[QUOTE=lisu;14730471]No matter what Joe posts or anyone else posts, it won't change anyone's minds because people are standing around with their pitchforks. I already talked to someone at BGS today regarding this, and they backed up everything that Joe already posted. That obviously isn't enough for all you naysayers, so there's no point in having Joe spend more time defending himself. I have better things to do in my life than try to argue that the Earth is actually round to a bunch of people who think that it is flat.[/QUOTE]

A large percentage of the posters in the mob for these threads are a combination of the following:
-Have never graded and thus do not understand the process, logistics, risk assessment, gem/pristine rates
-Hate grading
-Are very old and stuck in their ways
-Have graded but received poor results to do an inability to properly assess cards

It's republicans vs liberals; sunni vs shiite; crips vs the bloods. Nothing's changing here.

[QUOTE=imbluestreak23;14731209]Welcome back!

You should have taken advantage of the market 20 years ago. You could have bought clean raw MJs for $1K and sold them today for $20K! You missed out bro![/QUOTE]

Or even last month when you could sell a $1 card for $50.

Just LMAO right now at the people trying to justify/defend BGS and Joe.

Someone who use to work at BGS sends 3 cards in to get graded by BGS. Gets 3/3 Black Label? Are you serious????

Hahahahhaha. Nothing suss at all.

Im 100% convinced Joe and BGS have been in cahoots.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=cardmole;14731235]Or even last month when you could sell a $1 card for $50.[/QUOTE]

:)! :)! :)!

Yes 3/3 unsure about 8/8 and 22/22
 

[QUOTE=dmanrico;14730630]I don't have the time to go back and find the post. To my recollection, Joe admitted he went 3/3 on an order with Black Labels. He then said he did receive 8 in an order and 22 in an order but couldn't remember if those were part of a larger submission or not.[/QUOTE]

My first post here I just joined and I probably don't know any of you. I apologize if this post clogs up the thread.

I have been reading this thread and I do not remember the precise language Joe used, but the quoted language above matches my recollection. So the confusion and assumptions by later posters are understandable to me. Some are going to assume the lack of denial was an admission that it occurred, some will assume Joe was just being very careful not to deny the 8/8 or 22/22 until he was sure of his facts.

Now can we move on?

[QUOTE=999tony;14731257]My first post here I just joined and I probably don't know any of you. I apologize if this post clogs up the thread.

I have been reading this thread and I do not remember the precise language Joe used, but the quoted language above matches my recollection. So the confusion and assumptions by later posters are understandable to me. Some are going to assume the lack of denial was an admission that it occurred, some will assume Joe was just being very careful not to deny the 8/8 or 22/22 until he was sure of his facts.

Now can we move on?[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://45.media.tumblr.com/da672fd85d485b5290c24a52ad2ccd22/tumblr_n3x5oaO5U21riabgvo6_r5_250.gif[/IMG]

This thread just gets better and better since I last caught up. Again, thx to those exposing this.

In my personal opinion - Nothing will come of this on a big scale. Meaning, BGS will keep on grading and making $. As we all know, the only way to make a change in corporate world is to affect the bottom line. This might dust up some responses and promises being made but at end of day as long as they are not losing $$, the gravy train will just chug along.

Same way people always complain about Topps customer service. Complaints come and go yet Topps never chimes in and train keeps moving.

I am not advocating a boycott of a company. I am just stating a fact in American consumerism.
Affect the bottom line and change happens. Anything else is just noise.

[QUOTE=3of5-2;14731070]CDS;Clemons Derangement Syndrome
2 years and 2500 pages from now, NO Collusion NO Obstruction
Whatever Joe decides to disclose, it will never be enough to satisfy those with CDS.[/QUOTE]

Wow, I lose more faith in humanity with each passing day...

Hey all, I'm working on putting together one of Joe's bigger orders--one that includes 10s and 9.5s--and hope to have that done reasonably soon. Already over 70 cards. But in the meantime, here is one I found from 8/28/18.

I think SuperDan previously linked to one of these, which is how I found it. But if anyone is willing to help there are two things you can do in a few minutes:

1) Please see if you can definitively link at least one of these to Joe through WorthPoint or some other tool that goes beyond eBay's sold results. I'm 99.99% sure they're his. But always nice to have a link.

2) Though I checked 25 serial numbers before and 40 after, it's possible there are some more cards from this order lurking further down 80, 100 serial numbers. You'd be looking for cards graded on the same date that would either be Black Labels, 10s, or 9.5s. They would likely be 10s or 9.5s as I'm noticing a pattern of Joe getting grades in chunks. So, if anyone wants to search a little farther, please PM me with your findings.

Here are the results thus far. Thanks!

[B]08/28/18: 18 Graded: 7 Black Labels (39%), 11 BGS 10s (61%)[/B]

Checked the 25 Serial Numbers before these
[B]10767982 2017 Bowman’s Best Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Black Label (Pop:3)
10767983 2017 Bowman’s Best Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Black Label (Pop:3)
10767984 2017 Bowman Chrome Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Black Label (Pop:1)
10767985 2017 Bowman Chrome Draft Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Black Label (Pop: 2)
10767986 2013 Topps Finest Derek Jeter Black Label (Pop: 1)
10767987 2013 Panini Prizm Mike Trout Black Label (Pop: 3, I believe Clemons has 1 if not both of the others)
10767988 2017 Topps Heritage Mike Trout BGS 10 (Pop: 1, none higher)
10767989 2016 Bowman’s Best Luis Severino Black Label (Pop: 1)[/B]
10767990 2016 Elite Extra Brandon Marsh Auto BGS 10 (Pop: 1, none higher)
10767991 2016 Bowman’s Best Tyler O’Neill Auto BGS 10 (Pop: 12, none higher)
10767992 2009 Upper Deck X Xponential 2 Derek Jeter BGS 10 (Pop: 1, none higher)
10767993 2012 Topps Mike Trout BGS 10 (Pop: 8, none higher)
10767994 2012 Panini Prizm Mike Trout BGS 10 (Pop: 21, 2 higher –at least one by Clemons)
10767995 2014 Topps Chrome Mike Trout Refractors BGS 10 (Pop: 1, none higher)
10767996 2006 Upper Deck Special FX WBC Derek Jeter BGS 10 (Pop: 1, none higher)
10767997 2010 Topps Update Mike Stanton BGS 10 (Pop: 6, none higher)
10767998 2018 Topps Highlights Derek Jeter BGS 10 (Pop: 1, none higher)
10767999 2018 Topps Highlights Derek Jeter BGS 10 (Pop: 1, none higher) (different #)
Checked the 40 serial numbers after these

[QUOTE=lisu;14730471]No matter what Joe posts or anyone else posts, it won't change anyone's minds because people are standing around with their pitchforks. [B] I already talked to someone at BGS today regarding this, and they backed up everything that Joe already posted.[/B] That obviously isn't enough for all you naysayers, so there's no point in having Joe spend more time defending himself. I have better things to do in my life than try to argue that the Earth is actually round to a bunch of people who think that it is flat.[/QUOTE]



Thanks for doing this for us. Who did you talk to? What did you ask them?

1. Did you ask how many cards he's submitted over the last year?
2. Did you ask how many total black labels he received?
3. Did you ask how many 10's he received?
4. Did you ask why he received such a high percentage of both?
5. did you ask why his serial numbering on his orders are different than others?
6. Did you ask if only junior graders graded his cards?

[QUOTE=Blue_Devil;14730018]Not to answer for kyaa who I think has been spot on in this whole thing but I would want to see at least that there were 62,000 cards in the submission that yielded 22 black labels. Then the statistical impossibility needle would move some.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Kyaa has absolutely been spot on in this whole time. And do you know why? It's because he is uncovering truths instead of trying desperately to cover them up and deflect. It's much easier to appear right when you are defending the truth. It's astonishing to me how many people, even though the number is still relatively small, are defending these guys. Someone mentioned a few posts up that they actually commend BG for what he is doing? I like to think of myself as a very open minded person, but the people who don't see the BG is just repeatedly spewing complete nonsense in an effort to protect himself and a friend, are blind in my personal opinion.

Also, this reveal of submission information would literally have to show 60k+ cards to make it even somewhat credible, as Blue Devil stated. This is just smoke and mirrors, which BG is oddly setting us up for prior to release.

And oh, by the way, where the hell is WJC? For a member who has been so active on these forums for so long, it's just so bizarre and damning to disappear at this time. Why does he need Super Dan to access his account for him, LOL! What is this!?

[QUOTE=999tony;14731257]My first post here I just joined and I probably don't know any of you. I apologize if this post clogs up the thread.

I have been reading this thread and I do not remember the precise language Joe used, but the quoted language above matches my recollection. So the confusion and assumptions by later posters are understandable to me. Some are going to assume the lack of denial was an admission that it occurred, some will assume Joe was just being very careful not to deny the 8/8 or 22/22 until he was sure of his facts.

Now can we move on?[/QUOTE]

GTFOOH

[QUOTE=3of5-2;14731070]CDS;Clemons Derangement Syndrome
2 years and 2500 pages from now, NO Collusion NO Obstruction
Whatever Joe decides to disclose, it will never be enough to satisfy those with CDS.[/QUOTE]

CDS? Couldn't come up with something original?
Thanks for adding SO much to the thread.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

As I await the results being posted, I am trying to decide at what % above the norm I would consider some sort of foul play? I'm going to try and establish a baseline for the specific cards he got Black Labels on, subtracting his numbers from the total, to get a number per card that the rest of the submitters achieved. I'll also take into account how many cards he submitted and the ratio Joe received. Looking at both, I will have a comparison for how many per submission he got Black Labels vs. the average. Depending on whether it is the same, 1.5x, 3x, 5x, or 10x+ the norm will determine whether I think that he and someone inside Beckett are part of something fraudulent.

Waiting for the stats like everyone else.

[QUOTE=Asian62150;14730065]Great work by the BO detectives. Appreciate all the digging in regards to this as well as trimming, altering, etc...in other words, THINGS THAT NEGATIVELY AFFECT THIS GREAT HOBBY.

Yes, we live in a country where everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty--which is a great thing. But, people have questions and simply want them answered. Why? Because we care about the hobby.

We don't have the right to see his BGS account. But if he's innocent, why not post a screen shot immediately showing his submissions?

What's the downside?

He can black out all personal information outside of proving it is his own account. If he's really the "Michael Jordan" of identifying cards for grading, he can probably open a business looking at cards worthy of the Black. He can set up shop right next to BGS at the National and I'm sure there would be a line for this guy. Great for him!

I would also think LEAF would want to know their employee is 100% clean ASAP as well. Taking the stance of "Switzerland" comes off as either lazy or part of the problem. It doesn't mean they are part of the problem, but that's the optics. As many have stated, their faith in the LEAF brand has been shaken as a result of this.

If BGS, LEAF, and Joe are all innocent, they should have responded IMMEDIATELY with evidence showing there is nothing shady going on.

[B]Pros:[/B] Protect your brand, keep business growing, keep your reputation, show your clients you are not above transparency.

[B]Cons:[/B] Reputation takes a hit, digging continues, more questions arise, people make negative assumptions, faith and trust in the hobby is shaken (more than it already is)

We should be THANKING the guys who have spent their personal time looking into this and uncovering things that lead to questions. They didn't need to pour over this guy's ebay account or his BGS submissions. They're not getting paid one way or another for their time spent on this.

It's not a witch hunt or a mob scene, it's an effort to CLEAN UP OUR HOBBY! Whether the guy is innocent or guilty, everyone should be rooting for any kind of nefarious acts to be exposed and dealt with!

[B]Thank you[/B] to all those that have looked into this and have kept the pressure on for the truth to come out![/QUOTE]

Retweet

I posted a sub after 17 Bowman where I got 15 10's out of 30 cards, 5 of those being black labels. Just wanted to post it since it may be the closest thing to a Joe order I have seen.

The black labels were not numbered sequentially.

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1129512[/url]

[QUOTE=Kullster;14731451]As I await the results being posted, I am trying to decide at what % above the norm I would consider some sort of foul play? I'm going to try and establish a baseline for the specific cards he got Black Labels on, subtracting his numbers from the total, to get a number per card that the rest of the submitters achieved. I'll also take into account how many cards he submitted and the ratio Joe received. Looking at both, I will have a comparison for how many per submission he got Black Labels vs. the average. Depending on whether it is the same, 1.5x, 3x, 5x, or 10x+ the norm will determine whether I think that he and someone inside Beckett are part of something fraudulent.

Waiting for the stats like everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Sounds good. Thanks for pulling together this info. Will be interested to see the results.

[QUOTE=JacobCYE;14731460]I posted a sub after 17 Bowman where I got 15 10's out of 30 cards, 5 of those being black labels. Just wanted to post it since it may be the closest thing to a Joe order I have seen.

The black labels were not numbered sequentially.

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1129512[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. That's definitely the highest success rate I've seen from another collector. Helpful data point in establishing a comparison.

[QUOTE=999tony;14731257]My first post here I just joined and I probably don't know any of you. I apologize if this post clogs up the thread.

I have been reading this thread and I do not remember the precise language Joe used, but the quoted language above matches my recollection. So the confusion and assumptions by later posters are understandable to me. Some are going to assume the lack of denial was an admission that it occurred, some will assume Joe was just being very careful not to deny the 8/8 or 22/22 until he was sure of his facts.

Now can we move on?[/QUOTE]

Thanks Joe!! Phenomenal first post....now log off blowout and slam computer on the ground

[QUOTE=999tony;14731257]My first post here I just joined and I probably don't know any of you. I apologize if this post clogs up the thread.

I have been reading this thread and I do not remember the precise language Joe used, but the quoted language above matches my recollection. So the confusion and assumptions by later posters are understandable to me. Some are going to assume the lack of denial was an admission that it occurred, some will assume Joe was just being very careful not to deny the 8/8 or 22/22 until he was sure of his facts.

Now can we move on?[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/TlK63ERYSGQsdqG04uc/giphy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=LALeakers;14731482]Thanks Joe!! Phenomenal first post....now log off blowout and slam computer on the ground[/QUOTE]

L O L pigback style.

[QUOTE=JacobCYE;14731460]I posted a sub after 17 Bowman where I got 15 10's out of 30 cards, 5 of those being black labels. Just wanted to post it since it may be the closest thing to a Joe order I have seen.

The black labels were not numbered sequentially.

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1129512[/url][/QUOTE]

The most important part of your post, that they didn’t change out the tape and lump the black labels together. Once again only on Joe’s orders are they in sequential order! Great grades on your submission, congrats

Superdan? Joe must literally have thousands of submissions for it to take this long.

[QUOTE=imbluestreak23;14731244]:)! :)! :)![/QUOTE]



Bluestreak: Your a high volume grader.


How many blacks have you received over the years? Or are you just a PSA guy?

[QUOTE=LEAF;14730794]Kyaa,
I wasnt gonna address this, but I am deflecting nothing.
On the contrary, I have worked with Dan to find the RIGHT way to address this on the boards for Joe. We discussed a wide range of options and with every option the answer ended up being "but the couple of guys on the boards will want more". Finally, it was decided releasing this account info to Dan was the best of the options. I am confident the primary antagonists here will never be happy, but the access he is providing is extraordinary and unprecedented.

I believe strongly the reasonable and rational will be able to extrapolate whatever they need to from the data. (I for one hope I fit the reasonable and rationale camp..)
BG[/QUOTE]

Brian, seriously! The extraordinary and unprecedented aspect for Joe would be to post his results on his own, not having to have an intermediate look at his account! If someone were to accuse me of #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ on my orders i would post my own results, not prove how unprecedented I am by having someone else look at my account!