My Solution for fake PSA slabs
 

We all know how now a days scammers can crack open psa cases and replace an authentic card with a fake, and then sell it. It occurred to me that psa should take super high def scans every card they grade, when you search the cards id number the scan would show up. I think it would be extremely difficult for someone to recreate the exact right wear and printing errors on a vintage card, and centering on all cards. It would also show if the case had any frosting when it was made so there would be no doubt that it was cracked. Do you think this would work?

Can anyone show me an opened lighthouse slab that is intact? Because cracking cards out of them to resubmit is like breaking into a safe.

Arthur

[QUOTE=GoldPanner;14311991]We all know how now a days scammers can crack open psa cases and replace an authentic card with a fake, and then sell it. It occurred to me that psa should take super high def scans every card they grade, when you search the cards id number the scan would show up. I think it would be extremely difficult for someone to recreate the exact right wear and printing errors on a vintage card, and centering on all cards. It would also show if the case had any frosting when it was made so there would be no doubt that it was cracked. Do you think this would work?[/QUOTE]

Frosting on a case when PSA scans- So if the owner drops it or it gets roughed up in shipping it's no doubt cracked? What it PSA causes the damage post scan?

This is possible just not practical (without incurring a higher cost). They are slow/backed up now. Imagine them scanning, uploading and saving all that info. They would need to do the back as well. It would increase costs which they will pass to us.

Better solution....stop treating PSA grades/slabs as credible when it comes to high-value cards of hot players.

The reality is that 99% of the problems that happen with grading companies occur either with high-value easily altered/faked cards, or cards where people are willing to pay a premium for a PSA 10.

You don't hear about too many problems with PSA 8 1975 Topps Reggie Jackson cards, for example.....:D

if you've ever opened a lighthouse slab, you would know how much harder they are to open and they totally shatter from the force needed to pry them apart. when you separate them, between shards and pieces broken off and frosting, its impossible to keep them intact enough to reseal them and make them look original.

[QUOTE=dictoresno;14312243]if you've ever opened a lighthouse slab, you would know how much harder they are to open and they totally shatter from the force needed to pry them apart. when you separate them, between shards and pieces broken off and frosting, its impossible to keep them intact enough to reseal them and make them look original.[/QUOTE]

I’d tend to believe this unless someone shows proof of a switch happening

[QUOTE=kyleuk21;14312258]I’d tend to believe this unless someone shows proof of a switch happening[/QUOTE]

They're probably still working on it. Give it a couple years.

[QUOTE=kyleuk21;14312258]I’d tend to believe this unless someone shows proof of a switch happening[/QUOTE]

ive cracked a few of the newer lighthouse slabs and they shatter like crazy. pieces of them go everywhere and I seriously needed to torque some with a screwdriver to get them apart. there is no way to properly keep the new ones intact and look non frosted.

More likely:

Someone creates imitation slabs
Cracks open a legitimate card
Seals counterfeit card and slip into imitation slab

We have counterfeit cards coming out of China, I'm sure they can mold a piece of plastic.

[QUOTE=dictoresno;14312243]if you've ever opened a lighthouse slab, you would know how much harder they are to open and they totally shatter from the force needed to pry them apart. when you separate them, between shards and pieces broken off and frosting, its impossible to keep them intact enough to reseal them and make them look original.[/QUOTE]

The thing is I’ve seen psa slabs with some iconic vintage card in it and the label says it’s the original but the seller is selling it as a probable reprint

[QUOTE=GoldPanner;14312312]The thing is I’ve seen psa slabs with some iconic vintage card in it and the label says it’s the original but the seller is selling it as a probable reprint[/QUOTE]

probably the older pre 2006 slabs right

I’m new (not new but getting back into cards after many many years) and the one thing that was stressed to me years ago was to buy the card, not the grade in the case.


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Why can't they just put a plastic tape seal on the top and bottom. Like those ones that Topps had where if you peal it off, it leaves the words Topps on the plastic. I would think the technology is there to heat seal the case with that type of plastic.

[QUOTE=dictoresno;14312243]if you've ever opened a lighthouse slab, you would know how much harder they are to open and they totally shatter from the force needed to pry them apart. when you separate them, between shards and pieces broken off and frosting, its impossible to keep them intact enough to reseal them and make them look original.[/QUOTE]

THIS.

I've actually stopped cracking the lighthouse slabs because the odds of damaging the card are too great. I only use a mitre saw now to cut the top part and then both sides. Anyone that has any doubts about the PSA slab, just go ahead and crack one open. You'll see.

Arthur

[url]https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1012514/new-image-tech-job-becomes-available-at-psa#latest[/url]


But your certainly not the firt to come up with this simple idea.

[QUOTE=vwnut13;14312311]More likely:

Someone creates imitation slabs
Cracks open a legitimate card
Seals counterfeit card and slip into imitation slab

We have counterfeit cards coming out of China, I'm sure they can mold a piece of plastic.[/QUOTE]

A majority of those fake slabs, cards and holders are coming from Mexico, not China. And yes, I am being dead serious.

[QUOTE=thekids;14315127]A majority of those fake slabs, cards and holders are coming from Mexico, not China. And yes, I am being dead serious.[/QUOTE][url=https://imgflip./i/2rrgcu][img]https://i.imgflip.com/2rrgcu.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://imgflip.com/memegenerator]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/url]

Sent from my Motorola Razor Flip Phone

[QUOTE=MarvinGardens;14315303][url=https://imgflip./i/2rrgcu][img]https://i.imgflip.com/2rrgcu.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://imgflip.com/memegenerator]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/url]

Sent from my Motorola Razor Flip Phone[/QUOTE]

THAT. IS. FUNNY!

thanks!

Ok, I'll ask. What is a lighthouse slab?

[QUOTE=mouschi;14315321]Ok, I'll ask. What is a lighthouse slab?[/QUOTE]

when the PSA logo is two toned and reflective like this

[IMG]https://blowoutbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/label-callouts-back.png?w=636&h=224[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Fql1MVfl.png[/IMG]

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7eMC2eZs6NE[/url]

[QUOTE=HarryLime;14312091]Can anyone show me an opened lighthouse slab that is intact? Because cracking cards out of them to resubmit is like breaking into a safe.

Arthur[/QUOTE]



Excuse the noob question, but how would I tell the difference between a lighthouse slab and a non-lighthouse slab?

There seem to be price ranges based on grades, then further broken down into the time period it was graded (half grades, or no?) and then again based on the case it’s in.

Holy smokes.

Is there a known serial number that roughly marks the beginning of the “newest” PSA version?

[QUOTE=DaRitz;14315336]Excuse the noob question, but how would I tell the difference between a lighthouse slab and a non-lighthouse slab?

There seem to be price ranges based on grades, then further broken down into the time period it was graded (half grades, or no?) and then again based on the case it’s in.

Holy smokes.

Is there a known serial number that roughly marks the beginning of the “newest” PSA version?[/QUOTE]

not lighthouse
[IMG]https://bbcemporium.com/images/MJ%20Counterfeit%20Guide/gen9front.JPG[/IMG]

lighthouse

[IMG]https://bbcemporium.com/images/MJ%20Counterfeit%20Guide/gen10front.JPG[/IMG]

[QUOTE=DaRitz;14315336]Excuse the noob question, but how would I tell the difference between a lighthouse slab and a non-lighthouse slab?

There seem to be price ranges based on grades, then further broken down into the time period it was graded (half grades, or no?) and then again based on the case it’s in.

Holy smokes.

Is there a known serial number that roughly marks the beginning of the “newest” PSA version?[/QUOTE]



The newest lighthouse labeled cards started coming to market in June 2017, roughly around certs beginning with 27400000. Recently, bulk sellers have been forced to use some of the older hologram labels so every now and then you will see newer certs (for example, anything current 27500000-4240000) but has an older label. According to a bulk seller I spoke with yesterday, PSA forced them to use them because they know they are a bulk seller and had no choice. But those are still current graded cards and I believe still use the same holder, just different label.


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[QUOTE=vwnut13;14312311]
We have counterfeit cards coming out of China, I'm sure they can mold a piece of plastic.[/QUOTE]

Counterfeit cards are coming from everywhere, including America. It would be naive to think the counterfeiting/trimming/altering don't happen in the US, but only in other countries.

[QUOTE=GoldPanner;14311991]We all know how now a days scammers can crack open psa cases and replace an authentic card with a fake, and then sell it. It occurred to me that psa should take super high def scans every card they grade, when you search the cards id number the scan would show up. I think it would be extremely difficult for someone to recreate the exact right wear and printing errors on a vintage card, and centering on all cards. It would also show if the case had any frosting when it was made so there would be no doubt that it was cracked. Do you think this would work?[/QUOTE]

Can you imagine the back log? It's not like they would hire a bunch of new people, that hurts profits. I can just imagine "john" sitting by himself slowly scanning 1 card at a time, maybe taking an extra long lunch break. What's the bgs turnaround, cause they would give it a run for the money.

[QUOTE=LC2nine10;14315460]Can you imagine the back log? It's not like they would hire a bunch of new people, that hurts profits. I can just imagine "john" sitting by himself slowly scanning 1 card at a time, maybe taking an extra long lunch break. What's the bgs turnaround, cause they would give it a run for the money.[/QUOTE]

Naa.. its easier and quicker than that.
Theyre not running out to a BestBuy and purchasing a scanner.
They are almost certainly using a high end professional scanner with a oversized screen, and automated features so they can scan 9-12 slabs at a time, and the images are then seperated by themselves and the cert number appended to the file name. After that, the placement into a folder structure (a web servers back end is just a file/folder structure) for display being the last part, and is almost certainly automated by a script or routine.

They will hire one-three professionals that will be part of the marketing/design team, and will work hand in hand with quality assurance and the web team that manages the site.
Lastly, a license for sql server on their web server for the image database.

200-270k annual cost for technology, licensing, support and employee resources.
They make that in a week.

Then they charge submitters a nominal fee to obtain emailed or dowloadable scans. Then when the card goes to auction charge potential bidders another nominal fee so they can positively id the original card. A similar revenue maker as the PSA/DNA Quick Opinion.

[QUOTE=DaRitz;14315336]Is there a known serial number that roughly marks the beginning of the “newest” PSA version?[/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=260354&highlight=cert+numbers"]http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=260354&highlight=cert+numbers[/URL]

As you can see by the link (I am swarmee on Net54), you can find those cert numbers but you have to skip many of them that were slabbed with old holders/flips. Also, because of the new slabs, many collectors have reholdered higher value cards with old cert numbers into new slabs with lighthouse flips. So you may see a card with Serial number 05004303 with a new flip instead of the original one with rounded red borders and dot matrix text.

I prefer cracking the new PSA light house holders as it is very easy. I likely use a different technique than the folks above. The top of the case fits over the bottom. I trim the over hang off all the way around, clip the top right corner, slide in a flat head screwdriver and lift. Easy peasy takes about 45 seconds. I've done over 50 of them and haven't had a single one shatter.
Steve

[QUOTE=prgsdw;14592833]I prefer cracking the new PSA light house holders as it is very easy. I likely use a different technique than the folks above. The top of the case fits over the bottom. I trim the over hang off all the way around, clip the top right corner, slide in a flat head screwdriver and lift. Easy peasy takes about 45 seconds. I've done over 50 of them and haven't had a single one shatter.
Steve[/QUOTE]

Well PSA is screwed

[QUOTE]I prefer cracking the new PSA light house holders as it is very easy. I likely use a different technique than the folks above. The top of the case fits over the bottom. I trim the over hang off all the way around, clip the top right corner, slide in a flat head screwdriver and lift. Easy peasy takes about 45 seconds. I've done over 50 of them and haven't had a single one shatter.
Steve[/QUOTE]

What do you use to "trim the over hang off"? A box cutter?

[QUOTE=uncuthockey;15782972]What do you use to "trim the over hang off"? A box cutter?[/QUOTE]
Only if you want to take off your fingertips at the same time.
I use a pair of side cutters to snip as necessary.

Best I could think is Scammers make a good enough fake case to dupe amateurs, use a real PSA token

Put a 9 that looks like a believable 10 in, profit like below.

Giannis 10 RC - $2000
Giannis 9 RC - $800

or whatever they're at now

Profit and resub the ten.

Saw Tiktok video where it was a problem with BGS Slabs to on a Lebron RC. one was fake and one was legit and you couldnt tell them apart. Both had matching serial numbers also. got the video on my phone.

But its not always used to commit fraud, but if you in the Pokemon grading for PSA, theirs a guy on ebay named Smpratte that has had fake slabs for years including having them posted on Ebay for like $500,000 or 1 million. While I dont know if hes ever sold fake slabs, the amount of media attention and traffic to his ebay store over the years seems to make up for not having to try and sell fake slabs and risk the feds knocking on your door.

smpratte has also been in the middle of numerous issues like this [url]https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/07/09/reward-offered-for-60000-pokemon-card-lost-in-the-mail[/url] Which potentially could be an insurance fraud scam.

I believe someone offered insane money for his other PSA Slabs and he refused, and for good reason.

But thats not to say everyone will be like him, many fake slabs are out there assuming PSA didnt grade a fake card, which they have been known to do or other issues that has raised an eye like PWCC and Probstein auctions/slabs.

[QUOTE=Bassplayah101;14315815]Naa.. its easier and quicker than that.
Theyre not running out to a BestBuy and purchasing a scanner.
They are almost certainly using a high end professional scanner with a oversized screen, and automated features so they can scan 9-12 slabs at a time, and the images are then seperated by themselves and the cert number appended to the file name. After that, the placement into a folder structure (a web servers back end is just a file/folder structure) for display being the last part, and is almost certainly automated by a script or routine.

They will hire one-three professionals that will be part of the marketing/design team, and will work hand in hand with quality assurance and the web team that manages the site.
Lastly, a license for sql server on their web server for the image database.

200-270k annual cost for technology, licensing, support and employee resources.
They make that in a week.[/QUOTE]


Your right on imo,SGC scans every card,If SGC can do it PSA can also.The reverse is also true,if PSA can can make a great registry so can SGC.If it adds a few days to turn around does it really matter at this point,Both PSA/SGC are over a 100 days anyway whats 2-3 more days.

[QUOTE=Gary;16648794]Your right on imo,SGC scans every card,If SGC can do it PSA can also.The reverse is also true,if PSA can can make a great registry so can SGC.If it adds a few days to turn around does it really matter at this point,Both PSA/SGC are over a 100 days anyway whats 2-3 more days.[/QUOTE]

PSA scans all express order and above cards and its currently in place. ive had my cards pop up when I run their certs. they even stated on the CU forums which scanner they use. I believe they hope to implement it for all service levels eventually.

Not that the PSA images were needed (really useful, when available) but here's an example of a current counterfeit PSA slab/label in circulation.
Unless you read Japanese, you'll likely need to utilize the translation feature but here's one of recent examples outed in Japan. [url]https://twitter.com/signcowhans/status/1666291339720556544?s=20[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx_bJbZakAAHMvq?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

PSA Image - [url]https://www.psacard.com/cert/75654108[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx_f2ixaEAEAmEV?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

all PSA has to do is make their labels into stickers that stick onto the inside of the slab and if tried to remove will tear apart like a CA vehicle registration sticker.

You're welcome PSA, you now owe me a million dollars for providing you with the solution.

send the funds to: DM me :D

[QUOTE=salsdali;18894371]all PSA has to do is make their labels into stickers that stick onto the inside of the slab and if tried to remove will tear apart like a CA vehicle registration sticker.

You're welcome PSA, you now owe me a million dollars for providing you with the solution.

send the funds to: DM me :D[/QUOTE]

What about ^ fake labels?

[QUOTE=auburn35;18893204]Not that the PSA images were needed (really useful, when available) but here's an example of a current counterfeit PSA slab/label in circulation.
Unless you read Japanese, you'll likely need to utilize the translation feature but here's one of recent examples outed in Japan. [url]https://twitter.com/signcowhans/status/1666291339720556544?s=20[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx_bJbZakAAHMvq?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

PSA Image - [url]https://www.psacard.com/cert/75654108[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx_f2ixaEAEAmEV?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Without looking at anything other than the top label, it's clearly a fake since it's the wrong font. The font on the fake label is not as wide as a genuine PSA label. The bar code is also much taller on the fake one.

Look at the bottom right serif "tail" on the "G" in GEM MINT on the fake.
The "O" is also a uniformed with on the fakes, where as the genuine font has thinner weights to the top/bottom of the letter "O".

For the record, I'm a font nerd. :)

Anyone who sees a Brandon DePorte online, ALL of the slabs, cards and 1 of 1’s are faked cards, and the PSA slabs and numbers are all fake. I don’t think there’s a way to turn them in to PSA but someone should.

[QUOTE=Native Trades;19096456]Anyone who sees a Brandon DePorte online, ALL of the slabs, cards and 1 of 1’s are faked cards, and the PSA slabs and numbers are all fake. I don’t think there’s a way to turn them in to PSA but someone should.[/QUOTE]

Please email all details to [email]brand-protection@collectors.com[/email]