Goldin acquired by collectors universe
 

This is pretty huge and should take a chunk out of PWCC vault.

[url]https://twitter.com/goldinauctions/status/1410591353155854336?s=21[/url]


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Amazing news to move the hobby forward. Congrats to Nat and team!

To me for large cards it's the ideal situation, go directly from PSA to the vault - no extra hands involved


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Now PSA can send their trimmed cards directly to their own auction.

:)!

I understand the excitement here with this news, but is anyone concerned about the possible conflict of interest that the company most known for adding value to a raw card (PSA) now owns one of the auction houses most notable for aggressively marketing price increases?

[QUOTE=FinSoonerGMG;17462218]I understand the excitement here with this news, but is anyone concerned about the possible conflict of interest that the company most known for adding value to a raw card (PSA) now owns one of the auction houses most notable for aggressively marketing price increases?[/QUOTE]

I think many are saying it already with more coming

Nat loves the hobby they said, he'll never do anything shady they said. 🤣🤣🤣

[QUOTE=brothertona;17462139]This is pretty huge and should take a chunk out of PWCC vault.




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Can you elaborate? Does Goldin provide the same service as PWCC Vault?

[QUOTE=Archangel1775;17462279]Can you elaborate? Does Goldin provide the same service as PWCC Vault?[/QUOTE]


From the report it mentioned the potential to send a card to PSA and then hold it in a vault


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[QUOTE=Archangel1775;17462279]Can you elaborate? Does Goldin provide the same service as PWCC Vault?[/QUOTE]


The merger will allow for the businesses to start building out capabilities driven by data and by offering a full slate of services to collectors, such as vaulting items after they get graded by PSA or purchased through Goldin Auctions, as well as providing detailed pricing guides, according to Turner.


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Same day that Blackstone buy CCG.

I do not see how this is good for the hobby. One thing I have learned in 2020 is that too much power can be very bad.

I have faith in PSA but I do feel they are disconnecting from their customers because they are becoming too big.

I am an optimist but I have many doubts from this move.

Hopefully they have a plan in place, we will see.

Seems like a huge conflict of interest. Not sure how this is a good thing.

[QUOTE=heatdawg;17462374]I do not see how this is good for the hobby. One thing I have learned in 2020 is that too much power can be very bad.

I have faith in PSA but I do feel they are disconnecting from their customers because they are becoming too big.

I am an optimist but I have many doubts from this move.

Hopefully they have a plan in place, we will see.[/QUOTE]

well, your first mistake was having faith in PSA

It should bother everyone that has any orders open with PSA that PSA continues to focus on things other than fixing their grading mess.
Yes, it is a conflict of interest that Collector's Universe owns an auction house, just like it is a conflict of interest that Beckett owns one as well.

Ken cashing out?

I think a "Partnership" would have been fine. A grading company owning an auction house known for setting the market for products encased by that same grading company seems like a very slippery slope.

To me grading as a whole was a good evolution of the hobby in terms of what a card is evaluated at not necessarily "value" more condition. This move continues to push the value of the PSA slab versus the product inside of it and there has to be a lot of trust in the credibility especially when the market turns.

and the walls keep closing in

Whether or not this blows up, to me, appears to be how PSA graded stuff is viewed…if it seems grades are not deemed “right” then it is not good. If PSA is grading consistently, this could be great.

Vertical integration, now all they need to do is buy Panini and they'll have the maufacturer as well.

Per Ken, GA’s “policies concerning altered cards will NOT be changing”.

[QUOTE=FinSoonerGMG;17462424]I think a "Partnership" would have been fine. A grading company owning an auction house known for setting the market for products encased by that same grading company seems like a very slippery slope.

To me grading as a whole was a good evolution of the hobby in terms of what a card is evaluated at not necessarily "value" more condition. This move continues to push the value of the PSA slab versus the product inside of it and there has to be a lot of trust in the credibility especially when the market turns.[/QUOTE]

Sounds familiar. Beckett used to be the sole price price setter for years before eBay was a thing.

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;17462494]Per Ken, GA’s “policies concerning altered cards will NOT be changing”.[/QUOTE]

I'll believe it when I see it. PSA bans you if you question them. Doubt that is changing any time soon.

Ken saw the prices of his last round of auctions and was like got to sell before they retract their offer lol.

[QUOTE=Onepocketj;17462515]I'll believe it when I see it. PSA bans you if you question them. Doubt that is changing any time soon.[/QUOTE]

Just passing on what he told me. For the sake of collectors, I’m much more concerned about the potential SGC buyout and closure than this. It’s not like GA could be worse than Heritage or PWCC on this issue. From an altered cards standpoint, PSA might as well own PWCC already with the amount of ongoing racketeering between those two.

[QUOTE=Archangel1775;17462279]Can you elaborate? Does Goldin provide the same service as PWCC Vault?[/QUOTE]

Goldin Vault service is currently being offered to some Goldin members. I am sending the cards that I won in their June auction to their vault.

[QUOTE=FinSoonerGMG;17462218]I understand the excitement here with this news, but is anyone concerned about the possible conflict of interest that the company most known for adding value to a raw card (PSA) now owns one of the auction houses most notable for aggressively marketing price increases?[/QUOTE]

If sports card collecting was a regulated market, designed for formal 'investing' in an alternative asset class, then yup; it would be a huge conflict of interest. But in reality the sports cards 'market' is a cesspool of dubious business practices, fraud, fakes, pump & dump schemes and numerous other shenanigans. The more the $$$ amounts involved increase, the worse things are and will continue to get.

As a little fish collector of cheap & cheerful raw cards, this item of news is a 'whatever' for me. For those sharks playing in the high-end graded / PWCC / Golden auction waters then...good luck with that. :)!

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;17462494]Per Ken, GA’s “policies concerning altered cards will NOT be changing”.[/QUOTE]

I've heard this from plenty of other companies in the past.

Then soon after new leadership is in place, things surprisingly change!

312...appreciate you and the work BODA does. Do you think this will make it easier/more difficult/same to catch trimmers and the such?

Goldin has a Vault? Where? In Ken's office?

If GA's random videos of him walking around their offices is any indication of their organization - hard pass.

Next they will start a sports card fund that grades with PSA and sells on Goldin. The fund would have staff with a superior ability to select raw cards that would be graded PSA 10.

[QUOTE=pachyderm;17462629]Next they will start a sports card fund that grades with PSA and sells on Goldin. The fund would have staff with a superior ability to select raw cards that would be graded PSA 10.[/QUOTE]

I wonder if Eagle Eye Joe is looking for a job?

[QUOTE=2010GBPackers;17462608]Goldin has a Vault? Where? In Ken's office?

If GA's random videos of him walking around their offices is any indication of their organization - hard pass.[/QUOTE]

FWIW, it will be in Delaware, which has no sales tax.

This is fantastic!

I'm just going to leave this here....

Not telling people what to do or not do, but just remember who you are getting into bed with

[url]https://youtu.be/1VfXCKTaWlA[/url]

[QUOTE=I only pull for;17462402]It should bother everyone that has any orders open with PSA that PSA continues to focus on things other than fixing their grading mess.
Yes, it is a conflict of interest that Collector's Universe owns an auction house, just like it is a conflict of interest that Beckett owns one as well.[/QUOTE]
All of my personal orders in 2021 have moved quicker than anticipated. My Collectors' Club order returned to me in four months. Very happy!

[QUOTE=tjforce;17462693]I'm just going to leave this here....

Not telling people what to do or not do, but just remember who you are getting into bed with

[url]https://youtu.be/1VfXCKTaWlA[/url][/QUOTE]

I called that number in the video just now to see if they had any more of those Bonds lots.

It seems they are no longer at that number.

I don't know what to think. All I know is PSA is not grading cards pretty much at all anymore unless you want to spend $200. Which means people are not buying low end anymore. Which means people are not breaking to grade anymore. Which means people are leaving the hobby.

COMC - would love to hear more about this potential SGC buyout. Is this a thing?

Not being able to grade cards anymore is really cutting into the bottom line of a lot of people. To think that you used to be able to get a PSA card graded for $8 and now it costs $200. Insane.

The amount of collusion that is going to happen between PSA and Goldin is going to be insane.

[QUOTE=pejc300;17462772]I don't know what to think. All I know is PSA is not grading cards pretty much at all anymore unless you want to spend $200. Which means people are not buying low end anymore. Which means people are not breaking to grade anymore. Which means people are leaving the hobby.

COMC - would love to hear more about this potential SGC buyout. Is this a thing?

Not being able to grade cards anymore is really cutting into the bottom line of a lot of people. To think that you used to be able to get a PSA card graded for $8 and now it costs $200. Insane.

The amount of collusion that is going to happen between PSA and Goldin is going to be insane.[/QUOTE]

There is a place for everyone in the hobby but personally for the people leaving the hobby because they cant grade quickly and flip cards: Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

[QUOTE=pejc300;17462772]I don't know what to think. All I know is PSA is not grading cards pretty much at all anymore unless you want to spend $200. Which means people are not buying low end anymore. Which means people are not breaking to grade anymore. Which means people are leaving the hobby[/QUOTE]
Very hyperbolic. Plenty of us are still buying low end to either keep raw or grade in the future.

[QUOTE=KhalDrogo;17462805]Very hyperbolic. Plenty of us are still buying low end to either keep raw or grade in the future.[/QUOTE]

There is no grading in the future of low end.

[QUOTE=pejc300;17462816]There is no grading in the future of low end.[/QUOTE]
I look forward to the day you're wrong. Won't be that far in the future.

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;17462494]Per Ken, GA’s “policies concerning altered cards will NOT be changing”.[/QUOTE]

Got it, so they will keep selling them until you catch it...

[QUOTE=pejc300;17462816]There is no grading in the future of low end.[/QUOTE]

Is this why the "investors" are buying so many PSA 10 slabs of even semi good players where "the play" is to wait because PSA slabs will be the "gucci" slabs of the future

Hmm...I may have woken up on the cynical side of the bed today

[QUOTE=i4gotmyid;17462849]Got it, so they will keep selling them until you catch it...



Is this why the "investors" are buying so many PSA 10 slabs of even semi good players where "the play" is to wait because PSA slabs will be the "gucci" slabs of the future

Hmm...I may have woken up on the cynical side of the bed today[/QUOTE]

I actually think there is some truth to this.

Think about this people. PSA has been shut down and not accepting submissions for over 4 months. They are still WAY WAY behind. You think they're going to open up subs for $20 or $30 knowing that they will literally be inundated with another 10 million cards that people have been holding? I don't see how they can do it. And people are not going to pay $50 to pay to grade a lower end card, especially when PSA has become way way more strict on grades. Something has to give. I think it's the low end grading market. Some people say good riddance, but it has a domino effect.

[QUOTE=pcptrade;17462564]Goldin Vault service is currently being offered to some Goldin members. I am sending the cards that I won in their June auction to their vault.[/QUOTE]

Why though? What's the benefit?

What ever happened with the private equity group that invested in Goldin back in January? Just a quick flip for them?

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;17463003]Why though? What's the benefit?[/QUOTE]

Same benefit as PWCC Vault I guess. Makes it easy to flip.

Goldin only wants cards $10,000 or more in its vault.

And "we" call this still a hobby :doh:

[QUOTE=pejc300;17462885]Something has to give. I think it's the low end grading market. Some people say good riddance, but it has a domino effect.[/QUOTE]

I was buying slabbed vintage and nice raw vintage with the goal of grading the raw and keeping whatever came back in better grades than the slabs I already had, and selling the rest to fund the grading. I pretty much slammed the brakes on that in October (besides an ill-timed but fun diversion into Star cards this year). I mean, I don't move mountains but I spent tens of thousands there in half a year, and that money's now gone from the hobby. I am not even sure what I want to do anymore besides kick the tires on a few lowball auctions. I doubt I'm alone, judging by the drop in prices.

Sure, grading doesn't matter on five-figure cards, but for decent cards that are fifty to a hundred bucks graded, I don't see an end game or a point. Some would say that's the point, but us bottom feeders were spreading cash around. This move doesn't mean anything to me personally except reinforce the fact that grading is now a waste of my effort.

In a gold rush, the majority of the people who dig for gold walk away disappointed. It's the people selling the pickaxes and other supplies that make out like bandits.

[QUOTE=YouTheManNick;17463185]In a gold rush, the majority of the people who dig for gold walk away disappointed. It's the people selling the pickaxes and other supplies that make out like bandits.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like while investors were hoarding base cards, the winners should be those who hoard toploaders.

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;17463003]Why though? What's the benefit?[/QUOTE]

Same benefits as PWCC plus they are located 20 minutes from my home. No sales tax. Cards are insured. I can take offers or send them to their auctions. Don't have to worry about selling them myself and deal with scammers, returns etc.

[QUOTE=pejc300;17462885]I actually think there is some truth to this.

Think about this people. PSA has been shut down and not accepting submissions for over 4 months. They are still WAY WAY behind. You think they're going to open up subs for $20 or $30 knowing that they will literally be inundated with another 10 million cards that people have been holding? I don't see how they can do it. [B]And people are not going to pay $50 to pay to grade a lower end card[/B], especially when PSA has become way way more strict on grades. Something has to give. I think it's the low end grading market. Some people say good riddance, but it has a domino effect.[/QUOTE]

I've thought about this before. But they could. Right now the problem is there are too many available from people who only paid $8,10,20 dollars or whatever it was. They can undercut anyone who has to pay say $50 to have the same card graded. But that will eventually change once they've exchanged hands. Because now going forward it's an equal playing field nobody is getting them graded for that low price anymore. Technically you would just pass on the $50 grading fee to the buyer. So it doesn't really matter except up the front cost. No one will have cards from the 2021-22 class though for the old grading prices. So who knows? Could be dead, could start all over again with a new bottom baseline.

[QUOTE=pejc300;17462772]I don't know what to think. All I know is PSA is not grading cards pretty much at all anymore unless you want to spend $200. Which means people are not buying low end anymore. Which means people are not breaking to grade anymore. Which means people are leaving the hobby.

COMC - would love to hear more about this potential SGC buyout. Is this a thing?

Not being able to grade cards anymore is really cutting into the bottom line of a lot of people. To think that you used to be able to get a PSA card graded for $8 and now it costs $200. Insane.

The amount of collusion that is going to happen between PSA and Goldin is going to be insane.[/QUOTE]

What's been happening with PSA is what happens everywhere. Everything PSA is doing is to make more money for the rich and screw everyone else.

slippery slope, time will tell

[QUOTE=Kobefan;17463308]Sounds like while investors were hoarding base cards, the winners should be those who hoard toploaders.[/QUOTE]

I literally laughed out loud when I read this.

[QUOTE=Toolzs;17463119]And "we" call this still a hobby :doh:[/QUOTE]

There are still plenty of ways to enjoy the hobby.

[QUOTE=hauntedcomputer;17463155]I was buying slabbed vintage and nice raw vintage with the goal of grading the raw and keeping whatever came back in better grades than the slabs I already had, and selling the rest to fund the grading. I pretty much slammed the brakes on that in October (besides an ill-timed but fun diversion into Star cards this year). I mean, I don't move mountains but I spent tens of thousands there in half a year, and that money's now gone from the hobby. I am not even sure what I want to do anymore besides kick the tires on a few lowball auctions. I doubt I'm alone, judging by the drop in prices.

Sure, grading doesn't matter on five-figure cards, but for decent cards that are fifty to a hundred bucks graded, I don't see an end game or a point. Some would say that's the point, but us bottom feeders were spreading cash around. This move doesn't mean anything to me personally except reinforce the fact that grading is now a waste of my effort.[/QUOTE]

As someone with a half-decent low end collection, I think you spending "tens of thousands" would qualify as above "bottom feeder" status. That's a lot of money.

[QUOTE=Bob824;17463788]As someone with a half-decent low end collection, I think you spending "tens of thousands" would qualify as above "bottom feeder" status. That's a lot of money.[/QUOTE]

I think our daily bombardment by record sales and investboi card apps have skewed our perspectives a smidge.

[QUOTE=Bob824;17463788]As someone with a half-decent low end collection, I think you spending "tens of thousands" would qualify as above "bottom feeder" status. That's a lot of money.[/QUOTE]

Ha, exactly. Tens of thousands on grading fees alone? If that's bottom feeder status, there are several levels below that he's skipping.

everyone who has posted in this on pages 2 and 3 should self immolate. Ill start if it gets you idiots to join in.

[QUOTE=FinSoonerGMG;17462218]I understand the excitement here with this news, but is anyone concerned about the possible conflict of interest that the company most known for adding value to a raw card (PSA) now owns one of the auction houses most notable for aggressively marketing price increases?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.

It's a huge conflict of interest IMO. With the advancement of counterfeit PSA holders and now this, my belief in the long term investment potential of sportscards is starting to drop.