duron,
I was going to ask how do I take a large screenshot like you did?

[QUOTE=rogermaris;13756269]Good catch! I don't do BGS so I'm glad people with more knowledge about it are chiming in. It seems like they potentially use two different styles for their slips currently, which is sorta strange, but could explain the discrepancy.

Also, just a heads up that I believe the card in this auction is fake:

[URL]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-Iverson-1998-Star-Rubies-50-BGS-Rare-90s-Insert/263834782086?hash=item3d6dc74986%3Ag%3AuxMAAOSwVb5bV1JF&_udlo=111&_nkw=%281998%2C1997%2C1999%2C%2297-98%22%2C%2296-97%22%2C%2298-99%22%2C%2299-00%22%29+-art+-hockey+-nhl+-gretzky+-quantum+-royale&_sacat=212&_from=R40&LH_BIN=1&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0%7C0[/URL]

It's the same card that was sold here from Taiwan. The blurry back scan is the only reason I can't say with 100 percent certainty that it's fake, but I'm comfortable saying I'm 99.9 percent sure:

[URL]https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/163028248675?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l10137[/URL]

Unfortunately, I have a feeling the buyer found out it was fake, hence why they're not showing a picture of the back in their current auction. Also this gem from the listing:

"With all the fake crap from China. Never buy ungraded 90s inserts. "

:doh:[/QUOTE]I just put this auction into my watching list like 5 minutes ago and now....

Great catch @rogermaris you just save my piggy bank :)


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rogermaris has collectively saved this forum so much money. Great work as always, man. You are an amazing asset to the boards.

I know the fakes are scaring people away but I think this will actually just raise the prices of the stuff we know is real. Get your high end 90s stuff sent to PSA if your card is raw if youre worried. If you're buying just run it by the community first. It's up to us to keep the fakes out.

[QUOTE=Kardbordkrakhed;13756327]duron,
I was going to ask how do I take a large screenshot like you did?[/QUOTE]

PrtScn (just a copy action for a screenshot) while zoomed in on the label on ebay and paste into ms paint. Then just crop the rest of the image out.

Sorry but can we have a list of fake inserts/parallels so as new collectors like me will know.

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Jocel;13708946]Is this fake?! Damn!! Just saw this landed in philippines...


Posted like 2 weeks ago. Tsk tsk!

[QUOTE=goryotic;13759282]Sorry but can we have a list of fake inserts/parallels so as new collectors like me will know.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

See page 4 of this thread, most if not all are covered.

It's funny though, people have been calling for a sticky thread about this very topic for years and it still hasn't happened... but a Panini insert compendium gets posted a month ago and it's already pinned. Lol.

(inb4 BO sells mostly Panini/modern, I get it)

[QUOTE=goryotic;13759286][QUOTE=Jocel;13708946]Is this fake?! Damn!! Just saw this landed in philippines...


Posted like 2 weeks ago. Tsk tsk![/QUOTE]

Welcome to BO, goryotic..

I was the one who told jocel about that post.

I don't know about the graded cases as much, but, the easiest way to tell a fake is to just compare it to a KNOWN legit one - If it doesn't appear the same don't buy it!!!

Also, what in God's name is going on with 90's Topps cards like Chrome and now finest refractors?!?! I thought it was limited to just Chrome, but, now I'm starting to see like 97-98 finest embossed refractors die cuts starting to turn green - if you have a Jordan and spent a ton of coin on it and it turns Zombie, you're SCREWED!!! Wtf?!?! Is it possible it might have something to do with acids from fingers? It's like waiting for a magwai to turn into a gremlin for crying out loud

[QUOTE=DaaaaBears;13760639]I don't know about the graded cases as much, but, the easiest way to tell a fake is to just compare it to a KNOWN legit one - If it doesn't appear the same don't buy it!!!

Also, what in God's name is going on with 90's Topps cards like Chrome and now finest refractors?!?! I thought it was limited to just Chrome, but, now I'm starting to see like 97-98 finest embossed refractors die cuts starting to turn green - if you have a Jordan and spent a ton of coin on it and it turns Zombie, you're SCREWED!!! Wtf?!?! Is it possible it might have something to do with acids from fingers? It's like waiting for a magwai to turn into a gremlin for crying out loud[/QUOTE]

You just have to keep your refractors out of the BRIGHT LIGHT BRIGHT LIGHT BRIGHT LIGHT!

Oh, and you can’t feed your refractors after midnight😉

[QUOTE=ragingbull;13760506][QUOTE=goryotic;13759286]

Welcome to BO, goryotic..

I was the one who told jocel about that post.[/QUOTE]

Thanks sir! Will be lurking around here.

[QUOTE=DaaaaBears;13760639]I don't know about the graded cases as much, but, the easiest way to tell a fake is to just compare it to a KNOWN legit one - If it doesn't appear the same don't buy it!!!

Also, what in God's name is going on with 90's Topps cards like Chrome and now finest refractors?!?! I thought it was limited to just Chrome, but, now I'm starting to see like 97-98 finest embossed refractors die cuts starting to turn green - if you have a Jordan and spent a ton of coin on it and it turns Zombie, you're SCREWED!!! Wtf?!?! Is it possible it might have something to do with acids from fingers? It's like waiting for a magwai to turn into a gremlin for crying out loud[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kardbordkrakhed;13761359]You just have to keep your refractors out of the BRIGHT LIGHT BRIGHT LIGHT BRIGHT LIGHT!

Oh, and you can’t feed your refractors after midnight😉[/QUOTE]

I think it's humidity that does it, I've opened a box before and some of them came out with discoloration problems. Some type of chemical reaction, or oxidation in the materials they used to put the cards together is started by humidity.

I actually managed to research the name of the guy that created the chroming process a while back, the very same that Topps licensed/used to create these Finest cards and the subsequent Chrome stuff. ...I meant to email him to get information direct from the source, but never did end up doing it. :o

[QUOTE=AbraCalabro;13763516]I think it's humidity that does it, I've opened a box before and some of them came out with discoloration problems. Some type of chemical reaction, or oxidation in the materials they used to put the cards together is started by humidity.

I actually managed to research the name of the guy that created the chroming process a while back, the very same that Topps licensed/used to create these Finest cards and the subsequent Chrome stuff. ...I meant to email him to get information direct from the source, but never did end up doing it. :o[/QUOTE]



Perhaps you should.:)

[QUOTE=AbraCalabro;13763516]I actually managed to research the name of the guy that created the chroming process a while back, the very same that Topps licensed/used to create these Finest cards and the subsequent Chrome stuff. ...I meant to email him to get information direct from the source, but never did end up doing it. :o[/QUOTE]

Da dat funk.

The furthest I went was reading up on the actual patents, as if that would even reveal something of significance. :doh:

Looks like the gem masters are being faked too, since last year or so.

This Kobe was posted in 2017:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5pVZ9p0.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VoSs264.png[/IMG]

I know there's at least one fake Penny floating around as well.

I doubt these will be mass produced, and I doubt most collectors will care since most will never run into one of these, but the few that do could get taken for a lot, so I just wanted to make sure it's out there that this set cannot be trusted.

Incidentally, it seems like once the forgers master a certain foil technology they focus on faking all the sets that use it. The foil used on the gem masters is the same used on the super raves, 98-99 star rubies, etc. I think they've pretty much exhausted all the high end 90s basketball sets that use it now though...

Thanks for sharing. I've seen a fake penny. It's kind of surprising someone would fake a 1/1.

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I know there is a fake Tim Duncan Gem Masters too. I’ve heard there are two Jordan’s as well. I wonder if Fleer/Skybox made 2 copies of each card and the second one made it out. I don’t remember them being in the bankruptcy auction.

Yes I have heard of two Jordan Gem Masters as well, I have also seen pictures of two different kobes.

[QUOTE=Doublexthebeast;13768087]I’ve heard there are two Jordan’s as well.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GOLDPRIZM;13768118]Yes I have heard of two Jordan Gem Masters as well[/QUOTE]

Ya there was a separate thread about it a while back.
[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=837809[/url]

If memory serves that thread came about only after it was discussed more in depth in yet another thread that I can't find atm. Had a lot of pics, could be photobucket wiped.

[QUOTE=duron;13768579]
If memory serves that thread came about only after it was discussed more in depth in yet another thread that I can't find atm. Had a lot of pics, could be photobucket wiped.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this. I should have made this distinction in my original post -- each gem masters does have an unstamped counterpart (some of which have been stamped by unscrupulous sellers). Those cards are real.

These cards are fakes created from the ground up. Unfortunately, the fact that there's already two copies of a card that is supposed to be completely unique muddles the water a bit and makes it easier for these sorts of fakes to proliferate.

I think we should consider using clearer, more defined terms due to the complex layering of the issue. Fake is a pretty broad term and encompasses the entire landscape.


Replica - built from the ground up and replicated by a 3rd party from scratch. was not manufactured by Fleer/Skybox/etc.

Altered - officially manufactured by Fleer/Skybox/etc and acquired either thru bankruptcy sale or other means, then altered by a 3rd party with such things as aftermarket stamping or numbering

I saw a pretty good discussion about this topic on Youtube this morning. I'm not too big into the 90s stuff, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

[QUOTE=Deadshot;13779621]I saw a pretty good discussion about this topic on Youtube this morning. I'm not too big into the 90s stuff, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.[/QUOTE]

link?

[QUOTE=27426;13779740]link?[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULs8YIOQGpc[/url]

Here's a new listing on ebay and a listing from 2015.


[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180804/ce6f634326f2f871fb99eda1eac17f1c.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180804/a2f63988c1b04c84a187f3c96fd7e2c2.jpg[/IMG]

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