember many, if any at all, $20 boxes, but I opened a ton of $50-$60 boxes, most with 18 or 24 packs.
Good times.
I sell on Ebay, but mostly to get rid of players I don't collect to help buy cards I do collect. I've never considered my collection to be an investment. Sure I hope it retains value, but that's not a priority for me.
It's always just been my hobby, now it's become too expensive.
The addition of the internet has also played a huge role in how my hobby has changed. Some good, some bad.
The almighty dollar has ruined the hobby.

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[QUOTE=KhalDrogo;18722845]It’s what he does. Best to put him on ignore like the rest of us.[/QUOTE]Whenever I read posts like this imagine a child putting his hands over his ears screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over.
People let other's opinions bother them way too much.

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[QUOTE=Astros19;18722863]Ironically none of those brands were brands I enjoyed collecting.
Topps flagship was ok but I enjoyed products like Pinnacle, Zenith, Ultra, Collector's Edge, Upper Deck, Action Packed ect.
I don't remember many, if any at all, $20 boxes, but I opened a ton of $50-$60 boxes, most with 18 or 24 packs.
Good times.
I sell on Ebay, but mostly to get rid of players I don't collect to help buy cards I do collect. I've never considered my collection to be an investment. Sure I hope it retains value, but that's not a priority for me.
It's always just been my hobby, now it's become too expensive.
The addition of the internet has also played a huge role in how my hobby has changed. Some good, some bad.
The almighty dollar has ruined the hobby.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

So your entire argument of there not being reasonably priced boxes now is that you don't enjoy collecting those? That's on you.

One dollar in 2000 is worth about $1.74 today. Using no other factors but purchasing power, that $50-$60 box should cost $85-105 now. A 2000 Series 1 hobby box had somewhere around 400 cards in it (depending on with box you bought). A 2023 Series 1 hobby box has 336.

You can buy a retail box of 2022 Topps Series 1 on BO for $48. That has 384 cards and is pretty much equal to an early 2000's box.

[QUOTE=TooManyCards76;18722699]No it’s not recency bias unless you’re trying to compare QC to the 80’s/90’s. I’ve been a buyer of Bowman products yearly since the Strasburg hype of 2010 and 2022 was by far the worst QC ever, and it’s not even close. Been buying Topps Chrome & Update Chrome since 2017 and again, 2022 was the worst QC ever and it’s not even close.

You’re not buying wax or haven’t bought wax pre-2021 if you really believe QC is at an all time high. I used to be able to buy 3-6 boxes of any Topps product and on average have about a 50/50 chance or better to grade any #’d parallel as a strong Gem Mint candidate, higher %’s for Autos, and maybe 30-40% chance for a base. No way in heck are the %’s that high in the 2022 releases.


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The quality of Living Set has fallen off also.

[QUOTE=Astros19;18722868]Whenever I read posts like this imagine a child putting his hands over his ears screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over.
People let other's opinions bother them way too much.

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That is an apt description of Mr. Drago, et al.

In this instance all I said was I believed the complaints about quality control are recency bias. Then when they came back with "but I watch so many breaks..." I called it anecdotal. THAT is what prompted him to call me a jerk. The absurd sensitivity of people on this site to having their opinion challenged is nuts.

[QUOTE=Astros19;18722868]Whenever I read posts like this imagine a child putting his hands over his ears screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over.
People let other's opinions bother them way too much.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

There is a small, vocal group here that thinks only what they say matters. Can usually find these people by seeing their absurdly large post count.

What puzzles me is all these angry people predicting the end of the hobby for the last 10 years. Why don't they just find a new hobby they can enjoy? Unless, anger is their actual hobby?

[QUOTE=notoriousrmb;18722910] Unless, anger is their actual hobby?[/QUOTE]

That's probably apt in many cases. However, I think ego is the actual hobby for most of them. If they couldn't come here and spout off that they know it all, and pat each other on the back when they shout down a dissenter, they wouldn't have a hobby at all.

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;18722920]That's probably apt in many cases. However, I think ego is the actual hobby for most of them. If they couldn't come here and spout off that they know it all, and pat each other on the back when they shout down a dissenter, they wouldn't have a hobby at all.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunate, but true.

Of course it happens on every message board or social media venue. Just a shame there is so much good information on this board that gets lost in their noise.

[QUOTE=Astros19;18722868]Whenever I read posts like this imagine a child putting his hands over his ears screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" over and over.
People let other's opinions bother them way too much.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
Some people’s opinions aren’t worth ever seeing. Just how some people feel about me.

:D

[QUOTE=whitmm;18722668] If you can't find a handful of designs you like out of 100's of products and inserts made today, that's your own fault, and you can get them at a reasonable price. [/QUOTE]

Name five products out there being released by Topps with a reasonable price for wax boxes that your average collector can buy and rip with the [B]guarantee[/B] that said box will give them decent value for money and leave them feeling satisfied instead of ripped off.

Big League and Opening Day are two (if they get released this year), but that's about it....Flagship & Heritage are no longer reasonably priced at release....

[QUOTE=Astros19;18722773]You've stated "reasonably priced" a couple of times now. If you think cards are reasonably priced now compared to the earlier era being discussed, I don’t know what to tell you.
Back in the 1990's early 2000's I opened a lot of boxes. Now I can rarely afford, let alone justify, buying a box.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly how I (the OP) feel.

Whitmm and I apparently have a very definition of what "reasonably priced" is.....