Michael Porter Jr: Overrated, Underrated, or Just Right
 

Michael Porter Jr is an interesting player. There's not one player that you can 100% compare him to in the NBA. A lot of people who don't really watch him play regularly compare him to Durant because of the similar build and by watching highlights where his handle looks somewhat decent.

If you watch him you can see has a lot of Klay Thompson in his game, but has more of a knack for scoring and has the advantage to shoot over defenders. Although, I must say one of the things that makes Klay Thompson such a great volume shooter is his lightning quick release. Porter's release is slower since he has a dip in his shot. One aspect of his game that goes unnoticed is his finishing at the rim. Porter Jr. He's 4th in the league in FG% (among players who played at least 1000 minutes) within 0-3 feet at 81.6%. Given that he is extremely efficient from really all areas of the court, you would want him to get as much shots as possible. The problem with MPJ is that, are this point of his career, he can't really create quality shots for himself. Whenever he touches the ball and can't immediately shoot, he scans the floor looking to pass even if he still has his dribble. It's pretty frustrating to watch sometimes. He has a couple of moves in his bag that he pulls out on occasion but they all seem planned out and easy to read.

One thing I will say about Porter though, is there is probably only 10-20 players in the league right now that could score 20 easier than him. Even without his ability to create his own shot, he can score 20 points in his sleep. It seems like on his worst nights he still somehow shoots 50% from the field. Defensively, he's getting there. You can tell he knows his rotations a lot better than last year and the start of the season. He's not the best on ball defender, but his length does help him be a serviceable help defender.

[B]Verdict[/B]
I would say he is slightly underrated. He's a big reason why the Nuggets have been playing so well. He's such three level scoring threat that moves great without the ball and has really improved on defense. He does need to take initiative and look for more on ball scoring opportunities but I think that will come. You can tell he does not want to make mistakes since he is on a very good team and he can just give the ball to Jokic, so he avoids these situations. He needs to learn that making mistakes is a part of learning and Mike Malone needs to give him the freedom to make mistakes. It will only help them in the long run.

[B]Future Projections[/B]
The ceiling for MPJ is through the roof, it all just depends if he can develop his playmaking. We've seen superstars like Kawhi, Jaylen Brown, Jimmy Butler improve this aspect of their game. If MPJ can improve his handle like these players have there's no doubt in my mind he can be a 30 ppg scorer and possibly an MVP candidate. He's shown he's comfortable taking just about any shot, pull ups, step backs, floaters, fading 3's, etc. off catch and shoot opportunities or one or two dribble moves, he just needs a handle to allow him to read the defense and create quality shots for himself consistently. If he doesn't improve his playmaking, I still think he is a 22-24 ppg explosive off ball scorer similar to Klay Thompson and a multiple time all star. As for next season, I think he has a legit chance to be in the all star conversation. With Denver's system I could see Jokic and MPJ carry the Nuggets to a 6-4 seed come all star break with Porter averaging something like 21.8, 9.1, and 1.2.

What you you guys think about MPJ?

Never expected someone to say MPJ had a better knack for scoring than Klay. You can count on one hand dudes who can single handedly win a game. Klay is one of them, MPJ isn't.

MPJ is a good player but wildly overrated by hobby guys. Once I get my coffee I’ll come back to write a more detailed post on him as a player.

I see absolutely no Klay Thompson in MPJ so I don’t understand that comp at all

No way, overhyped for sure, Michael Beasley like or 100s of other names I could list that have had solid NBA careers, he should have that.

He benefits a great deal from playing w Jokic. Shouldn’t be held against him....Jokic is just that good.

Just right as no one really knows....he may develop into a great player or he could just be another average player that we've forgotten about. Everyone acts like they know but we all have no idea if his work ethic will continue to be strong, he'll have the right coaching staff to help develop him or if he'll play in the right system that benefits his play style.

I have no idea who he is but I have a purple Prizm of his so I guess I'm a fan. Haha. But I doubt he's Klay. Klay is spesheel, for real.

Bottom line is that MPJ lacks the skills that could elevate him to superstar status.

The major one being: Shot Creation. Every NBA superstar has the ability to create their own shot. MPJ relies almost entirely on being setup, mostly by Jokic. 81% of his cuts are screen cuts vs flash cuts and almost 80% of all of his shots are off screens.

MPJ doesn't have the ball handling skill to create in ISO situations. His ISO eFG% is 35.5%, among the worst in the entire NBA. He's a great shooter in C&S situations but his pull up 3pt% is another indication of his lack of creation ability. He has no ability to breakdown a defender off the dribble and relies on screens to get looks.

Another issue is that he totally lacks any playmaking ability. Even though he's above average for scoring gravity he can't/doesn't turn that into quality looks for his teammates. His overall shot quality is bad but he has a knack for making tough shots.

He's a fine rebounder and serviceable defensively if you can hide him on a slower big. He doesn't have the footspeed or lateral quickness to stay with quicker wings/forwards which will ultimately hurt him because in the playoffs teams are going to hunt him defensively.

Overall, he's a fairly one dimensional player. Great shooter who relies on teammates to get open looks. He's certainly a good player and valuable to a team. He can be a 20ppg scorer who gets 8-9 rebounds a game but without the ability to create a shot his upside is limited.

I just can't see how he ever develops ball handling or playmaking being on a team with 2 heavy usage guys in Jokic/Murray. He simply won't have the opportunity to develop those skills and if you don't within your 1st couple years in the league you probably never will.

It's not to say if given the chance he couldn't become an average ball handler or playmaker but he definitely won't in Denver.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17244842]Bottom line is that MPJ lacks the skills that could elevate him to superstar status.

The major one being: Shot Creation. Every NBA superstar has the ability to create their own shot. MPJ relies almost entirely on being setup, mostly by Jokic. 81% of his cuts are screen cuts vs flash cuts and almost 80% of all of his shots are off screens.

MPJ doesn't have the ball handling skill to create in ISO situations. His ISO eFG% is 35.5%, among the worst in the entire NBA. He's a great shooter in C&S situations but his pull up 3pt% is another indication of his lack of creation ability. He has no ability to breakdown a defender off the dribble and relies on screens to get looks.

Another issue is that he totally lacks any playmaking ability. Even though he's above average for scoring gravity he can't/doesn't turn that into quality looks for his teammates. His overall shot quality is bad but he has a knack for making tough shots.

He's a fine rebounder and serviceable defensively if you can hide him on a slower big. He doesn't have the footspeed or lateral quickness to stay with quicker wings/forwards which will ultimately hurt him because in the playoffs teams are going to hunt him defensively.

Overall, he's a fairly one dimensional player. Great shooter who relies on teammates to get open looks. He's certainly a good player and valuable to a team. He can be a 20ppg scorer who gets 8-9 rebounds a game but without the ability to create a shot his upside is limited.[/QUOTE]

If only ben Simmons can shoot like mpj.

[QUOTE=Sjpwa;17244954]If only ben Simmons can shoot like mpj.[/QUOTE]

If Ben Simmons could shoot like MPJ he'd be arguably the best player in the NBA

I really like MPJ myself. He was considered a potential #1 overall pick before is back injury in college. That injury has set him back a few years but he is finally starting to look like the guy that could have been the #1 pick in the draft. His maturity left a little to be desired last year but at the same time I love the fire in him and confidence he has in himself. Playing for a good team like Denver that already has a very strong #1 & #2 options limited his growth a bit early on, especially working back from the injury but the second half of the year last year you could really see him starting to come into shape. This year cracking the starting lineup I have seen a lot of growth in his game and his maturity. I was a bit worried when they made the trade for Gordon that it may cut into his PT but that hasn't been the case. Now with Murray going down for the season he is the unquestioned #2 option on the team and has really stepped up to the plate. I think the sky is the limit for him but he definitely needs to improve his ball handling and the ability to create and score on his own but I think that will come with the increased PT and elevated role within the offense. He is still very young at only 22 so the future is bright. IMO

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17245017]If Ben Simmons could shoot like MPJ he'd be arguably the best player in the NBA[/QUOTE]

If he could even shoot period he would be good....

These blowout analysts crack me up lol....

[QUOTE=Dnic;17245649]If he could even shoot period he would be good....[/QUOTE]

I mean, he's a 3 time all star by the age of 24. I think' the qualifies as 'good'.

[QUOTE=tjforce;17245676]I mean, he's a 3 time all star by the age of 24. I think' the qualifies as 'good'.[/QUOTE]

I guess "good", you would be correct although defense in MPJs case can be worked on Simmons will probably never be a great shooter so as far as ceiling I would take MPJ > Ben Kardashian lol

[QUOTE=Dnic;17245655]These blowout analysts crack me up lol....[/QUOTE]

Especially when they talk in absolutes

[QUOTE=Dnic;17245655]These blowout analysts crack me up lol....[/QUOTE]

Even more amusing are the investorboi boxscore watchers who criticize other peoples analysis while never having done any of their own :coffee:

Plus if you think MPJ is better / more valuable than Ben Simmons you've clearly never watched either of them play

Isn't there a Michael Porter Jr. thread? Can't this discussion go in there?

[QUOTE=Dnic;17245655]These blowout analysts crack me up lol....[/QUOTE]

Care to share your analysis? I’ll take the opinions of a few posters here over any “professional” analysis. Might try and actually read what some of them say and not disregard it because it was written on a forum. You might surprise yourself and actually come away with some knowledge.

In my evaluation, KPJ > MPJ

[QUOTE=phdbeckett;17245824]In my evaluation, KPJ > MPJ[/QUOTE]

End thread :cry:

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17245770]Plus if you think MPJ is better / more valuable than Ben Simmons you've clearly never watched either of them play[/QUOTE]

3 All stars by age 24. Will never be a top level super star the likes of LeBron, KD, etc, but it's reasonable to believe he projects into being a 8-10 time all-star.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17245754]Even more amusing are the investorboi boxscore watchers who criticize other peoples analysis while never having done any of their own :coffee:[/QUOTE]

This take coming from you is even more hilarious I watch just about every Mavs and Nuggets games and other games as well, you yourself have already been caught comparing box scores and stats and never even watched the games you are trying to analyze 🤦😂😂😂

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17244842]Bottom line is that MPJ lacks the skills that could elevate him to superstar status.

The major one being: Shot Creation. Every NBA superstar has the ability to create their own shot. MPJ relies almost entirely on being setup, mostly by Jokic. 81% of his cuts are screen cuts vs flash cuts and almost 80% of all of his shots are off screens.

MPJ doesn't have the ball handling skill to create in ISO situations. His ISO eFG% is 35.5%, among the worst in the entire NBA. He's a great shooter in C&S situations but his pull up 3pt% is another indication of his lack of creation ability. He has no ability to breakdown a defender off the dribble and relies on screens to get looks.

Another issue is that he totally lacks any playmaking ability. Even though he's above average for scoring gravity he can't/doesn't turn that into quality looks for his teammates. His overall shot quality is bad but he has a knack for making tough shots.

He's a fine rebounder and serviceable defensively if you can hide him on a slower big. He doesn't have the footspeed or lateral quickness to stay with quicker wings/forwards which will ultimately hurt him because in the playoffs teams are going to hunt him defensively.

Overall, he's a fairly one dimensional player. Great shooter who relies on teammates to get open looks. He's certainly a good player and valuable to a team. He can be a 20ppg scorer who gets 8-9 rebounds a game but without the ability to create a shot his upside is limited.[/QUOTE]

That's fair. I do feel like his biggest weakness is one that can be developed though. I think there is still hope for him to improve his playmaking. Julius Randle has improved so much in his 7th year. It all depends on if MPJ want to improve by being willing to make in game mistakes and Malone allowing him to experiment and get out of his comfort zone on offense. I think the last 15 games as well as the playoffs will show us a lot.

[QUOTE=Dnic;17245940]This take coming from you is even more hilarious I watch just about every Mavs and Nuggets games and other games as well, you yourself have already been caught comparing box scores and stats and never even watched the games you are trying to analyze 🤦😂😂😂[/QUOTE]

So then since you watch every game all the time it should be easy for you to come up with some analysis that's supported by data, right?

I'll be eagerly waiting your insightful analysis :coffee:

[QUOTE=GiannisforMVP34;17246020]That's fair. I do feel like his biggest weakness is one that can be developed though. I think there is still hope for him to improve his playmaking. Julius Randle has improved so much in his 7th year. It all depends on if MPJ want to improve by being willing to make in game mistakes and Malone allowing him to experiment and get out of his comfort zone on offense. I think the last 15 games as well as the playoffs will show us a lot.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I don't think it's impossible to improve but it is as long as he's behind Jokic.

I don't think he will maximize his potential on Denver

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17244741]MPJ is a good player but wildly overrated by hobby guys.[/QUOTE]

This ^

I still like the guy and think he works really well on the team. I like his scoring ability and he works well next to Jokic. His defense and general playmaking still isn't that great IMHO, but has certainly gotten better. He's one of these guys that will flourish next to the right PG, or center in this case.. :D

Regarding card prices.. Well, that's certainly another subject but I think there's a lot of guys heavily invested in him right now and i'm not one of them, like, at all.. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, I could be way wrong at the end of the day, but I just don't see him as ever being a top 10 player in the league yet that's the kind of prices people are paying for him right now. But again, we could say that about a lot of current players and crazy prices being throw around right now.

Taking a purely short term view - Denver should advance to the second round of the playoffs this season (and perhaps even deeper). Undoubtedly, with Murray out, MPJ becomes the #2 option and needs to put up 20+ ppg on increased utilization. So he will get more shots on National TV. That means, there is hobby potential for a short term run up (putting aside the overall market backdrop). MPJ has a true moment of opportunity.

Longer term - Nope. He’s a very talented player, but with the league as deep as it is today, the odds he makes the all star game next year are very slim. And they don’t really go up thereafter given some very high quality young players (and current college / Euro players entering the league) who are also contending for seats, as some of the veterans age out. I also agree with the comment made that being a third option on Denver when Murray comes back places a hard ceiling. So it’s an uphill battle for him. Would need a few new tools and a new setting to take the next big step.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17246034]So then since you watch every game all the time it should be easy for you to come up with some analysis that's supported by data, right?

I'll be eagerly waiting your insightful analysis :coffee:[/QUOTE]

I am also excited to read

[QUOTE=clocsta2323;17244740]Never expected someone to say MPJ had a better knack for scoring than Klay. You can count on one hand dudes who can single handedly win a game. Klay is one of them, MPJ isn't.[/QUOTE]

I probably should have used a better word, Klay's a great scorer. One of the most explosive in league history. MPJ I feel has better scoring instincts. He's got a scorers mentality and always looks for opportunities to shoot whenever and wherever he can. He's more of a natural scorer than Thompson. I do agree "game 6 Thompson" has shown the ability to carry his team on his back in crucial games. There's no doubt Thompson is the better player than Porter right now, I'm mainly talking about his game and what he project to be.

[QUOTE=GiannisforMVP34;17246092]I probably should have used a better word, Klay's a great scorer. One of the most explosive in league history. MPJ I feel has better scoring instincts. He's got a scorers mentality and always looks for opportunities to score. He's more of a natural scorer than Thompson. I do agree "game 6 Thompson" has shown the ability to carry his team on his back in crucial games. There's no doubt Thompson is the better player than Porter right now, I'm mainly talking about his game and what he project to be.[/QUOTE]

I 100% agree that MPJ is a scorer by nature. His current skillset is best maximized by a ball dominant guard. Or Jokic obviously because he gets a lot of great looks.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17246034]So then since you watch every game all the time it should be easy for you to come up with some analysis that's supported by data, right?

I'll be eagerly waiting your insightful analysis :coffee:[/QUOTE]

Again I'm not a "analyst" and not interested in trying to portray one either, as far as hobby investments or "investerbois" as you call us I'm pretty sure I'm doing fine in that department....:coffee:

[QUOTE=asujbl;17246069]I am also excited to read[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry to let you down, much like the Cavs......

[QUOTE=Dnic;17246121]I'm sorry to let you down, much like the Cavs......[/QUOTE]

Cavs suck. Everyone on the planet knows they suck... and were going to suck...

So this is kind of a weird reply

Unless you suck?

Got it

[QUOTE=Dnic;17246114]Again I'm not a "analyst" and not interested in trying to portray one either, as far as hobby investments or "investerbois" as you call us I'm pretty sure I'm doing fine in that department....:coffee:[/QUOTE]

So then why criticize mine that was supported by real data and wasn't even a crazy hot take if you don't have any of your own?

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17246133]So then why criticize mine that was supported by real data and wasn't even a crazy hot take if you don't have any of your own?[/QUOTE]

He doesn’t have time for that. He’s doing quite well.

[QUOTE=asujbl;17246127]Cavs suck. Everyone on the planet knows they suck... and were going to suck...

So this is kind of a weird reply

Unless you suck?

Got it[/QUOTE]

Oh he got you man, he said the Cavs suck! Big burn

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17246149]Oh he got you man, he said the Cavs suck! Big burn[/QUOTE]

Selling all my Garland right now

[QUOTE=asujbl;17246154]Selling all my Garland right now[/QUOTE]

Don't stop there. Sell your house before he tells you Ohio sucks.

[QUOTE=ballhawkdawk;17246162]Don't stop there. Sell your house before he tells you Ohio sucks.[/QUOTE]

Nope. Cleveland Browns Super Bowl.

[QUOTE=asujbl;17246166]Nope. Cleveland Browns Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]

Super Bowl Super Browns?

[QUOTE=Dnic;17245940]This take coming from you is even more hilarious I watch just about every Mavs and Nuggets games and other games as well, you yourself have already been caught comparing box scores and stats and never even watched the games you are trying to analyze 🤦😂😂😂[/QUOTE]

I don’t even care about this thread. I have one MPJ card

But this is such a ridiculous post if A) the other poster had analysis and B) you claim to watch every game but have no analysis to contradict him

For all I know JC is wrong and you are right... but that’s too much work apparently.

[QUOTE=phdbeckett;17245824]In my evaluation, KPJ > MPJ[/QUOTE]

Yes! :p

This thread is going to be fun in 5 years. Reminds me of a thread that was made long ago on a certain player of Greek origin...

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17244842]Bottom line is that MPJ lacks the skills that could elevate him to superstar status.
[/QUOTE]

I like your analysis but the first line goes back to my absolutes statement......no body really knows what skills he can or can't develop.

[QUOTE=pejc300;17246428]This thread is going to be fun in 5 years. Reminds me of a thread that was made long ago on a certain player of Greek origin...[/QUOTE]

Very true. Go into any old thread and you'll see people being completely wrong about a prospect in either direction.

It's fun to talk about someone's skills, their future potential and where you think they'll end up but it seems foolish to say "THIS PLAYER WON'T BE XYZ!"

Did you really just say MPJ has a better knack for scoring that Klay Thompson? I had to stop right there, I’m usually not snarky or rude on this forum but that immediately made me realize anything you say has no bearing on reality. Klay dropped 36 in one quarter, think about that for 30 seconds... and then think about the statement you made about MPJ having more of a knack for scoring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=pejc300;17246428]This thread is going to be fun in 5 years. Reminds me of a thread that was made long ago on a certain player of Greek origin...[/QUOTE]

wooo, this gave me chills. I PC'ed Giannis in 2013, I love these generally low risk, high reward type players. I've invested about 4K into Porter Jr. hopefully, he can reach his potential in Denver.

[QUOTE=NorCalCards;17246484]Did you really just say MPJ has a better knack for scoring that Klay Thompson? I had to stop right there, I’m usually not snarky or rude on this forum but that immediately made me realize anything you say has no bearing on reality. Klay dropped 36 in one quarter, think about that for 30 seconds... and then think about the statement you made about MPJ having more of a knack for scoring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I already addressed I could have used better wording, read post #32

[QUOTE=GiannisforMVP34;17246493]wooo, this gave me chills. I PC'ed Giannis in 2013, I love these generally low risk, high reward type players. I've invested about 4K into Porter Jr. hopefully, he can reach his potential in Denver.[/QUOTE]

How is MPJ low risk?

He wasn't anything like Giannis coming out

He's been expensive since the get

[QUOTE=GiannisforMVP34;17246504]I already addressed I could have used better wording, read post #32[/QUOTE]

Your retraction was equally offensive to Klay as your initial claim. lillard and Curry are the only two I can think of the top of my head who can change a game in a couple minutes. And Klay plays all world D.

The second Klay went into the locker-room that series was a wrap.

[QUOTE=omega145;17246475]I like your analysis but the first line goes back to my absolutes statement......no body really knows what skills he can or can't develop.



Very true. Go into any old thread and you'll see people being completely wrong about a prospect in either direction.

It's fun to talk about someone's skills, their future potential and where you think they'll end up but it seems foolish to say "THIS PLAYER WON'T BE XYZ!"[/QUOTE]

Gotcha. I meant now, in the context of his current team. It’s not crazy to believe he could develop if moved to another team where he could run the show but that’s a long way off.

[QUOTE=asujbl;17246574]How is MPJ low risk?

He wasn't anything like Giannis coming out

He's been expensive since the get[/QUOTE]

The market went up, back in 2013-14 a Giannis rookie auto was $20 and a Kobe auto was around $150. In today's market a Giannis rookie auto would probably be $100-200 during his sophomore season. MPJ isn't really a low risk but imo for his talent, he is a little under priced, if he reaches his potential his cards can literally go up 15x in price. These are the kinds of investments I get really excited about.

[QUOTE=GiannisforMVP34;17246866]The market went up, back in 2013-14 a Giannis rookie auto was $20 and a Kobe auto was around $150. In today's market a Giannis rookie auto would probably be $100-200 during his sophomore season. MPJ isn't really a low risk but imo for his talent, he is a little under priced, if he reaches his potential his cards can literally go up 15x in price. These are the kinds of investments I get really excited about.[/QUOTE]

I know

You’re proving my point

Giannis started off dirt cheap.

MPJ didn’t

They aren’t comparable

[QUOTE=asujbl;17247021]I know

You’re proving my point

Giannis started off dirt cheap.

MPJ didn’t

They aren’t comparable[/QUOTE]

I mean I bought some of my MPJ prizm rookies at $20 and some rookie autos in the price range of $30-50, that not too much of a risk considering they could be $1000 each one day

[QUOTE=clocsta2323;17246629]Your retraction was equally offensive to Klay as your initial claim. lillard and Curry are the only two I can think of the top of my head who can change a game in a couple minutes. And Klay plays all world D.

The second Klay went into the locker-room that series was a wrap.[/QUOTE]

I'm not taking anything away from Klay, he's a future HOF and imo the 2nd greatest shooter of all time. Neither am I saying he is a better player than Klay, especially not on defense. I'm just saying if I had to give a player comp to MPJ right now, it would be Klay Thompson. He is a little more versatile on offense and is more of a natural scorer than him. I believe he averaged like 40 something points in a high school tourney where he won the state championship, and like 36 points for his senior season. If MPJ reaches his potential he could average 30-35 ppg in the NBA, the same cannot be said for Klay, but I'm not taking anything away from him. He's still an all time great.

umm i dont know man. MPJ was way cheap when he started. I bought the prizm for like $2.50-3.50 each

I don't know the future. But Michael Porter Jr. is one of the young guys I think can develop into a superstar. He'll need to improve his game and confidence. But I think it's possible for him. The criticism of him relying on others and not doing enough to create his own shots, that is valid. I saw a YouTube video of a game of his just a couple of weeks ago. He had 27 points. And 9 dribbles. That means his team mates are finding him in perfect positions. He's a good finisher and shooter, but only 9 dribbles, that's crazy. And he only had a couple of assists. The positive is it also means he knows how to move without the ball and find the good spots on the floor.

As far as his prices, I've only been loosely following him for a year or so. His cards are definitely down from their highs last year. I think that reflects the general concern over his game not having a good "create your own shot" component. But I think it's something he can develop, for sure. He's got good moves from what I can tell. Just needs to practice and build confidence. All great players develop their game. I'm betting MPJ can do that as well.

I don't think the Nuggets are a bad fit for him. Winning team. Good chemistry. And with Murray out for the next, what, year? MPJ is going to get his chances. Stay healthy and play wealthy.

A less offensively dynamic, rich man's Khris Middleton with slightly better defensive upside, imo.

[QUOTE=ninjacookies;17247403]A less offensively dynamic, rich man's Khris Middleton with slightly better defensive upside, imo.[/QUOTE]



i just want to see him be aggressive for 3 straight games. sans murray, there is no reason he cannot feast. aaron gordon is just a pawn out there-disappointing, fer sure.

I was into MJP last year but now that Poku has arrived, MPJ is yesterday's news

Guy’s an idiot. Great scorer but he makes so many dumb mistakes it’s surprising. He benefits greatly from being on the floor with Jokic.

[QUOTE=armoursave;17247924]Guy’s an idiot. Great scorer but he makes so many dumb mistakes it’s surprising. He benefits greatly from being on the floor with Jokic.[/QUOTE]

I think this is why Denver is reluctant to trust him more with running the offense, regardless whether Murray or Jokic are on the floor. I didn't follow him much in college, but he also averaged less than a third of an assist per game.

[QUOTE=GiannisforMVP34;17246493][B]I've invested about 4K into Porter Jr. [/B]hopefully, he can reach his potential in Denver.[/QUOTE]

"Investing" 4K into a guy like MPJ? Seems a bit risky to me but i've been wrong before. Seems like there's a lot safer bets than that.

[QUOTE=armoursave;17247924][B]Guy’s an idiot. [/B] Great scorer but he makes so many dumb mistakes it’s surprising. He benefits greatly from being on the floor with Jokic.[/QUOTE]

Yikes, he's a hundred games into his NBA career. A bit much to call him an idiot, no? He's averaging 1 turnover a game and has a 2PT FG% of 63% and 3PT% of 43%......wouldn't someone who's so prone to mistakes have more turnovers and shoot much worse? I'd say that's pretty impressive for someone who hasn't even had a full 82 game season yet. Anyone benefits from being on the floor with a guy like Jokic and credit to MPJ for taking advantage of that.

Klay is overrated. He doesn't even have 12k points and he's 31.

For all his scoring prowess he's barely averaged 20 a game. In today's nba thats like top 30...

If he didn't play for warriors he wouldn't sniff the hof.
Hes still not hof material imo

[QUOTE=k13;17248792]Klay is overrated. He doesn't even have 12k points and he's 31.

For all his scoring prowess he's barely averaged 20 a game. In today's nba thats like top 30...

If he didn't play for warriors he wouldn't sniff the hof.
Hes still not hof material imo[/QUOTE]

I'd agree slightly but championships tend to skew the view on certain players. Would anyone ever talk about Derek Fisher or Robert Horry if they weren't apart of championship teams? Move Klay to another team without another scorer like Curry and don't you think his PPG and overall point total would've been much higher? He's also a very good defender so not only can he get hot and is a lethal 3 point shooter but plays better defense than most players in the NBA. I think the MPJ/Klay comparison is actually pretty spot on when you look at both players at around the same age.

2nd best player on one of the greatest teams and dynasties ever, arguably the 2nd-5th best shooter of all time, various 3pt and scoring records.

Klay has legacy which is just as, if not more important than raw stats.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17246790]Gotcha. I meant now, in the context of his current team. It’s not crazy to believe he could develop if moved to another team where he could run the show but that’s a long way off.[/QUOTE]

As someone who watches nearly ever nuggets game, and doesn’t just claim to, this couldn’t be more wrong. Yes Murray and obviously Jokic are better players than mpj right now. But they are the complete opposite of selfish players. Jokic would be fine getting 10 ppg, 15 assists and 10 boards if it means a nuggets win. He is literally the definition of always looking for his teammates to get a bucket.

Murray is great but only ball hogs when he’s having one of those nights. He looks to defer to Jokic who looks to defer to everyone else. So it’s not like mpj doesn’t have every opportunity to grow in Denver as long as coach malone keeps playing him.

He played 2.5 games in college. Missed a year in nba. Only played 16 mpg last year. And is finally getting close to regular minutes at 30 mpg this year. I’m not saying he will be a superstar but if he stays healthy he has a very high ceiling and Murray and Jokic will do the opposite of limit that.

[QUOTE=alias21;17249131]As someone who watches nearly ever nuggets game, and doesn’t just claim to, this couldn’t be more wrong. Yes Murray and obviously Jokic are better players than mpj right now. But they are the complete opposite of selfish players. Jokic would be fine getting 10 ppg, 15 assists and 10 boards if it means a nuggets win. He is literally the definition of always looking for his teammates to get a bucket.

Murray is great but only ball hogs when he’s having one of those nights. He looks to defer to Jokic who looks to defer to everyone else. So it’s not like mpj doesn’t have every opportunity to grow in Denver as long as coach malone keeps playing him.

He played 2.5 games in college. Missed a year in nba. Only played 16 mpg last year. And is finally getting close to regular minutes at 30 mpg this year. I’m not saying he will be a superstar but if he stays healthy he has a very high ceiling and Murray and Jokic will do the opposite of limit that.[/QUOTE]

Save your time that guy doesn't watch Nuggets games and only looks at box scores and stats. I can clearly see you do though great points, you get it :)!

[QUOTE=alias21;17249131]As someone who watches nearly ever nuggets game, and doesn’t just claim to, this couldn’t be more wrong. Yes Murray and obviously Jokic are better players than mpj right now. But they are the complete opposite of selfish players. Jokic would be fine getting 10 ppg, 15 assists and 10 boards if it means a nuggets win. He is literally the definition of always looking for his teammates to get a bucket.

Murray is great but only ball hogs when he’s having one of those nights. He looks to defer to Jokic who looks to defer to everyone else. So it’s not like mpj doesn’t have every opportunity to grow in Denver as long as coach malone keeps playing him.

He played 2.5 games in college. Missed a year in nba. Only played 16 mpg last year. And is finally getting close to regular minutes at 30 mpg this year. I’m not saying he will be a superstar but if he stays healthy he has a very high ceiling and Murray and Jokic will do the opposite of limit that.[/QUOTE]

How is a player going to develop ball handling and playmaking skills when he doesn't have an opportunity?

MPJ gets the 5th most touches on the team since the AG trade. Will Barton is touching the ball more than MPJ. I just don't understand how a player can develop when they're getting out touched by half the team?

[QUOTE=Dnic;17249194]Save your time that guy doesn't watch Nuggets games and only looks at box scores and stats. I can clearly see you do though great points, you get it :)![/QUOTE]

I've watched more NBA basketball in the last week than you've watched in your entire life :coffee:

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17249235]I've watched more NBA basketball in the last week than you've watched in your entire life :coffee:[/QUOTE]

Highly doubt that since box scores don't really count as "watching games", but ok if you say so....:coffee:

[QUOTE=Dnic;17249261]Highly doubt that since box scores don't really count as "watching games", but ok if you say so....:coffee:[/QUOTE]

It's easy to watch more than 0

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17249268]It's easy to watch more than 0[/QUOTE]

Is it really though? Cause I was thinking that's exactly the number of games you have watched :coffee: I mean you have already been caught talking about games like you watched them and self admitted you did not...lol